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32andBelow
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:43 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
kulwinder wrote:
I still think the theory about a battery fire in the forward cargo hold which destroyed the avionics bay below the cockpit the most plausible.

All things considered it is the most likely explanation.


A fire magically and instantly destroyed the avionics bay, then extinguished itself, leaving the crew dead after making multiple course changes without any communications, then the plane flew for hours. That’s the most likely in your mind?

And then the first installed similar flights on the captains home flight sim.
 
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dennypayne
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:44 pm

hinckley wrote:
I believe that Zaharie wanted to pull off an Amelia Earhart-like mystery; a spectacular modern unsolved event that will be talked about for decades to come. So he did everything he could to make the plane disappear without a trace. I have no idea why he wanted to do this. It may have been political. It may have been personal. As soon as one of us commits suicide, we'll have have a much better understanding of Zaharie's mind. I also think that the event exposed so much incompetence within the Malaysia's airspace monitoring services, that they obfuscated and covered-up many of the facts.

Of course, that's just my personal theory. And let's be adults. We all understand what a theory is.


Clearly "we" don't, because as rrlopes indicated, this is exactly an example of a hypothesis, not a theory. It is not, by any means, proven by observation and commonly accepted. (I happen to agree with you that this is the most likely hypothesis, but words do matter).
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DaveFly
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 3:50 pm

This was published last year in the Atlantic Monthly (apologies if someone already referenced it). Very compelling argument that it was suicide.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/590653/
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asdf
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:02 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
scntekir wrote:
Follow the money. HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING; if the pilot had a life insurance policy which would be voided in the event of a suicide, then is it not plausible he would go through great lengths to give the appearance of anything but a suicide? DISCLAIMER: Of course, I have no evidence to support this THEORY and it is nothing but a THEORY, but I'm a Occam's razor sort of guy.

There, I said it, please feel free to pile on!



I can't speak for policies in Asia, but in the USA, Life Insurance policies pay out even in the case of suicide if in force for at least 2 years.



there was no insurance policie ....
 
asdf
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:04 pm

32andBelow wrote:
....similar flights on the captains home flight sim....


where do you get those infos from?
i do not know any source ......

what is known and is proven is that he had a flight SIM at home
ok

so what?
 
asdf
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:07 pm

Continental767 wrote:
This thread will be closed soon, so I’ll just speculate a bit. I’ve always wondered about the theory of a remote hijacking using the aircraft’s computers. There’s no evidence of that of course, but parts of it make sense. The precise course changes, potentially incapacitated crew, etc. Just a thought.


what was the reason for it ....
who has an advantage?

the semiconductor soup is pretty thin ...
 
AWACSooner
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:13 pm

I'm just gonna jump in and post what actually happened before this thread gets locked for the sheer ridiculousness it is: my airplane hijacked MH370...that rotodome on top? Yah, we can hijack planes with it. ;)

Seems as realistic as some of these other "theories" I'm seeing.

Count me in on the "suicidal pilot" theory...same as MS990.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:44 pm

asdf wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
scntekir wrote:
Follow the money. HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING; if the pilot had a life insurance policy which would be voided in the event of a suicide, then is it not plausible he would go through great lengths to give the appearance of anything but a suicide? DISCLAIMER: Of course, I have no evidence to support this THEORY and it is nothing but a THEORY, but I'm a Occam's razor sort of guy.

There, I said it, please feel free to pile on!



I can't speak for policies in Asia, but in the USA, Life Insurance policies pay out even in the case of suicide if in force for at least 2 years.



there was no insurance policie ....



1. I didn't say there was. I was simply responding to a previous poster, generally, about the relationship between an insurance policy and it being paid out in the event of a suicide.
Do you know he didn't have any policies in force? I haven't heard one way or the other, but in the USA, it's very common for at least some be provided as an employer benefit as part of the benefits package, even if the amount isn't very large.

2. It is well known that the pilot had flight paths on his home simulator that very strong mirrored the actual flight path of MH370. Coincidental? Highly unlikely.

*Please proofread your posts before submitting. There is no need to put everything on separate lines. Also, the word 'I' is always capitalized.

Cheers,
Last edited by FriscoHeavy on Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:46 pm

DaveFly wrote:
This was published last year in the Atlantic Monthly (apologies if someone already referenced it). Very compelling argument that it was suicide.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/590653/



Thank you for sharing. I'm reading it now intermittently as I work.
Whatever
 
YYZYYT
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:31 pm

RB211trent wrote:
Now I’ve read some of the above posts, i now realise why the world is in the mess it is.


I also realize why I stopped reading the initial MH370 thread at around post 83...
 
aaden
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:33 pm

chonetsao wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Now more than ever I think that the Chinese Government was behind it.


Yes, my theory is the same. The plane is full of Semi-conductor specialist. And China was so eager to make China 2025 project happening yet the area they were desperate to get the hand on is semi-conductor specialist.

I always wondered if the original PING of the aircraft is correct and flew over India towards Pakistan/Afghanistan. If that original PING was indeed correct and did not go to south Indian ocean, the aircraft could be in either Iran or China. After all there are 2 suspicious Iranian onboard. The possible Chinese airports they could land are QSZ (Shache), TWC (Tumxuk), KHG (Kashgar) or Yutian. Although I can not explain what if the plane landed in Iran how the logistics would work afterwards.

Again it is just my own conspiracy theory. Someone may agree and I would like to think majority would think it as far stretch.



I thought we were pretty certain of the planes trajectory....are experts not on the same page?
 
aaden
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:34 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
asdf wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:


I can't speak for policies in Asia, but in the USA, Life Insurance policies pay out even in the case of suicide if in force for at least 2 years.



there was no insurance policie ....



1. I didn't say there was. I was simply responding to a previous poster, generally, about the relationship between an insurance policy and it being paid out in the event of a suicide.
Do you know he didn't have any policies in force? I haven't heard one way or the other, but in the USA, it's very common for at least some be provided as an employer benefit as part of the benefits package, even if the amount isn't very large.

2. It is well known that the pilot had flight paths on his home simulator that very strong mirrored the actual flight path of MH370. Coincidental? Highly unlikely.

*Please proofread your posts before submitting. There is no need to put everything on separate lines. Also, the word 'I' is always capitalized.

Cheers,


I thought the FBI said the simulator didn't have any notable.... Why would a pilot practice the route out of question?
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 6:48 pm

aaden wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
asdf wrote:


there was no insurance policie ....



1. I didn't say there was. I was simply responding to a previous poster, generally, about the relationship between an insurance policy and it being paid out in the event of a suicide.
Do you know he didn't have any policies in force? I haven't heard one way or the other, but in the USA, it's very common for at least some be provided as an employer benefit as part of the benefits package, even if the amount isn't very large.

2. It is well known that the pilot had flight paths on his home simulator that very strong mirrored the actual flight path of MH370. Coincidental? Highly unlikely.

*Please proofread your posts before submitting. There is no need to put everything on separate lines. Also, the word 'I' is always capitalized.

Cheers,


I thought the FBI said the simulator didn't have any notable.... Why would a pilot practice the route out of question?



Forensic examinations of Zaharie’s simulator by the FBI revealed that he experimented with a flight profile roughly matching that of MH370—a flight north around Indonesia followed by a long run to the south, ending in fuel exhaustion over the Indian Ocean. Malaysian investigators dismissed this flight profile as merely one of several hundred that the simulator had recorded. That is true, as far as it goes, which is not far enough. Victor Iannello, an engineer and entrepreneur in Roanoke, Virginia, who has become another prominent member of the Independent Group and has done extensive analysis of the simulated flight, underscores what the Malaysian investigators ignored. Of all the profiles extracted from the simulator, the one that matched MH370’s path was the only one that Zaharie did not run as a continuous flight—in other words, taking off on the simulator and letting the flight play out, hour after hour, until it reached the destination airport. Instead he advanced the flight manually in multiple stages, repeatedly jumping the flight forward and subtracting the fuel as necessary until it was gone. Iannello believes that Zaharie was responsible for the diversion. Given that there was nothing technical that Zaharie could have learned by rehearsing the act on a gamelike Microsoft consumer product, Iannello suspects that the purpose of the simulator flight may have been to leave a bread-crumb trail to say goodbye. Referring to the flight profile that MH370 would follow, Iannello said of Zaharie, “It’s as if he was simulating a simulation.” Without a note of explanation, Zaharie’s reasoning is impossible to know. But the simulator flight cannot easily be dismissed as a random coincidence.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:09 pm

I have no bias in this whole thing. Besides being interested in it strictly from an aviation stand point (how the heck did a 777 disappear in this day and age), I don't give a rats tail what happened to it. The people died and it's sad and devastating, no matter what the official cause was.

If anyone just stands back and looks at this holistically and dump the ridiculous conspiracy crap that unfortunately, a lot of you like to pettle on here, you wind up with something like this:

1. Pilot Suicide -- Probably a 98% probability this is what happened.
2. Hijacking -- Probably a 1.9% chance this is what happened.
3. All Other Silly Conspiracy Theories -- About a 0.1% chance it happened any of those ways. The strongest argument for a scenario not listed in either #1 or #2 is a battery fire in the cargo hold. However, the plane would not have gone silent after flying for an hour, turned around (plane under control) and flown for another roughly 6 hours. It just didn't happen. So again, that leaves you with two real possible scenarios, which I listed above.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. As I mentioned before, it doesn't matter if it was pilot suicide or it just fell out of the sky to me. It's terrible, no matter how you slice it.
Whatever
 
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BaconButty
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:24 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
2. It is well known that the pilot had flight paths on his home simulator that very strong mirrored the actual flight path of MH370. Coincidental? Highly unlikely.


It's not actually. What was actually found on the sim was a series of breadcrumb points - six if I remember correctly. The first four were heading North West as if on a flight to Europe. The last two were in the SIO. We know they were part of the same sim session because a variable like "Max Bank Angle" was the same. However:
  • The two groups of points have incompatible (virtual) fuel levels if they were part of a single "flight"
  • According to the ATSB they were among many other such points/trails. I don't remember if they said Thousands or Millions
  • The actual end point was in the SIO but it was some 1000nm from the final "ring" from the Inmarsat data.
  • Edit: We don't even know if the four points in the straits were after or before the two in the SIO

So as much as it looks pretty damning when you put them on google earth and join the dots - the reality is quite different, it's near as meaningless.

My concern is that in every other example of pilot suicide, evidence of their state of mind came to light. In this case (if you ignore the BS that circulated in the early days, that has been refuted) it hasn't happened.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:30 pm

BaconButty wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
2. It is well known that the pilot had flight paths on his home simulator that very strong mirrored the actual flight path of MH370. Coincidental? Highly unlikely.


It's not actually. What was actually found on the sim was a series of breadcrumb points - six if I remember correctly. The first four were heading North West as if on a flight to Europe. The last two were in the SIO. We know they were part of the same sim session because variable like "Max Bank Angle" were the same. However:
  • The two groups of points have incompatible (virtual) fuel levels if they were part of a single "flight"
  • According to the ATSB they were among many other such points/trails. I don't remember if they said Thousands or Millions
  • The actual end point was in the SIO but it was some 1000nm from the final "ring" from the Inmarsat data.
  • Edit: We don't even know if the four points in the straits were after or before the two in the SIO

So as much as it looks pretty damning when you put them on google earth and join the dots - the reality is quite different, it's near as meaningless.

My concern is that in every other example of pilot suicide, evidence of their state of mind came to light. In this case (if you ignore the BS that circulated in the early days, that has been refuted) it hasn't happened.


Read my comments a couple posts back. It's straight from an article posted by another member. It does a good job of explaining the flight path issue with the simulator.

The article also addresses the pilot's state of mind, which was not good. Again, read it for yourself.

Pilot suicide is by FAR, the most logical explanation of what occurred.
Whatever
 
hinckley
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 7:47 pm

BaconButty wrote:
My concern is that in every other example of pilot suicide, evidence of their state of mind came to light. In this case (if you ignore the BS that circulated in the early days, that has been refuted) it hasn't happened.

First, the number of modern pilot suicides is very small. Three or four? That's a very small universe of data on which to draw broad conclusions. Second, it's unfortunately not uncommon for suicides to occur without prior or subsequent evidence. I know of just such an event with a friend's dad just a short while ago. As I've said many times in these threads, none of us should think we know what goes on in the mind of someone committing suicide. It must be a dark and lonely place.
 
hinckley
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:19 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
1. Pilot Suicide -- Probably a 98% probability this is what happened.
2. Hijacking -- Probably a 1.9% chance this is what happened.
3. All Other Silly Conspiracy Theories -- About a 0.1% chance it happened any of those ways.

Sounds about right. Hijacking could make sense as another explanation of a controlled ditching. Maybe even a different suicide. But the timing just doesn't work. Think about it . . . Zaharie says goodnight to KUL ATC and a short time later, the transponder is switched off. If the Germanwings crash taught us nothing else, we know that it's pretty impossible to break thru the cockpit door. So the door would have had to be opened for someone known to the crew, and that someone would have had to decapacitate both of the crew members and quickly take control of the plane (meaning they had to be a pilot as well). Who would that have been? Certainly no one that came to light in the passenger manifest.
 
TheWorm123
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:44 pm

A fire ‘could’ be ruled out by the fact that average amount of time a doomed flight on fire has lasted is 17 minutes [1]. This flight evidently carried on for _hours_ after final contact with ATC.

1.https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Fire_in_the_Air
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FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:59 pm

hinckley wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
1. Pilot Suicide -- Probably a 98% probability this is what happened.
2. Hijacking -- Probably a 1.9% chance this is what happened.
3. All Other Silly Conspiracy Theories -- About a 0.1% chance it happened any of those ways.

Sounds about right. Hijacking could make sense as another explanation of a controlled ditching. Maybe even a different suicide. But the timing just doesn't work. Think about it . . . Zaharie says goodnight to KUL ATC and a short time later, the transponder is switched off. If the Germanwings crash taught us nothing else, we know that it's pretty impossible to break thru the cockpit door. So the door would have had to be opened for someone known to the crew, and that someone would have had to decapacitate both of the crew members and quickly take control of the plane (meaning they had to be a pilot as well). Who would that have been? Certainly no one that came to light in the passenger manifest.



I completely agree with you. Given the reinforced and locked cockpit doors, I do not suspect hijacking either, but I'd say it's far more probable than anything else except suicide. Unfortunately, I'd be a whole lot of money on the suicide idea. There is just too many 'coincidental' events for it to not be suicide - as you alluded to, the ATC communication, the pilot's personal life, flight simulator, etc. There are just too many things that line up that suggests suicide. None of the other idea (if you can even call them that) make any sense, whatsoever when you step back and examine everything.

I get that you (investigators) need to have a completely open mind at the beginning, but it quickly became clear what happened and these other bogus ideas can be laid to rest.

Will we ever find the wreckage? Unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. If it's found, it will be by complete accident.
Whatever
 
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garpd
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:47 pm

asdf wrote:
a fire is possible......


:shakehead: Nope, not at all.

1. A fire drastic enough to cut all the radios and transponders so suddenly would not let the plane fly for many hours. We know the plane flew for several hours after going radio silent due to the engine management pings.

2. A fire that drastic would have had smoke become very obvious early on and the crew would have reported it.

3. A fire that drastic would have caused the plane to break up in flight and leave a lot of wreckage to be found and investigated.

------

I normally give the pilots the benefit of doubt whe nit comes to plane crashes as I find that all too often they're dead, so cannot defend themselves and are too easy to be used as scape goats.
But, the profile of the events of that night do point toward someone who knew what they were doing. They knew how to turn the transponder completely off and seemed to know how to fly it, either manually or with the auto pilot. With the locked, hardened flight deck door, this leaves the most likely scenario of that night to be one of the pilots hijacking their own plane for whatever reason.
It's happened before MH370 and since too. (Silkair 185, Egyptair 990, Germanwings 9525, to name just a few)
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Lukas757
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:05 pm

How long would the aluminium fuselage last in the salt water? If it’s indeed intact somewhere on the ocean ground, then at some point it will dissolve and some parts (lighter than water) will float around.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:19 pm

Lukas757 wrote:
How long would the aluminium fuselage last in the salt water? If it’s indeed intact somewhere on the ocean ground, then at some point it will dissolve and some parts (lighter than water) will float around.


I do not know how long it would survive in salt water, but quite a while. I mean, we still find plane and ship wrecks that date back to WW1 and so forth. So, a long time.

However, given the number of pieces already discovered, the plane is nowhere near being in one piece. We can only hope that enough large pieces (i.e. tail section, wing section, etc) are within an X square mile radius of each other on the ocean floor.
Whatever
 
airboss787
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:29 pm

Antaras wrote:
What if in the next five years a strange 77E with callsign MALAYSIAN 370 suddenly asking for a diversion to SGN or contacting PEK's ATC for a good touch-down ?


That would be chilling! But also really cool. There is a show on NBC called Manifest. Season 1 Episode 1 of that show is very similar to what you said. Little creepy but very fascinating.
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hinckley
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:54 pm

FriscoHeavy wrote:
Will we ever find the wreckage? Unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. If it's found, it will be by complete accident.

This is saying the unsayable, but most mass murderers have the delusional idea that they'll be remembered forever. Well Zaharie may have actually pulled that off, masterminding the disappearance of a modern jetliner and taking 238 lives with him. Never to be found. A gruesome modern day Emilia Earhart-like mystery that everyone keeps talking about and devising conspiracies around. Anyway, that's my personal theor . . . err . . . hypothesis.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:20 am

hinckley wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
Will we ever find the wreckage? Unlikely. Possible, but unlikely. If it's found, it will be by complete accident.

This is saying the unsayable, but most mass murderers have the delusional idea that they'll be remembered forever. Well Zaharie may have actually pulled that off, masterminding the disappearance of a modern jetliner and taking 238 lives with him. Never to be found. A gruesome modern day Emilia Earhart-like mystery that everyone keeps talking about and devising conspiracies around. Anyway, that's my personal theor . . . err . . . hypothesis.


That is true. It was a long-winded statement that really means nothing. I was trying to convey that I do not think it will be found. I worded it very poorly.

I hope I’m wrong and it’s found, just not optimistic. :D
Whatever
 
GZM1
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:42 am

FriscoHeavy wrote:
DaveFly wrote:
This was published last year in the Atlantic Monthly (apologies if someone already referenced it). Very compelling argument that it was suicide.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/590653/



Thank you for sharing. I'm reading it now intermittently as I work.

Well, I read it too. It doesn’t say anything new,it just summarizes everything we already know and it leaves something out: It forgets to mention the guy on the rig who reported something similar to what the lady on the yacht had seen, contacted the press and was promptly dismissed from his job-(we want to have nothing to do with him, this kind of thing). So, that makes two eye-witnesses. Something was going on that night, whatever that aircraft was, more sinister than you like to think. It smells of secret service doings.
Another important point is that the cockpit crew was on standby status that day and were called on duty at an hour’s notice. How could they have known what flight they would be assigned to fly? Is it wise to insist that the captain improvised?
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HNLSLCPDX
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 4:02 am

Can you imagine if MH370 happened in 2020...
 
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mmx747
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:44 am

Antaras wrote:
What if in the next five years a strange 77E with callsign MALAYSIAN 370 suddenly asking for a diversion to SGN or contacting PEK's ATC for a good touch-down ?

That could only be explained.. in the Twilight Zone.
 
asdf
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:26 am

garpd wrote:
asdf wrote:
a fire is possible......

:shakehead: Nope, not at all.
1. A fire drastic enough to cut all the radios and transponders so suddenly would not let the plane fly for many hours. We know the plane flew for several hours after going radio silent due to the engine management pings.


dont u think that a lithium fire in that front cargo hold can absolutely make them silent because it affects a lotta stuff in the avionics bay?

lithium fires are common
MH370 had a large amount of it on bord

pilots try to stop the fire
it works
fire is out
but the hull melted in the front cargo hold aerea
it happende before, its not a unique incident

plane depresses
something goes wrong with the switch on oxigen supply for the cockpitcrew
crew unconscious
game over
maybe only one of two pilots was up front that time
they already reached theire cruising altitude
typical point for going on rest or to the toilette
thats not unique
thats common

no mayday?
no pilot would scream for help from ATC at this point
ATC cant help

the course?
no idea
there are so many theories about that course
maybe the did the bow north around indonesia
maybe they dont
indonesia can not admit that a 777 crossed the whole country unnoticed from civilian and military air control
this would be a strategic nightmare for indonesia

maybe the last what the PIC on 370 in the thick smoke and nearly out of breath did was to set direction to the next airport and then the plane on its own did a straight line south to the SIO ..


i do not know if it happened that way
maybe it was suicide

but it is possible that it was a fire ...
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:41 am

asdf wrote:
garpd wrote:
asdf wrote:
a fire is possible......

:shakehead: Nope, not at all.
1. A fire drastic enough to cut all the radios and transponders so suddenly would not let the plane fly for many hours. We know the plane flew for several hours after going radio silent due to the engine management pings.


dont u think that a lithium fire in that front cargo hold can absolutely make them silent because it affects a lotta stuff in the avionics bay?

lithium fires are common
MH370 had a large amount of it on bord

pilots try to stop the fire
it works
fire is out
but the hull melted in the front cargo hold aerea
it happende before, its not a unique incident

plane depresses
something goes wrong with the switch on oxigen supply for the cockpitcrew
crew unconscious
game over
maybe only one of two pilots was up front that time
they already reached theire cruising altitude
typical point for going on rest or to the toilette
thats not unique
thats common

no mayday?
no pilot would scream for help from ATC at this point
ATC cant help

the course?
no idea
there are so many theories about that course
maybe the did the bow north around indonesia
maybe they dont
indonesia can not admit that a 777 crossed the whole country unnoticed from civilian and military air control
this would be a strategic nightmare for indonesia

maybe the last what the PIC on 370 in the thick smoke and nearly out of breath did was to set direction to the next airport and then the plane on its own did a straight line south to the SIO ..


i do not know if it happened that way
maybe it was suicide

but it is possible that it was a fire ...


No, asdf, it was NOT fire. The plane would not flown for approximately 6 hours. Get that through your head. That did NOT happen. Please stop with that silly (and that's being nice) theory you have.
Whatever
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:43 am

GZM1 wrote:
FriscoHeavy wrote:
DaveFly wrote:
This was published last year in the Atlantic Monthly (apologies if someone already referenced it). Very compelling argument that it was suicide.
https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/590653/



Thank you for sharing. I'm reading it now intermittently as I work.

Well, I read it too. It doesn’t say anything new,it just summarizes everything we already know and it leaves something out: It forgets to mention the guy on the rig who reported something similar to what the lady on the yacht had seen, contacted the press and was promptly dismissed from his job-(we want to have nothing to do with him, this kind of thing). So, that makes two eye-witnesses. Something was going on that night, whatever that aircraft was, more sinister than you like to think. It smells of secret service doings.
Another important point is that the cockpit crew was on standby status that day and were called on duty at an hour’s notice. How could they have known what flight they would be assigned to fly? Is it wise to insist that the captain improvised?


Who's Secret Service? And Why? Again, is it technically possible? Yes. However, that is just more silly talk. The Secret Service did not take over the plane and crash it, killing everyone. I'm sorry. It's beyond silly.
Whatever
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10508
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:54 am

asdf wrote:
garpd wrote:
asdf wrote:
a fire is possible......

:shakehead: Nope, not at all.
1. A fire drastic enough to cut all the radios and transponders so suddenly would not let the plane fly for many hours. We know the plane flew for several hours after going radio silent due to the engine management pings.


dont u think that a lithium fire in that front cargo hold can absolutely make them silent because it affects a lotta stuff in the avionics bay?

lithium fires are common
MH370 had a large amount of it on bord

pilots try to stop the fire
it works
fire is out
but the hull melted in the front cargo hold aerea
it happende before, its not a unique incident

plane depresses
something goes wrong with the switch on oxigen supply for the cockpitcrew
crew unconscious
game over
maybe only one of two pilots was up front that time
they already reached theire cruising altitude
typical point for going on rest or to the toilette
thats not unique
thats common

no mayday?
no pilot would scream for help from ATC at this point
ATC cant help

the course?
no idea
there are so many theories about that course
maybe the did the bow north around indonesia
maybe they dont
indonesia can not admit that a 777 crossed the whole country unnoticed from civilian and military air control
this would be a strategic nightmare for indonesia

maybe the last what the PIC on 370 in the thick smoke and nearly out of breath did was to set direction to the next airport and then the plane on its own did a straight line south to the SIO ..


i do not know if it happened that way
maybe it was suicide

but it is possible that it was a fire ...

So a fire grew large enough to completely knock out all communication, and all pilot control before they could even start descent to a lower altitude (because a decompression only kills you if you stay at altitude) BUT the airworthiness of the plane was not affected (could apparently cruise at altitude no problem for hours) AND the pilots managed to put it out before they died?

That is one magical fire.
 
planecane
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:50 pm

Lilienthal wrote:
asdf wrote:
if someone really wants to see a biiiiiiiig conspiracy (and i am NOT in that camp, my bet is on a fire, or a suicide or a hijack)



You're simply overestimating the intelligence service's capabilities of the US or China or Russia. They don't have "detailed records" of what happened to every manmade moving object in the sky, and the thousands of commercial airliners are certainly not objects of interests for a frigate or a maritime patrol aircraft that might have been in the area.

The NSA can certainly somehow get access to the relevant satellite data on their own, but with that they don't know more than the multiple countries and investigating agencies all around the globe...


Exactly. There is no military radar coverage out in the middle of the Pacific ocean. People have a very fantastic view of what military and intelligence agencies are capable of when it comes to physical object tracking.
 
planecane
Posts: 1559
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:51 pm

Polot wrote:
asdf wrote:
garpd wrote:
:shakehead: Nope, not at all.
1. A fire drastic enough to cut all the radios and transponders so suddenly would not let the plane fly for many hours. We know the plane flew for several hours after going radio silent due to the engine management pings.


dont u think that a lithium fire in that front cargo hold can absolutely make them silent because it affects a lotta stuff in the avionics bay?

lithium fires are common
MH370 had a large amount of it on bord

pilots try to stop the fire
it works
fire is out
but the hull melted in the front cargo hold aerea
it happende before, its not a unique incident

plane depresses
something goes wrong with the switch on oxigen supply for the cockpitcrew
crew unconscious
game over
maybe only one of two pilots was up front that time
they already reached theire cruising altitude
typical point for going on rest or to the toilette
thats not unique
thats common

no mayday?
no pilot would scream for help from ATC at this point
ATC cant help

the course?
no idea
there are so many theories about that course
maybe the did the bow north around indonesia
maybe they dont
indonesia can not admit that a 777 crossed the whole country unnoticed from civilian and military air control
this would be a strategic nightmare for indonesia

maybe the last what the PIC on 370 in the thick smoke and nearly out of breath did was to set direction to the next airport and then the plane on its own did a straight line south to the SIO ..


i do not know if it happened that way
maybe it was suicide

but it is possible that it was a fire ...

So a fire grew large enough to completely knock out all communication, and all pilot control before they could even start descent to a lower altitude (because a decompression only kills you if you stay at altitude) BUT the airworthiness of the plane was not affected (could apparently cruise at altitude no problem for hours) AND the pilots managed to put it out before they died?

That is one magical fire.


Somehow it didn't effect the FBW systems.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10508
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:57 pm

planecane wrote:
Polot wrote:
asdf wrote:

dont u think that a lithium fire in that front cargo hold can absolutely make them silent because it affects a lotta stuff in the avionics bay?

lithium fires are common
MH370 had a large amount of it on bord

pilots try to stop the fire
it works
fire is out
but the hull melted in the front cargo hold aerea
it happende before, its not a unique incident

plane depresses
something goes wrong with the switch on oxigen supply for the cockpitcrew
crew unconscious
game over
maybe only one of two pilots was up front that time
they already reached theire cruising altitude
typical point for going on rest or to the toilette
thats not unique
thats common

no mayday?
no pilot would scream for help from ATC at this point
ATC cant help

the course?
no idea
there are so many theories about that course
maybe the did the bow north around indonesia
maybe they dont
indonesia can not admit that a 777 crossed the whole country unnoticed from civilian and military air control
this would be a strategic nightmare for indonesia

maybe the last what the PIC on 370 in the thick smoke and nearly out of breath did was to set direction to the next airport and then the plane on its own did a straight line south to the SIO ..


i do not know if it happened that way
maybe it was suicide

but it is possible that it was a fire ...

So a fire grew large enough to completely knock out all communication, and all pilot control before they could even start descent to a lower altitude (because a decompression only kills you if you stay at altitude) BUT the airworthiness of the plane was not affected (could apparently cruise at altitude no problem for hours) AND the pilots managed to put it out before they died?

That is one magical fire.


Somehow it didn't effect the FBW systems.

Well, some FBW systems. This fire apparently prevented the aircraft from descending to a breathable altitude from the start but still allowed the plane to make multiple turns at various different times. The FBW system could still make the plane climb and descend (as it is established that there were altitude changes based on the little data we have). Just not to a breathable altitude. What a fire!
 
GZM1
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:21 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 3:08 pm

Let’s make something clear: This thread was re-opened with the purpose of exploring new theories and suggestions. If some people have come here just to keep repeating the pilot-did-it thing which has been repeated literally “ad nauseam” for the last six years, grabbing every chance they get to insult others, then this thread is not for them... A moderator could lock it at any moment. Learn to respect others!
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smaragdz
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:48 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:20 pm

Is there anything new at all to report on this? It would be interesting to know if any other wreckage has been found washed up on any shores or if any govts or companies are planning any new searches? I'm guessing not...
 
santi319
Posts: 1000
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 5:56 pm

aaden wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
santi319 wrote:
Now more than ever I think that the Chinese Government was behind it.


Yes, my theory is the same. The plane is full of Semi-conductor specialist. And China was so eager to make China 2025 project happening yet the area they were desperate to get the hand on is semi-conductor specialist.

I always wondered if the original PING of the aircraft is correct and flew over India towards Pakistan/Afghanistan. If that original PING was indeed correct and did not go to south Indian ocean, the aircraft could be in either Iran or China. After all there are 2 suspicious Iranian onboard. The possible Chinese airports they could land are QSZ (Shache), TWC (Tumxuk), KHG (Kashgar) or Yutian. Although I can not explain what if the plane landed in Iran how the logistics would work afterwards.

Again it is just my own conspiracy theory. Someone may agree and I would like to think majority would think it as far stretch.



I thought we were pretty certain of the planes trajectory....are experts not on the same page?



https://www.gaia.com/article/guo-wengui ... harvesting
 
hinckley
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:00 pm

smaragdz wrote:
Is there anything new at all to report on this? It would be interesting to know if any other wreckage has been found washed up on any shores or if any govts or companies are planning any new searches? I'm guessing not...

The only thing that I'm aware of is that Tony Abbott, the Australian PM at the time of the disappearance, recently said that Malaysian officials at the "top levels" believe the event was murder-suicide.

“My very clear understanding, from the very top levels of the Malaysian government, is that from very, very early on, they thought it was murder-suicide by the pilot. I’m not going to say who said what to whom, but let me reiterate, I want to be absolutely crystal clear, it was understood at the highest levels that this was almost certainly murder-suicide by the pilot.”

https://apnews.com/3feb92bc2b2105c4bce97d06316e9e8c
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 898
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:03 pm

My question would be with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if the search areas would be determined or examined differently. Without getting into the cause of the disappearance, would the authorities interpret the satellite pings differently today rather than several years ago? Would they interpret the plane's final course differently and search accordingly?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10508
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:10 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
My question would be with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, if the search areas would be determined or examined differently. Without getting into the cause of the disappearance, would the authorities interpret the satellite pings differently today rather than several years ago? Would they interpret the plane's final course differently and search accordingly?

They wouldn’t have interpreted it differently because it’s not like that data is lost. There has not been a radical shift in how the data has been interpreted today versus when the data was first received 6 years ago.

Now there is the question of whether they had accurate data sooner if they would have been able to find or at least narrow down the crash location instead of wasting precious time searching areas like the South China Sea.
 
asdf
Posts: 695
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:03 am

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:55 pm

Polot wrote:
[
So a fire grew large enough to completely knock out all communication, and all pilot control before they could even start descent to a lower altitude (because a decompression only kills you if you stay at altitude) BUT the airworthiness of the plane was not affected (could apparently cruise at altitude no problem for hours) AND the pilots managed to put it out before they died?


i dont want to be put into the "it was a fire!" group
because i dont know

but to answer your question:
it only needed to put out the transponder, noting else
if it was a fire the crew had a lot to do
and to inform ATC was the least important

dont know about the altitude
could be a oxygen fire too
its not unique
it has happenden before
maybe they simply had no time
a scenario like the nefereti boeing EgyptAir_Flight_667 maybe ?
 
FriscoHeavy
Posts: 1727
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:31 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:01 pm

asdf wrote:
Polot wrote:
[
So a fire grew large enough to completely knock out all communication, and all pilot control before they could even start descent to a lower altitude (because a decompression only kills you if you stay at altitude) BUT the airworthiness of the plane was not affected (could apparently cruise at altitude no problem for hours) AND the pilots managed to put it out before they died?


i dont want to be put into the "it was a fire!" group
because i dont know

but to answer your question:
it only needed to put out the transponder, noting else
if it was a fire the crew had to to a lot and to inform ATC is the least important

dont know about the altitude
could be a oxygen fire too
its not unique
it has happenden before
maybe they simply had no time
a scenario like this maybe?
Image
pic: wikipedia


As we've told you 10 times asdf, NO!

A fire would NOT have permitted the plane to fly around for about 6 hours. Read the prior posts and get this bogus idea out of your head. The whole idea is ludicrous and contradicts itself -- try comprehending this: You say there was no time to notify ATC, but yet it had 6 hours to fly around under control of a person. It makes no sense. Can you put that silly 'theory' to bed?

The PM of Australia at the time, notes Malaysia is almost certain it's murder-suicide.
Whatever
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10508
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 7:06 pm

asdf wrote:
Polot wrote:
[
So a fire grew large enough to completely knock out all communication, and all pilot control before they could even start descent to a lower altitude (because a decompression only kills you if you stay at altitude) BUT the airworthiness of the plane was not affected (could apparently cruise at altitude no problem for hours) AND the pilots managed to put it out before they died?


i dont want to be put into the "it was a fire!" group
because i dont know

but to answer your question:
it only needed to put out the transponder, noting else
if it was a fire the crew had a lot to do
and to inform ATC was the least important

dont know about the altitude
could be a oxygen fire too
its not unique
it has happenden before
maybe they simply had no time
a scenario like the nefereti boeing EgyptAir_Flight_667 maybe ?

If all the fire did was put out the transponder then they still could have contacted ATC later and they would have immediately made an emergency descent and headed straight to the nearest airport. They wouldn’t fly out to the Indian Ocean and just fly off into the horizon for hours on end.
 
aaden
Topic Author
Posts: 803
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 9:49 am

Re: Revisiting MH370

Thu Jun 25, 2020 11:06 pm

What was the hypothesis behind the aircraft's flight path before it headed south. Was the thought that it was avoiding radar detection?
 
hinckley
Posts: 603
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2006 10:53 am

Re: Revisiting MH370

Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:09 am

aaden wrote:
What was the hypothesis behind the aircraft's flight path before it headed south. Was the thought that it was avoiding radar detection?

iirc, the thought was that by flying along the Malaysian-Thai border, each country would think it was the other's airplane. And to the extent either country even noticed the plane flying across the Malay peninsula, that turned out to be correct.
 
AstroNav
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 8:51 am

Re: Revisiting MH370

Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:11 am

The Atlantic article summarises it through the available factual and circumstantial evidence.

A few points to consider:

Steep turns - deliberate manual flight.
Flying along the border with that accuracy - deliberate manual flight.
'Breadcrumb' sectors in the flight simulator.
Steep fuel exhaustion dive profile - a 'million' impact pieces/ not as a controlled glide/ hull relatively intact.
More small wreckage to be discovered - probably.
Nothing to find of use on the SIO floor - probable waste of money.
USN Sonar - if operational - could detect crash impact. Decades old test of a small explosion dropped off WA picked up in the Caribbean +7h.
Nothing to 'see' of interest in the SIO - intelligence satellites look down 'straws' at fixed points of interest on earth - USA, NK, CN, Russia etc.

Thus, we will never know the complete answer but as Sherlock Holmes used to say...

Perhaps we should agree to make an 'educated inference' instead?!

PS Theories can also describe phenomena not yet observed but predicted - e.g relativistic mechanics - Gravitational effects thereof.
 
Zodiac787
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2015 7:53 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 am

Continental767 wrote:
This thread will be closed soon, so I’ll just speculate a bit. I’ve always wondered about the theory of a remote hijacking using the aircraft’s computers. There’s no evidence of that of course, but parts of it make sense. The precise course changes, potentially incapacitated crew, etc. Just a thought.

I am certainly not saying that I know what happened but I indeed like this theory.
It explains almost every point:
Why it was not mentioned or officially seen for hours (Hijackers may have been negotiating while airplane was flying)
Why governments first denied that it kept on flying (they cant talk about it)
Why the plane made those strategic turns
Why no other government claims to have seen it on their primary radars
Why it kept on flying until fuel exhaustion
Why no other government has followed up, merely in some cases spent some money for research.
And obviously, it is in the interest of noone to let the word out that this COULD happen. Only con, the people at Boeing would have known about it... And a large number of people that know a secret means leaks... Which didnt happen as far as I know
Now lets get ready to be slapped. :)
 
GZM1
Posts: 73
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:21 pm

Re: Revisiting MH370

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:53 pm

Zodiac787 wrote:
Continental767 wrote:
This thread will be closed soon, so I’ll just speculate a bit.

..................................................................
Why the plane made those strategic turns
Why no other government claims to have seen it on their primary radars
Why it kept on flying until fuel exhaustion.

1)The thread will not be closed if we keep the discussion on a civilized level. This is not a taboo subject.
2)Don’t be so sure that the plane did make all those movements. Have you seen those videos on YouTube about 9/11 and what aircraft drones can do? The technology exists. Seek them out, they are very illuminating. In fact, they speak volumes...
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