Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:46 pm

This is the same model at the cr smith museum and it has the state rooms!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/vulcan/94720865/sizes/l/
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Sun Jun 28, 2020 12:15 am

wernerga3 wrote:
Image

This is a rare photo of the American leased paa first class cabin. You can tell from the seat type and the blue wall closet. They just added red headrest covers.


I know I've seen a photo of the American leased paa coach cabin in a press photo that was ultra generic labelled like jumbo jet cabin or something. I remember it had the paa coach seats with the AA headrest covers. I've been hunting everywhere for the photo.


Here is that ultra rare photo of the paa leased American 747 sky club coach. Looks like they did change the seat fabric to be alternating and random unlike paa but the seat type is the paa one with the ashtray in the seat back. They also added the headrest covers with the Aztec looking print.

This photo is uber rare since they only flew this leased one for A few months before getting their first astroliners

Image
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1880
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:23 am

cathay747 wrote:
deltacto wrote:
sbajim wrote:
In 1971 I flew from LAX to WAS (don't remember the airport) in an AA 747. There was a lounge at the rear of the cabin. I took a photo of it which (hopefully) can be viewed here [photoid]http://www.stubchaer.com/AA_B747_1971.jpg[/photoid]. I just joined Airliners and this is my first post, so I'm a novice at posting. Here's the link in case it failed to embed before: "http://www.stubchaer.com/AA_B747_1971.jpg"


Welcome !

In 1971 most likely you would have flown into Dulles (IAD) ... I don't know if AA flew into Baltimore from LAX ... And National (DCA) was too small for 747's


It was most definitely IAD, and would have been flight 76; I flew it several times myself as a kid w/parents. The later AA nonstop remained a 707 for many more years. And AA didn't fly LAX-BAL, UA had that route; DCA was not only too small by a huge margin, but also LAX was way beyond the allowed perimeter for nonstops to/from DCA.


AA and TWA also had Los Angeles-Baltimore authority, although they didn't always use it. I don't have an OAG from 1970 or 1971, but my Sep 1972 OAG shows the following nonstop flights on this route:

UA 52 Lv LAX 900, ar IAD 1645; DC-10
AA 76 lv LAX 915, ar IAD 1700, 747
UA 64 lv LAX 1000, ar BAL 1745, DC-8-50
TW 890 lv LAX 1000, ar IAD 1747, 707; this flight continued from IAD to ORY and FCO
UA 54 lv LAX 1245, ar IAD 2032, DC-8-50
TW 74 lv LAX 1300, ar IAD 2051, 707
AA 44 lv LAX 1535, ar IAD 2315, 707
AA 78 lv LAX 2215, ar IAD 0555, 707
TW 62 lv LAX 1050, ar IAD 0622, 707

In July, 1977, the nonstops on this route were:

AA 76 lv LAX 900, ar IAD 1649, DC-10
TW 14 lv LAX 900, ar IAD 1649, L-1011
UA 52 lv LAX 900, ar IAD 1655, DC-10
UA 62 lv LAX 1105, ar BAL 1850, DC-8-50
UA 54 lv LAX 1230, ar IAD 2025, DC-8-61
AA 110 lv LAX 1245, ar IAD 2036, DC-10
TW 18 lv LAX 1345, ar IAD 2139, 707
AA 62 lv LAX 2215, ar BAL 0602, 707

AA and TWA also flew one stop red eyes from LAX to IAD leaving at 2130; TWA's was via PHX with an L-1011 with continuing service to PHL, and AA's was via DFW on a DC-10
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1440
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Sun Jun 28, 2020 3:03 pm

WA707atMSP wrote:
AA and TWA also had Los Angeles-Baltimore authority, although they didn't always use it.


Thanks for the correction; I didn't know that, but it makes sense.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
WrldTravlr65
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 13, 2019 12:14 am

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:12 am

So cool to see these pictures. That was the first airplane I ever flew on. I think I was 5 or 6 years old. Flying to JFK from LAX with my family to see my mom's family in Connecticut. I remember the Luxury Liner moniker. A real deja vu moment.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8171
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:44 am

wernerga3 wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Image

This is a rare photo of the American leased paa first class cabin. You can tell from the seat type and the blue wall closet. They just added red headrest covers.


I know I've seen a photo of the American leased paa coach cabin in a press photo that was ultra generic labelled like jumbo jet cabin or something. I remember it had the paa coach seats with the AA headrest covers. I've been hunting everywhere for the photo.


Here is that ultra rare photo of the paa leased American 747 sky club coach. Looks like they did change the seat fabric to be alternating and random unlike paa but the seat type is the paa one with the ashtray in the seat back. They also added the headrest covers with the Aztec looking print.

This photo is uber rare since they only flew this leased one for A few months before getting their first astroliners

Image




In the top right corner of all the seat backs is a small rectangular plastic panel


Looks like you can slide it open and there’s a ‘cubby hole’ for storage of small items ?
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:36 pm

Max Q wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Image

This is a rare photo of the American leased paa first class cabin. You can tell from the seat type and the blue wall closet. They just added red headrest covers.


I know I've seen a photo of the American leased paa coach cabin in a press photo that was ultra generic labelled like jumbo jet cabin or something. I remember it had the paa coach seats with the AA headrest covers. I've been hunting everywhere for the photo.


Here is that ultra rare photo of the paa leased American 747 sky club coach. Looks like they did change the seat fabric to be alternating and random unlike paa but the seat type is the paa one with the ashtray in the seat back. They also added the headrest covers with the Aztec looking print.

This photo is uber rare since they only flew this leased one for A few months before getting their first astroliners

Image




In the top right corner of all the seat backs is a small rectangular plastic panel


Looks like you can slide it open and there’s a ‘cubby hole’ for storage of small items ?


Aren't those Airfones? Or was this too early for those?
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:09 pm

Max Q wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Image

This is a rare photo of the American leased paa first class cabin. You can tell from the seat type and the blue wall closet. They just added red headrest covers.


I know I've seen a photo of the American leased paa coach cabin in a press photo that was ultra generic labelled like jumbo jet cabin or something. I remember it had the paa coach seats with the AA headrest covers. I've been hunting everywhere for the photo.


Here is that ultra rare photo of the paa leased American 747 sky club coach. Looks like they did change the seat fabric to be alternating and random unlike paa but the seat type is the paa one with the ashtray in the seat back. They also added the headrest covers with the Aztec looking print.

This photo is uber rare since they only flew this leased one for A few months before getting their first astroliners

Image




In the top right corner of all the seat backs is a small rectangular plastic panel


Looks like you can slide it open and there’s a ‘cubby hole’ for storage of small items ?

Those are the paa 747 seats (since AA leased their first 747 from paa) and that panel is a giant ashtray.
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:18 pm

So to bring this back on topic, does anyone know the definitive answer about the upper deck?
 
richiemo
Posts: 244
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:15 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:51 pm

I never flew on an AA 747, only on a Lufthansa one on the past few years. But what was always fascinating, and you see it in some of these photos, is that when you sat on the lower deck, the outer cabin walls seemed to bend outward as the rose, instead of inward as all narrow body and even some current widebody cabins do. Showed the sheer size of this beauty.
 
Qantas59
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:34 pm

I so respect your tenacity wernerga3 with all of your research on this topic. You have unearthed previously hidden data regarding the Astroliner staterooms. As much as I have been interested in topics such as these I never knew about this initial AA 747 configuration. Being that all of the airlines 747 introduction were such a public event, It's unfortunate that there are not more photos of AA's initial 747 interiors. It seems as if the massive Luxuryliner advertising campaign effectively vanquished all earlier references to the AA delivered Astroliners.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:13 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
I so respect your tenacity wernerga3 with all of your research on this topic. You have unearthed previously hidden data regarding the Astroliner staterooms. As much as I have been interested in topics such as these I never knew about this initial AA 747 configuration. Being that all of the airlines 747 introduction were such a public event, It's unfortunate that there are not more photos of AA's initial 747 interiors. It seems as if the massive Luxuryliner advertising campaign effectively vanquished all earlier references to the AA delivered Astroliners.

Thanks for the support. To add to the strangeness, this same exact brochure as the one I posted earlier in the thread, shows an exact paa config with full c zone coach. I guess they changed that as well before the astroliner introduction when they added San Fran

Image

Earlier posted version:
Image
 
DFW17L
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 2:53 am

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:20 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
klkla wrote:
NYCAAer wrote:
The coach lounge became more popular than the upper deck first class lounge because of the piano. From what the senior ladies I’ve flown with have told me, you never knew who would end up playing the piano. You might have gotten an impromptu concert from Stevie Wonder!

The flights were never as full as they are in today’s world, so overcrowding wasn’t as much of an issue. In fact, AA put in the piano lounge as a way to attract customers, because they were having trouble filling all the seats. There’s a really cool TV advertisement for the AA 747 piano lounge that featured a young Henry Winkler, still on YouTube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKENjXZJ3yI


So, no one noticed The Fonz at the 0:24 mark of this video????


Sure we noticed. His repertoire was limited to a single note —- ayyy.
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:22 pm

And here is that rare seat map with the coach lounge, when the luxury liner was established in 1971.

This came from a training manual that a retired FA had. Not sure they ever posted this seat map anywhere from what I could tell.

The next version I could find was when they removed the coach lounge in 1976.

Image
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:36 pm

This confirms that the initial AA upper deck when they leased the paa plane was the paa upper deck.

Image
Image

Now if I could just find out more about the initial AA astroliners upper decks which were delivered in June 1970
Of course at that time they just left the upper deck diagram on the safety card empty..
Image
Image
 
AA747123
Posts: 278
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:15 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:39 am

Although not a "early 747" I do have a picture of AA747sp business class. I just cant figure out how to upload it to my post. Pictures of AA747sp cabin are pretty much non existant.
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:28 am

AA747123 wrote:
Although not a "early 747" I do have a picture of AA747sp business class. I just cant figure out how to upload it to my post. Pictures of AA747sp cabin are pretty much non existant.

I have actually seen the three promotional photos of coach biz and first for the 747sp. And interestingly enough I own a first class 747sp blue lambswool sleeper seat! But that was of course way later than the era were talking about anyway.
 
Qantas59
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:17 am

I can't seem to access the images of the paa upper deck. Was it the one with the semi-circular couch, or the standard "Boeing 747" generic upper deck lounge setup?
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
Max Q
Posts: 8171
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:08 am

wernerga3 wrote:
Max Q wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:

Here is that ultra rare photo of the paa leased American 747 sky club coach. Looks like they did change the seat fabric to be alternating and random unlike paa but the seat type is the paa one with the ashtray in the seat back. They also added the headrest covers with the Aztec looking print.

This photo is uber rare since they only flew this leased one for A few months before getting their first astroliners

Image




In the top right corner of all the seat backs is a small rectangular plastic panel


Looks like you can slide it open and there’s a ‘cubby hole’ for storage of small items ?

Those are the paa 747 seats (since AA leased their first 747 from paa) and that panel is a giant ashtray.



Well that’s funny, now that I look a bit closer I can see one of the center row aisle seat passengers smoking a cigarette with that panel slid open


Doesn’t seem that safe having an ashtray in the seat back but I guess it was


I remember most ash trays in that era being in the armrests
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:53 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
I can't seem to access the images of the paa upper deck. Was it the one with the semi-circular couch, or the standard "Boeing 747" generic upper deck lounge setup?

Sorry the links died. Let me try again: and it was the paa one with the semi circular couch (fun fact: paa introduced that couch last minute to add 2 more passengers- long story), which makes sense since it was a paa plane they leased at first. And they only added the addl first class seats when they added the sfo route in April.

But of course the initially delivered astroliner safety card has nothing on the upper deck diagram when the staterooms existed.

Image
Image

Image
Image
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:38 pm

This is the Boeing upper deck which was used on only a few such as jal and air Canada. Pan am originally had it in the pre production interior when it went to the Paris air show. It sat 14 instead of 16.

Image
 
Qantas59
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:06 pm

Thanks for re-posting those images. Seems AA was, understandably experimenting with their first factory fresh Astroliners. The fact that they had the PA upper deck configuration on the safety cards and not the stateroom config. is noteworthy. Seems they weren't fully on board with the stateroom plan. Also the F seats in zone C is another example of uncertainty. Both, as we know didn't last long into 1971.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:39 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
Thanks for re-posting those images. Seems AA was, understandably experimenting with their first factory fresh Astroliners. The fact that they had the PA upper deck configuration on the safety cards and not the stateroom config. is noteworthy. Seems they weren't fully on board with the stateroom plan. Also the F seats in zone C is another example of uncertainty. Both, as we know didn't last long into 1971.


Yeah I think the fact that the early safety card had the paa upper deck image is just because it was literally the paa plane's upper deck design when they leased it. So at least we know that much.

I just find it strange that they didn't document the upper deck of the initial astroliner and it gets me thinking about the details more and more.

They introduced the 747 coach lounge on May 2, 1971. It was advertised in the April 71 timetable and was when the plane officially became a luxuryliner and got the new first class lounge pictured below
Image
Image

Delta's first flight was October 25 1970 and included the penthouse in the sky plus a first class lounge on the other side of the upper deck (which I've only ever seen one photo of in a brochure and attached below).

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

The rare outside the penthouse lounge
Image


In theory AA was flying with the staterooms at this exact time. Between June 1970 and May 1971, which means it wasn't a delta exclusive!
 
Qantas59
Posts: 181
Joined: Sat May 04, 2013 4:51 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:38 pm

The postcard text when referring to the Luxuryliner zone B tables includes the phrase "or hold a business meeting". Perhaps a marketing replacement for the absence of the Astroliner stateroom? The text also refers to the "redecorated first class lounge", validating that something else came before (we knew that). The date of 2 May 71 being identified as the completion date to the Luxuryliner refit is of particulate interest. As I've posted earlier 10 of the 747-123s were delivered between Jun and Dec of '70. The remaining 6 were delivered between Feb and Jun of '71. Assuming only the first 10 were in the Astroliner configuration, that's still a lot of 747s to convert and a very time consuming project. Likely started several months before the Luxuryliners began to appear in advertising.
[photoid][photoid][/photoid][/photoid]/Users/jaytanguay/Desktop/Screen Shot 2016-10-27 at 9.30.09 AM.png
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:57 pm

Qantas59 wrote:
The postcard text when referring to the Luxuryliner zone B tables includes the phrase "or hold a business meeting". Perhaps a marketing replacement for the absence of the Astroliner stateroom? The text also refers to the "redecorated first class lounge", validating that something else came before (we knew that). The date of 2 May 71 being identified as the completion date to the Luxuryliner refit is of particulate interest. As I've posted earlier 10 of the 747-123s were delivered between Jun and Dec of '70. The remaining 6 were delivered between Feb and Jun of '71. Assuming only the first 10 were in the Astroliner configuration, that's still a lot of 747s to convert and a very time consuming project. Likely started several months before the Luxuryliners began to appear in advertising.


My thought is they did exactly that. Had 10 in the initial astroliner configuration with state rooms, then the following 6 were delivered with the luxuryliner updated lounges, and then the initial 10 were converted. If only there were some photos of the original upper deck somewhere..


EDIT: I also learned they leased two from Paa, and one was configured normal and the other had the larger first class.
Last edited by wernerga3 on Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
wernerga3
Topic Author
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: AA early 747 question

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:06 pm

jmdc861 wrote:
Did one of these first AA 747's fly from JFK to DFW as well ? I recall being on one but cannot remember if the year was 1970 or 1971 ?

Probably even with the state rooms!
Image

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos