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Polot
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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:32 pm

As I said in the deleted thread, at this point it would just make more sense to merge FlyDubai and Emirates. FlyDubai already has a full service hard product, at least on the Maxes. Unsure what their soft product is like but that obviously could be changed.
 
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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:34 pm

Polot wrote:
As I said in the deleted thread, at this point it would just make more sense to merge FlyDubai and Emirates. FlyDubai already has a full service hard product, at least on the Maxes. Unsure what their soft product is like but that obviously could be changed.


I concur. Was this not the point of the EK/FZ partnership?
 
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 2:52 pm

Jetport wrote:
Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.


I always thought about that as well, why re-paint the entire AC, rather than just remove/re-paint the title/logo etc.? what is the benefit of re-painting the entire AC unless its going back to Lease holder and its in the terms that the AC will need to be given back in all-whites...
 
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:03 pm

Do we know the fate of this specific frame yet? I know with the Air France one that was sent to Knock it was first sent to some other places in Germany for end-of-lease stuff and airframe works, while the two ex-SQ A380s that were sent to Tarbes never left and were scrapped there. Will this one see a similar fate?
 
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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:28 pm

I thought they were going to absorb Fly Dubai and their 737 fleet? Probably makes sense as opposed to ordering another type of aircraft.
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:35 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
One thing I do find interesting is that Emirates and Etihad seem willing to keep the A380 for a little longer (Emirates especially, much to the delight of Simple Flying), but virtually every other A380 operator outright wants to ground them for at least a while, if not forever. Part of me wonders that Emirates resuming A380 flights next month (instead of mothballing them like almost every other airline) has more to do with pride and prestige than anything.

It's a really mixed bag. AF took the opportunity to retire them all early, but they were already on the path to getting out of the A380s before CV19 struck. QF is sending all 12 of theirs to storage with no plan to return them for the next three years. QR has said something similar. Yet as you say EK is still a big supporter (but kinda has to be given how much money they have tied up in them) and LH has just said they will have 8 return eventually to MUC. I can see SQ and BA sticking with the types a bit longer, at least till the cost of running them overwhelms any upside to their continued operation.

filipinoavgeek wrote:
Do we know the fate of this specific frame yet? I know with the Air France one that was sent to Knock it was first sent to some other places in Germany for end-of-lease stuff and airframe works, while the two ex-SQ A380s that were sent to Tarbes never left and were scrapped there. Will this one see a similar fate?

Probably. It's hard to see an economic recovery strong enough to make another operator want to spend the money to acquire and refurbish the AF frames. Chances are the price of spares will drop as more frames head to the scrappers, so AF would be wise to get in early.
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Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:39 pm

Responding to Olle:
The lease companies are about to be burned by everyone. If the ME3 abide by the contracts, the lease companies will happily do business with them again on new contracts.

But the lease companies are in trouble. Indigo plans to return 120 A320CEO over 2 years, per contract. SpiceJet leased 738s on 2 year contracts expiring next year. This is right after Avianca and Jet failing dumped a huge number on the market. LATAM is returning aircraft in bankruptcy. Easyjet and others will return aircraft too. Then the MAX will flood the market, increasing the quantity of longer range narrowbodies displacing widebodies.

This means the lowest traunches of lease debt are now worthless. Investors won't be buying those traunches, so lease companies must adjust terms to raise funds.

There is nothing personal in other people's money. Some lease companies will fail, but the large ones will just adjust terms.

Too many post here without considering the sophisticated lease financing setup.

If the ME3 negotiate terms they honor, they will remain bluechip customers.

The issue for the leasing companies is the assets lost value, too few airlines will extend leases and circumstantial evidence has scrap values down a third. So there will be far less lease business.

You will also have airlines that traditionally didn't finance in that market. So the terms the ME3 receive will be worse, but so it will be for all airlines.

A rising tide lifts all boats. The tide went out and won't return for a bit. I see no reason the ME3 will ne singled out by leasing companies as their bonus is paid by placing other people's money.

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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:42 pm

The A321 seems like it would be the ideal NB at EK but I can't see how EK justifies buying a new fleet of aircraft right now or even in the new future when the have the 737 MAX fleet at FlyDubai. It would cost quite little to integrate I think. They even already have a flat-bed product. As other posters are saying it seems like a merger SQ/Silk Air style makes way more sense.

Addition: What is the FlyDubai fleet strategy anyway? Why do they have orders for 70 7M9s but also 50 7MJs? Seems a bit odd. The intended fleet of 130 7M8s also seems wildly excessive. 250 NBs out of Dubai? I could see EK taking part of the MAX fleet. Maybe 7MJs and 7M8s where more performance is needed but I can't see a market space for the full order. Could be wrong though.
Last edited by argentinevol98 on Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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chrisp390
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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:45 pm

This has been the goal all along and explains why EK pressured FZ so heavily into not acquiring the A321 in its last narrow body order.
 
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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:54 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
This has been the goal all along and explains why EK pressured FZ so heavily into not acquiring the A321 in its last narrow body order.


Do you have a source for this?
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:54 pm

airhansa wrote:
I still wonder why no airline has managed to make the A380 work as a low-cost cattle class plane? An all-economy seating A380 can host 853 passengers.

Around $30 per km in fuel.

ATH to SIN is about 5621km, making fuel costs around $168630. Divided by 853 it would mean $197 as a minimum ticket price. I didn't include staffing costs as a low cost country can provide cheaper staffing, but overall a ticket price lower than $300 doesn't seem that illogical.

For lower distance routes that are busy it's possible to have prices as lower than $50 in terms of fuel.

Though Emirates may not get away with it, surely India or a Eastern European country like Greece could?


I'd imagine it's because it's actually very hard to sell that many seats on any one particular flight. Suddenly dumping that much capacity anywhere is equivalent to flying 5x per day with an A320. I'm not sure that there are that many people that want to go between Athens and Singapore, even if it's cheap, because there are plenty of other more convenient options between Europe and Asia.
 
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 3:58 pm

There was a story today on Flightglobal that EK is returning an A-380 to service with flights to Europe.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/emi ... 65.article
 
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Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:00 pm

argentinevol98 wrote:
Addition: What is the FlyDubai fleet strategy anyway? Why do they have orders for 70 7M9s but also 50 7MJs? Seems a bit odd. The intended fleet of 130 7M8s also seems wildly excessive. 250 NBs out of Dubai? I could see EK taking part of the MAX fleet. Maybe 7MJs and 7M8s where more performance is needed but I can't see a market space for the full order. Could be wrong though.


I'm right there with you... no idea why 250-odd NBs are required in the first place at FZ.

EK will have over 250 WBs depending on the number of A380s they continue flying for the long-term.

And you can bet your sweet patoot that EK will do the crazy thing and add another 50-100 new NBs to the mix now...

Add that to the 250 NBs at FZ and there will be a distinct smell of new aircraft, overcapacity and regret when another global hiccup hits...
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:12 pm

ILNFlyer wrote:
There was a story today on Flightglobal that EK is returning an A-380 to service with flights to Europe.
https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/emi ... 65.article

IMO it kinda reads like a press release, lots of "what" but not much "why".
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Re: Emirates Retires First A380

Fri Jun 26, 2020 4:58 pm

MEA-707 wrote:
    Jetport wrote:
    Why did they repaint it white, seems like a waste of money? Even if this one is leased and the owner wants it white, you would think Emirates would split the savings of not having to repaint it with the owner and they would gladly accept since there is a 99.99% chance this aircraft gets scrapped.

    Many airlines' PR departments are really sensitive about this and take care their logos or colours are removed from non airworthy aircraft. Pictures of a halfly scrapped A380 in Emirates colours would give the impression the airlines fleet is rickety and obsolete, it will be used for memes, etc.


    Very interesting POV, however I think exactly the opposite. An airline scrapping an old plane should be considering that they are modernizing their fleet and acquiring new ones for the comfort of pax. This is exactly the message that they should send.

    Very interesting to see how the airlines around the world think about it.

     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:04 pm

    The article doesn’t say a word about a narrow body. The COO just said a smaller aircraft type. Even the A330neo falls into this category...

    Nothing new here.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:08 pm

    dfwking wrote:
    The article doesn’t say a word about a narrow body. The COO just said a smaller aircraft type. Even the A330neo falls into this category...

    Nothing new here.


    When did their last A332 leave the fleet?
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    behramjee
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:11 pm

    argentinevol98 wrote:
    The A321 seems like it would be the ideal NB at EK but I can't see how EK justifies buying a new fleet of aircraft right now or even in the new future when the have the 737 MAX fleet at FlyDubai. It would cost quite little to integrate I think. They even already have a flat-bed product. As other posters are saying it seems like a merger SQ/Silk Air style makes way more sense.


    EK can use the deposits it has with Airbus for its already ordered (but yet to be delivered) A380s + A359s to be diverted to A321Neos if need be and permitted by the manufacturer.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:14 pm

    dfwking wrote:
    The article doesn’t say a word about a narrow body. The COO just said a smaller aircraft type. Even the A330neo falls into this category...

    Nothing new here.

    Maybe, but in saying that the operation of exclusively wide-bodied aircraft is not sustainable in future tends to heavily suggest A330NEO's aren't on his mind.
     
    Opus99
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:20 pm

    dfwking wrote:
    The article doesn’t say a word about a narrow body. The COO just said a smaller aircraft type. Even the A330neo falls into this category...

    Nothing new here.

    Article was updated. It initially said Narrow-body in the first paragraph
     
    Exeiowa
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:20 pm

    They do not have to go out and acquire new builds right now, there will be plenty of gently used frames available now and into the near future which people would happily give up.
     
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    lightsaber
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:21 pm

    Polot wrote:
    As I said in the deleted thread, at this point it would just make more sense to merge FlyDubai and Emirates. FlyDubai already has a full service hard product, at least on the Maxes. Unsure what their soft product is like but that obviously could be changed.

    That sums it up. FlyDubai is the regional EK anyway.

    If they order A321xLRs too, so be it. I could hope A220s, but I consider that unlikely.

    Lightsaber

    late add:
    Exeiowa wrote:
    They do not have to go out and acquire new builds right now, there will be plenty of gently used frames available now and into the near future which people would happily give up.


    Thus great deals on new too. Used is last generation. I think EK could swing a deal
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:30 pm

    lightsaber wrote:
    Polot wrote:
    As I said in the deleted thread, at this point it would just make more sense to merge FlyDubai and Emirates. FlyDubai already has a full service hard product, at least on the Maxes. Unsure what their soft product is like but that obviously could be changed.

    That sums it up. FlyDubai is the regional EK anyway.

    If they order A321xLRs too, so be it. I could hope A220s, but I consider that unlikely.

    Lightsaber

    late add:
    Exeiowa wrote:
    They do not have to go out and acquire new builds right now, there will be plenty of gently used frames available now and into the near future which people would happily give up.


    Thus great deals on new too. Used is last generation. I think EK could swing a deal


    I was thinking like new frames, ones received and not put into service, already built not yet delivered and not needed, and ones less than a year old in service from troubled airlines, not the one dropping of the end of 12 year leases.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:31 pm

     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:41 pm

    Emirates can and will use Max jets with/from the Flydubai.

    No need for new order. And their won't be a new order.
     
    behramjee
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:46 pm

    A223 unfortunately is too small for EK's network needs but better suited for the likes of G9 if they had gone for a future A223 / A321Neo combo of ample quantities.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:50 pm

    lightsaber wrote:

    Thus great deals on new too. Used is last generation. I think EK could swing a deal


    They can by (like I posted earlier) using their deposits on the A380/A350 for the A321Neo too.

    Yes they wont take on used aircraft and would prefer new builds with their own signature on board product.
    Last edited by behramjee on Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 5:50 pm

    This would be Airbus' order to lose. With Boeing desperate for someone to regain trust in the MAX I could see Boeing potentially dumping some MAXs in order to secure the order and to show both shareholders and MAX customers that they should continue their trust in the MAX program.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:01 pm

    Insertnamehere wrote:
    This would be Airbus' order to lose. With Boeing desperate for someone to regain trust in the MAX I could see Boeing potentially dumping some MAXs in order to secure the order and to show both shareholders and MAX customers that they should continue their trust in the MAX program.


    What order?

    Says who?

    There is no orders. Any EK narrowbodies jets will be from the Flydubai order.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 6:13 pm

    I thought FlyDubai charges for food on short haul?
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:02 pm

    Ziyulu wrote:
    I thought FlyDubai charges for food on short haul?
    Yes and no. Depends on which website you booked at and what ticket type. EK passengers on an EK codeshare ticket get free meals.

    Look, in the end of the day it's not like there is a surplus of money and business worldwide is booming. The UAE has always been good at looking ahead and being bold. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't.

    EK needs the A350's and only a handful of A380's are yet to be delivered. I see EK talking about converting these remaining frames into A35K's or something. Then there's the mess with the 777X and MAX on the other side of the pond. EK has massively invested in the 777X and MAX. Remember the money for these frames comes from the same pocket aka stakeholder. Does flydubai need 225+ MAX's? Even halve that? Before Covid hit parking the current combined fleet during peak times was a challenge with aircraft waiting on taxiways for a stand. It will snow in winter in the UAE before DWC is up and running at a decent capacity.

    I foresee the combined stakeholder moving aircraft and options around between companies to fulfil needs, especially on the Boeing side. You typically get 1 B787 for 3 MAX's. Don't forget that flydubai already has 3 premium heavy 7M9's. Why? No other reason than to see if it they can make it worthwhile on the premium codeshare routes. The gap between 12 fully flatbed J class seats on the 7M8 and 42 on the 777 is too big. So they tried 16 J seats onto the MAX 9's. The gap's coming down. And yes they can (could?) fill those too as it's a really nice hard product. The soft product can be tailored further to EK's needs. What about the initial 50 7MJ's? I bet you the initial ones will be even more premium heavy. Why? EK codeshare. Unlikely the companies will merge. But orders and deliveries being shifted around is not too far fetched.

    The A321NEO ( and it's new derivatives) is more capable than the 7MJ. But do you always need max capability? Yes it gives a bit more flexibility but that's it. The 7M8 burns less fuel than the A320NEO, is lighter and costs less to operate. You can adapt your fleet usage to suit your network. In the end of the day the new narrowbody aircraft are very close in spec. What matters is what kind of deal you get from the OEM. Training, conversion, certification, maintenance support, guarantees, delivery slots etc etc.

    A few years back there were massive rumors about a merger. But business was booming and the business case just wasn't there. But everything has changed now due Covid. Name me a regional competitor that only operates widebodies...?
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:54 pm

    NB was not mentioned! Smaller aircraft was ie 787/330 . He also said a more involved tie up with FZ., did not say merge but close !
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:01 pm

    So does that mean Flydubai will be incorporated into Emirates?
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:18 pm

    So EK is becoming QR? QR flies to every major city in Eurasia including fromer CIS. I believe these markets only support 1 ME3 carrier.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:20 pm

    Polot wrote:
    As I said in the deleted thread, at this point it would just make more sense to merge FlyDubai and Emirates. FlyDubai already has a full service hard product, at least on the Maxes. Unsure what their soft product is like but that obviously could be changed.

    Over the last 4 years, both entities have resisted calls for a full merger.

    During this period, FZ have repeatedly sought to add small WB's to the fleet, with the result EK insisted on the demarcation EK=WB only, and FZ=NB only. At the time, that looked like a 'heads we win, tails you lose' strategy for EK. But not now.

    Merger seems like commonsense, but it you want to appropriately 'park' massive WB losses, and NB compensation, then FZ management will be fighting for continued separation, at least for now.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:55 pm

    FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
    Emirates can and will use Max jets with/from the Flydubai.

    No need for new order. And their won't be a new order.


    Yeah I think so as well. The MAX suits Emirates pretty well, Dubai is close enough to most destinations that the extra range of the A321LR/XLR are not needed. The MAX8 and also MAX9 with Aux Tank should cover all of Europe, most of Africa, all of South Asia including all Indian Ocean destinations as well as all the way to Thailand, most of China and most of Russia as well.
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:03 pm

    DLHAM wrote:
    The MAX suits Emirates pretty well, Dubai is close enough to most destinations that the extra range of the A321LR/XLR are not needed. The MAX8 and also MAX9 with Aux Tank should cover all of Europe, most of Africa, all of South Asia including all Indian Ocean destinations as well as all the way to Thailand, most of China and most of Russia as well.


    Let's hope somebody takes a good look at MAX performance charts for high temps.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:05 pm

    MIflyer12 wrote:
    Let's hope somebody takes a good look at MAX performance charts for high temps.


    Well given that they've already taken delivery and operated them out of DWC you would think that they're well aware of at least the 7M8 and 7M9's capabilities.
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 9:08 pm

    MIflyer12 wrote:
    DLHAM wrote:
    The MAX suits Emirates pretty well, Dubai is close enough to most destinations that the extra range of the A321LR/XLR are not needed. The MAX8 and also MAX9 with Aux Tank should cover all of Europe, most of Africa, all of South Asia including all Indian Ocean destinations as well as all the way to Thailand, most of China and most of Russia as well.


    Let's hope somebody takes a good look at MAX performance charts for high temps.


    I think they dont have to look at charts because they just have to ask their fellows at flyDubai as they already operated the MAX out of Dubai.
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:59 pm

    DLHAM wrote:
    FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
    Emirates can and will use Max jets with/from the Flydubai.

    No need for new order. And their won't be a new order.


    Yeah I think so as well. The MAX suits Emirates pretty well, Dubai is close enough to most destinations that the extra range of the A321LR/XLR are not needed. The MAX8 and also MAX9 with Aux Tank should cover all of Europe, most of Africa, all of South Asia including all Indian Ocean destinations as well as all the way to Thailand, most of China and most of Russia as well.


    I don't think so.

    The root of the issue is that capacity in the post-covid world is being evaluated. They'll need to find a way to rightsize capacity until demand recovers. The EK business model is built on the long haul, premium experience, high volume hub and spoke traffic. The 7M8/321s just doesn't fit those elements of the business model. I think the only thing that we might see is an interest in the 788 or perhaps 339 again.

    Slightly off topic, but does anyone get the impression that Al Redha is the one taking over the reins from Tim Clark? He seems to have been a lot more active in the media lately.
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:55 am

    If the FZ 737 fleet does not work, there is always the EY fleet with plenty of A330/787 should a merger happen
     
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    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:49 am

    Airlinerdude wrote:

    I don't think so.

    The root of the issue is that capacity in the post-covid world is being evaluated. They'll need to find a way to rightsize capacity until demand recovers. The EK business model is built on the long haul, premium experience, high volume hub and spoke traffic. The 7M8/321s just doesn't fit those elements of the business model. I think the only thing that we might see is an interest in the 788 or perhaps 339 again.


    The Flydubai not getting all 200 maxes in one go!

    Capacity not the issues. Also, Boeing will not be high production rates of max too.

    Max fits well for fz routes and will work just fine for the ek routes where 777 and 7879 are too bigs.

    You clearly understandings the overlap at fz top end and ek low end for business model.
     
    vegas005
    Posts: 316
    Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 12:25 am

    Re: Rumour: Emirates to decommission 40% of A380 fleet

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:07 am

    The Emirates A380 coach configuration is about as good as it gets. We flew 42k miles last summer with them and every flight was great. Sad times to see them go, but I understand the heavy maintenance costs are astronomical. I would have thought one of the bean counters would have factored in the long term maintenance costs before buying 250+ aircraft .... but maybe the accounting rules are different when there is an unlimited supply of cash ...
     
    Scotron12
    Posts: 496
    Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:13 pm

    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:13 am

    FrenchPotatoEye wrote:
    Airlinerdude wrote:

    I don't think so.

    The root of the issue is that capacity in the post-covid world is being evaluated. They'll need to find a way to rightsize capacity until demand recovers. The EK business model is built on the long haul, premium experience, high volume hub and spoke traffic. The 7M8/321s just doesn't fit those elements of the business model. I think the only thing that we might see is an interest in the 788 or perhaps 339 again.


    The Flydubai not getting all 200 maxes in one go!

    Capacity not the issues. Also, Boeing will not be high production rates of max too.

    Max fits well for fz routes and will work just fine for the ek routes where 777 and 7879 are too bigs.

    You clearly understandings the overlap at fz top end and ek low end for business model.



    FlyDubai does not need anywhere near 200 B737s! In a way they are fortunate that because of Covid, they can reduce their orders. Even if normal traffic resumed tomorrow, they would still have ordered too many.

    If EK do order single aisle aircraft, which aircraft would they replace in their all WB fleet?
     
    jghealey
    Posts: 242
    Joined: Fri May 11, 2018 5:46 pm

    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:41 am

    As others have said the article literally doesn't even mention anything to do with narrowbodies. You could even interpret it as them referring to the already ordered A350s and 787s which are already substantially smaller than A380/B777.

    There is no sense in merging Flydubai and Emirates other than increased brand recognition on the part of Flydubai. Firstly the narrow body experience is far less premium and has a substantially different product to EK, while the 737NGs have quite an outdated product. Flydubai will likely also have vastly lower operational costs, an advantage that a merged Flydubai-Emirates would not benefit from. The same argument goes for Emirates operating its own narrowbodies, Flydubai will always have lower costs.

    The a321 would have been the perfect aircraft for Flydubai imo, but I'm sure the 737 will serve them almost as well. Covid19 along with the MAX grounding will probably allow them to reduce their order cos there is no way they can find a use for 200 more 737s. As others have said QR has already saturated the market for new destinations and their narrowbody fleet isnt even more than 50 planes.
     
    Jomar777
    Posts: 556
    Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 8:45 am

    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:08 am

    Firstly, to kill off and avoid this thread being hijacked: NO A220 of any form. Does not work for them.

    Secondly, and to the point, this has been always what I thought that makes Qatar Airways Fleet better than EK. To have small aircraft to make those GCCs hops of one hour or so rather than use an A380 to fly DXM-MCT sometimes. Such a waste.

    The article does not specifically mentions NB but I see EK considering the A321 (maybe even the XLR for thin routes where cargo is not high on agenda - remember: they do have a separate cargo network anyway). It also opens the door for the B788 and A338 if they go for a WB option.

    What they could do also, given the declaration of a more closer partnership with FZ, is to actually migrate short haul services to them and not touch on their fleet policy. This would lead to a leaner EK still operating WBs but with less short haul flights which would then be transferred to FZ potentially even to work with them on feeder services within the MENA region for example.
     
    oschkosch
    Posts: 590
    Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:41 pm

    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:45 am

    I was thinking about various EK routes to India, e.g. BOM or DEL where a A321NEO would make sense. But then again, they normally use WB aircraft on these routes as they are usually (pre C-19) packed.
    :stirthepot: :airplane: "This airplane is designed by clowns, who in turn are supervised by monkeys" :airplane: :stirthepot:
     
    klwright69
    Posts: 2710
    Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:45 am

    I remember Tower Air was the all 747 airline. EK is an all widebody airline. Seems like too much for this day and age.

    QR could fly to smaller Saudi cities like Qassim and Abha.
    Fly Dubai also went to Tabuk and Jizan.

    Seems like there is room for a narrowbody gauge.
     
    User avatar
    aemoreira1981
    Posts: 3585
    Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

    Re: Official: Emirates to consider adding narrow body aircraft

    Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:37 am

    I don't see a merger. I do see more synergies between EK and FZ though, where EK shrinks a lot and only operates more premium destinations, with FZ taking over thinner ones. That said, I can't see FZ maintaining the B38M/B39M in the fleet in the future unless Boeing fixes that problem by year's end. FZ could seek to acquire a lot of late-model A321s though and then order the A321neo and A321XLR. (I don't say the A321LR because that doesn't really handle belly cargo as well as the A321neo with one or two ACTs.) However, the A321 could allow for a 171 seat configuration with a lie-flat J (similar to B6, TP, EI, and SK), a small Y+, and then 31" Y...basically using the TP A321LR configuration. One could cut some destinations down from 8 flight attendants to 4.

    Now, on routes to India, and likely also Germany (maximum 4 destinations allowed), I suspect that restrictive bilaterals are why EK flies wide-bodies there. However, a lot of Africa could be down-gauged to FZ.
     
    Gael23
    Posts: 9
    Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:18 pm

    Emirates Orders

    Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:08 pm

    Have one of the recent EK orders scheduled for SPscheduled for delivery in the next few years been cancelled due to Covid 19?

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