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UA857
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Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:54 pm

Hi I have quick question does the US3 AA, DL and UA still have non-ETOPS widebodies or all widebodies ETOPS equipped?
 
USAirALB
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:08 pm

I don't think they have had non-ETOPS widebodies in years.

DL's now retired domestic 763s had ETOPS as they were used for Hawaii flights. AA's Domestic 3-Cabin 762s also had ETOPS as they were occasionally used as Hawaii-subs ex LAX. UA domestic HD 763s/772s also were used for Hawaii and had ETOPS. The 763s were eventually converted to international aircraft and the domestic HD 772s were fitted with lie flats seats in F and are now used for transcons, Hawaii, and leisure Europe.

Given that the 752s are gone, the only ETOPS birds at AA are the A321H, A321 Neo, 772, 787, and 77W.

United has the most ETOPS variety. I think most 737s are ETOPS, as are the 752s/753s and then all wide bodies. I can't remember if the 739s have ETOPS at DL.
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Boeing757100
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:19 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I don't think they have had non-ETOPS widebodies in years.

DL's now retired domestic 763s had ETOPS as they were used for Hawaii flights. AA's Domestic 3-Cabin 762s also had ETOPS as they were occasionally used as Hawaii-subs ex LAX. UA domestic HD 763s/772s also were used for Hawaii and had ETOPS. The 763s were eventually converted to international aircraft and the domestic HD 772s were fitted with lie flats seats in F and are now used for transcons, Hawaii, and leisure Europe.

Given that the 752s are gone, the only ETOPS birds at AA are the A321H, A321 Neo, 772, 787, and 77W.

United has the most ETOPS variety. I think most 737s are ETOPS, as are the 752s/753s and then all wide bodies. I can't remember if the 739s have ETOPS at DL.


Yeah, the domestic 757/767/777 at all 3 most likely had etops. The big question here is whether DL 739s have it. I think they replaced the 763 Hawaii so maybe?
 
UA857
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:19 pm

What was the US3's last non-ETOPS widebody?
 
United1
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:21 pm

UA857 wrote:
Hi I have quick question does the US3 AA, DL and UA still have non-ETOPS widebodies or all widebodies ETOPS equipped?


All of UAs two engine wide bodies have been ETOPS since they retired the PW powered 762's back in the early 2000's.

Currently all Boeing aircraft in UAs fleet are ETOPS equipped (excepting the PW 752s which are not likely to return to service.) None of the Airbus aircraft are ETOPS certified but some of the A320s are overwater equipped meaning they have life rafts ect.
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SuseJ772
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:21 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
I don't think they have had non-ETOPS widebodies in years.

DL's now retired domestic 763s had ETOPS as they were used for Hawaii flights. AA's Domestic 3-Cabin 762s also had ETOPS as they were occasionally used as Hawaii-subs ex LAX. UA domestic HD 763s/772s also were used for Hawaii and had ETOPS. The 763s were eventually converted to international aircraft and the domestic HD 772s were fitted with lie flats seats in F and are now used for transcons, Hawaii, and leisure Europe.

Given that the 752s are gone, the only ETOPS birds at AA are the A321H, A321 Neo, 772, 787, and 77W.

United has the most ETOPS variety. I think most 737s are ETOPS, as are the 752s/753s and then all wide bodies. I can't remember if the 739s have ETOPS at DL.


Yeah, the domestic 757/767/777 at all 3 most likely had etops. The big question here is whether DL 739s have it. I think they replaced the 763 Hawaii so maybe?


I *think* some 739ER do and some don’t. I believe there is an ETOPS painted on or around the front gear door for those that do. You can also tell in the cabin if there is the life raft bin on the ceiling.
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USAirALB
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:22 pm

United1 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Hi I have quick question does the US3 AA, DL and UA still have non-ETOPS widebodies or all widebodies ETOPS equipped?


All of UAs two engine wide bodies have been ETOPS since they retired the PW powered 762's back in the early 2000's.

Currently all Boeing aircraft in UAs fleet are ETOPS equipped (excepting the PW 752s which are not likely to return to service.) None of the Airbus aircraft are ETOPS certified but some of the A320s are overwater equipped meaning they have life rafts ect.

I know they recently got a number of second-hand 73Gs from a number of operators the past couple of years. Did they convert those to ETOPs as well?
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United1
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:26 pm

UA857 wrote:
What was the US3's last non-ETOPS widebody?


DLs would have been their GE powered non-ER 763's

AA MD-11 or A300...the MD-11 never needed ETOPS of course but I'm not sure if all of their A300s were ETOPS.

UA would have been their 744s which also didn't need ETOPS but UAs last non-ETOPS twin jet would have been their PW 762's. Some of those 762s were ETOPS certified but not all of them were.
Last edited by United1 on Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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United1
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:28 pm

USAirALB wrote:
United1 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Hi I have quick question does the US3 AA, DL and UA still have non-ETOPS widebodies or all widebodies ETOPS equipped?


All of UAs two engine wide bodies have been ETOPS since they retired the PW powered 762's back in the early 2000's.

Currently all Boeing aircraft in UAs fleet are ETOPS equipped (excepting the PW 752s which are not likely to return to service.) None of the Airbus aircraft are ETOPS certified but some of the A320s are overwater equipped meaning they have life rafts ect.

I know they recently got a number of second-hand 73Gs from a number of operators the past couple of years. Did they convert those to ETOPs as well?


The 4 exCOPA ones are ETOPS it remains to be seen what they do with the exWN ones. None of those have entered the fleet yet...they are either in induction or stored.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
deltairlines
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:13 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I can't remember if the 739s have ETOPS at DL.


There's a subset of 739s at DL that have ETOPS, but the majority do not.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:53 pm

Boeing757100 wrote:
Yeah, the domestic 757/767/777 at all 3 most likely had etops. The big question here is whether DL 739s have it. I think they replaced the 763 Hawaii so maybe?

I know UA had an extensive fleet of PW 757-200s that didn't have ETOPS - I would assume same goes for DL and AA (well historically for both as well).

Michael
 
United1
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:05 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Boeing757100 wrote:
Yeah, the domestic 757/767/777 at all 3 most likely had etops. The big question here is whether DL 739s have it. I think they replaced the 763 Hawaii so maybe?

I know UA had an extensive fleet of PW 757-200s that didn't have ETOPS - I would assume same goes for DL and AA (well historically for both as well).

Michael


IIRC only 16 of the 98 UA PW powered 752s had ETOPS for Hawaii-Mainland routes. There were a few overwater equipped 752s for flights to the Caribbean and from Florida to CA (so they could cut across the Gulf of Mexico.). Most UA routes for the 752 did not require going overwater so no need for ETOPS.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:20 am

DL has all widebodies currently ETOPS.

NW was super late to the ETOPS game with their first ETOPS aircraft being the A333 and the B753 in 2003. A portion of the later build 757s 5600s were ETOPS capable and eventually made full ETOPS in 2007 for the 75A program to put on TATL.

The 75H, 75G, 75S -200 subfleets are ETOPS. The 75D are not.

The 753 are ETOPS

A small sub fleet of 739 was made ETOPS for Hawaii flying but that didn’t last too long. Unclear if they still have kept all of them in the ETOPS program or let some of them lapse.
 
n7371f
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:17 am

3876-3895 remain ETOPS. 3853-3875 were decommissioned from ETOPS.

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
DL has all widebodies currently ETOPS.

NW was super late to the ETOPS game with their first ETOPS aircraft being the A333 and the B753 in 2003. A portion of the later build 757s 5600s were ETOPS capable and eventually made full ETOPS in 2007 for the 75A program to put on TATL.

The 75H, 75G, 75S -200 subfleets are ETOPS. The 75D are not.

The 753 are ETOPS

A small sub fleet of 739 was made ETOPS for Hawaii flying but that didn’t last too long. Unclear if they still have kept all of them in the ETOPS program or let some of them lapse.
 
strfyr51
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:25 am

UA857 wrote:
What was the US3's last non-ETOPS widebody?

At united? It was the DC-10-10 in the 34XX nose numbers the 33XX and 35XX nose numbers flew overwater to Hawaii. the DC10-30's were all internationally equipped. all the later widebodies came or were converted to Overwater and ETOPS equipment
 
UA857
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:27 am

strfyr51 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
What was the US3's last non-ETOPS widebody?

At united? It was the DC-10-10 in the 34XX nose numbers the 33XX and 35XX nose numbers flew overwater to Hawaii. the DC10-30's were all internationally equipped. all the later widebodies came or were converted to Overwater and ETOPS equipment


I´m talking about widebody twinjets (e.g. A300, 762, etc).
 
UA444
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:02 am

United1 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Hi I have quick question does the US3 AA, DL and UA still have non-ETOPS widebodies or all widebodies ETOPS equipped?


All of UAs two engine wide bodies have been ETOPS since they retired the PW powered 762's back in the early 2000's.

Currently all Boeing aircraft in UAs fleet are ETOPS equipped (excepting the PW 752s which are not likely to return to service.) None of the Airbus aircraft are ETOPS certified but some of the A320s are overwater equipped meaning they have life rafts ect.

The UA 762s were ETOPS rated. I've been on several TATL flights on them. They flew TATL until 1994 or 1995. And 7 of the ps 752s are ETOPS rated. (N546UA, N589-598UA, skip 591-594),
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:49 am

SuseJ772 wrote:
I *think* some 739ER do and some don’t. I believe there is an ETOPS painted on or around the front gear door for those that do. You can also tell in the cabin if there is the life raft bin on the ceiling.

Life raft has nothing to do with whether aircraft is ETOPS or not, just whether it's overwater equipped.
The two are not the same, and the latter is not always needed for the former.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:41 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
NW was super late to the ETOPS game with their first ETOPS aircraft being the A333 and the B753 in 2003. A portion of the later build 757s 5600s were ETOPS capable and eventually made full ETOPS in 2007 for the 75A program to put on TATL.


Why worry about ETOPS twins when you're flying trijets and quads? It was a product of gross underinvestment in fleet from the Checchi era. NW had been flying 747s and DC-10s forever - the latter long into the 2000s, even after the A330s started arriving. They were also flying 727s well into the A320/757 eras.

As for domestic - US49, anyway - routes that could have used non-ETOPS widebodies: they really didn't have the route system to demand 762/763s (nor A300s). DTW and MSP were (are) good for connections but U.S. domestic hubs require frequency, and it's not as if MSP/DTW had the traffic volumes to support 8x widebodies a day on a dozen routes. They had nothing remotely comparable to NYC-LAX, nor even ATL-LAX.
 
sdh9
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:57 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
SuseJ772 wrote:
I *think* some 739ER do and some don’t. I believe there is an ETOPS painted on or around the front gear door for those that do. You can also tell in the cabin if there is the life raft bin on the ceiling.

Life raft has nothing to do with whether aircraft is ETOPS or not, just whether it's overwater equipped.
The two are not the same, and the latter is not always needed for the former.


Slightly pedantic, given the chances of a UA 739ER encountering ETOPS over Central Arkansas are quite low.

The Domestic UA 737 ETOPS is for Hawaii first and as a backup plan for the WATRS routes if Bermuda were to go out of service for some reason. Guam, of course, utilizes ETOPS a bit more. All of the UA 737 fleet was ETOPS and overwater certified, at least pre-pandemic.
 
United1
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:08 pm

UA444 wrote:
United1 wrote:
UA857 wrote:
Hi I have quick question does the US3 AA, DL and UA still have non-ETOPS widebodies or all widebodies ETOPS equipped?


All of UAs two engine wide bodies have been ETOPS since they retired the PW powered 762's back in the early 2000's.

Currently all Boeing aircraft in UAs fleet are ETOPS equipped (excepting the PW 752s which are not likely to return to service.) None of the Airbus aircraft are ETOPS certified but some of the A320s are overwater equipped meaning they have life rafts ect.

The UA 762s were ETOPS rated. I've been on several TATL flights on them. They flew TATL until 1994 or 1995. And 7 of the ps 752s are ETOPS rated. (N546UA, N589-598UA, skip 591-594),


Some of UAs PW powered 762's were ETOPS rated, not all of them. A number of them were delivered in a domestic configuration and then converted for transcon service. They never left the continental US. Those were still in the fleet up until they were retired in the early 2000's.

While technically six of the of the PW powered 752's are ETOPS equipped I don't think UA kept up with that certification. BTW 546 is retired.
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UA444
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:49 pm

United1 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
United1 wrote:

All of UAs two engine wide bodies have been ETOPS since they retired the PW powered 762's back in the early 2000's.

Currently all Boeing aircraft in UAs fleet are ETOPS equipped (excepting the PW 752s which are not likely to return to service.) None of the Airbus aircraft are ETOPS certified but some of the A320s are overwater equipped meaning they have life rafts ect.

The UA 762s were ETOPS rated. I've been on several TATL flights on them. They flew TATL until 1994 or 1995. And 7 of the ps 752s are ETOPS rated. (N546UA, N589-598UA, skip 591-594),


Some of UAs PW powered 762's were ETOPS rated, not all of them. A number of them were delivered in a domestic configuration and then converted for transcon service. They never left the continental US. Those were still in the fleet up until they were retired in the early 2000's.

While technically six of the of the PW powered 752's are ETOPS equipped I don't think UA kept up with that certification. BTW 546 is retired.

One of the ETOPS 757s flew on a substitution flight to Hawaii a year or two ago. N590UA or N596UA I think. Plus, they all still had ETOPS on the nose gear door. Yes, I forgot N546UA was retired.
 
sdh9
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:31 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
sdh9 wrote:
Also, from the pilot's perspective, painting "ETOPS" by the nose gear has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the aircraft is ETOPS-approved.

I beg to differ. If the Aircraft is equipped for ETOPS, Maintained Per ETOPS. And? Has the required Maintenance and checks Prior to going ETOPS? Then it's ETOPS! You don't just paint ETOPS on the nose and that's it! there is a damn Lot that goes into making and Keeping he airplane ETOPS. Which includes The ETOPS equipment, and Certified Parts to maintain it AS ETOPS. as of right now? It's pretty easy to BUY airplanes out of the Factory ETOPS Equipped? It's the ongoing Maintenance that keeps them ETOPS ready.
there ARE no ETOPS Airplanes that are NOT overwater ready. If you remove the survival gear? The Airplane is no longer ETOPS equipped is it? Door slides are not all slide Rafts are they? NO! flotation gear is more than a seat cushion isn't it? ETOPS even extends to how toy maintain your Engines and the In Flight Shutdown Rate that must be monitored by the operating Company.. You make it seem like it's just a Name or placard slapped on the side of the fuselage. Well? It's a damn sight more than that so you might want to acknowledge that as well. And Yes! Not all overwater equipped airplanes can fly ETOPS,though ALL ETOPS equipped airplanes CAN fly Overwater!


We are saying the same thing. If the aircraft is operated by a carrier that has the appropriate OpSpec, is maintained under the required program, all parties involved are current on their training, the ETOPS PDSC is completed in the required time, etc. then that is more important than a placard on the nose. You can even defer ETOPS and the placard on nose stays.
 
United1
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Re: Do AA, DL and UA Still have non-ETOPS Widebodies?

Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:22 am

UA444 wrote:
United1 wrote:
UA444 wrote:
The UA 762s were ETOPS rated. I've been on several TATL flights on them. They flew TATL until 1994 or 1995. And 7 of the ps 752s are ETOPS rated. (N546UA, N589-598UA, skip 591-594),


Some of UAs PW powered 762's were ETOPS rated, not all of them. A number of them were delivered in a domestic configuration and then converted for transcon service. They never left the continental US. Those were still in the fleet up until they were retired in the early 2000's.

While technically six of the of the PW powered 752's are ETOPS equipped I don't think UA kept up with that certification. BTW 546 is retired.

One of the ETOPS 757s flew on a substitution flight to Hawaii a year or two ago. N590UA or N596UA I think. Plus, they all still had ETOPS on the nose gear door. Yes, I forgot N546UA was retired.


Fair enough if those six still have their ETOPS rating. It's almost a moot point as none of the PW powered 752s are likely to return to service.
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