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zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:55 am

myki wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Ellofiend wrote:
Does anyone know why the past two CX flights ex-ADL are originating in SYD? The first one was on the 12th (B77W) and the second one was today (A35K)

It could be freight import/export or it could be a way to distribute arriving passengers in each port given the limits that apply now in each state.

Makes sense to do a milk-run ... not sure operationally and financially how that works ... but with only 30 pax per port, drop off 30 in SYD, 30 in ADL, well now you can take 60 per flight. I see that QR are doing a version of this with DOH-BNE-AKL so they could, potentially, have a full aircraft on the DOH-BNE leg, 30 pax disembark, then your almost-full plane carries on for the BNE-AKL sector.


New Zealand is currently managing arrivals per week, it was around 1000/week, at this stage.

Hardly think the QR flight would be allowed more than 50 passengers on BNE-AKL.

What it does do, is prep an dirty Tasman flight for passengers transiting via Australia to New Zealand. Ahead of the so called Tasman Bubble flights starting in the next couple of months.

Which would prohibit passengers from non clean zones boarding standard Tasman flights.
 
Foopz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:09 pm

Foopz wrote:
OM7183 ULN-SGN-PER 1300 Mon 20/07 / OM7184 PER-SGN-ULN 1000 - Tues 21/07 - B738 Scheduled


This flight is going ahead as per the proposed schedule using JU-1015. First (and likely only) time Australia will see a MIAT B738!
 
soyuz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:42 am

VH-EBL has landed in BNE at this time. Flight QF6121, Inbound from storage at AVV. First QF 332 movement I’ve seen in months.
 
soyuz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:54 am

Two Cebu Pacific A330-300s as well as six A321 currently inbound to ASP for storage.
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:06 am

soyuz wrote:
VH-EBL has landed in BNE at this time. Flight QF6121, Inbound from storage at AVV. First QF 332 movement I’ve seen in months.

Over the next few weeks you’ll see a number of the AVV stored A330’s ferried to SYD, MEL & BNE. I heard it through the grapevine AVV conditions are terrible for short to long term storage.


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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:17 am

soyuz wrote:
Two Cebu Pacific A330-300s as well as six A321 currently inbound to ASP for storage.


Make that 7 A321’s and there is a A321neo on the way to pick all crew up. According to the following the aircraft will be stored at ASP indefinitely

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 9167342396
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tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:28 am

EK413 wrote:
soyuz wrote:
VH-EBL has landed in BNE at this time. Flight QF6121, Inbound from storage at AVV. First QF 332 movement I’ve seen in months.

Over the next few weeks you’ll see a number of the AVV stored A330’s ferried to SYD, MEL & BNE. I heard it through the grapevine AVV conditions are terrible for short to long term storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is close to the sea so definitely not a good option for long term storage but then again neither are BNE or SYD.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:46 am

EK413 wrote:
soyuz wrote:
VH-EBL has landed in BNE at this time. Flight QF6121, Inbound from storage at AVV. First QF 332 movement I’ve seen in months.

Over the next few weeks you’ll see a number of the AVV stored A330’s ferried to SYD, MEL & BNE. I heard it through the grapevine AVV conditions are terrible for short to long term storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn't be surprised given the amount of rain and humidity Melbourne typically has during the winter

Michael
 
IndianicWorld
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:06 am

tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
soyuz wrote:
VH-EBL has landed in BNE at this time. Flight QF6121, Inbound from storage at AVV. First QF 332 movement I’ve seen in months.

Over the next few weeks you’ll see a number of the AVV stored A330’s ferried to SYD, MEL & BNE. I heard it through the grapevine AVV conditions are terrible for short to long term storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is close to the sea so definitely not a good option for long term storage but then again neither are BNE or SYD.


Agree. The best options are places like ASP, but at least AVV served a purpose for a while.

Given the spread of cases in NSW lately, it’s concerning to think how long the effects on business and travel will be. Having the 2 largest states affected by COVID pretty much slams the door on any real robust recovery for some time to come.
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:58 am

IndianicWorld wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
Over the next few weeks you’ll see a number of the AVV stored A330’s ferried to SYD, MEL & BNE. I heard it through the grapevine AVV conditions are terrible for short to long term storage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is close to the sea so definitely not a good option for long term storage but then again neither are BNE or SYD.


Agree. The best options are places like ASP, but at least AVV served a purpose for a while.

Given the spread of cases in NSW lately, it’s concerning to think how long the effects on business and travel will be. Having the 2 largest states affected by COVID pretty much slams the door on any real robust recovery for some time to come.

Even ASP isn’t ideal location for long term hence QF opted to go with VCV for the A380 fleet.
I understand our airports probably not ideal, however QF have engineers at SYD,MEL & BNE.

The conditions are perfect at VCV, dry air, QF engineers within 1.5-2 hr driving distance plus a long term storage firm will maintain the fleet during their stay at VCV.


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Last edited by EK413 on Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
grh
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:01 am

QF A380 Fleet Status

OQA VCV 12/07
OQB LAX 16/03
OQC SYD 01/04
OQD AUH 07/03
OQE VCV 06/07
OQF VCV 15/07
OQG DRS 02/02
OQH VCV 13/07
OQI DRS 23/03
OQJ VCV 07/07
OQK MEL 02/04
OQL VCV 18/07
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:42 am

EK413 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
It is close to the sea so definitely not a good option for long term storage but then again neither are BNE or SYD.


Agree. The best options are places like ASP, but at least AVV served a purpose for a while.

Given the spread of cases in NSW lately, it’s concerning to think how long the effects on business and travel will be. Having the 2 largest states affected by COVID pretty much slams the door on any real robust recovery for some time to come.

Even ASP isn’t ideal location for long term hence QF opted to go with VCV for the A380 fleet.
I understand our airports probably not ideal, however QF have engineers at SYD,MEL & BNE.

The conditions are perfect at VCV, dry air, QF engineers within 1.5-2 hr driving distance plus a long term storage firm will maintain the fleet during their stay at VCV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With suspension of A380 services for the next few years, it is unlikely there will be any QF A380 engineers retained at LAX. ASP and VCV both supply maintenance engineers to keep aircraft properly during long-term parking. ASP was not an option for QF as SQ had already taken all the heavy positions for its parked A380s and Scoot 787s and 777s.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
qf2048
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:14 am

First Qlink flight SYD-OAG, QF2015, operated today by a Dash 8-200 VH-TQG. 29 PAX on board.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
LTEN11
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:09 am

tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

Agree. The best options are places like ASP, but at least AVV served a purpose for a while.

Given the spread of cases in NSW lately, it’s concerning to think how long the effects on business and travel will be. Having the 2 largest states affected by COVID pretty much slams the door on any real robust recovery for some time to come.

Even ASP isn’t ideal location for long term hence QF opted to go with VCV for the A380 fleet.
I understand our airports probably not ideal, however QF have engineers at SYD,MEL & BNE.

The conditions are perfect at VCV, dry air, QF engineers within 1.5-2 hr driving distance plus a long term storage firm will maintain the fleet during their stay at VCV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With suspension of A380 services for the next few years, it is unlikely there will be any QF A380 engineers retained at LAX. ASP and VCV both supply maintenance engineers to keep aircraft properly during long-term parking. ASP was not an option for QF as SQ had already taken all the heavy positions for its parked A380s and Scoot 787s and 777s.


Take note of reply 257.

While the SIA group have taken up a fair chunk of space at ASP, there is obviously enough space for Cebu Pacific to put 9 aircraft there. QF are using VCV as they are looking at long term storage, VCV still has plenty of space for them. ASP and SIA, especially for their 380's, would be more likely be seen as short to medium term storage, I would think that SIA are more likely to put their 380's back into service sooner than QF, if QF do at all, which I personally seriously doubt.
 
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EK413
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:15 am

tullamarine wrote:
EK413 wrote:
IndianicWorld wrote:

Agree. The best options are places like ASP, but at least AVV served a purpose for a while.

Given the spread of cases in NSW lately, it’s concerning to think how long the effects on business and travel will be. Having the 2 largest states affected by COVID pretty much slams the door on any real robust recovery for some time to come.

Even ASP isn’t ideal location for long term hence QF opted to go with VCV for the A380 fleet.
I understand our airports probably not ideal, however QF have engineers at SYD,MEL & BNE.

The conditions are perfect at VCV, dry air, QF engineers within 1.5-2 hr driving distance plus a long term storage firm will maintain the fleet during their stay at VCV.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With suspension of A380 services for the next few years, it is unlikely there will be any QF A380 engineers retained at LAX. ASP and VCV both supply maintenance engineers to keep aircraft properly during long-term parking. ASP was not an option for QF as SQ had already taken all the heavy positions for its parked A380s and Scoot 787s and 777s.


I understand QF A380 services are suspended for the next 2-3 years & beyond. ASP wasn’t even considered as the conditions aren’t as ideal as VCV. In addition to this I also know they both provide their own maintenance engineers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
ArtV
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:32 am

Well this is going to get messy.

Virgin Administrations won't let the bondholders rival bid be voted on at the Creditors meeting in late August - and only wish to allow creditors to approve the Bain deal, as Bain has already been pumping in the cash.
This is despite the Federal Court deciding that the bondholders have a right to present an alternative proposal for vote at a creditors meeting
source: https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... bid-84935/

I can see both sides - the Administrator has already backed a horse in the race, and taken pat of the cash (and their personal, although indemnified, liability as a result), and the general rule that creditors get to decide and vote on Administration decisions - and although the administrator may recommend a preferred proposal, the creditors are to decide.
 
FlyingHonu001
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:57 pm

It might be a while before we can see QF anywhere overseas... :?

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... cellations
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:22 am

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... r-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.
 
soyuz
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:32 am

QF A380 VH-OQK en route MEL-LAX as QF 6001. That leaves one last QF A380 on Aussie soil - OQC in Sydney.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:51 am

xiaotung wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-star-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.

Not for anytime soon when VA has to rely on the $125m injection from Bain to survive.

Alliance membership fee is also said to be north of $60m so it's quite a substantial amount to invest in in any case. Heck you could buy 3 new 738s with the amount!

Michael
 
xiaotung
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:05 am

eamondzhang wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-star-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.

Not for anytime soon when VA has to rely on the $125m injection from Bain to survive.

Alliance membership fee is also said to be north of $60m so it's quite a substantial amount to invest in in any case. Heck you could buy 3 new 738s with the amount!

Michael


Star Alliance a while ago has changed membership structure to be based on revenue I think so VA would be paying nowhere near what UA, LH, SQ, etc. are paying. And the money would be much better spent than paying royalty to Richard Brandson.
 
jrfspa320
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:09 am

AFR reported today that PER had become the busiest airport in the country!
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:24 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
AFR reported today that PER had become the busiest airport in the country!


Quite frankly it would be a surprise if it wasn't. FIFO is the only travel that hasn't dropped off a cliff.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
zkncj
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:26 am

xiaotung wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-star-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.


Joining an global alliance in the next year or two would be an total waste of money (until the boarders are open).

VA2.0 would be far better off, trying to re-patch it’s relationship with NZ once the Tasman Bubble does happen.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:29 am

xiaotung wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-star-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.

Not for anytime soon when VA has to rely on the $125m injection from Bain to survive.

Alliance membership fee is also said to be north of $60m so it's quite a substantial amount to invest in in any case. Heck you could buy 3 new 738s with the amount!

Michael


Star Alliance a while ago has changed membership structure to be based on revenue I think so VA would be paying nowhere near what UA, LH, SQ, etc. are paying. And the money would be much better spent than paying royalty to Richard Brandson.


In addition, Bain would be considering what will maximise their return on investment. Previous sentimental partnerships/ownerships are out the window as Bain woud be doing whats best for their investment, not their customers.

Example, if it means continuing the hodge-podge partnerships in a "horses for courses" for each region, then that's their decision. Bain would have very little ties to VA's previous group of misfit owners.

If it means no Star Alliance despite the numerous cries over the years, then it'll likely be the case for the foreseeable future.
 
DavidByrne
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:27 am

SCFlyer wrote:
If it means no Star Alliance despite the numerous cries over the years, then it'll likely be the case for the foreseeable future.

I think that the advantages of alliance memberships have diminished over the years, and I'd be surprised if VA did join *A. More likely they will do what NZ has done. Even as a *A member, NZ has actively pursued relationships with individual carriers that are not part of *A where there is a mutual benefit. One of QF's principal relationships is with EK, also outside One World. And, of course, with NZ itself for domestic travel in New Zealand.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:34 am

zkncj wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-star-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.


Joining an global alliance in the next year or two would be an total waste of money (until the boarders are open).

VA2.0 would be far better off, trying to re-patch it’s relationship with NZ once the Tasman Bubble does happen.


Agreed, IMO a higher priority than any "global alliance" would be that the new NZ and VA management teams both give each other a call to repair the mess that was left under the previous teams led by Luxon and Borghetti.

Whilst also at the same time convincing the NZ government/shareholders (NZ) and Bain (VAH) that the partnership will give a large return on their investment.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:55 am

SCFlyer wrote:
zkncj wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/virgin-australia-star-alliance

The call for VA to join Star Alliance would never end until they do. The biggest obstacle has been the JV with DL but increasingly their LAX routes look less important given their new strategic direction and what's going on in the States. If they still intend to team up with NH and the relationship with NZ can improve with new management on both sides, I can only see benefits. I am sure Bain would not worry about the alliance membership fee too much.


Joining an global alliance in the next year or two would be an total waste of money (until the boarders are open).

VA2.0 would be far better off, trying to re-patch it’s relationship with NZ once the Tasman Bubble does happen.


Agreed, IMO a higher priority than any "global alliance" would be that the new NZ and VA management teams both give each other a call to repair the mess that was left under the previous teams led by Luxon and Borghetti.

Whilst also at the same time convincing the NZ government/shareholders (NZ) and Bain (VAH) that the partnership will give a large return on their investment.


Agree with both those views. A logical Step 1 for VA2 should be to try and clean up the fallout of the Borghetti-Luxon spat and get the VA-NZ partnership back, although the QF-NZ partnership might be locked in place for a few more years and not make that possible.

There's no reason Bain should rush into joining Star Alliance in the next 12 months but there is every reason that Star should be considered once overseas travel resumes in decent numbers. VA's limited flying means its payments to Star, either ASK or RSK, won't be massive but with international travellers coming back to AU it could benefit from them being steered onto Virgin instead of Qantas. So maybe Bain gets VA2 off the ground in Q3-2020, does the numbers and sees how things are going and applies for Star membership in mid-2021 ahead of joining in early 2022.
 
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:07 am

Are the any updated details for Qantas' last 747 to fly out of Sydney tomorrow, 22nd July? According to https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-boeing-747-retirement-flights-for-sydney-brisbane-canberra the scheduled departure is 2pm. Ideas for good spotting locations? The article says it will go past Shep's Mound and there's always the old Control Tower and foreshore. It is supposed to head down to HARS, so would Cape Solander likely be any good? Would like to give it one final farewell and the top of my driveway turned out not to be so great for the Sydney flyover. :)

Some photos I took from the ground in Canberra if anyone is interested: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2XdwBCLcMhpDJK37
I like artificial banana essence!
 
VH-BZF
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:55 am

soyuz wrote:
QF A380 VH-OQK en route MEL-LAX as QF 6001. That leaves one last QF A380 on Aussie soil - OQC in Sydney.


Yep, OQC departs Sydney next week.
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
FL420FT
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:11 am

allrite wrote:
Are the any updated details for Qantas' last 747 to fly out of Sydney tomorrow, 22nd July? According to https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-boeing-747-retirement-flights-for-sydney-brisbane-canberra the scheduled departure is 2pm. Ideas for good spotting locations? The article says it will go past Shep's Mound and there's always the old Control Tower and foreshore. It is supposed to head down to HARS, so would Cape Solander likely be any good? Would like to give it one final farewell and the top of my driveway turned out not to be so great for the Sydney flyover. :)

Some photos I took from the ground in Canberra if anyone is interested: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2XdwBCLcMhpDJK37



First off, thank you for the photos.

VH-OEJ (which, by all appearances will have the flight number QF7474 according to FR24) is still scheduled for a 1400 departure. The whether forecast is for a 10kt wind form the NW, where you would suspect it should take off to the north (unless they decide to do a one off pattern change for OEJ), If she does take off to the north, the Ikea or Decathlon car parks will be good for a 'wheels up' opportunity.
I'm heading to Circular Quay to watch if fly over and up Sydney Harbour. VH-OEE flew up Sydney Harbour at 1800ft 2 weeks ago.
 
smi0006
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 10:28 am

CraigAnderson wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Joining an global alliance in the next year or two would be an total waste of money (until the boarders are open).

VA2.0 would be far better off, trying to re-patch it’s relationship with NZ once the Tasman Bubble does happen.


Agreed, IMO a higher priority than any "global alliance" would be that the new NZ and VA management teams both give each other a call to repair the mess that was left under the previous teams led by Luxon and Borghetti.

Whilst also at the same time convincing the NZ government/shareholders (NZ) and Bain (VAH) that the partnership will give a large return on their investment.


Agree with both those views. A logical Step 1 for VA2 should be to try and clean up the fallout of the Borghetti-Luxon spat and get the VA-NZ partnership back, although the QF-NZ partnership might be locked in place for a few more years and not make that possible.

There's no reason Bain should rush into joining Star Alliance in the next 12 months but there is every reason that Star should be considered once overseas travel resumes in decent numbers. VA's limited flying means its payments to Star, either ASK or RSK, won't be massive but with international travellers coming back to AU it could benefit from them being steered onto Virgin instead of Qantas. So maybe Bain gets VA2 off the ground in Q3-2020, does the numbers and sees how things are going and applies for Star membership in mid-2021 ahead of joining in early 2022.


I’m not sure what’s in it for NZ though? NZ and QF share pricing power and capacity power across the Tasman - they are both rational competitors- VA before Covid, wasn’t rational throwing all sorts of capacity and pricing into the market. To me it would seem better for NZ to be rid of VA, have QF Interline, and QF and NZ as a three way competitors force VA off the Tasman- they both will want a duopoly that’s sensible. NZ/VA never reached it full fruition and was a mess before Luxon and Borghetti spat, the cultures and systems never integrated as they should have.

Maybe things have changed - but big risk for NZ to take a gamble on VA surviving after divorcing QF. If I was the NZ board I’d say this ain’t the time to be bold, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it - stay with QF.
 
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allrite
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:18 pm

FL420FT wrote:
allrite wrote:
Are the any updated details for Qantas' last 747 to fly out of Sydney tomorrow, 22nd July? According to https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/qantas-boeing-747-retirement-flights-for-sydney-brisbane-canberra the scheduled departure is 2pm. Ideas for good spotting locations? The article says it will go past Shep's Mound and there's always the old Control Tower and foreshore. It is supposed to head down to HARS, so would Cape Solander likely be any good? Would like to give it one final farewell and the top of my driveway turned out not to be so great for the Sydney flyover. :)

Some photos I took from the ground in Canberra if anyone is interested: https://photos.app.goo.gl/k2XdwBCLcMhpDJK37



First off, thank you for the photos.

VH-OEJ (which, by all appearances will have the flight number QF7474 according to FR24) is still scheduled for a 1400 departure. The whether forecast is for a 10kt wind form the NW, where you would suspect it should take off to the north (unless they decide to do a one off pattern change for OEJ), If she does take off to the north, the Ikea or Decathlon car parks will be good for a 'wheels up' opportunity.
I'm heading to Circular Quay to watch if fly over and up Sydney Harbour. VH-OEE flew up Sydney Harbour at 1800ft 2 weeks ago.


Thank you, that's very helpful! Trying to stay off public transport right now due to the virus but there are places along Botany Bay that t least give a view of the airport and the city, even if you are not directly under the main action.

Canberra was fantastic as there are lots of accessible open spaces and landmarks for viewing.
I like artificial banana essence!
 
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EK413
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Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:35 pm

For those of you interested...

Image

Source: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1508521 ... ?ref=share



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1075
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:32 pm

smi0006 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

Agreed, IMO a higher priority than any "global alliance" would be that the new NZ and VA management teams both give each other a call to repair the mess that was left under the previous teams led by Luxon and Borghetti.

Whilst also at the same time convincing the NZ government/shareholders (NZ) and Bain (VAH) that the partnership will give a large return on their investment.


Agree with both those views. A logical Step 1 for VA2 should be to try and clean up the fallout of the Borghetti-Luxon spat and get the VA-NZ partnership back, although the QF-NZ partnership might be locked in place for a few more years and not make that possible.

There's no reason Bain should rush into joining Star Alliance in the next 12 months but there is every reason that Star should be considered once overseas travel resumes in decent numbers. VA's limited flying means its payments to Star, either ASK or RSK, won't be massive but with international travellers coming back to AU it could benefit from them being steered onto Virgin instead of Qantas. So maybe Bain gets VA2 off the ground in Q3-2020, does the numbers and sees how things are going and applies for Star membership in mid-2021 ahead of joining in early 2022.


I’m not sure what’s in it for NZ though? NZ and QF share pricing power and capacity power across the Tasman - they are both rational competitors- VA before Covid, wasn’t rational throwing all sorts of capacity and pricing into the market. To me it would seem better for NZ to be rid of VA, have QF Interline, and QF and NZ as a three way competitors force VA off the Tasman- they both will want a duopoly that’s sensible. NZ/VA never reached it full fruition and was a mess before Luxon and Borghetti spat, the cultures and systems never integrated as they should have.

Maybe things have changed - but big risk for NZ to take a gamble on VA surviving after divorcing QF. If I was the NZ board I’d say this ain’t the time to be bold, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it - stay with QF.


What's in it for NZ is of course the massive Velocity member base. Even better if the partnership would lead VA to give up trans-Tasman flying alteogther. QF's current arrangement with NZ covers only each other's domestic networks and it won't get them QFF base onto NZ flights. While it probably does benefit some travellers with domestic connections, I can't imagine there is a big market for it. NZ's partnership with QF makes zero sense and should have been a simple interline agreement.
 
NZ516
Posts: 450
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:38 pm

xiaotung wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
CraigAnderson wrote:

Agree with both those views. A logical Step 1 for VA2 should be to try and clean up the fallout of the Borghetti-Luxon spat and get the VA-NZ partnership back, although the QF-NZ partnership might be locked in place for a few more years and not make that possible.

There's no reason Bain should rush into joining Star Alliance in the next 12 months but there is every reason that Star should be considered once overseas travel resumes in decent numbers. VA's limited flying means its payments to Star, either ASK or RSK, won't be massive but with international travellers coming back to AU it could benefit from them being steered onto Virgin instead of Qantas. So maybe Bain gets VA2 off the ground in Q3-2020, does the numbers and sees how things are going and applies for Star membership in mid-2021 ahead of joining in early 2022.


I’m not sure what’s in it for NZ though? NZ and QF share pricing power and capacity power across the Tasman - they are both rational competitors- VA before Covid, wasn’t rational throwing all sorts of capacity and pricing into the market. To me it would seem better for NZ to be rid of VA, have QF Interline, and QF and NZ as a three way competitors force VA off the Tasman- they both will want a duopoly that’s sensible. NZ/VA never reached it full fruition and was a mess before Luxon and Borghetti spat, the cultures and systems never integrated as they should have.

Maybe things have changed - but big risk for NZ to take a gamble on VA surviving after divorcing QF. If I was the NZ board I’d say this ain’t the time to be bold, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it - stay with QF.


What's in it for NZ is of course the massive Velocity member base. Even better if the partnership would lead VA to give up trans-Tasman flying alteogther. QF's current arrangement with NZ covers only each other's domestic networks and it won't get them QFF base onto NZ flights. While it probably does benefit some travellers with domestic connections, I can't imagine there is a big market for it. NZ's partnership with QF makes zero sense and should have been a simple interline agreement.


If the NZ/QF partnership makes zero sense it would never have been enacted. For NZ it's much better than the previous deal they had with VA. It won't be ending soon the airlines systems are more aligned with each other and product consistency is more similar between QF and NZ.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2538
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:21 pm

NZ516 wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

I’m not sure what’s in it for NZ though? NZ and QF share pricing power and capacity power across the Tasman - they are both rational competitors- VA before Covid, wasn’t rational throwing all sorts of capacity and pricing into the market. To me it would seem better for NZ to be rid of VA, have QF Interline, and QF and NZ as a three way competitors force VA off the Tasman- they both will want a duopoly that’s sensible. NZ/VA never reached it full fruition and was a mess before Luxon and Borghetti spat, the cultures and systems never integrated as they should have.

Maybe things have changed - but big risk for NZ to take a gamble on VA surviving after divorcing QF. If I was the NZ board I’d say this ain’t the time to be bold, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it - stay with QF.


What's in it for NZ is of course the massive Velocity member base. Even better if the partnership would lead VA to give up trans-Tasman flying alteogther. QF's current arrangement with NZ covers only each other's domestic networks and it won't get them QFF base onto NZ flights. While it probably does benefit some travellers with domestic connections, I can't imagine there is a big market for it. NZ's partnership with QF makes zero sense and should have been a simple interline agreement.


If the NZ/QF partnership makes zero sense it would never have been enacted. For NZ it's much better than the previous deal they had with VA. It won't be ending soon the airlines systems are more aligned with each other and product consistency is more similar between QF and NZ.

If VA did join Star, which is by no means certain or of any great benefit to VA in the short to medium term, NZ really has no alternative but to partner with them given their pax automatically get benefits on each other's airlines. Star would like VA because Australia is a huge hole in their network. It has been an issue since the demise of AN and NZ will never really assist Star because it will never have domestic coverage in Australia.

As far as product consistency is concerned, Trans-Tasman, NZ is closer to JQ than QF except where it operates 787s (ex AKL only) which even then is pretty ordinary compared with QF's widebody product. No one really knows what the new VA product will be like but chances are it will be very similar to NZ's A320s except it will retain a small J class cabin.
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NZ516
Posts: 450
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:23 pm

NZ is not closer to JQ than it's to QF product wise. That is just your opinion and not fact. We have had this discussion on here before and no more needs to be said on the matter.
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:16 am

Considering Scurrah had been considering a NZ-style "Seats to Suit" model for VAd and VAi (Short Haul) prior to VA filing administration, there's a good chance that may eventually be sped up with the occurance of COVID.

Another personal suggestion of my own, is that VA's existing (737) J class could also have their service customised as per certain routes. The "Golden Triangle" could keep their current (pre)COVID service levels, whereas the leisure routes (such as OOL and CNS), the J seats could be sold as "Y+" and a upgraded "snack" (the old Flex Wraps) with complimentary drinks (and flexibility) being provided for example.
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:25 am

Could NZ have deals with both QF and VA?
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:32 am

qf2220 wrote:
Could NZ have deals with both QF and VA?


NZ has interline agreements with both VA and QF.

NZ just has a "codeshare" agreement (and reciprocal domestic lounge access) on QF domestic flights on top of its interline agreement since the dissolving/breakup of the VA codeshare/JV partnership in 2018.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2538
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:33 am

qf2220 wrote:
Could NZ have deals with both QF and VA?

Yes, if VA was a member of Star, NZ would have arrangements with both at least until the end of the current QF agreement though after that it would be unlikely to maintain the QF partnership.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:50 am

The question is will a Star membership maximise the return on Bain's investment? Bain won't hesistate to keep VA out of any of the FSC Alliances if they think it doesn't give a return on their investment.

Keep in mind the outgoing ownership group of VA will no longer have any influence over VA's operations based on the assumption the Bain agreement gets ratified and voted on in August.
 
moa999
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:14 am

As a result of being unaligned I understand VA has generally got the majority of both Star and SkyTeam onward traffic.

Go towards one, you possibly lose the traffic from the other.
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2538
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:10 am

SCFlyer wrote:
The question is will a Star membership maximise the return on Bain's investment? Bain won't hesistate to keep VA out of any of the FSC Alliances if they think it doesn't give a return on their investment.

Keep in mind the outgoing ownership group of VA will no longer have any influence over VA's operations based on the assumption the Bain agreement gets ratified and voted on in August.

You are correct that it will come down to dollars. Bain would need to see that membership of an alliance adds value to the business. I doubt they would be interested in signing up if the annual subscription cost is $10M for example. Having said that, they will need international oncarriage partners as well as maintaining relationships to provide partners for Velocity. By definition, this means they will probably seek an ongoing relationship with airlines such as SQ and EY.
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xiaotung
Posts: 1075
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:27 am

moa999 wrote:
As a result of being unaligned I understand VA has generally got the majority of both Star and SkyTeam onward traffic.

Go towards one, you possibly lose the traffic from the other.


Not really. If VA joined Star, they would get some of the Star pax that would use to take QF/JQ and SkyTeam pax would have no better or worse choice than before.

Star has 11 carriers flying into Australia (AC, CA, AI, NH, OZ, BR, SQ, TG, UA, SA, NZ). SkyTeam has only 7 (CI, MU, DL, GA, KE, VN, MF) and most of them aren't exactly premium traffic. If I had to pick one to join, I would pick Star.
 
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qf789
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:18 am

Here is dedicated thread for OEJ's retirement

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1449391&p=22334745#p22334745
Forum Moderator
 
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Velocity7
Posts: 81
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:32 am

Something up with OEJ? Flight Radar showing an odd track? Was the flyover Taree planned? Seems to be doing some odd manoevers out over the water and rather low at 19000ft?
 
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Velocity7
Posts: 81
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:35 am

Velocity7 wrote:
Something up with OEJ? Flight Radar showing an odd track? Was the flyover Taree planned? Seems to be doing some odd manoevers out over the water and rather low at 19000ft?


Doh! Ignore that, just realised what she is doing. That is really nice touch
 
Fuling
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:39 am

Velocity7 wrote:
Velocity7 wrote:
Something up with OEJ? Flight Radar showing an odd track? Was the flyover Taree planned? Seems to be doing some odd manoevers out over the water and rather low at 19000ft?


Doh! Ignore that, just realised what she is doing. That is really nice touch


Haha I just came on to ask that too, read your last comment and it still took me a couple of minutes to realise! What a great touch!
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