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CWL757
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PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:51 pm

EASA has today banned PIA from the EU until at least the 31st December. Not a surprise really!
https://onemileatatime.com/european-uni ... -airlines/
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Blerg
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:54 pm

I guess Emirates and Qatar Airways are celebrating now?
 
airhansa
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:58 pm

I'm surprised they already weren't.
 
jghealey
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:58 pm

The right decision, I'm surprised it took this long for this to happen and it's equally shocking how PIA knowingly knew they had unlicensed pilots. Hopefully they will manage to turn around flight safety in Pakistan and leave these issues behind quickly.
 
iadadd
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:09 pm

Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG.
 
dc10bhx
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:10 pm

We have just had the PK791 arrive at BHX from ISB. And earlier today a flyer from their GSA for cargo offering a direct LHR-KHI flight on the 4th July.

Obviously the news about being banned did not filter down the network too quickly for the proposed flight on Saturday! Todays PK flight is the first I have seen for a while here at BHX! Ah well time will tell if they ever come back after December 31st.
I'm lucky my job is my hobby
 
hohd
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:11 pm

Lucky for PIA, there is not much travel anyway due to the current virus situation. However if it continue beyond this year, revenue from lucrative MAN flights will suffer driving even more traffic to Emirates and Qatar.
 
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zkojq
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:26 pm

An appropriate response. Let's hope that the airline can turn around their safety attitude/record just as Korean Air did in the past twenty five years.

How does this work operationally - are all PIA aircraft banned from EU airspace or just from operating flights into EU airports? Their flights to North America often go overhead Norway/Sweden/Finland. Likewise, once the transition period ends, will PIA be able to fly through EU airspace to the UK (excusing the fact that this ban and the transition period expires on the same day)?
First to fly the 787-9
 
JeremyXWB
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:32 pm

With the fake pilot licenses scandal, it's only a matter of time. Only surprised that it took this long

I guess that it's also rather convenient to be banned from flying somewhere during the current pandemic, given how much demand is down.
 
mxaxai
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:40 pm

Well, PIA was already on the list back in 2007 (for poor maintenance). Guess they only learned how to hide or mitigate certain problems, but not how to improve overall regulatory oversight.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:55 pm

iadadd wrote:
Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG.

Pakistan needs an audit.

Bad the pilots could try this.
Worse the flight schools complied
Even worse the airline didn't discover this.
Horrid that the regulator did catch the flight schools nor the airline until this was exposed after loss of life.

There must be audits.
Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
Retaliation
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:29 pm

This is regarding ATPLs . Not the CPLs. The regulatory authority CAA Pakistan is to blame.
Secondly there is 'quota' system in place in Pakistan which makes sure there are no deserving candidates to make their way to become pilots in PIA.

What can you expect from employees selected on the basis of language, nepotism, provincialism, racism and political influence?
Imagine engineers and pilots appointed on racial backgrounds for a business which requires extremely skilled and intelligent people for the safety of its passengers but if anyone cares..... pia for you.
 
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AirlineCritic
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:48 pm

Sadly, this may have been the right action.

Fake licenses and remarkably non-compliant flying in the recent accident would either one alone be cause for serious concern, but both...

Here's hoping that this is the wake-up call to ensure that the credentials, training and staff is all as it should be.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:15 pm

Pakistan holds one of the world's worst safety records when it comes to aviation. This recent development points to an even bigger problem: security (and total lack of it). This was the only decision and the conditions for the ban to be lifted should be very stringent.
 
Antarius
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
An appropriate response. Let's hope that the airline can turn around their safety attitude/record just as Korean Air did in the past twenty five years.

How does this work operationally - are all PIA aircraft banned from EU airspace or just from operating flights into EU airports? Their flights to North America often go overhead Norway/Sweden/Finland. Likewise, once the transition period ends, will PIA be able to fly through EU airspace to the UK (excusing the fact that this ban and the transition period expires on the same day)?


I believe it is airspace as well.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
JeremyB
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:29 pm

zkojq wrote:
An appropriate response. Let's hope that the airline can turn around their safety attitude/record just as Korean Air did in the past twenty five years.

How does this work operationally - are all PIA aircraft banned from EU airspace or just from operating flights into EU airports? Their flights to North America often go overhead Norway/Sweden/Finland. Likewise, once the transition period ends, will PIA be able to fly through EU airspace to the UK (excusing the fact that this ban and the transition period expires on the same day)?


Once a carrier is blacklisted by EASA they can't operate any flights to Europe, this also includes overflying the European airspace. If they still want to go to North America they would probably have to go East.

PIA will need to prove it's safety has improved, otherwise the ban can be extended for another 3 months. If they have can provide evidence that they have improved their safety, training whatever, they will be able to operate to the EU again on the 1st of January 2021.
 
behramjee
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:39 pm

UK CAA has also now banned PIA from MAN BHX LHR effective tomorrow.

Expect Canada to follow suit shortly.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:42 pm

It was the case (not sure if still the case) that the USA wouldn't let PIA fly direct from Pakistan to the USA as they considered it to be too much of a security risk - instead the USA insisted that the plane land somewhere beforehand (Manchester), everyone be rescreened at an airport which the USA trusted, and then depart for the USA
I suppose PIA could go to the USA via somewhere like Morocco, but until EU airspace is open to PIA, then flights to the USA might be paused
 
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zeke
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:01 pm

iadadd wrote:
Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG.


Nothing to do with licences, it was due to not implementing a safety management system.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
Ammad
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:29 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
It was the case (not sure if still the case) that the USA wouldn't let PIA fly direct from Pakistan to the USA as they considered it to be too much of a security risk - instead the USA insisted that the plane land somewhere beforehand (Manchester), everyone be rescreened at an airport which the USA trusted, and then depart for the USA
I suppose PIA could go to the USA via somewhere like Morocco, but until EU airspace is open to PIA, then flights to the USA might be paused


Even before CORONA PIA had no schedule flight for USA.
 
factsonly
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:06 am

behramjee wrote:
UK CAA has also now banned PIA from MAN BHX LHR effective tomorrow.



Wednesday July 1st, 2020:

There is a PIA flight en-route to LHR.

- PK785 ISB 12.06 - LHR 16.00 B77W AP-BID

https://www.flightradar24.com/PIA785/24d2cedf

Question is....... will Pakistan take retaliatory action against EU carriers and ban overflights.

Possibly not, as there is a technical cause, not a political one.
 
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FlyRow
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:36 am

factsonly wrote:
behramjee wrote:
UK CAA has also now banned PIA from MAN BHX LHR effective tomorrow.



Wednesday July 1st, 2020:

There is a PIA flight en-route to LHR.

- PK785 ISB 12.06 - LHR 16.00 B77W AP-BID

https://www.flightradar24.com/PIA785/24d2cedf

Question is....... will Pakistan take retaliatory action against EU carriers and ban overflights.

Possibly not, as there is a technical cause, not a political one.


Also way less effective .
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PANAMsterdam
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:08 am

And the EU has quite a good reason to ban them.

Perhaps all PIA pilots can show their flight skills in an EU simulator to filter out the bad apples and speed up the process of resuming flights to the EU (and other western countries)?
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:16 am

My understanding is the ban has been suspended for 3 days - ie becomes effective on 04 July, not 01 July
 
airhansa
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:30 am

lightsaber wrote:
iadadd wrote:
Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG.

Pakistan needs an audit.

Bad the pilots could try this.
Worse the flight schools complied
Even worse the airline didn't discover this.
Horrid that the regulator did catch the flight schools nor the airline until this was exposed after loss of life.

There must be audits.
Lightsaber


By whom? And what gives the country the "privilege" of a national audit that other countries do themselves?
 
maint123
Posts: 394
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:00 am

factsonly wrote:
behramjee wrote:
UK CAA has also now banned PIA from MAN BHX LHR effective tomorrow.



Wednesday July 1st, 2020:

There is a PIA flight en-route to LHR.

- PK785 ISB 12.06 - LHR 16.00 B77W AP-BID

https://www.flightradar24.com/PIA785/24d2cedf

Question is....... will Pakistan take retaliatory action against EU carriers and ban overflights.

Possibly not, as there is a technical cause, not a political one.

A bit surprised that the ban came so late. PIA is famous for its crew smuggling drugs and money across borders. Scores of cases across the years.
 
behramjee
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:10 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
My understanding is the ban has been suspended for 3 days - ie becomes effective on 04 July, not 01 July


yes you are correct as this has been officially confirmed now

The Gulf carriers and TK are doing to be in for a mini honeymoon period carrying large volumes of UK-PAK pax in particular as the volumes are very high

UK-ISB alone by itself is almost 800,000 pax annually round trip

UK-LHE is less than 400,000 round trip whilst UK-KHI is around 150,000 pax round trip
 
DIJKKIJK
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:26 am

Blerg wrote:
I guess Emirates and Qatar Airways are celebrating now?



They won't give a damn as they both have left PIA in the dust a long time ago.
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
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glideslope
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:43 am

Good. The rest of the world should follow.
To know your Enemy, you must become your Enemy.” Sun Tzu
 
Toinou
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:51 am

Retaliation wrote:
This is regarding ATPLs . Not the CPLs. The regulatory authority CAA Pakistan is to blame.
Secondly there is 'quota' system in place in Pakistan which makes sure there are no deserving candidates to make their way to become pilots in PIA.

What can you expect from employees selected on the basis of language, nepotism, provincialism, racism and political influence?
Imagine engineers and pilots appointed on racial backgrounds for a business which requires extremely skilled and intelligent people for the safety of its passengers but if anyone cares..... pia for you.

Can you elaborate a bit about that quota system ?
 
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zeke
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:07 am

PANAMsterdam wrote:
And the EU has quite a good reason to ban them.

Perhaps all PIA pilots can show their flight skills in an EU simulator to filter out the bad apples and speed up the process of resuming flights to the EU (and other western countries)?


It has nothing to do with pilot licences, they have not implemented a safety management system.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Polot
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:18 am

zeke wrote:
PANAMsterdam wrote:
And the EU has quite a good reason to ban them.

Perhaps all PIA pilots can show their flight skills in an EU simulator to filter out the bad apples and speed up the process of resuming flights to the EU (and other western countries)?


It has nothing to do with pilot licences, they have not implemented a safety management system.

EASA directly calls out the validity of Pakistani pilot licenses (and subsequently Pakistan’s ability to oversee and certify its operators and airlines) in their letter announcing the ban.

Ultimately fake pilot licenses are a symptom, a symptom of poor and ineffective oversight. But it is not a coincidence that the ban arose (with almost immediate effect) right after the fact that a number of Pakistani pilots are flying around on fake licenses came to light.
Last edited by Polot on Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
MON
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:27 am

Having thankfully not made a booked PIA F27 domestic flight that fatally crashed out of Gilgit in 1989 and since flown professionally through Pakistan airspace, I’m only surprised they were not banned years ago.
 
behramjee
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:35 am

DIJKKIJK wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I guess Emirates and Qatar Airways are celebrating now?



They won't give a damn as they both have left PIA in the dust a long time ago.


You didn’t understand his post so let me give you a reality check

UK-ISB out of the 800,000 pax, PIA controls 70% market share because pax prefer the nonstop flying convenience option hence now with that no longer available for 6 months, the Gulf carriers will benefit a lot. The only reason why PK doesn’t have 80-85% market share on UK-ISB is because it flies lhr-isb 4 weekly only when it should be daily as p2p alone here is almost 300,000 pax ! MAN-ISB is already a daily B777 since Q1-2019.

The only market in EU where PK doesn’t dominate is KHI-LHR because it offers a 1 weekly service.
 
AAMDanny
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:46 am

PIA have bought this upon themselves. Hopefully this will be the benchmark where they turn things around. But history tells me this won't happen due the corruption being deep to the core within PIA.
 
dstblj52
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:53 am

airhansa wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
iadadd wrote:
Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG.

Pakistan needs an audit.

Bad the pilots could try this.
Worse the flight schools complied
Even worse the airline didn't discover this.
Horrid that the regulator did catch the flight schools nor the airline until this was exposed after loss of life.

There must be audits.
Lightsaber


By whom? And what gives the country the "privilege" of a national audit that other countries do themselves?

Once a regulator has a proven track record of regulation most other national regulators tend to trust them when that trust is broken they start auditing again and if you want to fly through a nation's airspace they can require you pass their audits.
 
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Polot
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:58 am

airhansa wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
iadadd wrote:
Yeah 1/3 of its pilots having faulty licenses is a HUUUUGE RED FLAG.

Pakistan needs an audit.

Bad the pilots could try this.
Worse the flight schools complied
Even worse the airline didn't discover this.
Horrid that the regulator did catch the flight schools nor the airline until this was exposed after loss of life.

There must be audits.
Lightsaber


By whom? And what gives the country the "privilege" of a national audit that other countries do themselves?


ICAO (of which Pakistan is a member) routinely audits its member countries.

IATA (of which PIA is a member) routinely audits its member airlines.

I don’t know when the last time Pakistan/PIA were audited though. Would not surprise me if the process has already started (best it can right now with covid restrictions) based on some of the information that has emerged since the PIA crash though.
 
airhansa
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:01 pm

Polot wrote:
airhansa wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Pakistan needs an audit.

Bad the pilots could try this.
Worse the flight schools complied
Even worse the airline didn't discover this.
Horrid that the regulator did catch the flight schools nor the airline until this was exposed after loss of life.

There must be audits.
Lightsaber


By whom? And what gives the country the "privilege" of a national audit that other countries do themselves?


ICAO (of which Pakistan is a member) routinely audits its member countries.

IATA (of which PIA is a member) routinely audits its member airlines.


Sorry. I was thinking in a more generic view about the governance and society of Pakistan. My mistake.
 
avier
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:02 pm

behramjee wrote:
DIJKKIJK wrote:
Blerg wrote:
I guess Emirates and Qatar Airways are celebrating now?



They won't give a damn as they both have left PIA in the dust a long time ago.


You didn’t understand his post so let me give you a reality check

UK-ISB out of the 800,000 pax, PIA controls 70% market share because pax prefer the nonstop flying convenience option hence now with that no longer available for 6 months, the Gulf carriers will benefit a lot. The only reason why PK doesn’t have 80-85% market share on UK-ISB is because it flies lhr-isb 4 weekly only when it should be daily as p2p alone here is almost 300,000 pax ! MAN-ISB is already a daily B777 since Q1-2019.

The only market in EU where PK doesn’t dominate is KHI-LHR because it offers a 1 weekly service.

And how do those numbers have any relevance to the current market situation now? The traffic figures are going to be very unidirectional and small. And EU has also put restrictions on what nationalities can enter their countries; Pakistan and even US, Brazil etc don't figure on the list. So those numbers have no bearing to now or even till the year end, till when this ban is in place. If any benefit to ME carriers from this, it'd be miniscule.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/30/worl ... elers.html
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:22 pm

Ammad wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
It was the case (not sure if still the case) that the USA wouldn't let PIA fly direct from Pakistan to the USA as they considered it to be too much of a security risk - instead the USA insisted that the plane land somewhere beforehand (Manchester), everyone be rescreened at an airport which the USA trusted, and then depart for the USA
I suppose PIA could go to the USA via somewhere like Morocco, but until EU airspace is open to PIA, then flights to the USA might be paused


Even before CORONA PIA had no schedule flight for USA.


PK did have that YYZ flight that was suspended for COVID-19. That flight will not resume unless they can get a stopover in the Far East (like NRT). That said, I expect a ban from US airspace soon as well for overflight (the flight would likely overfly Alaska).

I have to wonder now for how much longer PK will hold onto the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC (which they bought in 1999).
 
davidjohnson6
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:32 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I have to wonder now for how much longer PK will hold onto the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC (which they bought in 1999).


Going by news reports today, it seems the idea of selling the hotel is being actively considered
https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/680375 ... velt-hotel
 
arjunsarup
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:48 pm

Somehow all of this will be our fault and the only retaliatory action Pakistan will take will be to ban overflights by India! Conjecture apart, shouldn't India also ban PIA for our own airspace safety like the EU? Why not apply the same yardstick?
 
Jetty
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:28 pm

Europe just doesn't understand the value goats have towards saver aviation.
 
Westerwaelder
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:37 pm

JeremyB wrote:
zkojq wrote:
An appropriate response. Let's hope that the airline can turn around their safety attitude/record just as Korean Air did in the past twenty five years.

How does this work operationally - are all PIA aircraft banned from EU airspace or just from operating flights into EU airports? Their flights to North America often go overhead Norway/Sweden/Finland. Likewise, once the transition period ends, will PIA be able to fly through EU airspace to the UK (excusing the fact that this ban and the transition period expires on the same day)?


Once a carrier is blacklisted by EASA they can't operate any flights to Europe, this also includes overflying the European airspace. If they still want to go to North America they would probably have to go East.

PIA will need to prove it's safety has improved, otherwise the ban can be extended for another 3 months. If they have can provide evidence that they have improved their safety, training whatever, they will be able to operate to the EU again on the 1st of January 2021.


According to news sources, the EU will still allow overlying of it's territory until further notice:

https://www.aero.de/news-36080/EASA-ent ... echte.html

In German only I'm afraid.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:39 pm

If PK, or rather Pakistan, thinks this will be a quick fix, they're mistaken. I see a minimum of 2 years before this gets reversed, and I'm sure the ICAO has been notified as well.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 203
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:39 pm

maint123 wrote:
factsonly wrote:
behramjee wrote:
UK CAA has also now banned PIA from MAN BHX LHR effective tomorrow.



Wednesday July 1st, 2020:

There is a PIA flight en-route to LHR.

- PK785 ISB 12.06 - LHR 16.00 B77W AP-BID

https://www.flightradar24.com/PIA785/24d2cedf

Question is....... will Pakistan take retaliatory action against EU carriers and ban overflights.

Possibly not, as there is a technical cause, not a political one.

A bit surprised that the ban came so late. PIA is famous for its crew smuggling drugs and money across borders. Scores of cases across the years.


Maybe you care to provide a source for that?
 
hohd
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:22 pm

I doubt if its soon to be JFK flights will start any time soon. And Toronto may not restart even after the virus situation is under control, until the situation with EU agencies are resolved. I doubt if Canada will allow PIA to resume flights knowing that it has been banned from flying to EU and UK.
 
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zeke
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:24 pm

Polot wrote:
EASA directly calls out the validity of Pakistani pilot licenses (and subsequently Pakistan’s ability to oversee and certify its operators and airlines) in their letter announcing the ban.

Ultimately fake pilot licenses are a symptom, a symptom of poor and ineffective oversight. But it is not a coincidence that the ban arose (with almost immediate effect) right after the fact that a number of Pakistani pilots are flying around on fake licenses came to light.



This is not correct, the ban is a result of events last year, there were two meetings that were part of the normal foreign air operators certificate oversight held with PIA in June and September 2019, 6 level two items were raised by EASA. PIA addressed 5 out of 6 of them, the last one they failed to address satisfactory in the time frame required so it was escalated to level 1 resulting in the ban.

The pilot license issue was only revealed on June 24 this year. PIA has already grounded all pilots that were issued with fake licenses,
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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Polot
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Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:40 pm

zeke wrote:
Polot wrote:
EASA directly calls out the validity of Pakistani pilot licenses (and subsequently Pakistan’s ability to oversee and certify its operators and airlines) in their letter announcing the ban.

Ultimately fake pilot licenses are a symptom, a symptom of poor and ineffective oversight. But it is not a coincidence that the ban arose (with almost immediate effect) right after the fact that a number of Pakistani pilots are flying around on fake licenses came to light.



This is not correct, the ban is a result of events last year, there were two meetings that were part of the normal foreign air operators certificate oversight held with PIA in June and September 2019, 6 level two items were raised by EASA. PIA addressed 5 out of 6 of them, the last one they failed to address satisfactory in the time frame required so it was escalated to level 1 resulting in the ban.

The pilot license issue was only revealed on June 24 this year. PIA has already grounded all pilots that were issued with fake licenses,

And it was just coincidence that Vision Air International (another Pakistani airline) was banned at the same time and EASA felt the need to include discussion about the validity of Pakistani licenses in their ban?

Just grounding the pilots is not enough, EASA wants to be assured that it won’t happen in the future. Obviously right now neither PIA or the Pakistani authorities had the proper oversight that should have prevented them from flying in the first place.

Safety management might have been the issue with PIA that was initially on the EU’s radar, but it certainly isn’t the only one now and it is unlikely the ban will be lifted until EASA has confidence in Pakistan’s pilot certifying standards and oversight.
 
JeremyB
Posts: 177
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:56 pm

Re: PIA banned from Europe

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:03 pm

Westerwaelder wrote:
JeremyB wrote:
zkojq wrote:
An appropriate response. Let's hope that the airline can turn around their safety attitude/record just as Korean Air did in the past twenty five years.

How does this work operationally - are all PIA aircraft banned from EU airspace or just from operating flights into EU airports? Their flights to North America often go overhead Norway/Sweden/Finland. Likewise, once the transition period ends, will PIA be able to fly through EU airspace to the UK (excusing the fact that this ban and the transition period expires on the same day)?


Once a carrier is blacklisted by EASA they can't operate any flights to Europe, this also includes overflying the European airspace. If they still want to go to North America they would probably have to go East.

PIA will need to prove it's safety has improved, otherwise the ban can be extended for another 3 months. If they have can provide evidence that they have improved their safety, training whatever, they will be able to operate to the EU again on the 1st of January 2021.


According to news sources, the EU will still allow overlying of it's territory until further notice:

https://www.aero.de/news-36080/EASA-ent ... echte.html

In German only I'm afraid.


Thanks for the link! Didn't expect them to still be allowed to overfly the EU, normally that is included in a ban.

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