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C172YT
Topic Author
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:25 pm

Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:18 pm

Air Canada is indefinitely suspending service on 30 domestic routes and closing eight stations:
    Bathurst (New Brunswick)
    Wabush (Newfoundland and Labrador)
    Gaspé (Quebec)
    Baie Comeau (Quebec)
    Mont Joli (Quebec)
    Val d’Or (Quebec)
    Kingston (Ontario)
    North Bay (Ontario)
Of the eight stations Air Canada is withdrawing from, I believe Kingston, Gaspé, and Bathurst are now left with no scheduled air carrier services.
Press Release
 
dr1980
Posts: 176
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:55 pm

Air Canada Discontinues Service on 30 Domestic Regional Routes and Closes Eight Stations in Canada

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:20 pm

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-06 ... -in-Canada

That’s going to be a bit hit for Jazz and even worse for what flying Evas had left (I think all of EVAS’s flights are on the list?).

I wonder how “indefinite” many of these will end up being. I’d guess Maritime regional flying that’s currently happening on B1900’s is at risk of never coming back. Hopefully I’m wrong.
Dave/CYHZ
 
heathrow
Posts: 371
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 11:33 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:21 pm

Good news for Pascan, not so much the communities.

Someone tell WestJet to get some Saabs out there STAT
 
PWA732
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Mar 22, 2020 10:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:31 pm

Air Canada is held with distain by most Canadians. They seem to believe that they are a monopoly that is consistantly on the receiving end of taxpayer bailouts (wrong) and still Government held (wrong). AC, Westjet Transat and Sunwing are being literally strangled by the mandatory "police enforced" 14 day quarantine for returning passengers, even though safe corridors and "bubbles" exist and continue to expand. This blanket "lockdown" approach, and constantly moving goal posts (closer to zero tollerance, far beyond "curve flattening") of what is required to open transport is doing irreparable damage to the Canadian tourist/travel industry.

The avalanche of service cancellations to smaller widely spread out communities that rely on air travel is just beginning.

Pete.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:25 pm

PWA732 wrote:
Air Canada is held with distain by most Canadians. They seem to believe that they are a monopoly that is consistantly on the receiving end of taxpayer bailouts (wrong) and still Government held (wrong). AC, Westjet Transat and Sunwing are being literally strangled by the mandatory "police enforced" 14 day quarantine for returning passengers, even though safe corridors and "bubbles" exist and continue to expand. This blanket "lockdown" approach, and constantly moving goal posts (closer to zero tollerance, far beyond "curve flattening") of what is required to open transport is doing irreparable damage to the Canadian tourist/travel industry.

The avalanche of service cancellations to smaller widely spread out communities that rely on air travel is just beginning.

Pete.

Air Canada is not the only airline cutting capacity. All airlines are. There are just not as many travellers going on an airplane. Who would want to fly in a sealed tube with a person who has Covid-19. It can be devastating to certain individuals and it seems to be very contagious. Not going to get me on a plane anytime soon.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
rampbro
Posts: 545
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:00 am

Re: Air Canada Discontinues Service on 30 Domestic Regional Routes and Closes Eight Stations in Canada

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:30 pm

dr1980 wrote:
I’d guess Maritime regional flying that’s currently happening on B1900’s is at risk of never coming back. Hopefully I’m wrong.


Considering how difficult it is to sustain coach service across the Maritimes and Newfoundland and Labrador, I share your pessimism.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4754
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:34 pm

Don't worry the US airlines will do the same they just can't do anything till October 1
 
shoelessjoe
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:27 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:46 pm

I am no fan of corporate welfare but the Commercial Aviation sector has been hit far harder than any other sector of the economy -- the Government of Canada reaps what it sews. It has spread billions of dollars around the economy but has chosen to not do any sector-specific package for the airline industry -- unlike the majority of peer countries -- and has done so (likely) for political reasons. As an investor and a regular AC customer, I expect, regrettably that AC has no choice by to respond in kind to the crisis. That various politicians are on TV trying to make hay out of the lack of refunds available and the decision to end 'seat distancing' is laughable -- the airlines have an obligation to their shareholders and employees to begin to operate profitably. Politicians are simply being politicians and pandering to people who want 1) low fares 2) an empty seat beside them and 3) all of it fully refundable. I am not unsympathetic to people who expect refunds, but these businesses have an obligation to try to stay in business -- and as a country Canada needs them to do so.
 
AC330
Posts: 340
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2001 4:20 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:05 pm

shoelessjoe wrote:
I am no fan of corporate welfare but the Commercial Aviation sector has been hit far harder than any other sector of the economy -- the Government of Canada reaps what it sews. It has spread billions of dollars around the economy but has chosen to not do any sector-specific package for the airline industry -- unlike the majority of peer countries -- and has done so (likely) for political reasons. As an investor and a regular AC customer, I expect, regrettably that AC has no choice by to respond in kind to the crisis. That various politicians are on TV trying to make hay out of the lack of refunds available and the decision to end 'seat distancing' is laughable -- the airlines have an obligation to their shareholders and employees to begin to operate profitably. Politicians are simply being politicians and pandering to people who want 1) low fares 2) an empty seat beside them and 3) all of it fully refundable. I am not unsympathetic to people who expect refunds, but these businesses have an obligation to try to stay in business -- and as a country Canada needs them to do so.


Very well put. I could not agree more.

AC330
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:47 pm

shoelessjoe wrote:
I am no fan of corporate welfare but the Commercial Aviation sector has been hit far harder than any other sector of the economy -- the Government of Canada reaps what it sews. It has spread billions of dollars around the economy but has chosen to not do any sector-specific package for the airline industry -- unlike the majority of peer countries -- and has done so (likely) for political reasons. As an investor and a regular AC customer, I expect, regrettably that AC has no choice by to respond in kind to the crisis. That various politicians are on TV trying to make hay out of the lack of refunds available and the decision to end 'seat distancing' is laughable -- the airlines have an obligation to their shareholders and employees to begin to operate profitably. Politicians are simply being politicians and pandering to people who want 1) low fares 2) an empty seat beside them and 3) all of it fully refundable. I am not unsympathetic to people who expect refunds, but these businesses have an obligation to try to stay in business -- and as a country Canada needs them to do so.


Lots of questionable assertions there.

- The Government has effectively given a couple of billion $ ($2.6?). Other than that it’s coming from individuals (for services not rendered), rather than taxpayers writ large, it is quite obviously government relief in all but name. The majority of Canada’s peer countries have not done that. Evidently, AC is refunding EU-origin pax, so it’s safe to say that if it wasn’t for the Canadian government intervening on AC’s behalf, they would have a lot less cash right now.

- As for the consequences to shareholders, that is not a Government concern. They did not force anyone to invest in AC. They did not force AC to spend $800 million in share buybacks over the past few years, instead of banking it in a rainy day fund. One can still divest at well above $0.

- Getting a bad rap for not providing refunds for services not rendered is unsurprising, especially when EU and US carriers are providing refunds. Even AC is providing refunds to ex-EU pax. As a general rule, people get upset when some are treated better than others despite buying an identical product/fare class/whatever. AC ( and WS) is treating its ex-Canada pax like an interest free bank in the middle of an economic crisis -it is, frankly, absurd. The sense of entitlement is staggering - almost like these airlines and their shareholders think they “own” Canadians and have a right to their money.

- As for Canada “needing” AC to stay in business...really? AC shareholders need AC to stay in business. Canada does not. There’s a fairly simple (temporary or permanent) fix - just nationalize the airline. If it’s so important to Canada, should it really be run on a for-profit basis that is obligated to shareholders rather than to Canadian taxpayers ? Alternatively, if it implodes, it can be replaced fairly easily by a publicly or privately owned entity - the pilots, FAs, mechanics, aircraft, infrastructure are all in place. Go from SR to LX perhaps?

I’ve never understood why shareholders in privately owned companies feel that the government needs those companies. Sure they’re probably more efficient etc than if the government takes over, but: “desperate times; desperate measures”.

That’s not to say that I don’t have sympathy for non executive AC employees, but there’s a government scheme to subsidize wages already in place - and AC doesn’t seem too interested.
 
tax1k
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:02 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:01 pm

I’m definitely not a huge fan of AC but you have to realize that is a cross between an airline and a post office. It is required to service a number of locations all over Canada and in return essentially has a monopoly. I don’t know the legal details but I assume that the Canadian federal government can require service restorations to a number of locations with union employees before the next election.
 
tax1k
Posts: 61
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2016 5:02 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:01 pm

I’m definitely not a huge fan of AC but you have to realize that is a cross between an airline and a post office. It is required to service a number of locations all over Canada and in return essentially has a monopoly. I don’t know the legal details but I assume that the Canadian federal government can require service restorations to a number of locations with union employees before the next election.
 
HVNandrew
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:05 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:05 pm

C172YT wrote:
Air Canada is indefinitely suspending service on 30 domestic routes and closing eight stations:
    Bathurst (New Brunswick)
    Wabush (Newfoundland and Labrador)
    Gaspé (Quebec)
    Baie Comeau (Quebec)
    Mont Joli (Quebec)
    Val d’Or (Quebec)
    Kingston (Ontario)
    North Bay (Ontario)
Of the eight stations Air Canada is withdrawing from, I believe Kingston, Gaspé, and Bathurst are now left with no scheduled air carrier services.
Press Release

I'm really surprised about some of those cuts in Eastern Quebec and Bathurst. Wabush will still have service on other carriers, and Baie Comeau is at least somewhat of a reasonable drive to Sept-Îles; likewise with Val-d'Or to Rouyn-Noranda. But Gaspé...that is now FAR from any commercial service. The closest alternatives would have been Mont-Joli or even Bathurst, both also now without service.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:08 pm

tax1k wrote:
I’m definitely not a huge fan of AC but you have to realize that is a cross between an airline and a post office. It is required to service a number of locations all over Canada and in return essentially has a monopoly. I don’t know the legal details but I assume that the Canadian federal government can require service restorations to a number of locations with union employees before the next election.


Pretty sure that’s not the case. For example, it has no footprint in the North. I don’t think there is a US-style EAS scheme of requirement in Canada.

I’m sure someone will come along and correct me if I’m wrong.
 
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iseeyyc
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:12 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:30 pm

brilondon wrote:
PWA732 wrote:
Air Canada is held with distain by most Canadians. They seem to believe that they are a monopoly that is consistantly on the receiving end of taxpayer bailouts (wrong) and still Government held (wrong). AC, Westjet Transat and Sunwing are being literally strangled by the mandatory "police enforced" 14 day quarantine for returning passengers, even though safe corridors and "bubbles" exist and continue to expand. This blanket "lockdown" approach, and constantly moving goal posts (closer to zero tollerance, far beyond "curve flattening") of what is required to open transport is doing irreparable damage to the Canadian tourist/travel industry.

The avalanche of service cancellations to smaller widely spread out communities that rely on air travel is just beginning.

Pete.

Air Canada is not the only airline cutting capacity. All airlines are. There are just not as many travellers going on an airplane. Who would want to fly in a sealed tube with a person who has Covid-19. It can be devastating to certain individuals and it seems to be very contagious. Not going to get me on a plane anytime soon.


Agreed. Its fairly narrow-minded to moan about measures that have kept Canada safe. Chances are, the sooner we can deal with this, the sooner confidence will be restored.
 
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CFM565A1
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:09 pm

AC330 wrote:
shoelessjoe wrote:
I am no fan of corporate welfare but the Commercial Aviation sector has been hit far harder than any other sector of the economy -- the Government of Canada reaps what it sews. It has spread billions of dollars around the economy but has chosen to not do any sector-specific package for the airline industry -- unlike the majority of peer countries -- and has done so (likely) for political reasons. As an investor and a regular AC customer, I expect, regrettably that AC has no choice by to respond in kind to the crisis. That various politicians are on TV trying to make hay out of the lack of refunds available and the decision to end 'seat distancing' is laughable -- the airlines have an obligation to their shareholders and employees to begin to operate profitably. Politicians are simply being politicians and pandering to people who want 1) low fares 2) an empty seat beside them and 3) all of it fully refundable. I am not unsympathetic to people who expect refunds, but these businesses have an obligation to try to stay in business -- and as a country Canada needs them to do so.


Very well put. I could not agree more.

AC330


Thank you, can’t find common sense anywhere anymore with all the mass hysteria. Foreign aid seems more important than the tens of thousands of jobs on the line these days
C172-M/N/P/R/S , PA-28-180, P2006T, PA-34-200T, B1900D, DH8A/C ERJ-145, CRJ-100/200, DH8D, CRJ-700/705/900, E-175/190, A319/320/321, 737-200/300/400/600/700/800/900ER/M8, MD-82/83, 757-200/300, 767-300, A330-300, 787-9, 777-300ER, F28-4000.
 
CXH
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Re: Air Canada Discontinues Service on 30 Domestic Regional Routes and Closes Eight Stations in Canada

Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:12 pm

dr1980 wrote:
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-06-30-Air-Canada-Discontinues-Service-on-30-Domestic-Regional-Routes-and-Closes-Eight-Stations-in-Canada

That’s going to be a bit hit for Jazz and even worse for what flying Evas had left (I think all of EVAS’s flights are on the list?).

I wonder how “indefinite” many of these will end up being. I’d guess Maritime regional flying that’s currently happening on B1900’s is at risk of never coming back. Hopefully I’m wrong.


Wow, yeah. I think most of EVAS's routes were on that list. And since they're headquartered in Gander, that will make it even harder for them.

Does anyone know if they do all/most of their own B1900 maintenance at Gander too?
I've seen the future, I can't afford it. - Martin Fry
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:25 am

HVNandrew wrote:
C172YT wrote:
Air Canada is indefinitely suspending service on 30 domestic routes and closing eight stations:
    Bathurst (New Brunswick)
    Wabush (Newfoundland and Labrador)
    Gaspé (Quebec)
    Baie Comeau (Quebec)
    Mont Joli (Quebec)
    Val d’Or (Quebec)
    Kingston (Ontario)
    North Bay (Ontario)
Of the eight stations Air Canada is withdrawing from, I believe Kingston, Gaspé, and Bathurst are now left with no scheduled air carrier services.
Press Release

I'm really surprised about some of those cuts in Eastern Quebec and Bathurst. Wabush will still have service on other carriers, and Baie Comeau is at least somewhat of a reasonable drive to Sept-Îles; likewise with Val-d'Or to Rouyn-Noranda. But Gaspé...that is now FAR from any commercial service. The closest alternatives would have been Mont-Joli or even Bathurst, both also now without service.


YVO will still have Air Creebec...and likely WG seasonally.

YBC will still have Quebec regional Air Liason.

YYY will still have Pas can and PAL...and probably WG too seasonally.

The DH1’s retirement is evident in these communities. DH3 in this environment is too big and AC now are officially done with 19 seaters, so no prospect there.

This list also excludes previously cut Lethbridge, Medicine Hat and Sarnia.

The real surprise on this list is Wabush.

I imagine some of these places will eventually return.

I imagine most, if not all of the cut YOW routes will return, with YXU being most likely. The two NB routes will still have PD, who are probably pretty giddy seeing this.
 
kavok
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:53 am

Sorry, but the refund situation is completely fair game for public criticism. Yes I understand AC (and the other airlines) rationale, and the business case for why they are not providing them. I also fully understand that providing everyone a refund with no governmental assistance may lead to airline bankruptcy. It still doesn’t justify what they are (not) doing.

Put simply, if any business in any industry refuses to provide someone the service for which they paid, and then also refuses to refund the customer using the excuse that providing said refund is financially hurtful to their bottom line... frankly they do deserve all the criticism received. Morally it is wrong, and legally it is probably is wrong too (though I am sure some creative lawyers can provide a loophole justification).
 
kavok
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 10:12 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:53 am

Sorry, but the refund situation is completely fair game for public criticism. Yes I understand AC (and the other airlines) rationale, and the business case for why they are not providing them. I also fully understand that providing everyone a refund with no governmental assistance may lead to airline bankruptcy. It still doesn’t justify what they are (not) doing.

Put simply, if any business in any industry refuses to provide someone the service for which they paid, and then also refuses to refund the customer using the excuse that providing said refund is financially hurtful to their bottom line... frankly they do deserve all the criticism received. Morally it is wrong, and legally it is probably is wrong too (though I am sure some creative lawyers can provide a loophole justification).
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:02 am

For YYB, I wonder if Porter takes a second look with AC now outta the way? Maybe 9 seaters with FlyGTA for the downtown biz pax crowd?

YYB still has a tiny bit of air service with Bearskin.

YYB’s problem, unlike all the other Northern Ontario cities is it’s too close to Toronto...especially YYZ given the proximity of hwy 400/11), so O&D to YYZ is way lower than the others. A biz case for YTZ, sans AC might be a bit better for O&D, given it can easily take an extra hour to get downtown from the 400 & 401 at ‘normal’ rush hour.

YYB is also too close to Ottawa for any meaningful connection traffic there, unlike say Ottawa-Toronto-Sudbury, where flying is still faster, even with a connection. Would not be surprised if YOW is the biggest connection O&D market for N. Ontario, apart from YYB.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Air Canada Discontinues Service on 30 Domestic Regional Routes and Closes Eight Stations in Canada

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:22 am

dr1980 wrote:
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-06-30-Air-Canada-Discontinues-Service-on-30-Domestic-Regional-Routes-and-Closes-Eight-Stations-in-Canada

That’s going to be a bit hit for Jazz and even worse for what flying Evas had left (I think all of EVAS’s flights are on the list?).

I wonder how “indefinite” many of these will end up being. I’d guess Maritime regional flying that’s currently happening on B1900’s is at risk of never coming back. Hopefully I’m wrong.


Once ops return to ‘normal-ish’, Jazz won’t be impacted much other than the routes they fly will shift somewhat. No doubt, they will backfill for all the mainline retirements.

Oddly enough, with YYC-YOW’s return tomorrow, I see that it’s being operated on a mainline 319. I guess a handful of mainline 319s aren’t retired yet?
 
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Vio
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:31 am

This hits very close to home for me, literally:
1. I live in Kingston, ON.
2. I feel terrible for my coworkers that may be affected by these cuts.

I loved flying the YYZ-YGK route so much, I ended up moving to Kingston with my wife and little girl. We, the airline workers, like many others have children to feed and bills to pay. These are dark times indeed for our beloved industry.

Edited for spelling...
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
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MarcoPoloWorld
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:17 am

First, let there be no doubt: Air Canada is a government-propped-up blood sucking operation. Domestic fares are highway-robbery level, and the nickel-and-diming would put even the US3 to shame. I have no particular horse in that game, as I am US based, but I do feel sorry for my Canadian friends and relatives who are subjected to the AC tyranny.

That being said, I can totally understand AC doing what they are doing now. National governments are playing to the lowest level of politics by applying draconian and unwarranted "border closures" and quarantine restrictions that have no effective impact on the covid epidemic whatsoever. Pure politics.

Hopefully, it will be a wake-up call to the powers-that-be there up north, but only time will tell.
 
Whiteguy
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Re: Air Canada Discontinues Service on 30 Domestic Regional Routes and Closes Eight Stations in Canada

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:42 am

Dominion301 wrote:
dr1980 wrote:
https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2020-06-30-Air-Canada-Discontinues-Service-on-30-Domestic-Regional-Routes-and-Closes-Eight-Stations-in-Canada

That’s going to be a bit hit for Jazz and even worse for what flying Evas had left (I think all of EVAS’s flights are on the list?).

I wonder how “indefinite” many of these will end up being. I’d guess Maritime regional flying that’s currently happening on B1900’s is at risk of never coming back. Hopefully I’m wrong.


Once ops return to ‘normal-ish’, Jazz won’t be impacted much other than the routes they fly will shift somewhat. No doubt, they will backfill for all the mainline retirements.

Oddly enough, with YYC-YOW’s return tomorrow, I see that it’s being operated on a mainline 319. I guess a handful of mainline 319s aren’t retired yet?


There are still more then a few routes being operated by the A319s, they are being retired but there’s in immediate timeline for it.
 
alo2yyz
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:53 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:19 am

shoelessjoe wrote:
Politicians are simply being politicians and pandering to people who want 1) low fares 2) an empty seat beside them and 3) all of it fully refundable. I am not unsympathetic to people who expect refunds, but these businesses have an obligation to try to stay in business -- and as a country Canada needs them to do so.


Oh, please.

First, politicians are hardly pandering. I don't see Garneau or Trudeau taking the airlines to task for high fares, selling all available seats, or the COVID refund situation.

Second, don't conflate AC/WS/TS et al illegally withholding refunds for services not rendered with the attitude that many (allegedly - someone show me a poll) have of "I want to cancel my flight and always be able to get a refund." Those are two entirely different things.

Canadian airlines are currently treating their pax like a bank. It's morally wrong. It's also illegal.

Beyond all of that, the station closures show one (of many) reasons why the vouchers the airlines are handy out are hardly equivalent to a refund. All those people in the closed stations now have useless vouchers, unless anyone fancies a drive from YGP to YQB.
 
robsaw
Posts: 443
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:49 am

PWA732 wrote:
Air Canada is held with distain by most Canadians. They seem to believe that they are a monopoly that is consistantly on the receiving end of taxpayer bailouts (wrong) and still Government held (wrong). AC, Westjet Transat and Sunwing are being literally strangled by the mandatory "police enforced" 14 day quarantine for returning passengers, even though safe corridors and "bubbles" exist and continue to expand. This blanket "lockdown" approach, and constantly moving goal posts (closer to zero tollerance, far beyond "curve flattening") of what is required to open transport is doing irreparable damage to the Canadian tourist/travel industry.

The avalanche of service cancellations to smaller widely spread out communities that rely on air travel is just beginning.

Pete.


I'll take my advice from experts in epidemiology. The current experience south of the border clearly indicates what happens when precautions are abandoned too early. There is nothing yet to demonstrate that safe international travel corridors or bubbles exist, although that may be approaching and planning is underway, but certainly not with transborder flights. In addition, there has been NO "constant moving of the goalposts"; the goalposts are a set of conditions - that the conditions haven't been satisfied and restrictions continue is not the goalpost moving that is the field stretching. While Canada has certainly flattened the curve that is irrelevant to international flights where the destination country (Including the USA) is quite the opposite.

If you think economic damage is bad under current conditions, opening too soon, and having to lockdown all over again would be catastrophic.
 
AAIL86
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:19 pm

PWA732 wrote:
Air Canada is held with distain by most Canadians. They seem to believe that they are a monopoly that is consistantly on the receiving end of taxpayer bailouts (wrong) and still Government held (wrong). AC, Westjet Transat and Sunwing are being literally strangled by the mandatory "police enforced" 14 day quarantine for returning passengers, even though safe corridors and "bubbles" exist and continue to expand. This blanket "lockdown" approach, and constantly moving goal posts (closer to zero tollerance, far beyond "curve flattening") of what is required to open transport is doing irreparable damage to the Canadian tourist/travel industry.

The avalanche of service cancellations to smaller widely spread out communities that rely on air travel is just beginning.

Pete.

Would you prefer to experience the dystopia south of the border? I live in Houston and I can tell you the line of cars at the clinic near my house is 100 cars long every time I drive by there. Our state governor rushed to re-open businesses in early May and now is back to shutting down. Looking at the charts of rolling recorded infections; Canada appear to have done well so far.
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamim Franklin
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:03 pm

MarcoPoloWorld wrote:
First, let there be no doubt: Air Canada is a government-propped-up blood sucking operation. Domestic fares are highway-robbery level, and the nickel-and-diming would put even the US3 to shame.


Really? So you're saying that AC is charging for seat selection and checked luggage on a full Y fare?
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Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:20 pm

These eliminations indicate which the least profitable routes were I suppose. It'll open up some space for smaller carriers to step in but I would expect no airfare reductions in the affected markets unfortunately. Of all the stations cut Kingston (around 125k population) surprises me the most-I would have thought there were meaningful transfer passenger numbers. In retrospect I guess that since most of the workforce is public sector there isn't much business traffic after all.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:37 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
These eliminations indicate which the least profitable routes were I suppose. It'll open up some space for smaller carriers to step in but I would expect no airfare reductions in the affected markets unfortunately. Of all the stations cut Kingston (around 125k population) surprises me the most-I would have thought there were meaningful transfer passenger numbers. In retrospect I guess that since most of the workforce is public sector there isn't much business traffic after all.


Not sure how things were in the last year or two, but the Kingston flights were not known for being the most reliable (delays/cancellations) or affordable. Most folk - especially the student crowd - tended to prefer YYZ, YUL and YOW. Admittedly not surprised by this one based on personal and anecdotal experience.
 
Dominion301
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:55 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
These eliminations indicate which the least profitable routes were I suppose. It'll open up some space for smaller carriers to step in but I would expect no airfare reductions in the affected markets unfortunately. Of all the stations cut Kingston (around 125k population) surprises me the most-I would have thought there were meaningful transfer passenger numbers. In retrospect I guess that since most of the workforce is public sector there isn't much business traffic after all.


The problem with YGK, and to a lesser extent YYB, is the lack of O&D to/from YYZ given their closeness to Toronto. It’s also no doubt why YZR was dropped. FlyGTA would seem like a perfectly sized outfit to fill the small O&D void in all of these markets.
 
Skywatcher
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:20 pm

A quick summary of the route cuts;

13 intra Atlantic Canada
1 Atlantic Canada to YUL
8 intra Quebec
3 intra Ontario
1 Ontario to YUL
2 intra Prairies
2 Prairies to YOW

Eastern Canada got whacked this time.
This is just another step in the long term trend of the hollowing out of non large urban centres in Canada, particularly in the east.
 
Dominion301
Posts: 2809
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:59 pm

Skywatcher wrote:
A quick summary of the route cuts;

13 intra Atlantic Canada
1 Atlantic Canada to YUL
8 intra Quebec
3 intra Ontario
1 Ontario to YUL
2 intra Prairies
2 Prairies to YOW

Eastern Canada got whacked this time.
This is just another step in the long term trend of the hollowing out of non large urban centres in Canada, particularly in the east.


...and add 2 Atlantic Canada to YOW. Amazing that YUL-YXU wasn’t cut given how it was only re-added a couple of years ago, while YXU-YOW operated continuously for over 40 years with double the capacity. That’s the route I think would come back first given it’s like 90% biz traffic with little competition.
 
brilondon
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:03 pm

WildcatYXU wrote:
MarcoPoloWorld wrote:
First, let there be no doubt: Air Canada is a government-propped-up blood sucking operation. Domestic fares are highway-robbery level, and the nickel-and-diming would put even the US3 to shame.


Really? So you're saying that AC is charging for seat selection and checked luggage on a full Y fare?

I agree with Mr. Wildcat. Firstly, Air Canada is not a blood sucking operation. Secondly the US3 tend to be more dispised by just about every person on the planet outside the United States.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2050
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:29 pm

brilondon wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:
MarcoPoloWorld wrote:
First, let there be no doubt: Air Canada is a government-propped-up blood sucking operation. Domestic fares are highway-robbery level, and the nickel-and-diming would put even the US3 to shame.


Really? So you're saying that AC is charging for seat selection and checked luggage on a full Y fare?

I agree with Mr. Wildcat. Firstly, Air Canada is not a blood sucking operation. Secondly the US3 tend to be more dispised by just about every person on the planet outside the United States.


I don’t think he meant the blood sucking bit literally. Metaphorically, though, it is an apt description of the sense of entitlement that the airline industry has right now - withholding refunds for services not delivered, from people who might be out of jobs in the middle of an economic (and health) crisis.

Not that the blame is entirely on them; the Government should have stepped in, forced refunds, and provided a bailout; certainly less egregious than some of the more random and questionable billion $ handouts that followed the EI and wage subsidy ones.

As for AC being better than the US3, that might have been true ten years ago, but pre-COVID AC spent the better part of the past decade building quite the reputation for filthy aircraft, appalling Y catering, poor on time performance, and comical IRROPs handling that forced the government to conjure up air passenger rights (if only for show). I don’t think the vast majority of Y passengers would put AC over DL or even UA anymore. Now if the US could sort out inbound transit procedures...
 
flyyul
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:43 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
brilondon wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:

Really? So you're saying that AC is charging for seat selection and checked luggage on a full Y fare?

I agree with Mr. Wildcat. Firstly, Air Canada is not a blood sucking operation. Secondly the US3 tend to be more dispised by just about every person on the planet outside the United States.


I don’t think he meant the blood sucking bit literally. Metaphorically, though, it is an apt description of the sense of entitlement that the airline industry has right now - withholding refunds for services not delivered, from people who might be out of jobs in the middle of an economic (and health) crisis.

Not that the blame is entirely on them; the Government should have stepped in, forced refunds, and provided a bailout; certainly less egregious than some of the more random and questionable billion $ handouts that followed the EI and wage subsidy ones.

As for AC being better than the US3, that might have been true ten years ago, but pre-COVID AC spent the better part of the past decade building quite the reputation for filthy aircraft, appalling Y catering, poor on time performance, and comical IRROPs handling that forced the government to conjure up air passenger rights (if only for show). I don’t think the vast majority of Y passengers would put AC over DL or even UA anymore. Now if the US could sort out inbound transit procedures...


Enough with the nonsense. This is the same pre-COVID Air Canada that;

-Won SkyTrax best airline in North America 8 out of the last 10 years
-Best Business Class in North America
-BEst Airline clealiness in North America
-Globe Traveller best airline in North America.

Became the TSX best performing stock on the index since 2010, and with over 50M customers per year.

Air Canada added over 100 new routes out of Canada over the last decade and create countless high paying jobs (pilots/mechanics/IT etc.). Air Canada is a Canadian champion - and absolutely over achieved in every aspect of putting Canada on the global aviation map. Name me one other Canadian company that created nearly 10,000 jobs in the 2010 to 2019 time frame - I dare you to find me ONE.

I've been reading you my dear ElPistolero for quite some time - and your axe to grind with Air Canada continues with the protectionism delusion over the ME3. If you're going to post, do so with integrity.
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:03 pm

ElPistolero wrote:
Not that the blame is entirely on them; the Government should have stepped in, forced refunds, and provided a bailout; certainly less egregious than some of the more random and questionable billion $ handouts that followed the EI and wage subsidy ones.


If only they had. Unfortunately the government was on their side:

Transport Minister Marc Garneau says that Canadian airlines could go bankrupt if the ailing industry is compelled to refund passengers billions of dollars for flights cancelled due to the pandemic.

...

"At the same time, if airlines had to immediately reimburse all cancelled tickets, it would have a devastating effect on the air sector, which has been reeling since the COVID 19 pandemic started."

...

"It is so essential for this country," he said. "This is the second largest country on Earth, with its distances and remote areas, and we expect and need an airline industry in this country."


https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5590392
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:26 pm

ElPistolero wrote:

- As for the consequences to shareholders, that is not a Government concern. They did not force anyone to invest in AC. They did not force AC to spend $800 million in share buybacks over the past few years, instead of banking it in a rainy day fund. One can still divest at well above $0.



I'll state the obvious: $800 million wouldn't even provide for two weeks of normal operating expenses. Not to mention they could always issue shares if they needed the cash (like UA did).

Airlines are looking at years of severely depressed revenues. No offense, but anyone who posits that airlines should have a rainy day fund for this scenario is ignorant of the economics in running an airline. This is a scenario that's never been seen in modern aviation. Pretty much no business can sustain a 90+% revenue loss for a sustained period (likely at least a year, depending on if/when a vaccine is available). Especially not a business that is only marginally profitable in good times and has high fixed costs.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:54 pm

flyyul wrote:

Enough with the nonsense. This is the same pre-COVID Air Canada that;

-Won SkyTrax best airline in North America 8 out of the last 10 years
-Best Business Class in North America
-BEst Airline clealiness in North America
-Globe Traveller best airline in North America.


Lol - you’re joking right?

If not, this is an aviation forum. We’re all quite aware of what a sham Skytrax is. There’s multiple threads on here.

But if you want to insist on taking it seriously:

AC Rouge is at what - 3/10 these days - and “not rated”. Seeing as it’s not that different to AC - kinda explains why AC Y is 4/10.

Seeing as most people fly Y...

flyyul wrote:
Became the TSX best performing stock on the index since 2010, and with over 50M customers per year..


Les foreign competition than the US. Less stringent safety rules than the US (cockpit duty hours). More compliant regulators than the US (see COVID 19 refunds)

Our lying eyes.

And that’s before you consider the $800 million odd that AC pumped into share buybacks over the past few years.

How many of the thousands of jobs laid off could that $800 million have paid for the next 1-3years of predicted hardship? A few thousand, I would imagine. Was it worth the TSX rating?

flyyul wrote:
Air Canada added over 100 new routes out of Canada over the last decade and create countless high paying jobs (pilots/mechanics/IT etc.). Air Canada is a Canadian champion - and absolutely over achieved in every aspect of putting Canada on the global aviation map. Name me one other Canadian company that created nearly 10,000 jobs in the 2010 to 2019 time frame - I dare you to find me ONE.


Lots to break down here so let’s do it logically.

- New routes/new jobs reflect demand. If there’s no one to fly on those routes, there is are no new routes or new jobs. Ten years ago, the AC crew here insisted there was no pent up demand - Canada was well-served - and consequently no requirement for more service to Canada. That new demand appeared somewhat mysteriously in the last few years. Or maybe it was there all along, and, ahem, some of your cohort weren’t posting with ...errr...”integrity“.

- The “Canadian Champion” bit is nonsense. I’ll just leave this quote from the then-Commissioner of the Competition Bureau:

“Aitken says Air Canada suggests it should be allowed to dominate parts of its home market to ensure it can thrive as a Canadian champion internationally. She rejects that economic strategy. “Canadian consumers and businesses,” she says, “ought not to pay the price for a company to be coddled at home so that it can stride about on the world stage.””

https://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/ahe ... mpetition/

- I’ll sum up by saying that any of the US3 would have done just as well, if not better, than AC with the same level of “Canadian Champion” support from Transport Canada - protectionism, less stringent cockpit duty rules etc. As I recall, the US3 have to have three pilots for JFK-FRA, while AC only has two? Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

- I don’t know where to look for who created how many jobs in the past 10 years, but I’m willing to wager good money that Shopify might beat that soon enough. Not that it means anything.

flyyul wrote:
I've been reading you my dear ElPistolero for quite some time - and your axe to grind with Air Canada continues with the protectionism delusion over the ME3. If you're going to post, do so with integrity.


And I’ve been reading my dear flyyul for quite some time. Including when you threatened a certain company’s pilots on...was it cockpit duty rules?

While we can all throw around words like “integrity. But this isn’t personal. As a consumer, the Canadian aviation market is fundamentally broken. If you’ve been reading my posts as carefully as you claim, you will have noticed that I increasingly hold Transport Canada - rather than AC - responsible for the mess. Can’t blame AC about making hay while the sun shines, but let’s be real about it: the suns only shining because the government allows it to.
Last edited by ElPistolero on Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ElPistolero
Posts: 2050
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:44 am

Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:11 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:

- As for the consequences to shareholders, that is not a Government concern. They did not force anyone to invest in AC. They did not force AC to spend $800 million in share buybacks over the past few years, instead of banking it in a rainy day fund. One can still divest at well above $0.



I'll state the obvious: $800 million wouldn't even provide for two weeks of normal operating expenses. Not to mention they could always issue shares if they needed the cash (like UA did).

Airlines are looking at years of severely depressed revenues. No offense, but anyone who posits that airlines should have a rainy day fund for this scenario is ignorant of the economics in running an airline. This is a scenario that's never been seen in modern aviation. Pretty much no business can sustain a 90+% revenue loss for a sustained period (likely at least a year, depending on if/when a vaccine is available). Especially not a business that is only marginally profitable in good times and has high fixed costs.


Actually, if we take AC’s own estimates, it was burning through 22 million a day in March.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/ ... -1.4923381

$800 million would carry it through 5 weeks. But that assumes that costs haven’t been cut significantly since then, so could be up to 2.5 months of March shutdown conditions. That’s not insignificant. If nothing else, it could have been used to retain some of the jobs it created.

AC has raised a few billion of the private market. The problem is that they’re also holding a couple of billion
$s of payments for products they have not delivered. That’s where this behaviour becomes ... unacceptable.

As to how the airline business is run, that is for airlines to decide. Or to be blunt, that isn’t any consumer’s problem. The point here is that airines shouldn’t be able to withhold refunds for services not rendered. Consumers should not be asked to provide interest free loans - especially in light of these share buy backs.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:51 pm

Airlinerdude wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
Not that the blame is entirely on them; the Government should have stepped in, forced refunds, and provided a bailout; certainly less egregious than some of the more random and questionable billion $ handouts that followed the EI and wage subsidy ones.


If only they had. Unfortunately the government was on their side:

Transport Minister Marc Garneau says that Canadian airlines could go bankrupt if the ailing industry is compelled to refund passengers billions of dollars for flights cancelled due to the pandemic.

...

"At the same time, if airlines had to immediately reimburse all cancelled tickets, it would have a devastating effect on the air sector, which has been reeling since the COVID 19 pandemic started."

...

"It is so essential for this country," he said. "This is the second largest country on Earth, with its distances and remote areas, and we expect and need an airline industry in this country."


https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5590392


The argument doesn’t make sense. If it really is “so essential” for Canada, then nationalize the sector under the ‘desperate times, desperate measures’ dictum. Alternatively, stop handing out billions to every conceivable demographic - regardless of need - and divert that to airlines and hotels instead. Going after one subset of consumers to prop up an industry is beyond absurd. My preference - should it come to that (and I don’t think it will) is nationalization.

I’m sure we’ll hear that nationalization is a bad thing. There’s truth in that - governments are generally more inefficient - but they’re also accountable. The OTP metrics, IRROPs handling etc, even permanently culling routes like these 30 - how many ministers would be happy having to justify all that to voters or their own MPs.

Who knows, maybe that alone will take AC from its current 4/10 on Skytrax to “inferior” Delta’s 5/10 on Skytrax (yeah, I don’t know what Skytrax’s logic is either).
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:24 pm

ElPistolero wrote:

Actually, if we take AC’s own estimates, it was burning through 22 million a day in March.



I realize AC isn't as large as any of the US3, but for example DL were quoted as burning rates of 100mil/day. I assumed AC would be a bit lower (maybe half), but not 22% of DLs costs. Frankly I'm impressed they can run the airline on 22mil/day. Is that before or after service pullbacks?

ElPistolero wrote:
As to how the airline business is run, that is for airlines to decide. Or to be blunt, that isn’t any consumer’s problem. The point here is that airines shouldn’t be able to withhold refunds for services not rendered. Consumers should not be asked to provide interest free loans - especially in light of these share buy backs.


Agree on the refunds issue.

The share buybacks are a red herring in the grand scheme of things. They can always issue more shares if they want. Won't be popular for the current shareholders, but if they're desperate it's an option.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
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MarcoPoloWorld
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:03 am

ElPistolero wrote:
brilondon wrote:
WildcatYXU wrote:

Really? So you're saying that AC is charging for seat selection and checked luggage on a full Y fare?

I agree with Mr. Wildcat. Firstly, Air Canada is not a blood sucking operation. Secondly the US3 tend to be more dispised by just about every person on the planet outside the United States.


I don’t think he meant the blood sucking bit literally. Metaphorically, though, it is an apt description of the sense of entitlement that the airline industry has right now - withholding refunds for services not delivered, from people who might be out of jobs in the middle of an economic (and health) crisis.

Not that the blame is entirely on them; the Government should have stepped in, forced refunds, and provided a bailout; certainly less egregious than some of the more random and questionable billion $ handouts that followed the EI and wage subsidy ones.

As for AC being better than the US3, that might have been true ten years ago, but pre-COVID AC spent the better part of the past decade building quite the reputation for filthy aircraft, appalling Y catering, poor on time performance, and comical IRROPs handling that forced the government to conjure up air passenger rights (if only for show). I don’t think the vast majority of Y passengers would put AC over DL or even UA anymore. Now if the US could sort out inbound transit procedures...


Thank you, ElPistolero, for helping set the record straight here.

For what it's worth, I did not intend to smudge our friends up north - on the contrary, I think you are great and that's why you deserve the same range of competitive and quality services that larger markets enjoy.
 
777luver
Posts: 21
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:06 am

flyyul wrote:
ElPistolero wrote:
brilondon wrote:
I agree with Mr. Wildcat. Firstly, Air Canada is not a blood sucking operation. Secondly the US3 tend to be more dispised by just about every person on the planet outside the United States.


I don’t think he meant the blood sucking bit literally. Metaphorically, though, it is an apt description of the sense of entitlement that the airline industry has right now - withholding refunds for services not delivered, from people who might be out of jobs in the middle of an economic (and health) crisis.

Not that the blame is entirely on them; the Government should have stepped in, forced refunds, and provided a bailout; certainly less egregious than some of the more random and questionable billion $ handouts that followed the EI and wage subsidy ones.

As for AC being better than the US3, that might have been true ten years ago, but pre-COVID AC spent the better part of the past decade building quite the reputation for filthy aircraft, appalling Y catering, poor on time performance, and comical IRROPs handling that forced the government to conjure up air passenger rights (if only for show). I don’t think the vast majority of Y passengers would put AC over DL or even UA anymore. Now if the US could sort out inbound transit procedures...


Enough with the nonsense. This is the same pre-COVID Air Canada that;

-Won SkyTrax best airline in North America 8 out of the last 10 years
-Best Business Class in North America
-BEst Airline clealiness in North America
-Globe Traveller best airline in North America.

Became the TSX best performing stock on the index since 2010, and with over 50M customers per year.

Air Canada added over 100 new routes out of Canada over the last decade and create countless high paying jobs (pilots/mechanics/IT etc.). Air Canada is a Canadian champion - and absolutely over achieved in every aspect of putting Canada on the global aviation map. Name me one other Canadian company that created nearly 10,000 jobs in the 2010 to 2019 time frame - I dare you to find me ONE.

I've been reading you my dear ElPistolero for quite some time - and your axe to grind with Air Canada continues with the protectionism delusion over the ME3. If you're going to post, do so with integrity.


Beautifully said. Amen.
 
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WildcatYXU
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:38 pm

MarcoPoloWorld wrote:

Thank you, ElPistolero, for helping set the record straight here.

For what it's worth, I did not intend to smudge our friends up north - on the contrary, I think you are great and that's why you deserve the same range of competitive and quality services that larger markets enjoy.


Maybe we should set the record straight on your stipulation about AC nickel and diming passengers worse than the US3. I'm traveling STX-STT-CLT-YYZ tomorrow. The airlines are 9K and AA (you know, one of the US3). The ticket is full fare flexible economy, issued by AA (you know, one of the US3). It did cost a buck or two. And guess what: I had to pay for seat assignment, I'll have to pay for my checked bag and will board with group 7. The same kind of ticket would give me an included preferred seat, 2 checked bags, boarding in zone 2 and 125% status miles. All that with priority check in and in happier times with an included BOB meal and lounge access for a price of 2 pints of beer. So who is nickel and diming?
310, 319, 320, 321, 321N, 332, 333, 343, 345, 346, 732, 735, 73G, 738, 744, 752, 762, 763, 77L, 77W, 788, AT4, AT7, BEH, C402, CR2, CRA, CR9, DH1, DH3, DH4, E45, E75, E90, E95, F28, F50, F100, MD82, Saab 340, YAK40
 
drgmobile
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:28 pm

tax1k wrote:
I’m definitely not a huge fan of AC but you have to realize that is a cross between an airline and a post office. It is required to service a number of locations all over Canada and in return essentially has a monopoly. I don’t know the legal details but I assume that the Canadian federal government can require service restorations to a number of locations with union employees before the next election.


This is absolutely not correct. Air Canada is a private corporation, under no obligation to serve any points it doesn't want to. If the company decided one day it only wanted to fly between Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver, it could do so.
 
ElPistolero
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:13 am

The Prime Minister has weighed in with some ...interesting language about these cuts:

"We are obviously disappointed by the decision by Air Canada to cut services to some regions. We know Air Canada profits from the most profitable routes in the country but we expect them to serve ... people who live in more distant regions," Trudeau told a news conference. “We hope they can gradually resume these services ... as the economy starts to recover”

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canad ... 57225.html

Boiler plate enough, but something about linking profits to “we expect them to serve”.... strikes me as... new?

The tone is not dissimilar to what the Liberal friendly Toronto Star published about these cuts yesterday.

“ In that sense, Air Canada is running afoul of the implicit understanding made 31 years ago when the crown corporation was allowed to go private.

While never spelled out, the political understanding then was that Air Canada would not abandon smaller communities entirely in its quest for profits.”

Sound familiar? He then goes on to say:

“Air Canada and other carriers want public money to tide them through the pandemic. Fine. But make any bailout conditional on re-regulating the industry. Insist that in return for being allowed to operate in high profit markets, air carriers, bus companies and railroads provide reasonably priced services to smaller communities.“

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contrib ... ation.html

I’m guessing AC/WS shareholders won’t be too happy if the Government follows through.
 
yzfElite
Posts: 47
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:34 am

ElPistolero wrote:
The Prime Minister has weighed in with some ...interesting language about these cuts:

"We are obviously disappointed by the decision by Air Canada to cut services to some regions. We know Air Canada profits from the most profitable routes in the country but we expect them to serve ... people who live in more distant regions," Trudeau told a news conference. “We hope they can gradually resume these services ... as the economy starts to recover”

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canad ... 57225.html

Boiler plate enough, but something about linking profits to “we expect them to serve”.... strikes me as... new?

The tone is not dissimilar to what the Liberal friendly Toronto Star published about these cuts yesterday.

“ In that sense, Air Canada is running afoul of the implicit understanding made 31 years ago when the crown corporation was allowed to go private.

While never spelled out, the political understanding then was that Air Canada would not abandon smaller communities entirely in its quest for profits.”

Sound familiar? He then goes on to say:

“Air Canada and other carriers want public money to tide them through the pandemic. Fine. But make any bailout conditional on re-regulating the industry. Insist that in return for being allowed to operate in high profit markets, air carriers, bus companies and railroads provide reasonably priced services to smaller communities.“

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contrib ... ation.html

I’m guessing AC/WS shareholders won’t be too happy if the Government follows through.


Yet nobody blinks when WS shows up in YQX and cancels after the summer or PD to YYT or WS to YXY for summers only. AC have managed to shoot themselves in the foot enough times to deserve the bad pr, but they are just a company trying to make a profit like any other. WS served YYG with a government subsidy to maintain service and YEG is king famous for enticing airlines other than AC. If folks want service they have to use it or pay for it.
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 714
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Re: Air Canada Cutting 30 Domestic Routes, 8 Stations

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:51 am

ElPistolero wrote:
The Prime Minister has weighed in with some ...interesting language about these cuts:

"We are obviously disappointed by the decision by Air Canada to cut services to some regions. We know Air Canada profits from the most profitable routes in the country but we expect them to serve ... people who live in more distant regions," Trudeau told a news conference. “We hope they can gradually resume these services ... as the economy starts to recover”

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/canad ... 57225.html

Boiler plate enough, but something about linking profits to “we expect them to serve”.... strikes me as... new?

The tone is not dissimilar to what the Liberal friendly Toronto Star published about these cuts yesterday.

“ In that sense, Air Canada is running afoul of the implicit understanding made 31 years ago when the crown corporation was allowed to go private.

While never spelled out, the political understanding then was that Air Canada would not abandon smaller communities entirely in its quest for profits.”

Sound familiar? He then goes on to say:

“Air Canada and other carriers want public money to tide them through the pandemic. Fine. But make any bailout conditional on re-regulating the industry. Insist that in return for being allowed to operate in high profit markets, air carriers, bus companies and railroads provide reasonably priced services to smaller communities.“

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contrib ... ation.html

I’m guessing AC/WS shareholders won’t be too happy if the Government follows through.


The political angle on this is that the Trudeau government wants to eventually win back a majority government, largely through winning a bunch more seats in Quebec. Being perceived as fighting for air service to the Quebec regions is good politics for them, and it's a good fight to pick. AC's eventually going to need some government assistance, and this may be the price of said assistance.

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