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SQ22
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Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:20 pm

Welcome to Indian Aviation Thread for July 2020. Please continue your discussion and to add your comments here.

Link to previous thread:

Indian Aviation Thread - June 2020
Last edited by SQ22 on Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:26 pm

Anyone know why Etihad is operating a 77W from ORD to BOM?
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CJBoy
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:05 pm

Royal Brunei Airline in India after 15 years!

https://youtu.be/XS3NMfEKhjk
 
voxkel
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:21 pm

According to AirlineRoute, UA will be switching EWR-DEL to a 789 and an afternoon departure (once covid is over). I believe the previous flight was (in February) the longest on the 77E. There will also be 3 repatriation flights on this new schedule on the 77W this coming week.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:52 am

voxkel wrote:
According to AirlineRoute, UA will be switching EWR-DEL to a 789 and an afternoon departure (once covid is over). I believe the previous flight was (in February) the longest on the 77E. There will also be 3 repatriation flights on this new schedule on the 77W this coming week.


Can you provide a link?
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hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:46 pm

voxkel wrote:
According to AirlineRoute, UA will be switching EWR-DEL to a 789 and an afternoon departure (once covid is over). I believe the previous flight was (in February) the longest on the 77E. There will also be 3 repatriation flights on this new schedule on the 77W this coming week.

If it is an afternoon departure, then the flight will arrive in the afternoon. So what is UA going to do at DEL, leave within 2 hrs and arrive late night at EWR (and forego most connections) or park at DEL till the current departure time and arrive in the morning.
 
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proudavgeek
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:37 pm

Tata group sole contender for Air India; govt not willing to extend bid deadline

There's only one interested bidder for Air India currently amid very uncertain circumstances, said sources. Also, the government may not want to extend the August 31 bid deadline for the fourth time.

- Tata Group has hired law firms to look at the Air India bid in the middle of the Covid19 pandemic
- Singapore Airlines has communicated to Tatas it does not want to join the bid for now. Tatas & Singapore Airlines have a JV for Vistara

Click on the link below for more info...
[url]https://www.timesnownews.com/business-economy/companies/article/exclusive-tatas-the-only-solo-contender-for-air-india-govt-not-keen-to-extend-bid-deadline/618508
[/url]
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:39 pm

There is a UA 782 (82 being the regular flight#) scheduled for July 11 leaving EWR 2:35PM. That is most likely a repatriation flight. I randomly checked United's site EWR-DEL RT in September (09/23-10/07) and that still shows a 77E departing EWR at night.

This is from Routes online but no timings:
Newark – Delhi eff 17JUL20 1 daily 787-9 (777-200ER from 03AUG20)
San Francisco – Delhi eff 18JUL20 3 weekly 787-9
Newark – Mumbai eff 08SEP20 1 daily 777-300ER

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... 20airlines
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:11 am

voxkel wrote:
According to AirlineRoute, UA will be switching EWR-DEL to a 789 and an afternoon departure (once covid is over). I believe the previous flight was (in February) the longest on the 77E. There will also be 3 repatriation flights on this new schedule on the 77W this coming week.

Are you sure the new schedule and equipment change is for the regular flights post-covid and not just for the repatriation flights operating this month?
While EWR-DEL switching to an afternoon departure makes sense for connections at the India end, it does not make any sense for DEL-EWR. The plane will either leave DEL in the afternoon with a night arrival in EWR with very little connections at EWR or will have to sit in DEL until the current departure time thereby leading to poor utilization of the aircraft.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:22 am

Looking at the fleet of Air India and its subsudiaries:

Alliance Air: 1 AT43, 18 AT76 (all leased)
Air India Express: 25 B738 (17 owned, 8 leased)
Air India: 22 A319 (19 owned, 3 leased), 9 A320 (4 owned, 5 leased), 27 A20N (all leased), 20 A321 (all owned), 4 B744 (1 leased, 3 owned), 3 B77L, 14 B77W (all 777s owned), 27 B788 (20 owned, 7 leased)

Vistara: 13 A320, 20 A20N, 6 B738 (all leased), 1 B789 (owned) (40 more A20Ns, 6 A21N, and 5 more B789s on order)

The B738s on the Vistara side will be gone within 3 years, and as I see it, the oddball AT43 should go as well; the AT76s would be needed for regional connections. The A319s could be interesting as the A20Ns are able to perform all of their missions (both Air India and Vistara are CFM customers for the A20N); there would be enough A20Ns on order (pending conversions to A21N) to replace the B738s (UK) and A319s (AI). The B77W could also be interesting depending on if Vistara would be interested in doing missions to North America or not; if not, then the B77L/B77W would be too much plane. It would be really interesting to see how many of the A20N orders get converted to the A21N. I do see the B738 staying on the Air India Express side; the owned frames are Y186 and the leased frames are Y189, and that's a separate AOC and pool. The result would be a fleet of AT76, B738 (with short field package), A320/A321/A20N/A21N, and B788/B789 (if the B77L/W is kept, they can be in 1 pilot pool with the B788/B789).
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:02 pm

The government is not selling Alliance Air (9I) and its fleet of ATRs, though.

Only AI and IX is up for sale.
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 am

I just checked on Skytrax Reviews of Vistara and Found out that Vistara has been rated 4 Stars by Skytrax....Im not surprised by the ratings but I wasnt expecting Vistara to be rated 4 Star on its very first evaluation..I mean Its a gradual process but they got 4 stars on their very first time..Great !

Finally South Asia has a 4 Star airline.
https://skytraxratings.com/airlines/vistara-rating

Its mentioned that UK has potential to be a future 5 Star and their review is based on their Narrowbody fleet ..They are yet to review their widebody 789 !

Congrats Team Vistara !
 
adi00654
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:19 am

According to PIB press conference there is an airbubble signed between US,FRANCE AND GERMANY.
Air France is going to operate 28 flights to DEL/BOM/BLR from 18th July 2020 to 1st August 2020.(Subject to go increase further in 3 weeks)
United is going as to operate DEL-EWR/SFO as filed in schedule according to Airlineroute.net
Delta has requested for 14 flights between 18 July 2020-1st August 2020.
Lufthansa has also sought permission so we can expect lufthansa commence schedule.
Further expect UAE/INDIA to extend these air bubble agreement.

someone can correct me if i am wrong anywhere...I was having a live press conference view of PIB and quoted the points from there.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:58 pm

adi00654 wrote:
According to PIB press conference there is an airbubble signed between US,FRANCE AND GERMANY.
Air France is going to operate 28 flights to DEL/BOM/BLR from 18th July 2020 to 1st August 2020.(Subject to go increase further in 3 weeks)
United is going as to operate DEL-EWR/SFO as filed in schedule according to Airlineroute.net
Delta has requested for 14 flights between 18 July 2020-1st August 2020.
Lufthansa has also sought permission so we can expect lufthansa commence schedule.
Further expect UAE/INDIA to extend these air bubble agreement.

someone can correct me if i am wrong anywhere...I was having a live press conference view of PIB and quoted the points from there.


thats great
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:15 pm

adi00654 wrote:
According to PIB press conference there is an airbubble signed between US,FRANCE AND GERMANY.
Air France is going to operate 28 flights to DEL/BOM/BLR from 18th July 2020 to 1st August 2020.(Subject to go increase further in 3 weeks)
United is going as to operate DEL-EWR/SFO as filed in schedule according to Airlineroute.net
Delta has requested for 14 flights between 18 July 2020-1st August 2020.
Lufthansa has also sought permission so we can expect lufthansa commence schedule.
Further expect UAE/INDIA to extend these air bubble agreement.

someone can correct me if i am wrong anywhere...I was having a live press conference view of PIB and quoted the points from there.


Are these regular commercial flights or are these still repatriation flights for citizens of either country?
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adi00654
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:44 am

airboss787 wrote:
adi00654 wrote:
According to PIB press conference there is an airbubble signed between US,FRANCE AND GERMANY.
Air France is going to operate 28 flights to DEL/BOM/BLR from 18th July 2020 to 1st August 2020.(Subject to go increase further in 3 weeks)
United is going as to operate DEL-EWR/SFO as filed in schedule according to Airlineroute.net
Delta has requested for 14 flights between 18 July 2020-1st August 2020.
Lufthansa has also sought permission so we can expect lufthansa commence schedule.
Further expect UAE/INDIA to extend these air bubble agreement.

someone can correct me if i am wrong anywhere...I was having a live press conference view of PIB and quoted the points from there.


Are these regular commercial flights or are these still repatriation flights for citizens of either country?


According to Civil Aviation minister these are not regular commercial but flights established through air bubbles and indicated that further until COVID gets down there will be flights only through air bubbles.Repatriation is gone word now..except for AI
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:44 pm

I am not sure what India doing is ethical under openskies agreement. Either this loophole in the name of pandemic need to be closed or US should withdraw from openskies.

The fundamental premise of openskies is no requests and/or no approvals. India is breaking this cardinal rule.

Article 11
Fair Competition

1. Each Party shall allow a fair and equal opportunity for the designated airlines of both Parties to compete in providing the international air transportation governed by this Agreement.

2. Each Party shall allow each designated airline to determine the frequency and capacity of the international air transportation it offers based upon commercial considerations in the marketplace. Consistent with this right, neither Party shall unilaterally limit the volume of traffic, frequency or regularity of service, or the aircraft type or types operated by the designated airlines of the other Party, except as may be required for customs, technical, operational, or environmental reasons under uniform conditions consistent with Article 15 of the Convention.

3. Neither Party shall impose on the other Party's designated airlines a first-refusal requirement, uplift ratio, 13 no-objection fee, or any other requirement with respect to capacity, frequency or traffic that would be inconsistent with the purposes of this Agreement.

4. Neither Party shall require the filing of schedules, programs for charter flights, or operational plans by airlines of the other Party for approval, except as may be required on a non-discriminatory basis to enforce the uniform conditions foreseen by paragraph 2 of this Article or as may be specifically authorized in an Annex to this Agreement. If a Party requires filings for information purposes, it shall minimize the administrative burdens of filing requirements and procedures on air transportation intermediaries and on designated airlines of the other Party.


https://2009-2017.state.gov/e/eb/rls/ot ... 114629.htm
All posts are just opinions.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:48 pm

Current Indian government restrictions, since it is temporary overrides any cardinal rules for the time being. United can also fly passengers to India and that they have follow the same permissions as passengers on AI.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:50 pm

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... india-exit

Regarding Air Asia India, as expected, both partners want to abandon this airline. But Tata appears to have the first choice. This airline will not survive in India and as such India has too much airlines anyway.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:00 am

Huge !!!

SpiceJet to Operate India-US flights

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp
 
FligtReporter
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:54 am

anshabhi wrote:
Huge !!!

SpiceJet to Operate India-US flights

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp



Im curious to know what Aircraft they are planing to operate these flights ? And when r they gonna get their Wide bodies for such ops...I guess may be in 2050 lolz
 
unnayan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:09 pm

FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Huge !!!

SpiceJet to Operate India-US flights

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp



Im curious to know what Aircraft they are planing to operate these flights ? And when r they gonna get their Wide bodies for such ops...I guess may be in 2050 lolz


Heard they are wet leasing A330 from Oman Air, but i dont think A330 can do INDIA-US Nonstop
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:41 pm

anshabhi wrote:
Huge !!!

SpiceJet to Operate India-US flights

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp


This will also allows them to codeshare potentially with a US airline. Such as Sahara did with AA on DEL-ORD before being bought by Jet.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:38 pm

unnayan wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Huge !!!

SpiceJet to Operate India-US flights

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp



Im curious to know what Aircraft they are planing to operate these flights ? And when r they gonna get their Wide bodies for such ops...I guess may be in 2050 lolz


Heard they are wet leasing A330 from Oman Air, but i dont think A330 can do INDIA-US Nonstop


Knowing Spicejet, they will probably slap a small sticker that says Spicejet with full Oman Air livery, operating with full Oman Air interior. They'll get just 1 aircraft with terrible reliability and take too long to figure out how to sell premium seats and what to call them before eventually making it all economy.

They will probably have to stop somewhere in Europe, so don't see the advantage of operating it unless they get local traffic rights. Even then, with traffic down so much, why would people fly an obscure airline from Europe to the US? Getting to the US right now for anyone not a citizen is almost impossible.

They need a 787 at the least to make non-stops work. Strange decision at this time especially for an airline with tight finances.
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VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:46 pm

unnayan wrote:
FligtReporter wrote:
anshabhi wrote:
Huge !!!

SpiceJet to Operate India-US flights

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 1.html/amp



Im curious to know what Aircraft they are planing to operate these flights ? And when r they gonna get their Wide bodies for such ops...I guess may be in 2050 lolz


Heard they are wet leasing A330 from Oman Air, but i dont think A330 can do INDIA-US Nonstop

They will need a stop in Europe. Oman Air bought NZ's LHR slots (to be vacated effective Oct 2020). That is a 10:00 arrival w/ 15:00ish departure. That will work nicely for the US. Not sure of the timings at the India end though.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:43 am

VTORD wrote:
They will need a stop in Europe. Oman Air bought NZ's LHR slots (to be vacated effective Oct 2020). That is a 10:00 arrival w/ 15:00ish departure. That will work nicely for the US. Not sure of the timings at the India end though.

I think you are reading too much into it. There is no way Spicejet is going to make this work given the current conditions. And that too with just one aircraft.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:20 am

This is primarily for India's repatriation effort, I think, for which a single, wet-leased wide-body might be okay. Sustainable scheduled flights are a different ballgame altogether.

Till now, Air India was the only local carrier to operate between India and the US, through the Vande Bharat Mission to repatriate Indian citizens.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:20 am

airboss787 wrote:

Getting to the US right now for anyone not a citizen is almost impossible.

They need a 787 at the least to make non-stops work. Strange decision at this time especially for an airline with tight finances.

Btw, even B1/B2 visa holders are allowed on vande bharat flights, both ways. You can go for meeting relatives in US if you're willing to take Corona associated risks.

There's nothing like repatriation in vande Bharat flights. They're commercial in every way.


Yes, even I am wondering how will SpiceJet manage to operate a wide body given its perpetually poor financial condition

Huh what's the probability of a 2 stop B737 like IST,KEF,JFK? They have got B738s which can do 4100 kms nonstop

Total flight time would be close to 18 hrs, (7hrs flying + 2 hrs turnaround) on each leg. They can change crew at both the steps

Don't ask me about legroom now _-_ it's repatriation flight _-_

Honestly people who need to go to either US/India for repatriation related reasons, they are already at their destination. The demand now is commerical
 
BOMFlyer
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:40 am

Regarding nonstop US flights, how far can Vistara's 787-9s fly given that they have 299 seats compared to the ~250 in an average B789?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:18 pm

As expected SpiceJet raising to the top even with its bleak financials, next we will learn someone will invest $Billions.
I think AI winding up process has started.
All posts are just opinions.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:09 pm

I suspect Spice Jet foray into US flights might be temporary for the repatriation or something similar effort. The US traffic is now solely with AI and to some extent UA and not many are going via Middle East or Europe, so they are looking at this opportunity. On a scheduled basis the US route is an ultra long haul not suited for airlines who do not even fly to Europe.

I wonder what Vistara do now. May be they will try too.
 
VTORD
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:29 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
I think you are reading too much into it. There is no way Spicejet is going to make this work given the current conditions. And that too with just one aircraft.

Oh I completely agree with you. I was just laying out the best case scenario for SG as you said with just one a/c. Idle speculation.

anshabhi wrote:
Btw, even B1/B2 visa holders are allowed on vande bharat flights, both ways. You can go for meeting relatives in US if you're willing to take Corona associated risks.

There's nothing like repatriation in vande Bharat flights. They're commercial in every way.

The whole B1/B2 allowed both ways thing is completely beyond me. Why would you want to risk flying 18+ hours to only be holed up at home? I think Puri overplayed his hand by constantly tweeting about VB and DoT got wind of the ruse of repatriation!

BOMFlyer wrote:
Regarding nonstop US flights, how far can Vistara's 787-9s fly given that they have 299 seats compared to the ~250 in an average B789?

I think the primary issue is that the initial 787s are not equipped with crew rest areas.
 
sabby
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:32 pm

BOMFlyer wrote:
Regarding nonstop US flights, how far can Vistara's 787-9s fly given that they have 299 seats compared to the ~250 in an average B789?


A 789 can fly for 17+ hours with 296 passengers and bags (assuming no headwinds and take off from sea level altitude). That puts pretty much all major airports of North America within range from DEL.
 
unnayan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:20 pm

 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:50 am

An Auditor had previously pegged the value of Fernandes' 49% stake at Rupees 550 crores (around $73 million).

Tony Fernandes trims AirAsia India exit price to $50 million amid Covid-19

The Tata group is in advanced talks to acquire AirAsia Group’s 49 per cent stake in their Indian joint venture airline, after the Malaysian company toned down its exit price to $50 million.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 024_1.html
 
debonair
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:49 am

SPICEJET will lease A330-900 for charter flights:
https://newsakmi.com/travel-news/spicej ... s-a330neo/
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:52 am

trinidadeG wrote:
An Auditor had previously pegged the value of Fernandes' 49% stake at Rupees 550 crores (around $73 million).

Tony Fernandes trims AirAsia India exit price to $50 million amid Covid-19

The Tata group is in advanced talks to acquire AirAsia Group’s 49 per cent stake in their Indian joint venture airline, after the Malaysian company toned down its exit price to $50 million.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 024_1.html


I wonder what happens then in regards to the brand, aircraft, and technical support (maintenance/website/admin) which is mostly owned/controlled/managed by the parent Co. AirAsia Bhd. Also, its known fact that AirAsia India pays a premium on lease rentals to the parent co. owned leasing company which provides aircraft to I5. Wonder how that would work out.
 
filipinoavgeek
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:59 am

avier wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
An Auditor had previously pegged the value of Fernandes' 49% stake at Rupees 550 crores (around $73 million).

Tony Fernandes trims AirAsia India exit price to $50 million amid Covid-19

The Tata group is in advanced talks to acquire AirAsia Group’s 49 per cent stake in their Indian joint venture airline, after the Malaysian company toned down its exit price to $50 million.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 024_1.html


I wonder what happens then in regards to the brand, aircraft, and technical support (maintenance/website/admin) which is mostly owned/controlled/managed by the parent Co. AirAsia Bhd. Also, its known fact that AirAsia India pays a premium on lease rentals to the parent co. owned leasing company which provides aircraft to I5. Wonder how that would work out.


Given what happened to AirAsia Japan 1.0 what could happen is that the planes go back to AirAsia while the Indian side acquires new aircraft and creates a new brand. Or they could just shut it down or merge whatever remains to Vistara.
RIP 9V-SKA
2007 - 2019
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:29 am

Bad news for SpiceJet...their auditor has given a going concern warning. In the 12 months prior to COVID-19's wreaking havoc on aviation, SG had lost about Rs 935 crore (US$125M).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-future

Meanwhile, SG is now on a "cash and carry" basis. https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 018_1.html

That said, would India want to see another carrier go down so soon after 9W did, especially one of India's only two 737 operators? A collapse of SG would basically leave 6E as the 500-pound gorilla in domestic operations, possibly garnering about half of the domestic market share, and basically leave India with just 5 players: 6E, G8, AI (and subsidiaries), I5, and UK.

(If I5 shuts down, I expect that the planes will go to UK with the B738 exit accelerated.)
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 10:47 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bad news for SpiceJet...their auditor has given a going concern warning. In the 12 months prior to COVID-19's wreaking havoc on aviation, SG had lost about Rs 935 crore (US$125M).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-future

Meanwhile, SG is now on a "cash and carry" basis. https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 018_1.html

That said, would India want to see another carrier go down so soon after 9W did, especially one of India's only two 737 operators? A collapse of SG would basically leave 6E as the 500-pound gorilla in domestic operations, possibly garnering about half of the domestic market share, and basically leave India with just 5 players: 6E, G8, AI (and subsidiaries), I5, and UK.

(If I5 shuts down, I expect that the planes will go to UK with the B738 exit accelerated.)


Those are just headline news. Banks continue to lend irrespective of its financial status and if I understand correctly Airport Authority already reversed the cash and carry decision.

In fact SG's wet leased wide body international operation is perfect for India. SG being just marketing carrier, it can avoid almost all taxes and duties. This is a remedy to burdening tax regime in India. I would expect SG to be more successful on int. ops than UK.
All posts are just opinions.
 
BOMLHR
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:34 pm

British Airways have opened booking to Mumbai and Delhi from 16th August, currently shows 2 flights a day from 17th August onwards.

Good news for passengers stuck both side who are looking to travel.

https://travelobiz.com/british-airways- ... ia-and-uk/
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:08 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bad news for SpiceJet...their auditor has given a going concern warning. In the 12 months prior to COVID-19's wreaking havoc on aviation, SG had lost about Rs 935 crore (US$125M).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-future

Meanwhile, SG is now on a "cash and carry" basis. https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 018_1.html

That said, would India want to see another carrier go down so soon after 9W did, especially one of India's only two 737 operators? A collapse of SG would basically leave 6E as the 500-pound gorilla in domestic operations, possibly garnering about half of the domestic market share, and basically leave India with just 5 players: 6E, G8, AI (and subsidiaries), I5, and UK.

(If I5 shuts down, I expect that the planes will go to UK with the B738 exit accelerated.)


Those are just headline news. Banks continue to lend irrespective of its financial status and if I understand correctly Airport Authority already reversed the cash and carry decision.

In fact SG's wet leased wide body international operation is perfect for India. SG being just marketing carrier, it can avoid almost all taxes and duties. This is a remedy to burdening tax regime in India. I would expect SG to be more successful on int. ops than UK.

Going concern is not just headline news. It effects access to international credit markets. At the very minimum, it means SpiceJet will be growth constrained on the other side.

Unfortunately, at this time, SpiceJet is a Zombie corporation. That means they are sucking up resources other companies (perhaps not airlines) need.

All news is SpiceJet is indeed on a cash and carry basis in India. I expect this will be the case at international airports too:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/aai-a ... 00389.html

I'd like to see a link on the good news.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:29 pm

Until I came to thus thread, I didn't know how bad SpiceJet us doing:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 38581.html

Only 50 crore in cash (6.65 m USD), a negative net worth of 1,579 crore (-210 million usd), and 700 crore of value is credits on the MAX which are only worth something during a growth phase.

Did I miss GoAir downgraded to BBB-?
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/in.news.yaho ... 41632.html

There will be brutal shakeups in the industry.

Lightsaber
I cannot wait to get vaccinated to live again! Warning: I simulated that it takes 50%+ vaccinated to protect the vaccinated and 75%+ vaccinated to protect the vac-hesitant.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:33 pm

filipinoavgeek wrote:
avier wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
An Auditor had previously pegged the value of Fernandes' 49% stake at Rupees 550 crores (around $73 million).

Tony Fernandes trims AirAsia India exit price to $50 million amid Covid-19

The Tata group is in advanced talks to acquire AirAsia Group’s 49 per cent stake in their Indian joint venture airline, after the Malaysian company toned down its exit price to $50 million.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 024_1.html


I wonder what happens then in regards to the brand, aircraft, and technical support (maintenance/website/admin) which is mostly owned/controlled/managed by the parent Co. AirAsia Bhd. Also, its known fact that AirAsia India pays a premium on lease rentals to the parent co. owned leasing company which provides aircraft to I5. Wonder how that would work out.


Given what happened to AirAsia Japan 1.0 what could happen is that the planes go back to AirAsia while the Indian side acquires new aircraft and creates a new brand. Or they could just shut it down or merge whatever remains to Vistara.


If Tata is going to shut down Air Asia India, then why even pay anything. Let it die a natural death. The only scenario is Tata to buy and keep the brand for a little longer, first form an alliance with Vistara, then slowly merge with Vistara.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:50 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Bad news for SpiceJet...their auditor has given a going concern warning. In the 12 months prior to COVID-19's wreaking havoc on aviation, SG had lost about Rs 935 crore (US$125M).

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... ets-future

Meanwhile, SG is now on a "cash and carry" basis. https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 018_1.html

That said, would India want to see another carrier go down so soon after 9W did, especially one of India's only two 737 operators? A collapse of SG would basically leave 6E as the 500-pound gorilla in domestic operations, possibly garnering about half of the domestic market share, and basically leave India with just 5 players: 6E, G8, AI (and subsidiaries), I5, and UK.

(If I5 shuts down, I expect that the planes will go to UK with the B738 exit accelerated.)


Those are just headline news. Banks continue to lend irrespective of its financial status and if I understand correctly Airport Authority already reversed the cash and carry decision.

In fact SG's wet leased wide body international operation is perfect for India. SG being just marketing carrier, it can avoid almost all taxes and duties. This is a remedy to burdening tax regime in India. I would expect SG to be more successful on int. ops than UK.

Going concern is not just headline news. It effects access to international credit markets. At the very minimum, it means SpiceJet will be growth constrained on the other side.

Unfortunately, at this time, SpiceJet is a Zombie corporation. That means they are sucking up resources other companies (perhaps not airlines) need.

All news is SpiceJet is indeed on a cash and carry basis in India. I expect this will be the case at international airports too:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/amphtml/aai-a ... 00389.html

I'd like to see a link on the good news.

Lightsaber


Your assessment is valid in a silo separating politics from aviation. Reality is different. As long as the airline has friends in right places, daily dose of bad news is irrelevant. SG will do just fine.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:29 am

lightsaber wrote:
Until I came to thus thread, I didn't know how bad SpiceJet us doing:
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 38581.html

Only 50 crore in cash (6.65 m USD), a negative net worth of 1,579 crore (-210 million usd), and 700 crore of value is credits on the MAX which are only worth something during a growth phase.

Did I miss GoAir downgraded to BBB-?
https://www.bing.com/amp/s/in.news.yaho ... 41632.html

There will be brutal shakeups in the industry.

Lightsaber


I knew that SG was doing badly...but I didn't know they were doing that badly! How does a company have a negative net worth of that much...Rs 15.79 crore lakh? Also interesting in that SG isn't part of a larger conglomerate.

If the government of India has to pick winners and losers honestly, I would say that the winners would be 6E (sheer market share...over 40 percent), IX/CD (the non-mainline part of AI), and UK, and CD. As for SG, I wonder if the DH8D operation would be worth saving for regional connectivity. G8 might survive given that it has never sought to grow fast.
 
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trinidadeG
Posts: 285
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 5:24 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
As long as the airline has friends in right places, daily dose of bad news is irrelevant. SG will do just fine.

Indeed.

SpiceJet gets slots at London Heathrow from September 1

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 343889.cms
 
royroy
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:48 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:59 am

trinidadeG wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
As long as the airline has friends in right places, daily dose of bad news is irrelevant. SG will do just fine.

Indeed.

SpiceJet gets slots at London Heathrow from September 1

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 343889.cms


Reading similar articles it sounds like daily slots that will be split amongst multiple destinations.

rumours of 1530 arrival, 1730 departure from LHR
 
pune
Posts: 405
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:47 am

The friends at high/right places does no good. There was a time when Jet Airways was the golden boy of the present Govt. but things quickly turned sour, why, how we don't know. I agree with @aemoreira1981's assessment to the point that all the other airlines except 6E will be under pressure but then so should 6E be. While it's hard to predict but any vaccine would be available only till next mid-year at the earliest. Frankly speaking, even the bubble bit is beyond me. Why would I take an international flight if I have to be under quarantine 15 days each way. In fact, it should be 28 days according to ICMR to rule out any possibility of transference and contact avoidance. And that is something that no sane person could afford. Even if one goes for a leisure trip anywhere it's not more than couple of weeks. To be cooped up inside an hotel room for 2 weeks esp. in a foreign land doesn't look good to me. I do not know who these people are who are booking the flights, no matter how great a deal they may be getting atm.

In either case, it seems this year will go just like that. The 737 Max debacle itself took a toll on people traveling and the general sentiment of recession globally, doesn't seem to make things easier for anybody. People would rather save than travel atm, with recession, job issues, employment and such.

I know it's a pessimistic outlook but that seems to be the reality as of date.
 
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Posts: 1260
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - July 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:49 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
voxkel wrote:
According to AirlineRoute, UA will be switching EWR-DEL to a 789 and an afternoon departure (once covid is over). I believe the previous flight was (in February) the longest on the 77E. There will also be 3 repatriation flights on this new schedule on the 77W this coming week.

Are you sure the new schedule and equipment change is for the regular flights post-covid and not just for the repatriation flights operating this month?
While EWR-DEL switching to an afternoon departure makes sense for connections at the India end, it does not make any sense for DEL-EWR. The plane will either leave DEL in the afternoon with a night arrival in EWR with very little connections at EWR or will have to sit in DEL until the current departure time thereby leading to poor utilization of the aircraft.


Aircraft sit waiting for the right departure times all over the world (look at US-Brazil flights). I think this is a great move for UA. Now UA can offer NYC customers a flight that has wide connection opportunities in India. If you need to go to DEL with a night departure from EWR, you can either fly on the BOM flight (which I bet has much more business fliers needing the late flight) and then connect to DEL OR fly the traditional routing via the EU. Right now UA can’t really offer connections in India because both the nonstops and EU flights all arrive at i midnight meaning pax wait until 6/7am to connect. Btw even US City-EWR-DEL-Indian city with the new timings is probably a good routing for many given how most flight arrive India isn’t he middle of the night. So IMHO, this schedule change makes a lot of sense.

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