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pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Aug 25, 2020 7:39 pm

Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 4:46 pm

HAWK21M wrote:
Last heard that Cash crunch exists for GoAir & SpiceJet.
With Vaccine available in the country earliest Nov 2020, until then its going to be LWP, Paycuts & Layoffs.
Customer/Passenger confidence will take time to grow, so not before Nov 2020, thereafter with the Economic situation bad, very few might opt to tour.
WFH is reducing business travel.
Commercial Airlines,Tourism & Hotels are all Interlinked
Tough times ahead


SpiceJet will make it out this somehow. It has obtained rights to fly to LHR and is cashing in on the bubble flights now. Air Asia India and GoAir are the most vulnerable. Air Asia India is almost a goner.

GoAir's best hope is that it gets acquired by someone, but since Indigo has now more than 50% market share, quite likely GoI wont allow Indigo to take over GoAir. A merger with SpiceJet or TruJet or one of the Tata's airlines is the best hope.
 
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CPS001
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:33 pm

hohd wrote:
HAWK21M wrote:
Last heard that Cash crunch exists for GoAir & SpiceJet.
With Vaccine available in the country earliest Nov 2020, until then its going to be LWP, Paycuts & Layoffs.
Customer/Passenger confidence will take time to grow, so not before Nov 2020, thereafter with the Economic situation bad, very few might opt to tour.
WFH is reducing business travel.
Commercial Airlines,Tourism & Hotels are all Interlinked
Tough times ahead


SpiceJet will make it out this somehow. It has obtained rights to fly to LHR and is cashing in on the bubble flights now. Air Asia India and GoAir are the most vulnerable. Air Asia India is almost a goner.

GoAir's best hope is that it gets acquired by someone, but since Indigo has now more than 50% market share, quite likely GoI wont allow Indigo to take over GoAir. A merger with SpiceJet or TruJet or one of the Tata's airlines is the best hope.


While GoAir is in the red their owners are doing pretty well financially so I won't be surprised if they are able to swallow the losses at least a little longer. They *could* merge with Vistara for fleet simplicity but I don't see Vistara being interested since they're loss making as it is.

TruJet is doing quite badly as well, last I heard a majority of their fleet was grounded due to non payment of lessor dues. They are currently only flying a handful of Udan routes with two ATRs. They might be the first to go, followed by AirAsia.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:38 pm

Please see the link below. Does anyone have the answers?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1450933
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:40 pm

CPS001 wrote:
hohd wrote:
HAWK21M wrote:
L Air Asia India is almost a goner.
.

evidence or opinion?
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:12 pm

pune wrote:
Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.


He says at 9:00 in the video that if the airport at Navi Mumbai is developed, "there is going to be absolutely no traffic in Mumbai because you can't have two airport in such a short distance". :roll:
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:26 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
He says at 9:00 in the video that if the airport at Navi Mumbai is developed, "there is going to be absolutely no traffic in Mumbai because you can't have two airport in such a short distance". :roll:


absolutely and he shared an example that when the new airport will be made, then probably the old airport will be shut down as has happened in other places as well. He also cited how Singapore Changi airport had shutdown one of its runways as it doesn't expect to see international aviation to be back to its former glory for another half a decade. The most interesting point however I felt was the leasing of all aircraft is in dollars so even if we had domestic aviation at full strength (unlikely) it wouldn't work until international aviation is back at full strength.

Unfortunately what he didn't share was also that politically we are at the weakest and isolated. This can be garnered from the U.S. travel advisory to its citizens to not travel to India, whether it is just due to covid or also the China issue dunno. I am sure lot of other countries would also base their travel advisories on what U.S. has done -

https://in.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-se ... formation/

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel ... isory.html
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:29 pm

CPS001 wrote:
While GoAir is in the red their owners are doing pretty well financially so I won't be surprised if they are able to swallow the losses at least a little longer. They *could* merge with Vistara for fleet simplicity but I don't see Vistara being interested since they're loss making as it is.


The Tatas and the Wadia's aren't on good terms post the Cyrus Mistry episode. I don't see GoAir merging with a Tata airline unless that situation changes. Resolve your differences: Supreme Court to Tata, Wadia



This old news report (from 2018) says the Wadias had previously attempted to get the Tata's on board GoAir pre-2014, but the Tata's went along with Tony Fernandes and started Air Asia India.

It is believed that before the Tatas launched their joint venture budget airline, AirAsia India, with Malaysian entrepreneur Tony Fernandes that started operations in 2014, the Wadias wanted to align their airline business with the Tatas and were in discussions to offload stake in GoAir.

The talks did not materialise and the Tatas decided to go with brand AirAsia to fly in India

https://www.financialexpress.com/infras ... s/1378222/
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 6:42 pm

pune wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
He says at 9:00 in the video that if the airport at Navi Mumbai is developed, "there is going to be absolutely no traffic in Mumbai because you can't have two airport in such a short distance". :roll:


absolutely and he shared an example that when the new airport will be made, then probably the old airport will be shut down as has happened in other places as well.


BLR and HYD are vey poor examples to compare the situation in Mumbai.
Shutting of those old city airports when the greenfields opened was part of the plan from the beginning. On the other hand, running both CSIA and NMIA simultaneously has always been the plan - so much that a metro rail is being planned between them! NMIA is meant to supplement BOM's capacity, not replace it, even accounting for COVID19.
NMIA will at best be capable of 20MPA in its first phase. I'm not sure how that would result in BOM which was (handling 40-45MPA pre COVID) to have 'absolutely' no traffic.

I'm not sure how many 'facts' are being expressed in that video, really. I feel it bordered on Conspiracy theory. I mean, you can't just take an AAI airport and milk it it for real-estate any more than what has already been assigned as Non-aeronautical use.
 
airboss787
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:29 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
pune wrote:
Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.


He says at 9:00 in the video that if the airport at Navi Mumbai is developed, "there is going to be absolutely no traffic in Mumbai because you can't have two airport in such a short distance". :roll:


He is knowledgeable but seems to lack credibility. I usually don't really take him very seriously.
Star Alliance Gold
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:38 am

He is like Pravin Sawnhey of Force India, there are some who are appreciable of Mr. Sawnhey's talents, others dismiss him. In Civil Aviation you hardly get people who talk straight. In some ways airports is very close to railways and hence lot of points that could be made or unmade for rail privatization can be perhaps made for airports too -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP95Frc0v4k
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 1:12 pm

It appears there is a concerted effort to make newcomer Adani be the leading airport operator in the country. Won six airports in one go, now 3 Kerala airports and nudging GVK to sell BOM stake to them. I have a feeling that GVK and GMR are getting the boot. Of course everything is up and up with current government.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:39 pm

pune wrote:
Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.


I Agree....to bounce back to 2019 levels....it would take till 2025.
The real test is Will Pax confidence increase post Vaccine availability & would people want to travel considering Economical hardships
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
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HAWK21M
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 5:42 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
pune wrote:
Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.


He says at 9:00 in the video that if the airport at Navi Mumbai is developed, "there is going to be absolutely no traffic in Mumbai because you can't have two airport in such a short distance". :roll:


Navi Mumbai Airport Practically is a Corroded board announcing its construction......Sadly
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Vimanav
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:51 pm

HAWK21M wrote:
pune wrote:
Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.


I Agree....to bounce back to 2019 levels....it would take till 2025.
The real test is Will Pax confidence increase post Vaccine availability & would people want to travel considering Economical hardships


I dont think it will take that long. Unlike a natural disaster or war where there is widespread destruction of life, infrastructure, airports, etc. no such thing has happened here. Its just that the world went on a 6 month holiday. The day a vaccine is available the bounce back will begin and begin big. At that time (unless we humans really screw it up with another virus or war or some similar shit) expect a massive aviation boom. None of the current events are going to slow India hitting the 3rd largest aviation market tag in 2025 or thereabouts as forecasted pre-COVID.

Having said that, every morning i really try to convince myself that SG actually got themselves an A340 freighter even if its P2C :)

brgds//Vimanav
Sarfaroshi kii tamannaa ab hamaare dil mein hai, Dekhnaa hai zor kitnaa baazu-e-qaatil mein hai
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 1:38 am

Vimanav wrote:
HAWK21M wrote:
pune wrote:
Just saw this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGznP1m0uZY Pretty relevant for what the future holds for aviation at least in India. According to Mr. Rangnathan it would take five years to bounce back. And I think he's bang on target. India is not going to be safe for international tourism till we don't have cheap covid vaccine and a huge vaccination program. All the other points that he shared have merit too. Especially the cover-up for the recent accident which happened in the tabletop runaway.


I Agree....to bounce back to 2019 levels....it would take till 2025.
The real test is Will Pax confidence increase post Vaccine availability & would people want to travel considering Economical hardships


I dont think it will take that long. Unlike a natural disaster or war where there is widespread destruction of life, infrastructure, airports, etc. no such thing has happened here. Its just that the world went on a 6 month holiday. The day a vaccine is available the bounce back will begin and begin big. At that time (unless we humans really screw it up with another virus or war or some similar shit) expect a massive aviation boom. None of the current events are going to slow India hitting the 3rd largest aviation market tag in 2025 or thereabouts as forecasted pre-COVID.

Having said that, every morning i really try to convince myself that SG actually got themselves an A340 freighter even if its P2C :)

brgds//Vimanav


Sad to say I would have to agree with Hawk on this one, allow me to elaborate. What we would need is cheap, effective and a huge program for the vaccine as and when it comes. Then we hope although there is no preparation or prior knowledge to know but we hope that the virus does not mutate. Most viruses mutate which may render the vaccine ineffective or whatever. To take an e.g. see the Ebola virus, it has already mutated 300 times, there are others which have mutated less, some have mutated more. Just as a reference point -

https://www.businessinsider.in/Ebola-Ha ... 892253.cms

Coronavirus itself has mutated in about 30 odd strains in the last 6 months or so.

https://www.foxnews.com/science/coronav ... tudy-finds

Looking at our unpreparedness and even before that the preceding six quarters of slowdown don't give me any confidence. The only market which is going up is the share market but that too is more or less because people are buying stocks as if there is no tomorrow. Somebody had calculated and shared that just looking at the nifty stocks (top 50) if you just look at the dividend to whatever they are investing, the return is 33:1 i.e. for every 33 Rupees, the person may earn INR 1. But again these are all tertiary subjects or topics. In any case, unless the overall business sentiment doesn't recover, don't see things changing anytime soon.
 
unnayan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:57 am

Inaugural Vistara DEL-LHR service has landed in London... Hoping this to be a permanent change

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/uk15
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:23 am

India allows airlines to serve meals on board, in-flight entertainment permitted
https://www.cnbctv18.com/aviation/india ... 759711.htm

Right in time when Vistara launched their long-haul int'l ops.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:39 pm

Adani trying to kick GVK out of airport business. It is a shame government of India trying to nudge out infrastructure developer like GVK, who took over a dump like BOM and turned into one of the world's best airports.

The group controlled by billionaire Gautam Adani plans to acquire the 50.5 % stake held by the GVK Group in MIAL and a further 23.5% from GVK’s minority partners—Airports Company South Africa (ACSA) and the Bidvest group, giving it majority control of the second-busiest airport in the country, according to the report. The remaining 26% stake is held by state-run Airports Authority of India (AAI).

https://www.livemint.com/companies/peop ... 37525.html

IMHO, experienced players shouldn't be kicked out by a newcomer without any airport management experience. They will not invest further in India and take their experience somewhere else.

Adani vs GVK vs GMR. Gautam Adani wants to be the king of airports and the battlelines are drawn

Behind paywall.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/pr ... s?from=mdr
All posts are just opinions.
 
142857
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:31 pm

unnayan wrote:
Inaugural Vistara DEL-LHR service has landed in London... Hoping this to be a permanent change

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/uk15


.
The return flight seems to be at 8:55 AM local time tomorrow; meaning VT-TSD will sit at LHR for 26 hours ??

Probably same crew-set to operate return flight ??
.
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:10 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Adani trying to kick GVK out of airport business. It is a shame government of India trying to nudge out infrastructure developer like GVK, who took over a dump like BOM and turned into one of the world's best airports.

The group controlled by billionaire Gautam Adani plans to acquire the 50.5 % stake held by the GVK Group in MIAL and a further 23.5% from GVK’s minority partners—Airports Company South Africa (ACSA) and the Bidvest group, giving it majority control of the second-busiest airport in the country, according to the report. The remaining 26% stake is held by state-run Airports Authority of India (AAI).

https://www.livemint.com/companies/peop ... 37525.html

IMHO, experienced players shouldn't be kicked out by a newcomer without any airport management experience. They will not invest further in India and take their experience somewhere else.

Adani vs GVK vs GMR. Gautam Adani wants to be the king of airports and the battlelines are drawn

Behind paywall.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/pr ... s?from=mdr


thank you for sharing that. Especially in light of what GOI is doing, asking CBI to indict the GVK group with charge of siphoning of funds. I am sure many will say it's just pure 'coinicidences' but of late such coincidences at least from the last 2-3 years have been happening more and more. Under the guise of nationalism what GOI is doing is just giving rise to new monopolies. Even if the licensee make any mistakes, no worries till they can fund NDA via electoral bonds and nobody being wiser. For reference -

https://qz.com/india/1593577/modis-elec ... ng-opaque/

Sadly, in India whatever step the Govt. takes is for its own survival rather than good governance.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:11 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Adani trying to kick GVK out of airport business. It is a shame government of India trying to nudge out infrastructure developer like GVK, who took over a dump like BOM and turned into one of the world's best airports.

IMHO, experienced players shouldn't be kicked out by a newcomer without any airport management experience. They will not invest further in India and take their experience somewhere else.


It's just business at the end of the day, IMO.

While its true that they're only just starting out in the airports management business, we're now hearing news that Adani is roping in foreign sub-contractors, presumably to overcome those specific challenges.

Adani has chosen Flughafen Munchen GmbH to manage Mangalore airport, (IXE) after floating a global tender for the same.

https://www.deccanherald.com/state/mang ... 77834.html

What stops them from bringing, for example, Singapore Changi on board to manage BOM?
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 5:18 pm

Indian Airports Traffic for Top 10 cities for 2019-2020. It decreased from the previous fiscal year (-1.1%), primarily due to covid shutdown in late March. If there was no COVID (and assuming March 2019 and 2020 traffic were same), there would have been a small increase of about 2%. Source AAI Traffic News

OVERALL VS 2018-19 (%)
(millions)
1 DEL 67.30 -2.8
2 BOM 45.87 -6.0
3 BLR 32.36 -2.8
4 MAA 22.27 -1.2
5 CCU 22.02 0.6
6 HYD 21.65 1.2
7 AMD 11.43 2.3
8 COK 9.62 -4.9
9 GOA 8.36 -1.3
10 PNQ 8.09 -10.9

DOMESTIC
1 DEL 49.47
2 BOM 33.52
3 BLR 27.78
4 CCU 19.08
5 HYD 17.73
6 MAA 16.47
7 AMD 9.11
8 PNQ 7.93
9 GOA 7.65
10 GUW 5.42

INTERNATIONAL
1 DEL 17.83
2 BOM 12.36
3. MAA 5.80
4. COK 4.68
5. BLR 4.58
6 HYD 3.92
7 CCU 2.94
8 CCJ 2.70
9 AMD 2.32
10 TRV 2.21
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:56 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Adani trying to kick GVK out of airport business. It is a shame government of India trying to nudge out infrastructure developer like GVK, who took over a dump like BOM and turned into one of the world's best airports.

IMHO, experienced players shouldn't be kicked out by a newcomer without any airport management experience. They will not invest further in India and take their experience somewhere else.


It's just business at the end of the day, IMO.

While its true that they're only just starting out in the airports management business, we're now hearing news that Adani is roping in foreign sub-contractors, presumably to overcome those specific challenges.

Adani has chosen Flughafen Munchen GmbH to manage Mangalore airport, (IXE) after floating a global tender for the same.

https://www.deccanherald.com/state/mang ... 77834.html

What stops them from bringing, for example, Singapore Changi on board to manage BOM?


With Adani you never know, they have been less than honest in their dealings everywhere as this shows -

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-27/ ... e/12602472

While it is a different subject matter it does show what a corporate entity Adani is say vis-a-vis the Tatas who have been far more responsible even though they are also multinational. If they had been operating an airport for sure you would see professional competence as they are operating one side of the business (the Airline) .
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:17 pm

So, did Adani spur the Govt investigations into GMR/GVK so that they would be pressured to sell Mumbai Airport to Adani?
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:19 pm

unnayan wrote:
Inaugural Vistara DEL-LHR service has landed in London... Hoping this to be a permanent change

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/uk15


Load factor for the inaugural flight?
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Aug 28, 2020 9:26 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Adani has chosen Flughafen Munchen GmbH to manage Mangalore airport, (IXE) after floating a global tender for the same.
...
What stops them from bringing, for example, Singapore Changi on board to manage BOM?


What happened to Atmanirbhar(self-reliant) Bharat(India) mission? When GVK/GMR are able to build and operate airports in other countries, what is the need to bring in an intern with no experience and spruce up with foreign expertise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmanirbhar_Bharat

Compare how GMR handled HYD(VOHS) project and Zurich Airports handled BLR(VOBL) project. There is no evidence foreign expertise is going make any difference.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:25 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Adani has chosen Flughafen Munchen GmbH to manage Mangalore airport, (IXE) after floating a global tender for the same.
...
What stops them from bringing, for example, Singapore Changi on board to manage BOM?


What happened to Atmanirbhar(self-reliant) Bharat(India) mission? When GVK/GMR are able to build and operate airports in other countries, what is the need to bring in an intern with no experience and spruce up with foreign expertise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmanirbhar_Bharat


Not sure why you're bringing in Atmanirbharwhatever on an aviation forum.


GMR/GVK are definitely capable companies. But they need to bid competitively in order to win contracts.

GMR had also bid for all six airports alongside Adani. But they lost.

Privatisation: GMR, Adani bid for all 6 AAI airports

GVK is too poor to expand its airport business and is now looking to raise cash to prevent the Adanis from taking over BOM.

https://www.dealstreetasia.com/stories/ ... rt-203752/
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:34 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Adani has chosen Flughafen Munchen GmbH to manage Mangalore airport, (IXE) after floating a global tender for the same.
...
What stops them from bringing, for example, Singapore Changi on board to manage BOM?


What happened to Atmanirbhar(self-reliant) Bharat(India) mission? When GVK/GMR are able to build and operate airports in other countries, what is the need to bring in an intern with no experience and spruce up with foreign expertise.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmanirbhar_Bharat


Not sure why you're bringing in Atmanirbharwhatever on an aviation forum.


GMR/GVK are definitely capable companies. But they need to bid competitively in order to win contracts.

GMR had also bid for all six airports alongside Adani. But they lost.

Privatisation: GMR, Adani bid for all 6 AAI airports

GVK is too poor to expand its airport business and is now looking to raise cash to prevent the Adanis from taking over BOM.

https://www.dealstreetasia.com/stories/ ... rt-203752/


Because you bought in foreign expertise topic. Is aviation excluded from self-reliant India mission?

Three is a pattern emerging here of only friends being capable others not. India will have just SpiceJet and Adani run airports.
All posts are just opinions.
 
edealinfo
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:45 pm

According to Economic times newspaper Air Asia India is on a shaky wicket (auditors have expressed concerns of the business as a going

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 814453.cms

Article is behind a paywall. Can someone who has access please summarize?
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:11 pm

seems another twist in the tale, UAE’s Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (ADIA), India’s National Investment and Infrastructure Fund (NIIF), and Canada’s Public Sector Pension (PSP) Investments -- have served legal notice to the GVK group, saying the stake sale in MIAL would be a breach of the agreement they had signed last year.

https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 854_1.html
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:04 pm

There is no Government order that says Indian companies cannot hire foreign expertise. Hiring a non-indian company for its expertise does not make India less self reliant. By that logic, Changi Airports should not have been allowed to take up the development of Durgapur Airport and the project should have been given to either GMR and GVK!!
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:35 pm

SpiceJet isn't getting to dominate India just yet......

Post lockdown, IndiGo widens lead over competitors by adding more flights

While IndiGo operated 50% of the total flights during July, the airline’s share increased to about 56% during August, according to data accessed by ET. At the same time, the share of the second largest domestic carrier, SpiceJet, fell to 14.7% in August from 15.5% in the previous month.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Aug 31, 2020 5:02 pm

HAL’s Dornier is all set to get new wings, Flybig wings

Flybig, a regional airline that is gearing up to have its first commercial flight by mid-October under the Ude Desh ka Aam Naagrik (UDAN) project, would become the first airline to launch a new service in the Covid-19 era.

The airline that is promoted by Big Charter has received a No Objection Certificate from the Ministry of Civil Aviation and is in the process of getting Air Operators Certificate with a fleet of aircraft comprising ATR-72-500s and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)-manufactured Dornier Do-228 (Upgraded) civil aircraft.

“As we will be operating under the UDAN scheme, we would have flight services to many sectors in the North East and Central India which are typically not airports but airstrips where the ATRs cannot operate. The 17-seater Dornier Do-228 is an ideal aircraft to operate from these sectors,” Rajarshi Sen, CFO, Big Charter Pvt. Ltd told Bangalore Mirror. He added that the airline has been holding talks with HAL to get three Do-228s as a committed order and three more as an optional order.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/ ... 839769.cms
 
pune
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:43 am

Analysis: UDAN 4.0 is an improved version but still comes up short

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 92511.html

It talked of two companies, Air Taxi and Flybig . It has asked how Air Taxi will be subsidized as it will have only 3 seats as well as sustainable. FWIW I did get a newsletter from Indigo and it said they flew about 1.2 million passengers in July but failed to mention where, throughout the network or just in India, nothing shared. Hence very light on details.
 
hohd
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:05 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
HAL’s Dornier is all set to get new wings, Flybig wings

Flybig, a regional airline that is gearing up to have its first commercial flight by mid-October under the Ude Desh ka Aam Naagrik (UDAN) project, would become the first airline to launch a new service in the Covid-19 era.

The airline that is promoted by Big Charter has received a No Objection Certificate from the Ministry of Civil Aviation and is in the process of getting Air Operators Certificate with a fleet of aircraft comprising ATR-72-500s and the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)-manufactured Dornier Do-228 (Upgraded) civil aircraft.

“As we will be operating under the UDAN scheme, we would have flight services to many sectors in the North East and Central India which are typically not airports but airstrips where the ATRs cannot operate. The 17-seater Dornier Do-228 is an ideal aircraft to operate from these sectors,” Rajarshi Sen, CFO, Big Charter Pvt. Ltd told Bangalore Mirror. He added that the airline has been holding talks with HAL to get three Do-228s as a committed order and three more as an optional order.

https://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/ ... 839769.cms


This is not a good time to start an airline. Even in best times, many Indian carriers struggle, especially the smaller UDAN reliant types. The glamour of the airline industry is attracting new entrants, but they are not looking at history.
 
avier
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:05 pm

Not seen any post here yet; but flights pan-India has been increased to 60% of regular levels and airports like Mumbai have allowed flight movements to double to 200 per day (100 arrivals/departures). Similar for Chennai/Kolkata.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 894403.cms
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:29 pm

BLR recorded 307 ATMs a day on 04/09, highest since 25/05/2020.

Wrt Intl Traffic at BLR..... here a sample.....

a) QR Cargo numbers (P2C flights only)
b) LH Pax loads and cargo
c) AF Pax loads and Cargo

QATAR Airways P2C recorded 55 ATMs at BLR in AUG 2020. A mix of B77W and A359 was deployed to BLR in AUG.
DOH-BLR Cargo= 770.372 Metric Tonnes (MT)
BLR-DOH Cargo= 1632.703 MT
Number includes Transit Cargo. Figures do not include Qatar Airways Freighter ops (A33F)

2) FRA-BLR pax in AUG= 980 ( No Arrival passengers till 14th AUG on LH)
FRA-BLR Cargo= 150.523 MT
BLR-FRA pax in AUG= 2778 (Dep pax allowed for the whole of AUG)
BLR-FRA Cargo= 224.749 MT
FRA-BLR revenue flights in AUG= 12
BLR-FRA revenue flights in AUG= 19 (Full Month)
Pax figures include O&D and Transit. LH deployed A333 a/c to BLR with varied freq in AUG; initially 3x and increased to 5x weekly,

3) CDG-BLR pax in AUG= 1877
CDG-BLR Cargo= 90.578 MT
BLR-CDG pax in AUG= 2383
BLR-CDG Cargo= 291.781 MT
Total AF ATMs in AUG= 16; AF had deployed A359 to BLR in AUG.

AF 1st A359 to BLR pax breakup 21J/16W/139Y= 188 including 12 INF
Avg 58% PLF in the cabin
62% PLF on Business Class (J)
67% on Premium Economy (W)
52% on Economy Class (Y)

1ST DAY OF AIR FRANCE A350-9 AT BLR
Image

Image

Good to be back :)
 
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CPS001
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:58 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Good to be back :)


Good to have you back.

I saw the tweets about the new cargo complex at BLR with a large allocation to DHL, also saw that DHL/Aerologic seem to have much more ops at BLR than say MAA. Was hoping you know if there was a specific reason for this given that MAA is the hub of Blue Dart which is DHL's India partner. Was MAA approached at all for a dedicated cargo facility like at BLR, or was BLR the first choice and if so, why? Appreciate your insights.
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:18 pm

CPS001 wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Good to be back :)


Good to have you back.

I saw the tweets about the new cargo complex at BLR with a large allocation to DHL, also saw that DHL/Aerologic seem to have much more ops at BLR than say MAA. Was hoping you know if there was a specific reason for this given that MAA is the hub of Blue Dart which is DHL's India partner. Was MAA approached at all for a dedicated cargo facility like at BLR, or was BLR the first choice and if so, why? Appreciate your insights.



The new complex is actually built for Intl Express Cargo for DHL and FedEx. The express cargo market is growing at around 18%-25% since past 3 years. This is due to the E-Commerce Boom at BLR, the likes of Amazon, Flipkart etc being based here. Basically demand was very high from the Freight Forwarders etc in the city and nearby catchment area. So DHL and FedEx wanted to expand their ops at BLR. Hence they had requested to expand their presence in the airport.Even ECIC is setting up shop there.
DHL and FedEx fly only to BLR in South India due to this. As DHL and FedEx have established a facility here since many years. I did hear they wanted to expand to nnew markets such as MAA and HYD aswell, but AFAIK they chose BLR due to the growth rate being higher, airside infra, airport Marketing, airport catchment area, faster Turn-around time recorded by W/Bs at BLR and land availability.

This is one of the main reason why 3S and LH Cargo operate more cargo flights to BLR than MAA. But im not 100% sure. But this is what I am aware of since a few years. I believe the airport is in talks with 2 major Cargo Carriers since a year.
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:44 pm

I forgot to add the following points:-

1) To boost cargo movement, BLR has strengthened connectivity to catchment areas with the introduction of a dedicated road feeder service under the brand name "LOGI Connect by BLR". This service connects the South Indian cities of Tirupur, Coimbatore, Ambur, Salem, Erode, Hyderabad and Chennai to BLR Airport, establishing BLR Airport as South India’s preferred cargo gateway.

2) BLR is the first airport in India to have implemented a Variable Tariff Plan (VTP). Over the years, BLR has worked with various domestic carriers to enable the setup of their primary or secondary hub at BLR, which, in turn, supports the ‘transit-hub’ model. With the development of a D-D transshipment facility at BLR Airport, Ive heard the airport helps airlines to perform ‘hub-and-spoke’ operations at BLR Airport even for Cargo.

3) The airport has opened a Public Bonded Warehouse within the Cargo facility. This is a first-of-its-kind ‘on-Airport Public Bonded Warehouse’ in India, operational 24×7. This facility is expected to support the re-export of goods, long-term storage of bonded cargo, assist partial clearances, allow value added services by the supply chain, etc. from the Airport campus.

4) To provide a dedicated handling facility for express courier shipments, the country’s first dedicated Express Courier Terminal is under construction, and scheduled to be operational by the end of 2020. This terminal will house some of the world’s best-known courier players such as DHL Express, UPS, EICI and FedEx at a dedicated facility, thereby offering additional benefits to the Bengaluru Metropolitan Region.

5) To facilitate the needs of the trucking community at BLR, the airport is developing India’s first on-airport, dedicated truck management facility. This facility will provide various features like fueling, restaurant, medical, rest areas, etc.

So I think these things will pull airlines or business towards BLR than say MAA and/or HYD. Im not much into Cargo ops but yeah This is what I am aware of right now. I have seen Mobile shipment Cargo heading from MAA to DEL via BLR due to faster processing times. I hope this helps! :)
 
SATexan
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:55 am

HAWK21M wrote:
Last heard that Cash crunch exists for GoAir & SpiceJet.

I had not seen you post here in many years. Good to see you again!
 
unnayan
Posts: 224
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:10 am

sand26391 wrote:
BLR recorded 307 ATMs a day on 04/09, highest since 25/05/2020.

Wrt Intl Traffic at BLR..... here a sample.....

a) QR Cargo numbers (P2C flights only)
b) LH Pax loads and cargo
c) AF Pax loads and Cargo

QATAR Airways P2C recorded 55 ATMs at BLR in AUG 2020. A mix of B77W and A359 was deployed to BLR in AUG.
DOH-BLR Cargo= 770.372 Metric Tonnes (MT)
BLR-DOH Cargo= 1632.703 MT
Number includes Transit Cargo. Figures do not include Qatar Airways Freighter ops (A33F)

2) FRA-BLR pax in AUG= 980 ( No Arrival passengers till 14th AUG on LH)
FRA-BLR Cargo= 150.523 MT
BLR-FRA pax in AUG= 2778 (Dep pax allowed for the whole of AUG)
BLR-FRA Cargo= 224.749 MT
FRA-BLR revenue flights in AUG= 12
BLR-FRA revenue flights in AUG= 19 (Full Month)
Pax figures include O&D and Transit. LH deployed A333 a/c to BLR with varied freq in AUG; initially 3x and increased to 5x weekly,

3) CDG-BLR pax in AUG= 1877
CDG-BLR Cargo= 90.578 MT
BLR-CDG pax in AUG= 2383
BLR-CDG Cargo= 291.781 MT
Total AF ATMs in AUG= 16; AF had deployed A359 to BLR in AUG.

AF 1st A359 to BLR pax breakup 21J/16W/139Y= 188 including 12 INF
Avg 58% PLF in the cabin
62% PLF on Business Class (J)
67% on Premium Economy (W)
52% on Economy Class (Y)

1ST DAY OF AIR FRANCE A350-9 AT BLR
Image

Image

Good to be back :)


Thanks for the insights. The AF A359 looks beautiful, an awesome snap
 
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CPS001
Posts: 268
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:22 am

sand26391 wrote:
I hope this helps! :)


Good to know, thanks!

I was hoping it was not a case of MAA being approached first but talks failed like with AirAsia India. Now that BLR has slightly overtaken MAA for the 3rd spot in cargo handling, let's see if the lead will be maintained. MAA is reworking their cargo area too by expanding the storage area and repositioning plane stands but they are bound by a lack of land.
 
sand26391
Posts: 704
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:32 am

@unnayan Thanks! ^^As long as there is a healthy competition.. its good for both BLR. MAA and HYD.

INDIGO MRO UPDATE AT BLR

Image

Image

Image
 
sabby
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:39 pm

@sand26391 Thanks for the data. Did LH ever operate the A333 at BLR before ? I remember seeing 748 / 744 for so long. Nice to see AF deploy A359 instead of 772/77W. Any data about KLM ?
 
sand26391
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:51 pm

No, LH has never operated the A333 to BLR before.
KLM data I shall will post later, as they just operate 2 weekly flights; but more or less the same like LH. LHR doing well numbers show.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:36 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
It's just business at the end of the day, IMO.

It is NOT business when Govt agencies are favoring one entity over other more experienced established players. It is also not the Govt's job to use govt investigative agencies to launch fake raids to take out the competitors of one entity again to benefit one specific company known to be close to the regime.



You wont see this even in China. But it is common across the third world . India finds itself in august company - with countries like Burundi, Ghana, and Thailand where such practices are the norm!

Adani has ZERO experience in the airports business. Infact, he was late to the bidding as well but has since leap frogged to the front?

Imagine if Trump's buddy Sean Hannity decided to start an airline tomorrow. And Trump mama launched FBI investigations into Delta's airbus deal, holding a gun to their head until they relinquished their slots at XYZ airport? Would that be considered "business as usual" in any civilized country? ;)
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
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trinidadeG
Posts: 319
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:02 am

BawliBooch wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
It's just business at the end of the day, IMO.

It is NOT business when Govt agencies are favoring one entity over other more experienced established players. It is also not the Govt's job to use govt investigative agencies to launch fake raids to take out the competitors of one entity again to benefit one specific company known to be close to the regime.

"favouring one entity"
"Fake raids"?
"Established players"?

Much wow.

We all know of these allegations, but nothing is proven as of now. And I doubt it ever will be. Every multinational company has "learned" how to do business in India. Thats the "business" i refer to. Thanks.
 
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trinidadeG
Posts: 319
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Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:24 am

edealinfo wrote:
So, did Adani spur the Govt investigations into GMR/GVK so that they would be pressured to sell Mumbai Airport to Adani?


GVK doesn't actually 'own' Mumbai Airport. The airport is still owned by the Indian Government via the Airports Authority of India (AAI). GVK Airport Developers Limited holds a 50% equity stake in Mumbai International Airport Limited (MIAL), the Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) created to operate the airport. The remaining stake in the SPV is held by AAI, Bidwest and Airports Company South Africa (ACSA).

GVK being the largest stake-holder has been the face of the airport. However their precarious financial condition has been known for years.
GVK’s debt repayment problem - Aug 2015
The company's habit of over-leveraging is known to the market.
Hyderabad-based power and infrastructure company GVK Power & Infrastructure was once projected to become a Rs 1,00,000 crore company.
Today, it has a Rs 2,000 crore market capitalisation. That’s what debt does to you when you overdo it.


Cut to 2020, nobody is surprised that they're having to let go of BOM. As 'The Mint' pointed in July, Why GVK is on a wing and a prayer, this so-called "Established Player" was already in the process of selling a stake in GVK Airport Developers to third parties to raise funds.

Irked by a long delay in its proposed exit from Mial, Bidvest has moved the court against GVK’s move to sell 79.1% in its GVK Airport Holdings to three new investors—National Investment and Infrastructure Fund (NIIF), PSP Investments of Canada, and the Abu Dhabi Investment Authority (ADIA). Bidvest has argued that since GVK Airport Holdings owns 50.5% in Mial, any change in the holding company will reduce GVKPIL’s stake and give substantial indirect stake to the new investors.


So, what has actually changed on the ground now?
Adani group has entered into an agreement to acquire the debt of GVK Airport Developers Limited, which holds 50.50 per cent equity stake in MIAL. The Adani Group will also take steps to complete the acquisition of a 23.5 per cent equity stake from Airport Company South Africa and Bidvest in MIAL for which it has obtained CCI approval. Once these transactions are complete, Adani will hold 74 per cent stake in MIAL. The balance is held by Airports Authority of India. Adani also intends to infuse funds into MIAL to ensure that the airport receives much-needed liquidity and also achieves financial closure of Navi Mumbai International Airport to be able to commence construction.


https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/co ... 484211.ece

Adani (or some large, interested business house) taking over the airport was inevitable, IMO.

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