Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
User avatar
BawliBooch
Posts: 1549
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:21 am

trinidadeG wrote:
"favouring one entity"
"Fake raids"?
"Established players"?


Favoring one entity - Adani.
Established player - GVK, entity who (currently) owns the leases

Putting pressure on established players - CBI, which is under the central Govt, launches an investigation and filed spurious corruption cases against GVK promoters.
CBI Case Against GVK Group, Airports Authority

Within a month(31-Aug-2020), the GVK group promoters sell their stakes to Adani and the case magically disappears!

Adanis acquire GVK’s stake in Mumbai airport

Overnight, Adani becomes the largest private player in the airports business. Much wow!

trinidadeG wrote:
We all know of these allegations, but nothing is proven as of now. And I doubt it ever will be. Every multinational company has "learned" how to do business in India. Thats the "business" i refer to.


There is enough circumstantial evidence to show what is going on. And you should not normalise corruption by dismissing it with a "this is how business is done"!

Without a level playing field and fair practices, India can never hope to grow!
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:25 pm

Im not too comfortable discussing this topic on circumstantial evidence. I think I'll just stick to quoting notable sources in mainstream media . Thanks.

The real story behind Adani-Mumbai Airport deal

Unhappy with the 10-month delay in closing the deal to sell 80 per cent stake in its airport holding company to PSP of Canada, ADIA and NIIF, the GVK group decided to open talks with the Adani group in the last two weeks in order to avert a major financial crisis by August end.

“The Adani group offered to not only take over the loans of the GVK airport holding company worth Rs 5,000 crore, but also MIAL's (Mumbai International Airport Ltd) debt of another Rs 6,000 crore and infuse funds in the Navi Mumbai airport project so that the stalled project could take off.

"This gave confidence to GVK to sign the deal with Adani,” said a banker privy to the deal.

https://www.rediff.com/business/report/ ... 200908.htm
 
User avatar
BawliBooch
Posts: 1549
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:24 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:32 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
Im not too comfortable discussing this topic on circumstantial evidence. I think I'll just stick to quoting notable sources in mainstream media . Thanks.


The links I quoted are from NDTV and Telegraph - both of which are definitely mainstream and definitely not Fox News. :) Who is credible? Republic? Swarajya?

Even according to the link you shared, it is clear that GVK wanted to get a foreign partner which was stifled by the corrupt govt machinery. Ofcourse, now that Adani has taken over, all regulatory hurdles have disappeared!

This example shows that India is not yet ready for competing on the world stage. Foreign investors get the message that its best to steer clear of the corrupt Indian because your investment will never be safe.

This Adani character is a controversial character - google for Adani and his deals in Australia. He thought he could buy over Australian politicians just like he did with the Modi Govt. Didnt go too well! His other projects in ASEAN and Europe are also stalled. And this is the man that the Indian govt has entrusted Indias 7 largest airports to!
Mr.Kapoor's favorite poodle!
 
freqflyer
Posts: 100
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2006 12:34 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 7:21 am

BawliBooch wrote:
The links I quoted are from NDTV and Telegraph - both of which are definitely mainstream and definitely not Fox News. :) Who is credible?


Both your sources "reported" fake news on the Reliance deal with Dassault regarding offsets.

Regarding regulatory hurdles disappearing, it is because Adani is an Indian company. Every country regulates sale of their strategic assets to foreign companies. Adani runs its private ports quite well.

If BOM airport operator is in trouble because of diversion of funds, to ascribe political motives to that seems ridiculous. A lot of companies have been forced to pay back the banks by selling off their crown jewels.Just because it never happened before does not mean that this govt is wrong.

please keep politics out of this thread.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:03 am

BawliBooch wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
Im not too comfortable discussing this topic on circumstantial evidence. I think I'll just stick to quoting notable sources in mainstream media . Thanks.


The links I quoted are from NDTV and Telegraph - both of which are definitely mainstream and definitely not Fox News. :) Who is credible? Republic? Swarajya?

It's interesting to note that the articles that you shared have pretty much stuck to their headlines - "CBI case against GVK" and "Adani acquires GVK stake". The articles didn't even say the two events are connected, let alone allege some political involvement/ corruption. The Telegraph article even mentions GVK's weak financial position. They're not really supporting your stand. Sorry.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:39 am

BawliBooch wrote:
Overnight, Adani becomes the largest private player in the airports business. Much wow!

Apart from the political aspect, I think Adani topic is being given too much importance.

India has around 100 odd operational airports. Until last year, Less than a dozen were privately operated. Only the biggest two airports - Delhi and Mumbai were brownfield airports leased out on OMDA contracts. The other 'privately run' airports are greenfield airports which operate independently of Airports Authority of India.

Adani has only taken over six airports on an OMDA. These six airports are nowhere in size compared to the big Six (other big airports being BLR, HYD, MAA, CCU) of India! While the "Big Six" airports are above 20MPA, the largest airport that Adani has bagged is Ahmedabad - which is only 11MPA. (2019 figures) The smallest is Mangalore which is not even 2MPA!

After Adani bagged all six airports that AAI put up for OMDA's, Mint reported in January that the government might cap airport contracts to 'two per firm'.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/gov ... 51363.html

There are still more than a hundred opportunities for GVK and GMR or whoever to "take up some dump and turn into a world class airport", really. No need to fixate on 7 airports being run by Adani.
 
User avatar
CPS001
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:09 pm

United to start ORD-DEL from Dec 2020 and SFO-BLR from Spring 2021. Both daily B789.
 
VTORD
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:20 pm

Beat me to it!! Boy!! I did not see that SFO-BLR coming.....

Congratulations to United, BLR and DEL!!! Sucks to be BOM suppose...not getting any love
 
sand26391
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:24 pm

So finally, 2 American Carriers operating to BLR.. what a dream come true. Huge news for South India passengers traveling to and from US West Coast. Goodluck UA and AA
 
airboss787
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:51 pm

CPS001 wrote:
United to start ORD-DEL from Dec 2020 and SFO-BLR from Spring 2021. Both daily B789.

Isn’t it winter 2020? Where did you get December?
Star Alliance Gold
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3630
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:57 pm

airboss787 wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
United to start ORD-DEL from Dec 2020 and SFO-BLR from Spring 2021. Both daily B789.

Isn’t it winter 2020? Where did you get December?


United says winter, but I’d be surprised if it starts before December.
 
User avatar
SQ22
Moderator
Topic Author
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:29 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:16 pm

CPS001 wrote:
United to start ORD-DEL from Dec 2020 and SFO-BLR from Spring 2021. Both daily B789.


Here is a link to a source:

United Airlines Strengthens Global Network, Adding New Nonstops to Africa, India and Hawaii

To avoid deletion, please always provide a link to your soruce when stating facts. Thanks.
 
User avatar
CPS001
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 09, 2020 5:52 pm

Ishrion wrote:
airboss787 wrote:
CPS001 wrote:
United to start ORD-DEL from Dec 2020 and SFO-BLR from Spring 2021. Both daily B789.

Isn’t it winter 2020? Where did you get December?


United says winter, but I’d be surprised if it starts before December.


United said December on social media.

https://twitter.com/1/status/1303710365793038337
 
debonair
Posts: 4205
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 10:50 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 10:31 pm

Sorry if discussed before, VISTARA latest B787-9 c/n 62729 & 62733 are heading to VCV for storage. More infos regarding the future available?
 
airboss787
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:31 pm

debonair wrote:
Sorry if discussed before, VISTARA latest B787-9 c/n 62729 & 62733 are heading to VCV for storage. More infos regarding the future available?


Both those aircraft were NTU by Vistara. Ex-Hainan aircraft that were NTU by Hainan as well. Not sure anyone except Vistara and Boeing know why they did not accept these aircraft. They were transferred to Vistara before they said they didn’t want them. They are now just sitting around waiting for someone to buy them.
Star Alliance Gold
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 6:56 am

debonair wrote:
Sorry if discussed before, VISTARA latest B787-9 c/n 62729 & 62733 are heading to VCV for storage. More infos regarding the future available?


Seems like Vistara might have chosen to not go beyond operating a fleet of 2 B789s until global travel restrictions are relaxed. Here is an article from June 2020 which probably hinted at the 'cap' of two aircraft.

“An airline requires at least two aircraft to start any international route. The B787-9 was meant to start Delhi-London or Tokyo sector for Vistara but now given the travel restrictions globally one does not know which could be the launch medium haul destination for the airline. But whatever the destination, Vistara can start that route with two B787s in its fleet,” said sources.

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/bus ... 417446.cms
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sat Sep 12, 2020 2:59 pm

Vistara increases Delhi – London flights from late-Sep 2020

Vistara from late-September 2020 plans to increase Delhi – London Heathrow service, with the addition of 4th weekly flight.
From 27SEP20, the new service operates on Sundays, with Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft.

UK015 DEL0215 – 0655LHR 789 x246
UK016 LHR1535 – 0415+1DEL 789 x246

Current schedule is listed until 24OCT20. Winter schedule on/after 25OCT20 remains pending.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... -sep-2020/
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 1182
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:56 am

UA may have already driven AI out of ORD.
As per the OAG thread, AI is discontinuing DEL-ORD from April 2021.
I realize it is a few months away and AI may change schedules later but I will not be surprised if AI is out of ORD.
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:24 am

SpiceJet reports net loss of Rs 593 crore.

SpiceJet had a negative net worth of Rs 2,170 crore as on June 30, 2020.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ma ... 128665.cms
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:29 am

Air India sale : Centre may drop debt condition to sweeten the deal
The debt relates to aircraft related debts, which was earlier included as part of the sale, to be absorbed by the buyer.
https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/busin ... 39641.html

Air India must be privatised or it will close down: Hardeep Singh Puri
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/in ... 131595.cms
 
VTORD
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:43 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
UA may have already driven AI out of ORD.
As per the OAG thread, AI is discontinuing DEL-ORD from April 2021.
I realize it is a few months away and AI may change schedules later but I will not be surprised if AI is out of ORD.

I think it is an error. In the same post check DEL-JFK and BOM-EWR. They are identical to DEL-ORD. I find it difficult to believe that AI would drop all 3 of their long standing US routes at the same time without explanation. DEL-ORD let's say can be explained to UA's new route but what gives on the other 2? And what are they going to do with all the 77Ws that these cuts will free up? ORD has been around since before AI moved their hub whole and sole to DEL. I find it hard to believe that AI will just decide to walk away from it just because UA announced the flight. Doesn't make sense. Even for AI.

IAD...sure. I recall reading a particular article about delayed flight which had a really poor load factor but not sure if that persisted as a pattern or was a one off. But I could see scaling back a 788 service and deploy it to DEL-EWR. I am not current with what their 77W situation is given that 2 have now officially left service to transport the VIPs.
 
hohd
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:02 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
UA may have already driven AI out of ORD.
As per the OAG thread, AI is discontinuing DEL-ORD from April 2021.
I realize it is a few months away and AI may change schedules later but I will not be surprised if AI is out of ORD.


I doubt this, until AI actually does this. AI has been competitive on this route and this route continues to HYD. This route is not a slam dunk for UA as it could face headwinds. A lot of the connecting traffic to India for UA within US already goes via EWR and ORD will capture only a portion of it. The Indian population within US is growing more in TX and GA as compared to IL.
 
User avatar
Irehdna
Posts: 434
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:40 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:34 pm

IIRC these new UA flights will be on a higher MTOW 789 subfleet with Polaris cabins. AI might be able to fill a plane, but their yields will be horrible given their circa 2007 2-3-2 product.

I actually wouldnt be surprised if AI gives up NA all together, given the UA/AC/UK partnership they compete against. The fact that they haven't updated their 777s is telling.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:00 pm

VTORD wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
UA may have already driven AI out of ORD.
As per the OAG thread, AI is discontinuing DEL-ORD from April 2021.
I realize it is a few months away and AI may change schedules later but I will not be surprised if AI is out of ORD.

I think it is an error. In the same post check DEL-JFK and BOM-EWR. They are identical to DEL-ORD. I find it difficult to believe that AI would drop all 3 of their long standing US routes at the same time without explanation. DEL-ORD let's say can be explained to UA's new route but what gives on the other 2? And what are they going to do with all the 77Ws that these cuts will free up? ORD has been around since before AI moved their hub whole and sole to DEL. I find it hard to believe that AI will just decide to walk away from it just because UA announced the flight. Doesn't make sense. Even for AI.

IAD...sure. I recall reading a particular article about delayed flight which had a really poor load factor but not sure if that persisted as a pattern or was a one off. But I could see scaling back a 788 service and deploy it to DEL-EWR. I am not current with what their 77W situation is given that 2 have now officially left service to transport the VIPs.


You beat me to it. The person just saw the flight not appearing and said it is being canceled. EWR-BOM. DEL-JFK, DEL-SFO don’t show up. Lots of AI flights don’t show up. Not cancelled just schedule not posted
 
airboss787
Posts: 302
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:39 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:25 pm

Irehdna wrote:
I actually wouldnt be surprised if AI gives up NA all together, given the UA/AC/UK partnership they compete against. The fact that they haven't updated their 777s is telling.


The assumption that Air India is going to give up North America is just ridiculous. They have been flying these routes for more than 10 years and have managed to drive out both Delta and American. I will be surprised if they drop any US routes in the long run. The only reason they have not updated their cabins is they have no money and their owners have no will to invest that money. The UA/AC/UK partnership is merely codeshare, they are still competing with each other. UK is pretty irrelevant right now in the India-North America market, so that partnership is pretty tame right now.
Star Alliance Gold
 
VTORD
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:28 am

airboss787 wrote:
Irehdna wrote:
I actually wouldnt be surprised if AI gives up NA all together, given the UA/AC/UK partnership they compete against. The fact that they haven't updated their 777s is telling.


The assumption that Air India is going to give up North America is just ridiculous. They have been flying these routes for more than 10 years and have managed to drive out both Delta and American. I will be surprised if they drop any US routes in the long run. The only reason they have not updated their cabins is they have no money and their owners have no will to invest that money. The UA/AC/UK partnership is merely codeshare, they are still competing with each other. UK is pretty irrelevant right now in the India-North America market, so that partnership is pretty tame right now.

:checkmark: Although to be fair UA-AC combination tickets do show up periodically on UA's booking engine and are especially popular with the Kayaks of the world but I think Indian nationals need a visa to transit in Canada so not a very favorable option for many of AI's pax. Even for the domestic onward connections, UK probably lags AI in destinations so that is a strong point in AI's favor.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8991
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:41 am

VTORD wrote:
... UK probably lags AI in destinations so that is a strong point in AI's favor.


If you say UK lags at DEL, it is non-existent at BLR. UK built-up decent network at DEL pre-COVID-19 and has potential to grow further, but 6E will not allow them to grow at BLR. This is something BIAL should have addressed rather than being happy on social media when 6E announces yet another frequency. How would UK survive on a BLR-xyz route with a dozen dailies from 6E.
All posts are just opinions.
 
User avatar
CPS001
Posts: 270
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:05 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:40 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
VTORD wrote:
... UK probably lags AI in destinations so that is a strong point in AI's favor.


If you say UK lags at DEL, it is non-existent at BLR. UK built-up decent network at DEL pre-COVID-19 and has potential to grow further, but 6E will not allow them to grow at BLR. This is something BIAL should have addressed rather than being happy on social media when 6E announces yet another frequency. How would UK survive on a BLR-xyz route with a dozen dailies from 6E.


I don't think UK will be connecting any pax thru BLR. They have 6 destinations from BLR in total (BOM, DEL, CCU, AMD (terminated?), PAT (temporary), DXB (air bubble)) and based on geography it would be quicker for UA to route these pax thru DEL or BOM. BLR will be O/D only, same as AA (although many Indians self connect).
 
sand26391
Posts: 710
Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:47 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:42 am

Man I couldnt wait to see your face/reaction when UA and AA announced to launch flights to BLR and not to HYD!
Was itching to tell you since Jan 2020, but wanted to wait for an official word... phew...! Good old payback :)
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:31 am

CPS001 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
VTORD wrote:
... UK probably lags AI in destinations so that is a strong point in AI's favor.


If you say UK lags at DEL, it is non-existent at BLR. UK built-up decent network at DEL pre-COVID-19 and has potential to grow further, but 6E will not allow them to grow at BLR. This is something BIAL should have addressed rather than being happy on social media when 6E announces yet another frequency. How would UK survive on a BLR-xyz route with a dozen dailies from 6E.


I don't think UK will be connecting any pax thru BLR. They have 6 destinations from BLR in total (BOM, DEL, CCU, AMD (terminated?), PAT (temporary), DXB (air bubble)) and based on geography it would be quicker for UA to route these pax thru DEL or BOM. BLR will be O/D only, same as AA (although many Indians self connect).

Officially, Vistara only serves BLR-BOM/DEL on the domestic network. Those other flights showing up now are only temporary to meet the current pent up demand due covid-19, like the few weekly BLR-PAT. The only other flight they were to add beside BOM/DEL from BLR was a red-eye to IXC, but they haven’t operated that too.
BLR is hard for FSC’s on the domestic front , even 9W found it hard to compete against 6E’s insane network and frequency out of BLR.
UK’s SS’20 schedule.
https://public-prd-dgca.s3.ap-south-1.a ... SS2020.pdf
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8991
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:17 am

CPS001 wrote:
(although many Indians self connect).


I think this is the magic sauce behind BLR O&D numbers. Not sure how popular self-connect would be in COVID-19 world. AIG math worked well and LH, AA and UA added new routes, now it's time to bring it home.
All posts are just opinions.
 
hohd
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:03 pm

sand26391 wrote:
Man I couldnt wait to see your face/reaction when UA and AA announced to launch flights to BLR and not to HYD!
Was itching to tell you since Jan 2020, but wanted to wait for an official word... phew...! Good old payback :)


I don't think many expected that UA or AA would launch nonstops to HYD over BLR. HYD may have marginally higher VFR traffic to SFO than BLR, but they are lower yielding and BLR has strong business traffic, far higher than HYD or MAA. However AA's SEA-BLR flight is in doubt, BLR cannot have that much traffic for both airlines.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8991
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:04 pm

Don't forget LH BLR-MUC and KL/BA/AF upgauges/additional frequencies. Same dream is sold to several airlines, now it's time to fill all those planes.
All posts are just opinions.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:50 pm

hohd wrote:
sand26391 wrote:
Man I couldnt wait to see your face/reaction when UA and AA announced to launch flights to BLR and not to HYD!
Was itching to tell you since Jan 2020, but wanted to wait for an official word... phew...! Good old payback :)


I don't think many expected that UA or AA would launch nonstops to HYD over BLR. HYD may have marginally higher VFR traffic to SFO than BLR, but they are lower yielding and BLR has strong business traffic, far higher than HYD or MAA. However AA's SEA-BLR flight is in doubt, BLR cannot have that much traffic for both airlines.


I would say HYD has significantly more VFR versus BLR (to/from the US). HYD area is one of the larger groups in the US right below DEL/BOM Gujarat and Punjab. How they compare to MAA, I do not know.

I think the main issue with HYD, is that the bulk of the business traffic to the US has to fly coach. I didn't realize up until recently that many US companies that outsource to India, allow their US employees to fly J to India but make the Indian employees fly Y to the US. This probably does HYD in. BLR has a better mix of front office/mid office/back office jobs plus finance types fly back and forth (front office and finance probably can fly J). Add to that a more affluent and cosmopolitan local population for outbound tourists and BLR works out better for airlines. That said, HYD will catch up. It is a matter of when not if.
 
killswitch13
Posts: 89
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:52 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:32 am

Vistara International plan:Sources
-UK likely to mount flights to- Frankfurt,Doha,Dhaka & Paris, mostly bubble agreements
-1 A321 delivery likely next week,A320 in Oct 1st week
-Might operate B789 on Paris route, A321 on Frankfurt
-Delivery of 2 B789s by March next year
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Sun Sep 20, 2020 3:15 pm

At-least two news sources are hinting that the TATAs do not want to buy Air India.

Air India is not finding any takers and the privatisation may be put off by three years, delivering a blow to the efforts to divest the national carrier.
It seems that due to the turbulence caused in the aviation sector by the Covid 19 pandemic, airlines are already struggling and in that scenario, there are no buyers for Air India. Tatas were supposedly frontrunners for the divestiture, but for some reason have backed out of the race for the moment after completing the due diligence process.

https://www.india.com/business/no-buyer ... f-4146062/


Now, sources close to developments say that even the one potential bidder – a large, reluctant Indian business house which has been under tremendous pressure from the government to place a bid – may also be holding off. These sources said that first of all, this business house feels any deal would be possible only after all the debt (and not just a part of it) is taken off. This involves a sum of nearly Rs 60,000 crore.
Secondly, this business house may be interested in only signing on a contract to manage operations, not a complete buyout. So instead of outright disinvestment, the government may have to settle with just a private party managing the airline.
Media reports suggest that the transaction advisor to the AI sale, EY, has suggested shutting down the airline and deferring the sale process by three years among several options. A final call on the future course of AI will be taken by a group of ministers, headed by the home minister, later this month.

https://www.news18.com/news/opinion/at- ... 92219.html
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:33 am

The much awaited opening of Darbhanga Airport of Bihar, will take place on Nov 8th. Will benefit 22 districts around.
It's a defence airfield being used for commercial ops after opening a new terminal there, after much request and demand from the flying public.
As usual, Spicejet has jumped to be the first carrier to serve this airport from Nov 8th and will connect Darbhanga to Delhi/Mumbai/Bengaluru using 737's on all sectors.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spi ... 52183.html
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:13 am

avier wrote:
The much awaited opening of Darbhanga Airport of Bihar, will take place on Nov 8th. Will benefit 22 districts around.
It's a defence airfield being used for commercial ops after opening a new terminal there, after much request and demand from the flying public.
As usual, Spicejet has jumped to be the first carrier to serve this airport from Nov 8th and will connect Darbhanga to Delhi/Mumbai/Bengaluru using 737's on all sectors.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spi ... 52183.html


These routes were bid for, and won, by SpiceJet during the second round of UDAN, if i'm not mistaken. Good to see a new airport coming online.
 
CaliguyNYC
Posts: 1296
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:50 pm

avier wrote:
The much awaited opening of Darbhanga Airport of Bihar, will take place on Nov 8th. Will benefit 22 districts around.
It's a defence airfield being used for commercial ops after opening a new terminal there, after much request and demand from the flying public.
As usual, Spicejet has jumped to be the first carrier to serve this airport from Nov 8th and will connect Darbhanga to Delhi/Mumbai/Bengaluru using 737's on all sectors.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spi ... 52183.html


I will admit that I don't fully understand the pax flows in the Indian domestic market. I will say I think it is amazing you cannot fly BOM-Agra (pre covid and even with a same plane one-step ) but can fly this route nonstop. Go figure.
 
hohd
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:17 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
At-least two news sources are hinting that the TATAs do not want to buy Air India.

Air India is not finding any takers and the privatisation may be put off by three years, delivering a blow to the efforts to divest the national carrier.
It seems that due to the turbulence caused in the aviation sector by the Covid 19 pandemic, airlines are already struggling and in that scenario, there are no buyers for Air India. Tatas were supposedly frontrunners for the divestiture, but for some reason have backed out of the race for the moment after completing the due diligence process.

https://www.india.com/business/no-buyer ... f-4146062/


Now, sources close to developments say that even the one potential bidder – a large, reluctant Indian business house which has been under tremendous pressure from the government to place a bid – may also be holding off. These sources said that first of all, this business house feels any deal would be possible only after all the debt (and not just a part of it) is taken off. This involves a sum of nearly Rs 60,000 crore.
Secondly, this business house may be interested in only signing on a contract to manage operations, not a complete buyout. So instead of outright disinvestment, the government may have to settle with just a private party managing the airline.
Media reports suggest that the transaction advisor to the AI sale, EY, has suggested shutting down the airline and deferring the sale process by three years among several options. A final call on the future course of AI will be taken by a group of ministers, headed by the home minister, later this month.


If this is true, it is a good business move from Tatas. They need to sort out their interests and operations of Vistara and Air Asia India. May be next year or in 2022, when travel is back somewhat, they can reconsider AI. I am sure that no one will buy AI until then. Shutting down AI is not a viable option, whatever value that AI has, can only be realized if they are flying, especially internationally.

Perhaps Adani, which has now emerged as a favorite for the GoI to manage Airports, can be persuaded to bid on AI.
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:21 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I will admit that I don't fully understand the pax flows in the Indian domestic market. I will say I think it is amazing you cannot fly BOM-Agra (pre covid and even with a same plane one-step ) but can fly this route nonstop. Go figure.

Well, the evolving networks seem to be more in tune with the migrant flow in the country rather than tourism only purpose routes.
UP/Bihar are one of the most densely populated states in the country with high birth rates. This coupled with lack of employment opportunities in those states, especially Bihar/Jharkhand, is forcing many to move to cities like Delhi/Mumbai/Bengaluru. And if you observe 6E and SG new routes over last few years, they have added pan India connections from these states. Especially Bengaluru- UP/Bihar/Assam. 6E network reflects that well. These routes are tapping more into the AC rail travellers on these routes that migrate to bigger cities along with some business traffic too.
Regarding Agra, Alliance Air tried BOM-Agra using CRJ-700 weekly service years ago, and that route failed, Very seasonal and patchy demand on such routes. But it may work in future.
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:27 pm

hohd wrote:
Perhaps Adani, which has now emerged as a favorite for the GoI to manage Airports, can be persuaded to bid on AI.

Those managing or running airports cannot run an airline or bid for one, it would be " conflict of interest". Wouldn't be allowed per law. So these industrial groups can pick between either airport or airline business. So Adani is clearly not in the picture in regards to any airlines biz now.
 
pune
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:18 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:46 pm

avier wrote:
Those managing or running airports cannot run an airline or bid for one, it would be " conflict of interest". Wouldn't be allowed per law. So these industrial groups can pick between either airport or airline business. So Adani is clearly not in the picture in regards to any airlines biz now.


Rules are and can be changed. So many times we have seen 'conflict of interest' rules being amended if needed. Nothing is set in stone as can be seen in the recent Farm bills where the major entity to benefit would be Reliance Fresh but that probably is a different topic in itself.

Sadly, what India needs as pointed by another poster is not 7 but at least 100 odd medium airports. For e.g. my own city Pune, we have been making do similar to Bihar in the sense it has both commercial and air force operations. And for the most part, commercial civil aviation is curtailed to make sure the Air force are able to train and do whatever operations they need to do to be battle-ready. I do dream of an airport which is open 24x7 and has destinations all over India including the North-East as well as international operations. Lot of such opportunities may become a reality once electric aircraft take the sky and we have sub 3k tickets for an hr. , hour and half flight. From what little I know India doesn't seem to have any plans for electric aircraft though, although China, England, Sweden and other countries are taking quite a huge interest in opening that space but that maybe another topic altogether as well.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:44 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
avier wrote:
The much awaited opening of Darbhanga Airport of Bihar, will take place on Nov 8th. Will benefit 22 districts around.
It's a defence airfield being used for commercial ops after opening a new terminal there, after much request and demand from the flying public.
As usual, Spicejet has jumped to be the first carrier to serve this airport from Nov 8th and will connect Darbhanga to Delhi/Mumbai/Bengaluru using 737's on all sectors.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spi ... 52183.html


I will admit that I don't fully understand the pax flows in the Indian domestic market. I will say I think it is amazing you cannot fly BOM-Agra (pre covid and even with a same plane one-step ) but can fly this route nonstop. Go figure.


These are UDAN routes, propped up by subsidy. Without it, we don't know if such routes would ever materialise.

Likewise, Port Blair seems like a hot tourist destination going by the number of flights operating to that island airport. Until one realises that airlines fly there because they're forced to by the government's Route Dispersal Guidelines (RDGs). Similarly, although GAU is a big city in its region, a sizeable chunk of air traffic to that city exists because the airport is listed as a CAT-II airport under RDG, meaning airlines have an incentive to dump capacity on routes out of that airport.

Because airlines are forced to dump a fixed percentage of their total capacity (by ASKMs) to such airports, airlines are always on the lookout for the "cheapest way to fulfil their quotas". Unsurprisingly, it gets difficult to understand why a certain city pair in India doesn't have flights while another does..because the airlines aren't always trying to "cater to demand", they're just trying to survive the system.
 
hohd
Posts: 1001
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:03 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:26 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
CaliguyNYC wrote:
avier wrote:
The much awaited opening of Darbhanga Airport of Bihar, will take place on Nov 8th. Will benefit 22 districts around.
It's a defence airfield being used for commercial ops after opening a new terminal there, after much request and demand from the flying public.
As usual, Spicejet has jumped to be the first carrier to serve this airport from Nov 8th and will connect Darbhanga to Delhi/Mumbai/Bengaluru using 737's on all sectors.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/spi ... 52183.html


I will admit that I don't fully understand the pax flows in the Indian domestic market. I will say I think it is amazing you cannot fly BOM-Agra (pre covid and even with a same plane one-step ) but can fly this route nonstop. Go figure.


These are UDAN routes, propped up by subsidy. Without it, we don't know if such routes would ever materialise.

Likewise, Port Blair seems like a hot tourist destination going by the number of flights operating to that island airport. Until one realises that airlines fly there because they're forced to by the government's Route Dispersal Guidelines (RDGs). Similarly, although GAU is a big city in its region, a sizeable chunk of air traffic to that city exists because the airport is listed as a CAT-II airport under RDG, meaning airlines have an incentive to dump capacity on routes out of that airport.

Because airlines are forced to dump a fixed percentage of their total capacity (by ASKMs) to such airports, airlines are always on the lookout for the "cheapest way to fulfil their quotas". Unsurprisingly, it gets difficult to understand why a certain city pair in India doesn't have flights while another does..because the airlines aren't always trying to "cater to demand", they're just trying to survive the system.


Not sure about GAU being dumped on to satisfy RDG. Pre Covid Gauhathi had flights to Southern and Western India (BLR, HYD, MAA, BOM and AMD), flights were introduced to these cities because they saw traffic potential. BLR to GAU, there were 3 flights daily (2 on Indigo itself). Dumping is only for smaller cities.
 
VTORD
Posts: 762
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:50 pm

hohd wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
These are UDAN routes, propped up by subsidy. Without it, we don't know if such routes would ever materialise.

Likewise, Port Blair seems like a hot tourist destination going by the number of flights operating to that island airport. Until one realises that airlines fly there because they're forced to by the government's Route Dispersal Guidelines (RDGs). Similarly, although GAU is a big city in its region, a sizeable chunk of air traffic to that city exists because the airport is listed as a CAT-II airport under RDG, meaning airlines have an incentive to dump capacity on routes out of that airport.

Because airlines are forced to dump a fixed percentage of their total capacity (by ASKMs) to such airports, airlines are always on the lookout for the "cheapest way to fulfil their quotas". Unsurprisingly, it gets difficult to understand why a certain city pair in India doesn't have flights while another does..because the airlines aren't always trying to "cater to demand", they're just trying to survive the system.


Not sure about GAU being dumped on to satisfy RDG. Pre Covid Gauhathi had flights to Southern and Western India (BLR, HYD, MAA, BOM and AMD), flights were introduced to these cities because they saw traffic potential. BLR to GAU, there were 3 flights daily (2 on Indigo itself). Dumping is only for smaller cities.

GAU probably gets a ton of ONGC / IOC traffic. 9W used to make a pretty buck on ONGC contracts though I believe you connected (for the most part) via CCU. Plus the polymer intensive medium to large scale industries will drive some of the traffic too I suppose. One would assume that initially GAU would have to be the best airport to fly into for Kaziranga so that's not an insignificant number of people esp., foreign tourists using BOM/DEL/BLR/MAA as an entry point.
 
User avatar
trinidadeG
Posts: 318
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:43 am

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:07 pm

hohd wrote:
Not sure about GAU being dumped on to satisfy RDG. Pre Covid Gauhathi had flights to Southern and Western India (BLR, HYD, MAA, BOM and AMD), flights were introduced to these cities because they saw traffic potential. BLR to GAU, there were 3 flights daily (2 on Indigo itself). Dumping is only for smaller cities.


As per AAI annual stats, the following is GAU's impressive traffic growth.

2015-16 -- 24%
2016-17 -- 36%
2017-18 -- 23%
2018-19 -- 23.1%

I don't think this kind of sustained massive growth was driven by the airport's traffic potential.

What suddenly changed in that period? The National Civil Aviation Policy of 2016.
This policy tweaked the Route Dispersal Guidelines and effectively doubled the number of domestic routes that were to be classified as CAT I. This meant that the larger airlines now had to scramble to double their capacity on CAT-II routes in order to comply with the government's mandate.

LCCs like IndiGo (whose fleet strength, and therefore overall available ASKMs, have jumped in leaps and bounds in the same period) have realised that its simply easier to have A320s flown on long, cross-country routes like AMD to GAU clocking a higher number of CAT-II ASKMs rather than flying short hops like CCU-GAU. IndiGo even attempted a long route like Kochi-Gauhati for a short while!!

https://networkthoughts.com/2016/12/06/ ... -in-india/
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8991
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:51 am

Looks like Germany have had enough of India's Air Bubble drama. Lufthansa Cancelled all flights until October 20, 2020.

Countries should have insisted on India complying existing ASAs and opening international air service, but somehow agreed to sign these bogus Bubble agreements. Now these bubbles are bursting.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/lufthan ... -topscroll
All posts are just opinions.
 
avier
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:58 am

The air travel bubble arrangement between the countries should have been made under the framework of the bilateral air agreements. And schedules allowed as per SS'20 approved schedules.
It's silly for India to expect airlines to have equal frequencies from both sides, when AI never operated to the scale of many foreign airlines. LH always had multiple flights to India, and AI far less. And now they want LH to serve similar frequencies as AI would serve Germany.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 22054
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Indian Aviation Thread - Q3 2020

Wed Sep 30, 2020 2:48 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Looks like Germany have had enough of India's Air Bubble drama. Lufthansa Cancelled all flights until October 20, 2020.

Countries should have insisted on India complying existing ASAs and opening international air service, but somehow agreed to sign these bogus Bubble agreements. Now these bubbles are bursting.

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/lufthan ... -topscroll

This isn't good, that means the rejection of LH's schedule allows Germany to reject India's schedule.

What do diplomats not realize tit for tat is the most common response? No one benefits.

Lightsaber
6 months without TV. The best decision of my life.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos