Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
MIflyer12
Topic Author
Posts: 7613
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:56 pm

TOULOUSE/PARIS (Reuters) - Airbus on Tuesday unveiled plans to shed around 15,000 jobs including 900 already earmarked in Germany, saying its future was at stake after the coronavirus pandemic rocked the air travel industry.

The logo of Airbus is pictured at the entrance of the Airbus facility in Bouguenais, near Nantes, France, June 30, 2020. REUTERS/Stephane Mahe
Europe’s biggest aerospace group said it would cut some 5,000 posts in France, 5,100 in Germany, 900 in Spain, 1,700 in the UK and 1,300 elsewhere for a core total of 14,000.

Additionally, the company has already agreed to cut 900 jobs at its Premium AEROTEC unit in Germany.


www.reuters.com/article/us-airbus-restr ... SKBN24112F

And, as one might expect, the French state disagrees.

PARIS (Reuters) - European planemaker Airbus’ plans to shed 15,000 jobs are “excessive” and need to be revised, a French Finance Ministry source said on Tuesday after the announced cuts.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... 413A4?il=0
 
User avatar
GEUltraFan9XGTF
Posts: 385
Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:15 pm

Unfortunate news for Airbus, its employees, its suppliers, and the entire industry. Another ripple in the pond.

We. Are. Just. Getting. Started. With. This. Folks.
© 2020. All statements are my own. The use of my statements, including by journalists, YouTube vloggers like "DJ's Aviation", etc. without my written consent is strictly prohibited.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 19583
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:19 pm

GEUltraFan9XGTF wrote:
Unfortunate news for Airbus, its employees, its suppliers, and the entire industry. Another ripple in the pond.

We. Are. Just. Getting. Started. With. This. Folks.

Very unfortunate. The cuts are not enough. I'm not saying the competitor will do any better, but airlines will have a shortage of money and the whole credit binge must be processed.

Until we read about all the returned leased aircraft being in demand, we will have trouble. We all recall 9/11, but the US returned aircraft that were in demand shortly afterwards (minus the 727s and others scrapped). This is the first time I am aware of where the entire global airline Industry was trying to return aircraft.

We will recover, but I personally believe that production is still too high.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
MIflyer12
Topic Author
Posts: 7613
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:23 am

Reuters had an update 1 July. The state appears to be tying layoff numbers to the tech development subsidy.

Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the government estimated 2,000 of 5,000 planned cuts by Airbus in France could be saved by a reduced-work scheme and with help from state investment in next-generation green jets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN2424RE
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:17 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
Reuters had an update 1 July. The state appears to be tying layoff numbers to the tech development subsidy.

Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the government estimated 2,000 of 5,000 planned cuts by Airbus in France could be saved by a reduced-work scheme and with help from state investment in next-generation green jets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN2424RE


This government is too busy at trying to scavenge some Green votes to really understand the struggle of air transport industry
Caravelle lover
 
tvh
Posts: 201
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:41 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:20 pm

how many jobs are there with airbus ?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10462
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:31 pm

tvh wrote:
how many jobs are there with airbus ?

According to the article, ~135,000
 
CometOrbit
Posts: 42
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 5:30 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:38 pm

tvh wrote:
how many jobs are there with airbus ?


Airbus employs 134 000 worldwide.
The 15 000 job losses are in civil aviation; the defence and space businesses are not affected.
Production cuts at Airbus will also affect suppliers, notably the engine makers.
 
boerje
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:42 pm

From the Reuters article: "About 37% of the 135,000-strong Airbus workforce is due to retire this decade, led by veterans of its best-selling A320."

As the year 2020 is the last year of this current decade, I think Reuters ment "in 10 years". :geek:
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:01 pm

CometOrbit wrote:
The 15 000 job losses are in civil aviation; the defence and space businesses are not affected.

Minor correction: The defence and space business is also facing job cuts, albeit for different reasons. These were announced earlier this year.
 
airhansa
Posts: 347
Joined: Wed Jan 08, 2020 3:18 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:11 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Reuters had an update 1 July. The state appears to be tying layoff numbers to the tech development subsidy.

Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the government estimated 2,000 of 5,000 planned cuts by Airbus in France could be saved by a reduced-work scheme and with help from state investment in next-generation green jets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN2424RE


This government is too busy at trying to scavenge some Green votes to really understand the struggle of air transport industry


A lot of the workers can go into another field with little training. The main jobs that are hard to move are pilots.
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3486
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:20 pm

boerje wrote:
From the Reuters article: "About 37% of the 135,000-strong Airbus workforce is due to retire this decade, led by veterans of its best-selling A320."

As the year 2020 is the last year of this current decade, I think Reuters ment "in 10 years". :geek:

The world of learning how to count starts at 0. Current decade is 2020-2029 inclusive.

How many of the 135K is in the commercial aircraft sector? What fraction of them will 15k constitute?

Fred
Image
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:53 pm

airhansa wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Reuters had an update 1 July. The state appears to be tying layoff numbers to the tech development subsidy.

Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the government estimated 2,000 of 5,000 planned cuts by Airbus in France could be saved by a reduced-work scheme and with help from state investment in next-generation green jets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN2424RE


This government is too busy at trying to scavenge some Green votes to really understand the struggle of air transport industry


A lot of the workers can go into another field with little training. The main jobs that are hard to move are pilots.


While I admit that the hardest jobs to move are pilots, you just cannot "go into another field with little training".
Caravelle lover
 
User avatar
Revelation
Posts: 23727
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:37 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:31 pm

It's kind of interesting that one high tech firm I worked for had the corporate practice of ranking all employees and putting them into categories. The one category you obviously did not want to be in was the bottom 15%. It more or less meant if business was soft or there was some other setback to the business, chances were high that you will be shown the door. Thus it kept people on their toes most of the time especially if they were near the bottom.

So, I wonder how Airbus is going to decide which people to let go?
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12964
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:58 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Reuters had an update 1 July. The state appears to be tying layoff numbers to the tech development subsidy.

Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the government estimated 2,000 of 5,000 planned cuts by Airbus in France could be saved by a reduced-work scheme and with help from state investment in next-generation green jets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN2424RE


This government is too busy at trying to scavenge some Green votes to really understand the struggle of air transport industry


It's the people that want green investments, shouldn't the government do what the people want ?

Can you imagine the outrage if Total asked for billions euros ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12964
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:11 pm

To develop a green plane Airbus doesn't need random workers, they need engineers, scientists, students finishing their studies in the latest technologies... I would expect Airbus to hire people for that task, on top of moving engineers from other parts of the company.

Also, even the workers building the aircraft are skilled, often coming from a local aerospace school, the main places where they could find work are with Airbus' subcontractors, who won't be hiring either...

Revelation wrote:
It's kind of interesting that one high tech firm I worked for had the corporate practice of ranking all employees and putting them into categories. The one category you obviously did not want to be in was the bottom 15%. It more or less meant if business was soft or there was some other setback to the business, chances were high that you will be shown the door. Thus it kept people on their toes most of the time especially if they were near the bottom.

So, I wonder how Airbus is going to decide which people to let go?


In France they will bargain with the unions, under pressure from the government. They will offer early retirements, packages for those who leave voluntarily, then packages for those who will be fired.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:31 pm

Interview with Guillaume Faury, CEO:
ARD: Given the number of job cuts, can you avoid forced redundancies / layoffs?

Faury: We have been working on this for months and continue to do so. Short-time working is a way of keeping employees in the company with the help of the states. So we don't have to fire them, we can let teams circulate. Many employees will work less, but everyone will stay with the company and - according to the plan - will return full-time when work starts to pick up again. Long-term short-time work could help us secure 1,500 jobs [in Germany and 2,000 jobs in France]. Investments create about 400 to 500 [additional jobs in Germany]. Nevertheless, some overstaffing remains. We will therefore try to find solutions with the social partners [unions, ...] as we have always managed to do.
...
ARD: Especially in Germany, many medium-sized suppliers with numerous employees depend heavily on Airbus. How can you avoid job cuts there and also secure production at Airbus in the event of bankruptcies?

Faury: An aircraft has around 500,000 parts from 3,200 producers. If one of them can no longer produce, part of the aircraft is missing. But you cannot deliver an almost finished aircraft. So if one, two or three producers fail, everyone else stops. That is why there is great solidarity in our industry. Everyone depends on the other. Therefore we are concerned and have prepared. With a task force that monitors suppliers and can intervene before bankruptcies occur - through reorganization, adjustment or takeovers. We don't drop the suppliers. We cannot allow ourselves that.

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/ai ... y-103.html [German]

tldr: Airbus isn't keen on firing employees but might be forced to by the circumstances despite government support. They're also prepared to (financially) support their supply chain.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5078
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:43 am

flipdewaf wrote:
boerje wrote:
From the Reuters article: "About 37% of the 135,000-strong Airbus workforce is due to retire this decade, led by veterans of its best-selling A320."

As the year 2020 is the last year of this current decade, I think Reuters ment "in 10 years". :geek:

The world of learning how to count starts at 0. Current decade is 2020-2029 inclusive.
Fred

Sorry Fred, the current decade is 2011 to 2020. The world, unfortunately does not start counting at zero but at 1. The current year numbering scheme start at 1 for the very good and simple reason was that the concept of zero was not invented until sometime in the 7th century which ran from 801 to 900 exactly because of this.
[/pedant mode]

Gemuser
 
alasizon
Posts: 2512
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:30 am

Gemuser wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
boerje wrote:
From the Reuters article: "About 37% of the 135,000-strong Airbus workforce is due to retire this decade, led by veterans of its best-selling A320."

As the year 2020 is the last year of this current decade, I think Reuters ment "in 10 years". :geek:

The world of learning how to count starts at 0. Current decade is 2020-2029 inclusive.
Fred

Sorry Fred, the current decade is 2011 to 2020. The world, unfortunately does not start counting at zero but at 1. The current year numbering scheme start at 1 for the very good and simple reason was that the concept of zero was not invented until sometime in the 7th century which ran from 801 to 900 exactly because of this.
[/pedant mode]

Gemuser


There is a reason why decades are referred to as the 1970s, 1980s and so on. 1980 was not part of the 1970s just as 2020 is not part of the 2010s so Reuters' original verbiage is correct. You may certainly choose to look at a decade as 2011-2020 or 2015-2025, those too are 10 year periods and nothing is wrong with that but in journalism and media, the decades are traditionally derived based on the digit in the 10s place.

Revelation wrote:
So, I wonder how Airbus is going to decide which people to let go?

Most non-unionized groups are based on a combination of performance and ability to impact the future. When you have two equal performers but one person is more of a visionary, it typically is the visionary that is kept as under a trimmed down workforce, new leaders will have to step forward to help develop the "new" Airbus.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
User avatar
LaunchDetected
Posts: 313
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:42 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:16 am

Aesma wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Reuters had an update 1 July. The state appears to be tying layoff numbers to the tech development subsidy.

Junior Transport Minister Jean-Baptiste Djebbari said the government estimated 2,000 of 5,000 planned cuts by Airbus in France could be saved by a reduced-work scheme and with help from state investment in next-generation green jets.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN2424RE


This government is too busy at trying to scavenge some Green votes to really understand the struggle of air transport industry


It's the people that want green investments, shouldn't the government do what the people want ?

Can you imagine the outrage if Total asked for billions euros ?


The people knows nothing about aerospace engineering and engineering in general.

That's the same people who pushed to close a nuclear power plant this week, to "protect the climate".
Caravelle lover
 
mxaxai
Posts: 1775
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:29 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:28 am

alasizon wrote:
Revelation wrote:
So, I wonder how Airbus is going to decide which people to let go?

Most non-unionized groups are based on a combination of performance and ability to impact the future. When you have two equal performers but one person is more of a visionary, it typically is the visionary that is kept as under a trimmed down workforce, new leaders will have to step forward to help develop the "new" Airbus.

AFAIK the majority of Airbus' European employees are unionized.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 12964
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:35 pm

LaunchDetected wrote:
Aesma wrote:
LaunchDetected wrote:

This government is too busy at trying to scavenge some Green votes to really understand the struggle of air transport industry


It's the people that want green investments, shouldn't the government do what the people want ?

Can you imagine the outrage if Total asked for billions euros ?


The people knows nothing about aerospace engineering and engineering in general.

That's the same people who pushed to close a nuclear power plant this week, to "protect the climate".


The Greens have a stupid obsession with nuclear energy, but do note they're not asking for this green plane, they want less (much much less) flying, closing airports etc.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
PW100
Posts: 4109
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 9:17 pm

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:20 pm

Gemuser wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
boerje wrote:
From the Reuters article: "About 37% of the 135,000-strong Airbus workforce is due to retire this decade, led by veterans of its best-selling A320."

As the year 2020 is the last year of this current decade, I think Reuters ment "in 10 years". :geek:

The world of learning how to count starts at 0. Current decade is 2020-2029 inclusive.
Fred

Sorry Fred, the current decade is 2011 to 2020. The world, unfortunately does not start counting at zero but at 1. The current year numbering scheme start at 1 for the very good and simple reason was that the concept of zero was not invented until sometime in the 7th century which ran from 801 to 900 exactly because of this.
[/pedant mode]

Gemuser


Correct, there is no year zero (just as there is no month zero , and no day zero).
Western (Gregorian) calender starts with 1st of Jan year 1.

Now, since we are in pedant mode . . . small correction on your 7th century:
year 1 - year 100 (inclusive) = 1st century
year 101 - year 200 (inclusive) = 2nd century
. . . . . .
year 601 - year 700 (inclusive) = 7th century
year 701 - year 800 (inclusive) = 8th century
year 801 - year 900 (inclusive) = 9th century
. . . . . .
year 1901 - year 2000 (inclusive) = 20th century
year 2001 - year 2100 (inclusive) = 21st century

Each year runs from 01 Jan to 31 Dec.
So the current century (21st) runs from 01 Jan 2001 to 31st Dec 2100.

Same logic also applies to millennium, but the masses found 01 Jan 2000 better recognizable than 01 Jan 2001 for millennium change.
Plus, the millenium bug didn't care too much for Gregorian calendar . . .

//off-topic
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
flipdewaf
Posts: 3486
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 6:28 am

Re: Reuters: Airbus 15K job cuts outlined 30 June 2020

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:40 pm

Gemuser wrote:
flipdewaf wrote:
boerje wrote:
From the Reuters article: "About 37% of the 135,000-strong Airbus workforce is due to retire this decade, led by veterans of its best-selling A320."

As the year 2020 is the last year of this current decade, I think Reuters ment "in 10 years". :geek:

The world of learning how to count starts at 0. Current decade is 2020-2029 inclusive.
Fred

Sorry Fred, the current decade is 2011 to 2020. The world, unfortunately does not start counting at zero but at 1. The current year numbering scheme start at 1 for the very good and simple reason was that the concept of zero was not invented until sometime in the 7th century which ran from 801 to 900 exactly because of this.
[/pedant mode]

Gemuser


The world might count from 1, that has little relevance on the fact that it actually starts at 0. Because some people were incorrect at the beginning holds little relevance to now, the mariana trench being the deepest place in the oceans even before it was discovered.

Fred
Image

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos