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wernerga3
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Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:23 am

Been wondering, did the air France Concorde ever fly In the original livery or was it flying in the updated livery by the time it entered service?

Image
Image
 
dmanonice
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:19 am

Based on this linkhttps://www.heritageconcorde.com/concorde-livery it would appear that they did until the late 70s
Mike
 
FGITD
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:25 am

I believe the old livery was First on a demonstration aircraft, with BA livery on the opposite side
Personally, I think the change was good. The old livery is a classic, but an aircraft like Concorde needed a refresh.

Edited because I was completely wrong!
 
reltney
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:35 am

wernerga3 wrote:
Been wondering, did the air France Concorde ever fly In the original livery or was it flying in the updated livery by the time it entered service?

Image
Image



Everone has a different opinion and that’s great. I love the old Air France livery on the Concorde. The “bar code” livery gave it a cheap look. The old BOAC livery would have been better on the BA planes. This day of all white with a cheap logo is horrible. All airlines look the same. Cheat lines helped. Generic airline liveries just suck....

I love the old original Air Chance livery. Wish it stayed that way..

Cheers
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OUTLAW KNIVES.

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dmanonice
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:36 am

So digging into the site I listed above it looks like it may only have been F-BTSC (which eventually was the airframe that crashed at Paris) may have been the only one to wear that livery. She was used for route proving and then was leased to AF until their machines arrived, presumably in the Concorde colours. This airframe was originally intended for Pan Am. https://www.heritageconcorde.com/f-btsc-103
Mike
 
Antarius
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:03 am

reltney wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Been wondering, did the air France Concorde ever fly In the original livery or was it flying in the updated livery by the time it entered service?

Image
Image



Everone has a different opinion and that’s great. I love the old Air France livery on the Concorde. The “bar code” livery gave it a cheap look. The old BOAC livery would have been better on the BA planes. This day of all white with a cheap logo is horrible. All airlines look the same. Cheat lines helped. Generic airline liveries just suck....

I love the old original Air Chance livery. Wish it stayed that way..

Cheers


Cheat lines were just as generic as the oft bemoaned white.

The barcode livery harkens to France. This weird blue protractor livery could be on any airline or be the generic airline in a tv show or video game.
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Noshow
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:22 am

The "barcode" livery was a revolution back then. Pure Avantgarde. Exactly what the Concorde was. Almost all other airlines had cheat lines and the old style liveries. There was no euro white before. Add the new futuristic look of the brand new CDG airport at Paris ("James Bond Terminal") to this experience and the French truly were design pacemakers back then.
 
Bhoy
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:43 am

reltney wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
Been wondering, did the air France Concorde ever fly In the original livery or was it flying in the updated livery by the time it entered service?

Image
Image



Everone has a different opinion and that’s great. I love the old Air France livery on the Concorde. The “bar code” livery gave it a cheap look. The old BOAC livery would have been better on the BA planes. This day of all white with a cheap logo is horrible. All airlines look the same. Cheat lines helped. Generic airline liveries just suck....

I love the old original Air Chance livery. Wish it stayed that way..

Cheers

Concorde kind of had to be all (mostly) white, though. BA's planes were white with the respective Speedmarques during the Negus, Landor and Utopia days rather than with the blue Bellies of the rest of the fleet as different coloured paints reacted differently to Concorde's heating up and lengthening during Supersonic flight, and blue would have flaked.
 
xtra1
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:36 am

I remember watching an Air France Concorde with this very livery, doing a low fly-pass over Hong Kong harbour. It was carrying Imelda Marcos on a shopping trip to Hong Kong.
 
reltney
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 2:49 pm

Noshow wrote:
The "barcode" livery was a revolution back then. Pure Avantgarde. Exactly what the Concorde was. Almost all other airlines had cheat lines and the old style liveries. There was no euro white before. Add the new futuristic look of the brand new CDG airport at Paris ("James Bond Terminal") to this experience and the French truly were design pacemakers back then.



Actually it’s a good point. It was unique having the “new look”. I grew up with the cheat lines. Just is classic to me. All white, Delta used all white on itS 880 in 1959 For a few years and did it on the first widget DC-8s. I like the all white. Airlines don’t like how it shows dirt.....

Cheers
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

I am a pilot, therefore I envy no one...
 
FGITD
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:07 pm

reltney wrote:
Noshow wrote:
The "barcode" livery was a revolution back then. Pure Avantgarde. Exactly what the Concorde was. Almost all other airlines had cheat lines and the old style liveries. There was no euro white before. Add the new futuristic look of the brand new CDG airport at Paris ("James Bond Terminal") to this experience and the French truly were design pacemakers back then.



Actually it’s a good point. It was unique having the “new look”. I grew up with the cheat lines. Just is classic to me. All white, Delta used all white on itS 880 in 1959 For a few years and did it on the first widget DC-8s. I like the all white. Airlines don’t like how it shows dirt.....

Cheers


Funny enough, the Delta livery worn by the 880s looks like it would fit in reasonably well in 2020. Maybe make the cheatline wavy, and there you go.

I think the AF livery speaks for itself, given that here we are decades later, and it's almost unchanged. I know AF wasn't the first to do eurowhite, but I think they were one of the more successful. And like all major changes that the French come to stand for, I'm pretty sure they hated it at the start.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:47 pm

dmanonice wrote:
So digging into the site I listed above it looks like it may only have been F-BTSC (which eventually was the airframe that crashed at Paris) may have been the only one to wear that livery. She was used for route proving and then was leased to AF until their machines arrived, presumably in the Concorde colours. This airframe was originally intended for Pan Am. https://www.heritageconcorde.com/f-btsc-103


Yeah it seems like that was the case. There was only one painted this way during the demonstration flights and then upon delivery they all had the updated livery which lasted forever. The brochure from 1975 shows it in the new livery.

I've never seen any photos from the inaugural air France flight either. Only the inaugural ba flight.

I do have a 1:400 Concorde in this livery and it got me curious.
 
GZM1
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:54 pm

The “barcode” livery actually represents the French flag in supersonic motion. It was launched on the Concorde from day one of passenger flights in 1976, then spread fleet-wide. By the way, I too liked the old stylish bird on the 707 and 727. On the 747 it was different.
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airhansa
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:07 pm

I think the latter Air France livery looked good for its time, but that it really needs an update nowadays.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:36 pm

GZM1 wrote:
The “barcode” livery actually represents the French flag in supersonic motion. It was launched on the Concorde from day one of passenger flights in 1976, then spread fleet-wide. By the way, I too liked the old stylish bird on the 707 and 727. On the 747 it was different.

That is really cool. Thanks for the info! Was there only one in the original livery then?
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:49 pm

As said, I also think only F-BTSC wore this livery on both sides and there was the AF/BA livery demonstrator sales model. Yes it's different judging the old pin stripe livery next to the eurowhite nearly 50 years after it's inception. But trying to see it as sleek new concept with 'wow' factor built in is probably the best way to think about it. Lest we forget the Concorde required a mainly white livery for thermal control issues, even the BA Negus cheatline was thin and narrow, before giving way to the simplified Landor version in 1985. I presume an actual BOAC livery were it to happen would have been a large blue speedbird on the tail and BOAC written near the sharp end.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:42 pm

JannEejit wrote:
As said, I also think only F-BTSC wore this livery on both sides and there was the AF/BA livery demonstrator sales model. Yes it's different judging the old pin stripe livery next to the eurowhite nearly 50 years after it's inception. But trying to see it as sleek new concept with 'wow' factor built in is probably the best way to think about it. Lest we forget the Concorde required a mainly white livery for thermal control issues, even the BA Negus cheatline was thin and narrow, before giving way to the simplified Landor version in 1985. I presume an actual BOAC livery were it to happen would have been a large blue speedbird on the tail and BOAC written near the sharp end.

https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/le-concorde
This site shows F-WTSB in the livery.

https://www.heritageconcorde.com/concorde-livery
And this site says F-WTSA was the two sided demonstrator.

So maybe a few wore the livery before it entered commercial service?
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:06 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
As said, I also think only F-BTSC wore this livery on both sides and there was the AF/BA livery demonstrator sales model. Yes it's different judging the old pin stripe livery next to the eurowhite nearly 50 years after it's inception. But trying to see it as sleek new concept with 'wow' factor built in is probably the best way to think about it. Lest we forget the Concorde required a mainly white livery for thermal control issues, even the BA Negus cheatline was thin and narrow, before giving way to the simplified Landor version in 1985. I presume an actual BOAC livery were it to happen would have been a large blue speedbird on the tail and BOAC written near the sharp end.

https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/le-concorde
This site shows F-WTSB in the livery.

https://www.heritageconcorde.com/concorde-livery
And this site says F-WTSA was the two sided demonstrator.

So maybe a few wore the livery before it entered commercial service?


Good info, I remember looking into it years ago and there a few 'head scratching' moments.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:21 pm

JannEejit wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
As said, I also think only F-BTSC wore this livery on both sides and there was the AF/BA livery demonstrator sales model. Yes it's different judging the old pin stripe livery next to the eurowhite nearly 50 years after it's inception. But trying to see it as sleek new concept with 'wow' factor built in is probably the best way to think about it. Lest we forget the Concorde required a mainly white livery for thermal control issues, even the BA Negus cheatline was thin and narrow, before giving way to the simplified Landor version in 1985. I presume an actual BOAC livery were it to happen would have been a large blue speedbird on the tail and BOAC written near the sharp end.

https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/le-concorde
This site shows F-WTSB in the livery.

https://www.heritageconcorde.com/concorde-livery
And this site says F-WTSA was the two sided demonstrator.

So maybe a few wore the livery before it entered commercial service?


Good info, I remember looking into it years ago and there a few 'head scratching' moments.


For sure. My 1:400 early livery model is F-WTSB, so at least that matches the photos.
 
NYCAAer
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:58 pm

The only changes to the AF Concorde livery over the years was a change in the font of “Air France” on the fuselage, and the Hippocampe was removed from the sides by the nose, replaced with small titles “Groupe Air France.” The SkyTeam logo appeared by the entry door, and it never wore any Air France-KLM titles because the merger was a year after they were retired.
 
wernerga3
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:17 pm

NYCAAer wrote:
The only changes to the AF Concorde livery over the years was a change in the font of “Air France” on the fuselage, and the Hippocampe was removed from the sides by the nose, replaced with small titles “Groupe Air France.” The SkyTeam logo appeared by the entry door, and it never wore any Air France-KLM titles because the merger was a year after they were retired.

Yeah I was referencing the original livery before it went into service. Once it was changed upon entering service, it basically remained the same the whole time.
 
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rj968
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:38 am

Noshow wrote:
The "barcode" livery was a revolution back then. Pure Avantgarde. Exactly what the Concorde was. Almost all other airlines had cheat lines and the old style liveries. There was no euro white before. Add the new futuristic look of the brand new CDG airport at Paris ("James Bond Terminal") to this experience and the French truly were design pacemakers back then.


Seems like every year someone wants to give the French or Air France credit for “Euro White”.
As pointed out by others over the years the US carrier AirWest had this scheme in 1968. Plenty of pictures on this site. But the idea goes back at least to 1966. If Panagra hadn’t merged with Braniff before they took delivery of their DC-8-62’s they would have had Euro White in 1967.
Panagra (Pan American Grace Airways) had a Concept Color Scheme for their DC-8-62’s in 1966. This would look right at home on the flight line today. All white, including the wings and engines. Four alternating stripes of Green and Yellow coming down the tail and halfway around the aft fuselage. Large, but not quite billboard, PANAGRA above the windows. Because they merged into Braniff International in Feb 1967 the planes were delivered later that year with standard Braniff colors. There are photos of a large-scale model in this scheme in three different books that I have on the DC-8 and Braniff. I couldn’t find any on the internet to reference. I hope someone here has a picture they can post.
 
Antarius
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:47 am

rj968 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
The "barcode" livery was a revolution back then. Pure Avantgarde. Exactly what the Concorde was. Almost all other airlines had cheat lines and the old style liveries. There was no euro white before. Add the new futuristic look of the brand new CDG airport at Paris ("James Bond Terminal") to this experience and the French truly were design pacemakers back then.


Seems like every year someone wants to give the French or Air France credit for “Euro White”.
As pointed out by others over the years the US carrier AirWest had this scheme in 1968. Plenty of pictures on this site. But the idea goes back at least to 1966. If Panagra hadn’t merged with Braniff before they took delivery of their DC-8-62’s they would have had Euro White in 1967.
Panagra (Pan American Grace Airways) had a Concept Color Scheme for their DC-8-62’s in 1966. This would look right at home on the flight line today. All white, including the wings and engines. Four alternating stripes of Green and Yellow coming down the tail and halfway around the aft fuselage. Large, but not quite billboard, PANAGRA above the windows. Because they merged into Braniff International in Feb 1967 the planes were delivered later that year with standard Braniff colors. There are photos of a large-scale model in this scheme in three different books that I have on the DC-8 and Braniff. I couldn’t find any on the internet to reference. I hope someone here has a picture they can post.


I guess that shows the point. AF became known for it and made it cool.

No one really remembers that Bill Gates debuted a tablet years before the iPad. Steve Jobs just did it better.
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FGITD
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:04 am

rj968 wrote:
Noshow wrote:
The "barcode" livery was a revolution back then. Pure Avantgarde. Exactly what the Concorde was. Almost all other airlines had cheat lines and the old style liveries. There was no euro white before. Add the new futuristic look of the brand new CDG airport at Paris ("James Bond Terminal") to this experience and the French truly were design pacemakers back then.


Seems like every year someone wants to give the French or Air France credit for “Euro White”.
As pointed out by others over the years the US carrier AirWest had this scheme in 1968. Plenty of pictures on this site. But the idea goes back at least to 1966.


If we're getting that technical, AirWest had a metallic belly. So not quite all white. Course then we're delving into the world of how much color is too much to be eurowhite.

I still maintain that UTA put the white scheme to the best use, and AF perfected it. Not to mention, by this point AF has been wearing white for much longer than UTA or AirWest even existed
 
wernerga3
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Re: Did the air France Concorde fly in the original livery?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:55 pm

wernerga3 wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
wernerga3 wrote:
https://corporate.airfrance.com/fr/le-concorde
This site shows F-WTSB in the livery.

https://www.heritageconcorde.com/concorde-livery
And this site says F-WTSA was the two sided demonstrator.

So maybe a few wore the livery before it entered commercial service?


Good info, I remember looking into it years ago and there a few 'head scratching' moments.


For sure. My 1:400 early livery model is F-WTSB, so at least that matches the photos.

Well scratch that. My model is F-WTSC. So it seems there were at least 3 in this livery (1 being the dual sided demonstrator)

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