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CWL757
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El Al temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 4:48 pm

Well this caught me off guard!
ELAL is to cancel all pax and cargo flights until further notice as a result of lost revenue due to COVID19
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/el-al ... ice-633391
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MAH4546
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:00 pm

They were barely operating in the first place. The entire July schedule was two weekly round-robin flights to Paris and London, a third to just Paris, three to JFK and one each to Miami and LA.
a.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:15 pm

The schedule they were flying is because a lot of Jewish people were applying for and granted Israeli citizenship and were planning to leave their current countries to start anew in Israel. I could see foreign metal leased in like 2D or TS for aliyah flights.
 
raylee67
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 5:31 pm

I would think there are at least some air cargo demand to sustain cargo flights?
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ushermittwoch
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:01 pm

raylee67 wrote:
I would think there are at least some air cargo demand to sustain cargo flights?


Which can be covered by UPS, FedEx etc.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:16 pm

Keep the posts on aviation.
Political posts can and will result in a ban. This is your warning.

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:20 pm

Not good...

The article seems quite bleak
 
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Gonzalo
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:31 pm

While this is bad and sad, specially for the airline workers and passengers affected, ElAl is among the airlines I wouldn't worry too much regarding its future. ElAl, Copa, Aerolineas Argentinas, Aeroflot, Emirates and some others, are among the privileged airlines who will count with the support of their countries no matter what, for whatever reasons, but they will be flying again once this Pandemic is over. We can not say the same about fully privately owned airlines who are left aside and abandoned by the governments of its respective countries, all in all, a real shame and a total disgrace for the flying public...
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jetblueguy22
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:47 pm

ushermittwoch wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
I would think there are at least some air cargo demand to sustain cargo flights?


Which can be covered by UPS, FedEx etc.

Maybe for the boxes, but the actual freight, not really. Airlines aren’t flying cargo in the cabin because it’s fun.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:05 pm

raylee67 wrote:
I would think there are at least some air cargo demand to sustain cargo flights?


And aliyah travel. That's why UA is running the B78X daily on TLV-EWR (it's the only carrier other than LY that didn't completely suspend the city pair). Cargo-only flights are on leased 5Y metal (operating under an LY callsign with N486MC flying it) since LY returned its sole B744 freighter to BlackRock. However, cargo between Israel and Europe, and then Europe and USA can also be handled on 5C/X7 metal (CAL/Challenge), who also owns LACHS, the major cargo handler at LGG, also providing services to 3V, ET (freight), and QR (freight)

As for the base issue of LY's potential collapse, the pilots likely want to get the attention of the Israeli government, who isn't really keen on re-nationalization. However, the current CEO, Gonen Usishkin, isn't exactly above winding up the airline.
 
Blerg
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:21 am

What happened with the saga regarding state aid? Did they receive it in the end? I guess if this goes on they will have to apply for more soon.

What is the situation with TLV? Are foreigners flying in and out? I read that foreigners won't be allowed in until mid-August.
 
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qf789
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:31 pm

Just a reminder to keep your posts related to aviation. For non aviation discussion please discuss in the Covid-19 thread in non-aviation
Forum Moderator
 
ushermittwoch
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:17 am

jetblueguy22 wrote:
ushermittwoch wrote:
raylee67 wrote:
I would think there are at least some air cargo demand to sustain cargo flights?


Which can be covered by UPS, FedEx etc.

Maybe for the boxes, but the actual freight, not really. Airlines aren’t flying cargo in the cabin because it’s fun.


You must not be too familiar with the operations and capabilities of these companies.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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TheLion
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:36 am

lightsaber wrote:
Keep the posts on aviation.
Political posts can and will result in a ban. This is your warning.

Lightsaber



qf789 wrote:
Just a reminder to keep your posts related to aviation. For non aviation discussion please discuss in the Covid-19 thread in non-aviation


Where exactly were the political posts? I could see none above your comments above?
 
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AirKevin
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:44 am

TheLion wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
Keep the posts on aviation.
Political posts can and will result in a ban. This is your warning.

Lightsaber

qf789 wrote:
Just a reminder to keep your posts related to aviation. For non aviation discussion please discuss in the Covid-19 thread in non-aviation

Where exactly were the political posts? I could see none above your comments above?

I'm guessing they were deleted, hence the warning.
Captain Kevin
 
entdoc
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:18 pm

One of the prior posters asked what the situation is at TLV. I replied with data re new infections in the country and that post and a few back and forth replies were deleted as not being directly related to aviation.

More related to aviation TLV director calls for opening skies even with corona. He states that point of no return approaches.


https://www.timesofisrael.com/airport-c ... no-return/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Dutchy
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:29 pm

Don't know if it is considered a political post, but just wanted to ask this one.

El Al is used by the military to haul a lot of vital goods from the US to Israel. Can Israel afford to lose El Al? And if not, can we expect a bailout soon, like it has happened in a number of European cases? El Al just seem to be more a lifeline than other national airlines because of the status and the countries surrounding Israel.

If not appropriate, please delete it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
32andBelow
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:17 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Don't know if it is considered a political post, but just wanted to ask this one.

El Al is used by the military to haul a lot of vital goods from the US to Israel. Can Israel afford to lose El Al? And if not, can we expect a bailout soon, like it has happened in a number of European cases? El Al just seem to be more a lifeline than other national airlines because of the status and the countries surrounding Israel.

If not appropriate, please delete it.

This whole thing is weird. Israel won’t let el al fail. And if they do they’ll just move the assets to a new company which is basically the same.
 
entdoc
Posts: 83
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:56 pm

reports in the local press that el al accepted a government bailout that includes the government reassuming control
(by purchase of stock not taken by public which should get them a controlling share)
and sell off of some 737s and dropping non profitable routes
will try to get article link
 
entdoc
Posts: 83
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:15 pm

Article re last post from times of Israel


https://www.timesofisrael.com/el-al-acc ... ionalized/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
32andBelow
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:17 pm

It’s crazy that they aren’t even doing a 3x weekly TLVJFK to keep the link going.
 
NWADTWE16
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:21 pm

Good news for VS and their plans to keep LHR-TLV going
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
United1
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:56 pm

32andBelow wrote:
It’s crazy that they aren’t even doing a 3x weekly TLVJFK to keep the link going.


It is a bit odd ElAl isn't trying that but I guess they know what they are capable of right now. Good for UA I guess daily EWR-TLV is being complimented by a three times a week SFO-TLV.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
32andBelow
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:02 pm

United1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s crazy that they aren’t even doing a 3x weekly TLVJFK to keep the link going.


It is a bit odd ElAl isn't trying that but I guess they know what they are capable of right now. Good for UA I guess daily EWR-TLV is being complimented by a three times a week SFO-TLV.

I bet they restart it quickly with the bailout. I can’t see the government wants their flag carrier off this particular route.
 
United1
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:00 pm

32andBelow wrote:
United1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
It’s crazy that they aren’t even doing a 3x weekly TLVJFK to keep the link going.


It is a bit odd ElAl isn't trying that but I guess they know what they are capable of right now. Good for UA I guess daily EWR-TLV is being complimented by a three times a week SFO-TLV.

I bet they restart it quickly with the bailout. I can’t see the government wants their flag carrier off this particular route.


I agree ElAl will be back to NYC....if they can't make JFK/EWR work they can make anything work.

I haven't seen it announced officially but a UA insider posted that UA plans on launching three times a week ORD-TLV and will increase EWR-TLV up to 10 times a week this fall. UA is really pushing hard into TLV...that is going to make it harder to ElAl to sustainably launch flights.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
32andBelow
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:21 pm

United1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
United1 wrote:

It is a bit odd ElAl isn't trying that but I guess they know what they are capable of right now. Good for UA I guess daily EWR-TLV is being complimented by a three times a week SFO-TLV.

I bet they restart it quickly with the bailout. I can’t see the government wants their flag carrier off this particular route.


I agree ElAl will be back to NYC....if they can't make JFK/EWR work they can make anything work.

I haven't seen it announced officially but a UA insider posted that UA plans on launching three times a week ORD-TLV and will increase EWR-TLV up to 10 times a week this fall. UA is really pushing hard into TLV...that is going to make it harder to ElAl to sustainably launch flights.

El Al needs to be on NYCTLV wether it makes money or not.
 
Josh76040
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:52 pm

United1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
United1 wrote:

It is a bit odd ElAl isn't trying that but I guess they know what they are capable of right now. Good for UA I guess daily EWR-TLV is being complimented by a three times a week SFO-TLV.

I bet they restart it quickly with the bailout. I can’t see the government wants their flag carrier off this particular route.


I agree ElAl will be back to NYC....if they can't make JFK/EWR work they can make anything work.

I haven't seen it announced officially but a UA insider posted that UA plans on launching three times a week ORD-TLV and will increase EWR-TLV up to 10 times a week this fall. UA is really pushing hard into TLV...that is going to make it harder to ElAl to sustainably launch flights.


El Al will come back with a vengeance. No way will the Israelis allow United to push El Al into oblivion.
 
United1
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:11 am

Josh76040 wrote:
United1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I bet they restart it quickly with the bailout. I can’t see the government wants their flag carrier off this particular route.


I agree ElAl will be back to NYC....if they can't make JFK/EWR work they can make anything work.

I haven't seen it announced officially but a UA insider posted that UA plans on launching three times a week ORD-TLV and will increase EWR-TLV up to 10 times a week this fall. UA is really pushing hard into TLV...that is going to make it harder to ElAl to sustainably launch flights.


El Al will come back with a vengeance. No way will the Israelis allow United to push El Al into oblivion.


Oh I agree ElAl will be back....it will be interesting to see how aggressive they will be able to be. Sort of just depends on how much support ($$$) Israel gives them. NYC, LAX and MIA would cover just about all of the larger Jewish communities in the US. SFO has a smaller yet relatively wealthy population so maybe there as well.

We shall see....these are interesting times we live in.

ORD-TLV 3 times a week on UA starting in September is official. As is IAD-TLV 3 times a week re-starting in October, EWR-TLV increasing from 7 to 10 times a week in August and SFO-TLV which restarts this Wednesday 3 times a week.

Well at least there is no shortage of flights even without El Al for the moment.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
ORD Boy 2
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:11 am

I still suspect as someone who works in the Jewish world but also knows #AvGeeks ORD-TLV will happen, but no more MCO or LAS ever again to TLV... LY needs to go to business markets only.

And if UA makes ORD work, which I think it will, you know LAX-TLV would be next for LY to worry about.
 
Blerg
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:26 am

So what routes will most likely be cut? I have a feeling they will start with Vienna as I doubt they are making money while competing with both Wizz Air and Austrian Airlines. Would be interesting to know if they are making money on their India and China flights given that they have to make a huge detour.
 
strfyr51
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:12 am

Josh76040 wrote:
United1 wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I bet they restart it quickly with the bailout. I can’t see the government wants their flag carrier off this particular route.


I agree ElAl will be back to NYC....if they can't make JFK/EWR work they can make anything work.

I haven't seen it announced officially but a UA insider posted that UA plans on launching three times a week ORD-TLV and will increase EWR-TLV up to 10 times a week this fall. UA is really pushing hard into TLV...that is going to make it harder to ElAl to sustainably launch flights.


El Al will come back with a vengeance. No way will the Israelis allow United to push El Al into oblivion.

I do not think United is trying to push El Al anywhere. United flies the route because EL AL won't or Can't compete. Why? I have no Idea.
 
PDXpat
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm

Blerg wrote:
So what routes will most likely be cut? I have a feeling they will start with Vienna as I doubt they are making money while competing with both Wizz Air and Austrian Airlines. Would be interesting to know if they are making money on their India and China flights given that they have to make a huge detour.


Israeli trade with China and India is large, growing, and hugely strategic. While it's true that El Al does still need to take a big detour to BOM (and iscompetitively disadvantaged against Air India's direct route from DEL), the China routes require only a fairly minimal detour. And while the competition is growing, fares are higher and competition is less than what they face in Europe and North America.
 
Nola
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:49 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Josh76040 wrote:
United1 wrote:

I agree ElAl will be back to NYC....if they can't make JFK/EWR work they can make anything work.

I haven't seen it announced officially but a UA insider posted that UA plans on launching three times a week ORD-TLV and will increase EWR-TLV up to 10 times a week this fall. UA is really pushing hard into TLV...that is going to make it harder to ElAl to sustainably launch flights.


El Al will come back with a vengeance. No way will the Israelis allow United to push El Al into oblivion.

I do not think United is trying to push El Al anywhere. United flies the route because EL AL won't or Can't compete. Why? I have no Idea.


New flights from major UA hubs is about far more than the Jewish traveler. In terms of travelers from the US to Israel, the number of Christian travelers far outnumbers the Jewish travelers.
 
LHLX
Posts: 154
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:46 pm

Certainly the "classic" European routes will stay (LHR, CDG, FCO, MXP, MAD, BCN, FRA, MUC, ZRH, GVA, BRU, AMS, ATH, DME, OTP, SOF).
Regarding routes that used to be operated by EL AL's low-cost carrier "UP", or that have a lot of low-cost competition, they might be cut (KBP, LCA, SXF, BUD. PRG, VIE).
Then there are routes that were operated only 2-3 times per week, that were relatively new or that were not yet started (VCE, MAN, DUS, DUB, LIS) - I don't think they will be flown again or launched.
EL AL's Sun D'Or brand, that operated to holiday destinations may be kept but with much less destinations. (I think they only had 2-3 planes anyway)

In the long-haul market I can see LY focusing on the business and Jewish community cities in the US (NYC, LAX, MIA, SFO), sizing down frequency in Asia (BKK and HKG) and rely more than ever before on code-share to keep serving former destinations (especially in the long-haul market).

It all depends on what their fleet will look like - if their 6 777s will be cargo only and several of their 738s will go back to lessors, this will severely limit LY to offer a network as big as it was before. Demand will also be reduced, as there will be both less business and leisure trips.
In the past two years EL AL has expanded like never before and intended to continue to do so (SFO, BOS, ORD, NRT, LIS, DUS, DUB, LAS, MCO, MAN) and it appears that for the next two years at least this trend will have to be completely reversed.
 
Breathe
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Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:06 pm

Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:02 pm

Would aircraft like the A321LR or A321XLR be a good fit for El Al for thinner routes? Probably would be unlikely to happen based on their aircraft order history.

I think I'm right in saying El Al is the only flag carrier (excluding the never ending startup flag carriers in Africa) never to have operated or ordered an Airbus aircraft?
 
32andBelow
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:04 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
Breathe wrote:
Would aircraft like the A321LR or A321XLR be a good fit for El Al for thinner routes? Probably would be unlikely to happen based on their aircraft order history.

I think I'm right in saying El Al is the only flag carrier (excluding the never ending startup flag carriers in Africa) never to have operated or ordered an Airbus aircraft?

El al will never order airbus.
 
ORD Boy 2
Posts: 319
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Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:02 pm

 
Antarius
Posts: 2136
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: ELAL temporarily ceases ops

Wed Jul 08, 2020 4:16 pm

Breathe wrote:
Would aircraft like the A321LR or A321XLR be a good fit for El Al for thinner routes? Probably would be unlikely to happen based on their aircraft order history.

I think I'm right in saying El Al is the only flag carrier (excluding the never ending startup flag carriers in Africa) never to have operated or ordered an Airbus aircraft?


Define flag carrier. Its become an ambiguous term with former state owned yet still primary carriers etc.

That said, Cubana, LOT Polish and Aeromexico come to mind as a few that have not and do not have Airbus aircraft.
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