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Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Wed May 27, 2020 10:14 am

I saw loaded also CUN for the autumn, hopefully no second wave coming :D
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Wed May 27, 2020 10:46 am

Kikko19 wrote:
I saw loaded also CUN for the autumn, hopefully no second wave coming :D


= I just looked this up, and it is an extremely smart schedule.

LIS (2355) - CUN (0605+1)
CUN (1530) - LIS (0530+1)

Seems like it allows their entire 60+ city European network to have the latest departure out of Europe, and arrive in CUN for full day of vacation, and 1 night less of hotel. Flight is also perfectly timed for hotel check-out times.

I think this would be the only European airline arriving red-eye into CUN.

Smart move.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Wed May 27, 2020 12:26 pm

abrelosojos wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
I saw loaded also CUN for the autumn, hopefully no second wave coming :D


= I just looked this up, and it is an extremely smart schedule.

LIS (2355) - CUN (0605+1)
CUN (1530) - LIS (0530+1)

Seems like it allows their entire 60+ city European network to have the latest departure out of Europe, and arrive in CUN for full day of vacation, and 1 night less of hotel. Flight is also perfectly timed for hotel check-out times.

I think this would be the only European airline arriving red-eye into CUN.

Smart move.

Saludos,
Alex


It's ironic that this ultra leisure route would be the only(?) TATL route that is a red-eye in both directions when common a.net wisdom always said that business fliers are the ones that prefer red-eyes. I have always disagreed with this theory by the way. In my opinion the red-eyes exist in order to maximize the connectivity at an airline's hub, not because they are the preferred choice of business fliers.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu May 28, 2020 7:32 am

airbazar wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
I saw loaded also CUN for the autumn, hopefully no second wave coming :D


= I just looked this up, and it is an extremely smart schedule.

LIS (2355) - CUN (0605+1)
CUN (1530) - LIS (0530+1)

Seems like it allows their entire 60+ city European network to have the latest departure out of Europe, and arrive in CUN for full day of vacation, and 1 night less of hotel. Flight is also perfectly timed for hotel check-out times.

I think this would be the only European airline arriving red-eye into CUN.

Smart move.

Saludos,
Alex


It's ironic that this ultra leisure route would be the only(?) TATL route that is a red-eye in both directions when common a.net wisdom always said that business fliers are the ones that prefer red-eyes. I have always disagreed with this theory by the way. In my opinion the red-eyes exist in order to maximize the connectivity at an airline's hub, not because they are the preferred choice of business fliers.


a339? it's doable, family of 4 either all in the center or 2+2 I've used TP a339 to SSA and was great experience (apart from initial humidification of the cabin that felt cold). I guess lot of Spanish, Italians and maybe French will like this route.
 
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sergegva
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:47 pm

I have noticed that most TAP flights are still closed to booking on the FlyTAP website, such as flights from Geneva and Zurich. However, these are supposed to resume on July 1st.. What is surprising is that they are sold by several travel agencies, but not directly by TAP... Does anyone have any information about this? It's rather worrying for them...
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:20 pm

sergegva wrote:
I have noticed that most TAP flights are still closed to booking on the FlyTAP website, such as flights from Geneva and Zurich. However, these are supposed to resume on July 1st.. What is surprising is that they are sold by several travel agencies, but not directly by TAP... Does anyone have any information about this? It's rather worrying for them...


= Strange. I went to their site, and can clearly see both ZRH-LIS and GVA-LIS bookable. BTW, why use a travel agency in 2020?

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
Westerwaelder
Posts: 241
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2020 12:27 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:19 pm

airbazar wrote:
abrelosojos wrote:
Kikko19 wrote:
I saw loaded also CUN for the autumn, hopefully no second wave coming :D


= I just looked this up, and it is an extremely smart schedule.

LIS (2355) - CUN (0605+1)
CUN (1530) - LIS (0530+1)

Seems like it allows their entire 60+ city European network to have the latest departure out of Europe, and arrive in CUN for full day of vacation, and 1 night less of hotel. Flight is also perfectly timed for hotel check-out times.

I think this would be the only European airline arriving red-eye into CUN.

Smart move.

Saludos,
Alex


It's ironic that this ultra leisure route would be the only(?) TATL route that is a red-eye in both directions when common a.net wisdom always said that business fliers are the ones that prefer red-eyes. I have always disagreed with this theory by the way. In my opinion the red-eyes exist in order to maximize the connectivity at an airline's hub, not because they are the preferred choice of business fliers.


That might well be the case for US domestic flights. On longer longhaul routes such as South Africa to Europe or Europe to South America, most customers prefer overnight flights. They simply don't want to spend 10+ hours during the day on a plane. That goes for leisure as much as for business.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:17 pm

Any further updates on TAP's rescue package?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:19 pm

aviationlover7 wrote:
Any further updates on TAP's rescue package?

Yup. The EU has approved and the government has agreed to pump 1.2 billion Euro for now but it has asked for some concessions. Mostly they want to have more say in executive decisions. TAP will also have to submit a restructuring plan that mostly centers around reducing fleet size and employee numbers. IIRC, there should be more details on the restructuring by next week.
 
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cybergus
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:50 am

Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:24 pm

Heya all,

My sister had an itinerary from SCQ to LIS in TAP. However, upon checking it the other day, the itinerary now says OPO-LIS with the SCQ-OPO segment being done by bus. Did they cancel the route before even starting it? Shouldn't they communicate this to the passengers?
LAN Excellence in Flight
 
dcajet
Posts: 4693
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2004 9:31 am

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:59 pm

Have you talked to the airline?
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:24 pm

You might try a dummy booking for your travel date and see if they are still selling it.
 
santos
Posts: 538
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:46 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:47 pm

Hey,

The route launch has now been postponed until late March 2021z
https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... arch-2021/
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:17 pm

LIS-SCQ without American tourists connecting onto this flight makes zero sense.
My guess is TP is trying to figure out what the EU's recommendation means to them.
Portugal was supposed to open up to the world on July 1st, including Americans and Brazilians until the EU put the brakes on them just this past week.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5760
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:25 pm

I wonder what will happen now that TAP will be nationalised.

I imagine a few routes will be chopped. On the other hand, I reckon if TAP would just focus on LIS and will decrease or just close OPO's hub. If that is the case, LIS-SCQ's will make more sense.
 
santi319
Posts: 1023
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:24 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:39 pm

TAP had the right idea, connect the Americas with southern Europe with cheap fares. Yes WW tried it but TP seemed to have the Southern European and leisure destinations in their mind vs big urban centers.

In the future this plan could work, Spanish, Italian, Morrocan and French tourist destination one stop in LIS to North American urban areas and rich Latin American cities. Its a good plan. Right idea at the wrong time.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:18 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I wonder what will happen now that TAP will be nationalised.

I imagine a few routes will be chopped. On the other hand, I reckon if TAP would just focus on LIS and will decrease or just close OPO's hub. If that is the case, LIS-SCQ's will make more sense.


The latest news that I've read is that TAP is not being nationalized. Neeleman is selling his share and getting out, which to me is a huge mistake on the government's part.
The government will end up with 70% ownership which puts it in charge but I don't really know the difference between that and actual "nationalization". But the headlines so far are "TAP avoids nationalizaton".
https://econews.pt/2020/07/02/last-minu ... alization/
https://www.time24.news/en/2020/07/tap- ... leave.html
Either way I think we will see the exact opposite of what you are suggesting because with the government in control the political pressure to maintain OPO on equal grounds with LIS will be just too great. I know this because that's exactly where TAP was before. With this action TAP just took a 20 year step backwards IMO.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5760
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:40 pm

I don't see it that way.

It never made any sense in a country the size of Portugal to have two hubs (LIS and OPO). The only reason for this was LIS was full and the market was booming. Now LIS is not full anymore and the market has collapsed.

I don't see what "political pressure" will make the North. Is it going to become independent (like Catalonia or Padania)? No. Will it set up "Linhas Aéreas Portuguesas do Norte"? Who knows; it would be a failure.

Political pressure is fine when the cake is big and there is food for everybody (like pre-2020). When the cake is small it is just the fight for survival. Since TAP will need to downsize yes or yes, it will be the Lisbon economic and political powers trying to keep as much as possible in LIS. Which is just natural as Lisbon anyway is the economic, corporate, tourism and political capital of Portugal.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:33 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
I don't see it that way.

It never made any sense in a country the size of Portugal to have two hubs (LIS and OPO). The only reason for this was LIS was full and the market was booming. Now LIS is not full anymore and the market has collapsed.

I don't see what "political pressure" will make the North. Is it going to become independent (like Catalonia or Padania)? No. Will it set up "Linhas Aéreas Portuguesas do Norte"? Who knows; it would be a failure.

Political pressure is the ONLY reason TAP flies p-2-p from OPO, and even some long haul routes at that. As you say, there is zero necessity for TAP to operate p-2-p out of OPO and I agree. Every one with a logical mind agrees.
LIS being at capacity has nothing to do with it. TAP has had flights from OPO for decades and a couple of years ago when it cut routes from OPO it created a political pandemonium.
I don't think that you fully understand the political environment in Portugal. To win a national election a party needs votes in the north and south. You cannot win a national election by ignoring or alienating either greater Porto or greater Lisbon. BA can ignore Manchester because they are not government owned. LH can ignore Berlin, AF can ignore Marseille because they are not government owned. A government owned airline needs to satisfy political interests. It's that simple. That is why as a general rule of thumb, government owned airlines are failures.
 
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mercure1
Topic Author
Posts: 4791
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:41 pm

Well looks like its done.
Neeleman(Atlantic Gateway) will cease being TAP shareholder giving state controlling stake in the airline in return for capital injection.

https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2020/07 ... l-tap.html
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2432YT
mercure f-wtcc
 
Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:41 am

well (or necessarily) done! no alternatives around I guess.
capitalism is where profits are privatized and costs are socialized. Covid19 gave another proof of it.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5760
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:48 am

airbazar wrote:
I don't think that you fully understand the political environment in Portugal. To win a national election a party needs votes in the north and south. You cannot win a national election by ignoring or alienating either greater Porto or greater Lisbon. BA can ignore Manchester because they are not government owned.


I understand Portugal. There is nothing exceptional about it, as some of you want to picture it. There is nothing exceptional about OPO which at best is a secondary market. There are political elections and "regionalisms" in every other country in Europe. And in the upcoming crisis (which undoubtedly will make Portugal head towards a major economic crash), the last worry of most people in Northern Portugal is whether TAP has flights to Milan or Brussels from OPO.

Alitalia (nationalised) has largely ignored the wealthier, more populated North of Italy (which wants to become independent) to favour Rome. Iberia (even before privatisation) ignored Barcelona (and Catalonia) historically. And Milan and Barcelona are much more key and "controversial" markets than OPO, being Portugal a very "homogeneous" country.

Having this dual hub (LIS/OPO) was a sign of the times, of abundance. Let's say TAP had 100 flights, so 80 were to LIS and 20 to OPO. If tomorrow TAP downsizes to 70 flights... LIS is going to do everything in their hands to keep those 70 flights. Which is not also "natural" but also recommended in order to keep a competitive hub. Splitting those flights over two hubs (and neither TAP or Portugal are Lufthansa or Germany to handle two hubs like FRA or MUC) will only make things worse.
 
dfpinto
Posts: 84
Joined: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:48 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:43 am

I have to agree with our fellow user from Santiago. Portugal is too small for a 2 hub operation and looking at the near-future prospects, people all over the country should be more worried if they'll have a job and food on the table rather than a direct connection to Milan.

I followed this case on the news and honestly it's getting so exhausting. They're kicking out Neeleman from the shareholder structure and selling it as a victory. You have one of the best entrepreneurs in the industry backing you up, but that's not good enough apparently, because it doesn't get you votes. I think we really need another Troika to put some sense into these politicians.
 
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fidelidade
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:55 am

dfpinto wrote:
I have to agree with our fellow user from Santiago. Portugal is too small for a 2 hub operation and looking at the near-future prospects, people all over the country should be more worried if they'll have a job and food on the table rather than a direct connection to Milan.

I followed this case on the news and honestly it's getting so exhausting. They're kicking out Neeleman from the shareholder structure and selling it as a victory. You have one of the best entrepreneurs in the industry backing you up, but that's not good enough apparently, because it doesn't get you votes. I think we really need another Troika to put some sense into these politicians.


This is so right. I have been living here, and the Minister Pedro is absolutely ego maniac and crazy. He thinks he can run a better airline than Neeleman. The good news is this is going to Brussels and they just made their life more complicated. After all, who will believe in a government plan?

Only the CEO Antonolado has been sacked. Let us see. I hope the rest of the government and the private shareholder has some sense. TAP has a very strong management team, with Rafael their CFO from Azul (though, a liability). Their chief commercial officer (Arik) is one of the smartest rising airline stars out there. He has been there 8 months, and pre-COVID was already showing full revenue turnaround and common sense network decisions. I hear their chief operations guy (Ramiro) is very well regarded and ensured improvements in on time at LIS hub.

It would be crazy to me that in the middle of the greatest airline storm, if the government is political and dumb enough to fire them all.
 
a350lover
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:28 am

What's the possible outcome of TAP's nationalization? Do you them reorganizing the network?
 
cityshuttle
Posts: 148
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2017 3:56 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:57 pm

According to a statement of the government, TAP shall continue to be run as a private company with no interaction of the government.

Therefore slight route adjustments due to COVID-19 may be possible, but I think they won’t necessarily skip half of their network once a new leadership is taking over.
 
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AECM
Posts: 317
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 2:52 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:05 pm

The PT Government intend to contract an external company to hire a new independent and international management team. TAP will shrink in order to survive and grow again in the future.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Did TP cancelled SCQ-LIS before even started it?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 1:18 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
I don't think that you fully understand the political environment in Portugal. To win a national election a party needs votes in the north and south. You cannot win a national election by ignoring or alienating either greater Porto or greater Lisbon. BA can ignore Manchester because they are not government owned.


I understand Portugal. There is nothing exceptional about it, as some of you want to picture it. There is nothing exceptional about OPO which at best is a secondary market. There are political elections and "regionalisms" in every other country in Europe. And in the upcoming crisis (which undoubtedly will make Portugal head towards a major economic crash), the last worry of most people in Northern Portugal is whether TAP has flights to Milan or Brussels from OPO.

Alitalia (nationalised) has largely ignored the wealthier, more populated North of Italy (which wants to become independent) to favour Rome. Iberia (even before privatisation) ignored Barcelona (and Catalonia) historically. And Milan and Barcelona are much more key and "controversial" markets than OPO, being Portugal a very "homogeneous" country.


Portugal is different in a context that TAP is government owned. Alitalia is in shambles in part because for decades they were forced to run a dual hub operation between FCO and MXP. Iberia was in shambles until IAG rescued it from the government's hands. They too had a significant presence in Barcelona at one point but they cut most of the routes after privatization.
Let me make it clear: I want TAP to stop flying p-2-p from OPO. It's bad for TAP. But under government control i know that the exact opposite will happen.
This is a bad deal for the Portuguese tax payer. It's worse than bad, it's horrible.
 
kipfilet
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:02 pm

cityshuttle wrote:
According to a statement of the government, TAP shall continue to be run as a private company with no interaction of the government.

Therefore slight route adjustments due to COVID-19 may be possible, but I think they won’t necessarily skip half of their network once a new leadership is taking over.


Still they need to deal with the fallout from COVID in order to survive. They were close to insolvency (and that is why govt intervention was needed). I predict that the route network will shrink substantially.
 
aviationlover7
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:35 am

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:35 am

Now that David Neeleman is out, CEO Antonoaldo Neves sacked and the Portuguese Gov. has a majority stake, will TAP’s strategy change?
 
airbazar
Posts: 10168
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:28 am

aviationlover7 wrote:
Now that David Neeleman is out, CEO Antonaldo Neves sacked and the Portuguese Gov. has a majority stake, will TAP’s strategy change?

Unfortunately I see no other scenario. IMO they were on a really good path. This is bad news for all involved except a hand full of well connected people who will make millions out it. The tax payers will now have to continuously pump money into the airline. The government already warned that the 1.2 billion is only the first installment to keep the airline operating until the end of the year, which means more money is coming and as a government owned airline they can't seek money from capital markets. And if that happens the EU will force them to significantly cut routes like they did to LOT. I can't imagine that there are good airline executives out there that know the TATL market well, that are either available or willing to take the job and implement a long term strategy. Neeleman and Neves actually had skin in the game. They put up their own money. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a scenario where this airline is still operating in 3 years in a function other that a very basic route structure and very unprofitable.
 
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Polot
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Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:36 am

airbazar wrote:
aviationlover7 wrote:
Now that David Neeleman is out, CEO Antonaldo Neves sacked and the Portuguese Gov. has a majority stake, will TAP’s strategy change?
I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a scenario where this airline is still operating in 3 years in a function other that a very basic route structure and very unprofitable.

Everything you mentioned was going to happen regardless thanks to covid. TAP may have been “on a really good path” but let’s not pretend they have been wildly profitable the past couple of years, and that was during a boom period. They have been on a “really exciting for Portugal/TAP fans but still needing work on getting consistently high profits” path.

There’s no way now TAP could continue on that same growth path without adjustment and expect be profitable. Neeleman (who it should be noted has a good track record of starting airlines, not turning around established ones, and has to focus on Breeze) and Neves are not magicians. Do you think Neeleman and Neves would commit to pouring billions of their own money into the airline instead of taxpayers as TAP navigates through this crisis? Neeleman is smart enough to know when to exit.
 
Kikko19
Posts: 681
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:45 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:37 pm

Polot wrote:
airbazar wrote:
aviationlover7 wrote:
Now that David Neeleman is out, CEO Antonaldo Neves sacked and the Portuguese Gov. has a majority stake, will TAP’s strategy change?
I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a scenario where this airline is still operating in 3 years in a function other that a very basic route structure and very unprofitable.

Everything you mentioned was going to happen regardless thanks to covid. TAP may have been “on a really good path” but let’s not pretend they have been wildly profitable the past couple of years, and that was during a boom period. They have been on a “really exciting for Portugal/TAP fans but still needing work on getting consistently high profits” path.

There’s no way now TAP could continue on that same growth path without adjustment and expect be profitable. Neeleman (who it should be noted has a good track record of starting airlines, not turning around established ones, and has to focus on Breeze) and Neves are not magicians. Do you think Neeleman and Neves would commit to pouring billions of their own money into the airline instead of taxpayers as TAP navigates through this crisis? Neeleman is smart enough to know when to exit.

most of airlines will fall or get nationalized (even with 'loans') so I don't see the fate different for TP or LH or UA... govts will protect and nationalize as much as they can. rich will get richer and poor poorer. that is what happens during crisis, capitalism or socialism.
 
2eng2efficient
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:30 pm

Re: TAP Air Portugal's post COVID-19 crisis

Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:07 pm

It looks like they have LIS-JFK loaded for December, now using an A321LR.

Unbelievably cheap RT fares to Europe right now, but far too much uncertainty for me to pull the trigger, sadly.
 
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mercure1
Topic Author
Posts: 4791
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: TAP post 1H 2019 loss; government pushes Neeleman to sell stake

Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:25 pm

In Brazilian regulatory filing Azul states it netted equivalent of USD$12.2mil for its 6% stake in TAP. Part of deal Azul will not exercise right to convert 90 million euros worth of bonds into equity.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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fidelidade
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:17 pm

Here is what people are telling me at TAP. What do we think?

1) For destinations: AGA, SCQ, PDL-YYZ, TLV, and DME have all moved to May 2021
2) For fleet: Rapid exit of ATR's and 320-ceos; heavy reliance on E90/E95
3) For product: New Premium Economy in the works across network, including all European segments. In Europe, it will be Y+ and Y; long haul will have J, Y+, and Y
4) For management: Antonaldo Neves (CEO) and Rafael Quintas (CFO) are out. Ramiro Saquiero (COO) is apparently leaving for Aegean Airlines. Arik De (CCO) is leaving for Air Canada

I think some of them are inevitable, but really sad if true at the management level. They are 4 big names, and TAP will struggle filling these names. Of course, anyone can get a B-grade airline person laid off. Too bad, we have no real Portuguese talent here.
 
a350lover
Posts: 874
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:21 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:27 pm

fidelidade wrote:
Here is what people are telling me at TAP. What do we think?
1) For destinations: AGA, SCQ, PDL-YYZ, TLV, and DME have all moved to May 2021
2) For fleet: Rapid exit of ATR's and 320-ceos; heavy reliance on E90/E95
3) For product: New Premium Economy in the works across network, including all European segments. In Europe, it will be Y+ and Y; long haul will have J, Y+, and Y


I wonder if "just" that is enough for beating the covid tsunami...
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:38 pm

fidelidade wrote:
Here is what people are telling me at TAP. What do we think?

1) For destinations: AGA, SCQ, PDL-YYZ, TLV, and DME have all moved to May 2021


The new LIS-CPT/CUN still on for this year?
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3239
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:55 pm

that would be quite the exit with your top 4 C-level all leaving.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:14 pm

CALMSP wrote:
that would be quite the exit with your top 4 C-level all leaving.


= Well, the government fired the CEO on national TV. Does not bode well for top talent to keep staying does it? I have heard mixed things about Ramiro, but Rafael is very very good. Last year, he won the best airline CFO award globally, and is balanced and a pair of safe hands. He also was key to do the debt restructuring for TAP before COVID. I have said this on the forum before. Also, Arik is truly one of the next generation airline leaders out there. It would be a pity if he was to leave just when TAP needed to perform a restructuring plan. Not surprised though. He is Canadian and former WestJet. Air Canada could benefit from some non-stale thinking to shake things out.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
tobsw
Posts: 136
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:29 pm

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:18 pm

TAP has been (re)nationalised. One condition, management has to leave.
 
Sdmccray1984
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:07 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:32 pm

Back in May(2020), I booked a TAP flight for February 2021 round trip JFK-LIS. At that point, the website said that the equipment would be an A330-900neo(which I flew on in February). A few days ago, TAP canceled that flight & downgraded the equipment to an A321LR. NYC is one of the most prestigious routes out of Lisboa. So if demand is dropping so much that TAP would do that, I wonder if the flight will even exist at all by next February...
 
Sdmccray1984
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2020 2:07 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:32 pm

Back in May(2020), I booked a TAP flight for February 2021 round trip JFK-LIS. At that point, the website said that the equipment would be an A330-900neo(which I flew on in February). A few days ago, TAP canceled that flight & downgraded the equipment to an A321LR. NYC is one of the most prestigious routes out of Lisboa. So if demand is dropping so much that TAP would do that, I wonder if the flight will even exist at all by next February...
 
NYCSKYGUY
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:35 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Back in May(2020), I booked a TAP flight for February 2021 round trip JFK-LIS. At that point, the website said that the equipment would be an A330-900neo(which I flew on in February). A few days ago, TAP canceled that flight & downgraded the equipment to an A321LR. NYC is one of the most prestigious routes out of Lisboa. So if demand is dropping so much that TAP would do that, I wonder if the flight will even exist at all by next February...


The 321LR is really optimal for that flight. Why not use it? It has the range, and most likely the capacity at this point. Probably costs 1/2 the amount to operate (just a guess). Smart move TAP.
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4318
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:47 pm

NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Back in May(2020), I booked a TAP flight for February 2021 round trip JFK-LIS. At that point, the website said that the equipment would be an A330-900neo(which I flew on in February). A few days ago, TAP canceled that flight & downgraded the equipment to an A321LR. NYC is one of the most prestigious routes out of Lisboa. So if demand is dropping so much that TAP would do that, I wonder if the flight will even exist at all by next February...


The 321LR is really optimal for that flight. Why not use it? It has the range, and most likely the capacity at this point. Probably costs 1/2 the amount to operate (just a guess). Smart move TAP.


= Absolutely agree. I just looked at their schedule, and it seems they replaced a 339 with 2 321-LR. If you follow Arik's career, he is big on frequency;, and this is the right thing to do. Double frequency allows more connections at their LIS hub. Honestly, I am surprised they did not do this before. Too bad he is leaving for Air Canada.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
User avatar
fidelidade
Posts: 71
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:15 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:51 pm

I checked with my internal contact and it is exactly like what is said above. The network team has been told to use the LR as much as possible as apparently Arik wants to provide coverage to all places. In an internal video, he said he wants to fly given Lisbon's strategic advantage. I was told they have now put the LR to Boston and Toronto as well which are usually 339 markets. Also, Montreal is still starting at the end of July as bookings are strong.

My source also tells me that no decision has been made on Cancun and Cape Town and that the belief is that it is too early for now.
 
Duartelmatos
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:33 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:52 pm

There will be 2 daily flights on A321LR to Newark and one daily on A321LR to JFK. The A321LR is TAP’s aircraft with the best feedback from the passengers
 
flyingqueen
Posts: 58
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:54 pm

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:05 am

If this is true, it really is a big loss for TAP. Just when they need smart people, they let them leave. I agree with the other poster, both Rafael and Arik are very smart people. I hope the Board is smart enough to retain them. It is funny. TAP needed a totally different approach to commercial planning, and I thought Arik was the right person to lead it. Too bad though. Air Canada is a winner here. Wonder what he will do there as AC network planning really is way too YUL focussed.
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8103
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:36 pm

Duartelmatos wrote:
There will be 2 daily flights on A321LR to Newark and one daily on A321LR to JFK. The A321LR is TAP’s aircraft with the best feedback from the passengers


Which passengers? If they lose many J (and I mean J, not heavily discounted long-haul business) passengers who believe that a 321 (irrespective of seat type) doesn't offer a suitable long-haul experience they're not coming out ahead.

As for frequency, what incremental destinations do they get with a second NYC-LIS flight? Are the continental and Africa departures not banked?
 
Duartelmatos
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:33 am

Re: TAP Changes Rumor

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:06 pm

Currently TAP has a question at the end of each flight asking how the experience was. The A321LR has the best feedback from the fleet. Besides, the business class available on these aircrafts is Long Haul business. It’s a fact that they only have 16 J seats but it is also true that the A321Lr is the aircraft with the best performance too.
The frequencies I said are available on the website and they can obviously change. And yes, not only does the second flight to EWR expand the network in terms of connecting flights, but also offers a good schedule for both people on business travel and other people who can take a flight after their work schedule.
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