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apodino
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AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:48 am

So it seems that prior to Covid that AA management started getting concerned about their product producing less revenue than competitors and they were starting to think that the decision to remove seatback videos on the narrow body fleet was killing revenue. Covid hit, and AA is doubling down on the Oasis project, but now is reconsidering thinking that when travel resumes, there will still be a revenue issue. Here is an article explaining this.

https://viewfromthewing.com/report-american-airlines-considers-restoring-seat-back-video-screens/

My opinion is, if Parker and Co backtrack on this and go back to seatback videos, Parker is done.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:58 am

Here’s the fundamental problem with seatback IFE: my kids love it. I don’t care. So it’s a differentiator for leisure passengers but not those of us who pay the bills.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
skylor
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:07 am

This conversation is so tiring. They are not going to add seatback IFE. And they're definitely not going to be doing it during a global recession and pandemic while they're losing tens of millions of dollars daily.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:08 am

Cubsrule wrote:
Here’s the fundamental problem with seatback IFE: my kids love it. I don’t care. So it’s a differentiator for leisure passengers but not those of us who pay the bills.


Most people care about PTVs. Everyone I know not on a.net says their plane was "old" or "crappy" and it's just because it didn't have a PTV. Every flight I'm on, majority of people are using them always.

I think AA will revert this, but after covid unless they just decide to pivot to be a true ULCC. Oasis config was a terrible idea and went too far. It has a reputation so large its hurt AAs at this point.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:20 am

I agree this conversation is so tiring (and often ends in disappointment, at least for me).

I have always viewed the IFE removal as a flawed decision. Kids love it. Families love it. The vast majority of passengers love it.

Streaming-IFE is terrible, IMO. I couldn't get it to work on my last three flights (L-US A319s). I don't have a tablet, and it is a real pain to watch something because you constantly either have to have your tray table down or hold my laptop in my lap.

I honestly think that if AA reverted this position it would take away the negative reputation of the Oasis config. IIRC the L-AA A319s are keeping their screens. I don't see why they can't keep the screens on a portion of the 738/A321 fleet where they need to IFE to be competitive. If I lived in BOS and flew BOS-LAX regularly, I would certainly book DL/B6 over AA because of the guaranteed PTVs.
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catiii
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:31 am

USAirALB wrote:
I agree this conversation is so tiring (and often ends in disappointment, at least for me).

I have always viewed the IFE removal as a flawed decision. Kids love it. Families love it. The vast majority of passengers love it.

Streaming-IFE is terrible, IMO. I couldn't get it to work on my last three flights (L-US A319s). I don't have a tablet, and it is a real pain to watch something because you constantly either have to have your tray table down or hold my laptop in my lap.

I honestly think that if AA reverted this position it would take away the negative reputation of the Oasis config. IIRC the L-AA A319s are keeping their screens. I don't see why they can't keep the screens on a portion of the 738/A321 fleet where they need to IFE to be competitive. If I lived in BOS and flew BOS-LAX regularly, I would certainly book DL/B6 over AA because of the guaranteed PTVs.


Streaming IFE is carrier dependent. With FlyFi on B6, or the content in the Hub, it's a much better experience. Same with DL, and the UA product is pretty good as well.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:39 am

skylor wrote:
This conversation is so tiring. They are not going to add seatback IFE. And they're definitely not going to be doing it during a global recession and pandemic while they're losing tens of millions of dollars daily.


I don't know how they justify the capex in the liquidity pickle they find themselves. If they announce it but don't have many planes retrofitted even 18 months from now it just makes knowledgeable passengers even more cynical.

Cubsrule wrote:
Here’s the fundamental problem with seatback IFE: my kids love it. I don’t care. So it’s a differentiator for leisure passengers but not those of us who pay the bills.


That is the problem - how does AVOD pay for itself? The counter-examples to AA's screenless world (and WN, and AS) are DL and B6. DL was getting higher TRASM than AA but there are many things DL does better than AA (see the op metrics on bags, cancellations, IDB, on-time...) and I don't see how that premium can be attributed (much) to AVOD.
 
PHLspecial
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:47 am

The stream on your personal device is quite annoying. I don't like my that my phone gets super hot while streaming.

I get it AA saves a ton of money from not having IFEs but I hold them to a higher standard because they are a full service airline. I get IFE makes no money for them and that AA does not need to have the highest passenger satisfaction. Hell UA is still getting away with this. Unless AA and UA cares for better experience for economy passengers it's just not worth to them for IFEs. Problem is we leisure passengers are price sensitive.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:50 am

PTVs are so nice to have at least with a moving map so I have more information. Delta has them on their narrowbody fleet and they enjoy great brand satisfaction. American cares more about the bottom line and in some ways its understandable. COVID gives them an opportunity to rethink what they're doing. Air fares are in the toilet across the board, I just bought a nonstop flight doing MIA-CMH for $38 on American you are close to price parity with LCCs. COVID has cut routes so dramatically that people are now looking beyond what airline is the cheapest because they're all cheap. They have an opportunity to take a step back, see what works for both economics and passenger comfort, and go from there. Im honestly okay with the slimline seats they're not that bad, I'll survive the small lavs, maybe it means Americans will start dieting better, but give us IFE in return other than a stupid, flimsy tablet/phone holder for my phone.
 
rising
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:54 am

The nice thing about Oasis is it will bring in-seat power. PTVs are still on long-haul aircraft. They also have a pretty good library and live tv. Not sure this a major disadvantage.

I never understood how AA taking out PTVs on domestic aircraft makes some think they're turning into the White Star Line, while Southwest does not even offer in-seat power, let alone PTVs. Yet Southwest is for many a customer favorite over AA even without those things.

It will be nice when these cabins get standardized.
If it doesn't make sense, it's probably not true.
 
apodino
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 am

rising wrote:
The nice thing about Oasis is it will bring in-seat power. PTVs are still on long-haul aircraft. They also have a pretty good library and live tv. Not sure this a major disadvantage.

I never understood how AA taking out PTVs on domestic aircraft makes some think they're turning into the White Star Line, while Southwest does not even offer in-seat power, let alone PTVs. Yet Southwest is for many a customer favorite over AA even without those things.

It will be nice when these cabins get standardized.

I actually don't mind the streaming service personally. That being said AA needs to do a better job of letting the customers know that they need the AA app in order to access it. The first time you get on a plane with the streaming service is actually when you first find out you need the app as there is no mention of this in the gate area or anywhere prior to boarding. And good luck trying to download it after boarding over 4G.


This article got me thinking though. It points out that AA is losing the Frequent Flyer and the premium customer, and this is one of a few reasons why. It almost looks to me like the people that run the spreadsheets look at costs, think this will work ok to cut costs. The problem is that some of these decisions not only cut costs, but cost revenue as well, in some cases more than offsets the cost savings. Does Management even consider how the public will react to these changes before they make them, and how much it will hurt them in the wallet? Remember this was the management team that tried to sell drinks in flight at US Airways, before having to retreat on that?
 
AWACSooner
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 am

rising wrote:

It will be nice when these cabins get standardized.

See you in 2050 when that finally happens ;)
 
DFW17L
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:06 am

No thanks. If I want a bunch of flashing screens, I’ll go to Vegas. Meanwhile, BYOD.
 
moa999
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:14 am

Nothing worse than some kid playing games on IFE and hitting the back of your seat every 5 seconds.

Give me BYOD any day.

The in-seat hardware quickly gets dated, scratched etc, whereas people update tablets and phones regularly and look after them. And on some BYO installs you still have a moving map.

From Australia where I'm most familiar. The former VA was BYO on all aircraft (having deinstalled an old 6" satellite system), and QF is similar on half its 737s and most of the domestic 330s. Both carriers apps work well in my experience.

It's a bit of a pain for the infrequent traveller who may not have the app installed, but they typically aren't the profit generators for the airlines.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:17 am

Huh....at first I thought this was more corporate gaslighting by AA today, along with their announcement of summer 2021 flying that is "only" going to be down 25%, we're doubling down on SEA, and starting SEA-BLR this winter....LOL.

The article isn't anything official and based on rumor from some source. Granted, I wouldn't doubt that somewhere deep down in middle-management within some silo within the company that some group is looking at the business case. In this era as some form of self-perservation with the looming job cut, but if your functional group has this responsibility you are going to march ahead. The ship may be taking on water, the forest may be on fire, but the deck still need to be cleaned and well if you still have a job you need to pretend to say busy and find loose change lost in the couch.

This won't see the light of day any and any CAPEX spend for at least 3-5 years
 
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ADent
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:33 am

I don’t really care - my iPhone works great with pre-loaded stuff or the streaming app. Battery life is good, but I have a battrey pack. A phone/tablet shelf would be nice.

But PLEASE no under seat IFE boxes!
 
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1337Delta764
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:04 am

If it does happen, I would see this as a major victory for the U.S. domestic inflight experience. I would rather have in-seat IFE than be looking down at my phone.
 
smflyer
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:08 am

Why not just hand out iPads in first class and main cabin extra? and then charge $10 to regular economy, add in free wifi with the rental and you got yourself a big money maker. No more under seat heavy electronics or seat back tv that get outdated in a couple years, just buy new ipads.
 
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fbgdavidson
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:23 am

smflyer wrote:
Why not just hand out iPads in first class and main cabin extra? and then charge $10 to regular economy, add in free wifi with the rental and you got yourself a big money maker. No more under seat heavy electronics or seat back tv that get outdated in a couple years, just buy new ipads.


Don't AS do this?

On the premium transcontinental routes AA used to hand out DVD players with a huge library of DVDs, at least they did in F. These were replaced in the late 2000s by early tablets. (This was back when it was operated by 767-200s)
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F9Animal
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:08 am

Nothing... And I mean nothing sucks more than sitting on a 4 hour flight with nothing to play with. I love IFE, and it really does make a huge difference. It's even better for families too. Why they took them out is as cheap as cheap gets. Boneheaded move to remove them IMO.
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n7371f
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:15 am

Of interest inflight entertainment providers, and this includes Delta FP, are scrambling to rearrange in-seat TV for non-contact. I've seen some prototypes some of which include a bluetooth system using a smart phone.

As for AA, they can't figure out who they are it seems. At their core they're America West. No one I talked to today sees any remote reasoning to doing a 180 in this present operating climate and adding back inseat IFE.
 
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LAXdenizen
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:30 am

I will fly transcon only on a carrier that offers seatback IFE. I start at Delta.

When I travel with my family, seatback IFE is mandatory for my sanity. I don't let them play games, and always insist they touch the screen gently. Again, we start with Delta.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:38 am

I like IFE as it keeps the other idiot sedated. Sadly, it has been too long since I met a stranger on a flight who was great conversation.

When I first saw IFE, on a Virgin Atlantic flight, when they were the only ones to have it, was right out of an Orwellian novel. A full 747, each staring at a screen smaller than today's largest smartphones, but quiet. No arguing. Hundreds of people sedated.

That is why I love IFE, to sedate the plane and let me read. I turn on the IFE as people think watching it doing something, but few understand reading...

Lightsaber
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ERAUMBA
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:42 am

apodino wrote:
My opinion is, if Parker and Co backtrack on this and go back to seatback videos, Parker is done.


“Seatback videos” as you so eloquently put it, and decisions to install them on a series of aircraft will oust the CEO of American Airlines? Really??!!?? THAT one single factor in this enormous worldwide reduction of air travel will be the standalone factor which will decide his future employment??? I’ll see ‘Family Airlines’ fly a fleet of 707’s before I see your ridiculous prediction proved true. [Full Disclaimer: I am no Doug Parker fan but this discussion is so tiring].
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:49 am

Its so funny how this is such a first world problem. I just bring a book and a crossword puzzle. I'm set for anything of transcon length or less. Problem solved.
 
alasizon
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:53 am

Aptivaboy wrote:
Its so funny how this is such a first world problem. I just bring a book and a crossword puzzle. I'm set for anything of transcon length or less. Problem solved.


Many now just don't have the same preference for paper in their hands. Whether it be crosswords, word searches or an actual book, the number of people that use that for entertainment are getting smaller by the day.
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AA747123
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:03 am

There is no way AA is going back to IFE. The OASIS (screen less) seats are all bought and paid for. The majority of the 737's are complete. AA does not have the money now to go back and buy new seats and reconfigure airplanes back. Thats JUST the 737s. The LUS airplanes never had the IFE, so again a huge expense.
Sorry its wishful thinking but AA will never go back to IFE
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:05 am

skylor wrote:
This conversation is so tiring. They are not going to add seatback IFE. And they're definitely not going to be doing it during a global recession and pandemic while they're losing tens of millions of dollars daily.


AA already has seatback video across a large part of the domestic fleet. It’s not about spending money to add it it’s about saving money by not removing it.
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FlyHappy
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:10 am

rising wrote:

I never understood how AA taking out PTVs on domestic aircraft makes some think they're turning into the White Star Line, while Southwest does not even offer in-seat power, let alone PTVs. Yet Southwest is for many a customer favorite over AA even without those things.


Because SWA offers other values AA does not - like no change fees, free bags, uncomplicated pricing.
Removing PTV is only one of many things that makes modern AA economy a poor experience, certainly poorer than SWA, on similar routes.

I say this as someone who avoids SWA when possible. But AA even more so.
 
AA747123
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:11 am

MAH4546 wrote:
skylor wrote:
This conversation is so tiring. They are not going to add seatback IFE. And they're definitely not going to be doing it during a global recession and pandemic while they're losing tens of millions of dollars daily.


AA already has seatback video across a large part of the domestic fleet. It’s not about spending money to add it it’s about saving money by not removing it.


The money is already spent and budgeted. The seats are bought and paid for. AA does not really incur and additional expense to remove and retrofit the airplanes. Infact AA is accelerating the project with the majority of its fleet grounded,
 
WN732
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:17 am

FlyHappy wrote:
rising wrote:

I never understood how AA taking out PTVs on domestic aircraft makes some think they're turning into the White Star Line, while Southwest does not even offer in-seat power, let alone PTVs. Yet Southwest is for many a customer favorite over AA even without those things.


Because SWA offers other values AA does not - like no change fees, free bags, uncomplicated pricing.
Removing PTV is only one of many things that makes modern AA economy a poor experience, certainly poorer than SWA, on similar routes.

I say this as someone who avoids SWA when possible. But AA even more so.


You're really spot on. AA Basic Economy fares usually match WN or vice versa, which causes you to get more value out of the WN ticket than the AA ticket. In my experience United is also in the same catagory when it comes to Basic Economy. In some cases you'll even get more legroom on WN economy seats than UA and AA.
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Many now just don't have the same preference for paper in their hands. Whether it be crosswords, word searches or an actual book, the number of people that use that for entertainment are getting smaller by the day.


Oh, believe me, I know! I'm 53. I suspect that people from around my generation may be about the last who can handle things like long flights without needing to be distracted by screens, I pads and the like. We possess useful attention spans. The last time I flew, a kid had a meltdown when their device failed or ran out of juice or something. Me? I just pulled out a book on Waterloo and had some me-time fun.

Back on track, removing the seat back IFE was almost certainly a mistake. Once people are accustomed to seat back IFE, then they tend to get upset at its removal. Assuming it can be made small and light enough, then keeping it as a useful amenity should have been a priority for AA, at least until streaming at 30,000 feet becomes far more reliable than it currently is. And, don't even get me started about streaming on oceanic flights!
 
Exeiowa
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Many now just don't have the same preference for paper in their hands. Whether it be crosswords, word searches or an actual book, the number of people that use that for entertainment are getting smaller by the day.


Oh, believe me, I know! I'm 53. I suspect that people from around my generation may be about the last who can handle things like long flights without needing to be distracted by screens, I pads and the like. We possess useful attention spans. The last time I flew, a kid had a meltdown when their device failed or ran out of juice or something. Me? I just pulled out a book on Waterloo and had some me-time fun.

Back on track, removing the seat back IFE was almost certainly a mistake. Once people are accustomed to seat back IFE, then they tend to get upset at its removal. Assuming it can be made small and light enough, then keeping it as a useful amenity should have been a priority for AA, at least until streaming at 30,000 feet becomes far more reliable than it currently is. And, don't even get me started about streaming on oceanic flights!


You need the flickering screen to distract you from the fact the seats are uncomfortable, smaller and closer together.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:38 pm

Seatback IFE is nothing but a MPGI. I’ll pass.
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apodino
Topic Author
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:50 pm

ERAUMBA wrote:
apodino wrote:
My opinion is, if Parker and Co backtrack on this and go back to seatback videos, Parker is done.


“Seatback videos” as you so eloquently put it, and decisions to install them on a series of aircraft will oust the CEO of American Airlines? Really??!!?? THAT one single factor in this enormous worldwide reduction of air travel will be the standalone factor which will decide his future employment??? I’ll see ‘Family Airlines’ fly a fleet of 707’s before I see your ridiculous prediction proved true. [Full Disclaimer: I am no Doug Parker fan but this discussion is so tiring].

Let me spell it out for you. Parker and Company made a decision to remove the screens, and replace the seats. Doing so requires millions of dollars in CAPEX spending. Now all of a sudden, Parker discovers that after spending all this money, there is blowback and harm to the revenue. So now he rethinks things and reconsiders putting back the screens. This would require millions more in CAPEX spending that didn't have to happen if they had left the screens in in the first place. So what has happened is way more CAPEX money has been spent than should be, and revenue has taken a hit. In the middle of a pandemic, when Cash Conservation is key and the company is trying to survive, this is suicide. That is why I said what I did.

That being said, there is no way I see the AA Board of Directors approving a project to put screens back in. They could have saved a lot on this by putting the screens in with the Oasis project. Now that there is pushback on the revenue side, they are stuck and in no position to spend money on putting screens back in. This is proof that going the cheapest route is not always the most profitable one.
 
RvA
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:44 pm

Can’t see it coming back. Personally I’ve no interest in IFE. I’ll bring my own entertainment. Internationally in the premium cabins however with big screens I do like it, but not essential for me.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:00 pm

AA just pulled them out of the 738s. I haven't seen a 738 in over 2 months with IFE screens and I'm on a 738 every week. Since it doesn't have a direct and measurable link to drive revenue I don't see it. And since AA is filling up planes with the BE crowd and not the business traveler why would they care at this point in time.
 
USAirALB
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:34 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
AA just pulled them out of the 738s. I haven't seen a 738 in over 2 months with IFE screens and I'm on a 738 every week. Since it doesn't have a direct and measurable link to drive revenue I don't see it. And since AA is filling up planes with the BE crowd and not the business traveler why would they care at this point in time.

I don't know how accurate this is and I don't know your flying history, but I've noticed that Oasis 738s tend to frequent MIA/CLT routes the most, while ORD/DFW/LAX routes seem to be more likely to get the enhanced 738s with PTVs. All of the 738 PTV flights I have been on have been ex DFW, with the exception of IAD-LAX which IIRC was one of the routes that was "guaranteed" to have seatback IFE, along with BOS-LAX (both routes IIRC also have/had upgraded bedding in F). I think that might have gone away though.

I believe there are around 80 or so 738s still flying with PTVs.

I think only one or two of the L-AA A321s have had their PTVs ripped out so far.
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ScottB
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:09 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
Here’s the fundamental problem with seatback IFE: my kids love it. I don’t care. So it’s a differentiator for leisure passengers but not those of us who pay the bills.


Well, for the passengers paying the bills, seatback IFE isn't the differentiator on its own. But it does contribute to the holistic customer experience, and even road warrior business traveler types enjoy watching some ESPN or HGTV after a couple of hours wrangling emails or working in PowerPoint. I hope people realize that "modest upgauge from the E175" wasn't the only reason why the A220 started appearing on LGA-DFW and LGA-IAH first.

rising wrote:
I never understood how AA taking out PTVs on domestic aircraft makes some think they're turning into the White Star Line, while Southwest does not even offer in-seat power, let alone PTVs. Yet Southwest is for many a customer favorite over AA even without those things.


As others have pointed out, other aspects of the Southwest travel experience appeal to customers -- like their continued refusal to charge change fees or baggage fees (for the first two bags) and a more consistent customer service experience. But in-seat power and entertainment are also less important in a network like Southwest's, where most flights are relatively short. You're not going to be able to watch a full movie on a one-hour hop between BUR and OAK, and your phone/tablet typically won't run out of juice that quickly either.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:42 pm

ScottB wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Here’s the fundamental problem with seatback IFE: my kids love it. I don’t care. So it’s a differentiator for leisure passengers but not those of us who pay the bills.


Well, for the passengers paying the bills, seatback IFE isn't the differentiator on its own. But it does contribute to the holistic customer experience, and even road warrior business traveler types enjoy watching some ESPN or HGTV after a couple of hours wrangling emails or working in PowerPoint. I hope people realize that "modest upgauge from the E175" wasn't the only reason why the A220 started appearing on LGA-DFW and LGA-IAH first.


Sure - if everything else is equal I might prefer an aircraft with PTVs, and I usually turn them on when they are availalbe (if nothing else for the moving map). But ultimately, I'm not going to fly BNA-ATL-DFW to get a couple of legs on PTV-equipped aircraft when AA can get me there on a nonstop, nor would I wait around the airport a couple of hours to get a PTV-equipped aircraft.
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CarlosSi
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:13 pm

I don’t m ow if it’s just me, but I feel like often my personal device gets fried using WiFi or streaming like that.
 
cpd
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:34 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Seatback IFE is nothing but a MPGI. I’ll pass.
MPGI - massive public germ incubator.

Eeeek


And is the entire plane any less of a germ incubator? Are you going to pass on that too?

Anything you touch on the plane could be like that.

I prefer the seat back IFE provided it is decently done. I like moving map displays, information about the flight, my connections before I arrive. Maybe some movies as long as there is a good selection. Perhaps some games. And a must is a charging socket and a USB port.

If they do something like this, it should be standardised across the entire fleet of planes, even international.
 
ScottB
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:48 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
But ultimately, I'm not going to fly BNA-ATL-DFW to get a couple of legs on PTV-equipped aircraft when AA can get me there on a nonstop, nor would I wait around the airport a couple of hours to get a PTV-equipped aircraft.


Oh I don't think Delta having PTVs vs AA not has a meaningful impact in captive hub markets -- business travelers are going to go with schedules and non-stop flights, as well as frequent flyer lock-in. But in more competitive markets like NYC or LAX, the hard and soft product will matter more. Similarly, in small and medium-size markets where no legacy carrier has an overwhelming advantage -- I'm thinking places like GSO, CMH, RIC, PIT -- if you're going to have to connect somewhere, you might as well go with the better product.

BNA is a bit different in that the dominant carrier is WN and they get most business travelers from BNA in spite of the a.net conventional wisdom about business travelers hating WN. I'd fly WN any day over an AA Oasis 738.
 
DDR
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:56 pm

Would it be possible to sell enough advertising to pay for the new seats? Make everyone watch 10 to 15 minutes of commercials before “control” to change channels, etc. is released?
 
alasizon
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:04 pm

DDR wrote:
Would it be possible to sell enough advertising to pay for the new seats? Make everyone watch 10 to 15 minutes of commercials before “control” to change channels, etc. is released?


Only if you really wanted to convert to the full ULCC model which would probably lose AA even more money.
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OB1504
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:15 pm

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
Here’s the fundamental problem with seatback IFE: my kids love it. I don’t care. So it’s a differentiator for leisure passengers but not those of us who pay the bills.


Most people care about PTVs. Everyone I know not on a.net says their plane was "old" or "crappy" and it's just because it didn't have a PTV. Every flight I'm on, majority of people are using them always.

I think AA will revert this, but after covid unless they just decide to pivot to be a true ULCC. Oasis config was a terrible idea and went too far. It has a reputation so large its hurt AAs at this point.


I was on a new 737 MAX last year and overhead passengers commenting about how they got stuck with an old plane because the flight attendants were doing a manual safety demo and the seats were "obviously" ancient because of how uncomfortable they were.

rising wrote:
The nice thing about Oasis is it will bring in-seat power. PTVs are still on long-haul aircraft. They also have a pretty good library and live tv. Not sure this a major disadvantage.

I never understood how AA taking out PTVs on domestic aircraft makes some think they're turning into the White Star Line, while Southwest does not even offer in-seat power, let alone PTVs. Yet Southwest is for many a customer favorite over AA even without those things.

It will be nice when these cabins get standardized.


Because Southwest at least offers a better airline. If AA is going to insist on being what they are now, the least they can do is put the PTVs in to soften the blow.

smflyer wrote:
Why not just hand out iPads in first class and main cabin extra? and then charge $10 to regular economy, add in free wifi with the rental and you got yourself a big money maker. No more under seat heavy electronics or seat back tv that get outdated in a couple years, just buy new ipads.


That's what AA did when they were too cheap to put AVOD in their refurbished 767 business class.

The issue customers had is that the crews often collected the tablets far too early, sometimes with over an hour of flying time remaining.

USAirALB wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
AA just pulled them out of the 738s. I haven't seen a 738 in over 2 months with IFE screens and I'm on a 738 every week. Since it doesn't have a direct and measurable link to drive revenue I don't see it. And since AA is filling up planes with the BE crowd and not the business traveler why would they care at this point in time.

I don't know how accurate this is and I don't know your flying history, but I've noticed that Oasis 738s tend to frequent MIA/CLT routes the most, while ORD/DFW/LAX routes seem to be more likely to get the enhanced 738s with PTVs. All of the 738 PTV flights I have been on have been ex DFW, with the exception of IAD-LAX which IIRC was one of the routes that was "guaranteed" to have seatback IFE, along with BOS-LAX (both routes IIRC also have/had upgraded bedding in F). I think that might have gone away though.

I believe there are around 80 or so 738s still flying with PTVs.

I think only one or two of the L-AA A321s have had their PTVs ripped out so far.


That's in part because MIA was where a lot of the 737 MAX flying was going to be out of. When the MAX was grounded the Oasis 737s started being concentrated there since they had identical capacities.

DDR wrote:
Would it be possible to sell enough advertising to pay for the new seats? Make everyone watch 10 to 15 minutes of commercials before “control” to change channels, etc. is released?


Dear god no. It was bad enough when CO had those DirecTV ads playing. 10-15 minutes of commercials on top of the 10 minute credit card speech some FAs like giving? I'll just fly Spirit if I want that experience.
Last edited by OB1504 on Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
N649DL
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:16 pm

AA had some bomb-ass AVOD systems on the 738 and A321 domestically. Not sure if they removed all of them in Y, but the interface was really impressive.

I also enjoyed the looped audio on the 738, especially the '80s station on the flip down LCD's on the 738. Not sure if that system exists these days either, but it was always fun to listen to music on takeoff. The overlay of cabin announcements on the LCD's was also convenient as well.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:43 pm

ScottB wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
But ultimately, I'm not going to fly BNA-ATL-DFW to get a couple of legs on PTV-equipped aircraft when AA can get me there on a nonstop, nor would I wait around the airport a couple of hours to get a PTV-equipped aircraft.


Oh I don't think Delta having PTVs vs AA not has a meaningful impact in captive hub markets -- business travelers are going to go with schedules and non-stop flights, as well as frequent flyer lock-in. But in more competitive markets like NYC or LAX, the hard and soft product will matter more. Similarly, in small and medium-size markets where no legacy carrier has an overwhelming advantage -- I'm thinking places like GSO, CMH, RIC, PIT -- if you're going to have to connect somewhere, you might as well go with the better product.

BNA is a bit different in that the dominant carrier is WN and they get most business travelers from BNA in spite of the a.net conventional wisdom about business travelers hating WN. I'd fly WN any day over an AA Oasis 738.


I don’t know. I find that schedule is usually enough of a differentiator that I don’t get to product (or even whose miles I prefer). The great majority of my travel is to cities where I either have a nonstop option (Chicago, New York, L.A.) or where the options are thin enough that network matters (GEG, ROA). There are cities in the middle - PDX is a great example - but they comprise only a small percentage of my travel. Some of that is due to WN, but much of it isn’t.
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USAirALB
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:32 pm

N649DL wrote:
AA had some bomb-ass AVOD systems on the 738 and A321 domestically. Not sure if they removed all of them in Y, but the interface was really impressive.

I also enjoyed the looped audio on the 738, especially the '80s station on the flip down LCD's on the 738. Not sure if that system exists these days either, but it was always fun to listen to music on takeoff. The overlay of cabin announcements on the LCD's was also convenient as well.

Around 80 of the 738s still have seatback video in all classes, and all but 2 or 3 of the L-AA A321s still have seatback video as well.

A good number of the 738s still have the drop down monitors and overhead IFE system as well. I think the non-Oasis and non-PTV AA 738s are the only aircraft on a US carrier that still feature old-fashioned overhead IFE.
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N649DL
Posts: 922
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Re: AA reconsidering seatback video screens

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:58 pm

USAirALB wrote:
N649DL wrote:
AA had some bomb-ass AVOD systems on the 738 and A321 domestically. Not sure if they removed all of them in Y, but the interface was really impressive.

I also enjoyed the looped audio on the 738, especially the '80s station on the flip down LCD's on the 738. Not sure if that system exists these days either, but it was always fun to listen to music on takeoff. The overlay of cabin announcements on the LCD's was also convenient as well.

Around 80 of the 738s still have seatback video in all classes, and all but 2 or 3 of the L-AA A321s still have seatback video as well.

A good number of the 738s still have the drop down monitors and overhead IFE system as well. I think the non-Oasis and non-PTV AA 738s are the only aircraft on a US carrier that still feature old-fashioned overhead IFE.


Oh, OK. Thanks for this then. I thought AA were removing AVOD hardcore right now. I haven't flown AA since like 2018. I just remember DL's overhead LCD screens were fading fast before they installed AVOD on some of the 738s and whatnot back in like 2016. AA always kept they in great shape for the cabin and credit card announcements. I know, I'm old school, but for AA to keep overhead screens around: They got creative with programming them (even flipping them down just to announce that the seat belt sign was turned on and arriving at destination) and flipping them up and down frequently during the flight for just the announcements. Makes less work for the F/A's too.

If they want to keep the AVOD system, better late than never. They can start by adding them to the ex-US A321 and A319 for starters (especially now that the 757s and 763s are retired.)

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