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SXDFC
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Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:38 pm

Does anyone happen to know what the future fleet of Ameriflight might consist of? With the Cessna 408s under going test flights, could this aircraft be a great replacement for the Metros and the 99s?
 
MO11
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:54 pm

SXDFC wrote:
Does anyone happen to know what the future fleet of Ameriflight might consist of? With the Cessna 408s under going test flights, could this aircraft be a great replacement for the Metros and the 99s?


Ameriflght has never purchased a new airplane. It's tough to low bid a contract with big payments. Now if UPS or DHL were to shell out the up front capital for new airplanes and contract out the operation, then maybe so.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:57 pm

Saab 340 would be a good replacement for the metro.
 
Pontius
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:11 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Saab 340 would be a good replacement for the metro.


Way bigger, requiring twice the pilots. And they already have the Emb-120 in that class.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:08 pm

Cargo PC-12's could replace the metro.
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bigb
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:18 pm

Ameriflight and new planes lol. That’s funny...
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:29 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Cargo PC-12's could replace the metro.


They're still converting B1900s so there's already an in-house solution to the Metro issue.

They're probably going to have more issues with Beech 99 and fatigue issues, and they tend to write off an aircraft a year but with current utilization their turbine fleet seems adequate if they can still convert more 1900Ds.
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bobdarvey
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:51 pm

Pontius wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Saab 340 would be a good replacement for the metro.


Way bigger, requiring twice the pilots. And they already have the Emb-120 in that class.


Only one pilot for the Metro !?
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:54 pm

bobdarvey wrote:
Pontius wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Saab 340 would be a good replacement for the metro.


Way bigger, requiring twice the pilots. And they already have the Emb-120 in that class.


Only one pilot for the Metro !?

That’s real flying alright. Those guys can hand fly an approach to mins while telling you that you ain’t sh%t and man I’ll believe them. Give me a single pilot cargo guy any day!
 
fokkerf28
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:55 pm

Yes metro's are single pilot. Ameriflight flies B1900c's no D models.
 
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bobdarvey
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 6:57 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
bobdarvey wrote:
Pontius wrote:

Way bigger, requiring twice the pilots. And they already have the Emb-120 in that class.


Only one pilot for the Metro !?

That’s real flying alright. Those guys can hand fly an approach to mins while telling you that you ain’t sh%t and man I’ll believe them. Give me a single pilot cargo guy any day!


Ok, fine. And what’s the FAA thinking ´bout that ?
 
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bobdarvey
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:01 pm

fokkerf28 wrote:
Yes metro's are single pilot. Ameriflight flies B1900c's no D models.


Is « « Metro » the new name for the Beech 1900 ?
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 pm

bobdarvey wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
bobdarvey wrote:

Only one pilot for the Metro !?

That’s real flying alright. Those guys can hand fly an approach to mins while telling you that you ain’t sh%t and man I’ll believe them. Give me a single pilot cargo guy any day!


Ok, fine. And what’s the FAA thinking ´bout that ?

It’s part 135 cargo. Allowable for single pilot operations in aircraft not requiring two pilots.
Last edited by TonyClifton on Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
sprxUSA
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:08 pm

bobdarvey wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
bobdarvey wrote:

Only one pilot for the Metro !?

That’s real flying alright. Those guys can hand fly an approach to mins while telling you that you ain’t sh%t and man I’ll believe them. Give me a single pilot cargo guy any day!


Ok, fine. And what’s the FAA thinking ´bout that ?


Well, the fact that it is being done should give you your answer. And is it really any more difficult than single pilot King Airs, etc??
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DiamondFlyer
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:18 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Saab 340 would be a good replacement for the metro.

Too big, E120 already operates on a waiver for cargo capacity, IIRC. 135 is limited to 7500lbs.
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32andBelow
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:07 pm

I’m surprised the second pilot isn’t paid for by Insurance savings. I was told it was a wash when 135 Bush caravans added a second pilot.

I’d just keep the metros then if the 340 is too big.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:52 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I’m surprised the second pilot isn’t paid for by Insurance savings. I was told it was a wash when 135 Bush caravans added a second pilot.

I’d just keep the metros then if the 340 is too big.


Well, I’d imagine that they carry a significant portion of their insurance as self-insurance, based on how things were when I worked there
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MO11
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:59 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I’m surprised the second pilot isn’t paid for by Insurance savings. I was told it was a wash when 135 Bush caravans added a second pilot.

I’d just keep the metros then if the 340 is too big.


The fact that no passengers in the back can sue if they are injured lowers your premium.
 
GVZZZ
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:33 pm

The Ce208 Caravan might be an option when they get cheap enough second hand to replace the 99s. However there's the likes of Alpine, Bemidji and Freight Runners in this market too. All have pretty low utilisation so it maybe that a replacement for the hundred or so 99s in this market is not required for some years.

Alpine have now got 1900D freighters up and running, perhaps an option if Ameriflight wanted volume on an existing fleet type. However I don't think the supply of 1900C or D is great, especially as Alpine picked up the Great Lakes fleet of Ds.

The last few years Ameriflight have been slowly adding Brasilias - maybe one a year.

I think there's two questions which might influence the future fleet...

1) Is their market going towards parcels where their aircraft volume out rather than weight out, therefore greater volume is required and say 1900C end up on current 99 routes, 1900D or E120 on current C routes, etc. And if they need something bigger there's a huge feed stock of CRJs.....
2) the cost of finance. Borrowing money is cheap at the moment, Cape Air is a good comparison, with a motley pile of second/third/fourth hand Cessna 402s being replaced by the brand new, and seemingly purpose built, Tecnam P2012. If the finance was cheap enough, and the customer wanted it, it would be awesome to see some brand new Ameriflight 408s!
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:51 pm

Spacepope wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Cargo PC-12's could replace the metro.


They're still converting B1900s so there's already an in-house solution to the Metro issue.

They're probably going to have more issues with Beech 99 and fatigue issues, and they tend to write off an aircraft a year but with current utilization their turbine fleet seems adequate if they can still convert more 1900Ds.


Where is Ameriflight getting 1900s? Are they getting any from Air Georgian with those ex-Air Canada birds?
 
GVZZZ
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:59 pm

I think it's about seven years since they got a 1900 (C), and they were already freighters from Falcon Cargo of the UAE. N346/7AF.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:23 pm

GVZZZ wrote:
I think it's about seven years since they got a 1900 (C), and they were already freighters from Falcon Cargo of the UAE. N346/7AF.


Those were the best 1900's in the fleet (338AF/346AF/347AF).
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DiamondFlyer
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Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Thu Jul 02, 2020 11:25 pm

GVZZZ wrote:
The Ce208 Caravan might be an option when they get cheap enough second hand to replace the 99s. However there's the likes of Alpine, Bemidji and Freight Runners in this market too. All have pretty low utilisation so it maybe that a replacement for the hundred or so 99s in this market is not required for some years.

Alpine have now got 1900D freighters up and running, perhaps an option if Ameriflight wanted volume on an existing fleet type. However I don't think the supply of 1900C or D is great, especially as Alpine picked up the Great Lakes fleet of Ds.

The last few years Ameriflight have been slowly adding Brasilias - maybe one a year.

I think there's two questions which might influence the future fleet...

1) Is their market going towards parcels where their aircraft volume out rather than weight out, therefore greater volume is required and say 1900C end up on current 99 routes, 1900D or E120 on current C routes, etc. And if they need something bigger there's a huge feed stock of CRJs.....
2) the cost of finance. Borrowing money is cheap at the moment, Cape Air is a good comparison, with a motley pile of second/third/fourth hand Cessna 402s being replaced by the brand new, and seemingly purpose built, Tecnam P2012. If the finance was cheap enough, and the customer wanted it, it would be awesome to see some brand new Ameriflight 408s!


Volume. They always seemed to bulk out well, well before coming close to max weight. CRJ's would drastically incrase the cost of the operation, moving from 135 to 121... Plus I'm not sure that scope at UPS would even allow for it, in a significant number.

That said, I'm not sure fatigue is going to be an issue on the 99. They're non-pressurized, you can get/build basically the whole airframe if you wanted to.
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:54 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Saab 340 would be a good replacement for the metro.

Too big, E120 already operates on a waiver for cargo capacity, IIRC. 135 is limited to 7500lbs.


IBC Airways is a Part 135 freight operator out of South Florida and they operate S340's. They used to operate Metroliners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBC_Airways
 
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Spacepope
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Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 3:48 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
The Ce208 Caravan might be an option when they get cheap enough second hand to replace the 99s. However there's the likes of Alpine, Bemidji and Freight Runners in this market too. All have pretty low utilisation so it maybe that a replacement for the hundred or so 99s in this market is not required for some years.

Alpine have now got 1900D freighters up and running, perhaps an option if Ameriflight wanted volume on an existing fleet type. However I don't think the supply of 1900C or D is great, especially as Alpine picked up the Great Lakes fleet of Ds.

The last few years Ameriflight have been slowly adding Brasilias - maybe one a year.

I think there's two questions which might influence the future fleet...

1) Is their market going towards parcels where their aircraft volume out rather than weight out, therefore greater volume is required and say 1900C end up on current 99 routes, 1900D or E120 on current C routes, etc. And if they need something bigger there's a huge feed stock of CRJs.....
2) the cost of finance. Borrowing money is cheap at the moment, Cape Air is a good comparison, with a motley pile of second/third/fourth hand Cessna 402s being replaced by the brand new, and seemingly purpose built, Tecnam P2012. If the finance was cheap enough, and the customer wanted it, it would be awesome to see some brand new Ameriflight 408s!


Volume. They always seemed to bulk out well, well before coming close to max weight. CRJ's would drastically incrase the cost of the operation, moving from 135 to 121... Plus I'm not sure that scope at UPS would even allow for it, in a significant number.

That said, I'm not sure fatigue is going to be an issue on the 99. They're non-pressurized, you can get/build basically the whole airframe if you wanted to.

Some of those old Beeches have wing spar limitations, so it doesn’t matter if it’s pressurized or not, it’s cumulative hours and cycles.

The cry would be nice for a few routes, but it’s basically a 1 for 1 equivalent for a Convair, a bit big in most cases.
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DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3353
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: Ameriflight Future Fleet?

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:23 am

Spacepope wrote:
DiamondFlyer wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
The Ce208 Caravan might be an option when they get cheap enough second hand to replace the 99s. However there's the likes of Alpine, Bemidji and Freight Runners in this market too. All have pretty low utilisation so it maybe that a replacement for the hundred or so 99s in this market is not required for some years.

Alpine have now got 1900D freighters up and running, perhaps an option if Ameriflight wanted volume on an existing fleet type. However I don't think the supply of 1900C or D is great, especially as Alpine picked up the Great Lakes fleet of Ds.

The last few years Ameriflight have been slowly adding Brasilias - maybe one a year.

I think there's two questions which might influence the future fleet...

1) Is their market going towards parcels where their aircraft volume out rather than weight out, therefore greater volume is required and say 1900C end up on current 99 routes, 1900D or E120 on current C routes, etc. And if they need something bigger there's a huge feed stock of CRJs.....
2) the cost of finance. Borrowing money is cheap at the moment, Cape Air is a good comparison, with a motley pile of second/third/fourth hand Cessna 402s being replaced by the brand new, and seemingly purpose built, Tecnam P2012. If the finance was cheap enough, and the customer wanted it, it would be awesome to see some brand new Ameriflight 408s!


Volume. They always seemed to bulk out well, well before coming close to max weight. CRJ's would drastically incrase the cost of the operation, moving from 135 to 121... Plus I'm not sure that scope at UPS would even allow for it, in a significant number.

That said, I'm not sure fatigue is going to be an issue on the 99. They're non-pressurized, you can get/build basically the whole airframe if you wanted to.

Some of those old Beeches have wing spar limitations, so it doesn’t matter if it’s pressurized or not, it’s cumulative hours and cycles.

The cry would be nice for a few routes, but it’s basically a 1 for 1 equivalent for a Convair, a bit big in most cases.


IIRC Ameriflight was building new spars for the 99s already.
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