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LAXintl
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Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:12 pm

AA will be colocating with its JV partner British Airways in Terminal 5 effective July 7th. AA check-in desks will be located in Zone C

From internal release:

American is rebuilding its international network by focusing on strategic hubs like Heathrow to enable future growth in this new environment. American will initially be operating four daily flights from LHR Terminal 5 to Dallas/Fort Worth, New York’s John F. Kennedy, Chicago O’Hare and Miami.

“Moving American’s operations to Terminal 5 for the first time will greatly improve the customer travel experience, enabling faster and easier connections by working closely alongside our valued joint business partners,” said Rhett Workman, managing director Europe & Asia-Pacific. “While our surroundings may have changed, the safety of our customers and team members remains of paramount importance and we are working tirelessly with our partners and the airport to ensure we continue to offer a safe travel experience.”



News story:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/trav ... uly-7.html

=

Long-held ambitions by AA to colocate coming to reality. Good for passengers.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
kimimm19
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:18 pm

Yet, BA can't even operate all of its flights out of T5...
 
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N717TW
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:21 pm

Totally makes sense and given the lack of traffic plus how Terminals 3 and 4 are currently closed, it's easy to do. Once traffic rebounds next year, however, will they be able to operate everything from Terminal 5?

What happens to the Admiral's Club?
 
Kbud
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:53 pm

N717TW wrote:
Totally makes sense and given the lack of traffic plus how Terminals 3 and 4 are currently closed, it's easy to do. Once traffic rebounds next year, however, will they be able to operate everything from Terminal 5?

What happens to the Admiral's Club?

The article says that American customers will use the BA lounges. The American Furst Lounge at LHR was pretty small, and really nothing special. I haven’t been in the Concorde Room, but it has to be somewhat better I’d think.

The article also says 4 daily flights. I wonder if it meant to say 4 cities. I know American has published that they’ll be returning to multiple daily frequencies from at least JFK, ORD and DFW.
 
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janders
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 4:58 pm

Makes sense.

I recall last year, Vasu Raja mentioned that something like 50 percent of AA LHR traffic flowed beyond on BA so doing it under a single roof it a big customer benefit once things start returning to some normalcy.

kimimm19 wrote:
Yet, BA can't even operate all of its flights out of T5...


BA like all airlines will be smaller for some period. There should be ample capacity to handle everything at T-5 along with AA.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
fromheretohere9
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:28 pm

For current operations as pointed out both will easily be able to operate from T5 with no real issues. When both airlines start to pick up and begin a more normal service later this year into next. It may get a bit congested at times.
But this will be great for a customer point of view for connections.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:31 pm

N717TW wrote:
Totally makes sense and given the lack of traffic plus how Terminals 3 and 4 are currently closed, it's easy to do. Once traffic rebounds next year, however, will they be able to operate everything from Terminal 5?

What happens to the Admiral's Club?


I thought the same regarding the Admiral's Club at LHR, which is spacious, but not amazing at all and was not upgraded to the current Admiral's and Flagship lounge look and feel and service levels.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:41 pm

They are TEMPORARILY MOVING as today only T2 and T5 are open. As traffic comes back, T3 and T4 will reopen but not before next summer. Other Oneworld partners are also colocating to T5 to free up space in T2. LHR will be a 2 terminal operation for a few more months.
Last edited by skipness1E on Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:41 pm

Oh dear, T5 transfers at peak time is already a zoo of humanity...T5A transfer area is over capacity!! And the business class lounge in BA is full full full!!! Sometimes you can't find a seat in the North Club lounge in the mid morning. (I know I am talking about NORMAL times.)

The only space left for AA to eventually build a lounge would be T5B or T5C. Maybe AA can take over T5C, by that I mean all AA operation to be put in T5C while IB and BA use when there is no AA operations.

I have no doubt post Covid-19, AA and BA can operate in T5 without any issue. But as soon as the operation is going back towards normal again, BA will need to shuffle a lot of flight around to T3 and more bus gates for European departure to come!!!
 
AA747123
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:50 pm

Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?
 
Opus99
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:54 pm

https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/tog ... =terminal5

This page on american airlines seems like a very permanent move to me.

They're really selling T5 to their customers, listing the awards, listing the amenities, all this, just to go back to T3 in the winter? come on. Plus its cheaper for them becaue they wont need a ground staff at LHR nor a lounge etc

Also when you open their home page its the first thing you see

if you think about it, AA will reduce their transatlantic business to LHR..period. BA will pick up most when demand comes back. This also confirms that the 747's probably aren't coming back...380? who knows. But i can see this move being very permanent, american probably won't bring as many of their own metal as they used to for a VERY long time, if at all.

I know AA & BA have been trying to do this for a very long time. it makes sense because they have a lot of connections into europe. any other oneworld carrier doesn't make sense simply because there's no connection business and most are far east/ middle east airlines.

my prediction is, this is permanent. currently its scheduled up until W2020 but of course remains subject to change.
 
AA747123
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:12 pm

Opus99 wrote:
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/together-at-terminal-5.jsp?locale=en_GB&anchorLocation=DirectURL&title=terminal5

This page on american airlines seems like a very permanent move to me.

They're really selling T5 to their customers, listing the awards, listing the amenities, all this, just to go back to T3 in the winter? come on. Plus its cheaper for them becaue they wont need a ground staff at LHR nor a lounge etc

Also when you open their home page its the first thing you see

if you think about it, AA will reduce their transatlantic business to LHR..period. BA will pick up most when demand comes back. This also confirms that the 747's probably aren't coming back...380? who knows. But i can see this move being very permanent, american probably won't bring as many of their own metal as they used to for a VERY long time, if at all.

I know AA & BA have been trying to do this for a very long time. it makes sense because they have a lot of connections into europe. any other oneworld carrier doesn't make sense simply because there's no connection business and most are far east/ middle east airlines.


my prediction is, this is permanent. currently its scheduled up until W2020 but of course remains subject to change.


Actually AA is planning on a full schedule at LHR in summer 2021. I love T5 at LHR, by far my favorite! So this is an exciting move. Congrats to AA/BA!
 
airhansa
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:26 pm

I suspect that a number of foreign airlines will integrate significantly to the point that they're virtually the same airline as much as government authorities allow them to.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:28 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?

It’s temporary, it really, really is. No one knows when T3 will reopen but given the Virgin and Emirates premiun facilities are there and Qatar and Etihad in T4, HAL will be under immense pressure to open everything up soon or BA/AA will be seen as being given a competitive advantage. LGW short haul is being slashed and is also moving to LHR T5 so the idea that the full American operation will operate in T5 next summer is unlikely.
It’s for the summer, hence the opener, “This summer”.
 
chonetsao
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:38 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?


From the rumour circling around since last year (2019), AA moves to T5 was long planned. I'd say this is permanent.
 
Antarius
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:47 pm

chonetsao wrote:
Oh dear, T5 transfers at peak time is already a zoo of humanity...T5A transfer area is over capacity!! And the business class lounge in BA is full full full!!! Sometimes you can't find a seat in the North Club lounge in the mid morning. (I know I am talking about NORMAL times.)


T3 to T5 or vice versa is even worse.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:54 pm

chonetsao wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?


From the rumour circling around since last year (2019), AA moves to T5 was long planned. I'd say this is permanent.


I suspect as well. I think that is why the LHR Flagship Lounge project got canned many months ago. You will probably see more of BA's less valuable long-haul routes shift to T3 when everything is back to full swing.
 
Opus99
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:57 pm

skipness1E wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?

It’s temporary, it really, really is. No one knows when T3 will reopen but given the Virgin and Emirates premiun facilities are there and Qatar and Etihad in T4, HAL will be under immense pressure to open everything up soon or BA/AA will be seen as being given a competitive advantage. LGW short haul is being slashed and is also moving to LHR T5 so the idea that the full American operation will operate in T5 next summer is unlikely.
It’s for the summer, hence the opener, “This summer”.

"This summer" could also indicate the timing of the move taking place. AA doing all this media fanfare for a temporary move is a bit much, there was no fanfare when they moved to T2. After all this, what will they tell their customers when they move back? Obviously officially you'll hear its temporary but everything else says it isnt. also take for example the 74s not returning even if short-haul operations are consolidated to gatwick, most if not all will operate out of T5 A, everyone is on reduced frequencies for a long time, whatever america has "planned" for 2021 even they themselves know that doesn't mean anything especially on transatlantic with the US coronavirus cases as high as they are. EVEN if american is on a full schedule and the 747s aren't coming back and the 380 is parked for a while, american would have to bring about 25 frames a day to match the space created from the 747s
Last edited by Opus99 on Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
deltairlines
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:59 pm

Shame from a premium traveler perspective - I'd take the Cathay Pacific lounge over anything British Airways offers.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:03 pm

chonetsao wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?


From the rumour circling around since last year (2019), AA moves to T5 was long planned. I'd say this is permanent.

That was before BA had to consolidate most of LGW short haul to LHR. Things have changed.
AA 100% want to have their whole operation in T5. Except that would mean BA being constrained for space as things pick up again and decamping out of their own terminal to T3 again.
What’s good for AA at LHR doesn’t align exactly with what’s best for BA especially given recent changes.
Last edited by skipness1E on Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:05 pm

airhansa wrote:
I suspect that a number of foreign airlines will integrate significantly to the point that they're virtually the same airline as much as government authorities allow them to.


What does that mean, please? Prospective examples?
 
Opus99
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:07 pm

skipness1E wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?


From the rumour circling around since last year (2019), AA moves to T5 was long planned. I'd say this is permanent.

That was before BA had to consolidate most of LGW short haul to LHR. Things have changed.

there aren't actually that many flights moving to LGW, yes all of LGW short haul with a lot of destinations still cancelled. lest we forget the 20+ A320series frames that are coming off lease that will be returned to lessors.

You're thinking about destinations, think about frames. it's frames that directly use space not destinations. if you think how much they're chopping off, there's space. WW said BA is not getting back to its 2019 size till AT LEAST 2024
Last edited by Opus99 on Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
airhansa
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:10 pm

@MIflyer2 I mean that a number of airlines want to consolidate and ideally internationally, but authorities won't allow them, so they'll use this period to try to push into unusually close relationships.

deltairlines wrote:
Shame from a premium traveler perspective - I'd take the Cathay Pacific lounge over anything British Airways offers.


BA doesn't really have much of a product to offer beyond the location.
 
avek00
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:24 pm

chonetsao wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?


From the rumour circling around since last year (2019), AA moves to T5 was long planned. I'd say this is permanent.


Of course it will be a permanent move. Once international traffic recovery begins in earnest, BA will re-analyze the merits of keeping any given flight/destination in T3 vs. T5 for commercial reasons, and rework terminal assignments accordingly. Pre-COVID, the AA/BA JBA suffered somewhat from the longer MCTs and greater transit hassles at LHR (compared to rival hubs at CDG, FRA, AMS, and MUC) due to the AA/BA terminal split.
Live life to the fullest.
 
FriscoHeavy
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:41 pm

skipness1E wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
Is this a temporary move for AA? Till T3 reopens? Or permanently moving to T5?

It’s temporary, it really, really is. No one knows when T3 will reopen but given the Virgin and Emirates premiun facilities are there and Qatar and Etihad in T4, HAL will be under immense pressure to open everything up soon or BA/AA will be seen as being given a competitive advantage. LGW short haul is being slashed and is also moving to LHR T5 so the idea that the full American operation will operate in T5 next summer is unlikely.
It’s for the summer, hence the opener, “This summer”.


The move is going to be permanent, bud.
Whatever
 
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mercure1
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:26 pm

I suspect move is final as AA has spoken about its desire to move to T5 since back in 2018.

If and when the time comes and BA outgrows T5 again, it can adjust its flights as needed back to T3 in coordination with airport authority. Having AA in T5 benefits BA as offering good connectivity to/from AA strengthens the BA Europe and beyond network and the Atlantic JV is a key element of its business plan.
mercure f-wtcc
 
deltairlines
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 8:57 pm

American had mentioned earlier in the week with their international network announcement that a big part of their strategy going forward was going to be funnel people into Heathrow and then onto British Airways flights. From that perspective, moving them into T5 makes sense.

That being said, as an O&D traveler, I'll take Terminal 3 over Terminal 5 every day of the week. I mentioned the lounges are better earlier, but also one stop less on the Tube (and more trains since all trains go to T2/3) as well as on Heathrow Express. However, if you're not using a lounge before departure, T5 is a much better experience.
 
Opus99
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:00 pm

deltairlines wrote:
American had mentioned earlier in the week with their international network announcement that a big part of their strategy going forward was going to be funnel people into Heathrow and then onto British Airways flights. From that perspective, moving them into T5 makes sense.

That being said, as an O&D traveler, I'll take Terminal 3 over Terminal 5 every day of the week. I mentioned the lounges are better earlier, but also one stop less on the Tube (and more trains since all trains go to T2/3) as well as on Heathrow Express. However, if you're not using a lounge before departure, T5 is a much better experience.

most lounges in t3 are far better than t5 lounges although refurb of these are imminent. i prefer t5 lounges to admirals lounge in t3 and americans offering in t3
 
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Jacob02
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:12 pm

Opus99 wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
American had mentioned earlier in the week with their international network announcement that a big part of their strategy going forward was going to be funnel people into Heathrow and then onto British Airways flights. From that perspective, moving them into T5 makes sense.

That being said, as an O&D traveler, I'll take Terminal 3 over Terminal 5 every day of the week. I mentioned the lounges are better earlier, but also one stop less on the Tube (and more trains since all trains go to T2/3) as well as on Heathrow Express. However, if you're not using a lounge before departure, T5 is a much better experience.

most lounges in t3 are far better than t5 lounges although refurb of these are imminent. i prefer t5 lounges to admirals lounge in t3 and americans offering in t3


I will miss using the Cathay and Qantas lounges at T3 for connections including flights to PRG and LAX. Any chance AA may bring an Admiral's Club Flagship to T5? In my mind, the biggest weakness of BA lounges in T5 is the really dismal shower experience - long waits, awfully small and broken shower cabins, and often very cold staff.
 
jfk777
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:15 pm

There is more to this, when AA is at a full schedule its 20 flights daily. How is that going to work at T5, is BA moving some of their lesser intercontinental flights to Terminal 3 making room for AA ? BA's 747 could sadly be history, BA still will have frequency in their main markets with 787, A350 and 777's. BA's planes could be shrinking in size but their number if flights is not. This is the first part of an important story.
 
Opus99
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:16 pm

Jacob02 wrote:
Opus99 wrote:
deltairlines wrote:
American had mentioned earlier in the week with their international network announcement that a big part of their strategy going forward was going to be funnel people into Heathrow and then onto British Airways flights. From that perspective, moving them into T5 makes sense.

That being said, as an O&D traveler, I'll take Terminal 3 over Terminal 5 every day of the week. I mentioned the lounges are better earlier, but also one stop less on the Tube (and more trains since all trains go to T2/3) as well as on Heathrow Express. However, if you're not using a lounge before departure, T5 is a much better experience.

most lounges in t3 are far better than t5 lounges although refurb of these are imminent. i prefer t5 lounges to admirals lounge in t3 and americans offering in t3


I will miss using the Cathay and Qantas lounges at T3 for connections including flights to PRG and LAX. Any chance AA may bring an Admiral's Club Flagship to T5? In my mind, the biggest weakness of BA lounges in T5 is the really dismal shower experience - long waits, awfully small and broken shower cabins, and often very cold staff.

I doubt T5 investing in a seperate lounge, they and BA will both invest in the galleries lounge franchise at heathrow and improve that together to the level of BA's and AA's newly refurbished lounges in the states
 
Antarius
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:33 pm

mercure1 wrote:
I suspect move is final as AA has spoken about its desire to move to T5 since back in 2018.

If and when the time comes and BA outgrows T5 again, it can adjust its flights as needed back to T3 in coordination with airport authority. Having AA in T5 benefits BA as offering good connectivity to/from AA strengthens the BA Europe and beyond network and the Atlantic JV is a key element of its business plan.


And to provide a recent example of a similar situation, see JFK. BA moving from T7 to T8 despite recently redoing their lounges etc.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
freakyrat
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:08 pm

Antarius wrote:
chonetsao wrote:
Oh dear, T5 transfers at peak time is already a zoo of humanity...T5A transfer area is over capacity!! And the business class lounge in BA is full full full!!! Sometimes you can't find a seat in the North Club lounge in the mid morning. (I know I am talking about NORMAL times.)


T3 to T5 or vice versa is even worse.


I agree I've done one getting off AA from DFW in the morning and catching a 10:30 AM departure on BA to Hamburg. A restroom run on arrival, the bus and then passport checks and then security. I made it and my flight started to board just about 15 minutes after getting thorugh security in T5.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:17 pm

airhansa wrote:
@MIflyer2 I mean that a number of airlines want to consolidate and ideally internationally, but authorities won't allow them, so they'll use this period to try to push into unusually close relationships.

deltairlines wrote:
Shame from a premium traveler perspective - I'd take the Cathay Pacific lounge over anything British Airways offers.


BA doesn't really have much of a product to offer beyond the location.


There are lots of frictions against those closer relationships you predict:

- national branding

- separate work groups

- competition regulations broadly, and limits to ant-trust immunized joint ventures specifically

- pilot work agreements that limit shares of flying given to partners

- national ownership and/or voting rights restrictions

It leaves a lot of carriers stuck with no more than code share relationships.
 
eurotrader85
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:52 pm

jfk777 wrote:
There is more to this, when AA is at a full schedule its 20 flights daily. How is that going to work at T5, is BA moving some of their lesser intercontinental flights to Terminal 3 making room for AA ? BA's 747 could sadly be history, BA still will have frequency in their main markets with 787, A350 and 777's. BA's planes could be shrinking in size but their number if flights is not. This is the first part of an important story.


I agree, this doesn't all make sense on a long-term basis (and we are saying that being the point that levels get back to a vague normality). As much as people can rave about the easier connections coming off AA metal, for BA their first priority is keeping as many of their own flights under the same T5 roof. Sure AA is their most important partner but they have to focus on number 1 first and bringing AA into T5 means they have to shift more of their own flights to T3. Does anyone know what the status of T5D as was is, and further to that the extension of the underground link train to link T5D pier and T3? Given the original plan many moons ago was to have US pre-clearance there, that would make a little more sense for a transfer across.
 
superjeff
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Fri Jul 03, 2020 11:07 pm

eurotrader85 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
There is more to this, when AA is at a full schedule its 20 flights daily. How is that going to work at T5, is BA moving some of their lesser intercontinental flights to Terminal 3 making room for AA ? BA's 747 could sadly be history, BA still will have frequency in their main markets with 787, A350 and 777's. BA's planes could be shrinking in size but their number if flights is not. This is the first part of an important story.


I agree, this doesn't all make sense on a long-term basis (and we are saying that being the point that levels get back to a vague normality). As much as people can rave about the easier connections coming off AA metal, for BA their first priority is keeping as many of their own flights under the same T5 roof. Sure AA is their most important partner but they have to focus on number 1 first and bringing AA into T5 means they have to shift more of their own flights to T3. Does anyone know what the status of T5D as was is, and further to that the extension of the underground link train to link T5D pier and T3? Given the original plan many moons ago was to have US pre-clearance there, that would make a little more sense for a transfer across.


The key word is TEMPORARY. LHR has temporarily closed T3 where AA was located (and where they'll probably return after Covid19). For the time being, this makes sense for both AA and BA because they operate an immunized JV and operate, transAtlantic, as essentially a separate airline they co-own. So, an AA passenger flying JFK-LHR(on AA)-BER (on BA) is essentially a passenger on the JV the entire trip. I've also made the LHR AA to BA connection a couple of times (RDU-LHR-TXL, JFK-LHR-TLV, and TLV-LHR-LAX) and it WAS a pain to take the bus between T3 and T5, but it did work. I also flew one time VIE-LHR-DFW BA to AA, but had to connect from T3 to T3, and it wasn't particularly nice either.
 
jfk777
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:07 am

With so many flights to the USA from all terminals at Heathrow, the idea of "Pre-Clearance" gets complicated very fast. Is it going to be Pre-Clearance for AA and BA but not Virgin, Delta and United. It all depends on which terminal an airline uses, Heathrow is not going to have several FIS stations.

Pre-Clearance is a great sounding idea, when an airport has one international terminal and one airline dominates that hub it makes sense. In Places like EZE & GRU it could work very nicely. Sydney, Melbourne, and Auckland could be good ones too. ICN, TPE and HKG could too.
 
Antarius
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:25 am

eurotrader85 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
There is more to this, when AA is at a full schedule its 20 flights daily. How is that going to work at T5, is BA moving some of their lesser intercontinental flights to Terminal 3 making room for AA ? BA's 747 could sadly be history, BA still will have frequency in their main markets with 787, A350 and 777's. BA's planes could be shrinking in size but their number if flights is not. This is the first part of an important story.


I agree, this doesn't all make sense on a long-term basis (and we are saying that being the point that levels get back to a vague normality). As much as people can rave about the easier connections coming off AA metal, for BA their first priority is keeping as many of their own flights under the same T5 roof. Sure AA is their most important partner but they have to focus on number 1 first and bringing AA into T5 means they have to shift more of their own flights to T3. Does anyone know what the status of T5D as was is, and further to that the extension of the underground link train to link T5D pier and T3? Given the original plan many moons ago was to have US pre-clearance there, that would make a little more sense for a transfer across.


Given that AA and BA have a JV, the assertion that BA's first priority is their own flights in T5 is false.

They can punt the O&D leisure flights to T3 easily.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
J343
Posts: 311
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:40 am

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:35 am

Well this is great news for AA and BA travellers. Transfers will be a lot easier. Just out of curiosity though, what are the chances of AY and JL moving into T5 to join AA and BA? BA-AY-IB-AA have a TATL JV and I think it would make more sense. Also, BA-IB-AY-JL have the Europe-Japan JV.
 
Vicenza
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:21 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:04 am

airhansa wrote:
@MIflyer2 I mean that a number of airlines want to consolidate and ideally internationally, but authorities won't allow them, so they'll use this period to try to push into unusually close relationships.


Who exactly are these airlines and authorities you are claiming?
 
Opus99
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:52 am

superjeff wrote:
eurotrader85 wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
There is more to this, when AA is at a full schedule its 20 flights daily. How is that going to work at T5, is BA moving some of their lesser intercontinental flights to Terminal 3 making room for AA ? BA's 747 could sadly be history, BA still will have frequency in their main markets with 787, A350 and 777's. BA's planes could be shrinking in size but their number if flights is not. This is the first part of an important story.


I agree, this doesn't all make sense on a long-term basis (and we are saying that being the point that levels get back to a vague normality). As much as people can rave about the easier connections coming off AA metal, for BA their first priority is keeping as many of their own flights under the same T5 roof. Sure AA is their most important partner but they have to focus on number 1 first and bringing AA into T5 means they have to shift more of their own flights to T3. Does anyone know what the status of T5D as was is, and further to that the extension of the underground link train to link T5D pier and T3? Given the original plan many moons ago was to have US pre-clearance there, that would make a little more sense for a transfer across.


The key word is TEMPORARY. LHR has temporarily closed T3 where AA was located (and where they'll probably return after Covid19). For the time being, this makes sense for both AA and BA because they operate an immunized JV and operate, transAtlantic, as essentially a separate airline they co-own. So, an AA passenger flying JFK-LHR(on AA)-BER (on BA) is essentially a passenger on the JV the entire trip. I've also made the LHR AA to BA connection a couple of times (RDU-LHR-TXL, JFK-LHR-TLV, and TLV-LHR-LAX) and it WAS a pain to take the bus between T3 and T5, but it did work. I also flew one time VIE-LHR-DFW BA to AA, but had to connect from T3 to T3, and it wasn't particularly nice either.

they’re not going back. AA spokeswoman confirmed its not temporary. What does the end of covid 19 mean? The truth is AA is going to reduce their metal on transatlantic. Even when demand comes back BA and AA will do everything to make it work. Covid gave them the opportunity to imitate this move which was the initial problem. When they’re at 2019 size whatever needs to move to Gatwick will move to Gatwick, whatever needs to move to T3 will move to T3 and much later down the line the gates built for the 380 will be refurbished from Code F down to Code E which would mean more gates. How can AA go back after covid? In what 4 years? They will have nothing left at T3. This is permanent. This week DL was talking about reducing their fleet count from 900 to 500! There is this idea that tomorrow airlines will go back to the size they
 
RvA
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:25 am

Why do people keep insisting it is temporary when this has been talked about being in the works for a very long time?
BA will not be at 100% capacity for a few years likely anyway so this is a great time to do it.
 
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vhtje
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Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:40 am

I read somewhere that the AA flights will all operate out of T5C, and that a oneworld-branded lounge will be built there. I understand there has always been provision for a lounge in T5CL but it was never built.

I can’t find the link, but I will keep searching and when I find it, I will post it.
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
TUGMASTER
Posts: 1186
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:56 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:13 am

Originally , the AA move was only for the JFK flights,... then Covid struck....
Move is currently planned to be temporary but can see them staying.
Also coming to BA land is QR/RJ/CX/CZ
Also temporary.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4786
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:16 am

RvA wrote:
Why do people keep insisting it is temporary when this has been talked about being in the works for a very long time?
BA will not be at 100% capacity for a few years likely anyway so this is a great time to do it.

Mainly because Heathrow have said they are moving temporarily. At the end of the day, HAL says who goes where into which terminal not AA. I get AA are pushing hard for this and claiming it’s 100% permanent but Air India also said there was no way they’d leave T4.
Only time will tell.
 
kimimm19
Posts: 421
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:34 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:14 pm

janders wrote:
Makes sense.

I recall last year, Vasu Raja mentioned that something like 50 percent of AA LHR traffic flowed beyond on BA so doing it under a single roof it a big customer benefit once things start returning to some normalcy.

kimimm19 wrote:
Yet, BA can't even operate all of its flights out of T5...


BA like all airlines will be smaller for some period. There should be ample capacity to handle everything at T-5 along with AA.


For how long though? There has already been quite a rebound. LHR is not like any other airport.
 
Opus99
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:36 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
janders wrote:
Makes sense.

I recall last year, Vasu Raja mentioned that something like 50 percent of AA LHR traffic flowed beyond on BA so doing it under a single roof it a big customer benefit once things start returning to some normalcy.

kimimm19 wrote:
Yet, BA can't even operate all of its flights out of T5...


BA like all airlines will be smaller for some period. There should be ample capacity to handle everything at T-5 along with AA.


For how long though? There has already been quite a rebound. LHR is not like any other airport.

Well according to BA for at least 4 years
 
Antarius
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:40 pm

skipness1E wrote:
RvA wrote:
Why do people keep insisting it is temporary when this has been talked about being in the works for a very long time?
BA will not be at 100% capacity for a few years likely anyway so this is a great time to do it.

Mainly because Heathrow have said they are moving temporarily. At the end of the day, HAL says who goes where into which terminal not AA. I get AA are pushing hard for this and claiming it’s 100% permanent but Air India also said there was no way they’d leave T4.
Only time will tell.


There are 2 things happening right now. One is from LHR due to the terminal closures. The other is from AA and BA.

What air India thinks is irrelevant to the second initiative.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4786
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:43 pm

Antarius wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
RvA wrote:
Why do people keep insisting it is temporary when this has been talked about being in the works for a very long time?
BA will not be at 100% capacity for a few years likely anyway so this is a great time to do it.

Mainly because Heathrow have said they are moving temporarily. At the end of the day, HAL says who goes where into which terminal not AA. I get AA are pushing hard for this and claiming it’s 100% permanent but Air India also said there was no way they’d leave T4.
Only time will tell.


There are 2 things happening right now. One is from LHR due to the terminal closures. The other is from AA and BA.

What air India thinks is irrelevant to the second initiative.

The point about Air India was they were adamant they were staying put in T4 as they had a bespoke lounge and HAL forced them to move. It’s not for airlines to decide which terminal they use, it’s up to HAL and with T3/T4 shut, HAL are moving Oneworld, all of it, to T5. This is of course not tenable in the medium term as LHR will bounce back faster than any other UK airport. Hence JAL, Finnair et al won’t be long term in T5. American WANT, nee EXPECT to stay in T5. All I am saying is that HAL are saying the move is temporary, BA have no solid view on how much slot sitting they will need to do and whether they need to go back to T3 at all. But with AA in T5, any right sizing of BA would then need the additional cost of splitting terminals again. Time will tell.
 
Opus99
Posts: 827
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Re: Official: AA moving to LHR T-5

Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:03 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Antarius wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Mainly because Heathrow have said they are moving temporarily. At the end of the day, HAL says who goes where into which terminal not AA. I get AA are pushing hard for this and claiming it’s 100% permanent but Air India also said there was no way they’d leave T4.
Only time will tell.


There are 2 things happening right now. One is from LHR due to the terminal closures. The other is from AA and BA.

What air India thinks is irrelevant to the second initiative.

The point about Air India was they were adamant they were staying put in T4 as they had a bespoke lounge and HAL forced them to move. It’s not for airlines to decide which terminal they use, it’s up to HAL and with T3/T4 shut, HAL are moving Oneworld, all of it, to T5. This is of course not tenable in the medium term as LHR will bounce back faster than any other UK airport. Hence JAL, Finnair et al won’t be long term in T5. American WANT, nee EXPECT to stay in T5. All I am saying is that HAL are saying the move is temporary, BA have no solid view on how much slot sitting they will need to do and whether they need to go back to T3 at all. But with AA in T5, any right sizing of BA would then need the additional cost of splitting terminals again. Time will tell.

if you ask HAL that question on twitter the response is "for the foreseeable future"

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