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atlflyer
Topic Author
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EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:38 pm

Some great photos and story on Newark’s Terminal One. I was thinking it was not going to be that nice but the progress photos look great.

https://www.enr.com/articles/49638-newa ... -its-wings
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:16 pm

New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1043
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:20 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


Lol. I’ll add to that. JetBlue’s COO mentioned last week that B6 was eyeing an expansion at EWR following the opening of the new terminal.
 
atlflyer
Topic Author
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:45 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


Lol. I’ll add to that. JetBlue’s COO mentioned last week that B6 was eyeing an expansion at EWR following the opening of the new terminal.


Very nice. I’d fly JetBlue just to use this terminal.
 
N649DL
Posts: 928
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:22 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


HAH! Although, you might be right. Sucks to be UA right now.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:58 pm

Does this mean that EWR wont be the cesspit of America it currently is?
 
ITSTours
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:52 pm

What happens to the current terminal A? It isn't clear after some Google search.

Those "bulbs" seem to be eliminated, but what about the main building?
 
atlflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 721
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:33 am

ITSTours wrote:
What happens to the current terminal A? It isn't clear after some Google search.

Those "bulbs" seem to be eliminated, but what about the main building?


I believe it will be demolished to build the first phase of Terminal 2 (to replace Terminal B). But this is being studied now. No architectural plans have been released.
 
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N62NA
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:47 am

The new terminal is shaping up quite nicely. Looking forward to the opening.
 
ordbosewr
Posts: 607
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:46 am

atlflyer wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
What happens to the current terminal A? It isn't clear after some Google search.

Those "bulbs" seem to be eliminated, but what about the main building?


I believe it will be demolished to build the first phase of Terminal 2 (to replace Terminal B). But this is being studied now. No architectural plans have been released.


They actually need to demolish the old terminal A to make way for the parking stands and taxiways that are planned to support the new Terminal 1. (based on the terminal 1 briefing book here: https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/)

The new Terminal 2 and Terminal 1 are not connected (at least from that perspective). Terminal A will be gone.

Given the financial hit the PA will take, I do not see anything happening to Terminal 2 anytime soon. ....
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:42 am

ordbosewr wrote:
atlflyer wrote:
ITSTours wrote:
What happens to the current terminal A? It isn't clear after some Google search.

Those "bulbs" seem to be eliminated, but what about the main building?


I believe it will be demolished to build the first phase of Terminal 2 (to replace Terminal B). But this is being studied now. No architectural plans have been released.


They actually need to demolish the old terminal A to make way for the parking stands and taxiways that are planned to support the new Terminal 1. (based on the terminal 1 briefing book here: https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/)

The new Terminal 2 and Terminal 1 are not connected (at least from that perspective). Terminal A will be gone.

Given the financial hit the PA will take, I do not see anything happening to Terminal 2 anytime soon. ....


Terminal A’s satellites will be demolished but the main head house will remain.

Terminal 1 and 2 are actually planned to connect based on preliminary renderings.

In my opinion, it seems Terminal 1 will only sever as a shorter term solution as it doesn’t really allow for any growth.
 
atlflyer
Topic Author
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 11:13 am

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:09 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
ordbosewr wrote:
atlflyer wrote:

I believe it will be demolished to build the first phase of Terminal 2 (to replace Terminal B). But this is being studied now. No architectural plans have been released.


They actually need to demolish the old terminal A to make way for the parking stands and taxiways that are planned to support the new Terminal 1. (based on the terminal 1 briefing book here: https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/)

The new Terminal 2 and Terminal 1 are not connected (at least from that perspective). Terminal A will be gone.

Given the financial hit the PA will take, I do not see anything happening to Terminal 2 anytime soon. ....


Terminal A’s satellites will be demolished but the main head house will remain.

Terminal 1 and 2 are actually planned to connect based on preliminary renderings.

In my opinion, it seems Terminal 1 will only sever as a shorter term solution as it doesn’t really allow for any growth.


I imagine the old head house will remain only temporarily. What use could they possibly have for it? It’s demolition will probably be funded in another plan.
 
EWRandMDW
Posts: 444
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:12 pm

A few things:

1. I will consider the terminals to be A, B and C. I don't care if they use numbers in NYC. The current naming gives EWR some individuality.
2. I wonder about the feasibility of somehow physically merging the Existing Terminal A and B headhouses into a single building and adding 4-5 7-gate piers in place of the satellites and have a common A and B customs and immigration facility? Larger aircraft can be parked at outside piers and smaller planes at the inner piers closest to the runways.
3. Leave Terminal C as is.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1036
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:17 pm

EWRandMDW wrote:
3. Leave Terminal C as is.


My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that part of demolishing the old terminals is so they can build further back to allow for 22R/4L to be moved to allow for simultaneous approaches.

If that is in fact the plan then C will come down too.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:24 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
3. Leave Terminal C as is.


My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that part of demolishing the old terminals is so they can build further back to allow for 22R/4L to be moved to allow for simultaneous approaches.

If that is in fact the plan then C will come down too.



A.net myth.

There is nothing official on this
 
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aemoreira1981
Posts: 3532
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:38 pm

N649DL wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


HAH! Although, you might be right. Sucks to be UA right now.


UA could use some reasonable competition, especially in J. If anyone can disturb the fortress hub at EWR, it is B6. I could see them growing to 60 flights a day.
 
United857
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 am

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:02 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
EWRandMDW wrote:
3. Leave Terminal C as is.


My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that part of demolishing the old terminals is so they can build further back to allow for 22R/4L to be moved to allow for simultaneous approaches.

If that is in fact the plan then C will come down too.



A.net myth.

There is nothing official on this

It's not possible to line up two aircraft onto the 4/22s at EWR simultaneously due to the low-altitude traffic coming up along the Hudson for all LGA arrivals that come in from the south and the west at about 4000 ft. To do simultaneous approaches, you need one arrival stream coming from the west of EWR and one from the east. It is not possible to set up an arrival stream to the east of EWR due to airspace restrictions with LGA/JFK.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
N649DL
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Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:06 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


HAH! Although, you might be right. Sucks to be UA right now.


UA could use some reasonable competition, especially in J. If anyone can disturb the fortress hub at EWR, it is B6. I could see them growing to 60 flights a day.


And *now* people want to see EWR have rightful competition against UA. It only took about a decade, but many used to never wanted that to happen to disturb UA's fortress hub presence. I've always been for it and happy B6 is pushing for it.
 
CriticalPoint
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Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:58 pm

United857 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that part of demolishing the old terminals is so they can build further back to allow for 22R/4L to be moved to allow for simultaneous approaches.

If that is in fact the plan then C will come down too.



A.net myth.

There is nothing official on this

It's not possible to line up two aircraft onto the 4/22s at EWR simultaneously due to the low-altitude traffic coming up along the Hudson for all LGA arrivals that come in from the south and the west at about 4000 ft. To do simultaneous approaches, you need one arrival stream coming from the west of EWR and one from the east. It is not possible to set up an arrival stream to the east of EWR due to airspace restrictions with LGA/JFK.


I see your point but couldn’t they do a straight in from the north/south to the eastern runway then do a downwind to the west?

That’s how they run 3 ILS in DEN
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


Would be great to see B6 expand at EWR and they are the right airline to challenge UA's dominant position at EWR, rather than Spirit or another LCC leading that effort. UA had, pre-COVID19 a formidable operation at EWR and the most comprehensive route map of the US3 in the NYC area and the advantage of being able to do it under one roof. The airport's pre-COVID19 congestion and delay issues were and will still be problematic if and when traffic resumes normal levels.

The success though of B6 (and UA, for that matter) at EWR will depend on traffic rebounding, when, and how, and what that traffic looks like. What gives UA heft (and pricing power) at EWR are corporate contracts. The absence of a meaningful challenge to UA means fares out of EWR are often higher than at LGA or JFK. Leisure traffic alone is not going to make EWR profitable for anyone. Adding MINT to LAX and SFO is a smart move on B6's part. The rest of the expansion though, if focused on Florida and Caribbean routes, will not do a whole lot to dent UA's footprint all that much. Am no fan of UA and never bought into the company's renaissance of late (pre-COVID). They simply had, for the first time in decades, more competent management and bean counters, but all the marketing cleverness, Polaris this and that, and the appearance of a more friendly, customer-oriented operation is all smoke and mirrors. UA remains a lousy airline.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:29 pm

B6 thrives (lives on) NY Leisure traffic to Florida and the islands.

They don’t need to compete directly with United.

Like Delta at JFK, Jetblue has their piece and Delta has theirs.

JetBlue isnt looking to fly to ORD 10 times a day. But they will fly to Santiago 5 times a day. And United, historically, doesn’t have that type of frequency to VFR markets out of EWR.

So, Jetblue will have those markets to themselves or will force united to devote resources to match them.

At a space-constrained airport, that is a big deal.

LA and SF on mint are a different story.

They just need a piece of the pie there… And there’s plenty to go around. Eventually building up to 4 or 5 daily plus JFK is all B6 needs.

You look out into the future and you could see 10 gates and 100 flights.

Currently 5 gates and closing in at 40
 
tphuang
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:43 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
N649DL wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


HAH! Although, you might be right. Sucks to be UA right now.


UA could use some reasonable competition, especially in J. If anyone can disturb the fortress hub at EWR, it is B6. I could see them growing to 60 flights a day.

60 is pretty easy. They will already be at the over 50 with these new routes if they bring back everything they had pre vivid. Add a few more island routes and add a couple of more mint flights to lax, they are at 60.

If there is enough space, they should go for 80 to 100. That would require them to try some more risky stuff domestically. No reason they can’t coexist with ua as a viable second carrier for jersey. If they get large enough, I think you will see nk and f9 shrink at ewr.

Again, no pilot furlough means they should have all the resources they need next summer to make a big push in New York and New Jersey area.
 
AA738789
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:44 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:58 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


Would be great to see B6 expand at EWR and they are the right airline to challenge UA's dominant position at EWR, rather than Spirit or another LCC leading that effort. UA had, pre-COVID19 a formidable operation at EWR and the most comprehensive route map of the US3 in the NYC area and the advantage of being able to do it under one roof. The airport's pre-COVID19 congestion and delay issues were and will still be problematic if and when traffic resumes normal levels.

The success though of B6 (and UA, for that matter) at EWR will depend on traffic rebounding, when, and how, and what that traffic looks like. What gives UA heft (and pricing power) at EWR are corporate contracts. The absence of a meaningful challenge to UA means fares out of EWR are often higher than at LGA or JFK. Leisure traffic alone is not going to make EWR profitable for anyone. Adding MINT to LAX and SFO is a smart move on B6's part. The rest of the expansion though, if focused on Florida and Caribbean routes, will not do a whole lot to dent UA's footprint all that much. Am no fan of UA and never bought into the company's renaissance of late (pre-COVID). They simply had, for the first time in decades, more competent management and bean counters, but all the marketing cleverness, Polaris this and that, and the appearance of a more friendly, customer-oriented operation is all smoke and mirrors. UA remains a lousy airline.



UA has come a long way from their previous years. It's unfortunate that the media and individuals still portray the airline so negatively.

Disagree with your with latter sentiments.
 
United857
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:37 am

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:07 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
United857 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


A.net myth.

There is nothing official on this

It's not possible to line up two aircraft onto the 4/22s at EWR simultaneously due to the low-altitude traffic coming up along the Hudson for all LGA arrivals that come in from the south and the west at about 4000 ft. To do simultaneous approaches, you need one arrival stream coming from the west of EWR and one from the east. It is not possible to set up an arrival stream to the east of EWR due to airspace restrictions with LGA/JFK.


I see your point but couldn’t they do a straight in from the north/south to the eastern runway then do a downwind to the west?

That’s how they run 3 ILS in DEN

That might work for the 4s, but not for the more commonly used 22s, as a straight in approach would royally screw up TEB which is pretty much located on the extended centerline of the approach to the 22s just 10nm from the threshold. Although TEB doesn't see any commercial traffic, it still handled a whopping 170,000 movements in 2019 due to the sheer number of private jet users in NYC. To give an idea of how many movements that is, it is the equivalent of a mid-size US commercial airport in 2019: STL at 190,000, CVG at 160,000, and CLE at 120,000.
A319 A320 A321 A333 A343 A346 A388 B712 B733 B737 B738 B739 B744 B748 B752 B764 B772 B77L B77W B788 B789 CRJ2 E145 E75S E75L E190 MD88 MD90
AA AC B6 CA CX CZ DL EK FM HU JL KA LH LX MU NH NK TK UA US
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:05 pm

AA738789 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
New JetBlue hub...

Just to stir the pot.


Would be great to see B6 expand at EWR and they are the right airline to challenge UA's dominant position at EWR, rather than Spirit or another LCC leading that effort. UA had, pre-COVID19 a formidable operation at EWR and the most comprehensive route map of the US3 in the NYC area and the advantage of being able to do it under one roof. The airport's pre-COVID19 congestion and delay issues were and will still be problematic if and when traffic resumes normal levels.

The success though of B6 (and UA, for that matter) at EWR will depend on traffic rebounding, when, and how, and what that traffic looks like. What gives UA heft (and pricing power) at EWR are corporate contracts. The absence of a meaningful challenge to UA means fares out of EWR are often higher than at LGA or JFK. Leisure traffic alone is not going to make EWR profitable for anyone. Adding MINT to LAX and SFO is a smart move on B6's part. The rest of the expansion though, if focused on Florida and Caribbean routes, will not do a whole lot to dent UA's footprint all that much. Am no fan of UA and never bought into the company's renaissance of late (pre-COVID). They simply had, for the first time in decades, more competent management and bean counters, but all the marketing cleverness, Polaris this and that, and the appearance of a more friendly, customer-oriented operation is all smoke and mirrors. UA remains a lousy airline.



UA has come a long way from their previous years. It's unfortunate that the media and individuals still portray the airline so negatively.

Disagree with your with latter sentiments.


Yes, UA has come a long way, indeed, but just looking at how it responded to COVID19 relative to its peers, the issues of the past still lurk in its DNA.
 
CriticalPoint
Posts: 1036
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:13 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
AA738789 wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:

Would be great to see B6 expand at EWR and they are the right airline to challenge UA's dominant position at EWR, rather than Spirit or another LCC leading that effort. UA had, pre-COVID19 a formidable operation at EWR and the most comprehensive route map of the US3 in the NYC area and the advantage of being able to do it under one roof. The airport's pre-COVID19 congestion and delay issues were and will still be problematic if and when traffic resumes normal levels.

The success though of B6 (and UA, for that matter) at EWR will depend on traffic rebounding, when, and how, and what that traffic looks like. What gives UA heft (and pricing power) at EWR are corporate contracts. The absence of a meaningful challenge to UA means fares out of EWR are often higher than at LGA or JFK. Leisure traffic alone is not going to make EWR profitable for anyone. Adding MINT to LAX and SFO is a smart move on B6's part. The rest of the expansion though, if focused on Florida and Caribbean routes, will not do a whole lot to dent UA's footprint all that much. Am no fan of UA and never bought into the company's renaissance of late (pre-COVID). They simply had, for the first time in decades, more competent management and bean counters, but all the marketing cleverness, Polaris this and that, and the appearance of a more friendly, customer-oriented operation is all smoke and mirrors. UA remains a lousy airline.



UA has come a long way from their previous years. It's unfortunate that the media and individuals still portray the airline so negatively.

Disagree with your with latter sentiments.


Yes, UA has come a long way, indeed, but just looking at how it responded to COVID19 relative to its peers, the issues of the past still lurk in its DNA.


Funny I don’t remember this thread being about your opinion of United.......Another DL lover polluting the forum with BS.
 
United1
Posts: 4155
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:58 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
AA738789 wrote:


UA has come a long way from their previous years. It's unfortunate that the media and individuals still portray the airline so negatively.

Disagree with your with latter sentiments.


Yes, UA has come a long way, indeed, but just looking at how it responded to COVID19 relative to its peers, the issues of the past still lurk in its DNA.


Funny I don’t remember this thread being about your opinion of United.......Another DL lover polluting the forum with BS.


It is amazing how much this thread has become a bash fest on UA and chest bumping from B6 fans (BTW there are no guarantees that ANY of the flying B6 is adding at EWR/JFK is going to work.) Also people should keep in mind something about T1....UA is expected to be it's largest tenant. It's not just some giant empty building that airlines can expand at will in. Lots (if not most of the space) is already spoken for.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:55 pm

United857 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
United857 wrote:
It's not possible to line up two aircraft onto the 4/22s at EWR simultaneously due to the low-altitude traffic coming up along the Hudson for all LGA arrivals that come in from the south and the west at about 4000 ft. To do simultaneous approaches, you need one arrival stream coming from the west of EWR and one from the east. It is not possible to set up an arrival stream to the east of EWR due to airspace restrictions with LGA/JFK.


I see your point but couldn’t they do a straight in from the north/south to the eastern runway then do a downwind to the west?

That’s how they run 3 ILS in DEN

That might work for the 4s, but not for the more commonly used 22s, as a straight in approach would royally screw up TEB which is pretty much located on the extended centerline of the approach to the 22s just 10nm from the threshold. Although TEB doesn't see any commercial traffic, it still handled a whopping 170,000 movements in 2019 due to the sheer number of private jet users in NYC. To give an idea of how many movements that is, it is the equivalent of a mid-size US commercial airport in 2019: STL at 190,000, CVG at 160,000, and CLE at 120,000.


I doubt it would work in either direction. There’s a ton of GA traffic around EWR. From the north you have issues with TEB and also the large number of helicopters flying tourists and executives around the Kearny heliports nearby. Towards the south, you have more GA traffic including every news helicopter in the city based at Linden. Traffic taking off from linden must remain at or below 800 feet to avoid the class bravo. Simultaneous approaches will only cause headaches on both sides of the field.
 
as739x
Posts: 5210
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:10 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
United857 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


A.net myth.

There is nothing official on this

It's not possible to line up two aircraft onto the 4/22s at EWR simultaneously due to the low-altitude traffic coming up along the Hudson for all LGA arrivals that come in from the south and the west at about 4000 ft. To do simultaneous approaches, you need one arrival stream coming from the west of EWR and one from the east. It is not possible to set up an arrival stream to the east of EWR due to airspace restrictions with LGA/JFK.


I see your point but couldn’t they do a straight in from the north/south to the eastern runway then do a downwind to the west?

That’s how they run 3 ILS in DEN


You can't compare DEN to EWR. DEN is a stand alone airport, where as EWR is in close proximity to 2 other major airports. Less not forget Terhole to the north, one of the busiest GA airports in the country.

Also, if you move the terminals West at EWR, to allow a new runway, your losing an amazing amount of real estate. It's just not realistic!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1913
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:07 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
AA738789 wrote:


UA has come a long way from their previous years. It's unfortunate that the media and individuals still portray the airline so negatively.

Disagree with your with latter sentiments.


Yes, UA has come a long way, indeed, but just looking at how it responded to COVID19 relative to its peers, the issues of the past still lurk in its DNA.


Funny I don’t remember this thread being about your opinion of United.......Another DL lover polluting the forum with BS.


Not a fan of DL either.
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 1948
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:11 pm

JFKalumni wrote:

I doubt it would work in either direction. There’s a ton of GA traffic around EWR. From the north you have issues with TEB and also the large number of helicopters flying tourists and executives around the Kearny heliports nearby. Towards the south, you have more GA traffic including every news helicopter in the city based at Linden. Traffic taking off from linden must remain at or below 800 feet to avoid the class bravo. Simultaneous approaches will only cause headaches on both sides of the field.


Any sharp approach controller could run traffic from the same fix to both the 4s or 22s in VMC conditions and that's what it would take to land on closely-spaced parallels anyway. EWR will never be able to move the 4s/22s far enough apart to run independent, parallel, simultaneous, staggered etc. approaches in IMC.

We ran parallel visual approaches to 14L and 14R at ORD all the time in VMC and we ran them off the same straight-in fix or the same downwind. It's a matter of maintaining vertical separation until you can obtain AND maintain (pilot) visual separation with the lead A/C. It's a lot of work, a lot of phraseology and it's very helpful to be working with flight crews that know what ATC is trying accomplish and does their best to work with them. It can be really tough with non-native English speaking flight crews. We did the same at LAX running visuals to the same complex using pilot visual separation regardless of what fix they arrived from.

The problem at EWR is that even if you were able to run arrival streams to both parallels, your departures would be nearly stopped. Depending on the type of A/C involved, you need at least 6-mile spacing on final to depart the same runway between arrivals. Add a couple miles on to that to allow for the outboard arrivals to cross the inboard runway between arrivals. Heavy jets, don't clear the runway as fast and they don't roll as fast so those are other variables to consider.
 
JFKalumni
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:45 pm

Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:31 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
JFKalumni wrote:

I doubt it would work in either direction. There’s a ton of GA traffic around EWR. From the north you have issues with TEB and also the large number of helicopters flying tourists and executives around the Kearny heliports nearby. Towards the south, you have more GA traffic including every news helicopter in the city based at Linden. Traffic taking off from linden must remain at or below 800 feet to avoid the class bravo. Simultaneous approaches will only cause headaches on both sides of the field.


Any sharp approach controller could run traffic from the same fix to both the 4s or 22s in VMC conditions and that's what it would take to land on closely-spaced parallels anyway. EWR will never be able to move the 4s/22s far enough apart to run independent, parallel, simultaneous, staggered etc. approaches in IMC.

We ran parallel visual approaches to 14L and 14R at ORD all the time in VMC and we ran them off the same straight-in fix or the same downwind. It's a matter of maintaining vertical separation until you can obtain AND maintain (pilot) visual separation with the lead A/C. It's a lot of work, a lot of phraseology and it's very helpful to be working with flight crews that know what ATC is trying accomplish and does their best to work with them. It can be really tough with non-native English speaking flight crews. We did the same at LAX running visuals to the same complex using pilot visual separation regardless of what fix they arrived from.

The problem at EWR is that even if you were able to run arrival streams to both parallels, your departures would be nearly stopped. Depending on the type of A/C involved, you need at least 6-mile spacing on final to depart the same runway between arrivals. Add a couple miles on to that to allow for the outboard arrivals to cross the inboard runway between arrivals. Heavy jets, don't clear the runway as fast and they don't roll as fast so those are other variables to consider.


Yes you’re correct but EWR also has dedicated helicopter traffic routes. The linden route runs north/south along route 1/9 and it intersects with the Newark route. Most helicopters departing LDJ are routed this way in order to make their way towards lower Manhattan. The Newark route requires you to fly across EWR midfield at 1500 feet and you can request higher around Statue of Liberty or the freedom tower. The helicopter bridge route is closed to all traffic if the stadium visual approach is active for the crosswind 11/29 runway.

Between redesigning the approach and being careful of possible go arounds with traffic crossing midfield. I doubt they would take that chance.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:05 am

Very poorly written article.

But question: is this new T1 intended to have FIS, or at least the physical capability to add such?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
atlflyer
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:45 am

For those wondering where Terminal Two will go:

Beyond the Terminal One project, the Port Authority has authorized spending $29 million to plan for Terminal Two, to replace the current Terminal B, which serves international flights. Terminal Two would be located west of the current Terminal B, on land now used for Terminal B parking. No timeline has been set for Terminal Two.

“We’re very, very focused on the next step for improving the experience at Newark airport,” says Lawrence. “World-class airports have world-class international terminals.”

https://njmonthly.com/articles/jersey-l ... -terminal/
 
ewt340
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:32 am

It looks good. I love using EWR because their locations. Hopefully this project became a big success and they would considered updating other terminals as well.
 
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sjones1975
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:42 am

atlflyer wrote:

Beyond the Terminal One project, the Port Authority has authorized spending $29 million to plan for Terminal Two, to replace the current Terminal B, which serves international flights. Terminal Two would be located west of the current Terminal B, on land now used for Terminal B parking. No timeline has been set for Terminal Two.

“We’re very, very focused on the next step for improving the experience at Newark airport,” says Lawrence. “World-class airports have world-class international terminals.”



So when Terminal Two is finished (I'm guessing 10-15 years from now), that will leave United, the hub tenant, with the worst facilities at the airport. Is there any serious talk of replacing Terminal C?
my longest flight in a 757: FRU-ADA-SNN-BWI
 
N649DL
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:41 am

ewt340 wrote:
It looks good. I love using EWR because their locations. Hopefully this project became a big success and they would considered updating other terminals as well.



No matter how you slice it, EWR is a garbage airport. Having B6 making a hub in the mix will be better.

Terminal B at EWR really isn't that bad. IMHO, it's better than Terminal C in some ways.
 
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Polot
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:54 am

N649DL wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
It looks good. I love using EWR because their locations. Hopefully this project became a big success and they would considered updating other terminals as well.



No matter how you slice it, EWR is a garbage airport. Having B6 making a hub in the mix will be better.

Terminal B at EWR really isn't that bad. IMHO, it's better than Terminal C in some ways.

Terminal B FIS has a nice overview of the field and depending on time of day can be quicker than C...and that’s about the only thing about B better than C. Unless you liked cramped hallways with security shoved in and then cramped rotundas with little to do and nowhere to go.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:45 pm

N649DL wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
It looks good. I love using EWR because their locations. Hopefully this project became a big success and they would considered updating other terminals as well.



No matter how you slice it, EWR is a garbage airport. Having B6 making a hub in the mix will be better.

Terminal B at EWR really isn't that bad. IMHO, it's better than Terminal C in some ways.



It really isn’t.

It’s comparable to LAX and a larger LaGuardia.

Space constrained and no room to grow.

However, it has a good location, it has the best access via roads out of any New York airport, and once the terminals get better (and the Port Authority stops running A and B) It will be a better airport.

The port authority is no longer running any terminal at JFK. They are no longer running terminals at LGA.

It will be down to just one terminal that they are running at Newark once Terminal 1 opens.

A government entity that is perpetually cash-strapped and bloated shouldn’t be in charge of daily terminal operations.


Old IAB

Old Central Terminal

Terminals A and B

That is what happens when the PA tries to run a terminal.
 
atlflyer
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:59 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
N649DL wrote:
ewt340 wrote:
It looks good. I love using EWR because their locations. Hopefully this project became a big success and they would considered updating other terminals as well.



No matter how you slice it, EWR is a garbage airport. Having B6 making a hub in the mix will be better.

Terminal B at EWR really isn't that bad. IMHO, it's better than Terminal C in some ways.



It really isn’t.

It’s comparable to LAX and a larger LaGuardia.

Space constrained and no room to grow.

However, it has a good location, it has the best access via roads out of any New York airport, and once the terminals get better (and the Port Authority stops running A and B) It will be a better airport.

The port authority is no longer running any terminal at JFK. They are no longer running terminals at LGA.

It will be down to just one terminal that they are running at Newark once Terminal 1 opens.

A government entity that is perpetually cash-strapped and bloated shouldn’t be in charge of daily terminal operations.


Old IAB

Old Central Terminal

Terminals A and B

That is what happens when the PA tries to run a terminal.


Very good point I’m really looking forward to Munich Airport running the new T1. Munich is remarkable efficient and clean. One of my favorite airports.

https://www.munich-airport.com/ewr-term ... lc-7625564
 
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STT757
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:04 pm

Up until 2003 EWR was the busiest NYC airport, before a COVID it still was the busiest in terms of domestic traffic. If international lags behind a domestic traffic rebound could EWR regain the title of handling the most traffic? UA hub, B6 focus city, growing NK and F9.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MIflyer12
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:45 pm

sjones1975 wrote:
So when Terminal Two is finished (I'm guessing 10-15 years from now), that will leave United, the hub tenant, with the worst facilities at the airport. Is there any serious talk of replacing Terminal C?


UA, as the Terminal C tenant, can engage PANYNJ about upgrades or replacement any time it's ready to spend big $$$. DL wasn't getting new facilities at LGA, JFK or LAX by just waiting for it to happen.
 
JFKalumni
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:35 pm

 
T5towbar
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:57 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
Very poorly written article.

But question: is this new T1 intended to have FIS, or at least the physical capability to add such?


I'm about 95% sure it won't have FIS. It's not really needed, since most of the stuff coming to the terminal is Pre-Clear.
And planes can be easily moved from Terminal B to the new terminal with no problem. Besides AC; B6 (which have their own Super Tugs); and UA/UAX (which moves their aircraft from B & C), there is not a lot of International stuff going on anyway. It's an easy drive to from B to Term. One. The only thing that will be easy for AC customers to connect with UA/UAX on some routes, and vice versa. The dreaded A - C bus will still have to be used though. And other airline domestic customers (ie: from Term C to Term One) will not have to go thru security twice. (ie: A-3 / A-1 - checkpoints, since the buses only stop in A-2) That alone will be a much easier situation for connectors with tight connections.

The future Terminal Two, will serve those purposes of expanded FIS and such, since that will be a more comprehensive project than Terminal One. It will be a much larger facility.

As far as the headhouse that will be left behind after the satellites torn down, no one really knows yet. Heard nothing from the PA on that front, but something will have to be done since there will be construction for a new monorail to replace the aging system. That is the next project on the table (and the PATH extension) Money is supposed to be already in the pipeline for those two projects. Terminal Two will probably pushed back a bit due to what's going on at present.

BTW: Does anybody know what construction is going on in the short term lot in front of Terminal A? Half of the lot is dug up. I couldn't get a answer from anyone on this.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
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STT757
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:23 pm

T5towbar wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Very poorly written article.

But question: is this new T1 intended to have FIS, or at least the physical capability to add such?


I'm about 95% sure it won't have FIS. It's not really needed, since most of the stuff coming to the terminal is Pre-Clear.
And planes can be easily moved from Terminal B to the new terminal with no problem. Besides AC; B6 (which have their own Super Tugs); and UA/UAX (which moves their aircraft from B & C), there is not a lot of International stuff going on anyway. It's an easy drive to from B to Term. One. The only thing that will be easy for AC customers to connect with UA/UAX on some routes, and vice versa. The dreaded A - C bus will still have to be used though. And other airline domestic customers (ie: from Term C to Term One) will not have to go thru security twice. (ie: A-3 / A-1 - checkpoints, since the buses only stop in A-2) That alone will be a much easier situation for connectors with tight connections.

The future Terminal Two, will serve those purposes of expanded FIS and such, since that will be a more comprehensive project than Terminal One. It will be a much larger facility.

As far as the headhouse that will be left behind after the satellites torn down, no one really knows yet. Heard nothing from the PA on that front, but something will have to be done since there will be construction for a new monorail to replace the aging system. That is the next project on the table (and the PATH extension) Money is supposed to be already in the pipeline for those two projects. Terminal Two will probably pushed back a bit due to what's going on at present.

BTW: Does anybody know what construction is going on in the short term lot in front of Terminal A? Half of the lot is dug up. I couldn't get a answer from anyone on this.


I believe the construction in front of Terminal A is related to connecting the new Terminal One to the airport's chilling plant which is on the East side of Terminal A as seen here.

https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=8719b0d0-539e-4f60-9619-de811e5e4dff&cp=40.688254~-74.180251&lvl=21&style=g&v=2&sV=2&form=S00027
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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william
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:40 pm

Why keep the Terminal A headhouse?
 
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tjwgrr
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:50 pm

T5towbar wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Very poorly written article.

But question: is this new T1 intended to have FIS, or at least the physical capability to add such?


I'm about 95% sure it won't have FIS.....


No FIS initially, but may be included in a future expansion.

"The full concept for the terminal expansion remains under development, as does the decision on whether it would include International Arrivals Federal Inspection Services (FIS) and Customs and Border Protections (CBP) facilities."

See page 24 below:

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... 018_v2.pdf
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
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STT757
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:50 pm

william wrote:
Why keep the Terminal A headhouse?


I believe they are keeping it, temporarily, due to the Airtrain. I believe they are worried about tearing down a building that the increasingly fragile Airtrain runs right through. They're going to keep it until the Airtrain is replaced, then both Terminal A and the old Airtrain can be torn down.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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STT757
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:11 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
T5towbar wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Very poorly written article.

But question: is this new T1 intended to have FIS, or at least the physical capability to add such?


I'm about 95% sure it won't have FIS.....


No FIS initially, but may be included in a future expansion.

"The full concept for the terminal expansion remains under development, as does the decision on whether it would include International Arrivals Federal Inspection Services (FIS) and Customs and Border Protections (CBP) facilities."

See page 24 below:

https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-con ... 018_v2.pdf


Terminal One will be connected to the new Terminal Two. It's possible that the gates in the Terminal One gates closest to Terminal B will have a sterile concourse connection to the FIS in Terminal B.
As depicted in the renderings:

https://corpinfo.panynj.gov/files/uploads/documents/board-meeting-information/board-committee-meeting-presentations/CPEAM_-_EWR_Terminal_2_-_Public_Session.pdf
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: EWR New Terminal One

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:54 pm

tjwgrr wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
But question: is this new T1 intended to have FIS, or at least the physical capability to add such?

No FIS initially, but may be included in a future expansion.

"The full concept for the terminal expansion remains under development, as does the decision on whether it would include International Arrivals Federal Inspection Services (FIS) and Customs and Border Protections (CBP) facilities."

Thaaaaat's what I was curious about.

It would be a remarkable lack of foresight to not build at least a contingency for (efficient) FIS/CBP facility access, into an all-new terminal at one of the busiest int'l gateways in the country.

Thank you for that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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