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PowerJet
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:17 pm

Zero Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:19 pm

If this has already been talked about or if it’s irrelevant, please delete this. But upon searching I noticed that there were zero Expressjet flights In the air right now. A far cry from an airline that used to be one of the largest in the world based on departures less than a decade ago. Any ideas on this? Restructuring maybe? Or just an off day?
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1380
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:35 pm

There's some scheduled today from ORD and IAH, just might be a coincidence that there were none in the air at that moment
 
simairlinenet
Posts: 814
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:24 am

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Fri Jul 03, 2020 6:51 pm

United hubs are running basically 2-3 banks right now. Many aircraft have long sit times midday between them. You happened to check at the right time.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Fri Jul 03, 2020 7:51 pm

At least as of the last schedule their only flying from ORD was TYS and CHA. I don't know about the post holiday schedule. Nearly all their current flying is from IAH.
 
PowerJet
Topic Author
Posts: 18
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2019 6:17 pm

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Fri Jul 03, 2020 9:52 pm

I remember when they did a majority of United’s domestic flying. Something like 3600 flights a day. IIRC Back in 2011 they had some 296 planes (not including ASA)
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1514
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:38 am

Why did they lose so much flying? Were there reliability issues? I know they tried marketing their own flights once, and it was a bomb. No marketing carrier in the US has ever survived by only using RJs and using their own code.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1274
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:56 am

Expressjet never really lost any flying before the merger.

After the UA/CO merger Expressjet and ASA merged, which didn't go so well as the ASA operation was becoming a bit of a mess and the two cultures did not mesh well.

At the same time, CO management both got scope relief from the new combined UA contract with ALPA and saw how UA was able to play carriers off each other for both the best cost and to hold them to each others' "best in class" operating statistics.

Then OO bought EV. OO isn't union and didn't really have any interest at all in growing Expressjet. They aggressively bid more and more flying from UA under contract to OO and not EV. Then UA took some of EV's best frames and gave them to C5, which they had essentially taken over. They also took some of their good frames and contracted them to AX (they're getting them back now at least but there's not much flying for them).

When AA dropped ZW, UA swooped in and gave them the majority of the ORD 50 seater flying that OO wasn't flying pro-rate since they were dirt cheap and all their maintenance is less than a 45 minute flight away, basically pushing EV out of ORD. C5 going to jets and YX being allowed in pushed EV out of EWR.

So yeah, now no longer under OO's thumb, they are once again stuck with essentially just a big IAH ERJ145 operation. They are now primarily owned by UA and UA is content to keep them as basically just the C5 of IAH. Maybe post-COVID they might get some DEN flying back that was previously operated by AX, especially to stations that also have EV service to IAH.

This is again also assuming that OO wants to continue flying CR2's on a Fee-For-Departure basis. If they stop bidding on 50 seater flying then all hell will break loose and UA will probably send EV out to LAX and/or SFO since there are a number of non-prorate stations there that can't support 70 seaters..
 
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TWA772LR
Posts: 7243
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:38 am

I have a soft spot for EV since my mom worked for them as a training scheduler, my brother was a flight attendant for them, and I work with a lot of pilots at my airline that are former EV. It pains me to see them in their current state when they used to have a 400+ fleet and being jerked around with the 175s. Hopefully a great rebound happens.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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usdcaguy
Posts: 1514
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:11 am

drdisque wrote:
Expressjet never really lost any flying before the merger.

After the UA/CO merger Expressjet and ASA merged, which didn't go so well as the ASA operation was becoming a bit of a mess and the two cultures did not mesh well.

At the same time, CO management both got scope relief from the new combined UA contract with ALPA and saw how UA was able to play carriers off each other for both the best cost and to hold them to each others' "best in class" operating statistics.

Then OO bought EV. OO isn't union and didn't really have any interest at all in growing Expressjet. They aggressively bid more and more flying from UA under contract to OO and not EV. Then UA took some of EV's best frames and gave them to C5, which they had essentially taken over. They also took some of their good frames and contracted them to AX (they're getting them back now at least but there's not much flying for them).

When AA dropped ZW, UA swooped in and gave them the majority of the ORD 50 seater flying that OO wasn't flying pro-rate since they were dirt cheap and all their maintenance is less than a 45 minute flight away, basically pushing EV out of ORD. C5 going to jets and YX being allowed in pushed EV out of EWR.

So yeah, now no longer under OO's thumb, they are once again stuck with essentially just a big IAH ERJ145 operation. They are now primarily owned by UA and UA is content to keep them as basically just the C5 of IAH. Maybe post-COVID they might get some DEN flying back that was previously operated by AX, especially to stations that also have EV service to IAH.

This is again also assuming that OO wants to continue flying CR2's on a Fee-For-Departure basis. If they stop bidding on 50 seater flying then all hell will break loose and UA will probably send EV out to LAX and/or SFO since there are a number of non-prorate stations there that can't support 70 seaters..


Still not clear why EV lost so much flying. Could they not come in as the lowest bidder due to its unionized workforce? It’s also easy to forget the amount of flying EV did for DL in the past and subsequently lost to other carriers such as OO. EV always seemed to be late for some reason. It took
DL years to get all its regional carriers as on time as its mainline operation, and EV always seemed to be part of the problem. It will be interesting to see whether EV will survive the COVID debacle and its impacts on regionals.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14426
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:29 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
drdisque wrote:
Expressjet never really lost any flying before the merger.

After the UA/CO merger Expressjet and ASA merged, which didn't go so well as the ASA operation was becoming a bit of a mess and the two cultures did not mesh well.

At the same time, CO management both got scope relief from the new combined UA contract with ALPA and saw how UA was able to play carriers off each other for both the best cost and to hold them to each others' "best in class" operating statistics.

Then OO bought EV. OO isn't union and didn't really have any interest at all in growing Expressjet. They aggressively bid more and more flying from UA under contract to OO and not EV. Then UA took some of EV's best frames and gave them to C5, which they had essentially taken over. They also took some of their good frames and contracted them to AX (they're getting them back now at least but there's not much flying for them).

When AA dropped ZW, UA swooped in and gave them the majority of the ORD 50 seater flying that OO wasn't flying pro-rate since they were dirt cheap and all their maintenance is less than a 45 minute flight away, basically pushing EV out of ORD. C5 going to jets and YX being allowed in pushed EV out of EWR.

So yeah, now no longer under OO's thumb, they are once again stuck with essentially just a big IAH ERJ145 operation. They are now primarily owned by UA and UA is content to keep them as basically just the C5 of IAH. Maybe post-COVID they might get some DEN flying back that was previously operated by AX, especially to stations that also have EV service to IAH.

This is again also assuming that OO wants to continue flying CR2's on a Fee-For-Departure basis. If they stop bidding on 50 seater flying then all hell will break loose and UA will probably send EV out to LAX and/or SFO since there are a number of non-prorate stations there that can't support 70 seaters..


Still not clear why EV lost so much flying. Could they not come in as the lowest bidder due to its unionized workforce? It’s also easy to forget the amount of flying EV did for DL in the past and subsequently lost to other carriers such as OO. EV always seemed to be late for some reason. It took
DL years to get all its regional carriers as on time as its mainline operation, and EV always seemed to be part of the problem. It will be interesting to see whether EV will survive the COVID debacle and its impacts on regionals.


EV was an operational mess in ATL. We called them America’s Sorriest Airline (or something a hair more profane) for a reason. Anyone who was a frequent DL flier in the 90s or 00s has stories. My personal favorite was an ATL-CAE flight where we took a 75 minute delay because we were nose heavy and the ramp could not locate any ballast.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4254
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: ZERO Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:46 pm

Remember there are two EV histories. Both were quite distinct. ASA operated for DL while ExpressJet was a regional owned by CO. CO Sold Expressjet (XE) to SkyWest which also purchased ASA and merged the two together into ExpressJet and used ASA's EV code.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: ZERO EV Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:50 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
drdisque wrote:
Expressjet never really lost any flying before the merger.

After the UA/CO merger Expressjet and ASA merged, which didn't go so well as the ASA operation was becoming a bit of a mess and the two cultures did not mesh well.

At the same time, CO management both got scope relief from the new combined UA contract with ALPA and saw how UA was able to play carriers off each other for both the best cost and to hold them to each others' "best in class" operating statistics.

Then OO bought EV. OO isn't union and didn't really have any interest at all in growing Expressjet. They aggressively bid more and more flying from UA under contract to OO and not EV. Then UA took some of EV's best frames and gave them to C5, which they had essentially taken over. They also took some of their good frames and contracted them to AX (they're getting them back now at least but there's not much flying for them).

When AA dropped ZW, UA swooped in and gave them the majority of the ORD 50 seater flying that OO wasn't flying pro-rate since they were dirt cheap and all their maintenance is less than a 45 minute flight away, basically pushing EV out of ORD. C5 going to jets and YX being allowed in pushed EV out of EWR.

So yeah, now no longer under OO's thumb, they are once again stuck with essentially just a big IAH ERJ145 operation. They are now primarily owned by UA and UA is content to keep them as basically just the C5 of IAH. Maybe post-COVID they might get some DEN flying back that was previously operated by AX, especially to stations that also have EV service to IAH.

This is again also assuming that OO wants to continue flying CR2's on a Fee-For-Departure basis. If they stop bidding on 50 seater flying then all hell will break loose and UA will probably send EV out to LAX and/or SFO since there are a number of non-prorate stations there that can't support 70 seaters..


Still not clear why EV lost so much flying. Could they not come in as the lowest bidder due to its unionized workforce? It’s also easy to forget the amount of flying EV did for DL in the past and subsequently lost to other carriers such as OO. EV always seemed to be late for some reason. It took
DL years to get all its regional carriers as on time as its mainline operation, and EV always seemed to be part of the problem. It will be interesting to see whether EV will survive the COVID debacle and its impacts on regionals.

OO controlled where flying went. EV had a 175 program and deep United/continental ties. Through acquiring EV, OO had access and was able to use their 175 program and place the United flying on offer at OO (more accurately, XE, but I’ll say EV for simplicity). Prior to the EV control, OO was solely CRJ with a EMB-120 operation out west.
OO gained a massive United 175 operation and took all available DL flying and placed it at OO. EV over the same time period gained and lost a small AA operation, lost swathes of 145s to C5 and AX, and their CRJ operation was piecemealed between OO and 9E.

Once EV was sold away from OO holdings, they gained (and since lost due to TSH issues) a 175 fleet. Who knows what happened next. UAX is the most scattered of all legacy regional ops. Delta and American have spent the last three years simplifying their feed.
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 4:40 am

Re: ZERO Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:02 pm

‘50 seats - The Rise and Fall of Expressjet’
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 7243
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

Re: ZERO Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:43 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
‘50 seats - The Rise and Fall of Expressjet’

I'd watch it.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: ZERO Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:50 pm

CATIIIevery5yrs wrote:
‘50 seats - The Rise and Fall of Expressjet’

Yep, solely living off single class flying isn’t a long term future, especially with no replacements in production.

When you look at UAX, you have four carriers operating single class jets, Whiskey, Skywest, Commutair, ExpressJet. Trans States just dropped off the list, and you wonder if another will reduce their 50 seat flying. At American they’re down to two (Envoy and Piedmont), and Delta essentially down to one (Endeavor, and Skywest doing their own EAS).
 
Alias1024
Posts: 2628
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:13 am

Re: ZERO Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:07 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
Remember there are two EV histories. Both were quite distinct. ASA operated for DL while ExpressJet was a regional owned by CO. CO Sold Expressjet (XE) to SkyWest which also purchased ASA and merged the two together into ExpressJet and used ASA's EV code.


CO did not sell ExpressJet to SkyWest. They spun it off into an independent, publicly traded company. SkyWest purchased ExpressJet years later.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
jonair8
Posts: 96
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:10 am

Re: Zero Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:33 pm

Anyone able to shine a light as to why OO CR2s are doing the majority of the DEN Express operation instead of the EV E45s? UA was going to invest heavily in the E45 side out of DEN but now it seems all but non existent. I was under the impression that since OO got EV’s E7S, that EV was going to therefore take the AX E45s, experience an overall net growth of frames, and do the majority of DEN in addition to IAH, plus maybe some of ORD.

Did OO make a big stink about losing DEN and threaten UA? Was EV unable to fulfill their increase of commitment? What will the DEN UA Express operation look like after covid? Many questions...
 
jetmatt777
Posts: 4254
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 2:16 am

Re: ZERO Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:53 pm

Alias1024 wrote:
jetmatt777 wrote:
Remember there are two EV histories. Both were quite distinct. ASA operated for DL while ExpressJet was a regional owned by CO. CO Sold Expressjet (XE) to SkyWest which also purchased ASA and merged the two together into ExpressJet and used ASA's EV code.


CO did not sell ExpressJet to SkyWest. They spun it off into an independent, publicly traded company. SkyWest purchased ExpressJet years later.


That's right. Thanks for the refresher. That was a busy time for the regionals as far as mergers, closing, and acquisitions go.
 
amcnd
Posts: 191
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:19 am

Re: Zero Expressjet (EV) Flights right now.

Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:21 pm

It all comes down to one thing, OO thought they could apply there cost structure to EV/XJT. Well the do diligence they did wasn't good enough. They could never get the costs inline. Aircraft leases, mx cost, crew integration., ect...The one responsible was let go and They slowly shedded what they could of EV/XTJ..

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