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UA857
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Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:28 pm

Prior to COVID-19 was UA flying a less dense 787 on the SFO-SIN route or were they weight-restricting the aircraft for the flight?
 
Pinto
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:40 pm

They were flying a regular 787-9. They only have 2 cpnfigs of the 787-9 , one with the new Polaris and the old however the difference in total seats is under 8 i think. Originally they held seat however the last flew times I looked pre-COVID they weren't holding any.
 
as739x
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:55 am

Covid hit during the winter season. Chances are seats were being blocked for weight due to headwinds. This flight can be a nasty one during the winter. I have a Captain friend that blocked a 18:05 SFO-SIN, granted this was gate to gate.

When working Ops in SFO, this flight would get restricted frequently, but manage to get almost everyone on a fair share of the time. Usually with some bummed cans underneath, per the crews request.

There is only a 5 seat difference in the 787-9 configs
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:03 am

UA857 wrote:
Prior to COVID-19 was UA flying a less dense 787 on the SFO-SIN route or were they weight-restricting the aircraft for the flight?


There are only two configurations of 787-9's (Polaris updated cabin) and the old BusinessFirst seat. There are no less dense/more densely configured UA 787 cabins across the fleet 8/9/10. I do not know about weight penalties on SFO-SIN, but the short lived LAX-SIN flight UA operated did take penalties on the way out of LAX.
 
dlphoenix
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:36 am

I took this flight on Jan 2019. The seat map showed a full flight.
DLP
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:51 am

dlphoenix wrote:
I took this flight on Jan 2019. The seat map showed a full flight.
DLP


That does not necessarily mean it was full. Some seats may have been blocked.

Yes, it might have been full. Depends on the day and conditions.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
Jet-lagged
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 2:51 pm

as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 pm

Jet-lagged wrote:
as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??


Meant bumped cans.....freight. I do t fly SIN often but Iv never been passenger restricted. Now what they did with freight is above my pay grade, but I can tell you we are always at max gross for takeoff.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:13 pm

Pinto wrote:
They were flying a regular 787-9. They only have 2 cpnfigs of the 787-9 , one with the new Polaris and the old however the difference in total seats is under 8 i think. Originally they held seat however the last flew times I looked pre-COVID they weren't holding any.


Reconfiguration, the B788 is 243 seats (up from 219) and the B789 is 257 (up from 252). The range of the B789 is 7635 nmi at 290 passengers (J30Y260, or MF's exact configuration). SFO-SIN is 7345 nmi. I would suspect that BTH and JHB are both filed as alternates, which are each less than 50 nmi from SIN, making it possible. If seats have to be blocked, it would likely be the last row of Y.
 
as739x
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:08 pm

Jet-lagged wrote:
as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??


Sorry, as Critical said, being a widebody obviously bags and most cargo in is loaded in cans, with the exception of the bulk section. It was frequent to bump low priority cargo to get all the revenue passengers onboard.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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Polot
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:30 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
If seats have to be blocked, it would likely be the last row of Y.

When blocking seats it’s not like they are literally blocking rows of seats- they just do not sell to full capacity. Unless weight and balance is an issue (unlikely) it doesn’t matter, and UA doesn’t really care, where in the cabin the empty seats are.

If more revenue seats were sold than capable that day then people will get bumped from the flight if not enough people volunteer to take another flight.
 
CALAV8R
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:41 pm

as739x wrote:
Jet-lagged wrote:
as739x wrote:
Usually with some bummed cans . . .


What are those??


Sorry, as Critical said, being a widebody obviously bags and most cargo in is loaded in cans, with the exception of the bulk section. It was frequent to bump low priority cargo to get all the revenue passengers onboard.


I wonder if the addition of the 2nd SFO-SIN frequency helped with cargo distribution. Every time I've been on either of those flights, it was packed to the gills (pre-COVID) The last time I was on that route was January and it was completely full both directions.
 
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wxman11
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:52 pm

CriticalPoint wrote:

Now what they did with freight is above my pay grade, but I can tell you we are always at max gross for takeoff.


I assume you are a pilot with UA?? Just like pax on an oversold flight who don't get on, the cargo shipments get rerouted onto the same flight the next day or reroutes via a different route/flight. Most times, a cargo shipment for a particular route, like SFO-SIN, if shipment was offloaded due to payload restrction at the last minute, that (i.e AKE, PMC) will be rebooked on same flight for tomorrow and everything else that is originally booked on tomorrow's flight will either be lucky to get on or be on stby. Stby meaning, if there is weight available on flight to take it, then it goes. The decision to determine what gets offloaded from a flight due to payload restriction goes as follows: mail, cargo, pax baggage and finally pax as last resort. Although I will tell you that rebooking cargo shipments, especially if its a split shipment, is a pain in the butt. Its easy to rebook a passenger but harder when it comes to cargo. But at least the good thing about being in cargo when you offload is that cargo doesn't talk back or complaint. Most if not all freight forwarders don't make a big deal if their shipment doesn't make it on the flight provided that there is a good valid reason.
 
as739x
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:27 pm

CALAV8R wrote:
as739x wrote:
Jet-lagged wrote:

What are those??


Sorry, as Critical said, being a widebody obviously bags and most cargo in is loaded in cans, with the exception of the bulk section. It was frequent to bump low priority cargo to get all the revenue passengers onboard.


I wonder if the addition of the 2nd SFO-SIN frequency helped with cargo distribution. Every time I've been on either of those flights, it was packed to the gills (pre-COVID) The last time I was on that route was January and it was completely full both directions.


I found in my time in the SOC that loads on both flights usually mirrored each other by around 20 seats. However, there were certain days of the week when the morning flight would seem to be lighter. I also non-rev on the flight 4-5 times a year and the morning flight would usually be a little easier to get a better seat.

The SIN service has been a great performer for UA no doubt. Yeah January loads were very high, I flew via Australia to get to my usual destination due to both SIN flights being so full.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
77H
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 8:29 pm

wxman11 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Now what they did with freight is above my pay grade, but I can tell you we are always at max gross for takeoff.


I assume you are a pilot with UA?? Just like pax on an oversold flight who don't get on, the cargo shipments get rerouted onto the same flight the next day or reroutes via a different route/flight. Most times, a cargo shipment for a particular route, like SFO-SIN, if shipment was offloaded due to payload restrction at the last minute, that (i.e AKE, PMC) will be rebooked on same flight for tomorrow and everything else that is originally booked on tomorrow's flight will either be lucky to get on or be on stby. Stby meaning, if there is weight available on flight to take it, then it goes. The decision to determine what gets offloaded from a flight due to payload restriction goes as follows: mail, cargo, pax baggage and finally pax as last resort. Although I will tell you that rebooking cargo shipments, especially if its a split shipment, is a pain in the butt. Its easy to rebook a passenger but harder when it comes to cargo. But at least the good thing about being in cargo when you offload is that cargo doesn't talk back or complaint. Most if not all freight forwarders don't make a big deal if their shipment doesn't make it on the flight provided that there is a good valid reason.


The order of accommodation for the cargo pits is as follows: AOG/M, Pax Baggage, Mail, Freight. Freight is always lowest priority unless special agreements are made with the mail team to hold back mail for backlogged freight. Situation usually has to be pretty severe for this to occur.

The physical cargo doesn’t talk back or complain but the shippers sure do. Some freight forwarders are understanding, especially if they are advised in advance that a particular flight regularly takes weight restrictions. Other forwarders can act like the sky is falling. All depends on the people at a given forwarder and what they are shipping.

77H
 
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wxman11
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:18 pm

77H wrote:

The order of accommodation for the cargo pits is as follows: AOG/M, Pax Baggage, Mail, Freight. Freight is always lowest priority unless special agreements are made with the mail team to hold back mail for backlogged freight. Situation usually has to be pretty severe for this to occur.

The physical cargo doesn’t talk back or complain but the shippers sure do. Some freight forwarders are understanding, especially if they are advised in advance that a particular flight regularly takes weight restrictions. Other forwarders can act like the sky is falling. All depends on the people at a given forwarder and what they are shipping.

77H


Yes, cargo has lowest priority however that depends on what is being loaded. Perishable shipments go no matter what (depending how much you have especially if its cherry season) along with AOG parts and prio freight. Dry cargo stays. Mail, we used to carry it but we suspended that service with USPS years back mainly because of the hidden DGs. I don't work for UA but with one of their JV partners, so I guess it depends on the carrier's how they list what get offloaded first.

Yes, its true about the freight forwarders. Most are unstanding while others are a real piece of work. Our sales team are the one who interact with them as we only pass on the info to them. If we know in advance that there will be a payload restriction, of course we coorindate with our sales team but harder when its the last minute. Only 3 times I had to offload cargo at the very last minute (when the caro was already loaded onto the aircraft). Although I don't remember if I had ever offloaded mail, again it was some 5 yrs ago that we suspended that service with USPS.

Any route to SIN is a high yield route, I think. Sometimes if not most times, we have hard time securing space from TYO to SIN.
 
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OneSexyL1011
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Re: Question: UA from SFO-SIN on 787-9

Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:03 pm

SFO-SIN-SFO rarely is weight restricted and we don't block seats from inventory. If for whatever reason it was, freight will be cut to the amount needed. Passengers will be the last thing cut, which has been none to my knowledge. Assuming normal operations of course. (No MEL restrictions, or major reroutes due to volcanos ..etc)

The old LAX-SIN-LAX turn however, was a whole different ballgame.

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