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skystar767
Topic Author
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:11 pm

BA to guyana South America?

Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:42 pm

Looking at Flightradar24 and I see BA 9111 going GEO-LHR. Any idea why?
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:43 pm

More than likely reparation flights and/or oil field workers. There has been quite a few of these flights in the past few weeks. Interesting to see if BA commences regular commercial flights between GEO and the UK once this pandemic is over.
 
davidjohnson6
Posts: 1669
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Re: BA to guyana South America?

Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:59 pm

Very unlikely BA would open a regular scheduled route to Georgetown instead of just the odd charter. BA willbe focussing on reopening routes to N.America and all other suspended route fitst. Port of Spain is good enough as a transfer hub for the demand that exists
 
shamrock321
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Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 7:27 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:14 am

As the first reply says, these are oil worker charters.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1249
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:07 am

The flight brought ExxonMobil workers to GEO. As a matter of interest it was BA's predecessor BOAC which inaugurated flights to Atkinson Field in December 1965, flights were on Saturdays with BA697 getting there via LHR-BDA-ANU-BGI-POS using the 707.
 
caribny
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:36 am

LON GEO only attracts 8k visitors annually. I doubt that the north bound is that much so there will be no scheduled BA service to GEO. though the charters might continue.
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:54 am

caribny wrote:
LON GEO only attracts 8k visitors annually. I doubt that the north bound is that much so there will be no scheduled BA service to GEO. though the charters might continue.


Guyana does have some oil fields with promise. And based on my experience in oilfields across the world, Brits are aplenty.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23456
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:53 am

Privilege Style have also run some charters from GLA on the 767 to Georgetown
 
ZuluTime
Posts: 301
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 6:23 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:46 am

It’s an interesting one and BA did indeed serve GEO at one point with VC10 and latterly 707s. It’s a route where a tag onto a Caribbean service might work but unlikely to be anything more. The airport security status is the greatest concern.
 
Toinou
Posts: 352
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:17 am

It's impressive to see the difference between the three Guyanas in terms of air transport. But if you look at their status and demographics, it's not so weird :
- French Guiana is an oversea département. So, it's fully integrated in the country with many people coming back and forth.
- Surinam has still huge ties with the Netherlands, including language and a diaspora that is equivalent to half the country's population. I don't think there is a lot of tourism but still quite a lot of VFR.
- Guyana has much more ties and diaspora in North America than in the UK.

All that shoes that colonial history is a thing but the evolution since it ended is important too.
 
TC957
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Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:16 am

davidjohnson6 wrote:
Very unlikely BA would open a regular scheduled route to Georgetown instead of just the odd charter. BA willbe focussing on reopening routes to N.America and all other suspended route fitst. Port of Spain is good enough as a transfer hub for the demand that exists

I find it odd that BA will in the short term at least focus on expanding US services when there is a ban on UK / European visitors to the US and ESTA's are revoked.
 
upperdeckfan
Posts: 1087
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 1:59 am

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:49 am

TC957 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Very unlikely BA would open a regular scheduled route to Georgetown instead of just the odd charter. BA willbe focussing on reopening routes to N.America and all other suspended route fitst. Port of Spain is good enough as a transfer hub for the demand that exists

I find it odd that BA will in the short term at least focus on expanding US services when there is a ban on UK / European visitors to the US and ESTA's are revoked.


What do you mean by "ESTA's are revoked"?

AFAIK, EU borders are closed to non-essential travellers from the US and US borders are closed to non-essential travellers from the EU. If you're considered essential traveller (scientist, health care personnel, gov't official, etc) you are allowed entry in both EU and US if you had an ESTA from before covid. That's one of the reasons flights between main hubs at both sides of the pond are running to some extent.

Once the US gets covid spread in check like most of western europe has done, borders will be reopened and ESTA's will still be valid. If the US gov't waives ESTA's on permanent basis, the EU will act with reciprocity.
 
trintocan
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Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:16 am

As mentioned above, BOAC then BA used to serve GEO and did so for many years. They ultimately served it with 747s on runs via POS, BGI and ANU to LHR. They ended service there in 1985. I recall seeing the 747 at GEO back in 1978 when I visited Guyana and later learnt that it was significantly load-restricted owing to GEO's short runway. As for the Dreamliner-operated flight yesterday, that was indeed a charter.

Trintocan.
 
factsonly
Posts: 3191
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:24 am

Toinou wrote:
It's impressive to see the difference between the three Guyanas in terms of air transport. But if you look at their status and demographics, it's not so weird :
- French Guiana is an oversea département. So, it's fully integrated in the country with many people coming back and forth.
- Surinam has still huge ties with the Netherlands, including language and a diaspora that is equivalent to half the country's population. I don't think there is a lot of tourism but still quite a lot of VFR.
- Guyana has much more ties and diaspora in North America than in the UK.

All that shoes that colonial history is a thing but the evolution since it ended is important too.


As reflected in the frequency of scheduled flights pre-COVID:

- Cayenne - Paris = 2x daily= AF daily B773, Air Caraibes daily A350
- Paramaribo - Amsterdam = 10x weekly = Surinam Airways A340 4x weekly, KLM 5x weekly B744, 1x TUI B788
- Georgetown - London = none
 
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ClassicLover
Posts: 5307
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 11:25 am

upperdeckfan wrote:
TC957 wrote:
davidjohnson6 wrote:
Very unlikely BA would open a regular scheduled route to Georgetown instead of just the odd charter. BA willbe focussing on reopening routes to N.America and all other suspended route fitst. Port of Spain is good enough as a transfer hub for the demand that exists

I find it odd that BA will in the short term at least focus on expanding US services when there is a ban on UK / European visitors to the US and ESTA's are revoked.


What do you mean by "ESTA's are revoked"? .


He is correct. A friend of mine has a French Passport and wanted to visit his parents in the USA. When he checked in for his flight on Saturday morning (4th July) he received an e-mail saying his ESTA had been revoked.

He contacted the US Embassy or whatever it was and they said yes, as he was not a US citizen, his ESTA had been revoked due to Corona and he can't travel. He was also advised that it would not affect his re-applying for a new ESTA in future when travel restrictions are restricted.

So yes, they are revoking ESTAs. He had his from 2019.
 
LimaFoxTango
Posts: 1041
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:03 pm

My question is how is this flight crewed. It seems to turn in GEO and returns same day. Clearly outside the duty time requirements for one crew. If the return crew positions in on the aircraft, does the inbound leg counts as rest?
 
caribny
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:31 pm

Antarius wrote:
caribny wrote:
LON GEO only attracts 8k visitors annually. I doubt that the north bound is that much so there will be no scheduled BA service to GEO. though the charters might continue.


Guyana does have some oil fields with promise. And based on my experience in oilfields across the world, Brits are aplenty.



An airline needs a regular flow of travel to justify service. These are "shift changes" not executives, so it doesnt suggest that BA will start service.
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:40 pm

caribny wrote:
Antarius wrote:
caribny wrote:
LON GEO only attracts 8k visitors annually. I doubt that the north bound is that much so there will be no scheduled BA service to GEO. though the charters might continue.


Guyana does have some oil fields with promise. And based on my experience in oilfields across the world, Brits are aplenty.



An airline needs a regular flow of travel to justify service. These are "shift changes" not executives, so it doesnt suggest that BA will start service.


Shift changes that occur regularly. Everyone doesn't rotate on the same day.

I'm not saying it means BA will start service. Just that there is another reason people may travel between the two countries now.
 
caribny
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:47 am

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:42 pm

trintocan wrote:
As mentioned above, BOAC then BA used to serve GEO and did so for many years. They ultimately served it with 747s on runs via POS, BGI and ANU to LHR. They ended service there in 1985. I recall seeing the 747 at GEO back in 1978 when I visited Guyana and later learnt that it was significantly load-restricted owing to GEO's short runway. As for the Dreamliner-operated flight yesterday, that was indeed a charter.

Trintocan.



You mean a 707. No 747 service operated into GEO at that time. This isnt to say that a 747 mightn't have landed on a runway of 7,000 with no room for error, but definitely not on a scheduled basis. As BA began to introduce 747s into the Eastern Caribbean it kept the 707 for days that it operated into GEO. It then decided to end GEO service in 1980, getting feed from GAC 3x weekly via BGI. It was usually 60 intransit passengers per flight, meaning 180 weekly.

Guyanese didn't migrate to the UK in large numbers so the VFR market out of the UK is limited. NYC serves the role for Guyana that Amsterdam does for Suriname, and definitely Paris does for FG. As you know that UK Caribbean population is seeing a weakening VFR as most of this migration ended in the 60s, and virtually ended by th early 70s when secondary migration by the kids ended. UK Guyanese are especially isolated from GEO so the travel numbers are probably even lower than they were in the early 80s. I would imagine that there is more business travel now, as well as some eco/adventure based tourism.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1249
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: BA to guyana South America?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:50 pm

LimaFoxTango wrote:
My question is how is this flight crewed. It seems to turn in GEO and returns same day. Clearly outside the duty time requirements for one crew. If the return crew positions in on the aircraft, does the inbound leg counts as rest?

This is quite routine. The crew that operates the return leg came in on the previous day.

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