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LAXintl
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JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:17 pm

JetBlue today announced it will make LAX its primary base of operations in greater Los Angeles, advancing its focus city strategy and building relevance for the airline in one of the busiest markets in the world.
To enable the shift, the airline will move service currently operated at Long Beach Airport (LGB) to LAX, along with its Long Beach crew and maintenance bases, beginning in October.

Press release:
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=69600

Image

Effective October 7, 2020, JetBlue will operate nonstop service between LAX and seven new markets:
Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (AUS)
Bozeman Yellowstone International Airport (BZN) [seasonal]
Las Vegas McCarran International Airport (LAS)
Reno-Tahoe International Airport (RNO)
Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC)
San Francisco International Airport (SFO)
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA)

New markets will complement existing nonstop service between LAX and:
Boston Logan International Airport (BOS) *MINT*
Buffalo Niagara International Airport (BUF)
Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL) *MINT*
New York John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) *MINT*
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR) *MINT* [Launching July 23]
Orlando International Airport (MCO)

JetBlue’s final day of operations in Long Beach will be October 6.


Good luck to them. LAX while large is certainly a very competitive market, and others wont just stand by and watch B6 as they did with them in LGB.
Last edited by LAXintl on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Varsity1
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:21 pm

I wonder how Jetblue will fair there. LAX is highly competitive.
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Cointrin330
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:23 pm

Makes sense that they're giving up on LGB, since the writing was on the wall there for a while. B6 getting very aggressive with recent moves at EWR, defending BOS, and now shifting LGB to LAX. It makes sense at LAX to some extent, given the US3's collective downsizing, but AA, AS, DL, WN, and UA look to retain their hold on LAX in significant measures, so the question is does LAX need another carrier focused on it, and can the shrunken market support it?
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:28 pm

The news itself is not surprising given what happened last night, but I am surprised by the 70 flight part and also the terminal 5 part. I'm really curious what kind of deals they struck with LAWA to get enough gates for that many flights. Based on JetBlue's gate usage, they'd need 9 to 10 gates to have that level of operation. And before this, they only had 2 gates + access to 4 CUTE gates. My guess is they are advantage of other LCCs moving out of T5 and AA's downsizing at LAX.

This part is sort of surprisng and not reall
With support from Los Angeles World Airports (LAWA), JetBlue plans to embark on a strategic expansion over the next five years with plans to reach roughly 70 flights per day by 2025. This will include multiple new markets, both domestic and international, some of which have never had nonstop service to and from LAX.

I guess they planned something like this at LGB before FIS deal went up in smokes. Probably add some Mexican resorts along with some Central American cities along with transcon to Eastern coast destinations like BDL/PVD/RSW/HPN.
Last edited by tphuang on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Miamiairport
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:28 pm

Seems like B6 really wants to use it's MINT product to duke it out with AA.
 
heretothere
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:32 pm

Well, based on their moves the last few weeks, I think it’s safe to say B6 is not interested in any partnerships with AA, UA, or AS anytime soon...
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:32 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
Makes sense that they're giving up on LGB, since the writing was on the wall there for a while. B6 getting very aggressive with recent moves at EWR, defending BOS, and now shifting LGB to LAX. It makes sense at LAX to some extent, given the US3's collective downsizing, but AA, AS, DL, WN, and UA look to retain their hold on LAX in significant measures, so the question is does LAX need another carrier focused on it, and can the shrunken market support it?


I have to correct you a little here. They are getting aggressive with NY/NJ and LA Area, the 2 largest market in the country.

The byproduct is probably BOS will take longer to grow back.

We predicted this in the JetBlue thread and got attacked by some people. And now it turned out JetBlue's ambitions at EWR/LAX are even larger than we thought. They kind of have the 3 corner strategy worked out now with Northeast/South Florida/LA.

Big question is where are the gates coming from?
 
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janders
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:34 pm

Funny take from Crankyflier

“This is stupid,” Snyder told TPG on Thursday. “It’s smart that they’re finally leaving Long Beach. However, instead they’ve decided to go into one of the most competitive airports in the world on routes where they’ll really add little value and I don’t see how this works.”

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-t ... alignment/

To put it in perspective, 5 airlines already call LAX a hub or focus city. Now add in JetBlue to the mix.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:47 pm

Seventy flights in five years is pretty measured growth. Is that about what AS was offering pre-COVID?

Ten flights/day/gate would not be pushing it. LAX both starts early and goes late, and it's not like they'll be using widebodies.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:47 pm

Sorry this is a bit off topic. B6 announced their future intentions for LAX but I haven’t heard anything for EWR? Has B6 said anything about their future growth there?
Last edited by Nicknuzzii on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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UPlog
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:47 pm

Seems no matter how hard airlines try, all roads in LA lead to LAX where the money and customers are.

Good luck, but suspect it will be brutal with so many overlapping competitors.
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BlueBaller
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:53 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Sorry this is a bit off topic. B6 announced their future intentions for LAX but I haven’t heard anything for EWR? Has B6 said anything about their future growth there?


About 2 weeks ago B6 announced 30 new routes and most of them coming out of EWR beginning this month. Reference the JetBlue Network Thread. There's also a separate thread dedicated to the EWR expansion.
Last edited by BlueBaller on Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm

janders wrote:
Funny take from Crankyflier

“This is stupid,” Snyder told TPG on Thursday. “It’s smart that they’re finally leaving Long Beach. However, instead they’ve decided to go into one of the most competitive airports in the world on routes where they’ll really add little value and I don’t see how this works.”

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-t ... alignment/

To put it in perspective, 5 airlines already call LAX a hub or focus city. Now add in JetBlue to the mix.



5 airlines a few that will look drastically different by the time the Covid situation levels out. AS has been cutting transcons, AA is shrinking at LAX, UA on the verge of a massive downsizing, DL scratching its head on what to do after investing in ventures that have practically gone BK. The timing And situation couldn’t be better For B6 to grab a large amount of gates at LAX. At this point they can basically have the entire MSC terminal. Well done B6..well done!!!!

Overflow can be directed to BUR and ONT.
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tphuang
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:54 pm

Nicknuzzii wrote:
Sorry this is a bit off topic. B6 announced their future intentions for LAX but I haven’t heard anything for EWR? Has B6 said anything about their future growth there?

I wouldn't worried about EWR. They will grow there as much as space allows. They probably got some kind of commitment from LAWA on # of gates they will be able to access. At EWR, they are still fighting to get more space when T1 opens. I expect their EWR operation to be larger than LAX.
 
drdisque
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:58 pm

LAX-HPN couldn't come until they get the CS-300 on property. No way an A320 could get off HPN with a full load and make it to LAX without a stop. It'd be an interesting niche flight if they could pull it off though.

Another interesting idea would be an oddly timed LAX-SWF flight for utilization.

Seasonal LAX-ALB or LAX-PWM would also be interesting possibilities. Although the economics on that would probably be pretty tough.
 
flyby519
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:58 pm

janders wrote:
Funny take from Crankyflier

“This is stupid,” Snyder told TPG on Thursday. “It’s smart that they’re finally leaving Long Beach. However, instead they’ve decided to go into one of the most competitive airports in the world on routes where they’ll really add little value and I don’t see how this works.”

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-t ... alignment/

To put it in perspective, 5 airlines already call LAX a hub or focus city. Now add in JetBlue to the mix.


Would AA/AS/B6 be able to have some sort of comprehensive codeshare partnership to create a less fractured market in these types of competitive cities?
 
speedbird2263
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:59 pm

tphuang wrote:
Cointrin330 wrote:
Makes sense that they're giving up on LGB, since the writing was on the wall there for a while. B6 getting very aggressive with recent moves at EWR, defending BOS, and now shifting LGB to LAX. It makes sense at LAX to some extent, given the US3's collective downsizing, but AA, AS, DL, WN, and UA look to retain their hold on LAX in significant measures, so the question is does LAX need another carrier focused on it, and can the shrunken market support it?


I have to correct you a little here. They are getting aggressive with NY/NJ and LA Area, the 2 largest market in the country.

The byproduct is probably BOS will take longer to grow back.

We predicted this in the JetBlue thread and got attacked by some people. And now it turned out JetBlue's ambitions at EWR/LAX are even larger than we thought. They kind of have the 3 corner strategy worked out now with Northeast/South Florida/LA.

Big question is where are the gates coming from?


Your analysis of over the past few weeks and months has been pretty good and a decent read. Nice work.
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alasizon
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:59 pm

UPlog wrote:
Seems no matter how hard airlines try, all roads in LA lead to LAX where the money and customers are.

Good luck, but suspect it will be brutal with so many overlapping competitors.


The money is in SNA and BUR for domestic travel, they are just space limited. I don't see this though as being any less successful than their existing LGB service. They already were offering these routes from LGB so it isn't as if it is new capacity in the overall LA market.

The gate situation will be interesting to see moving forward.
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nine4nine
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:01 pm

alasizon wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Seems no matter how hard airlines try, all roads in LA lead to LAX where the money and customers are.

Good luck, but suspect it will be brutal with so many overlapping competitors.


The money is in SNA and BUR for domestic travel, they are just space limited. I don't see this though as being any less successful than their existing LGB service. They already were offering these routes from LGB so it isn't as if it is new capacity in the overall LA market.

The gate situation will be interesting to see moving forward.



BUR most likely gets another boost in flights as well and SNA added once the 220 comes online.
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MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:01 pm

UPlog wrote:
Seems no matter how hard airlines try, all roads in LA lead to LAX where the money and customers are.

Good luck, but suspect it will be brutal with so many overlapping competitors.


Slot constraints at LGB and SNA. Short runways at BUR. Ontario is out in Ontario. :shock:

Given the sprawl of SoCal population, a single dominant airport supplemented by multiple 'regional' airports is probably efficient for both carriers and travelers. Fragment passenger counts too much and it impairs destination counts, frequency (reducing hub connectivity), and aircraft size (which is important to CASM).
 
lostsound
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:03 pm

I think the pandemic has poked a lot of holes in the competition while B6 has been handling it decently. It's the perfect time for them to try this! I think the LA creatives market will gravitate to B6 rather quickly if they can get the pricing & marketing campaign right. Their biggest threat is without a doubt WN; as it was at LGB.
 
Insertnamehere
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:04 pm

Not surprising, the little carriers have been able to gobble up a lot of traffic. With the young carriers having lower cost basis and being a lot more nimble than the big 3 they have been able to attract what little amount of passengers were flying.

The big 3 will be losing a lot of passengers and market share to the likes of WN,F9,NK,and B6 as they are able to change much more quickly than your legacies.
 
allegiantflyer
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:38 pm

Great idea in my opinion.

Will be interesting to see how B6 leverages themselves after so far successfully managing to operate during the pandemic in the hardest hit regions where B6 main region of operations are.
They seem to making a lot of power moves as of recent, it would have taken them a decade to make strategic decisions like this and EWR previously.

We all love to see it
 
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OzarkD9S
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:49 pm

Would love to know their planned frequency LAX-SFO. They'll need one gate at LAX almost solely dedicated to SFO to offer any kind of competition.
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Sdmccray1984
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:54 pm

Can someone update me: is jetBlue ultimately moving to the midfield terminal? Where will they get slots for all these extra flights? The remote gates lol? Thanks!
 
departedflights
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:55 pm

tphuang wrote:
The news itself is not surprising given what happened last night.


What happened last night?
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MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:57 pm

Insertnamehere wrote:
Not surprising, the little carriers have been able to gobble up a lot of traffic.


Have they? What do you expect for changes in passenger counts with the earnings releases starting next week?
 
ericm2031
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:02 pm

In a way, it's a pretty low-risk move for them, so it makes sense...yes the competition is brutal, but LGB wasn't working.

Even if some of these routes don't work, they'll still have their existing successful cross-country routes at LAX and not still be dealing with a flailing LGB down the road.
 
HeeseokKoo
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:04 pm

In Sep or Oct, B6 is to operate 24-25 flights ex-LAX. After adding 7 destinations, the number is going only up to 32 per day, which means most will see only one flight per day. That doesn't sound competitive unless frequencies on the existing routes are cut.
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:10 pm

LAXintl wrote:
JetBlue today announced it will make LAX its primary base of operations in greater Los Angeles, advancing its focus city strategy and building relevance for the airline in one of the busiest markets in the world.
To enable the shift, the airline will move service currently operated at Long Beach Airport (LGB) to LAX, along with its Long Beach crew and maintenance bases, beginning in October.

Press release:
http://otp.investis.com/clients/us/jetb ... wsid=69600

Image

Effective October 7, 2020, JetBlue will operate nonstop service between LAX and seven new markets:
Austin-Bergstrom International Airport (AUS)
Bozeman Yellowstone International Airport (BZN) [seasonal]
Las Vegas McCarran International Airport (LAS)
Reno-Tahoe International Airport (RNO)
Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC)
San Francisco International Airport (SFO)
Seattle-Tacoma International Airport (SEA)

New markets will complement existing nonstop service between LAX and:
Boston Logan International Airport (BOS) *MINT*
Buffalo Niagara International Airport (BUF)
Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport (FLL) *MINT*
New York John F. Kennedy International Airport (JFK) *MINT*
Newark Liberty International Airport (EWR) *MINT* [Launching July 23]
Orlando International Airport (MCO)

JetBlue’s final day of operations in Long Beach will be October 6.


Good luck to them. LAX while large is certainly a very competitive market, and others wont just stand by and watch B6 as they did with them in LGB.

I think it was 18 months or so ago I said this was writing on the wall. COVID accelerated it.
 
catiii
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:11 pm

Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Can someone update me: is jetBlue ultimately moving to the midfield terminal? Where will they get slots for all these extra flights? The remote gates lol? Thanks!


No, not moving to the midfield or remote gates. Announced internally.
 
catiii
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:12 pm

departedflights wrote:
tphuang wrote:
The news itself is not surprising given what happened last night.


What happened last night?


Yeah, what happened last night?
 
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enilria
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:12 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
I wonder how Jetblue will fair there. LAX is highly competitive.

Much less so now, but a valid question. The good news is that this increases their overlap with AS which makes a merger harder, though, not impossible.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:14 pm

I wonder with B6 moving to LAX if they lose their appeal that they had with LGB. I know many people liked flying them from SLC to LGB because it was easier to use and closer to Orange County, Disneyland, the beaches down there, etc., than LAX. It will be interesting to see if passengers will still use B6 as much.
 
iflykpdx
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:35 pm

UPlog wrote:
Seems no matter how hard airlines try, all roads in LA lead to LAX where the money and customers are.

Good luck, but suspect it will be brutal with so many overlapping competitors.


Similar, if not identical situation with SFO in the Bay Area.
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vikkyvik
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:38 pm

Got the email from B6 an hour ago. Cried a bit. :cry2:

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I wonder with B6 moving to LAX if they lose their appeal that they had with LGB.


Speaking for myself and my wife, a LOT of the appeal is lost. I love flying B6, and I love flying out of LGB, in approximately equal measure. So now the question is: start flying another airline, or suck it up and deal with LAX?
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tphuang
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:39 pm

catiii wrote:
departedflights wrote:
tphuang wrote:
The news itself is not surprising given what happened last night.


What happened last night?


Yeah, what happened last night?


Just that people were saying there is a meeting at LGB. So pretty obvious this was going to happen.

catiii wrote:
Sdmccray1984 wrote:
Can someone update me: is jetBlue ultimately moving to the midfield terminal? Where will they get slots for all these extra flights? The remote gates lol? Thanks!


No, not moving to the midfield or remote gates. Announced internally.


That's the curious part. It seems the best case scenario for them is to stay in T5 to be competitive with big 4 + AS, rather than be in a far off terminal. But if they stay in T5, then that would basically mean the other ULCCs are moving out and AA is not getting more gates. I had a theory that AA will be a lot smaller at LAX and that will enable B6 to add gates there.

If that's the case, then one has to congratulate JetBlue management in their negotiations with LAWA.

enilria wrote:
I think it was 18 months or so ago I said this was writing on the wall. COVID accelerated it.

I think we all figured they will consolidate at LAX, but did anyone really see them getting enough gates for 70 flights and not have to move to MSC?

I don't see how that's possible without LAWA. They must be getting more gates due to shrinking AA or UA footprint. If they are staying in T5, then AA taking over T4/5 isn't happening. I think T5 had 4 gates for AA + 9 gates for everyone else and they were building 2 more gates. Looks like AA isn't getting any more gate if this is happening.

Funny how they now basically got what they wanted in the VX deal and didn't have to spend $2.6 billion for it. If they get a couple of more gates at SFO, then COVID has given them everything they needed basically.

HeeseokKoo wrote:
In Sep or Oct, B6 is to operate 24-25 flights ex-LAX. After adding 7 destinations, the number is going only up to 32 per day, which means most will see only one flight per day. That doesn't sound competitive unless frequencies on the existing routes are cut.

With COVID, they are not going to be operating the full mint schedule. Most likely you will see something like this.
8x JFK
3x EWR
4x BOS
4x FLL
1x MCO
1x BUF
2x SFO
3x SLC
2x LAS
1x AUS
1x RNO
2x SEA

OzarkD9S wrote:
Would love to know their planned frequency LAX-SFO. They'll need one gate at LAX almost solely dedicated to SFO to offer any kind of competition.

Well the business demand is not back anytime soon. At some point, I'd imagine they need to go to at least 5 to 6x on LAX-SFO if they are building a 70 flight station.

Also, they need to secure more gate space at SFO.
 
GVZZZ
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:40 pm

I think jetBlue will appeal to a certain customer group in the way Virgin America did - young brand, not one of the old guard and not an overly 'low cost' airline. Just hope they find more passengers than Virgin America did though - lovely aeroplanes but in my experience not full!
 
catiii
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:48 pm

GVZZZ wrote:
Just hope they find more passengers than Virgin America did though - lovely aeroplanes but in my experience not full!


VA was 65 or so airplanes and what, 30 cities? JetBlue is orders of magnitude bigger, has an extremely profitable and well known TCON franchise and brand, and a fleet size (assuming the E190s retire) that will be well into the 300s in terms of numbers. Not sure what flights you were on but pre-Covid, were averaging system LF in the high 80s/low 90s percent.

The comparisons between JetBlue and VA start and end with the cool brand and Airbus.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:02 pm

catiii wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
Just hope they find more passengers than Virgin America did though - lovely aeroplanes but in my experience not full!


VA was 65 or so airplanes and what, 30 cities? JetBlue is orders of magnitude bigger, has an extremely profitable and well known TCON franchise and brand, and a fleet size (assuming the E190s retire) that will be well into the 300s in terms of numbers. Not sure what flights you were on but pre-Covid, were averaging system LF in the high 80s/low 90s percent.

The comparisons between JetBlue and VA start and end with the cool brand and Airbus.


Not on the West Coast, they don't. VX had a West Coast flight count significantly larger than what B6 even contemplates for 2025. B6 is aiming to be #5 or #6 at LAX. That is not obviously a profitable franchise.
 
HNLSLCPDX
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:04 pm

I definitely think B6 has an opportunity to capture the niche market that Virgin America offered but I think the timing right now to do it is bad because they need more places from LAX. I think adding more places from LAX such as ATL, Hawaii, TPA, BNA, PVR, and SJD could definitely help though. Crazy as it sounds I still believe that B6 could add some p2p from SFO as well to capture that niche market that VX has at SFO and to grow the West Coast. Would love to see B6 do SFO-SAN/LAS/SLC/AUS/BZN.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:10 pm

I can't get a straight answer, will LGB continue to be a blue city or will it have zero flights going forward?

edit: well last day of operations at LGB is early Oct so I guess that means ZERO flights? sad, did not see that coming. Why keep token flights out of BUR and ONT but not LGB?
 
gregn21
Posts: 276
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:27 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:18 pm

B6 taking advantage of COVID related drawbacks at LAX just like they took initially advantage of banked schedules and 9/11 at JFK in 200-2002. Not saying they're going to have JFK level success out west, but it is an awfully similar situation. Look for major capitalization on thinner transcon routes as well as leisure markets in Mexico, Latam, and maybe an expanded agreement with HA. Could really be a mirror image of JFK ops if things work out right and legacies suffer at LAX as much as everyone seems to think they will.

Plus, all in all a very low risk move considering the full slate of new service has been and is already offered from LGB. Would be virtually impossible to do worse with that service from LAX than LGB. If it doesn't work out, they can exit the new LAX markets with their pre-expansion transcon profile intact plus maybe a few more high yield routes from the new additions. Hardly any room for them to lose out compared to a continued split station operation over the next few quarters.

I can't imagine T5 is a serious long term solution gate wise. Whether or not they'll maintain pre-COVID operations in the near future, there's no way AA will let LAWA give T5 gates to someone else, especially once the Eagle's nest is removed (should be in the next couple years now...sigh). MSC is the most obvious placement for B6 moving forward and I can't imagine they end up anywhere else if a 70 flight per day schedule actually materializes.

And one crazy anecdote from this situation - As it stands, B6 has potentially acquired more LAX gates on its own (certainly more than AS got) than it would have in a hypothetical VX merger a few years back. Without forking over $2.6B.
 
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airportugal310
Posts: 3628
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2004 12:49 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:21 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I think adding more places from LAX such as ATL, Hawaii, TPA, BNA, PVR, and SJD could definitely help though.


Yes, because adding in more flights to places where there are already plenty of entrenched carriers is a winning recipe for success
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
alasizon
Posts: 2577
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:23 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
I can't get a straight answer, will LGB continue to be a blue city or will it have zero flights going forward?

edit: well last day of operations at LGB is early Oct so I guess that means ZERO flights? sad, did not see that coming. Why keep token flights out of BUR and ONT but not LGB?


BUR and ONT serve different catchment areas of the LA area while LGB overlaps quite massively with LAX.

More people from Ventura County, the Santa Clarita Valley and High Desert are willing to pay to fly from BUR as opposed to having to drive to LAX. Same thing for the Inland Empire and ONT.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
11C
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:31 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
catiii wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
Just hope they find more passengers than Virgin America did though - lovely aeroplanes but in my experience not full!


VA was 65 or so airplanes and what, 30 cities? JetBlue is orders of magnitude bigger, has an extremely profitable and well known TCON franchise and brand, and a fleet size (assuming the E190s retire) that will be well into the 300s in terms of numbers. Not sure what flights you were on but pre-Covid, were averaging system LF in the high 80s/low 90s percent.

The comparisons between JetBlue and VA start and end with the cool brand and Airbus.


Not on the West Coast, they don't. VX had a West Coast flight count significantly larger than what B6 even contemplates for 2025. B6 is aiming to be #5 or #6 at LAX. That is not obviously a profitable franchise.


I don’t get the continued reference to the size of the LAX operation, and how it relates to profitability. In LGB JetBlue lost money on each departure, where it at one time controlled most of the slots. In LAX, each departure generates a sizable profit, in spite of representing very little market share. So does JetBlue need to dominate LAX to make money? No, it won’t ever represent a very large percentage of the market share, but it has been able to generate profits there.
 
11C
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:32 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
catiii wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
Just hope they find more passengers than Virgin America did though - lovely aeroplanes but in my experience not full!


VA was 65 or so airplanes and what, 30 cities? JetBlue is orders of magnitude bigger, has an extremely profitable and well known TCON franchise and brand, and a fleet size (assuming the E190s retire) that will be well into the 300s in terms of numbers. Not sure what flights you were on but pre-Covid, were averaging system LF in the high 80s/low 90s percent.

The comparisons between JetBlue and VA start and end with the cool brand and Airbus.


Not on the West Coast, they don't. VX had a West Coast flight count significantly larger than what B6 even contemplates for 2025. B6 is aiming to be #5 or #6 at LAX. That is not obviously a profitable franchise.


I don’t get the continued reference to the size of the LAX operation, and how it relates to profitability. In LGB JetBlue lost money on each departure, where it at one time controlled most of the slots. In LAX, each departure generates a sizable profit, in spite of representing very little market share. So does JetBlue need to dominate LAX to make money? No, it won’t ever represent a very large percentage of the market share, but it has been able to generate profits there.
 
nine4nine
Posts: 606
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:44 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:33 pm

alasizon wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
I can't get a straight answer, will LGB continue to be a blue city or will it have zero flights going forward?

edit: well last day of operations at LGB is early Oct so I guess that means ZERO flights? sad, did not see that coming. Why keep token flights out of BUR and ONT but not LGB?


BUR and ONT serve different catchment areas of the LA area while LGB overlaps quite massively with LAX.

More people from Ventura County, the Santa Clarita Valley and High Desert are willing to pay to fly from BUR as opposed to having to drive to LAX. Same thing for the Inland Empire and ONT.


Add to that BUR is one of their most consistent highest yielding stations.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 691
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:33 pm

LAX can be a MINT crew base now too, which will help operations and costs.
 
11C
Posts: 151
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:37 pm

airportugal310 wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
I think adding more places from LAX such as ATL, Hawaii, TPA, BNA, PVR, and SJD could definitely help though.


Yes, because adding in more flights to places where there are already plenty of entrenched carriers is a winning recipe for success


Sure, it can be if your costs are lower.
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