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majano
Posts: 272
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 10:45 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:25 pm

ShinyAndChrome wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
I wonder how Jetblue will fair there. LAX is highly competitive.

IMO they should've just sucked it up and outbid AS for VX. SFO is a better fit for them.


To be fair, AS had the deeper pockets and the better credit. If there was at least a shred of truth in what AS management said about the value of the VX acquisition and how important is was for their future, I don't think B6 outbidding them was a possibility.

And I'd argue the opposite point re: LAX vs SFO for B6. In SFO, UA's existing brand awareness and network strength create hefty economies of scale in terms of retaining passengers. LAX's fragmentation arguably works to the benefit of upstarts, who will have a larger pool of more brand-agnostic customers to tap into.

Very apt analysis!
 
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Midwestindy
Posts: 5249
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:57 pm

klkla wrote:
nine4nine wrote:
airportugal310 wrote:
From the LGB Airport Instagram page (and maybe its on Facebook too...)

Statement from Long Beach Airport Director Cynthia Guidry on today's @jetblue announcement:

“We will always be grateful for the investment JetBlue made in our community and the tremendous service they offered our passengers. We understand that the aviation industry – now more than ever – is constantly changing and airlines nationwide are making difficult business decisions to stay competitive in light of the pandemic. We expect strong interest in the slots as they become available.”



Lol. Deflect...!..Deflect....!!!! What they meant to say was.... “In light of our unfriendly community and non-business friendly policies adapted by the inept mongoloids on our City Council and the Knuckleheads at the Airport Authority, we’ve made an environment that is unsustainable for any airline to make money much less a fortress operation. With the loss of JetBlue, we look forward to eventually returning to the Long Beach Airport of the past catering to short lived public charter carriers.”


LOL... In a couple years SWA will have a larger successful operation at LGB thanks to JetBlue leaving the airport. I'm not saying it was a bad move on their part to leave, but to assume that Long Beach won't be able to replace them is not realistic.

What they meant to say was, "Don't let the door hit you on the way out."


How much does WN actually care about LGB? It's a tiny airport for them, probably the 5th largest airport for them in the LA area alone...
Tack wrote:
MrPeanut wrote:
Tack wrote:

Not entirely true. While at AS our Corp sales force fell over themselves to land any corporate account they could. The quest for those contracts drove our partner search both internationally and domestically. Further, that quest helped push new cities into the spotlight for AS service. Corporate contracts are more than overstated. The domestic connectivity of the AS/AA WCIA and it’s full OW membership are being driven, due in no small part, by a need to offer global flights to help land those ‘overstated’ contracts. This will be an issue for B6.


Well of course your sales people would fall over themselves. They are paid based on quota. So anytime they get a sale (in this case new corporate contract), it is a time for them to celebrate. I would fully expect that.

However, I am just telling you that these contracts have very little teeth to them. Therefore, signing a contract is one thing, actually getting the revenue out of those contracts is another. The non-exclusivity and/or very low spend commitments (unless on specific long distance flights), don't provide the value that is touted.

Like I said, they provide some value in terms of revenue commitment, but their low commitment levels and non-exclusivity rarely means significant incremental benefit to the airline. Another way to look at it is how many of those employees would have flown that specific airline regardless of contract? Most have already made their minds up on preferred carrier (or preferred carrier for a specific route), so the corporate contract does little to get the airline incremental revenue. The only possible exception is if a contract has a high spend commitment. However, most companies do not agree to high spend commitments due to risk and because they want to give their employees options.


Not sure what your background is but what your saying isn’t the least bit inline with how AS and many airlines view these contracts. They absolutely push a big amount of money to the carrier and build loyalty. Through a myriad of revenue channels. I appreciate your take, but it’s just that, a take or view. Airlines want and need corporate revenue and build their networks to accommodate the higher value customer that they bring. I’ll admit my saying that they’re everything was indeed overstated. But you’re far too discounting of their value. I’ll go out on a limb and say that was a missing piece for B6 while hubbing in LGB.
Cheers!


I can vouch for this, I work/worked for a couple of the major corporate travel spenders & have done internal projects related to corporate travel, and airlines put in a lot of work to win our $150M+ in airline spending a year (large majority in Business/First class). Examples: Complimentary Platinum status for a year, 25% off airline vacation packages, deep discounts for First class, e.t.c

Exclusivity is largely enforced on specifically negotiated routes, but even though we are Northeast based, B6 can't really compete for our business since they really only offer First/Business on TCONs & have abysmal network coverage outside of the northeast

There is a long list of cities/routes added by airlines that were specifically added for specific corporate contracts, so they are important to airlines bottom line in normal times.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
GSP psgr
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 7:09 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:57 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Agree. If B6 goes into Hawaii I think the codeshare agreement with HA is toast. Imagine AA, AS, DL, HA, SY, UA, and WN all on that, add B6 and full on Hawaii fare war.

Would be nice to see B6 go into Central America from LAX and add GUA, SAL, and SJO. They would have O&D to help as well as some connecting options now.


I don't think they risk the HA agreement. B6 has a good thing going there. Maybe we see something like a single daily LAX-HNL to show the flag or something, but not beyond that. Being able to fill seats on routes like BUF-LAX by feeding HA will be a nice slice of traffic for them. Maybe if another set of HND allocations come open in the future there could even be some sort of JV on a LAX-HND operation, with B6 feeding a daily 330.

That said, I'd expect B6 to fly pretty much everywhere else with a beach. LAX-SJD/PVR/MZT/LIR/CUN/CZM seems exactly like B6's wheelhouse. If the logistics work, maybe also some long Carribbean stuff like SJU, MBJ, CTG, and PUJ as well. Also wouldn't be surprised to see a LAX-ANC as a sort of premium leisure route. They could do the Western ski resorts in the winter as well; JAC, EGE, HDN, MTJ-stuff that isn't in WN's wheelhouse either.
 
Blueknows
Posts: 414
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:38 pm

B6 expanding EWR,PHL,LAX,MCO,FLL(transcon). They are looking to become the premium transcontinental airline. They also are going to add PVR & SJD(was supposed to be LGB until they shot down INTL)
They want to force UA to spend money in EWR. DL is pulling SEA hub, and moving to MIA to build hub to Latin America with LATAM. America is dehubing LAX & moving flight to SEA. They are wrapping up with AS in codeshare to have them cover west coast for them. UA is going to be interesting to watch. B6 is not looking to codeshare AA/AS. On multiple calls they’ve mentioned how it’s to expensive and give to
Much revenue away. B6 will add LAX-HNL...question is HA...can’t wait to see how this plays out
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 8012
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:42 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Would be nice to see B6 go into Central America from LAX and add GUA, SAL, and SJO. They would have O&D to help as well as some connecting options now.



Even AA hasn't been strong from LAX to Central America. (I don't know if AA & DL are still showing full 2019 route maps to Central America, or what date range is applicable.)

As for the OP's topic, this is a step in a very long process of B6 becoming a national airline instead of an East Coast + Caribbean airline. The parallel is AS a decade+ ago thinking that it needed to do more than Seattle and Anchorage, adding extensive West Coast - Hawaii services, then incrementally SEA-BOS/IAD/BWI/DTW, etc. B6 needs LAX, to be relevant to a lot of NYC, BOS and FLL traffic. It needs to offer meaningful levels of service (not just NYC/BOS) to the top ~20 markets to be a national carrier. Seventy flights is barely a ripple in a market the size of LAX (avg ~1,800 flights/day pre-COVID if my interpretation of LAWA data is right), but they need to start. Services to LGB never could have done what B6 needs done in the market.

There aren't too many city pairs/airport pairs in the U.S. that can handle six or seven (or eight!) carriers with frequent service and acceptable-to-carrier avg fares. The probability of ugly fare wars is high. Good for LAX consumers.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:04 pm

Interesting additions by B6.. I have to applaud their move, given the current environment, the EWR additions along with this move to LAX and desire to grow to 70 flights is a bold new strategy for them. Hopefully this starts paying dividends for them out the gate. This strategy is divergent though from their previous, more conservative growth mode, so it will be interesting to see how things play out and how hard they fight.

These aggressive new moves create some implications that I think people are overlooking or choosing to dismiss and being too bullish about... All of this newly announced growth will redistribute assets from more impacted markets (particularly BOS, where business travel demand is currently low, JFK and FLL- due to new outbreaks).. What happens when demand comes back to these markets (and it will), and B6 is in a position where they will have to add flights back or risk ceding ground to other carriers. How will B6 balance that with maintaining this new growth in EWR, LAX, PHL, FL markets, etc. Can they defend these new growth centers while having to add flights back at JFK and BOS?

Also, this new growth is surely going to rustle feathers with other carriers. The additions of JFK-DTW, JFK-MSP will surely piss DL off, the EWR adds will piss off UA (especially where EWR-SFO and EWR-LAX are premium TCON and hub to hub routes). The PHL additions will not make AA happy, and now all these LAX adds will not go unnoticed by the other carriers. I notice a lot of posters are saying other carriers are not currently in a position to fight B6 given the environment, and I agree with that. I think B6 was patient and timed their ambitious growth moves perfectly. But at the same time, I think it's naive to think that B6 will not experience any retaliation given some of these major adds in fortress hubs and highly profitable routes and hub to hub routes. My questions is, if that happens and B6 decides to stick it out and fight, how will they deal with fighting for this new growth in EWR and LAX while also trying to realize previously announced growth objectives (flights to Europe, BOS 200, FLL 140, MCO 100) and possibly a resumption of the battle with DL at BOS? Do they have enough resources to take all of those on simultaneously? While I applaud their moves for finally being bold enough to expand aggressively, I think they also risk having to put out too many fires if things heat up.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:10 pm

For all these new MINT flights out of EWR and LAX.... Where are these planes coming from to fuel this new MINT growth? Do they have more MINT configured aircraft on order?- I haven't seen anything about that. If they don't have more on order, they can't add new flights without taking away from somewhere else... Something is going to have to give.
 
EADSYABSOB73857
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:35 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:13 pm

I agree that they need to add intra-west coast/regional markets out of LAX to become more relevant on the West Coast, but if they run 6-8 daily on LAX-SFO, UA will absolutely respond, especially given all the EWR growth on top of that. If they add HI flying on top of that, things will definitely heat up.
 
catiii
Posts: 3577
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:23 pm

Blueknows wrote:
B6 expanding EWR,PHL,LAX,MCO,FLL(transcon). They are looking to become the premium transcontinental airline. They also are going to add PVR & SJD(was supposed to be LGB until they shot down INTL)
They want to force UA to spend money in EWR. DL is pulling SEA hub, and moving to MIA to build hub to Latin America with LATAM. America is dehubing LAX & moving flight to SEA. They are wrapping up with AS in codeshare to have them cover west coast for them. UA is going to be interesting to watch. B6 is not looking to codeshare AA/AS. On multiple calls they’ve mentioned how it’s to expensive and give to
Much revenue away. B6 will add LAX-HNL...question is HA...can’t wait to see how this plays out


Most of this is inaccurate. To wit: There is no plan to add Mexico beach destinations in the next 5 years. DL is not pulling down SEA to hub Miami.
 
jplatts
Posts: 3600
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:25 pm

WN will still have an advantage over B6 at LAX, even with B6 moving its LGB focus city over to LAX, due to WN still having nonstop service out of LAX to a few destinations not currently served by B6 such as ELP, MCI, STL, SAT, and TUS and WN still offering connections from LAX to other domestic destinations not served by B6.
 
wv399
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:32 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:35 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
wv399 wrote:
MDGLongBeach wrote:
JetBlue established itself at Long Beach in the SoCal market, and a lot of it's customers used the airline because of the LGB convenience. B6, being a new player in the LAX world, is going to have a very hard time competing with long time and well established airlines like ASA, US3 etc considering B6 no longer has the upper edge on convenience, as is now mixing itself into a pool with lots of other airlines providing (arguably) a little bit better of a service. All I've seen on LGB's socials, private groups, and some public domains, is people complaining they'll never fly B6 again now that they don't fly out of LGB. I'm not necessarily saying that it was a bad business decision in a way, but now B6 has a hole to dig themselves out of, and quite honestly I don't see them lasting at LAX very long unless they can manage a merge with AS.

I agree that B6, as many people here would agree, would've been in a better spot having merged with VX. Now they've been more or less forced to throw themselves into a difficult market with no real local support or dedicated customer base. AS could use this opportunity to merge with B6 and expand their east coast network to compliment their strong west coast network .


JetBlue is not new to LAX, and it competes quite successfully on product, service, and best of all profit; with the US3, AS, and WN. Actually, serving LGB for as long as it did WAS the hole it had dug itself into. The only reason they served LGB is because there was no space at LAX. No matter how many, or how few flights, the low-yielding LGB operation was plagued by losses. So finally leaving was a great business decision. It has left behind its worst performer, to strengthen one of its most profitable, and it doesn’t need a merger to do that. Virgin America is a $2.5 billion bullet that was dodged.


Operating a niche premium Transcon operation is a whole different story than having a base at a LAX. B6 will find a very different competitive environment and reaction to their product differetiation on short haul and midcons from LAX.


True, but the premium heavy traffic from LAX will allow them to compete in a way they never could from LGB.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3787
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:44 pm

wv399 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
wv399 wrote:

JetBlue is not new to LAX, and it competes quite successfully on product, service, and best of all profit; with the US3, AS, and WN. Actually, serving LGB for as long as it did WAS the hole it had dug itself into. The only reason they served LGB is because there was no space at LAX. No matter how many, or how few flights, the low-yielding LGB operation was plagued by losses. So finally leaving was a great business decision. It has left behind its worst performer, to strengthen one of its most profitable, and it doesn’t need a merger to do that. Virgin America is a $2.5 billion bullet that was dodged.


Operating a niche premium Transcon operation is a whole different story than having a base at a LAX. B6 will find a very different competitive environment and reaction to their product differetiation on short haul and midcons from LAX.


True, but the premium heavy traffic from LAX will allow them to compete in a way they never could from LGB.


I don't see B6 attracting much of that premium traffic outside of MINT. Their network is too limited for business travelers to make that commitment.
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:48 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Without a hub west of MCO or FLL, they're going to be hard-pressed to capture much loyalty from passengers in the L.A. Basin who need more than transcons with lie-flat seats, especially if they have a limited network from LAX. Trying to compete in LAX-SFO with two daily flights would be like trying to compete in BOS-LGA with two daily flights. LAX is the place they need to be if they want to be relevant in L.A., but they're going to have to eat losses for years just as VX did.


This is the problem. I get that B6 wants to make LAX a thing. However, they haven't been successful at gaining critical mass outside of BOS, JFK, FLL, and MCO. Mint might be a fine product. They make money on it. It doesn't do anything for the corporate traveler that does business outside their areas of strength. I'm not saying B6 is a bad airline. They do what they do quite well. I just don't think they're going to somehow steal the transcon market from UA/DL/AA. The occasional traveler or the traveler that only needs to go where B6 flies might enjoy Mint or the B6 economy product. When someone needs to go to New York this week, Houston next week, and Kansas City the week after that, the traveler is going to go with the airline that gets them all the places they need to go. That isn't B6.

If they want to be a player at LAX they're going to have to be committed financially. Competing with the big 3 and WN isn't going to be easy. WN owns the intra-California market between the major cities (they have a loyal customer base that they serve quite well) and UA flies to almost every single air strip with a terminal from either SFO and/or LAX. The LA - NY transcon routes are hub to hub for UA and DL. AA isn't as strong on the NY end but they have very lucrative corporate contracts. Then there's the fact that other than Mint, B6 is an all economy (albeit good economy) operation. That can be a turn off for some travelers. For those that aren't, they'll have to go up against the airline that does all economy better than anyone else on the planet, especially when we're talking financial returns.

To be clear, I'm not saying B6 can't do this. I'm saying its going to be very expensive and resource intensive. They're backed into a corner after loosing the VX deal. They feel the need to do something. VX was basically B6 west. They weren't able to achieve the same success that B6 has on the east coast. Partly because (other than SFO) the west coast market is much more fragmented and competitive. WN plays a much bigger role in major west coast markets than they do in major east coast markets. You also have a very established "regional" legacy (AS) that does quite well up and down the west coast. Add to that, no airline has ever been able to make a "barbell" route structure work long terms (US tried it twice, first with PS which they abandoned, then with HP which resulted in an AA merger) We'll see if they have the resources to see this thing through while trying to grow/defend EWR, BOS, JFK during an unprecedented era of depressed travel demand.
 
evank516
Posts: 2138
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:31 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
The occasional traveler or the traveler that only needs to go where B6 flies might enjoy Mint or the B6 economy product. When someone needs to go to New York this week, Houston next week, and Kansas City the week after that, the traveler is going to go with the airline that gets them all the places they need to go. That isn't B6.


I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment right here. The frequent traveler or frequent business traveler is likely to be loyal to one, maybe two airlines. That airline is picked based on whether or not they fly everywhere the traveler needs to go. I'm in the middle of starting up my own business and most of my travel takes me to the midwest, maybe sometimes to Florida, and potentially the west coast in the future (but not LAX). I'm based in New York. A traveler like myself who might need to be in Madison one week, Chicago three weeks later, Orlando a few weeks after that, and then Kansas City (where I might have a small office for purposes of my corporation) isn't going to choose an airline like B6. You'll see me on DL, AA, or (wow almost said US), UA. Considering my proximity to JFK and LGA, the winner here is DL.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2710
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:40 pm

I wish B6 all the luck in the world.

But I have read all the posts in this thread.

Most posts assume we're in normal times. There is this thing called COVid 19 depressing traffic.

UA is only going 3x today from EWR to LAX for a reason.

Is B6 in a better position than their competitors in terms of cash position?

When things get back to normal competitors will respond.

B6 should attack all the competitors from LAX if they want to be serious: IAH, DEN, ATL, ORD, CLT, DFW, MSP. All of them. That I would like to see. Not RNO or BZN.

Launching more LAX-EWR on B6 is not impressive. UA can retaliate when they can and choose to. UA has hubs both ends.

Don't forget this airline actually flew LGA-RDU. They can do something on a grander scale.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3787
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:40 pm

evank516 wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
The occasional traveler or the traveler that only needs to go where B6 flies might enjoy Mint or the B6 economy product. When someone needs to go to New York this week, Houston next week, and Kansas City the week after that, the traveler is going to go with the airline that gets them all the places they need to go. That isn't B6.


I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment right here. The frequent traveler or frequent business traveler is likely to be loyal to one, maybe two airlines. That airline is picked based on whether or not they fly everywhere the traveler needs to go. I'm in the middle of starting up my own business and most of my travel takes me to the midwest, maybe sometimes to Florida, and potentially the west coast in the future (but not LAX). I'm based in New York. A traveler like myself who might need to be in Madison one week, Chicago three weeks later, Orlando a few weeks after that, and then Kansas City (where I might have a small office for purposes of my corporation) isn't going to choose an airline like B6. You'll see me on DL, AA, or (wow almost said US), UA. Considering my proximity to JFK and LGA, the winner here is DL.


B6 won't just not fly from LAX to many major cities, they won't be able to get west-coast pax to major cities like Chicago, Atlanta and Houston even with a connection. Alot of people are just drinking the blue kool-aid on the odds of this expansion being successful.
 
trueblew
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
catiii wrote:
I think you'll see more Mint expansion out of LAX to markets it does and does not already serve, including markets that JetBlue doesn't already serve. I think the 220s, when they get a critical mass, will allow them to launch TCON expansion into a host of markets that can't support Mint but could support TCON service to LAX. The will free up 320s to come back east and replace some of the 190 flying out of BOS. The fleet mix of low density and high density 321s, plus ETOPS coming on line, will open up options to Hawaii and north and south of the border.

The problem is that they are only taking 5 non-LR A321NEOs in 2021/2022. Mint is needed to expand their profile in EWR and LAX. All the A321NEOS they've taken so far this year looks to be 200 all-core config. I hope we will hear more from JetBlue management in Q2 on how they are going to proceed with mint.


I've wondered how that will play out as well. It seems all the scheduled deliveries are 200-seat, but there are four 321s sitting in TPA (I believe) with Thomas Cook interiors that need to be converted to B6-spec. Maybe they could make these Mint.
 
Tack
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:52 pm

[quote="tphuang"] Yet, Mint somehow generated higher yield on NYC-LAX than UA and the most profitable part of their network after NYC VFR flights.

Mint had better generate higher yield. B6 has a lower cost structure. My point is while it’s a fine product, it’s never going to be that valuable to those businesses that need a complete domestic and international network. B6 will find LAX a lot more profitable than LGB ever was. And I believe they’ll do ok or even good there. But they’re also going to have to find ways to beef up their network if they hope to be a major player in Los Angeles. Mint, alone won’t get em there. WN knows this. They are all network and frequency.
Last edited by Tack on Sat Jul 11, 2020 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
phllax
Posts: 599
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:25 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If we remove NK's fare data on PHL-LAX and put premium product on there, would that make it more competitive to BOS in fare/demand level? I do think IAD-LAX makes more sense than PHL


It certainly doesn't make PHL more competitive on a demand level. Comparing airport pairs in 2019Q2, excluding NK, LAX-PHL is at about 1100 PDEW; LAX-BOS is a bit under 1900. If you just remove NK's fare data the average LAX-PHL fare moves above LAX-BOS by about 3% -- but we'd expect LAX-BOS fares to be pretty competitive with five carriers operating non-stop. Yields for LAX-PHL are worse than LAX-TPA, even. The only worse transcon markets from LAX I see are to BWI and MCO.


You also have to note that NK's LAX-PHL flight was NOT a red-eye for most of its existence, which says a lot considering most of their long-haul operation are red-eyes. DL also tried their hand, but as a red-eye and a 6 am departure West it failed. I am convinced had it been daylight and a slightly later morning departure or evening, it would have worked. VX was successful until fuel spiked due to the product being so much better than US. While there were 2-3 red-eyes daily at times, as it's obvious that the O/D on this route prefers to fly East during the day, even if it means a 11pm-12am arrival in PHL. As someone who flies this route frequently, I am in this camp.
 
hpff
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:20 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:47 pm

It looks as if AUS, LAS, RNO, SLC, SFO, and SEA are the only markets moving from LGB to LAX, everything else was already at LAX, is this correct? If LAX is already working on the transcons+Bozeman, then this shouldn't be that big of a deal. Looks like JetBlue loses PDX and SMF service to Los Angeles.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1962
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:07 pm

My view on The PR spin is we're leaving Long Beach for LAX to grow it's west coast focus city. It's better to spin we're gonna grow our LAX opportunity vs Hey during this pandemic world we are finally cutting our losses and dropping the low yielding LGB altogether.
The long game at LAX I see a Mint Double down flying with a sprinkle of Some Mexico, Central America and Hawaii.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
trueblew
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:29 pm

wnflyguy wrote:
My view on The PR spin is we're leaving Long Beach for LAX to grow it's west coast focus city. It's better to spin we're gonna grow our LAX opportunity vs Hey during this pandemic world we are finally cutting our losses and dropping the low yielding LGB altogether.
The long game at LAX I see a Mint Double down flying with a sprinkle of Some Mexico, Central America and Hawaii.

Flyguy


This. Although this has been the plan for the last couple years and the opportunity finally presented itself.
 
User avatar
AAlaxfan
Posts: 696
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:08 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 8:24 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
DoctorVenkman wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
BUR serves as the Valley's primary gateway, and areas as far north as Santa Clarita. Also domestic pax coming from the likes of Camarillo, Calabasas, Woodland Hills, Tarzana, Encino, etc can shave a good 30min+ off their already traffic-laden drive by going to BUR, rather than continuing down the 405 to LAX.

Don't forget there are a ton of areas in LA proper where BUR is significantly more convenient - Hollywood, Los Feliz, Downtown LA, Silverlake, etc... not to mention big areas of wealth like Pasadena and La Canada are right nearby too. I live on the east side and basically everyone I know looks for flights out of BUR before LAX.

Agree for the most part, though I certainly would not call BUR "significantly more convenient" to DTLA.

Much easier to get to LAX: straight shot down 110+105 or 10+405.

Two freeways vs a straight shot up the 5. 17.1 miles vs 17.5. Currently(July 11,1:21pm Pacific) 24 vs 26 minute drive. I'd take the one freeway at a snails pace vs the two at the same pace.

*Google maps used for drive time and distance
Grumpy. Not a dwarf, not an attitude. It's a lifestyle.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 216
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:06 pm

The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 219
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:20 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!

The more I look at this, the more I think this move may be in partnership with AA and AS. Sure there is some competitive overlap, but it could also improve on the existing AA/AS partnership into a very strong domestic codeshare tying various network strengths together from all geographic parts of the country.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 216
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:22 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!

The more I look at this, the more I think this move may be in partnership with AA and AS. Sure there is some competitive overlap, but it could also improve on the existing AA/AS partnership into a very strong domestic codeshare tying various network strengths together from all geographic parts of the country.

Also could be. Either way, it vindicates not putting up the cash for Virgin four years ago. I always kinda expected to see JetBlue, Alaskan, and Hawaiian form some sort of trifecta. American and Alaskan buddying up changed the landscape a bit.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1962
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:13 pm

trueblew wrote:
wnflyguy wrote:
My view on The PR spin is we're leaving Long Beach for LAX to grow it's west coast focus city. It's better to spin we're gonna grow our LAX opportunity vs Hey during this pandemic world we are finally cutting our losses and dropping the low yielding LGB altogether.
The long game at LAX I see a Mint Double down flying with a sprinkle of Some Mexico, Central America and Hawaii.

Flyguy


This. Although this has been the plan for the last couple years and the opportunity finally presented itself.

Yep your right.
Also If JetBlue would have been successful buying VX they would have absolutely killed LGB to double down on it's new merger LAX and SFO hub operations.

On a side track note Everyone speculation is Hawaiian will stop LGB because of JetBlues departure.
Hawaiian because of it's LGB flight schedule connected passengers to Je1 or 2 JetBlue flights at most.
Hawaiian went into LGB on it's own terms they used JetBlues partnerships to get a Slot until they were able to acquire one of their own.

Flyguy
Last edited by wnflyguy on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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KLMatSJC
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:32 pm

tphuang wrote:
Mexican resorts

That's a very good point. One of the first issues with the City of Long Beach was that they wouldn't put an FIS in LGB for JetBlue. I could easily see SJD, PVR, CUN as new destinations for B6 out of LAX.
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Tack
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:58 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Mexican resorts

That's a very good point. One of the first issues with the City of Long Beach was that they wouldn't put an FIS in LGB for JetBlue. I could easily see SJD, PVR, CUN as new destinations for B6 out of LAX.


SJD/PVR/CUN? very low yield Mexico destinations with a ton of competition, most with great networks and mileage plans. Biggest waste of money and resources B6 could spend. They’re in LAX because it’ll make a lot more money than LGB ever could to far more lucrative destinations than Mexico tourist spots.
 
Sdmccray1984
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:07 pm

It is my understanding by reconfiguring T5, you could easily add two more narrow body gates. If LAWA has agreed with B6 on a financing plan to do this, then B6 could stay there for quite some time and still have all the equity they need at T5. Am I wrong?
 
WkndWanderer
Posts: 286
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:16 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!

The more I look at this, the more I think this move may be in partnership with AA and AS. Sure there is some competitive overlap, but it could also improve on the existing AA/AS partnership into a very strong domestic codeshare tying various network strengths together from all geographic parts of the country.


In partnership how? AS or AA already operate or easily could operate most of what B6 is adding. AA obviously has an extensive network on the east coast and B6 will have a token presence in intra-west markets, what would B6 be bringing to the table?
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:00 am

WkndWanderer wrote:
B6 would be the fifth and sixth carrier flying those routes, you don’t see a lot of competition there?

Picking a day in November on LAX-PVR, I see just 4 flights with 2 from AS and 1 each from AA/DL. LAX-SJD I see 6 flights with 3 from AS and 1 each from AA/DL/UA. It's about the same level of competition you'd see on JFK-CUN, where B6 does really well. The fares look reasonable for 2 hour flights, especially compared to LAX-MEX. Now, LAX-MEX is actually be a cut-throat route they should stay away from.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:05 am

Question?

Does anyone know what the point-of-sale split on B6 JFK-LAX is? I am thinking some people are assuming B6 has greater LAX point-of-sale strength than it actually does. I would not be surprised if it is 70+% NYC POS for B6.
 
WkndWanderer
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:30 am

tphuang wrote:
WkndWanderer wrote:
B6 would be the fifth and sixth carrier flying those routes, you don’t see a lot of competition there?

Picking a day in November on LAX-PVR, I see just 4 flights with 2 from AS and 1 each from AA/DL. LAX-SJD I see 6 flights with 3 from AS and 1 each from AA/DL/UA. It's about the same level of competition you'd see on JFK-CUN, where B6 does really well. The fares look reasonable for 2 hour flights, especially compared to LAX-MEX. Now, LAX-MEX is actually be a cut-throat route they should stay away from.


UA appears to start LAX-PVR 1x in December, not sure what WN is doing with SJD this year and am not sure how these seasons stack up with what those two have flown in pre-COVID years. B6 is obviously much more established with more brand loyal flyers in JFK and that region generally than they are in LAX where consumers are going to be more agnostic or drawn to LAX and the west coast’s bigger carriers, I would expect B6 to have an easier time with something like JFK-CUN than LAX-SJD. That feels a bit like saying AS should have no problem with JFK-CUN because they operate on competitive Mexican routes from the west coast, even though the two obviously have different coastal bases of strength.
Last edited by WkndWanderer on Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
AmericanAir88
Posts: 55
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:38 am

This will make the LAX-LAS route have 9 different airlines running it. AA, DL, UA, WN, AS, G4, F9, NK, and now B6. It splits quite evenly between full service and low cost. B6 will probably lure people away from the US3. WN has the free bags and the ULCCs have the low prices.

I do enjoy connecting through LAX on a US3 from NYC.

Honestly, LAX-LAS is perfect for ULCCs. It is a 40 minute flight.
 
strfyr51
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:42 am

AMALH747430 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Without a hub west of MCO or FLL, they're going to be hard-pressed to capture much loyalty from passengers in the L.A. Basin who need more than transcons with lie-flat seats, especially if they have a limited network from LAX. Trying to compete in LAX-SFO with two daily flights would be like trying to compete in BOS-LGA with two daily flights. LAX is the place they need to be if they want to be relevant in L.A., but they're going to have to eat losses for years just as VX did.


This is the problem. I get that B6 wants to make LAX a thing. However, they haven't been successful at gaining critical mass outside of BOS, JFK, FLL, and MCO. Mint might be a fine product. They make money on it. It doesn't do anything for the corporate traveler that does business outside their areas of strength. I'm not saying B6 is a bad airline. They do what they do quite well. I just don't think they're going to somehow steal the transcon market from UA/DL/AA. The occasional traveler or the traveler that only needs to go where B6 flies might enjoy Mint or the B6 economy product. When someone needs to go to New York this week, Houston next week, and Kansas City the week after that, the traveler is going to go with the airline that gets them all the places they need to go. That isn't B6.

If they want to be a player at LAX they're going to have to be committed financially. Competing with the big 3 and WN isn't going to be easy. WN owns the intra-California market between the major cities (they have a loyal customer base that they serve quite well) and UA flies to almost every single air strip with a terminal from either SFO and/or LAX. The LA - NY transcon routes are hub to hub for UA and DL. AA isn't as strong on the NY end but they have very lucrative corporate contracts. Then there's the fact that other than Mint, B6 is an all economy (albeit good economy) operation. That can be a turn off for some travelers. For those that aren't, they'll have to go up against the airline that does all economy better than anyone else on the planet, especially when we're talking financial returns.

To be clear, I'm not saying B6 can't do this. I'm saying its going to be very expensive and resource intensive. They're backed into a corner after loosing the VX deal. They feel the need to do something. VX was basically B6 west. They weren't able to achieve the same success that B6 has on the east coast. Partly because (other than SFO) the west coast market is much more fragmented and competitive. WN plays a much bigger role in major west coast markets than they do in major east coast markets. You also have a very established "regional" legacy (AS) that does quite well up and down the west coast. Add to that, no airline has ever been able to make a "barbell" route structure work long terms (US tried it twice, first with PS which they abandoned, then with HP which resulted in an AA merger) We'll see if they have the resources to see this thing through while trying to grow/defend EWR, BOS, JFK during an unprecedented era of depressed travel demand.

without a doubt you're right. I've posted that B6 needs an interior UN hub in the mid west somewhere to get to critical mass. they're flying into ORD but they need more than a spoke, Were they Frontier and Spirit to combine? they would have the needed reference for a truly national system and not a Barbell system. JBLU has stepped TO the majors and now they have to at least try and Emulate them to an extent with connections in the middle of the country as well as the coasts whether they hub Denver, Dallas Chicago, or Memphis (or any other interior city) a pseudo Hub on the west coast and a split hub on the east coast? Does not a network carrier make. they have the Northeast, the southeast and part of the west (proposed) but they have no heartland support, And? That could very well become a problem.
 
tphuang
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:11 am

usflyer msp wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I think you hit the nail on the head with this comment right here. The frequent traveler or frequent business traveler is likely to be loyal to one, maybe two airlines. That airline is picked based on whether or not they fly everywhere the traveler needs to go. I'm in the middle of starting up my own business and most of my travel takes me to the midwest, maybe sometimes to Florida, and potentially the west coast in the future (but not LAX). I'm based in New York. A traveler like myself who might need to be in Madison one week, Chicago three weeks later, Orlando a few weeks after that, and then Kansas City (where I might have a small office for purposes of my corporation) isn't going to choose an airline like B6. You'll see me on DL, AA, or (wow almost said US), UA. Considering my proximity to JFK and LGA, the winner here is DL.


B6 won't just not fly from LAX to many major cities, they won't be able to get west-coast pax to major cities like Chicago, Atlanta and Houston even with a connection. Alot of people are just drinking the blue kool-aid on the odds of this expansion being successful.


MIflyer12 wrote:
As for the OP's topic, this is a step in a very long process of B6 becoming a national airline instead of an East Coast + Caribbean airline. The parallel is AS a decade+ ago thinking that it needed to do more than Seattle and Anchorage, adding extensive West Coast - Hawaii services, then incrementally SEA-BOS/IAD/BWI/DTW, etc. B6 needs LAX, to be relevant to a lot of NYC, BOS and FLL traffic. It needs to offer meaningful levels of service (not just NYC/BOS) to the top ~20 markets to be a national carrier. Seventy flights is barely a ripple in a market the size of LAX (avg ~1,800 flights/day pre-COVID if my interpretation of LAWA data is right), but they need to start. Services to LGB never could have done what B6 needs done in the market.

There aren't too many city pairs/airport pairs in the U.S. that can handle six or seven (or eight!) carriers with frequent service and acceptable-to-carrier avg fares. The probability of ugly fare wars is high. Good for LAX consumers.


I'm just putting this side by side since Miflyer12 understands the point of this. Think 6 months ago, JetBlue's position in NYC was that of a strong leisure carrier, popular with New Yorkers, but had limited business schedule outside of transcon flights and Boston. Their position in Boston was a lot stronger, but there was a cap to their ability in attracting top level ff that travel for business. They simply had very little relevance outside of NorthEast and Florida. They didn't fly to many places in middle of the country. And more importantly to many big banking firms, they don't fly to Europe. While this is happening, they were slowly weakening in NY against DL and faced a lot of yield pressure in Boston and Florida

Now you skip 6 months to today. They face no pressure in JFK and BOS. Slots have suddenly become available in slot constrained European airports. That's why they are still scheduled to fly to Europe by next summer. By 2025, they will be flying to a lot of European airports from JFK/BOS. At JFK, they now will be able to claim enough slots to fly a complete schedule instead of only being able to grow by upgauging. With the recent adds of DFW, DTW and MSP, they are only missing CLT among the top 25 domestic markets out of NYC. And I'm sure CLT will be added soon. They will have enough slots on hand to also add places like STL, CLE, IND and MCI. At the same time, they have room to do a major expansion at EWR which allows them to also capture customers who may need to fly out of EWR and fly back to JFK/LGA. And more slots will probably be available at LGA which would allow them to enter the LGA-ORD or LGA-DCA market. There is a big difference in the type of network you can run with 230 flights a day (what they had pre-COVID across JFK/LGA/EWR/HPN) vs 350 flights a day(which is where I think they will be in a few years). The second allows you to compete for top customers with UA/DL. The former relegates you to a leisure carrier.

And finally, they need a larger presence in LAX and SFO to capture some of these larger firms in northeast that have big offices in California or vice versa. What they had with split operation in LAX/LGB doesn't allow for that. Now with more gates available at both LAX/SFO, they can build the former into a west coast mini-hub. They can build the latter into like a 30 to 40 flight operation.

As for flying into middle of the country, that's easy stuff. They can add flights to places like STL/IND/CMH from BOS at anytime. But to be able to have more slots at JFK, gates at EWR/SFO/LAX and more access to slot constrained European airport? That's only possible with these moves. Frankly, having a couple of flights to middle of the country doesn't really move to needle for larger finance and tech firms based in Northeast if you don't fly to London and Paris.

Important point here is that LAX expansion will really kick off in 2023 when they have enough A220s. It will follow their entrance into Europe and expansion at JFK/EWR and getting to 200 flights at BOS. The initial phase of this transformation to a legacy-lite carrier will be done by 2025. All of this will allow them to capture a much larger portion of the corporate pie.
 
wv399
Posts: 87
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:23 am

usflyer msp wrote:
wv399 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Operating a niche premium Transcon operation is a whole different story than having a base at a LAX. B6 will find a very different competitive environment and reaction to their product differetiation on short haul and midcons from LAX.


True, but the premium heavy traffic from LAX will allow them to compete in a way they never could from LGB.


I don't see B6 attracting much of that premium traffic outside of MINT. Their network is too limited for business travelers to make that commitment.


LOL! That’s the point. MINT IS the premium product, and has allowed LAX to be successful. LGB has produced unsustainable losses, resulting in its closure (no matter how much I’ve liked flying from there). Even AA with it’s vast network, corporate contracts, and frequent flyer base hasn’t been making money at LAX, but that doesn’t mean it’s not valuable. Like EWR, available space at LAX is a rare opportunity they have to take advantage of. B6 appeals to the occasional business traveler and the leisure/VFR crowd.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3618
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:32 am

I see prices climbing at LGB.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:04 am

wv399 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
wv399 wrote:

True, but the premium heavy traffic from LAX will allow them to compete in a way they never could from LGB.


I don't see B6 attracting much of that premium traffic outside of MINT. Their network is too limited for business travelers to make that commitment.


LOL! That’s the point. MINT IS the premium product, and has allowed LAX to be successful. LGB has produced unsustainable losses, resulting in its closure (no matter how much I’ve liked flying from there). Even AA with it’s vast network, corporate contracts, and frequent flyer base hasn’t been making money at LAX, but that doesn’t mean it’s not valuable. Like EWR, available space at LAX is a rare opportunity they have to take advantage of. B6 appeals to the occasional business traveler and the leisure/VFR crowd.


Premium ≠ Business Class
Premium = High Fares in any class

Outside of the MINT transcons, I don't see the rest of their network from LAX attracting high-fare passengers. Their frequency is too limited, there is too much competition, and the bulk of their network is irrelevant to LAX residents. There is no reason for LAX passengers to choose B6 short-haul and midcon when there are plenty of other carriers with better schedules, better fares, and more relevant route networks. I said what I said. s

BTW, AA made money domestically from LAX pre-COVID. Trying to fly to China from LAX is what made it go into the red.
 
S0Y
Posts: 128
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:15 am

C-19 has upended life as we know it. There is no guarantee that things will revert to the old model. Airlines have devalued their FFP and companies are busy cutting costs. I think there is a high chance that we see much more free agents after Covid, where people make a choice based on the immediate trip rather than loyalty to a given airline. So B6 could do well ex-LAX even if they do not have great coverage to mid-USA
 
catiii
Posts: 3577
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:48 am

usflyer msp wrote:
Alot of people are just drinking the blue kool-aid on the odds of this expansion being successful.


Go ahead and underestimate them. People have been doing it for 20 years.
 
catiii
Posts: 3577
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:50 am

wnflyguy wrote:
My view on The PR spin is we're leaving Long Beach for LAX to grow it's west coast focus city. It's better to spin we're gonna grow our LAX opportunity vs Hey during this pandemic world we are finally cutting our losses and dropping the low yielding LGB altogether.
The long game at LAX I see a Mint Double down flying with a sprinkle of Some Mexico, Central America and Hawaii.

Flyguy


Huh? Your view is exactly the view they articulated.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3618
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:00 am

WkndWanderer wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!

The more I look at this, the more I think this move may be in partnership with AA and AS. Sure there is some competitive overlap, but it could also improve on the existing AA/AS partnership into a very strong domestic codeshare tying various network strengths together from all geographic parts of the country.


In partnership how? AS or AA already operate or easily could operate most of what B6 is adding. AA obviously has an extensive network on the east coast and B6 will have a token presence in intra-west markets, what would B6 be bringing to the table?


Funny that AS had to drop Oneworld right around when Delta turned on them. How does he figure the US government will let it be more than standard bag transfers.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3618
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:14 am

janders wrote:
Funny take from Crankyflier

“This is stupid,” Snyder told TPG on Thursday. “It’s smart that they’re finally leaving Long Beach. However, instead they’ve decided to go into one of the most competitive airports in the world on routes where they’ll really add little value and I don’t see how this works.”

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-t ... alignment/

To put it in perspective, 5 airlines already call LAX a hub or focus city. Now add in JetBlue to the mix.


Let see:
NYC CSA: 22.5 million population. 3 major airports.
LA Metro: 18.7 million population. 1 major airport.
Chicago: 9.8 million population. 2 major airports.

So to put in perspective why would 6 airlines listing the only large airport in the area as a hub or focus city a bad prospect. 1 airport with around double the population of Chicago's 2 airports.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3618
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:18 am

tphuang wrote:
Nicknuzzii wrote:
Sorry this is a bit off topic. B6 announced their future intentions for LAX but I haven’t heard anything for EWR? Has B6 said anything about their future growth there?

I wouldn't worried about EWR. They will grow there as much as space allows. They probably got some kind of commitment from LAWA on # of gates they will be able to access. At EWR, they are still fighting to get more space when T1 opens. I expect their EWR operation to be larger than LAX.


Somewhere noted they are going for around 21 daily from EWR to around 45-50. Lax is looking at at least 70. How is EWR going to be bigger?
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3618
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:24 am

nine4nine wrote:
alasizon wrote:
UPlog wrote:
Seems no matter how hard airlines try, all roads in LA lead to LAX where the money and customers are.

Good luck, but suspect it will be brutal with so many overlapping competitors.


The money is in SNA and BUR for domestic travel, they are just space limited. I don't see this though as being any less successful than their existing LGB service. They already were offering these routes from LGB so it isn't as if it is new capacity in the overall LA market.

The gate situation will be interesting to see moving forward.



BUR most likely gets another boost in flights as well and SNA added once the 220 comes online.


SNA still rotates capacity yearly. Just cause you have 4 slot pairs now does not mean you won't have only 1 next year. Also SNA not only limits flights but also the number of total passengers allowed per year for the airport.
 
Tack
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:28 am

catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Yet, Mint somehow generated higher yield on NYC-LAX than UA and the most profitable part of their network after NYC VFR flights.

Mint had better generate higher yield. B6 has a lower cost structure. My point is while it’s a fine product, it’s never going to be that valuable to those businesses that need a complete domestic and international network. B6 will find LAX a lot more profitable than LGB ever was. And I believe they’ll do ok or even good there. But they’re also going to have to find ways to beef up their network if they hope to be a major player in Los Angeles. Mint, alone won’t get em there. WN knows this. They are all network and frequency.


And yet Mint is filled with high yield corporate customers. Hmmm...


Hmmm...we know it’s ‘filled’? Post something that shows me that they’re ‘filling’ it with high value corporate customers. You BlueBoys sure get tight jaws on stuff when someone questions something. Now I have no doubt that Mint has helped elevate their yields in those very competitive markets. But to suggest that Mint opens up an equal amount of lucrative contracted business flying for them as the US3? I’m going be skeptical. Again, why is it so offensive to you BlueBoys if anyone thinks that their network is weak?
Last edited by Tack on Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3618
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:51 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
catiii wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
Just hope they find more passengers than Virgin America did though - lovely aeroplanes but in my experience not full!


VA was 65 or so airplanes and what, 30 cities? JetBlue is orders of magnitude bigger, has an extremely profitable and well known TCON franchise and brand, and a fleet size (assuming the E190s retire) that will be well into the 300s in terms of numbers. Not sure what flights you were on but pre-Covid, were averaging system LF in the high 80s/low 90s percent.

The comparisons between JetBlue and VA start and end with the cool brand and Airbus.


Not on the West Coast, they don't. VX had a West Coast flight count significantly larger than what B6 even contemplates for 2025. B6 is aiming to be #5 or #6 at LAX. That is not obviously a profitable franchise.


They were talking B6 TCON vs VX TCON.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:24 am

AAlaxfan wrote:
Two freeways vs a straight shot up the 5.
AAlaxfan wrote:
I'd take the one freeway at a snails pace vs the two at the same pace.

A distinction without a difference really; well, so far as the 110/105 goes, which is my preferred route.

You're just making a hard right, and the chances of disruptive traffic on the 5 far in excess of encountering it on the brief sting of the 105('s tail end) that you'd use to get to LAX.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
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