Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:57 am

malaysia wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
strfyr51 wrote:
COLA for Long Beach to move to LAX? What for? The Long Beach and LAX areas are nearly the same with Long Beach being more expensive. There are loads of properties near LAX.
''?


Los Angeles has living wage ordinance at the airport -- min base hourly rate $16.50 for employees with health benefits and $22.05 for those without as of July 1.



You mean $16.50 with a company that will offer health benefits, but you still have to deduct the benefits even if they are not decent price. $22.05 is for a company that has no company sponsored health insurance options right, I know some who took some airport job at LAX and already has insurance at another job outside and opted out and company insurance was not free, but still makes less than $22. Maybe I am thinking of some airport ordnances that let you make more money if you opt-out of company offered health insurance, I think that is SFO cause health insurance is to be provided for free to the employee only, so if you somehow have another plan somewhere, the employer can bump up your minimum wage since you did not select the free insurance, I guess not the case at LAX.

I can see how it may benefit some B6 agents from LGB if they made less than $16.50


Its $16.50 with insurance, or $22.05 without.

The $5.55/hr difference is a " health benefits" portion set aside meant for employers to utilize to pay for the benefit.

Its also not easy to opt out, as employers must tread carefully between the City ordinance and ACA Employer mandate that requires large employers to offer health benefits to their workforce.

Operating at places like LAX or SFO is far more expensive in many ways than smaller community airports like LGB.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
aaway
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:07 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:07 am

Tack wrote:
I don’t see AS giving up T6. They tried the co-locating with AA back in the late 80’s- early 90’s. Even though there was no partnership, It was a disaster coordinating gates with AA. Some days we had to operate almost half of our 12 flight a day schedule via a bus op out of AA’s Super-bay hanger. Once in T6 AS built a ramp tower and committed a ton of $ to make it what they wanted. Including getting FIS. I’ve been out for about 2 years, but at the time I left, AS had no desire to lose their ability to control their own terminal. And certainly not let it go to a competitor. Lol, nope. I’m going to say B6 will get what it gets in T5 and be happy as hell to get it.


EDIT - I do remember you guys moved to T-3 in 1990.

Anyhow, AS certainly has a level of clout that LAWA has to cater to to some degree. And you're absolutely right in saying that AS spent a grip on leasehold improvements to T-6. The thing you're overlooking, regardless of the desire of AS, is that LAWA is still the landlord. Those leasehold improvements that AS made reverted to LAWA after LAWA paid AS for the T-6 improvements. The fixtures, appliances & implements that AS placed in T6 are AS'. The facility itself is LAWAs'.

Of course I'd expect any scenario that involves a potential moving carriers would be subject to negotiation. Yes, the carriers have some sway - hence likely negotiations. But LAWA has goals as well for the operation of the passenger facilities & overall passenger experience at the airport.

EDIT - I'll just add that a potential move by AS wouldn't necessarily mean the loss of access to an FIS. I'll say that AS would still have an FIS under the theoretical scenario I'm pondering. Think about it....;)
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
Tack
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:08 am

aaway wrote:
Tack wrote:
I don’t see AS giving up T6. They tried the co-locating with AA back in the late 80’s- early 90’s. Even though there was no partnership, It was a disaster coordinating gates with AA. Some days we had to operate almost half of our 12 flight a day schedule via a bus op out of AA’s Super-bay hanger. Once in T6 AS built a ramp tower and committed a ton of $ to make it what they wanted. Including getting FIS. I’ve been out for about 2 years, but at the time I left, AS had no desire to lose their ability to control their own terminal. And certainly not let it go to a competitor. Lol, nope. I’m going to say B6 will get what it gets in T5 and be happy as hell to get it.


EDIT - I do remember you guys moved to T-3 in 1990.

Anyhow, AS certainly has a level of clout that LAWA has to cater to to some degree. And you're absolutely right in saying that AS spent a grip on leasehold improvements to T-6. The thing you're overlooking, regardless of the desire of AS, is that LAWA is still the landlord. Those leasehold improvements that AS made reverted to LAWA after LAWA paid AS for the T-6 improvements. The fixtures, appliances & implements that AS placed in T6 are AS'. The facility itself is LAWAs'.

Of course I'd expect any scenario that involves a potential moving carriers would be subject to negotiation. Yes, the carriers have some sway - hence likely negotiations. But LAWA has goals as well for the operation of the passenger facilities & overall passenger experience at the airport.

EDIT - I'll just add that a potential move by AS wouldn't necessarily mean the loss of access to an FIS. I'll say that AS would still have an FIS under the theoretical scenario I'm pondering. Think about it....;)


I don’t remember when, exactly, Ray Brown worked with facilities to go to that dump in T3., I’m pretty sure it was mid 91. I was in SEA and LGB, going back and forth getting ready to open YYZ. To your suggestion that LAWA would somehow move AS to accommodate B6? Won’t happen. AS worked long and hard with LAWA on getting back into T6, the first terminal we used when we originally opened LAX. Now, they may have AS accommodate another carrier with a small operation from T5, but I’ll bet the house B6 doesn’t get T6.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2264
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:38 am

Tack wrote:
I don’t remember when, exactly, Ray Brown worked with facilities to go to that dump in T3., I’m pretty sure it was mid 91. I was in SEA and LGB, going back and forth getting ready to open YYZ. To your suggestion that LAWA would somehow move AS to accommodate B6? Won’t happen. AS worked long and hard with LAWA on getting back into T6, the first terminal we used when we originally opened LAX. Now, they may have AS accommodate another carrier with a small operation from T5, but I’ll bet the house B6 doesn’t get T6.


Gosh I forgot about AS being originally at T6! They shared a gate with Republic if I recall! And T3...good riddance!

If LAWA made them an offer they couldn't refuse I could see AS possibly moving to T5. They'd be together with their new 'West Coast International Alliance' partner AA and Oneworld carriers at TBIT. Also there's the customs FIS at T4 but not sure if it connects to T5?
 
Tack
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:48 am

hiflyeras wrote:
Tack wrote:
I don’t remember when, exactly, Ray Brown worked with facilities to go to that dump in T3., I’m pretty sure it was mid 91. I was in SEA and LGB, going back and forth getting ready to open YYZ. To your suggestion that LAWA would somehow move AS to accommodate B6? Won’t happen. AS worked long and hard with LAWA on getting back into T6, the first terminal we used when we originally opened LAX. Now, they may have AS accommodate another carrier with a small operation from T5, but I’ll bet the house B6 doesn’t get T6.


Gosh I forgot about AS being originally at T6! They shared a gate with Republic if I recall! And T3...good riddance!

If LAWA made them an offer they couldn't refuse I could see AS possibly moving to T5. They'd be together with their new 'West Coast International Alliance' partner AA and Oneworld carriers at TBIT. Also there's the customs FIS at T4 but not sure if it connects to T5?


I do agree if LAWA gave AS something they coveted at LAX. But what would that be? I’ve been retired for 2 years so I’m way outta the loop here, but I was under the impression that facilities was pretty happy with the T6 space. And, T6 was a total dump when I transferred in 1985. Still using the tunnel. We shared with CO and RC, who had just been purchased by NW and was running their op split out of T2 & T3 while they were integrating the Goose. We just had 3 flights a day, all SEA using gate 64. So we got to get into all the politics of that merger because RC was our ground handler. Anyway, I just don’t see B6 getting it’s own terminal that quick.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:25 am

I think some people are overstating Alaska’s “retrenchment”. They’ve also added some smaller Western cities this year that are still operating. One can argue those don’t count, but they’re still planes taking up gates. And while cutting transcons during the pandemic isn’t a great look, thus far the only permanent cuts I can think of are PHL and BWI. Also, Alaska has had a sizable operation at LAX for years, long before VX. I get the impression people think they operated a few SEA/PDX flights before VX and that cutting a couple transcons is some sign they will gut the operation. I have no inside knowledge, but I highly doubt Alaska will just run away and let B6 take over terminals.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:03 am

B6 is suggesting they will grow to 70 daily flights, which is just below where AS was to be this summer, pre-covid. What makes anyone at all think that B6 is going to move in with a schedule less than what AS already had and take over any of their gates? B6 is still going to be the smaller of the two airlines in the end. It's yet to be seen if their growth plans will actually even happen. We're not even midway through the first phase of this pandemic, things are getting rougher and B6 is announcing impressive growth plans to cities that are being adversely affected by Covid in a disproportionate way to many other states... Good luck with that. Maybe their plan to expand dramatically will work when everyone else is bleeding money and trying to stay alive.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5315
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:35 am

LAXBUR wrote:
I think some people are overstating Alaska’s “retrenchment”. They’ve also added some smaller Western cities this year that are still operating. One can argue those don’t count, but they’re still planes taking up gates. And while cutting transcons during the pandemic isn’t a great look, thus far the only permanent cuts I can think of are PHL and BWI. Also, Alaska has had a sizable operation at LAX for years, long before VX. I get the impression people think they operated a few SEA/PDX flights before VX and that cutting a couple transcons is some sign they will gut the operation. I have no inside knowledge, but I highly doubt Alaska will just run away and let B6 take over terminals.


Again, my suggestion does not suggest AS retrenchment. I'm simply saying that even AA is going to be fine with 5 gates at T-5, it might make sense for the 2 carriers to co-locate in T4-5. I'm not sure why that can't be seen as a plus given it will make connections a lot easier for customers between the 2 airlines. From all we have heard from AA, they expect AS to be a huge part of their LAX strategy. And I expect AA to drop some of the lower volume west coast stuff and get feed from AS on those.

At this point, I don't think anyone has the $2 billion needed to cause a massive LAX shifting.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:34 pm

LAXintl wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

How does that work for part time employees that don't qualify for the company sponsored health plan?


LAX Living Wage makes no distinction. The ordinance is meant to encourage employers to provide all their employees with health care. If employees are not given health care by their employer, the minimum cash wage at LAX would be $22.05.


Ok so this ordinance and move to LAX will actually impact certain B6 flight attendants too. They start out at 21 a hour and if part time they can't get health insurance. On second thought, I don't think this will come up because I think you are forbidden from being part time until you have a year under your belt. But its certainly borderline. Also shows how raising minimum wages closes the gap between workgroups. Its kind of very unfair to the flight attendants because they only get that higher hourly wage because of the nature of their work, they get far less hours per month than say, gate agents.

And this will be a VERY big raise for the gate agents and baggage handlers. I think they start out at around 10 to 12 a hour for gate agents, maybe lower for ground ops.
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:53 pm

tphuang wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I think some people are overstating Alaska’s “retrenchment”. They’ve also added some smaller Western cities this year that are still operating. One can argue those don’t count, but they’re still planes taking up gates. And while cutting transcons during the pandemic isn’t a great look, thus far the only permanent cuts I can think of are PHL and BWI. Also, Alaska has had a sizable operation at LAX for years, long before VX. I get the impression people think they operated a few SEA/PDX flights before VX and that cutting a couple transcons is some sign they will gut the operation. I have no inside knowledge, but I highly doubt Alaska will just run away and let B6 take over terminals.


Again, my suggestion does not suggest AS retrenchment. I'm simply saying that even AA is going to be fine with 5 gates at T-5, it might make sense for the 2 carriers to co-locate in T4-5. I'm not sure why that can't be seen as a plus given it will make connections a lot easier for customers between the 2 airlines. From all we have heard from AA, they expect AS to be a huge part of their LAX strategy. And I expect AA to drop some of the lower volume west coast stuff and get feed from AS on those.

At this point, I don't think anyone has the $2 billion needed to cause a massive LAX shifting.


Wasn’t directed at you. And no hate or ill will toward JetBlue. But I’ve seen the suggestion that AS is “retrenching” from LAX a few times now here in this thread and others. Seems a bit early to make such an assertion during a pandemic, especially with an airline such as AS which has always been on the conservative side of things.

As far as the terminal shuffle, I think as you noted it seems rather unrealistic at this point. Alaska has invested in T6 and unless someone throws cash at them I doubt they’re too interested in moving again. And since LAX is primarily an O&D airport I don’t think co-location is necessary for a handful of connecting passengers that can still access T4/5 with a long but doable walk. If they were doing what they’re doing in SEA I think there’d be a better argument for this.
 
Tack
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:21 pm

LAXBUR wrote:
tphuang wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
I think some people are overstating Alaska’s “retrenchment”. They’ve also added some smaller Western cities this year that are still operating. One can argue those don’t count, but they’re still planes taking up gates. And while cutting transcons during the pandemic isn’t a great look, thus far the only permanent cuts I can think of are PHL and BWI. Also, Alaska has had a sizable operation at LAX for years, long before VX. I get the impression people think they operated a few SEA/PDX flights before VX and that cutting a couple transcons is some sign they will gut the operation. I have no inside knowledge, but I highly doubt Alaska will just run away and let B6 take over terminals.


Again, my suggestion does not suggest AS retrenchment. I'm simply saying that even AA is going to be fine with 5 gates at T-5, it might make sense for the 2 carriers to co-locate in T4-5. I'm not sure why that can't be seen as a plus given it will make connections a lot easier for customers between the 2 airlines. From all we have heard from AA, they expect AS to be a huge part of their LAX strategy. And I expect AA to drop some of the lower volume west coast stuff and get feed from AS on those.

At this point, I don't think anyone has the $2 billion needed to cause a massive LAX shifting.


Wasn’t directed at you. And no hate or ill will toward JetBlue. But I’ve seen the suggestion that AS is “retrenching” from LAX a few times now here in this thread and others. Seems a bit early to make such an assertion during a pandemic, especially with an airline such as AS which has always been on the conservative side of things.

As far as the terminal shuffle, I think as you noted it seems rather unrealistic at this point. Alaska has invested in T6 and unless someone throws cash at them I doubt they’re too interested in moving again. And since LAX is primarily an O&D airport I don’t think co-location is necessary for a handful of connecting passengers that can still access T4/5 with a long but doable walk. If they were doing what they’re doing in SEA I think there’d be a better argument for this.


Long but doable walk is the key. Very few codeshare connections at LAX are convenient. AA/AS have the luxury of staging their most trafficked connections between T6/T5 and keeping the ‘walk’ as short as possible. I guarantee neither wants to lose gates to make this partnership work. That said, who knows how many gates B6 will ultimately require at LAX? Some markets they’ll do great in. Some, they’ll start and have to re-think. This is a work in progress. Definitely a smart business move by B6, but there are a ton of variables. I admit it’s fun as hell to speculate on how they will fare. I think they’ll do ok to good, but at the end of the day only needing 5-7 gates. I think a shared T5 gets them that. Give it a couple of years and see where they are.
 
vtchaz78
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:25 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

How does that work for part time employees that don't qualify for the company sponsored health plan?


LAX Living Wage makes no distinction. The ordinance is meant to encourage employers to provide all their employees with health care. If employees are not given health care by their employer, the minimum cash wage at LAX would be $22.05.


Ok so this ordinance and move to LAX will actually impact certain B6 flight attendants too. They start out at 21 a hour and if part time they can't get health insurance. On second thought, I don't think this will come up because I think you are forbidden from being part time until you have a year under your belt. But its certainly borderline. Also shows how raising minimum wages closes the gap between workgroups. Its kind of very unfair to the flight attendants because they only get that higher hourly wage because of the nature of their work, they get far less hours per month than say, gate agents.

And this will be a VERY big raise for the gate agents and baggage handlers. I think they start out at around 10 to 12 a hour for gate agents, maybe lower for ground ops.


Flight Attendants do not fall under this. They are governed by the Railway Labor Act at the Federal Level.
 
ScottB
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
Again, my suggestion does not suggest AS retrenchment. I'm simply saying that even AA is going to be fine with 5 gates at T-5, it might make sense for the 2 carriers to co-locate in T4-5. I'm not sure why that can't be seen as a plus given it will make connections a lot easier for customers between the 2 airlines. From all we have heard from AA, they expect AS to be a huge part of their LAX strategy. And I expect AA to drop some of the lower volume west coast stuff and get feed from AS on those.


History is not your friend here. Back when UA and US were in Star Alliance together, US remained in Terminal 1 -- they only moved out of T1 after the holding companies of AA and US merged. UA and US management understood the value of restricting WN's ability to expand from T1, even though the connections across the horseshoe were horrible. NW stayed put in Terminal 2 until eight months after its merger with DL closed, even though it had been in SkyTeam for several years.

I think both AA and AS management understand that ceding gates and facilities to B6 at LAX will have a negative impact on both their businesses. As such, I expect both will resist any moves which might create growth opportunities for B6. Pretty much everything B6 flies or is likely to add, apart from LAX-BUF, overlaps with an AA or AS market. Why would they willingly make it easier for a competitor to grow in their markets if they can prevent it? Customer convenience ain't a good reason for that. If AA cared about its customer experience Oasis wouldn't be a thing.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5315
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:40 pm

ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Again, my suggestion does not suggest AS retrenchment. I'm simply saying that even AA is going to be fine with 5 gates at T-5, it might make sense for the 2 carriers to co-locate in T4-5. I'm not sure why that can't be seen as a plus given it will make connections a lot easier for customers between the 2 airlines. From all we have heard from AA, they expect AS to be a huge part of their LAX strategy. And I expect AA to drop some of the lower volume west coast stuff and get feed from AS on those.


History is not your friend here. Back when UA and US were in Star Alliance together, US remained in Terminal 1 -- they only moved out of T1 after the holding companies of AA and US merged. UA and US management understood the value of restricting WN's ability to expand from T1, even though the connections across the horseshoe were horrible. NW stayed put in Terminal 2 until eight months after its merger with DL closed, even though it had been in SkyTeam for several years.

I think both AA and AS management understand that ceding gates and facilities to B6 at LAX will have a negative impact on both their businesses. As such, I expect both will resist any moves which might create growth opportunities for B6. Pretty much everything B6 flies or is likely to add, apart from LAX-BUF, overlaps with an AA or AS market. Why would they willingly make it easier for a competitor to grow in their markets if they can prevent it? Customer convenience ain't a good reason for that. If AA cared about its customer experience Oasis wouldn't be a thing.


It looks like JetBlue already got the gates they need in T-5. This is proposing for AS/AA to kick JetBlue and whoever else to T-6 for a swap of same number of gates.
 
Tack
Posts: 104
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:45 pm

tphuang wrote:
ScottB wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Again, my suggestion does not suggest AS retrenchment. I'm simply saying that even AA is going to be fine with 5 gates at T-5, it might make sense for the 2 carriers to co-locate in T4-5. I'm not sure why that can't be seen as a plus given it will make connections a lot easier for customers between the 2 airlines. From all we have heard from AA, they expect AS to be a huge part of their LAX strategy. And I expect AA to drop some of the lower volume west coast stuff and get feed from AS on those.


History is not your friend here. Back when UA and US were in Star Alliance together, US remained in Terminal 1 -- they only moved out of T1 after the holding companies of AA and US merged. UA and US management understood the value of restricting WN's ability to expand from T1, even though the connections across the horseshoe were horrible. NW stayed put in Terminal 2 until eight months after its merger with DL closed, even though it had been in SkyTeam for several years.

I think both AA and AS management understand that ceding gates and facilities to B6 at LAX will have a negative impact on both their businesses. As such, I expect both will resist any moves which might create growth opportunities for B6. Pretty much everything B6 flies or is likely to add, apart from LAX-BUF, overlaps with an AA or AS market. Why would they willingly make it easier for a competitor to grow in their markets if they can prevent it? Customer convenience ain't a good reason for that. If AA cared about its customer experience Oasis wouldn't be a thing.


It looks like JetBlue already got the gates they need in T-5. This is proposing for AS/AA to kick JetBlue and whoever else to T-6 for a swap of same number of gates.


I’m not saying it is never, ever going to happen. The LAX pie is big and diverse enough that with few exceptions everyone should do good there. I truly believe that LGB for B6 was holding them back. It’ll be fun to see how everything plays out post COVID.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:59 pm

vtchaz78 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
LAXintl wrote:

LAX Living Wage makes no distinction. The ordinance is meant to encourage employers to provide all their employees with health care. If employees are not given health care by their employer, the minimum cash wage at LAX would be $22.05.


Ok so this ordinance and move to LAX will actually impact certain B6 flight attendants too. They start out at 21 a hour and if part time they can't get health insurance. On second thought, I don't think this will come up because I think you are forbidden from being part time until you have a year under your belt. But its certainly borderline. Also shows how raising minimum wages closes the gap between workgroups. Its kind of very unfair to the flight attendants because they only get that higher hourly wage because of the nature of their work, they get far less hours per month than say, gate agents.

And this will be a VERY big raise for the gate agents and baggage handlers. I think they start out at around 10 to 12 a hour for gate agents, maybe lower for ground ops.


Flight Attendants do not fall under this. They are governed by the Railway Labor Act at the Federal Level.


Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit
 
vtchaz78
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:08 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Ok so this ordinance and move to LAX will actually impact certain B6 flight attendants too. They start out at 21 a hour and if part time they can't get health insurance. On second thought, I don't think this will come up because I think you are forbidden from being part time until you have a year under your belt. But its certainly borderline. Also shows how raising minimum wages closes the gap between workgroups. Its kind of very unfair to the flight attendants because they only get that higher hourly wage because of the nature of their work, they get far less hours per month than say, gate agents.

And this will be a VERY big raise for the gate agents and baggage handlers. I think they start out at around 10 to 12 a hour for gate agents, maybe lower for ground ops.


Flight Attendants do not fall under this. They are governed by the Railway Labor Act at the Federal Level.


Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


I could be wrong, but VX Flight Attendants did not have a Union...JetBlue Flight Attendants do.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:11 pm

vtchaz78 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:

Flight Attendants do not fall under this. They are governed by the Railway Labor Act at the Federal Level.


Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


I could be wrong, but VX Flight Attendants did not have a Union...JetBlue Flight Attendants do.



They did, coincidentally the exact same union that jetBlue has now. Not that I think that matters.
 
vtchaz78
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 6:01 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:13 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


I could be wrong, but VX Flight Attendants did not have a Union...JetBlue Flight Attendants do.



They did, coincidentally the exact same union that jetBlue has now. Not that I think that matters.


I stand corrected, then.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3854
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:41 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Ok so this ordinance and move to LAX will actually impact certain B6 flight attendants too. They start out at 21 a hour and if part time they can't get health insurance. On second thought, I don't think this will come up because I think you are forbidden from being part time until you have a year under your belt. But its certainly borderline. Also shows how raising minimum wages closes the gap between workgroups. Its kind of very unfair to the flight attendants because they only get that higher hourly wage because of the nature of their work, they get far less hours per month than say, gate agents.

And this will be a VERY big raise for the gate agents and baggage handlers. I think they start out at around 10 to 12 a hour for gate agents, maybe lower for ground ops.


Flight Attendants do not fall under this. They are governed by the Railway Labor Act at the Federal Level.


Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


That is exactly why AS is appealing the verdict. The appellate court has not issued a ruling yet.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:11 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:

Flight Attendants do not fall under this. They are governed by the Railway Labor Act at the Federal Level.


Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


That is exactly why AS is appealing the verdict. The appellate court has not issued a ruling yet.



They will lose their appeal, the airlines already have and follow the different local state family leave laws. NY, MA, Cali all have them, Florida does not. Crew in all those different states have different leave rules to comply with state law. RLA be damned.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:55 am

CobaltScar wrote:
vtchaz78 wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


I could be wrong, but VX Flight Attendants did not have a Union...JetBlue Flight Attendants do.



They did, coincidentally the exact same union that jetBlue has now. Not that I think that matters.


They voted in that union shortly after the buyout by Alaska was announced and could not negotiate a contract before becoming Alaska FA’s under AFA. The lawsuit was filed long before the Alaska purchase when VX FA’s were non union.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:57 am

CobaltScar wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:

Then why did former Virgin America Flight Attendants win their court case in the recent past over California and SFO labor laws?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-lab ... class-suit


That is exactly why AS is appealing the verdict. The appellate court has not issued a ruling yet.



They will lose their appeal, the airlines already have and follow the different local state family leave laws. NY, MA, Cali all have them, Florida does not. Crew in all those different states have different leave rules to comply with state law. RLA be damned.


Not true. At least at Alaska. An arbitrator ruled that the most favorable laws that applied to flight attendants were to be applied across all bases.
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 250
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:00 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!

The more I look at this, the more I think this move may be in partnership with AA and AS. Sure there is some competitive overlap, but it could also improve on the existing AA/AS partnership into a very strong domestic codeshare tying various network strengths together from all geographic parts of the country.


It’s almost like I got it right.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:09 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
The more I look at this, the more I see it being a fight against Alaskan than the big 4. JetBlue have basically managed to achieve the goal they wanted during the Virgin battle, and they didn’t spend 2 billion on it. Get some SFO gates and you’re basically there, minus the bills!

The more I look at this, the more I think this move may be in partnership with AA and AS. Sure there is some competitive overlap, but it could also improve on the existing AA/AS partnership into a very strong domestic codeshare tying various network strengths together from all geographic parts of the country.


It’s almost like I got it right.

Indeed. Smart business in 2016 from JB not chasing Virgin. Hindsight 20/20 but worked out well for them. Alaskan doesn’t seem to have really found a place for the virgin assets, while JB made it work anyways.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1990
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:31 pm

Well with AA and B6 announcement of a codeshare it's easy to see were the extra gates for JetBlue are coming from.

Flyguy
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5030
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:00 am

hawaiian717 wrote:
Blerg wrote:
After all, isn't it the only Los Angeles airport jetBlue will no longer fly to?


JetBlue doesn’t fly to SNA either.

SNA has been at max capacity for quite a while now. B6 didn't hve them as a spoke bur they could is they connected via SFO when capacity becomes available. Sooner or later is will become available. And JFK/EWR- SFO-SNA- JFK would put them in the mix.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1058
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:35 pm

AMALH747430 wrote:
BFL doesn’t have any competition


Out of curiosity, did you mean Bakersfield, or are you using BFL as an acronym for something else? Or was that a typo?
 
User avatar
ADent
Posts: 1116
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:45 pm

flyfresno wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
BFL doesn’t have any competition


Out of curiosity, did you mean Bakersfield, or are you using BFL as an acronym for something else? Or was that a typo?

I think that is supposed to be BUF - Buffalo, NY.

They were referencing new routes from LAX shown in the original post. I think BFL is really BUF due to the reference of up state New York, the spelling, and the fact that every other city shown on the map is listed in the post besides BUF (and Bakersfield is not on the map).
 
AMALH747430
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 9:29 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:55 am

flyfresno wrote:
AMALH747430 wrote:
BFL doesn’t have any competition


Out of curiosity, did you mean Bakersfield, or are you using BFL as an acronym for something else? Or was that a typo?


My mistake, I meant BUF.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Topic Author
Posts: 24702
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:08 pm

And so the big gamble begins....

“For us, LAX is the new world and we’re burning [all] our chips,” JetBlue head of planning Scott Laurence said of the airline's new Los Angeles base.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-l ... ights-lgb/

Image
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MrPeanut
Posts: 165
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 8:36 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:44 pm

I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of those east coast destinations working for them given their strong presence along the east coast. Also, with their lower costs mean they can offer some attractive fares while still making a profit. I think those west coast destinations probably pose the bigger challenge for them.
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1559
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:22 am

LAXintl wrote:
And so the big gamble begins....

“For us, LAX is the new world and we’re burning [all] our chips,” JetBlue head of planning Scott Laurence said of the airline's new Los Angeles base.


To be sure, "Los Angeles" is far better known than "Long Beach". IMO, it's pretty incredible that LAX-MCO and particularly LAX-BUF survived the pandemic on O&D alone. Now those routes could benefit from improved B6 FFer loyalty (the airline could be perceived as a lot more useful now that popular destinations for Angeleno travelers like Seattle, SF and Vegas can now be reached without having to trek to LGB). Perhaps pax will even be willing to connect through LAX on routings like MCO-SEA and BUF-SFO. I believe B6 may already offer far more connecting opportunities at LAX than it ever did at LGB. It will be very interesting to see how everything pans out!
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
trueblew
Posts: 157
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:43 am

LAXintl wrote:
And so the big gamble begins....

“For us, LAX is the new world and we’re burning [all] our chips,” JetBlue head of planning Scott Laurence said of the airline's new Los Angeles base.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-l ... ights-lgb/



Burning our ships. Not all our chips. Fully committed to LAX, there's no going back.
 
tphuang
Posts: 5315
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 12:53 am

Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1725
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:04 am

Launching LAX-RIC in the middle of a pandemic certainly is bold.
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:15 am

tphuang wrote:
Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.


I really wish we'd see a codeshare with AS to cover north-south flying on the west coast. B6 focus on transcons and AS focus on the short haul game.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3607
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:23 am

tphuang wrote:
Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.


Speaking of UA fortress hubs and B6 focus cities...I know it's a pandemic, but how has B6 affected UA pricing out of EWR? Could the same be done at SFO if B6 could get more gate space?
 
phllax
Posts: 609
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:53 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:26 am

I know the gate situation is solved, but where are they parking airplanes overnight?
 
User avatar
mooseofspruce
Posts: 125
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 10:28 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:26 am

Speaking purely for myself, I hope they add more than the current 2-daily morning/evening flights between SFO/LAX. With enough mental gymnastics/reaching it'd be like VX never left after AS turned SFO/LAX into mostly E175s, with B6's restyled A320s going up and down. Although they'd need to actually put restyled A320s onto the route because whenever I've checked previously, the seat map is for a pre-styled A320.
I saw a flock of Moosen! Many much moosen! Out in the woods, in the wood-es, in the woodsen!
 
tphuang
Posts: 5315
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:02 am

aemoreira1981 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.


Speaking of UA fortress hubs and B6 focus cities...I know it's a pandemic, but how has B6 affected UA pricing out of EWR? Could the same be done at SFO if B6 could get more gate space?


It's hard to see JetBlue affecting UA pricing that much out of SFO, but its brand is quite strong even on NJ side of Hudson. I think the Y fare out of EWR was already low due to ULCCs. The big change are the transcon and Premium market where they also put mint on SAN/LAS now. If you look at EWR-LAX, UA is now consistently pricing J seating at $400 to 450 range. They are both offering 4 flights a day in Nov, but UA is pricing its J fares a lot lower.

On SAN/LAS, UA is now pricing Domestic First at around $400 on most days over the next month. I'm not sure if that's going to hold up post-COVID.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1229
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 2:28 am

tphuang wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.


Speaking of UA fortress hubs and B6 focus cities...I know it's a pandemic, but how has B6 affected UA pricing out of EWR? Could the same be done at SFO if B6 could get more gate space?


It's hard to see JetBlue affecting UA pricing that much out of SFO, but its brand is quite strong even on NJ side of Hudson. I think the Y fare out of EWR was already low due to ULCCs. The big change are the transcon and Premium market where they also put mint on SAN/LAS now. If you look at EWR-LAX, UA is now consistently pricing J seating at $400 to 450 range. They are both offering 4 flights a day in Nov, but UA is pricing its J fares a lot lower.

On SAN/LAS, UA is now pricing Domestic First at around $400 on most days over the next month. I'm not sure if that's going to hold up post-COVID.


I would make the argument that NK has effected UA’s pricing more from EWR than any other airline. NK flies some super specific routes from EWR such as EWR-IAH. This was a hub to hub route for UA before and NK saw the opportunity that was there. UA was overcharging for this route. NK has also added routes from EWR like EWR-CLE and BNA. Both of which only had UA serving them when they were announced. NK can really pull from UA and has begun already.

Ok wow this is very off topic. Sorry.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3854
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:20 am

flyby519 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.


I really wish we'd see a codeshare with AS to cover north-south flying on the west coast. B6 focus on transcons and AS focus on the short haul game.


Why would AS want to help one of their major TCon competitors? It's like AA where they get access to AA's extensive domestic and international network in exchange.
 
11C
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:28 am

trueblew wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
And so the big gamble begins....

“For us, LAX is the new world and we’re burning [all] our chips,” JetBlue head of planning Scott Laurence said of the airline's new Los Angeles base.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-l ... ights-lgb/



Burning our ships. Not all our chips. Fully committed to LAX, there's no going back.


It's awesome how a mispronounced, or misspelled word can change the meaning of a phrase. I'm not even familiar with "burning your chips," but we can add that to the list of classic mixed metaphors.
 
GSOtoIND
Posts: 86
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:46 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 10:39 am

11C wrote:
trueblew wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
And so the big gamble begins....

“For us, LAX is the new world and we’re burning [all] our chips,” JetBlue head of planning Scott Laurence said of the airline's new Los Angeles base.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-l ... ights-lgb/



Burning our ships. Not all our chips. Fully committed to LAX, there's no going back.


It's awesome how a mispronounced, or misspelled word can change the meaning of a phrase. I'm not even familiar with "burning your chips," but we can add that to the list of classic mixed metaphors.

Maybe this JetBlue exec was speaking with a Russian/Scottish accent? </humor>
IND. 2018: BOS/AUA/MIA/DEN Next: LAS/SLC/DEN
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 1:59 pm

11C wrote:
trueblew wrote:
LAXintl wrote:
And so the big gamble begins....

“For us, LAX is the new world and we’re burning [all] our chips,” JetBlue head of planning Scott Laurence said of the airline's new Los Angeles base.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/jetblue-l ... ights-lgb/



Burning our ships. Not all our chips. Fully committed to LAX, there's no going back.


It's awesome how a mispronounced, or misspelled word can change the meaning of a phrase. I'm not even familiar with "burning your chips," but we can add that to the list of classic mixed metaphors.



Neither phrase should of been used. How can you say you are a nimble airline but then say there is no going back, do or die sink or swim at lax.

As for LGB, I will miss it. I'm FIRMLY in the prefer small convenient airports to the big hubs.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:23 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Those west coast flights will be tough. It's hard for them to compete for loyalty in west coast without offering those flights. It's hard for them to get additional FFers without offering at least some level of schedule to large west part of country markets like SFO/SEA/SMF/PHX/LAS. The equation here is that they can offset those losses from performing even better on mint routes. EWR-LAX looks like a winner so far.

In order to get some these routes long term, they need to build enough of an operation to turn LAX into a connection hub for both the north-south stuff along west coast all the way to Central America and also the transcon stuff where they are never going to offer daily flights like MCO-SMF, RIC-SFO or even FLL-PDX. They will need to put their most competitive aircraft here. Which means, a lot of A220s on the long and thin transcons and also on those west coast markets like SFO/SEA. It also means once they get a ETOPS aircraft, they need to start flying LAX-HNL. The delivery timing of A220 and more important development on East coast probably prevents them from really making a push here until 2023.

I don't see LAX as a big gamble. I see this as a necessary market for them to have a presence if they want to be more than a regional carrier. They need to be more than a regional carrier if they want to capture some of the higher end corporate account and ff. Flying TATL alone will not do that. They have to think that they need to diversify a little bit away from NYC/Boston and Florida.

What I see as a gamble is if they attempt a SFO focus city. That's what they wanted in the VX deal.


I really wish we'd see a codeshare with AS to cover north-south flying on the west coast. B6 focus on transcons and AS focus on the short haul game.


Why would AS want to help one of their major TCon competitors? It's like AA where they get access to AA's extensive domestic and international network in exchange.


AS can’t compete with B6 t-con product, and B6 can’t compete on short haul west coast against AS. Both carriers need to seize this chance to add bulk to their network offerings in the quickest and most economic way possible.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5994
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:08 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
11C wrote:
trueblew wrote:


Burning our ships. Not all our chips. Fully committed to LAX, there's no going back.


It's awesome how a mispronounced, or misspelled word can change the meaning of a phrase. I'm not even familiar with "burning your chips," but we can add that to the list of classic mixed metaphors.



Neither phrase should of been used. How can you say you are a nimble airline but then say there is no going back, do or die sink or swim at lax.

As for LGB, I will miss it. I'm FIRMLY in the prefer small convenient airports to the big hubs.


Nimble was a Barger term. Hasnt been used in years
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 750
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 6:04 pm

flyby519 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
flyby519 wrote:

I really wish we'd see a codeshare with AS to cover north-south flying on the west coast. B6 focus on transcons and AS focus on the short haul game.


Why would AS want to help one of their major TCon competitors? It's like AA where they get access to AA's extensive domestic and international network in exchange.


AS can’t compete with B6 t-con product, and B6 can’t compete on short haul west coast against AS. Both carriers need to seize this chance to add bulk to their network offerings in the quickest and most economic way possible.


I agree, AS needs to GIVE IT UP when it comes to trans cons. They have zero to no scope protection, they should take advantage of that and become a glorified regional to feed AA international and B6 trans continental.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: JetBlue makes LAX West Coast focus city

Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:30 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

Why would AS want to help one of their major TCon competitors? It's like AA where they get access to AA's extensive domestic and international network in exchange.


AS can’t compete with B6 t-con product, and B6 can’t compete on short haul west coast against AS. Both carriers need to seize this chance to add bulk to their network offerings in the quickest and most economic way possible.


I agree, AS needs to GIVE IT UP when it comes to trans cons. They have zero to no scope protection, they should take advantage of that and become a glorified regional to feed AA international and B6 trans continental.


oh brother... here we go again. AS flies transcons to a substantial number of markets that B6 doesn't, and likely wouldn't operate. On transcons operated using the B6 core A320's, which are a majority of their transcons, B6 isn't providing a product that is better than any other airline. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. Just because you don't like AS doesn't mean they should fold up a major part of their operation and become a small regional airline operating up and down the west coast only. :roll:
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos