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LongLayover
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Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:15 pm

Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:04 am

DFW-OAK has been cut 2x. PHX-OAK was recently cut. Why can't AA make OAK work?

UA does not fly there which I understand why. DL flies to SLC and ATL. I know they competed with WN on PHX-OAK, but they compete with WN on a lot of PHX routes,
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:36 am

Not sure what your premise actually is:
You claim AA can't make OAK work, but then immediately describe a service that AA operates at OAK; having chosen to continue offering it despite the worst downturn in aviation history....
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:07 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Not sure what your premise actually is:
You claim AA can't make OAK work, but then immediately describe a service that AA operates at OAK; having chosen to continue offering it despite the worst downturn in aviation history....

The post is misleading, American did indeed yet again pull out of OAK. AA flew to OAK in the 70s and early 80s and pulled out, then returned in maybe 1999 or 2000 or something along those lines to much fanfare and pulled out shortly afterwards. The US Airways merger brought American back to OAK on PHX-OAK, then DFW was re-started as well. Pre-COVID-19, American had already announced that they would suspend OAK, but perhaps the pandemic accelerated things.

Fair question from the OP, though. OAK is the closest airport for all East Bay travelers and out towards SCK/SMF as well. Depending on traffic and what part of San Francisco one lives/works in, it is sometimes more convenient than SFO for some travelers. If one ends work in the financial district during a light traffic period, it is faster to get on the Bay Bridge and get to OAK than to get down to SFO usually, and far less hectic. Delta teases with an OAK-ATL that comes and goes, but has had solid service to SLC and/or LAX since the Western Airlines merger, United decided to consolidate operates to SFO and got rid of all SJC flights except DEN at one point, but for American, the reason why they have not been able to make OAK work seems a bit more unclear. US Airways seemed to do fine on PHX-OAK with several mainline daily flights at one point.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:59 am

Chasensfo wrote:
Pre-COVID-19, American had already announced that they would suspend OAK, but perhaps the pandemic accelerated things.

Uh I don't think so. They were going up to 2x daily DFW this summer if I remember correctly.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
clrd4t8koff
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:19 am

LAX772LR wrote:
Not sure what your premise actually is:
You claim AA can't make OAK work, but then immediately describe a service that AA operates at OAK; having chosen to continue offering it despite the worst downturn in aviation history....


Huh?? OP did not say anything about a service that AA operates at OAK, nor does AA continue flying any services to OAK. OP clearly stated all OAK routes are cut. What are you talking about??
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:55 pm

The OP's question starts from the presumption that OAK has worth for AA. WN has a pretty good route network there - 129 departures to 36 cities effective 3/4/20. OAK has relatively lower fares than SFO (and even SJC). See quarterly DOT reports. Splitting traffic between SFO and OAK would likely decrease avg gauge and increase CASM - just what AA doesn't want in competition with UA and WN.
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 12:59 pm

LongLayover wrote:
DFW-OAK has been cut 2x. PHX-OAK was recently cut. Why can't AA make OAK work?

UA does not fly there which I understand why. DL flies to SLC and ATL. I know they competed with WN on PHX-OAK, but they compete with WN on a lot of PHX routes,


Quick point of order: DL is not currently serving OAK. All flights are suspended until at least 9/30.
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ucdtim17
Posts: 618
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 6:38 pm

Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:11 pm

AA dropped OAK service June 3, and specifically cited the pandemic. They had cited the Max grounding when suspending OAK-DFW last year. Without those two crises I expect they would have stayed, but here we are. OAK continues to undershoot its local market fundamentals more than any other airport in the country (without capacity or runway length constraints)
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:22 pm

AA and DL have always kind of come and gone at OAK. Will add a few flights in an up economy and then gone again when things turn south. UA used to have some presence, but consolidated at SFO, back in the Shuttle by United days had a lot of flights to LA and at one time a big maintenance facility. When I lived in SF, I hated flying out of Oakland was less convenient or more expensive for ground transportation, but would do it for the right price. These days OAK is primarily Southwest as everyone has bailed but Alaska and maybe a few small players.
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 255
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:54 am

bfitzflyer wrote:
AA and DL have always kind of come and gone at OAK. Will add a few flights in an up economy and then gone again when things turn south. UA used to have some presence, but consolidated at SFO, back in the Shuttle by United days had a lot of flights to LA and at one time a big maintenance facility. When I lived in SF, I hated flying out of Oakland was less convenient or more expensive for ground transportation, but would do it for the right price. These days OAK is primarily Southwest as everyone has bailed but Alaska and maybe a few small players.


Yeah, during the Shuttle days, United had several extra destinations from OAK.This 1994 routemap shows BUR/ONT/SEA also flown, and I think other routes like PDX or SAN may have been added later. OAK-based commuter airlines Sierra Expressway also codeshared with Shuttle by United, offering connections to TVL, MRY, RDD, STS, ect:http://www.departedflights.com/UASHUTTLE100194.html.

In modern times, Spirit is probably the fastest growing airline at OAK other than Southwest. Allegiant had a crew base there for a while, but now they have a smaller operation in OAK.

KLMatSJC wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
Pre-COVID-19, American had already announced that they would suspend OAK, but perhaps the pandemic accelerated things.

Uh I don't think so. They were going up to 2x daily DFW this summer if I remember correctly.

Didn't see it listed on wiki anymore and didn't see nonstops the random day I checked. Turns out DFW is just suspended until September and not eliminated, so they aren't leaving. What I read about that suspension before the pandemic was AA was dropping DFW-OAK because of a lack of 737MAXs and then with PHX being dropped I thought that was it. But they'll be back.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:16 pm

Chasensfo wrote:
Turns out DFW is just suspended until September and not eliminated, so they aren't leaving. What I read about that suspension before the pandemic was AA was dropping DFW-OAK because of a lack of 737MAXs and then with PHX being dropped I thought that was it. But they'll be back.

Whatever you're seeing is outdated. OAK is not showing up as a destination for AA, and OAK has even removed AA from their website. I'd really find it hard to believe that they would still operate DFW without PHX.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
Chasensfo
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:07 am

Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:35 pm

KLMatSJC wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
Turns out DFW is just suspended until September and not eliminated, so they aren't leaving. What I read about that suspension before the pandemic was AA was dropping DFW-OAK because of a lack of 737MAXs and then with PHX being dropped I thought that was it. But they'll be back.

Whatever you're seeing is outdated. OAK is not showing up as a destination for AA, and OAK has even removed AA from their website. I'd really find it hard to believe that they would still operate DFW without PHX.

OK, so OAK is dropped entirely? I'm so confused.
 
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KLMatSJC
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Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:15 am

Chasensfo wrote:
KLMatSJC wrote:
Chasensfo wrote:
Turns out DFW is just suspended until September and not eliminated, so they aren't leaving. What I read about that suspension before the pandemic was AA was dropping DFW-OAK because of a lack of 737MAXs and then with PHX being dropped I thought that was it. But they'll be back.

Whatever you're seeing is outdated. OAK is not showing up as a destination for AA, and OAK has even removed AA from their website. I'd really find it hard to believe that they would still operate DFW without PHX.

OK, so OAK is dropped entirely? I'm so confused.

Yeah they're gone. But it was a post-COVID decision.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
Chemist
Posts: 735
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Why can't AA make OAK work

Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:28 am

AA has been on a bit of a downward slide for quite a while now.
They used to be huge in SJC but let that go.
OAK and SJC are WN strongholds now.

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