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Aptivaboy
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Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:14 pm

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/hawaii-d ... -september

I'm also reading on other sites that a major issue is that the state's highly touted partnership with CVS to quickly test people for Covid isn't working well, with CVS unable to generate results in a fast enough time window. The 72 hour pre-arrival negative for Covid requirement simply can't be met by CVS, either on the mainland or in Hawaii with enough surety to rely upon it. As a result, the idea of testing passengers upon arrival in Hawaiian airports is also down the proverbial drain, at least for now. Apparently, the state can't find alternatives, so they'll remain more or less closed until September. I really worry about the Islands' economy. One the one hand, its devastating. On the other, maybe this will spur Hawaii to foster jobs and industries in areas other than tourism. I'm curious, what do you all think the solution is? Should Hawaii simply reopen, or remain closed? Are there any other useful alternatives to remaining closed as they are now?

Stay safe, everyone.

PS. I didn't see a thread on this; apologies if I've duplicated it accidentally.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:18 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
On the other, maybe this will spur Hawaii to foster jobs and industries in areas other than tourism.


That is not a quick process in a market economy. IMHO, Hawaii possesses relatively few comparative advantages. Sun, beaches, U.S. legal system, and hospitality - they all supported tourism.
 
Caymanair
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:28 pm

We are remaining closed here in the Cayman Islands until 1st September at least, but it is increasingly likely even after that date we may be highly restricted or completely closed to US tourists for a few months more. Until viable solutions can be identified to protect local populations, or source markets are better able to manage the pandemic, it might be better safe than sorry.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:30 pm

Maybe the could market themselves as the go-to place / bedroom community for all the people who will be working virtually / remotely indefinitely.
Half serious / half joking.
There could be a serious influx of money from the mainland of people moving to the islands and working remotely.
Only probably is somewhat the time difference with the mainland, particularly east coast
 
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NWAESC
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:38 pm

I just saw something similar for Barbados.

Work hours might be okay- start at 0300ish HST, and you're done by 1100. Then it's time to work on your tan...
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
gwrudolph
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:11 pm

Problem is that even if they release the restriction, I think tourism traffic is going to continue to be very minImal. One has to be comfortable flying a minimum of 5.5 hours elbow to ....... to get there
 
KFTG
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:19 pm

There is no vaccine. This only delays the inevitable.
 
nine4nine
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:25 pm

Caymanair wrote:
We are remaining closed here in the Cayman Islands until 1st September at least, but it is increasingly likely even after that date we may be highly restricted or completely closed to US tourists for a few months more. Until viable solutions can be identified to protect local populations, or source markets are better able to manage the pandemic, it might be better safe than sorry.



Lucky you. I’d love to live in Grand Cayman. Definitely my most traveled to destination. 9 trips under my belt. Missing my Cay-Brew and WhiteTip ale and Turtle Stew from Myrtles.

What’s with the CX fleet during this? Has there been an increase in cargo flights as well to bring in goods?


I don’t know how Hawaii will survive a few more months without the massive amount of tourist revenue. HA has to be bleeding cash.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
dfwjim1
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:36 pm

NWAESC wrote:
I just saw something similar for Barbados.

Work hours might be okay- start at 0300ish HST, and you're done by 1100. Then it's time to work on your tan...


A few years ago a friend from Dallas went to Hawaii on a work assignment and he had to be up and ready to work by 3 AM due to his company being on the East Coast. He hated every minute of it as he often had to work way past 11/12 due to his customers in Hawaii.
 
dampfnudel
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:37 pm

I’ll be surprised if they can reopen safely this year. 2020 will be a lost year for Hawai’i and a lot of other tropical & non-tropical travel destinations. 2021-22 will be the recovery years for the tourism industry...hopefully. It looks like Hawaiians will get to enjoy their pleasant tourist-free break a little longer, maybe a lot longer. Of course, for many, that also means no job/little to no income so definitely a double-edged sword here.
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dmurray
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:38 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Maybe the could market themselves as the go-to place / bedroom community for all the people who will be working virtually / remotely indefinitely.
Half serious / half joking.
There could be a serious influx of money from the mainland of people moving to the islands and working remotely.
Only probably is somewhat the time difference with the mainland, particularly east coast


It was probably 10 years ago, but working for a large bank, we had conferences calls between London, Concord CA and Singapore on a regular basis. I forget the exact timings, but they were selected carefully. These calls worked because we had good relationships between the various groups (which were technical computer people). Time zone differences can be handled.
 
devron
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:54 pm

I do not want to start a discussion were the virus came from ect- but What about opening up flights from China to get tourists (or Europe but that is a longer shot) as they have low numbers.
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:57 pm

Without trying to force the thread into politics, the U.S. DOJ is suing to re-open the Hawaiian economy on grounds that it violates the privileges and immunities clause of the Constitution.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/departme ... governor-s
 
joeblow10
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:12 pm

2eng2efficient wrote:
Without trying to force the thread into politics, the U.S. DOJ is suing to re-open the Hawaiian economy on grounds that it violates the privileges and immunities clause of the Constitution.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/departme ... governor-s


Also trying to avoid it with this comment - though I’m sure this will devolve into politics as usual.

I find it very interesting that the DOJ hasn’t been challenging these state by state quarantine measures already on the grounds of interstate commerce... not saying the idea of quarantines are wrong, but it certainly seems to be a good legal challenge
 
txkf2010
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:30 pm

We opened up here in Bermuda, and with the first 2 flights in (AC from YYZ and DL from ATL), immediately we had 4 new cases
 
Prost
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:35 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Maybe the could market themselves as the go-to place / bedroom community for all the people who will be working virtually / remotely indefinitely.
Half serious / half joking.
There could be a serious influx of money from the mainland of people moving to the islands and working remotely.
Only probably is somewhat the time difference with the mainland, particularly east coast


In the early 1960s my mom worked in HNL as one of the ‘girls’ who wrote all the stock prices and what not on boards in the local trading room. They’d send a car for the ‘girls’ to pick them up at 0100 to begin their day. She said it left them a lot of beach time and they had a blast.
 
SoCalFlyer
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:38 pm

How is Hawaiian Airlines doing? Does anyone know, I haven't heard much on them lately. Them being a leisure airline, I imagine this is really hitting them hard. Are they going to be able to survive all this intact, or are they a prime target of being acquired, or something along those lines.
 
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jaybird
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:43 pm

devron wrote:
I do not want to start a discussion were the virus came from ect- but What about opening up flights from China to get tourists (or Europe but that is a longer shot) as they have low numbers.


Sorry what? You want to open up flights between China and Hawaii? You think you can trust any authority in China with what they've said about the virus in the past and what they will say in the future? As someone sitting in Waikiki - my answer is a hard NO!

Right now there is a 14-day quarantine on visitors coming in from the mainland. The reports show anywhere from 400-600 people who classify themselves as tourists arriving every day. Plus there's the "staying with friends/family" category. EVERYONE - visitors and residents are suppose to self-quarantine on arrival. But there's minimal tracing of these people. They're getting caught only because they're stupid enough to post pictures on social media of them having fun around deserted tourist areas.
 
AA747123
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:50 pm

IMHO I dont see Hawaii opening until a vaccine is available. It is just too out of control now.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 7:53 pm

AA747123 wrote:
IMHO I dont see Hawaii opening until a vaccine is available. It is just too out of control now.

Alaska has and they are doing testing at the airport. The cases have gone up but it’s not out of control.
 
Silver1SWA
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:00 pm

32andBelow wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
IMHO I dont see Hawaii opening until a vaccine is available. It is just too out of control now.

Alaska has and they are doing testing at the airport. The cases have gone up but it’s not out of control.


Hawaii has modeled their pre-arrival testing/tracing plan on Alaska’s plan. Unfortunately the necessary resources aren’t in place and there’s been concerning number of rising new cases, especially on Oahu from community spread. Private social gatherings have been a problem since Memorial Day weekend. So as of now they want another month to hopefully contain the current spike and get the resources in place to partially open tourism September 1. I just hope the time is used wisely.
Last edited by Silver1SWA on Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
rampbro
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:06 pm

As the resident of an island currently accepting visitors from the mainland, I know the fear and worry locals are feeling in Hawaii. While it would be nice to say that nothing should happen until there is a vaccine, I also understand that this is an unknown amount of time, and may never actually come to fruition. IMHO the only solution which addresses this is an improvement in testing capacity and the ability to rapidly turn around results, something which requires significant technical and logistical effort. These measures are not only important to allow for limited reopening of society when acceptable levels of morbidity are occurring, but also to validate the efficiency of a vaccine, and to react in the case that it is not fully effective;
 
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airportugal310
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:11 pm

jaybird wrote:
devron wrote:
I do not want to start a discussion were the virus came from ect- but What about opening up flights from China to get tourists (or Europe but that is a longer shot) as they have low numbers.


Sorry what? You want to open up flights between China and Hawaii? You think you can trust any authority in China with what they've said about the virus in the past and what they will say in the future? As someone sitting in Waikiki - my answer is a hard NO!

Right now there is a 14-day quarantine on visitors coming in from the mainland. The reports show anywhere from 400-600 people who classify themselves as tourists arriving every day. Plus there's the "staying with friends/family" category. EVERYONE - visitors and residents are suppose to self-quarantine on arrival. But there's minimal tracing of these people. They're getting caught only because they're stupid enough to post pictures on social media of them having fun around deserted tourist areas.


Fully agree...even if we ignore everything else about China, Chinese tourists weren't coming to Hawaii in great numbers even during peak tourism. Air China and Hawaiian both nixed their PEK flights over a year ago, and China Eastern from PVG was barely holding on (and is also now gone for good). The thing that Chinese tourists brought was money, really.

The Japanese tourists are probably the best thing Hawaii had going for it.
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
ScottB
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 8:30 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
On the other, maybe this will spur Hawaii to foster jobs and industries in areas other than tourism.


There's not really much in the way of industry for which Hawaii is well-suited aside from tourism. Cost of living is very high thanks to the need to transport most food, material, and goods to the islands via air. Real estate costs are also very high but that might change if tourism and second homes are no longer a viable market sector. Manufacturing just won't be competitive and neither will agriculture, especially when competing with countries/regions with lower-wage workers. Agriculture in California, for example, would be a disaster without low-paid migrants or undocumented workers -- and Hawaii has access to neither.

The service sector might have some prospects but again Hawaii would compete with lower-cost regions in the Midwest, West, South, Southwest -- not to mention foreign countries like India or the Philippines.

NWAESC wrote:
Work hours might be okay- start at 0300ish HST, and you're done by 1100. Then it's time to work on your tan...


0200 in the summer if you're working with a company on the East Coast that starts work at 0800 EDT. It really sounds like working on the graveyard shift. Been there, done that, sent back the postcards and it sucks for your social life. Why bother with a tan if you never get to show it off?

dmurray wrote:
It was probably 10 years ago, but working for a large bank, we had conferences calls between London, Concord CA and Singapore on a regular basis. I forget the exact timings, but they were selected carefully. These calls worked because we had good relationships between the various groups (which were technical computer people). Time zone differences can be handled.


They can but there are very limited windows and usually at least one location has to participate at a time well outside business hours. The time difference between HI and CA is pretty reasonable and I can easily see people being willing to work from 0600 to 1400 from home for a West Coast-based company -- but new residents in a work-from-home role don't generate the same sort of economic impact (read, jobs) as tourists spending $300-500/day on hotels, restaurants, golf, rentals, tours, attractions, etc. Worse, these remote workers would compete for housing with locals left jobless in the event of a complete implosion of the tourism industry.
 
tys777
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:10 pm

please keep the politics out of this thread or it will need to be locked.

There are appropriate threads in non aviation if you want to discuss the political aspects of these decisions.

Thank you

Tys777
 
2eng2efficient
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 9:39 pm

rampbro wrote:
As the resident of an island currently accepting visitors from the mainland, I know the fear and worry locals are feeling in Hawaii. While it would be nice to say that nothing should happen until there is a vaccine, I also understand that this is an unknown amount of time, and may never actually come to fruition. IMHO the only solution which addresses this is an improvement in testing capacity and the ability to rapidly turn around results, something which requires significant technical and logistical effort. These measures are not only important to allow for limited reopening of society when acceptable levels of morbidity are occurring, but also to validate the efficiency of a vaccine, and to react in the case that it is not fully effective;


Indeed Hawaii is perhaps the most extreme example of a place caught between a rock and a hard place with Covid. On one hand, you have a disproportionate amount of the economy dependent on tourism and the knock-on impact to other industries (think Hawaiian Airlines), and on the other hand, the fact that it is an island with several demographical vulnerabilities to a pandemic (i.e. highest per capita homelessness rates, access to health care, etc). I don’t envy them.

In case you missed it, HA filed an 8-K disclosure on July 10 of continued “significant operating losses” and a planned 10-15% reduction in headcount.

https://newsroom.hawaiianairlines.com/i ... ns/filings
 
pdxswa
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:06 pm

Having lived in the islands for a number of years. It is a sad day reading about this. When Hawaii is dependent upon tourism for its economy. There was talk of bubbles for visitors from Korea and Japan where the numbers are low. Japan and Korea bring a lot money into the islands. This never panned out .Most Hawaii visitors come from the west coast. Arizona, California. It was inevitable that this was going to happen. Reading about in the media what was going to be implemented. A negative Covid-19 test 72 hours prior to departure. Further every visitor who tested negative would be tracked for the duration of their stay in the islands. This tracking would be from the CARES ACT money. I hope all these small businesses will survive. Hawaiian has taken money under the CARES ACT. I really hope they can survive.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:09 pm

ScottB wrote:
They can but there are very limited windows and usually at least one location has to participate at a time well outside business hours. The time difference between HI and CA is pretty reasonable and I can easily see people being willing to work from 0600 to 1400 from home for a West Coast-based company -- but new residents in a work-from-home role don't generate the same sort of economic impact (read, jobs) as tourists spending $300-500/day on hotels, restaurants, golf, rentals, tours, attractions, etc. Worse, these remote workers would compete for housing with locals left jobless in the event of a complete implosion of the tourism industry.


This is a real fear for many resort / tourism based economies in the near-term. With the rapid shift to a virtual workforce, particularly for tech-based companies, there is a fear they will inundate some of these towns that were based on a tourism economy and outprice the "locals" and service industry workers that help support such economy.
The reality is now if all these tech workers flee places like SFO, SJC, LAX, SEA, AUS, etc and move to mountain or beach towns they will drive-up the real estate market, force locals out, make it increasing unaffordable for those supporting the tourism and service industry and messing up the housing market.

Like said, they don't put as much money in the local economy either as tourists.

Very double-edged sword for these places if this happens en-masse.

A lot of people are going to want to live the insta-lifestyle. The reality is going to be these remote/virtual jobs aren't as rock-solid as people believe, and eventually the pay will likely decrease as many are so high to compensate for cost of living in expensive markets, and a whole other slew of issues arises when workforce/employment is decoupled from geography.
 
Aptivaboy
Topic Author
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:13 pm

That is not a quick process in a market economy. IMHO, Hawaii possesses relatively few comparative advantages.


True, and I wasn't suggesting that it was. The thing is, Hawaii has a lot going for it in terms of agriculture, but with the rundown of the sugar and pineapple industries, the state is even more dependent upon tourism. Toss in a fairly corrupt state and local governmental system where money can buy literally anything for wealthy developers and resort owners, and its a serious recipe for an even bigger disaster. A statewide initiative to promote and foster local businesses over the long term, including agriculture, as opposed to building yet another branded resort, might be a positive place to start. Just surmising...
 
Aither
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:18 am

Honolulu needs more infrastructure, in particular public transport. This may be the good time for such investment.
In the Philippines a few month ago they closed a major touristic destination to clean everything and make the destination more "premium" and efficient.

Regarding home office, if it becomes as big as some imagine it will have big impacts on air travel (traffic volumes & destinations). However I don't buy the "home office revolution". For many reasons. One of which is many people working from home will realize they are putting their job & career at risk. If a company can work with their white collars not at the office, then why not having the white collars in Bangalore ?
Never trust the obvious
 
32andBelow
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:35 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
ScottB wrote:
They can but there are very limited windows and usually at least one location has to participate at a time well outside business hours. The time difference between HI and CA is pretty reasonable and I can easily see people being willing to work from 0600 to 1400 from home for a West Coast-based company -- but new residents in a work-from-home role don't generate the same sort of economic impact (read, jobs) as tourists spending $300-500/day on hotels, restaurants, golf, rentals, tours, attractions, etc. Worse, these remote workers would compete for housing with locals left jobless in the event of a complete implosion of the tourism industry.


This is a real fear for many resort / tourism based economies in the near-term. With the rapid shift to a virtual workforce, particularly for tech-based companies, there is a fear they will inundate some of these towns that were based on a tourism economy and outprice the "locals" and service industry workers that help support such economy.
The reality is now if all these tech workers flee places like SFO, SJC, LAX, SEA, AUS, etc and move to mountain or beach towns they will drive-up the real estate market, force locals out, make it increasing unaffordable for those supporting the tourism and service industry and messing up the housing market.

Like said, they don't put as much money in the local economy either as tourists.

Very double-edged sword for these places if this happens en-masse.

A lot of people are going to want to live the insta-lifestyle. The reality is going to be these remote/virtual jobs aren't as rock-solid as people believe, and eventually the pay will likely decrease as many are so high to compensate for cost of living in expensive markets, and a whole othering slew of issues arises when workforce/employment is decoupled from geography.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see everyone back in the office after the vaccine. This utopia hasn’t happened yet.
 
chrisair
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:51 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
The reality is now if all these tech workers flee places like SFO, SJC, LAX, SEA, AUS, etc and move to mountain or beach towns they will drive-up the real estate market, force locals out, make it increasing unaffordable for those supporting the tourism and service industry and messing up the housing market.


This has already happened in Hawaii. Locals are frequently out priced by mainlanders.

On the subject of work hours, a friend of mine lives in Maui and works for an Arizona company. His work day is 5a-1p ish.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:27 am

32andBelow wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
ScottB wrote:
They can but there are very limited windows and usually at least one location has to participate at a time well outside business hours. The time difference between HI and CA is pretty reasonable and I can easily see people being willing to work from 0600 to 1400 from home for a West Coast-based company -- but new residents in a work-from-home role don't generate the same sort of economic impact (read, jobs) as tourists spending $300-500/day on hotels, restaurants, golf, rentals, tours, attractions, etc. Worse, these remote workers would compete for housing with locals left jobless in the event of a complete implosion of the tourism industry.


This is a real fear for many resort / tourism based economies in the near-term. With the rapid shift to a virtual workforce, particularly for tech-based companies, there is a fear they will inundate some of these towns that were based on a tourism economy and outprice the "locals" and service industry workers that help support such economy.
The reality is now if all these tech workers flee places like SFO, SJC, LAX, SEA, AUS, etc and move to mountain or beach towns they will drive-up the real estate market, force locals out, make it increasing unaffordable for those supporting the tourism and service industry and messing up the housing market.

Like said, they don't put as much money in the local economy either as tourists.

Very double-edged sword for these places if this happens en-masse.

A lot of people are going to want to live the insta-lifestyle. The reality is going to be these remote/virtual jobs aren't as rock-solid as people believe, and eventually the pay will likely decrease as many are so high to compensate for cost of living in expensive markets, and a whole othering slew of issues arises when workforce/employment is decoupled from geography.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see everyone back in the office after the vaccine. This utopia hasn’t happened yet.

What is the efficiency. We benchmark our work, so we know the relative productivity of various job functions and people teleworking. I pretty much have my team working 2/3rds in the office, a third at home as all teleworking had poor productivity. People were logged off when needed "hot jobs" and I cannot personally call everyone yo remind them of their jobs.

It isn't just my team. I actually received an award for unusually good telework productivity. But I know my team was achieving half the earned value per week of pre-Covid19.

I also know that for layoffs, it is much harder to fire that person who is doing the job no one else wants to do, so has become the only one good at that job. Right now that is coming in to the office and doing the dozens of organizational tasks.

Lightsaber
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
ScottB
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:28 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
The thing is, Hawaii has a lot going for it in terms of agriculture, but with the rundown of the sugar and pineapple industries, the state is even more dependent upon tourism.


Unfortunately, Hawaii doesn't have that much going for it agriculturally, and that is why the sugar and pineapple industries are dead. Hawaii is far from external (to the islands) markets and labor costs are extremely high. There's no way Hawaii can compete with producers with much, much lower costs in less-developed countries like Costa Rica or Brazil. Certain high-value crops -- like macadamias and coffee -- can work, although increases in production of these could potentially damage the pricing of Hawaii-sourced coffee and macadamias which are currently perceived to be luxury items.

The smaller islands without easy access to the mainland have moribund economies. One-third of Moloka'i residents are on food stamps. Hilo is a fascinating place to visit but it's not really where you want to go to soak up the sun on a beach, so Hilo and the areas around it are some of the least wealthy in Hawaii.
 
LTCM
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 3:59 pm

lightsaber wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

This is a real fear for many resort / tourism based economies in the near-term. With the rapid shift to a virtual workforce, particularly for tech-based companies, there is a fear they will inundate some of these towns that were based on a tourism economy and outprice the "locals" and service industry workers that help support such economy.
The reality is now if all these tech workers flee places like SFO, SJC, LAX, SEA, AUS, etc and move to mountain or beach towns they will drive-up the real estate market, force locals out, make it increasing unaffordable for those supporting the tourism and service industry and messing up the housing market.

Like said, they don't put as much money in the local economy either as tourists.

Very double-edged sword for these places if this happens en-masse.

A lot of people are going to want to live the insta-lifestyle. The reality is going to be these remote/virtual jobs aren't as rock-solid as people believe, and eventually the pay will likely decrease as many are so high to compensate for cost of living in expensive markets, and a whole othering slew of issues arises when workforce/employment is decoupled from geography.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see everyone back in the office after the vaccine. This utopia hasn’t happened yet.

What is the efficiency. We benchmark our work, so we know the relative productivity of various job functions and people teleworking. I pretty much have my team working 2/3rds in the office, a third at home as all teleworking had poor productivity. People were logged off when needed "hot jobs" and I cannot personally call everyone yo remind them of their jobs.

It isn't just my team. I actually received an award for unusually good telework productivity. But I know my team was achieving half the earned value per week of pre-Covid19.

I also know that for layoffs, it is much harder to fire that person who is doing the job no one else wants to do, so has become the only one good at that job. Right now that is coming in to the office and doing the dozens of organizational tasks.

Lightsaber


One factor that you are not taking into account is childcare. At our company we have conducted surveys and by far the greatest distraction for wfh is childcare. Schools, daycare, camps - all closed during covid.

Telework might not 100% but it's also not 50%, at least during times of stability.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:35 pm

The topic is Hawaiian air travel. General Covid19 discussion belongs in non-av.

Lightsaber
Moderator
Airliners.net


Ps,
I post this as I wanted to reply and realized I would have taken this thread too far off topic.
Flu+Covid19 is bad. Consider a flu vaccine, if not for yourself, to protect someone you care about.
 
Miamiairport
Posts: 665
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:14 pm

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 4:53 pm

Tough to hear with prime time tourist season coming up.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3721
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 5:13 pm

Miamiairport wrote:
Tough to hear with prime time tourist season coming up.


Summer is peak travel for Hawaii. With August now eliminated from opportunity, the industry will stumble into September at the beginning of one of the travel troughs. Thanksgiving through New Years is the next hope for anything close to normal.
 
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stl07
Posts: 2454
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 6:02 pm

KFTG wrote:
There is no vaccine. This only delays the inevitable.

Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3154
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:09 pm

azjubilee wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Tough to hear with prime time tourist season coming up.


Summer is peak travel for Hawaii. With August now eliminated from opportunity, the industry will stumble into September at the beginning of one of the travel troughs. Thanksgiving through New Years is the next hope for anything close to normal.


With borders being closed until the fall, this will be a long painful recovery for Hawaii.
lightsaber wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:

This is a real fear for many resort / tourism based economies in the near-term. With the rapid shift to a virtual workforce, particularly for tech-based companies, there is a fear they will inundate some of these towns that were based on a tourism economy and outprice the "locals" and service industry workers that help support such economy.
The reality is now if all these tech workers flee places like SFO, SJC, LAX, SEA, AUS, etc and move to mountain or beach towns they will drive-up the real estate market, force locals out, make it increasing unaffordable for those supporting the tourism and service industry and messing up the housing market.

Like said, they don't put as much money in the local economy either as tourists.

Very double-edged sword for these places if this happens en-masse.

A lot of people are going to want to live the insta-lifestyle. The reality is going to be these remote/virtual jobs aren't as rock-solid as people believe, and eventually the pay will likely decrease as many are so high to compensate for cost of living in expensive markets, and a whole othering slew of issues arises when workforce/employment is decoupled from geography.

I also wouldn’t be surprised to see everyone back in the office after the vaccine. This utopia hasn’t happened yet.

What vaccine? They are not anywhere near a vaccine that is effective and proven. You talk like you can just come out with a pill that will solve everything. I don't want anything to do with a rushed, unproven poison inside of me.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4944
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:37 pm

brilondon wrote:
azjubilee wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Tough to hear with prime time tourist season coming up.


Summer is peak travel for Hawaii. With August now eliminated from opportunity, the industry will stumble into September at the beginning of one of the travel troughs. Thanksgiving through New Years is the next hope for anything close to normal.


With borders being closed until the fall, this will be a long painful recovery for Hawaii.
lightsaber wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I also wouldn’t be surprised to see everyone back in the office after the vaccine. This utopia hasn’t happened yet.

What vaccine? They are not anywhere near a vaccine that is effective and proven. You talk like you can just come out with a pill that will solve everything. I don't want anything to do with a rushed, unproven poison inside of me.

There’s several vaccines in stage 3 testing that produce immune responses. Wether you want to believe it is on you.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:57 pm

stl07 wrote:
Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


Mostly done? Done with what?
 
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stl07
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Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:20 am

IPFreely wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


Mostly done? Done with what?

The virus. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52961539

Hawaii is trying to reach the same goal and only has about 30 cases right now
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14473
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:35 am

stl07 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


Mostly done? Done with what?

The virus. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52961539

Hawaii is trying to reach the same goal and only has about 30 cases right now


You’ve lost me. You are citing places that have nearly eradicated the virus by closing their borders. There’s zero evidence that those levels will remain once borders reopen. And places like Hawaii and New Zealand have so little healthcare infrastructure that they really had no choice.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Silver1SWA
Posts: 4681
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 6:11 pm

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 3:35 am

stl07 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


Mostly done? Done with what?

The virus. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52961539

Hawaii is trying to reach the same goal and only has about 30 cases right now


Say what? Hawaii was down to 25 active cases a month ago but things have spiked with 20-30 new cases a day for the past few weeks. Active cases around 320 right now.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
seat1a
Posts: 606
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:00 am

What can we expect from HA? Big layoffs? International is in the toilet for the rest of the year. Thoughts?
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 2454
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:08 am

Silver1SWA wrote:
stl07 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:

Mostly done? Done with what?

The virus. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52961539

Hawaii is trying to reach the same goal and only has about 30 cases right now


Say what? Hawaii was down to 25 active cases a month ago but things have spiked with 20-30 new cases a day for the past few weeks. Active cases around 320 right now.

yea, meaning it is not time to reopen right now. Maybe I should have been clearer originally by saying 30 new cases a day instead of just "30"
Instead of typing in "mods", consider using the report function.
Love how every "travel blogger" says they will never fly AA/Ethihad again and then says it again and again on subsequent flights.
 
melpax
Posts: 2048
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 12:13 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:25 am

stl07 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
There is no vaccine. This only delays the inevitable.

Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


We're certainly not done with it here in OZ, with Melbourne back in stage 3 lockdown, and a strong possibility of having stage 4 measures imposed, as well as being isolated from the rest of the country. Sydney is also at risk of having a lockdown reimposed.

Back to topic, sadly looks like any Australia-Hawaii holiday travel will most likely not happen until 2022, or until the outbreak in the Continental US is brought under control. However if Hawaii continues with quarantine measures for those coming from Mainland US, then there might be a possibility of Hawaii being part of the proposed NZ/Pacific travel bubble with Australia, but this probably won't be until early/mid 2021 with what's happening in Melbourne & Sydney.
Essendon - Whatever it takes......
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4944
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:43 am

melpax wrote:
stl07 wrote:
KFTG wrote:
There is no vaccine. This only delays the inevitable.

Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


We're certainly not done with it here in OZ, with Melbourne back in stage 3 lockdown, and a strong possibility of having stage 4 measures imposed, as well as being isolated from the rest of the country. Sydney is also at risk of having a lockdown reimposed.

Back to topic, sadly looks like any Australia-Hawaii holiday travel will most likely not happen until 2022, or until the outbreak in the Continental US is brought under control. However if Hawaii continues with quarantine measures for those coming from Mainland US, then there might be a possibility of Hawaii being part of the proposed NZ/Pacific travel bubble with Australia, but this probably won't be until early/mid 2021 with what's happening in Melbourne & Sydney.

Vaccine well before 2022 Moderna oxford pfzer Astro Zeneca etc.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2604
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Hawaii reopening delayed until Sep. 1

Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:16 pm

stl07 wrote:
IPFreely wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Tell that to Australia, NZ, and Thailand.... Oh wait, they are mostly done and consumer confidence is being restored


Mostly done? Done with what?

The virus.


I guess you don't realize that these countries closed their borders early and have kept them closed. Nothing is "restored".

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