1. Aeroflot brand will handle only long haul and premium routes.
2. Pobeda will handle all medium haul routes, focusing on low cost service for promoting new flyers among Russians. All Boeing 737s from Aeroflot will be transferred to Pobeda.
3. Rossiya will get all the SSJs and MC21s from Aeroflot, will be used to promote socially-driven routes and use an almost all Russian fleet of 250 (235 airframes will be either SSJs or MC-21s.)
4. Aurora shares will most likely be sold.

https://www.aviapages.ru/news/214616-vi ... -2028-goda

Weird news. They say SU will only keep widebodies, 737s will be transferred to DP and Russian-made planes to FV but what will become of the A320s?

Also, if SU only keeps widebodies, does that mean they will fly widebodies to Paris and London? Or that Pobeda will take over CDG and LHR flights? Seriously?

workhorse wrote:

Weird news. They say SU will only keep widebodies, 737s will be transferred to DP and Russian-made planes to FV but what will become of the A320s?

Also, if SU only keeps widebodies, does that mean they will fly widebodies to Paris and London? Or that Pobeda will take over CDG and LHR flights? Seriously?

It clearly said in the first sentence: 1. Aeroflot brand will handle only long haul and premium routes.

So it is not ONLY Long-haul.

Flights to European financial hubs like London, Paris and Frankfurt would be PREMIUM ROUTES. As well as St. Petersburg in domestic routes.

workhorse wrote:

Weird news. They say SU will only keep widebodies, 737s will be transferred to DP and Russian-made planes to FV but what will become of the A320s?

Also, if SU only keeps widebodies, does that mean they will fly widebodies to Paris and London? Or that Pobeda will take over CDG and LHR flights? Seriously?

The already regularly use A330s to LHR so I guess this will be expanded.

I can understand the change from a Russian domestic travel point of view, but the only brand that is well known internationally is Aeroflot. The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service, though this might be compensated for by the increase of Russian budget travellers on these flights.

mxaxai wrote:

The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service.

Why would that happen? Because of lowest brand recognition?
Is it really going to be a problem considering those flights will most probably be code-shared and, as such, be sold as "Aeroflot by Rossiya"?

Toinou wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service.

Why would that happen? Because of lowest brand recognition?
Is it really going to be a problem considering those flights will most probably be code-shared and, as such, be sold as "Aeroflot by Rossiya"?

True that could work. I was under the impression that these flight would be sold under the Rossyia / Pobeda brand to cater to new customers.

For comparison, I don't think it would work well if BA transferred their European network to LEVEL and marketed it under that brand, or if BA Cityflyer wasn't closely affiliated with BA mainline.

mxaxai wrote:

I can understand the change from a Russian domestic travel point of view, but the only brand that is well known internationally is Aeroflot. The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service, though this might be compensated for by the increase of Russian budget travellers on these flights.

Just paint them up like a US regional - in Aeroflot livery with the small "Operated by Podeba" up front and 99% of passengers won't know its not Aeroflot mainline.

They will probably keep around 40 A320-321s for the typical Paris/Frankfurt/Rome kind of flights, replaced by NEO's later. They are already shrinking their A320 fleet for a while. If the MC-21 is really good and safe they might end up using them to permium routes but I don't expect it to happen tbh. It's a bit back to where they were around 2000; western equipment to western Europe and Ilyushins and Tupolevs domestic and non premium international like BEY, LCA, RIX and such.

Might also have an impact on Skyteam FF's if they decide to have DP operate "non-premium" short/medium routes to Moscow ... many people are choosing SU to Asia and Skyteam FF's won’t be happy with this move.

I’ve flown on the SSJ many times from SCO or GOJ to SVO and then connected to EU destinations ... right-sized plane for these 2nd/3rd tier cities for Moscow frequencies.

DP was set up for low-cost ... and now they are mixing it with SU mainline ? Doesn’t make sense to me. They were announcing to transform FV into mainline IIRC which would be a great move for LED and Skyteam FF's.

Did they ever commit to the NEO?

First of all, in Russia big plans are seldom implemented exactly as are officially announced. So, this change might not turn out exactly as planned. I think, this is the way for Aeroflot to keep the Russian-made aircraft not under its own name. They are forced to buy them but do not really want. So, they will keep long-haul planes and most of A320s in Aeroflot, and tranfer smaller cities and some other frequencies to Rossiya that will fly SSJ-100s, MC-21s and some A320s. But they will definitely keep flying under Aeroflot name to all major cities both domestically and in Europe. Meanwhile, they will keep increasing the share of Pobeda semi low-cost flights in all markets where they can. This way they can compete successfully against other Russian companies.

gatibosgru wrote:

Did they ever commit to the NEO?

The first A320neo for AFL is already painted in TLS.

A321Lufthansa wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

Did they ever commit to the NEO?

The first A320neo for AFL is already painted in TLS.

In the previous livery, not the new one like the A350s.

-Rowen

So how is codesharing with Skyteam supposed to work? Fly to Moscow in J then connect on 'Podeba' in LCC format??

Varsity1 wrote:

So how is codesharing with Skyteam supposed to work? Fly to Moscow in J then connect on 'Podeba' in LCC format??

I suppose most hub-connector flights and routes relevant to that will see mainline Aeroflot service, so no issues. I also guess some routes will see a mix of, say, just 1 daily Aeroflot and 2 Rossiya flights as opposed to 3 Aeroflot flights, so would in effect just see less premium flights rather than none at all.

As for connections onto Skyteam, it really isn't different from how Oneworld can connect you onto Vueling, or Star Alliance onto Eurowings, is it? In Skyteam it is even possible to get stuck on a Transavia flight.

gdg9 wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

I can understand the change from a Russian domestic travel point of view, but the only brand that is well known internationally is Aeroflot. The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service, though this might be compensated for by the increase of Russian budget travellers on these flights.

Just paint them up like a US regional - in Aeroflot livery with the small "Operated by Podeba" up front and 99% of passengers won't know its not Aeroflot mainline.

The myths "Passengers won't know it's a step down from mainline" and "Nobody cares what kind of aircraft they're on" are generally false. Only the most ignorant among travelers do not know what's up, so I'd say the number is closer to 15-20%. Not negligible but clearly not the majority. People are much savvier than they used to be and will specifically look for the aircraft and carrier they want. In the Russian market, the use of regional jets is likely to downgrade the level of service to which people are accustomed, and in other CIS countries, they will be more likely to fly local carriers to the points in Russia they serve.

That's interesting. Boy, I'd love for the Russians to remove tourist visa requirements for up to 30 days... I always wanted to go to Russia and visit, but the hassle of going through obtaining a VISA is not worth it. I understand that they need to reciprocate with other countries requiring visas for Russian citizens, but in the end, it hurts the tourism in Russia.

Vio wrote:

That's interesting. Boy, I'd love for the Russians to remove tourist visa requirements for up to 30 days... I always wanted to go to Russia and visit, but the hassle of going through obtaining a VISA is not worth it. I understand that they need to reciprocate with other countries requiring visas for Russian citizens, but in the end, it hurts the tourism in Russia.

Russia has a long-time policy of allowing visa-free travel only for citizen of countries that sign a treaty with Russia and allow Russians to enter vithout a visa. However, in Russia there is a plan to introduce electronic visas that will be substantially easier to get. Still, no one knows when and if this plan will realized in the post-COVID world.

As I understand, the move is related to the Far East airline initiative more than anything else and of course the change in the industry as a whole because of COVID-19, please do not begin the same BS against the SSJ or MC-21 brand damage to AFL, both aircraft are much more modern and comfier than Airbus or Boeings they have today. As a matter of fact, the SSJ was the main flyer during the shutdown in May and part of June, so it proved its worth quite a bit. I understand the new layout is for the new airframes only, so I am guessing the 54 SSJs already flying for Aeroflot will stay with the existing 12C+75Y and probably be used on the existing routes with codeshare between Aeroflot and Rossiya. It is just the new 100+ on order that will go to Rossiya with the 100 seats and probably be used for the new Far East route development program, also notice the new layout got rid of one of three WCs Aeroflot used in their SU95s. For the MC-21, I do understand they want to teeth out the problems within Russian destinations at first, it makes perfect sense to do it this way, but the article also mentions once it is ready they will also be used by Aeroflot and Pobeda as well. I do wonder what the layout will be for the MC-21 though, we could see the massive 211 seat layout present on test vehicle 004 for Rossiya. Definitely a very interesting change of direction.

res77W wrote:

A321Lufthansa wrote:

gatibosgru wrote:

Did they ever commit to the NEO?

The first A320neo for AFL is already painted in TLS.

In the previous livery, not the new one like the A350s.

-Rowen

Yes, they decided to keep the new livery A350-exclusive. Weird... Same goes for their future 77Ws (2 of them, VQ-BFN/O, have already made their first flights).

https://onemileatatime.com/aeroflot-shr ... %20Airline
This article states that Aeroflot will keep its A320 family aircraft, so should we expect the airline to continue operating on all current A320-operated European routes?

gdg9 wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

I can understand the change from a Russian domestic travel point of view, but the only brand that is well known internationally is Aeroflot. The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service, though this might be compensated for by the increase of Russian budget travellers on these flights.

Just paint them up like a US regional - in Aeroflot livery with the small "Operated by Podeba" up front and 99% of passengers won't know its not Aeroflot mainline.

I think those flying Business class from Western Europe - Moscow - Asia will definitely realize that something is wrong and the proper Business Class has gone. Thats gonna cost Aeroflot quite some Business traffic between Europe and Asia. Flying "Business" in Economy seats with middle seat empty on a short 30-40 minute domestic flight to Frankfurt to catch a long haul flight to Asia is one thing, but flying 3 hours like this all the way to Moscow is something different -- if you paid for Business.

I guess as mentioned the top business class cities in Europe with Asia connections will remain. I hope Aeroflot keeps upgrading their business class to 1-2-1 like their A350 as they are the value leader in Europe to Asia and some expansions (BOM KIX and SIN)

workhorse wrote:

Weird news. They say SU will only keep widebodies, 737s will be transferred to DP and Russian-made planes to FV but what will become of the A320s?

Also, if SU only keeps widebodies, does that mean they will fly widebodies to Paris and London? Or that Pobeda will take over CDG and LHR flights? Seriously?

It makes a LOT of sense, given the current environment.

Aeroflot stays state-supported, and maintains International services, even at a loss. (I am sure this is a huge reduction in state-supported staffing, as well)
Does this include International Cargo as well?

It doesn't compete against the domestic carriers, and allows market forces to dictate the capacities. They are looking to a very different future than what was being planned for just 4 short months ago.

Does this kill not only the KJA hub, but the other, unannounced regional hubs SU was planning to relieve MOW traffic and stimulate regional traffic? I would presume not, given the state of the industry. Would've been nice to see their proposed plans. Russia's far too big to rely on one or two megahubs.

Is the Rossyia brand still going to be collapsed into the Aeroflot brand? I recall something along those lines being announced awhile ago.

Vio wrote:

That's interesting. Boy, I'd love for the Russians to remove tourist visa requirements for up to 30 days... I always wanted to go to Russia and visit, but the hassle of going through obtaining a VISA is not worth it. I understand that they need to reciprocate with other countries requiring visas for Russian citizens, but in the end, it hurts the tourism in Russia.

There/s visa free travel for St Petersburg for the vast majority of Europeans on shorts trips these days - it's actually a lot easier than visiting the USA. Moscow will soon follow. Obviously Brits and Americans excluded ...

eal wrote:

Is the Rossyia brand still going to be collapsed into the Aeroflot brand? I recall something along those lines being announced awhile ago.

Everything you have heard before is being sent to the trash bin, this is a complete RESET of their strategy up to the year 2030.

Varsity1 wrote:

So how is codesharing with Skyteam supposed to work? Fly to Moscow in J then connect on 'Podeba' in LCC format??

That's not unique in the business. I have seen Delta passengers connect to certain Transavia (HV) routes KLM doesn't fly to.

USPIT10L wrote:

Does this kill not only the KJA hub, but the other, unannounced regional hubs SU was planning to relieve MOW traffic and stimulate regional traffic? I would presume not, given the state of the industry. Would've been nice to see their proposed plans. Russia's far too big to rely on one or two megahubs.

Looks like my question was answered a month and a half ago.....SU kicked the KJA hub can down the road to next June. I did a little google search for a Krasnoyarsk hub and found this out.

This is just the next logical step in Aeroflot’s previously announced strategy of focusing on East-West transfer traffic akin to Finnair. The domestic market is being relegated to lower cost brands, in order not to dilute the Aeroflot brand.

I'm somewhat suprised the excess domestic capacity is being shifted to Pobeda instead of Rossiya. If I understand correctly, Rossiya's whole purpose is to provide a lower level of cost and service compares to Aeroflot without being a LCC (i.e. Pobeda.). Almost like boarding a Delta Connection or American Eagle and realizing that it's a lower quality flight (at a cheaper cost to AA/DL) but not shifting the capacity to whatever a modern US MetroJet operation would be. Aeroflot's business customers (plus the wealthier Russians), especially those outside Moscow, are going to miss their former service levels, frequent flyer benefits, and SkyTeam memberships.

2 cents? S7 has an opportunity to grab more domestic business travel. Investing in more connections across the continent and a better international business network would help them take on Aeroflot even more. (Heck, if they're really looking to grow, they could buy Ural Airlines...assuming that COVID leaves either one standing/with money)

Galwayman wrote:

There/s visa free travel for St Petersburg for the vast majority of Europeans on shorts trips these days - it's actually a lot easier than visiting the USA. Moscow will soon follow. Obviously Brits and Americans excluded ...

Visa free is there if you are arriving with a cruise. Speaking of visa-free travel - there is reciprocity principle, Russia and EU/US need to negotiate mutual visa free entry.

PANAMsterdam wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

So how is codesharing with Skyteam supposed to work? Fly to Moscow in J then connect on 'Podeba' in LCC format??

That's not unique in the business. I have seen Delta passengers connect to certain Transavia (HV) routes KLM doesn't fly to.

This is what I thought too and it didn't make any sense to me.

gdg9 wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

I can understand the change from a Russian domestic travel point of view, but the only brand that is well known internationally is Aeroflot. The SSJ are used to serve various smaller airports in central and eastern Europe, these will suffer from the change to Rossyia. O&D traffic originating at the destinations served by Pobeda will also be less compared to Aeroflot service, though this might be compensated for by the increase of Russian budget travelers on these flights.

Just paint them up like a US regional - in Aeroflot livery with the small "Operated by Podeba" up front and 99% of passengers won't know its not Aeroflot mainline.

Everyone in Russia knows that Pobeda and Rossiya are actually Aeroflot. The latter mainly was big news since it was basically the "rescue" plan for the now defunct Transaero.

It does not really matter how the aircrafts are painted. Only the perception is that you are travelling on a "cheap" Aeroflot.

But from a Russian perspective, this does work because it gives the false impression that we have a competitive market when, in fact, we do not. Interestingly, Rossiya was the brand used for some of their European Flights - incl to LGW from LED - whilst Pobeda would only fly within Russia. This looks to be the main switch. Pobeda's product is definitely lower than Rossiya so it seems that they will reverse this somehow.

As for Aeroflot, they will NOT operate only Long Haul. Any premium route within Europe and Asia (as well as domestic) will have an Aeroflot aircraft so at least part of their NB planes will still remain (I believe that's why only the B737s are being moved around to Pobeda and the SSJs to Rossiya...).

ahj2000 wrote:

2 cents? S7 has an opportunity to grab more domestic business travel. Investing in more connections across the continent and a better international business network would help them take on Aeroflot even more. (Heck, if they're really looking to grow, they could buy Ural Airlines...assuming that COVID leaves either one standing/with money)

Only that S7 already has Globus Airlines which even flies for them on the DOM-LED route for example... They are following the same suit. Also, in future, it will be very easy for Aeroflot to review the route plan, "promoting" this or that route from Pobeda/Rossiya to mainline if they so wish...

anrec80 wrote:

Galwayman wrote:

There/s visa free travel for St Petersburg for the vast majority of Europeans on shorts trips these days - it's actually a lot easier than visiting the USA. Moscow will soon follow. Obviously Brits and Americans excluded ...

Visa free is there if you are arriving with a cruise. Speaking of visa-free travel - there is reciprocity principle, Russia and EU/US need to negotiate mutual visa free entry.

Correct! The Electronic VISA is more of an upgrade of the current system for those that need to apply in advance so that, rather than a stamp on their passports, you get into the same process as, for example, Australia does. Kind of a mixture of full VISA and ESTA.

I do not see VISA-Free travel for US and EU citizens for the foreseeable future.

seansasLCY wrote:

The already regularly use A330s to LHR so I guess this will be expanded.

True, but I think I haven't seen a 330 in LHR since a while (even before the pandemic). And the last SU widebody in CDG was an A310, 20 years ago. On the other hand, pre-Covid they had something like 4 or 5 32S a day. Will they replace them with one or two 330s? Premium traffic likes frequency.

workhorse wrote:

seansasLCY wrote:

The already regularly use A330s to LHR so I guess this will be expanded.

True, but I think I haven't seen a 330 in LHR since a while (even before the pandemic). And the last SU widebody in CDG was an A310, 20 years ago. On the other hand, pre-Covid they had something like 4 or 5 32S a day. Will they replace them with one or two 330s? Premium traffic likes frequency.

They have been using them during recent weeks. Today’s flight is a 777-300ER. Over the past weeks flights have been operated by 777, A333, A321 and A320.

So the "socially driven route" for Rossiya mean regional/commuter route in other airlines?
So there will be a mainline airlines, a LCC, and then a regional airlines? I guess that make sense, and is not too different from what many other airlines are doing.

BTW, what is a "socially-driven route"?

I'm guessing the Rossiya A319's would be returned/retired as MC-21's come onboard.

What is a "Socially driven route"? Leisure heavy? Point to Point? Flights to cities in Belarus, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, etc. from Moscow/other gateways in Russia?

Toinou wrote:

BTW, what is a "socially-driven route"?

Subsidized by government to provide to people with modest income living in remote places a means to see their family and to go on vacation and to contribute to territorial continuity. A bit like EAS in the US but long haul.

c933103 wrote:

So the "socially driven route" for Rossiya mean regional/commuter route in other airlines?
So there will be a mainline airlines, a LCC, and then a regional airlines? I guess that make sense, and is not too different from what many other airlines are doing.

In Russian conditions, those mean flights in less populated Russia's regions, into and between smaller cities. Also, there are many smaller communities in Siberia where people need air service accessible to them, many communities where which are only accessible by air. Generally, demand in those communities doesn't warrant a daily 737, but cost efficient service needs to be there nonetheless.

Until recently, if you want to get, say, from Novosibirsk to Yakutsk, the cheapest and often the only available route would be through Moscow. That is, obviously, costly, tiresome and time consuming - to the point where people in Siberia preferred to take overnight trains (which, at least along Trans-Siberian line, run a few times a day/night and are reliable in the region).

This issue, however, is not specific to Russia. It's present in Canada as well, where roundtrip airfares to smaller communities within 1-2 hours of flying to the north of the border can easily run into 4 figures.

Jomar777 wrote:

ahj2000 wrote:

2 cents? S7 has an opportunity to grab more domestic business travel. Investing in more connections across the continent and a better international business network would help them take on Aeroflot even more. (Heck, if they're really looking to grow, they could buy Ural Airlines...assuming that COVID leaves either one standing/with money)

Only that S7 already has Globus Airlines which even flies for them on the DOM-LED route for example... They are following the same suit. Also, in future, it will be very easy for Aeroflot to review the route plan, "promoting" this or that route from Pobeda/Rossiya to mainline if they so wish...

Globus is gone as of late last year, meged into S7 proper. Also provided very similar levels to mainline S7. You are right that they can always switch. If for example, PEE gets a rise in business/$$$ traffic or they discover new resources out in some formerly poor Siberian city, they could always switch between the two.
It would be interesting to see if this experiment sticks.

anrec80 wrote:

PANAMsterdam wrote:

Varsity1 wrote:

So how is codesharing with Skyteam supposed to work? Fly to Moscow in J then connect on 'Podeba' in LCC format??

That's not unique in the business. I have seen Delta passengers connect to certain Transavia (HV) routes KLM doesn't fly to.

This is what I thought too and it didn't make any sense to me.

It makes a lot of sense. Transavia (HV) flies mainly to holiday destinations: the Canary Islands, Greek islands, Turkish holiday destinations and so on. You won’t fill a business class seat to Faro, Antalya or Corfu, but you will to Lisbon, Istanbul or Athens. That’s why the former three are Transavia destinations and the latter three KLM destinations. In case of overlap both KLM as well as Transavia serve that destination (Barcelona for instance is both a business as well as a holiday destination)

And for the rare occasions that a Delta Diamond Medallion member wants to go from Atlanta to Antalya, he has two options: either strand in AMS or deal with the horror of flying economy in a 737 filled with Dutch families

PANAMsterdam wrote:

And for the rare occasions that a Delta Diamond Medallion member wants to go from Atlanta to Antalya, he has two options: either strand in AMS or deal with the horror of flying economy in a 737 filled with Dutch families

Yepp. My only question is - what would a Delta Medallion even do in Antalya? I am sure such people have more choice of places to spend their holidays in...

Vio wrote:

That's interesting. Boy, I'd love for the Russians to remove tourist visa requirements for up to 30 days... I always wanted to go to Russia and visit, but the hassle of going through obtaining a VISA is not worth it. I understand that they need to reciprocate with other countries requiring visas for Russian citizens, but in the end, it hurts the tourism in Russia.

St. Petersburg has been “visa free” (quick online application) for EU for quite some time now, and not just for cruise passengers. IIRC for travel up to 7 days.

Moscow and the rest of the country was set to follow Jan. 1st, 2021. We’ll see if this date holds amidst the COVID-19 pandemic. From stuff I’ve been reading, the St. Petersburg beta test has been quite successful. This will be a game changer for EU travelers, especially for extended weekend trips. I imagine more competition on MOW/LED from EU once this get’s 100% implemented.