Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1291
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:10 am

Do you mean I-5, not I-15? Cities West of I-15 include AA/Eagle cities SEA, PDX, GEG, BOI, RDM, EUG, MFR, RNO, SMF, STS, SFO, OAK, SJC, MRY, FAT, SBP, BFL, SBA, LAX, SNA, skirts ONT, goes through LAS and SLC plus SAN. Most of these are connected to DFW, many to ORD, in addition to PHX and LAX. Lots of college towns. So I'm not understanding your logic. West of I-5 is different; it goes through many of these, with few actually being west of I-5. Either way, these are big AAdvantage frequent flyer markets, and make it worthwhile to be a member.
Since AA and AS don't and won't by this agreement have a joint venture and revenue sharing, AA would lose revenue and on-line feed if they stopped flying the West Coast-> LAX/PHX markets. AS feed, whether by codeshare or just those capitalizing on frequent flyer mileage accrual is gravy, not a replacement revenue source.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
flyby519
Posts: 1570
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:48 am

catiii wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Aren't AS and B6 on the same team now ?


No. They aren't.


Will that rebooking agreement turn into anything more substantial between B6/AS like it did with B6/AA?
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4955
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:14 am

flyby519 wrote:
catiii wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Aren't AS and B6 on the same team now ?


No. They aren't.


Will that rebooking agreement turn into anything more substantial between B6/AS like it did with B6/AA?

Couldn’t they rebook into the AA code in this circumstance?
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1049
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:31 am

kavok wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
kavok wrote:
Simply put, there were many cities like FAT or EUG that AA had to have in its network. To be a competitive domestic player on the national level, AA couldn’t simply tell it’s frequent flyers out East that “I am sorry, but we can’t fly you to EUG or FAT because those cities aren’t accessible from anywhere in our network”. And thus AA operated (likely unprofitable) flights from LAX to EUG, FAT, and others simply to achieve the de facto broad network requirement of being a legacy airline.

With the OW partnerships, AA can now use AS to get pax to FAT and EUG. More importantly, they can also drop those unprofitable flights to those cities that AS serves. And in doing so, it opens then door for AS to strengthen their own network by flying to more of those destinations from LAX.


I don't see your points. AA & AS don't have an anti-trust immunized JV. They will still compete - they can't coordinate capacity, or scheduling, or pricing NOT to compete. People expect way too much from codesharing. If codesharing could achieve even half what some people think there would be no use for alliances, JV, or equity stakes.

As for FAT and EUG, AA's route map (perhaps slow to catch up with COVID reductions) shows both with service from PHX, and FAT with service from both DFW and PHX. That's pretty good for airports ranked #102 and #118 in arrivals count for 12 months ending 4/2020. One would struggle to call either a must-serve destination - WN certainly doesn't.


My point is basically this:
Part 1:
AA doesn’t want to be flying LAX-EUG/FAT/etc. Those routes are money losers, and cash is obviously very tight right now. The obvious financial answer is to simply drop them. But they can’t drop them and still consider themselves a full service domestic carrier. You can’t tell your corporate clients that the only cities west of the Rocky Mountains they can fly to are those big enough to have pro sports teams. Consider a college textbook publisher based in PHL, who by virtue of being based in PHL is inclined to fly AA for business. But if AA doesn’t fly to any west coast college town, that publisher may switch to DL/UA even though they live in PHL. Being a US3 means you have to fly to many of those tertiary cities from somewhere, even if those specific flights don’t generate profits on their own. Otherwise you lose the whole corporate contract. So AA was forced to fly to EUG/FAT/etc. when they didn’t want to.

Enter the AS partnership. Now AS can provide the necessary connectivity to those smaller West Coast markets. AA no longer is “required” to serve EUG/FAT/etc. And since they are money losers, AA can finally achieve their goal of dropping those stations. All of that requires no coordination, and makes obvious business sense.

Part 2:
For it’s own benefit, AA is dropping LAX flying to small cities for reasons described above. AS has always wanted a bigger presence in LAX. AS has a lot of frequent flyers in EUG. And most importantly, the legacy competition (AA) that previously existed on a route (AA’s LAX-EUG) just went away. Now AS has an opportunity to try a route they have always wanted to see if they could make work, without having a competitor. So AS can add it, again without coordination with AA.

So AS expands LAX, and AA shrinks it... because it is in each parties interest to do so, even without coordination.


AA has long been the strongest carrier at FAT, and they have a large FF base in and around Fresno (FAT's departure seat count on AA rivals some much larger airports, at least pre-COVID). While PHX and DFW can cover a lot of the country, LAX provides connections to int'l destinations, including on other OneWorld partners, as well as to Hawaii. I think your position that AA doesn't want to provide those connecting options probably isn't accurate.
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1291
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:44 am

32andBelow wrote:
flyby519 wrote:
catiii wrote:

No. They aren't.


Will that rebooking agreement turn into anything more substantial between B6/AS like it did with B6/AA?

Couldn’t they rebook into the AA code in this circumstance?

Rebooking rules are to book on the operating carrier flight number, not a codeshare; the exception being the Eagles, Horizons and Expresses that don't sell under their own codes. So a ticketing agreement -at least a special involuntary reroute provision- is necessary between the carriers involved. So B6 could not protect on an AA* flight operated by AS. They'd have to have an agreement to book an AS operated flight.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
Tack
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:56 am

catiii wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
It's nice to see the Bullish AS that we saw in 2017 after the acquisition come out in force again, it seemed they became very timid and eager to cutback following that period in time. Big expansion announcements like these are very exciting,


This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2598
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:22 am

FSDan wrote:
PHX-EUG definitely predates LAX-EUG. LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM on AA are some of the more recent domestic adds (although LAX-TUL/OMA/SDF etc. are even newer).


LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM actually predates the PHX service as far as AA is concerned. US dropped the PHX routes at least a few years prior to the merger.

PHX-RDM was the first to come back and was one of the initial CR7 routes for OO out of PHX, added in Mar 2017 as I recall. They were already flying LAX at that point with a Compass E75 but had suspended it from Dec-Mar for runway construction and then resumed both at once (the runway construction wasn't done in time for the inaugural anyhow but AA continued with the launch).

MFR and EUG came later for PHX and AA had already been running LAX in both these markets for a while. LAX-EUG was the first Oregon route to go double daily (something PHX-EUG and PHX-MFR have done since then on and off and originally all three from PHX were loaded as double daily starting in Sep pre-demand drop).
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
n7371f
Posts: 1822
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:23 am

Actually I was referring to it from a customer standpoint...but I'm sure you knew that anyway.

LAXBUR wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Choosing AS over B6 on LAX-FLL is akin to asking a 65 yr old woman out on a date vs a 35 year old.


Yeah. The 65-year old may be frugal, but has more money and a better network of friends and business colleagues to connect with.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3619
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:30 am

jplatts wrote:
AS adding PDX-TPA nonstop service might be a possibility with the lack of PDX-TPA nonstop service is one of the biggest holes in both the PDX and TPA markets. There are also other adds that could be made by AS out of PDX such as PDX-ATL/IND/BNA/RDU/SAT.

AS adding SFO-TPA nonstop service is also a possibility with UA currently being the only airline serving TPA nonstop from the San Francisco Bay Area.


PSX-TPA is one of the biggest holes in the TPA & PDX markets. Why exactly do you figure that.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4226
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 1:30 pm

Alaska lost some of its luster after Delta hit Seattle. A fair number of AS loyalists switched over to Delta as it offered a better product. B6 has suffered some of the same from Delta. Both should aim at bettering Delta. Everyone knows AA could improve its product. Both Alaska and B6 do a few forays beyond their fortress areas, but really are not continental airlines. I can easily see all three improving their product particularly compared to Delta and providing superior services, AS western states, mexico and Hawaii, B6 eastern third of the US and Caribbean. AA everything else - but all doing a better job in their main areas.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
jplatts
Posts: 3612
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:47 pm

rbavfan wrote:
PSX-TPA is one of the biggest holes in the TPA & PDX markets. Why exactly do you figure that.


The PDEW of PDX-TPA was 92 passengers per day in Q3 2019, and AS would also have some connecting feed from Oregon, Alaska, and Hawaii in addition to O&D traffic on the PDX-TPA route if it adds PDX-TPA nonstop service.
 
Aliqiout
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:06 pm

32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!

Or AS ANC-ORD
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:04 pm

32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!


I status matched to DL Diamond from AS 75K a few years ago. After nearly $2,000 in change fees it was back to Alaska

The LA flight from FLL offers more connecting opportunities since the "original" SEA flight was normally a morning flight, or departed so late it arrived in SEA after 10pm. So Im glad the LAX flight is sticking around.
xx
 
FSDan
Posts: 3318
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:30 pm

alasizon wrote:
FSDan wrote:
PHX-EUG definitely predates LAX-EUG. LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM on AA are some of the more recent domestic adds (although LAX-TUL/OMA/SDF etc. are even newer).


LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM actually predates the PHX service as far as AA is concerned. US dropped the PHX routes at least a few years prior to the merger.

PHX-RDM was the first to come back and was one of the initial CR7 routes for OO out of PHX, added in Mar 2017 as I recall. They were already flying LAX at that point with a Compass E75 but had suspended it from Dec-Mar for runway construction and then resumed both at once (the runway construction wasn't done in time for the inaugural anyhow but AA continued with the launch).

MFR and EUG came later for PHX and AA had already been running LAX in both these markets for a while. LAX-EUG was the first Oregon route to go double daily (something PHX-EUG and PHX-MFR have done since then on and off and originally all three from PHX were loaded as double daily starting in Sep pre-demand drop).


Looks like the timelines are more complicated than I remembered. I found an a.net thread from summer 2013 where AA added LAX-EUG and LAX-RDM (but it looks like they didn't add LAX-MFR until 2017). You're correct that PHX-RDM was added later (I found a thread from 2018 about that one). The 2017 thread I found showed LAX-MFR and PHX-MFR being added at the same time, and didn't mention PHX-EUG. So I might be remembering the old US PHX-EUG and PHX-MFR flights, which I'm still fairly certain predate the LAX-EUG and LAX-MFR service.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:24 pm

usxguy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!


I status matched to DL Diamond from AS 75K a few years ago. After nearly $2,000 in change fees it was back to Alaska

The LA flight from FLL offers more connecting opportunities since the "original" SEA flight was normally a morning flight, or departed so late it arrived in SEA after 10pm. So Im glad the LAX flight is sticking around.


I think the SEA-FLL flight tailors more to the regional PNW and Alaska (primarily ANC and FAI) connections. I think a redeye or FLL-RON would be better for connecting with a broader range of AS destinations...like the SEA-MCO flights.
 
Lootess
Posts: 454
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 6:15 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:39 am

USAirALB wrote:
The Florida routes are interesting.

AA attempted LAX-TPA a couple years back and it didn't quite work out. I think DL has been on the route for years now. The RSW adds are quite perplexing to me; I don't think anyone has attempted RSW-West Coast service. I never really thought RSW was popular for West Coast travelers as it seems much more a Midwestern market. I can't really see RSW working out in the long run.


DL TPA-LAX goes back to pre-merger NW days, if I remember they didn't hesitate to put a PNW A319 on it right away.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26219
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:51 am

Lootess wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
The Florida routes are interesting.

AA attempted LAX-TPA a couple years back and it didn't quite work out. I think DL has been on the route for years now. The RSW adds are quite perplexing to me; I don't think anyone has attempted RSW-West Coast service. I never really thought RSW was popular for West Coast travelers as it seems much more a Midwestern market. I can't really see RSW working out in the long run.


DL TPA-LAX goes back to pre-merger NW days, if I remember they didn't hesitate to put a PNW A319 on it right away.


It goes back to the 1990s.
a.
 
catiii
Posts: 3584
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:17 am

LAXBUR wrote:
catiii wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
It's nice to see the Bullish AS that we saw in 2017 after the acquisition come out in force again, it seemed they became very timid and eager to cutback following that period in time. Big expansion announcements like these are very exciting,


This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


You do realize that JetBlue’s “big” LAX announcement was moving an operation from one local airport to another and not even keeping all the flights? The rest was just “we want to have this many flights later”. So if you want to play that game you’re not batting with much. Kinda pathetic.


I was responding to the poster’s adjectives. No one at B6 has characterized closing LGB, moving all the flying to LAX (except PDX) and announcing up to 70 flights a day to new markets as “big.” That’s your word.

And yeah, if you want to play that game let’s review solely the LAX stuff:

Shuttered LGB
Moved every route except PDX to LAX
Announced Mint TCON to EWR
Internally, and externally, alluded to a whole list of cities that likely will open up from LAX (BDL, CHS, Hawaii, Mexico beach, and a number of others not “public” but alluded to in town hall meetings)

But yeah, enjoy flying that Alaska hard product from SEA to FLL, or RSW.
 
catiii
Posts: 3584
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:19 am

klm617 wrote:
catiii wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Aren't AS and B6 on the same team now ?


No. They aren't.


Call me naïve but I think these three are working together towards a common goal so in my estimation they are all on the same team at this point. But what do I know.


Obviously not that much, because they’re not working together on anything “towards a common goal.”
 
catiii
Posts: 3584
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:25 am

Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
It's nice to see the Bullish AS that we saw in 2017 after the acquisition come out in force again, it seemed they became very timid and eager to cutback following that period in time. Big expansion announcements like these are very exciting,


This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:41 am

catiii wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


You do realize that JetBlue’s “big” LAX announcement was moving an operation from one local airport to another and not even keeping all the flights? The rest was just “we want to have this many flights later”. So if you want to play that game you’re not batting with much. Kinda pathetic.


I was responding to the poster’s adjectives. No one at B6 has characterized closing LGB, moving all the flying to LAX (except PDX) and announcing up to 70 flights a day to new markets as “big.” That’s your word.

And yeah, if you want to play that game let’s review solely the LAX stuff:

Shuttered LGB
Moved every route except PDX to LAX
Announced Mint TCON to EWR
Internally, and externally, alluded to a whole list of cities that likely will open up from LAX (BDL, CHS, Hawaii, Mexico beach, and a number of others not “public” but alluded to in town hall meetings)

But yeah, enjoy flying that Alaska hard product from SEA to FLL, or RSW.


I still don't understand why B6 even kept SEA-LAX with all of the competition. Aren't they only bringing in 1X daily flight? Hardly competitive.
 
NYCVIE
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:01 pm

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:19 am

I truly will never understand what it is about these airlines that brings out some super negative qualities in some posters... anyways

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Alaska lost some of its luster after Delta hit Seattle. A fair number of AS loyalists switched over to Delta as it offered a better product. B6 has suffered some of the same from Delta. Both should aim at bettering Delta. Everyone knows AA could improve its product. Both Alaska and B6 do a few forays beyond their fortress areas, but really are not continental airlines. I can easily see all three improving their product particularly compared to Delta and providing superior services, AS western states, mexico and Hawaii, B6 eastern third of the US and Caribbean. AA everything else - but all doing a better job in their main areas.


What AA, B6, and AS are engaged in are codeshare agreements, the level of intentional cooperation you're suggesting would be illegal, but you're right that they do have complimenting strengths. I wouldn't really necessarily say that DL is a pain in the ass to B6 the way it is to AS. With JFK, both airlines have coexisted for a long time and B6 has its own niche. No one is really touching Mint which is why it has been successful but I'm not sure DL is even going after the same type of customer. B6 also has an extremely strong network to the Caribbean which has proven to be lucrative not just at JFK but at their other hubs. DL flies some of these routes as well (and so does UA) but B6 is the clear leader here. Additionally, NYC market is large enough for three large carriers to exist and if anything it has been AA that has suffered here at the hands of both DL and B6 and in BOS as well which is why I would venture to guess they've pursued this agreement with B6.

I don't think DL and B6 are enemies at JFK - for example, DL could have easily launched RNO, ONT, ABQ, etc. but they haven't and it wouldn't really make sense for them to do so. Considering DL's focus on business travelers and the presence of carriers focused on that same market with UA at EWR and AA at LGA, I don't think B6 is a huge roadblock for them and vice versa. B6 and DL product in coach (as B6 largely doesn't have business) are also not TOO different. In BOS obviously DL has been pushing B6's buttons but I'd be shocked if B6 management wasn't prepared for some network carrier at some point to make a push in BOS since it's a big business market with strong international demand that B6 obviously cannot meet. If anything I'd imagine they're glad it ended up being DL and not AA since AA already had a relatively strong base in BOS.

SEA, however, while a large market, isn't the size of NYC and DL and AS are going after the same type of customer. IMO the biggest roadblock for AS in California and particularly at SFO is the fact that DL is pushing so hard in SEA which forces AS to double down there. I think DL views AS as a much bigger target than B6 which I think would preempt any attempt from AS at SFO-ATL or LAX-ATL as another poster mentioned (along with their relative weakness in medium haul markets from California).
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4955
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:13 am

Aliqiout wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!

Or AS ANC-ORD

I guess that would work better that it used to since you can connect to AA. Or ANC/ATL in the summer on a DL wide body
 
User avatar
usxguy
Posts: 1881
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:11 am

Dec 18 is quite aggressive for Alaska. I think at FLL's peak, they had 2 LAX & 1 SEA + 4/wk SEA

Depts from FLL:
0700 - LAX
0800 - SFO
0920 - SEA
1640 - PDX
1745 - SEA
1840 - LAX

From MCO
0815 - SEA
1000 - SAN
1645 - SEA
1730 - PDX
1840 - SFO
1855 - SAN

From TPA
0815 - SEA
1000 - LAX
1700 - SEA

32andbelow- Ive met a lot of other 75ks & Golds on my ANC-LAX-Florida flights. Its easier for us to get upgrades instead of fighting with upwards of 40+ 75Ks that I've seen on ANC/SEA, and ANC/LAX isnt as jam packed.

Regarding JetBlue & Alaska, they are most definitely two different products and compete well. Except for one major difference: American is only taking one to the prom (Alaska). Only one has full reciprocal network access for mileage accrual & redemption.
xx
 
JoseSalazar
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:59 am

usxguy wrote:
Dec 18 is quite aggressive for Alaska. I think at FLL's peak, they had 2 LAX & 1 SEA + 4/wk SEA

Depts from FLL:
0700 - LAX
0800 - SFO
0920 - SEA
1640 - PDX
1745 - SEA
1840 - LAX

From MCO
0815 - SEA
1000 - SAN
1645 - SEA
1730 - PDX
1840 - SFO
1855 - SAN

From TPA
0815 - SEA
1000 - LAX
1700 - SEA

32andbelow- Ive met a lot of other 75ks & Golds on my ANC-LAX-Florida flights. Its easier for us to get upgrades instead of fighting with upwards of 40+ 75Ks that I've seen on ANC/SEA, and ANC/LAX isnt as jam packed.

Regarding JetBlue & Alaska, they are most definitely two different products and compete well. Except for one major difference: American is only taking one to the prom (Alaska). Only one has full reciprocal network access for mileage accrual & redemption.

The details are still being worked out for B6 & AA. “We are finalizing our offering, but we expect members will be able to earn and redeem points on either carrier and we’re exploring other premium enhancements that would be appealing to our Mint and Mosaic Customers.” That said, the codeshare is limited to BOS and NYC flights, B6 is not joining Oneworld, and therefore the partnership is not quite at the same level.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:50 pm

I think right before the whole COVID crap started, AS had most of these flights in their schedule already with 2X MCO-SEA, 2X FLL-SEA and 2X TPA-SEA; along with others. I think the biggest addition is PDX and SAN. I'm glad to see AS expanding to additional destinations to FL. I think RSW will be a popular destination for them.

I was kind of hoping they would open PBI, but probably too close to FLL.
 
11C
Posts: 160
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:17 pm

catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...


All true regarding Seattle. Overspending on VX, and opening the door to Delta have not panned out well.
 
Tack
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:09 pm

catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...


Time will tell which one increases their revenue fastest. But based on past performance, I’d bet on the one based in Seattle. Numbers don’t lie, and they’ve run circles around many airlines in profit margin yearly for awhile, including B6. How do you think they had all the cash to outbid ‘em on VX? and let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money. In the end, that move will pay off and every airline flying the west coast will reap the benefit. Including the most bestest.
 
Tack
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:20 pm

11C wrote:
catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:

I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...


All true regarding Seattle. Overspending on VX, and opening the door to Delta have not panned out well.


Regardless of what you read, VX was to remove a yield squashing, money losing operation. And keep a stronger airline than VX from replacing them. I was there during the merger. AS always has two personas. The one internally and their public facing. The fact that AS had the cash to do that vs B6 shows how much stronger financially AS has always been compared to B6. DL was a good test, that AS more then met. The fact that AA sees the AS network as strong enough to add SEA intl destinations and partner up shows how well they’ve fared against DL. It also shows that SEA market is more than big enough for them both as well as forcing AS to be a more effective competitor system wide. Let’s compare notes in a year, I’m betting things will have panned out pretty good for AS by then.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15730
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:27 pm

Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


While VX was absolutely taking fistfuls of money and lighting them on fire, the overlap with AS was minimal and therefore any yield problems were very, very limited. The move to acquire them wasn't about eliminating a competitor, but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own (extra gates at LAX and SFO, JFK slots, a turnkey intra-CA operation) while simultaneously keeping them from a more nimble competitor (B6). And to the poster earlier who said they paid for the brand, no - they didn't. Actually, the brand COST money to use! That's one of the many reasons AS decided to torpedo it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
tphuang
Posts: 5199
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:47 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


While VX was absolutely taking fistfuls of money and lighting them on fire, the overlap with AS was minimal and therefore any yield problems were very, very limited. The move to acquire them wasn't about eliminating a competitor, but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own (extra gates at LAX and SFO, JFK slots, a turnkey intra-CA operation) while simultaneously keeping them from a more nimble competitor (B6). And to the poster earlier who said they paid for the brand, no - they didn't. Actually, the brand COST money to use! That's one of the many reasons AS decided to torpedo it.


Serious question, do you think as and b6 will get into a similar partnership? Seems less necessary with both of them getting some help from aa but I would still love to see it.
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:26 pm

As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15730
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 pm

tphuang wrote:
Serious question, do you think as and b6 will get into a similar partnership? Seems less necessary with both of them getting some help from aa but I would still love to see it.


I think it's certainly possible. AS is the B6 of the West Coast, and B6 is the AS of the East Coast. AS would love to get greater access for their guests to the NE, FL, and the Caribbean. B6 would love to get greater access for their guests to the PNW, CA, and HI. A comprehensive codeshare across both carriers, with reciprocal earn-and-burn mileage agreements sure seems like a win-win for each, and complements not only each other, but the partnerships with AA as well while avoiding the complexity and expense of M&A activity for all three.

But time will tell if things go that way. I sure wouldn't mind seeing it, though!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5249
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:26 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.


I automatically buy tickets in Premium Economy anymore on AS, whether it's out of SEA or PAE. PAE has been pretty easy to get 1st class upgrades and the E-175's have been wonderful! You still get the same 1st class meals on the E-175's as you do on the mainline jets (at least in my experience). PAE has been so much easier than SEA, especially from where I live.

I've been flying on AS since 1986-ish (off and on). Now that I live in the SEA area, AS is the most convenient airline. I also like the interaction with the flight attendants, which I didn't get a whole lot of it from VX and DL. I think I'm staying with AS.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15730
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:04 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.


I agree that you'd want your best foot forward there, and I'm glad you've been sharing your feedback! It's the only way things can improve.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
User avatar
NWAESC
Posts: 1578
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 1:02 pm

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:15 pm

Who ground handles AS in MSP?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1723
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:25 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


While VX was absolutely taking fistfuls of money and lighting them on fire, the overlap with AS was minimal and therefore any yield problems were very, very limited. The move to acquire them wasn't about eliminating a competitor, but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own (extra gates at LAX and SFO, JFK slots, a turnkey intra-CA operation) while simultaneously keeping them from a more nimble competitor (B6). And to the poster earlier who said they paid for the brand, no - they didn't. Actually, the brand COST money to use! That's one of the many reasons AS decided to torpedo it.


We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15730
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:37 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.


They didn't want an Airbus fleet, but senior leadership had a belief that they learned two important things from DL; one, you don't put all your eggs in one basket if you can (SEA), and two, you don't allow a competitor to get a hold in a place where you believe your future lies (CA for AS, ATL for DL when they allowed FL to grow unchallenged). Hence the willingness to forgo the conservative approach to growth, where CA would have taken the next decade or two to get bigger, and instead move immediately to get what they felt was needed long-term.

LGA, DAL - those were added bonuses, but not strategic assets. SFO and LAX were, and while VX was an annoyance that took up far too much of the company's time early in their existence, that overlap of just 6 markets meant they were a nuisance that could be lived with, especially since they were losing money so fast it was just a matter of waiting for the next economic downturn for VX to disappear on their own. VX's BOD making the choice to put the company on the auction block is what prompted the bid more than anything.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1723
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:15 am

EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.


They didn't want an Airbus fleet, but senior leadership had a belief that they learned two important things from DL; one, you don't put all your eggs in one basket if you can (SEA), and two, you don't allow a competitor to get a hold in a place where you believe your future lies (CA for AS, ATL for DL when they allowed FL to grow unchallenged). Hence the willingness to forgo the conservative approach to growth, where CA would have taken the next decade or two to get bigger, and instead move immediately to get what they felt was needed long-term.

LGA, DAL - those were added bonuses, but not strategic assets. SFO and LAX were, and while VX was an annoyance that took up far too much of the company's time early in their existence, that overlap of just 6 markets meant they were a nuisance that could be lived with, especially since they were losing money so fast it was just a matter of waiting for the next economic downturn for VX to disappear on their own. VX's BOD making the choice to put the company on the auction block is what prompted the bid more than anything.


Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree. I have access to all the same stuff management puts out to us frontline employees that you have. Alaska management didn't want anything to do with Airbus until they had to buy an airline that flew only Airbus, and it seems like they're edging towards putting all their eggs back in one basket where that's concerned too. I expected they would have kept a small A321 fleet at one point but things being what they are, I don't expect that to be the case now - especially if you read between the lines on their communications. They've always been about keeping costs low and their philosophy was that a single fleet type did just that.

We agree that VX probably would have been gone in the next downturn, like the one we're in now, and I think management was fine waiting for that to happen. B6 pushed them to move quickly on the VX acquisition and to overpay. There was little that they got out of it that they couldn't have acquired organically - which is exactly how they repeatedly state that they wish to grow. Acquisitions are difficult at best and organic growth has always served our airline well. It's part of the philosophy of this management team. Gregg Saretsky had much more ambitious growth ideas and you see where he's at now...
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5407
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:32 am

I wanted to post here that there are new flights appearing in Alaska's schedules today (and last night) but so far there's no announcement nor even a new OAG thread to post them on.

So far, I've found new SAN/PDX - CUN service beginning on 11/20; both routes are sub-daily and daylight flights operated with 738s. As of now, the flights all end around 4/11/21.

For those (others) of you into schedules and a/c deployment, etc., both of these planes at SAN and PDX are split with the new FLL service announced recently as part of the LAX-growth. (It doesn't appear that that announcement was even discussed on this thread.) In SAN, FLL is 3x weekly while CUN takes the remaining 4 days; in PDX, the FLL departure is 4x per week while their CUN flight is the other 3 days. Even the times are similar in each city, heck even the flight numbers are kind of similar.

Also, in March 2021, AS will inaugurate 2 more related routes: SAN and SJC to MSO. Both will fly daily on EMJs starting 3/11/21 and appear permanent. This is certainly the first daily service from SAN to MT that I'm aware of even though G4 flies once in a while, a couple days a week to BIL. I do not know SJC's history well enough to comment on that.

There may well be other new routes loaded in AS's schedules but at this point, anyone interested in them will have to look for them! I'm happy to do that for SAN but I'm not as young as I used to be so I'm limited in how much I can look thru...

Nice to see Alaska remaining on the move!

bb
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4955
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:34 am

AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches
 
ytib
Posts: 571
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 3:22 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:58 am

32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.
318, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 388, 707, 717, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73Q, 735, 73G, 738, 7M8, 739, 752, 753, 742, 74L, 744, 762, 763, 772, 77L, 77W, 789, 142, CN1, CR2, CR7, DC8, DH2, DH8, D8Q, D10, D95, EM2, ER3, ER4, E70, 100, J31, M11, M83, M88, M90, SF3
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4955
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:01 am

ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.

yes they are routinely used for anc alternates. They both have way more enplanements than AKN and DLG which they took year round already
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 723
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:25 am

SANFan wrote:
I do not know SJC's history well enough to comment on that.

I believe this is indeed the first flight between SJC and Montana.

AS has also added SJC-GEG and RDM, starting next March. GEG is currently served from WN and has been done by AS in the past (last with QX Q400s which ended in Jan 2011). I believe RDM was briefly served in 1995 by Reno Air (at least that's what I saw on a route map).
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:42 am

NWAESC wrote:
Who ground handles AS in MSP?

An outfit called GAT.
 
Tack
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:13 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:03 am

ASFlyer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.


They didn't want an Airbus fleet, but senior leadership had a belief that they learned two important things from DL; one, you don't put all your eggs in one basket if you can (SEA), and two, you don't allow a competitor to get a hold in a place where you believe your future lies (CA for AS, ATL for DL when they allowed FL to grow unchallenged). Hence the willingness to forgo the conservative approach to growth, where CA would have taken the next decade or two to get bigger, and instead move immediately to get what they felt was needed long-term.

LGA, DAL - those were added bonuses, but not strategic assets. SFO and LAX were, and while VX was an annoyance that took up far too much of the company's time early in their existence, that overlap of just 6 markets meant they were a nuisance that could be lived with, especially since they were losing money so fast it was just a matter of waiting for the next economic downturn for VX to disappear on their own. VX's BOD making the choice to put the company on the auction block is what prompted the bid more than anything.


Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree. I have access to all the same stuff management puts out to us frontline employees that you have. Alaska management didn't want anything to do with Airbus until they had to buy an airline that flew only Airbus, and it seems like they're edging towards putting all their eggs back in one basket where that's concerned too. I expected they would have kept a small A321 fleet at one point but things being what they are, I don't expect that to be the case now - especially if you read between the lines on their communications. They've always been about keeping costs low and their philosophy was that a single fleet type did just that.

We agree that VX probably would have been gone in the next downturn, like the one we're in now, and I think management was fine waiting for that to happen. B6 pushed them to move quickly on the VX acquisition and to overpay. There was little that they got out of it that they couldn't have acquired organically - which is exactly how they repeatedly state that they wish to grow. Acquisitions are difficult at best and organic growth has always served our airline well. It's part of the philosophy of this management team. Gregg Saretsky had much more ambitious growth ideas and you see where he's at now...


As an AS retiree I respect the hell out of both you and EA CO AS. But we all know there are two Alaska’s when it comes to just about anything. The public facing talking points and then what is their real motivation, shared by friends in higher places. As a guy who spent a fair amount of time in the GO working on YYZ, VVO and MEX back in the day, a few of my buddies from those years made it to the late 2000’s with me. A couple of us retired within a few months of each other in late 2017. It was communicated very clearly to me that the merger went down in this order - kill a pain the ass competitor. Stave off a stronger one, grab a bonus SFO footprint. Dump the VX brand as fast as possible, (Royalties to his Royal highness) by turning all the tails blue ASAP. In fact, a guy I started with in ‘82 who advanced further up the food chain than I, said he was asked to delay his retirement by a year to help see that through. My point is I think we’re all basically telling the same story. Now B6 is a good airline, not great, honestly none are great. I like them and as an recently crowned AA CK, I look forward to them joining the AA network. I’m in this conversation simply because some B6 fans were a little off on how amazing they thought the recent B6 moves were and how it was going to change the landscape at LAX forever, up to LAWA booting AS out of T6! Kool-aide is such an aphrodisiac. The fact is, they needed to do something to grow their underwhelming margins. They are feeling the DL pressure in both NYC and BOS. LAX was a smart move. AA partnership was even smarter. If at some point AA/AS/B6 code share up, then I believe DL won’t just be worried, but maybe leaning toward nervous as hell. Just my 2cents. Cheers.
Last edited by Tack on Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3794
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:10 am

roadrunner165 wrote:
As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.


MSP staff are not AS employees. They work for a company called GAT Airline Ground Support.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1822
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:28 am

The no change fee for 75K MVP is a huge advantage for AS. Huge. Especially to the fliers who own their own business or run a small company. DL fooled around internally a handful of years ago about a work-around for SEA Diamonds that would've made DL more competitive based on the change fee vs travel bank. Nothing came of it.

usxguy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!


I status matched to DL Diamond from AS 75K a few years ago. After nearly $2,000 in change fees it was back to Alaska

The LA flight from FLL offers more connecting opportunities since the "original" SEA flight was normally a morning flight, or departed so late it arrived in SEA after 10pm. So Im glad the LAX flight is sticking around.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1822
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:33 am

LOL: just rather cold and robotic. You aren't very familiar with Minnesotans are you? :tongue2:

roadrunner165 wrote:
As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.
 
Chugach
Posts: 1329
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:18 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:50 am

ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos