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Aliqiout
Posts: 377
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:10 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:06 pm

32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!

Or AS ANC-ORD
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1879
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:28 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:04 pm

32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!


I status matched to DL Diamond from AS 75K a few years ago. After nearly $2,000 in change fees it was back to Alaska

The LA flight from FLL offers more connecting opportunities since the "original" SEA flight was normally a morning flight, or departed so late it arrived in SEA after 10pm. So Im glad the LAX flight is sticking around.
xx
 
FSDan
Posts: 3313
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:30 pm

alasizon wrote:
FSDan wrote:
PHX-EUG definitely predates LAX-EUG. LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM on AA are some of the more recent domestic adds (although LAX-TUL/OMA/SDF etc. are even newer).


LAX-EUG/MFR/RDM actually predates the PHX service as far as AA is concerned. US dropped the PHX routes at least a few years prior to the merger.

PHX-RDM was the first to come back and was one of the initial CR7 routes for OO out of PHX, added in Mar 2017 as I recall. They were already flying LAX at that point with a Compass E75 but had suspended it from Dec-Mar for runway construction and then resumed both at once (the runway construction wasn't done in time for the inaugural anyhow but AA continued with the launch).

MFR and EUG came later for PHX and AA had already been running LAX in both these markets for a while. LAX-EUG was the first Oregon route to go double daily (something PHX-EUG and PHX-MFR have done since then on and off and originally all three from PHX were loaded as double daily starting in Sep pre-demand drop).


Looks like the timelines are more complicated than I remembered. I found an a.net thread from summer 2013 where AA added LAX-EUG and LAX-RDM (but it looks like they didn't add LAX-MFR until 2017). You're correct that PHX-RDM was added later (I found a thread from 2018 about that one). The 2017 thread I found showed LAX-MFR and PHX-MFR being added at the same time, and didn't mention PHX-EUG. So I might be remembering the old US PHX-EUG and PHX-MFR flights, which I'm still fairly certain predate the LAX-EUG and LAX-MFR service.
This is my signature until I think of a better one.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5246
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:24 pm

usxguy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!


I status matched to DL Diamond from AS 75K a few years ago. After nearly $2,000 in change fees it was back to Alaska

The LA flight from FLL offers more connecting opportunities since the "original" SEA flight was normally a morning flight, or departed so late it arrived in SEA after 10pm. So Im glad the LAX flight is sticking around.


I think the SEA-FLL flight tailors more to the regional PNW and Alaska (primarily ANC and FAI) connections. I think a redeye or FLL-RON would be better for connecting with a broader range of AS destinations...like the SEA-MCO flights.
 
Lootess
Posts: 451
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:39 am

USAirALB wrote:
The Florida routes are interesting.

AA attempted LAX-TPA a couple years back and it didn't quite work out. I think DL has been on the route for years now. The RSW adds are quite perplexing to me; I don't think anyone has attempted RSW-West Coast service. I never really thought RSW was popular for West Coast travelers as it seems much more a Midwestern market. I can't really see RSW working out in the long run.


DL TPA-LAX goes back to pre-merger NW days, if I remember they didn't hesitate to put a PNW A319 on it right away.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26215
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:51 am

Lootess wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
The Florida routes are interesting.

AA attempted LAX-TPA a couple years back and it didn't quite work out. I think DL has been on the route for years now. The RSW adds are quite perplexing to me; I don't think anyone has attempted RSW-West Coast service. I never really thought RSW was popular for West Coast travelers as it seems much more a Midwestern market. I can't really see RSW working out in the long run.


DL TPA-LAX goes back to pre-merger NW days, if I remember they didn't hesitate to put a PNW A319 on it right away.


It goes back to the 1990s.
a.
 
catiii
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:17 am

LAXBUR wrote:
catiii wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
It's nice to see the Bullish AS that we saw in 2017 after the acquisition come out in force again, it seemed they became very timid and eager to cutback following that period in time. Big expansion announcements like these are very exciting,


This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


You do realize that JetBlue’s “big” LAX announcement was moving an operation from one local airport to another and not even keeping all the flights? The rest was just “we want to have this many flights later”. So if you want to play that game you’re not batting with much. Kinda pathetic.


I was responding to the poster’s adjectives. No one at B6 has characterized closing LGB, moving all the flying to LAX (except PDX) and announcing up to 70 flights a day to new markets as “big.” That’s your word.

And yeah, if you want to play that game let’s review solely the LAX stuff:

Shuttered LGB
Moved every route except PDX to LAX
Announced Mint TCON to EWR
Internally, and externally, alluded to a whole list of cities that likely will open up from LAX (BDL, CHS, Hawaii, Mexico beach, and a number of others not “public” but alluded to in town hall meetings)

But yeah, enjoy flying that Alaska hard product from SEA to FLL, or RSW.
 
catiii
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:19 am

klm617 wrote:
catiii wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Aren't AS and B6 on the same team now ?


No. They aren't.


Call me naïve but I think these three are working together towards a common goal so in my estimation they are all on the same team at this point. But what do I know.


Obviously not that much, because they’re not working together on anything “towards a common goal.”
 
catiii
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:25 am

Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
It's nice to see the Bullish AS that we saw in 2017 after the acquisition come out in force again, it seemed they became very timid and eager to cutback following that period in time. Big expansion announcements like these are very exciting,


This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5246
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:41 am

catiii wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


You do realize that JetBlue’s “big” LAX announcement was moving an operation from one local airport to another and not even keeping all the flights? The rest was just “we want to have this many flights later”. So if you want to play that game you’re not batting with much. Kinda pathetic.


I was responding to the poster’s adjectives. No one at B6 has characterized closing LGB, moving all the flying to LAX (except PDX) and announcing up to 70 flights a day to new markets as “big.” That’s your word.

And yeah, if you want to play that game let’s review solely the LAX stuff:

Shuttered LGB
Moved every route except PDX to LAX
Announced Mint TCON to EWR
Internally, and externally, alluded to a whole list of cities that likely will open up from LAX (BDL, CHS, Hawaii, Mexico beach, and a number of others not “public” but alluded to in town hall meetings)

But yeah, enjoy flying that Alaska hard product from SEA to FLL, or RSW.


I still don't understand why B6 even kept SEA-LAX with all of the competition. Aren't they only bringing in 1X daily flight? Hardly competitive.
 
NYCVIE
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:19 am

I truly will never understand what it is about these airlines that brings out some super negative qualities in some posters... anyways

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Alaska lost some of its luster after Delta hit Seattle. A fair number of AS loyalists switched over to Delta as it offered a better product. B6 has suffered some of the same from Delta. Both should aim at bettering Delta. Everyone knows AA could improve its product. Both Alaska and B6 do a few forays beyond their fortress areas, but really are not continental airlines. I can easily see all three improving their product particularly compared to Delta and providing superior services, AS western states, mexico and Hawaii, B6 eastern third of the US and Caribbean. AA everything else - but all doing a better job in their main areas.


What AA, B6, and AS are engaged in are codeshare agreements, the level of intentional cooperation you're suggesting would be illegal, but you're right that they do have complimenting strengths. I wouldn't really necessarily say that DL is a pain in the ass to B6 the way it is to AS. With JFK, both airlines have coexisted for a long time and B6 has its own niche. No one is really touching Mint which is why it has been successful but I'm not sure DL is even going after the same type of customer. B6 also has an extremely strong network to the Caribbean which has proven to be lucrative not just at JFK but at their other hubs. DL flies some of these routes as well (and so does UA) but B6 is the clear leader here. Additionally, NYC market is large enough for three large carriers to exist and if anything it has been AA that has suffered here at the hands of both DL and B6 and in BOS as well which is why I would venture to guess they've pursued this agreement with B6.

I don't think DL and B6 are enemies at JFK - for example, DL could have easily launched RNO, ONT, ABQ, etc. but they haven't and it wouldn't really make sense for them to do so. Considering DL's focus on business travelers and the presence of carriers focused on that same market with UA at EWR and AA at LGA, I don't think B6 is a huge roadblock for them and vice versa. B6 and DL product in coach (as B6 largely doesn't have business) are also not TOO different. In BOS obviously DL has been pushing B6's buttons but I'd be shocked if B6 management wasn't prepared for some network carrier at some point to make a push in BOS since it's a big business market with strong international demand that B6 obviously cannot meet. If anything I'd imagine they're glad it ended up being DL and not AA since AA already had a relatively strong base in BOS.

SEA, however, while a large market, isn't the size of NYC and DL and AS are going after the same type of customer. IMO the biggest roadblock for AS in California and particularly at SFO is the fact that DL is pushing so hard in SEA which forces AS to double down there. I think DL views AS as a much bigger target than B6 which I think would preempt any attempt from AS at SFO-ATL or LAX-ATL as another poster mentioned (along with their relative weakness in medium haul markets from California).
 
32andBelow
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:13 am

Aliqiout wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!

Or AS ANC-ORD

I guess that would work better that it used to since you can connect to AA. Or ANC/ATL in the summer on a DL wide body
 
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usxguy
Posts: 1879
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:11 am

Dec 18 is quite aggressive for Alaska. I think at FLL's peak, they had 2 LAX & 1 SEA + 4/wk SEA

Depts from FLL:
0700 - LAX
0800 - SFO
0920 - SEA
1640 - PDX
1745 - SEA
1840 - LAX

From MCO
0815 - SEA
1000 - SAN
1645 - SEA
1730 - PDX
1840 - SFO
1855 - SAN

From TPA
0815 - SEA
1000 - LAX
1700 - SEA

32andbelow- Ive met a lot of other 75ks & Golds on my ANC-LAX-Florida flights. Its easier for us to get upgrades instead of fighting with upwards of 40+ 75Ks that I've seen on ANC/SEA, and ANC/LAX isnt as jam packed.

Regarding JetBlue & Alaska, they are most definitely two different products and compete well. Except for one major difference: American is only taking one to the prom (Alaska). Only one has full reciprocal network access for mileage accrual & redemption.
xx
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:59 am

usxguy wrote:
Dec 18 is quite aggressive for Alaska. I think at FLL's peak, they had 2 LAX & 1 SEA + 4/wk SEA

Depts from FLL:
0700 - LAX
0800 - SFO
0920 - SEA
1640 - PDX
1745 - SEA
1840 - LAX

From MCO
0815 - SEA
1000 - SAN
1645 - SEA
1730 - PDX
1840 - SFO
1855 - SAN

From TPA
0815 - SEA
1000 - LAX
1700 - SEA

32andbelow- Ive met a lot of other 75ks & Golds on my ANC-LAX-Florida flights. Its easier for us to get upgrades instead of fighting with upwards of 40+ 75Ks that I've seen on ANC/SEA, and ANC/LAX isnt as jam packed.

Regarding JetBlue & Alaska, they are most definitely two different products and compete well. Except for one major difference: American is only taking one to the prom (Alaska). Only one has full reciprocal network access for mileage accrual & redemption.

The details are still being worked out for B6 & AA. “We are finalizing our offering, but we expect members will be able to earn and redeem points on either carrier and we’re exploring other premium enhancements that would be appealing to our Mint and Mosaic Customers.” That said, the codeshare is limited to BOS and NYC flights, B6 is not joining Oneworld, and therefore the partnership is not quite at the same level.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5246
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:50 pm

I think right before the whole COVID crap started, AS had most of these flights in their schedule already with 2X MCO-SEA, 2X FLL-SEA and 2X TPA-SEA; along with others. I think the biggest addition is PDX and SAN. I'm glad to see AS expanding to additional destinations to FL. I think RSW will be a popular destination for them.

I was kind of hoping they would open PBI, but probably too close to FLL.
 
11C
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:17 pm

catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...


All true regarding Seattle. Overspending on VX, and opening the door to Delta have not panned out well.
 
Tack
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:09 pm

catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...


Time will tell which one increases their revenue fastest. But based on past performance, I’d bet on the one based in Seattle. Numbers don’t lie, and they’ve run circles around many airlines in profit margin yearly for awhile, including B6. How do you think they had all the cash to outbid ‘em on VX? and let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money. In the end, that move will pay off and every airline flying the west coast will reap the benefit. Including the most bestest.
 
Tack
Posts: 90
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:20 pm

11C wrote:
catiii wrote:
Tack wrote:

I know right? It’s almost like they were a financially underperforming airline that went all in with a LGB operation and went, ‘ah hell, guess we’ll just move flights to LAX. And maybe add some later”. Lol, we get it, B6 is the most bestest ever. Luckily for them, AA wants to code share, because, with their poor network, they were going find ways to continue to grow their revenue a wee bit difficult.


Not to get off topic, but I was thinking that at least they weren’t a wannabe player who let a Trojan Horse codeshare into their biggest hub only to get dumped as that other carrier built their own hub while vaporizing $2.6B to buy an ACTUAL brand, but then pissed it all away by dumping all the positives that brand had.

And let’s face it, a likely plan to grow their revenue, involved making Alaska disappear.

So relax...


All true regarding Seattle. Overspending on VX, and opening the door to Delta have not panned out well.


Regardless of what you read, VX was to remove a yield squashing, money losing operation. And keep a stronger airline than VX from replacing them. I was there during the merger. AS always has two personas. The one internally and their public facing. The fact that AS had the cash to do that vs B6 shows how much stronger financially AS has always been compared to B6. DL was a good test, that AS more then met. The fact that AA sees the AS network as strong enough to add SEA intl destinations and partner up shows how well they’ve fared against DL. It also shows that SEA market is more than big enough for them both as well as forcing AS to be a more effective competitor system wide. Let’s compare notes in a year, I’m betting things will have panned out pretty good for AS by then.
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15728
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:27 pm

Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


While VX was absolutely taking fistfuls of money and lighting them on fire, the overlap with AS was minimal and therefore any yield problems were very, very limited. The move to acquire them wasn't about eliminating a competitor, but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own (extra gates at LAX and SFO, JFK slots, a turnkey intra-CA operation) while simultaneously keeping them from a more nimble competitor (B6). And to the poster earlier who said they paid for the brand, no - they didn't. Actually, the brand COST money to use! That's one of the many reasons AS decided to torpedo it.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
tphuang
Posts: 5190
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:47 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


While VX was absolutely taking fistfuls of money and lighting them on fire, the overlap with AS was minimal and therefore any yield problems were very, very limited. The move to acquire them wasn't about eliminating a competitor, but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own (extra gates at LAX and SFO, JFK slots, a turnkey intra-CA operation) while simultaneously keeping them from a more nimble competitor (B6). And to the poster earlier who said they paid for the brand, no - they didn't. Actually, the brand COST money to use! That's one of the many reasons AS decided to torpedo it.


Serious question, do you think as and b6 will get into a similar partnership? Seems less necessary with both of them getting some help from aa but I would still love to see it.
 
roadrunner165
Posts: 875
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2000 6:28 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:26 pm

As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 9:49 pm

tphuang wrote:
Serious question, do you think as and b6 will get into a similar partnership? Seems less necessary with both of them getting some help from aa but I would still love to see it.


I think it's certainly possible. AS is the B6 of the West Coast, and B6 is the AS of the East Coast. AS would love to get greater access for their guests to the NE, FL, and the Caribbean. B6 would love to get greater access for their guests to the PNW, CA, and HI. A comprehensive codeshare across both carriers, with reciprocal earn-and-burn mileage agreements sure seems like a win-win for each, and complements not only each other, but the partnerships with AA as well while avoiding the complexity and expense of M&A activity for all three.

But time will tell if things go that way. I sure wouldn't mind seeing it, though!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5246
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 10:26 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.


I automatically buy tickets in Premium Economy anymore on AS, whether it's out of SEA or PAE. PAE has been pretty easy to get 1st class upgrades and the E-175's have been wonderful! You still get the same 1st class meals on the E-175's as you do on the mainline jets (at least in my experience). PAE has been so much easier than SEA, especially from where I live.

I've been flying on AS since 1986-ish (off and on). Now that I live in the SEA area, AS is the most convenient airline. I also like the interaction with the flight attendants, which I didn't get a whole lot of it from VX and DL. I think I'm staying with AS.
 
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:04 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.


I agree that you'd want your best foot forward there, and I'm glad you've been sharing your feedback! It's the only way things can improve.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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NWAESC
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:15 pm

Who ground handles AS in MSP?
"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:25 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


While VX was absolutely taking fistfuls of money and lighting them on fire, the overlap with AS was minimal and therefore any yield problems were very, very limited. The move to acquire them wasn't about eliminating a competitor, but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own (extra gates at LAX and SFO, JFK slots, a turnkey intra-CA operation) while simultaneously keeping them from a more nimble competitor (B6). And to the poster earlier who said they paid for the brand, no - they didn't. Actually, the brand COST money to use! That's one of the many reasons AS decided to torpedo it.


We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:37 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.


They didn't want an Airbus fleet, but senior leadership had a belief that they learned two important things from DL; one, you don't put all your eggs in one basket if you can (SEA), and two, you don't allow a competitor to get a hold in a place where you believe your future lies (CA for AS, ATL for DL when they allowed FL to grow unchallenged). Hence the willingness to forgo the conservative approach to growth, where CA would have taken the next decade or two to get bigger, and instead move immediately to get what they felt was needed long-term.

LGA, DAL - those were added bonuses, but not strategic assets. SFO and LAX were, and while VX was an annoyance that took up far too much of the company's time early in their existence, that overlap of just 6 markets meant they were a nuisance that could be lived with, especially since they were losing money so fast it was just a matter of waiting for the next economic downturn for VX to disappear on their own. VX's BOD making the choice to put the company on the auction block is what prompted the bid more than anything.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 12:15 am

EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.


They didn't want an Airbus fleet, but senior leadership had a belief that they learned two important things from DL; one, you don't put all your eggs in one basket if you can (SEA), and two, you don't allow a competitor to get a hold in a place where you believe your future lies (CA for AS, ATL for DL when they allowed FL to grow unchallenged). Hence the willingness to forgo the conservative approach to growth, where CA would have taken the next decade or two to get bigger, and instead move immediately to get what they felt was needed long-term.

LGA, DAL - those were added bonuses, but not strategic assets. SFO and LAX were, and while VX was an annoyance that took up far too much of the company's time early in their existence, that overlap of just 6 markets meant they were a nuisance that could be lived with, especially since they were losing money so fast it was just a matter of waiting for the next economic downturn for VX to disappear on their own. VX's BOD making the choice to put the company on the auction block is what prompted the bid more than anything.


Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree. I have access to all the same stuff management puts out to us frontline employees that you have. Alaska management didn't want anything to do with Airbus until they had to buy an airline that flew only Airbus, and it seems like they're edging towards putting all their eggs back in one basket where that's concerned too. I expected they would have kept a small A321 fleet at one point but things being what they are, I don't expect that to be the case now - especially if you read between the lines on their communications. They've always been about keeping costs low and their philosophy was that a single fleet type did just that.

We agree that VX probably would have been gone in the next downturn, like the one we're in now, and I think management was fine waiting for that to happen. B6 pushed them to move quickly on the VX acquisition and to overpay. There was little that they got out of it that they couldn't have acquired organically - which is exactly how they repeatedly state that they wish to grow. Acquisitions are difficult at best and organic growth has always served our airline well. It's part of the philosophy of this management team. Gregg Saretsky had much more ambitious growth ideas and you see where he's at now...
 
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:42 am

NWAESC wrote:
Who ground handles AS in MSP?

An outfit called GAT.
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:03 am

ASFlyer wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
We both know the VX purchase was a move by management to keep it out of B6's hands. The assets were a bonus and not one they would have otherwise paid such a premium for. They didn't want the Airbus. They could have cared less about slots at LGA or DAL. SFO gates could have been acquired in a different way - and it's no secret that they're not really being fully utilized at this point. LAX was already in the works before the VX thing even happened. Senior management is far too smart and far too frugal to overpay for VX primarily to get their hands on more gates at SFO and LAX. They would have found another way - they always do. They've always been very opportunistic and find a way to make things happen when they want to. It's no secret that VX was an annoyance - they spent a fair amount of time and resources trying to squash them when they first started up.


They didn't want an Airbus fleet, but senior leadership had a belief that they learned two important things from DL; one, you don't put all your eggs in one basket if you can (SEA), and two, you don't allow a competitor to get a hold in a place where you believe your future lies (CA for AS, ATL for DL when they allowed FL to grow unchallenged). Hence the willingness to forgo the conservative approach to growth, where CA would have taken the next decade or two to get bigger, and instead move immediately to get what they felt was needed long-term.

LGA, DAL - those were added bonuses, but not strategic assets. SFO and LAX were, and while VX was an annoyance that took up far too much of the company's time early in their existence, that overlap of just 6 markets meant they were a nuisance that could be lived with, especially since they were losing money so fast it was just a matter of waiting for the next economic downturn for VX to disappear on their own. VX's BOD making the choice to put the company on the auction block is what prompted the bid more than anything.


Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree. I have access to all the same stuff management puts out to us frontline employees that you have. Alaska management didn't want anything to do with Airbus until they had to buy an airline that flew only Airbus, and it seems like they're edging towards putting all their eggs back in one basket where that's concerned too. I expected they would have kept a small A321 fleet at one point but things being what they are, I don't expect that to be the case now - especially if you read between the lines on their communications. They've always been about keeping costs low and their philosophy was that a single fleet type did just that.

We agree that VX probably would have been gone in the next downturn, like the one we're in now, and I think management was fine waiting for that to happen. B6 pushed them to move quickly on the VX acquisition and to overpay. There was little that they got out of it that they couldn't have acquired organically - which is exactly how they repeatedly state that they wish to grow. Acquisitions are difficult at best and organic growth has always served our airline well. It's part of the philosophy of this management team. Gregg Saretsky had much more ambitious growth ideas and you see where he's at now...


As an AS retiree I respect the hell out of both you and EA CO AS. But we all know there are two Alaska’s when it comes to just about anything. The public facing talking points and then what is their real motivation, shared by friends in higher places. As a guy who spent a fair amount of time in the GO working on YYZ, VVO and MEX back in the day, a few of my buddies from those years made it to the late 2000’s with me. A couple of us retired within a few months of each other in late 2017. It was communicated very clearly to me that the merger went down in this order - kill a pain the ass competitor. Stave off a stronger one, grab a bonus SFO footprint. Dump the VX brand as fast as possible, (Royalties to his Royal highness) by turning all the tails blue ASAP. In fact, a guy I started with in ‘82 who advanced further up the food chain than I, said he was asked to delay his retirement by a year to help see that through. My point is I think we’re all basically telling the same story. Now B6 is a good airline, not great, honestly none are great. I like them and as an recently crowned AA CK, I look forward to them joining the AA network. I’m in this conversation simply because some B6 fans were a little off on how amazing they thought the recent B6 moves were and how it was going to change the landscape at LAX forever, up to LAWA booting AS out of T6! Kool-aide is such an aphrodisiac. The fact is, they needed to do something to grow their underwhelming margins. They are feeling the DL pressure in both NYC and BOS. LAX was a smart move. AA partnership was even smarter. If at some point AA/AS/B6 code share up, then I believe DL won’t just be worried, but maybe leaning toward nervous as hell. Just my 2cents. Cheers.
Last edited by Tack on Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:10 am

roadrunner165 wrote:
As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.


MSP staff are not AS employees. They work for a company called GAT Airline Ground Support.
 
n7371f
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:28 am

The no change fee for 75K MVP is a huge advantage for AS. Huge. Especially to the fliers who own their own business or run a small company. DL fooled around internally a handful of years ago about a work-around for SEA Diamonds that would've made DL more competitive based on the change fee vs travel bank. Nothing came of it.

usxguy wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
usxguy wrote:
glad to see FLL/LAX is back. I took that flight frequently as it timed up well with LAX/ANC. Add in that FLL/SEA was typically an early AM flight and suddenly the 4PMish LA flight gets a lot of connecting traffic :)

So far out of the way! DL ANCMSP all day long going east!


I status matched to DL Diamond from AS 75K a few years ago. After nearly $2,000 in change fees it was back to Alaska

The LA flight from FLL offers more connecting opportunities since the "original" SEA flight was normally a morning flight, or departed so late it arrived in SEA after 10pm. So Im glad the LAX flight is sticking around.
 
n7371f
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:33 am

LOL: just rather cold and robotic. You aren't very familiar with Minnesotans are you? :tongue2:

roadrunner165 wrote:
As a Gold and soon to be Gold75K I don’t find anything inferior about the Alaska product. Their app is easy to use and comprehensive. I rarely need to contact customer service with an issue. And now I can text customer service rather then call - I’ve done a complete rerouting via text message in less than 10 minutes when the phone wait time was 45 minutes during peak hours. Been a while since I sat in regular coach (Other than row 17), but premium economy is comfy and first class is adequate. I don’t understand why anyone cares about in flight entertainment in 2020. I can literally stream 700+ movies and TV shows to my phone with Alaska Beyond Entertainment. I’ve been on close to 75 fights this last year and only twice has a power outlet not worked. Both times were on the same seat of the same A320 in the old Virgin layout. And if your outlet by chance isnt working, there are still two more in the row to use, just ask your seat mate.

My only gripe lately on Alaska Listens has been the ground staff in Minneapolis. They’re totally competent at their jobs, just rather cold and robotic. I’m rarely greeted as a Gold Or thanked for my loyalty. You’d think in the fortress hub of a direct competitor you’d want your customer service to be top notch — right EA CO AS? Hint hint.
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:33 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own .


Then covid came along and space will be available in the old VX hubs anyways.
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:52 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LAXBUR
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:39 am

catiii wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


You do realize that JetBlue’s “big” LAX announcement was moving an operation from one local airport to another and not even keeping all the flights? The rest was just “we want to have this many flights later”. So if you want to play that game you’re not batting with much. Kinda pathetic.


I was responding to the poster’s adjectives. No one at B6 has characterized closing LGB, moving all the flying to LAX (except PDX) and announcing up to 70 flights a day to new markets as “big.” That’s your word.

And yeah, if you want to play that game let’s review solely the LAX stuff:

Shuttered LGB
Moved every route except PDX to LAX
Announced Mint TCON to EWR
Internally, and externally, alluded to a whole list of cities that likely will open up from LAX (BDL, CHS, Hawaii, Mexico beach, and a number of others not “public” but alluded to in town hall meetings)

But yeah, enjoy flying that Alaska hard product from SEA to FLL, or RSW.


“Shuttered.”

“Likely”.

Yikes. Guess you’ve never been on a debate team.
 
roadrunner165
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:54 am

n7371f wrote:
LOL: just rather cold and robotic. You aren't very familiar with Minnesotans are you? :tongue2:


Hahaha, now ain’t that the truth! Both the wife and I are very tired of ‘Minnesota Nice’. And I grew up there. (This past year has made me fully understand why I left after high school and never looked back.)

Unfortunately, little choice but to continue for the time being. Our son who is being treated at Children’s Minnesota in Minneapolis as they have a fantastic cardiovascular intensive care unit.

But back to the contractor - GAT. They aren’t bad. They could just do so much more for the Alaska brand if they connected more with the passengers - especially elites.

Maybe I’m a sucker — but when I hear sincerity in people’s voices, like I often do with AS employees In Seattle and Anchorage, It resonates with me and I wanna stick with them through thick and thin. I don’t get that feeling in MSP.
 
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:26 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
Maybe I’m a sucker — but when I hear sincerity in people’s voices, like I often do with AS employees In Seattle and Anchorage, It resonates with me and I wanna stick with them through thick and thin. I don’t get that feeling in MSP.


A company generally can't buy sincerity thorough outsourcing. OO does outsourced sincerity well, but they are a rarity.

/edit to fix autocorrect and formatting
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:05 pm

The issue with Alaska's hard product isn't that its worse than anyone else's; its that it isn't markedly better than anyone else's. Assuming fares are about the same price, there's no compelling reason for the average cost-conscious flyer to book on Alaska when the hard product is no different, and certainly not demonstrably superior.
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:35 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!


Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).
xx
 
roadrunner165
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
The issue with Alaska's hard product isn't that its worse than anyone else's; its that it isn't markedly better than anyone else's. Assuming fares are about the same price, there's no compelling reason for the average cost-conscious flyer to book on Alaska when the hard product is no different, and certainly not demonstrably superior.



I'll take a stab at this one. And I know, my experience is anecdotal. This is where the Mileage Plan comes into play. If you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who flies once or twice a year and simply wants the cheapest fare -- that's what Saver fares goes after as that type of customer will always fly whoever has the cheapest seat and typically doesn't care about hard product anyhow. But if you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who travels regularly (4 times a year or more) and is halfway intelligent, then those passengers begin to factor in the value of each airlines rewards program. I routinely price shop, but when I factor in the value of the miles earned that I will use towards future free tickets, Alaska becomes superior quite fast. Again, my experience is my own. But I don't think I'm alone. I always did the math, even before I had status.
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:38 pm

usxguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!


Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).


about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.
 
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:19 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
The issue with Alaska's hard product isn't that its worse than anyone else's; its that it isn't markedly better than anyone else's. Assuming fares are about the same price, there's no compelling reason for the average cost-conscious flyer to book on Alaska when the hard product is no different, and certainly not demonstrably superior.



I'll take a stab at this one. And I know, my experience is anecdotal. This is where the Mileage Plan comes into play. If you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who flies once or twice a year and simply wants the cheapest fare -- that's what Saver fares goes after as that type of customer will always fly whoever has the cheapest seat and typically doesn't care about hard product anyhow. But if you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who travels regularly (4 times a year or more) and is halfway intelligent, then those passengers begin to factor in the value of each airlines rewards program. I routinely price shop, but when I factor in the value of the miles earned that I will use towards future free tickets, Alaska becomes superior quite fast. Again, my experience is my own. But I don't think I'm alone. I always did the math, even before I had status.


People like Alaska. They tend to be nicer than other airlines. They have a valuable FF program and lots of partners. They win awards. A few people seem to omit that. Is Alaska some amazing experience? No. The person trying to suggest B6 is somehow leaps and bounds above Alaska in coach is a bit delusional. All economy seats on all airlines are cramped and uncomfortable. Some have screens which is nice. And those arguing about Alaska First vs JetBlue Mint are arguing about products that aren’t actually competing. It is really quite dumb and a waste of time. Alaska offers a competitive product vs US3 traditional First. Anyone that has actually flown Alaska can tell you that. Back during the VX merger a lot of people went on about how awful Alaska was and later admitted they’d never flown them. Have a feeling this is still happening.

JetBlue is great too. It is pretty amazing how just being nice gets an airline. Both Alaska and JetBlue offer a product that slots itself between US3 and WN. I’m not sure why the hate for Alaska (or JetBlue) even exists. I usually stick to Alaska, Delta and Southwest because they’re mostly nice and fly where I need to go. I’ve had consistently apathetic to not so nice experience on other carriers.
 
bayareablue
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:34 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
usxguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!


Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).


about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.


Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:50 am

Personally I am surprised this thread has gone this far. It is not as if any one airline is
clair·voy·ant or anything! I do not think even Alaska could react almost overnight to these few new JetBlue routes as was done.

It is actually kind of preposterous to think Alaska would do this without scripted research actually. I am sure these routes were well in the planning process way before JetBlue’s quite advertised displeasure, relocation, and draw down of LGB.

Just my 2 cents. Should be interesting to see if California’s governor does everything he can possibly do to keep the California economy shut down at a detriment to free enterprise and its citizens as he seems intent on doing.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:29 am

bayareablue wrote:
Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


I could have sworn the first 3 of the -800s came with mid-cabin lavs as well. In any event, at a leadership summit a decade ago, I was in a group with Irv Bertram, the man who quite literally signed for every new plane AS had in the past 20-30 years, and we had a LONG talk about mid-cabin lavs. His final take was yeah, the customer satisfaction scores are higher for them, but when you look at a 20 year average service life with AS before selling the fleet on the secondhand market, they're easier to move and at a higher value when there's no fixed monument to contend with removing, re-plumbing, etc. Magnify that by the 61 -800s in the fleet and you're talking serious money, and the cost-benefit analysis of that slight score increase vs. the fixed costs won on the cost saving side.

Of course in a post-COVID world I have no idea if those cost savings still pencil out...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1723
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:36 am

EA CO AS wrote:
bayareablue wrote:
Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


I could have sworn the first 3 of the -800s came with mid-cabin lavs as well. In any event, at a leadership summit a decade ago, I was in a group with Irv Bertram, the man who quite literally signed for every new plane AS had in the past 20-30 years, and we had a LONG talk about mid-cabin lavs. His final take was yeah, the customer satisfaction scores are higher for them, but when you look at a 20 year average service life with AS before selling the fleet on the secondhand market, they're easier to move and at a higher value when there's no fixed monument to contend with removing, re-plumbing, etc. Magnify that by the 61 -800s in the fleet and you're talking serious money, and the cost-benefit analysis of that slight score increase vs. the fixed costs won on the cost saving side.

Of course in a post-COVID world I have no idea if those cost savings still pencil out...


The first 3 -800's were originally ordered by and configured for Delta. Alaska got them because Delta didn't take delivery for whatever reason so Alaska was able to take those orders and expedite delivery of their first -800's. They always had 3 lavs in the back and one up front.

I've heard Ben give the same reason to everyone for not adding mid cabin lavs. On the flip side Ben has also said Alaska is not in the used airplane market and they buy planes that suit their needs. I wonder the real reason they retrofitted those planes that had mid cabin lavs and discontinued ordering them in that configuration. They are definitely more passenger friendly.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1723
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:40 am

bayareablue wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
usxguy wrote:

Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).


about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.


Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


Thanks - I knew there were a handful. Funny, because I knew the -900's that started with 30 (like 305, 306) were no mid cabin lav. Whenever I saw one of the 315 + numbers I knew it would be a good flight. LOL I did also hear they had plumbing issues more frequently. I wonder if the A321's experience similar issues.
 
QXAS
Posts: 365
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:26 am

Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:34 am

ASFlyer wrote:
bayareablue wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.


Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


Thanks - I knew there were a handful. Funny, because I knew the -900's that started with 30 (like 305, 306) were no mid cabin lav. Whenever I saw one of the 315 + numbers I knew it would be a good flight. LOL I did also hear they had plumbing issues more frequently. I wonder if the A321's experience similar issues.

I have a sizable collection of the old AS trading cards. Miss those things, I bring them with me when I travel and ask crews to sign them. But I digress, what made me think about those is the card for N318AS makes the presence of the mid cabin lavatory fairly obvious. But it’s something I never knew AS had until it was mentioned in this thread. My first 739 flight was on UA in 2014. UA has the mid cabin lavatory and it makes the flight so much more pleasant. Less traffic in the F cabin and Y pax don’t need to worry about carts. Then I moved to AZ and now I fly on AS 739s constantly, often wishing there was a lavatory in the Y cabin not blocked by carts.

On the topic of the thread, some interesting adds here. Particularly RSW. I’m also happy to see LAX get some adds. I would be more appreciative of the OW/AA relationship except for the small detail of the vast number of LUS aircraft based at my home airport. I do hope to see AS and B6 cooperate in the future, I don’t want a merger because I love both carriers for different reasons and losing either one would be a detriment to the industry. But a codeshare and earn and burn agreement between the two would make AA-AS-B6 a force to be reckoned with.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 723
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:25 pm

Mid cabin lavs are awesome and I hope with all this hype over social distancing they make a standard comeback. The nasty and fairly new configuration of having lavs actually IN the galley will come back to bite the carriers that did it. Customers are being educated on the germ (and worse) plumes flushing toilets causes. So flush toilet, then swing open lav door, wafting all that mess directly into the galley. Awful.

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