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32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:05 am

Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.

There’s absolutely no reason for AS to retain their gentleman’s agreements now that penair and ravn are dead. Time to take the venture boys out
 
CobaltScar
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:33 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Tack wrote:
let’s be honest, VX was a move to eliminate a competitor that was squashing yields because they we’re hemorrhaging money


but to acquire assets AS would take decades to obtain on their own .


Then covid came along and space will be available in the old VX hubs anyways.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:52 am

ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LAXBUR
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:39 am

catiii wrote:
LAXBUR wrote:
catiii wrote:

This is what passes for "bullish" and "big" at AS? This was at best a timid response to B6's LAX growth and TCON expansion out of Newark. It actually sounds like they got a courtesy heads up from AA about the B6 codeshare and threw something together to get out there as a competitive response.


You do realize that JetBlue’s “big” LAX announcement was moving an operation from one local airport to another and not even keeping all the flights? The rest was just “we want to have this many flights later”. So if you want to play that game you’re not batting with much. Kinda pathetic.


I was responding to the poster’s adjectives. No one at B6 has characterized closing LGB, moving all the flying to LAX (except PDX) and announcing up to 70 flights a day to new markets as “big.” That’s your word.

And yeah, if you want to play that game let’s review solely the LAX stuff:

Shuttered LGB
Moved every route except PDX to LAX
Announced Mint TCON to EWR
Internally, and externally, alluded to a whole list of cities that likely will open up from LAX (BDL, CHS, Hawaii, Mexico beach, and a number of others not “public” but alluded to in town hall meetings)

But yeah, enjoy flying that Alaska hard product from SEA to FLL, or RSW.


“Shuttered.”

“Likely”.

Yikes. Guess you’ve never been on a debate team.
 
roadrunner165
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:54 am

n7371f wrote:
LOL: just rather cold and robotic. You aren't very familiar with Minnesotans are you? :tongue2:


Hahaha, now ain’t that the truth! Both the wife and I are very tired of ‘Minnesota Nice’. And I grew up there. (This past year has made me fully understand why I left after high school and never looked back.)

Unfortunately, little choice but to continue for the time being. Our son who is being treated at Children’s Minnesota in Minneapolis as they have a fantastic cardiovascular intensive care unit.

But back to the contractor - GAT. They aren’t bad. They could just do so much more for the Alaska brand if they connected more with the passengers - especially elites.

Maybe I’m a sucker — but when I hear sincerity in people’s voices, like I often do with AS employees In Seattle and Anchorage, It resonates with me and I wanna stick with them through thick and thin. I don’t get that feeling in MSP.
 
roadrunner165
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:06 am

I wonder what it takes to petition for TSA services at airports like Homer and Kenai?
 
ytib
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:43 pm

Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
AS needs to get e175s on ENA and HOM before FLOAT launches


I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.


It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.
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32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:17 pm

I’ve seen NAC 737s in ENA and HOM.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:26 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
Maybe I’m a sucker — but when I hear sincerity in people’s voices, like I often do with AS employees In Seattle and Anchorage, It resonates with me and I wanna stick with them through thick and thin. I don’t get that feeling in MSP.


A company generally can't buy sincerity thorough outsourcing. OO does outsourced sincerity well, but they are a rarity.

/edit to fix autocorrect and formatting
 
Aptivaboy
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:05 pm

The issue with Alaska's hard product isn't that its worse than anyone else's; its that it isn't markedly better than anyone else's. Assuming fares are about the same price, there's no compelling reason for the average cost-conscious flyer to book on Alaska when the hard product is no different, and certainly not demonstrably superior.
 
Chugach
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:28 pm

ytib wrote:
Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:

I don't see that happening. With no TSA at either of those it would be too much of a hassle to bring that in there like they do in Cold Bay. Also can the runways even handle a E175?

I'm sure the locals would love having that type of service though.


Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.


It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.


Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:35 pm

Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Kenai and Homer both have more runway than most other airports AS serves in Alaska. Off the top of my head...WRG, PSG, GST, SIT, DLG, OTZ, BET, SCC, and I believe OME and BRW.


It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.


Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.

I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:42 pm

32andBelow wrote:
I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.

It's a 2+ hour drive from Girdwood some summers.
How's about an RV park and ride at ENA?
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.

It's a 2+ hour drive from Girdwood some summers.
How's about an RV park and ride at ENA?

I think AQY would be a little tough!!!
 
Chugach
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:46 pm

32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:
ytib wrote:

It is not runway length which would be the concern but weight limits on the pavement. I just checked and they could handle the heavier planes with a PCN which is equal to or better than WRG or YAK.


Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.

I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.


More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:55 pm

Chugach wrote:
32andBelow wrote:
Chugach wrote:

Kenai sees 737’s from time to time when the wind shear at ANC causes diversions.

The bigger issue is TSA. I’d be surprised if ENA isn’t at least on AS’ radar. It’s the biggest market in Alaska they don’t serve, and a bigger market than many of their existing Alaska destinations, but it seems like they are waiting to see what happens with Zombie Ravn first. HOM is a lot smaller than ENA but could still handle AS service. I travel to ENA in particular with some frequency from the lower 48, and losing connecting options on Ravn hurts big time. Grant Aviation is ok for local traffic but with no interline at ANC doesn’t really cut it for most people needing to get beyond ANC. AS getting into the Kenai Peninsula would be a huge boost.

I think homer could support it but ENA seems like an absolute no brainer. While it is a very short flight (it would probably be less than 10 minutes on an e175, it’s about a 2+ hour drive and more in the winter.


More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.

The moral thing to do would be to end float Alaska before it drags people along for another year.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:02 pm

Chugach wrote:
More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.


It is a lot better than it used to be, and be it by accident or design the DOT is making good use of our light traffic summer to make vast improvements between Girdwood and Turnagain Pass. In the next ten years, we should see the Copper Landing Bypass and the overall drive should be upgraded from a "damned road" to merely a "40 oz. of coffee" road, filled with damned RVs.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:07 pm

NameOmitted wrote:
Chugach wrote:
More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.


It is a lot better than it used to be, and be it by accident or design the DOT is making good use of our light traffic summer to make vast improvements between Girdwood and Turnagain Pass. In the next ten years, we should see the Copper Landing Bypass and the overall drive should be upgraded from a "damned road" to merely a "40 oz. of coffee" road, filled with damned RVs.

We need a couple bridges and we’d really be stylin.
 
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NameOmitted
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:11 pm

32andBelow wrote:
NameOmitted wrote:
Chugach wrote:
More like a 3 hour drive, and I’ve had my share of “unforgettable” experiences on that damn road between Anchorage and Kenai, just like anybody else who has ever spent time up there. There’s a reason why Ravn had so many ANC-ENA flights every day.


It is a lot better than it used to be, and be it by accident or design the DOT is making good use of our light traffic summer to make vast improvements between Girdwood and Turnagain Pass. In the next ten years, we should see the Copper Landing Bypass and the overall drive should be upgraded from a "damned road" to merely a "40 oz. of coffee" road, filled with damned RVs.

We need a couple bridges and we’d really be stylin.

A ferry to Point Possession and an upgrade to Pipeline Road would be a lot cheaper... Provided the ferry was not a military proof of concept prototype, of course.
 
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usxguy
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:35 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!


Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).
xx
 
roadrunner165
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
The issue with Alaska's hard product isn't that its worse than anyone else's; its that it isn't markedly better than anyone else's. Assuming fares are about the same price, there's no compelling reason for the average cost-conscious flyer to book on Alaska when the hard product is no different, and certainly not demonstrably superior.



I'll take a stab at this one. And I know, my experience is anecdotal. This is where the Mileage Plan comes into play. If you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who flies once or twice a year and simply wants the cheapest fare -- that's what Saver fares goes after as that type of customer will always fly whoever has the cheapest seat and typically doesn't care about hard product anyhow. But if you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who travels regularly (4 times a year or more) and is halfway intelligent, then those passengers begin to factor in the value of each airlines rewards program. I routinely price shop, but when I factor in the value of the miles earned that I will use towards future free tickets, Alaska becomes superior quite fast. Again, my experience is my own. But I don't think I'm alone. I always did the math, even before I had status.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:38 pm

usxguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!


Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).


about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.
 
LAXBUR
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:19 pm

roadrunner165 wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
The issue with Alaska's hard product isn't that its worse than anyone else's; its that it isn't markedly better than anyone else's. Assuming fares are about the same price, there's no compelling reason for the average cost-conscious flyer to book on Alaska when the hard product is no different, and certainly not demonstrably superior.



I'll take a stab at this one. And I know, my experience is anecdotal. This is where the Mileage Plan comes into play. If you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who flies once or twice a year and simply wants the cheapest fare -- that's what Saver fares goes after as that type of customer will always fly whoever has the cheapest seat and typically doesn't care about hard product anyhow. But if you define average cost-conscious flyer as someone who travels regularly (4 times a year or more) and is halfway intelligent, then those passengers begin to factor in the value of each airlines rewards program. I routinely price shop, but when I factor in the value of the miles earned that I will use towards future free tickets, Alaska becomes superior quite fast. Again, my experience is my own. But I don't think I'm alone. I always did the math, even before I had status.


People like Alaska. They tend to be nicer than other airlines. They have a valuable FF program and lots of partners. They win awards. A few people seem to omit that. Is Alaska some amazing experience? No. The person trying to suggest B6 is somehow leaps and bounds above Alaska in coach is a bit delusional. All economy seats on all airlines are cramped and uncomfortable. Some have screens which is nice. And those arguing about Alaska First vs JetBlue Mint are arguing about products that aren’t actually competing. It is really quite dumb and a waste of time. Alaska offers a competitive product vs US3 traditional First. Anyone that has actually flown Alaska can tell you that. Back during the VX merger a lot of people went on about how awful Alaska was and later admitted they’d never flown them. Have a feeling this is still happening.

JetBlue is great too. It is pretty amazing how just being nice gets an airline. Both Alaska and JetBlue offer a product that slots itself between US3 and WN. I’m not sure why the hate for Alaska (or JetBlue) even exists. I usually stick to Alaska, Delta and Southwest because they’re mostly nice and fly where I need to go. I’ve had consistently apathetic to not so nice experience on other carriers.
 
bayareablue
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:34 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
usxguy wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:

I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!


Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).


about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.


Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:46 pm

I got to thinking...this tie-up between both AS and B6 with AA is a huge middle finger to DL and their encroachment into SEA and BOS. Revenge can sometimes be sweet...we'll see how the story plays out.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:20 am

hiflyeras wrote:
I got to thinking...this tie-up between both AS and B6 with AA is a huge middle finger to DL and their encroachment into SEA and BOS. Revenge can sometimes be sweet...we'll see how the story plays out.


Don't get too excited, since it hasn't happened yet. Yes...it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. It could be a great success...and it could be a great failure.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 12:50 am

Personally I am surprised this thread has gone this far. It is not as if any one airline is
clair·voy·ant or anything! I do not think even Alaska could react almost overnight to these few new JetBlue routes as was done.

It is actually kind of preposterous to think Alaska would do this without scripted research actually. I am sure these routes were well in the planning process way before JetBlue’s quite advertised displeasure, relocation, and draw down of LGB.

Just my 2 cents. Should be interesting to see if California’s governor does everything he can possibly do to keep the California economy shut down at a detriment to free enterprise and its citizens as he seems intent on doing.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:29 am

bayareablue wrote:
Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


I could have sworn the first 3 of the -800s came with mid-cabin lavs as well. In any event, at a leadership summit a decade ago, I was in a group with Irv Bertram, the man who quite literally signed for every new plane AS had in the past 20-30 years, and we had a LONG talk about mid-cabin lavs. His final take was yeah, the customer satisfaction scores are higher for them, but when you look at a 20 year average service life with AS before selling the fleet on the secondhand market, they're easier to move and at a higher value when there's no fixed monument to contend with removing, re-plumbing, etc. Magnify that by the 61 -800s in the fleet and you're talking serious money, and the cost-benefit analysis of that slight score increase vs. the fixed costs won on the cost saving side.

Of course in a post-COVID world I have no idea if those cost savings still pencil out...
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:36 am

EA CO AS wrote:
bayareablue wrote:
Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


I could have sworn the first 3 of the -800s came with mid-cabin lavs as well. In any event, at a leadership summit a decade ago, I was in a group with Irv Bertram, the man who quite literally signed for every new plane AS had in the past 20-30 years, and we had a LONG talk about mid-cabin lavs. His final take was yeah, the customer satisfaction scores are higher for them, but when you look at a 20 year average service life with AS before selling the fleet on the secondhand market, they're easier to move and at a higher value when there's no fixed monument to contend with removing, re-plumbing, etc. Magnify that by the 61 -800s in the fleet and you're talking serious money, and the cost-benefit analysis of that slight score increase vs. the fixed costs won on the cost saving side.

Of course in a post-COVID world I have no idea if those cost savings still pencil out...


The first 3 -800's were originally ordered by and configured for Delta. Alaska got them because Delta didn't take delivery for whatever reason so Alaska was able to take those orders and expedite delivery of their first -800's. They always had 3 lavs in the back and one up front.

I've heard Ben give the same reason to everyone for not adding mid cabin lavs. On the flip side Ben has also said Alaska is not in the used airplane market and they buy planes that suit their needs. I wonder the real reason they retrofitted those planes that had mid cabin lavs and discontinued ordering them in that configuration. They are definitely more passenger friendly.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:40 am

bayareablue wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
usxguy wrote:

Is my aging memory bad or did I fly in a few Alaska birds with a lav at 6ABC?!? Cause having a fwd lav really does make a difference in traffic flow.

Heard back from a friend at AS HDQ. Apparently a data mine project showed that almost 2/5th of SEATPA's traffic is from SW Florida (Sarasota south).


about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.


Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


Thanks - I knew there were a handful. Funny, because I knew the -900's that started with 30 (like 305, 306) were no mid cabin lav. Whenever I saw one of the 315 + numbers I knew it would be a good flight. LOL I did also hear they had plumbing issues more frequently. I wonder if the A321's experience similar issues.
 
QXAS
Posts: 365
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:34 am

ASFlyer wrote:
bayareablue wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

about 10 or so of the 737-900's originally had a lav and a really large closet at row 6. Having a lav somewhere else in the cabin other than the rear and the front are really nice for the passengers - especially during service. The Airbus A321 has a lav about 2/3 of the way back.


Close, 6 of the 12 classic 900’s had the mid cabin lav with large closet across the way - N315AS-N323AS.
While I agree they were great from a guest perspective, they were out of service frequently for clogged waste lines which hurt the reliability. They also provided less flexibility in adjusting your cabin seating layout.

Blue


Thanks - I knew there were a handful. Funny, because I knew the -900's that started with 30 (like 305, 306) were no mid cabin lav. Whenever I saw one of the 315 + numbers I knew it would be a good flight. LOL I did also hear they had plumbing issues more frequently. I wonder if the A321's experience similar issues.

I have a sizable collection of the old AS trading cards. Miss those things, I bring them with me when I travel and ask crews to sign them. But I digress, what made me think about those is the card for N318AS makes the presence of the mid cabin lavatory fairly obvious. But it’s something I never knew AS had until it was mentioned in this thread. My first 739 flight was on UA in 2014. UA has the mid cabin lavatory and it makes the flight so much more pleasant. Less traffic in the F cabin and Y pax don’t need to worry about carts. Then I moved to AZ and now I fly on AS 739s constantly, often wishing there was a lavatory in the Y cabin not blocked by carts.

On the topic of the thread, some interesting adds here. Particularly RSW. I’m also happy to see LAX get some adds. I would be more appreciative of the OW/AA relationship except for the small detail of the vast number of LUS aircraft based at my home airport. I do hope to see AS and B6 cooperate in the future, I don’t want a merger because I love both carriers for different reasons and losing either one would be a detriment to the industry. But a codeshare and earn and burn agreement between the two would make AA-AS-B6 a force to be reckoned with.
I am NOT an employee of any airline or manufacturer. I speak for myself, not on the behalf of any company.
 
jacobchoi
Posts: 126
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:22 am

Sorry if this has been mentioned before but what are the chances they could launch ANC-NRT
 
LAXBUR
Posts: 412
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:09 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
I got to thinking...this tie-up between both AS and B6 with AA is a huge middle finger to DL and their encroachment into SEA and BOS. Revenge can sometimes be sweet...we'll see how the story plays out.


Don't get too excited, since it hasn't happened yet. Yes...it will be interesting to see how it all pans out. It could be a great success...and it could be a great failure.


“Great failure” seems like strong language for the scenario where codesharing doesn’t work out. At least for AS & B6.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:27 pm

SANFan wrote:
I wanted to post here that there are new flights appearing in Alaska's schedules today (and last night) but so far there's no announcement nor even a new OAG thread to post them on.

So far, I've found new SAN/PDX - CUN service beginning on 11/20; both routes are sub-daily and daylight flights operated with 738s. As of now, the flights all end around 4/11/21.

Also, in March 2021, AS will inaugurate 2 more related routes: SAN and SJC to MSO. Both will fly daily on EMJs starting 3/11/21 and appear permanent. This is certainly the first daily service from SAN to MT that I'm aware of even though G4 flies once in a while, a couple days a week to BIL. I do not know SJC's history well enough to comment on that.

There may well be other new routes loaded in AS's schedules but at this point, anyone interested in them will have to look for them! I'm happy to do that for SAN but I'm not as young as I used to be so I'm limited in how much I can look thru...

The OAG thread came online today and it appears that SFO-MSO will also be inaugurated Mar 11, along with SAN & SJC. If I'm not mistaken, that will connect MSO and Western Montana with all 6 of AS's hubs and focus cities located in the Lower 48 -- SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX and SAN. Way to grow Alaska!

bb
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:44 pm

SANFan wrote:
The OAG thread came online today and it appears that SFO-MSO will also be inaugurated Mar 11, along with SAN & SJC. If I'm not mistaken, that will connect MSO and Western Montana with all 6 of AS's hubs and focus cities located in the Lower 48 -- SEA, PDX, SFO, SJC, LAX and SAN. Way to grow Alaska!

bb


Great news for Montana...and those wanting to visit. Thanks for the good news, SANFan!!
 
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SANFan
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:28 am

This evening, I see that the times are being completely changed on the new SAN/PDX-FLL/CUN flights that start (hopefully) in November.

I guess the original times and frequencies were just too perfect to hold up. I'd sure love to know what's going on; the flights now show as leaving FLL & CUN in the mornings, arriving the west coast around noon, turning and flying back to FLL & CUN respectively now arriving there at night. Really messes up hotel check-in and -out. I guess at this point in time, I'll just be glad if the flights start at all...

bb
 
CobaltScar
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Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Wed Jul 22, 2020 12:25 pm

Mid cabin lavs are awesome and I hope with all this hype over social distancing they make a standard comeback. The nasty and fairly new configuration of having lavs actually IN the galley will come back to bite the carriers that did it. Customers are being educated on the germ (and worse) plumes flushing toilets causes. So flush toilet, then swing open lav door, wafting all that mess directly into the galley. Awful.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:44 pm

nine4nine wrote:
When the WiFi and seatback power port actually works. I’ve been on some AS, WN, and UA flights where the network was down the entire flight or the power wasn’t there or INOP. At least in the old days before IFE at least you had a big cushy seat with the option to sleep the flight away. Now sitting on a park bench which is pretty impossible to even sleep with nothing to stare at other than a plastic seat back is misery.

And I've been on AA, UA, and DL flights where the IFE seat back screen was INOP, the WiFi kept rebooting, or the seats didn't recline (and no, these weren't exit row seats or the very last row). Does that mean they all have an inferior hard product too?

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Should be interesting to see if California’s governor does everything he can possibly do to keep the California economy shut down at a detriment to free enterprise and its citizens as he seems intent on doing.
Because it's been working out so great for TX and FL who did the opposite, right?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
GatorClark
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:55 am

USAirALB wrote:
The Florida routes are interesting.

AA attempted LAX-TPA a couple years back and it didn't quite work out. I think DL has been on the route for years now. The RSW adds are quite perplexing to me; I don't think anyone has attempted RSW-West Coast service. I never really thought RSW was popular for West Coast travelers as it seems much more a Midwestern market. I can't really see RSW working out in the long run.


Even though I'm a DL employee and fly DL whenever possible, I'm excited about the possibility of being able to fly from my home airport of RSW-LAX/SEA nonstop.. And I've been wanting to try out AS anyways so I really hope they can make this work. I've always wondered why DL never had an RSW-SLC/SEA/LAX flight. As a ramp rat, I would see TONS of bags coming through daily that were bound for LAX & SLC.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1830
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:05 am

Flew several of the non ER 739's with mid-lav. Night and day. DAL also made the same, idiotic decision to no-go on mid-cabin.

AS first 3 738's were initially ordered by DAL years earlier but by time of delivery had long been sold to lessors - 50 or so aircraft when it was all said in done.

EA CO AS wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
Yeah, we're going to probably have to agree to disagree.


I think we’re in agreement; they definitely didn’t want an Airbus fleet, although they did fall in love with the A321NEO once they inherited it. It wouldn’t surprise me to see those disappear in favor of MAX9s and possibly even MAX10s, though. Just give us mid-cabin lavs!
 
ASFlyer
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:54 am

n7371f wrote:
Flew several of the non ER 739's with mid-lav. Night and day. DAL also made the same, idiotic decision to no-go on mid-cabin.

AS first 3 738's were initially ordered by DAL years earlier but by time of delivery had long been sold to lessors - 50 or so aircraft when it was all said in done.


:thumbsup: that mid cabin lav is a game changer in terms of passenger comfort and convenience
 
gmcc
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:05 am

ASFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Flew several of the non ER 739's with mid-lav. Night and day. DAL also made the same, idiotic decision to no-go on mid-cabin.

AS first 3 738's were initially ordered by DAL years earlier but by time of delivery had long been sold to lessors - 50 or so aircraft when it was all said in done.


:thumbsup: that mid cabin lav is a game changer in terms of passenger comfort and convenience


But they depress the resale value of the plane on the 2nd hand market, so the must go.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4261
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:25 pm

gmcc wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Flew several of the non ER 739's with mid-lav. Night and day. DAL also made the same, idiotic decision to no-go on mid-cabin.

AS first 3 738's were initially ordered by DAL years earlier but by time of delivery had long been sold to lessors - 50 or so aircraft when it was all said in done.


:thumbsup: that mid cabin lav is a game changer in terms of passenger comfort and convenience


But they depress the resale value of the plane on the 2nd hand market, so the must go.


Good design could take care of that. Even if the comfort of millions of flyers over the life of the plane is of no account.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
n7371f
Posts: 1830
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Re: AS claps back at B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:38 am

Don't tell UAL.

gmcc wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Flew several of the non ER 739's with mid-lav. Night and day. DAL also made the same, idiotic decision to no-go on mid-cabin.

AS first 3 738's were initially ordered by DAL years earlier but by time of delivery had long been sold to lessors - 50 or so aircraft when it was all said in done.


:thumbsup: that mid cabin lav is a game changer in terms of passenger comfort and convenience


But they depress the resale value of the plane on the 2nd hand market, so the must go.
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1291
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: AS responds to B6, announces LAX and FLL expansion

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:57 am

Perhaps mid-cabin lavs should merit their own thread?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
HNLSLCPDX
Posts: 217
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:55 pm

Was thinking this with the potential Oneworld membership starting. Is there a plan for AS to brand and name their regional/affiliate flying done by QX and OO similar to Delta Connection, American Eagle, etc.?
 
gmcc
Posts: 345
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:08 pm

HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Was thinking this with the potential Oneworld membership starting. Is there a plan for AS to brand and name their regional/affiliate flying done by QX and OO similar to Delta Connection, American Eagle, etc.?


AS does that already, all QX flight are branded Alaska Horizon and all OO flight have Alaska skywest.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 613
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Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:52 pm

Alaska recently went on record stating that its competitors are dumping capacity and lowering fares, but then go on to announce new service in San Jose, CA. Can't those San Jose passengers get where they need to go on competing connecting networks without adding capacity then, or does Alaska need to operate in a vacuum so that they can expand in markets without much retaliation amid a recovery (?)

Sorry, having trouble with link:
Yahoo - Alaska Airlines President Wants Competitors to Stop Dumping Cheap Seats
 
joeblow10
Posts: 424
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:31 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
Alaska recently went on record stating that its competitors are dumping capacity and lowering fares, but then go on to announce new service in San Jose, CA. Can't those San Jose passengers get where they need to go on competing connecting networks without adding capacity then, or does Alaska need to operate in a vacuum so that they can expand in markets without much retaliation amid a recovery (?)

Sorry, having trouble with link:
Yahoo - Alaska Airlines President Wants Competitors to Stop Dumping Cheap Seats


I think it’s very clear LCCs are chasing the long term gains from this crisis as the legacies hurt. AS and B6 especially, given all of their announced expansion, along with WN essentially running more flights than anybody else. We’ll see if any of that materializes in the long run.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 4975
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

Re: Alaska Airlines Network Thread 2020

Fri Jul 24, 2020 10:47 pm

gmcc wrote:
HNLSLCPDX wrote:
Was thinking this with the potential Oneworld membership starting. Is there a plan for AS to brand and name their regional/affiliate flying done by QX and OO similar to Delta Connection, American Eagle, etc.?


AS does that already, all QX flight are branded Alaska Horizon and all OO flight have Alaska skywest.

I think his point is a delta e175 would never say Skywest or compass on the side.

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