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CobaltScar
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 2:48 pm

NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Theres's a disconnect between management and the pilot group, I think largely caused by the government assistance. Management knows the true severity of the situation while the pilots have been among the largest benefactors (probably in the world) of pandemic assistance. There's no urgency on the pilot's part to grow the business (or modify anything for that matter) as long as government funds them. If there's no urgency, then it's time to leverage the CBA for further gains.


I don't blame the pilots and would not give anything away for anything close to a fantastic deal. The pilots advocating for themselves and not budging on scope indirectly helps at least the FA group since every flight saved on B6 metal is another flight FAs get to work too instead of some regional for min. wage. Good for them for getting in a contract before all this mess hit the fan.

And if the government is going to shovel free money at the airlines , for the employees support, then there is no urgency. Lets wait and see. If the airlines need more money, then let them issue new stock.
 
chonetsao
Posts: 904
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 3:55 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:04 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
And if the government is going to shovel free money at the airlines , for the employees support, then there is no urgency. Lets wait and see. If the airlines need more money, then let them issue new stock.


or the airline just declare bankruptcy and everyone looses.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1944
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:05 pm

does anyone know any sample codeshare connections/markets being offered in this 1st phase?
 
tphuang
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:15 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Theres's a disconnect between management and the pilot group, I think largely caused by the government assistance. Management knows the true severity of the situation while the pilots have been among the largest benefactors (probably in the world) of pandemic assistance. There's no urgency on the pilot's part to grow the business (or modify anything for that matter) as long as government funds them. If there's no urgency, then it's time to leverage the CBA for further gains.


I don't blame the pilots and would not give anything away for anything close to a fantastic deal. The pilots advocating for themselves and not budging on scope indirectly helps at least the FA group since every flight saved on B6 metal is another flight FAs get to work too instead of some regional for min. wage. Good for them for getting in a contract before all this mess hit the fan.

And if the government is going to shovel free money at the airlines , for the employees support, then there is no urgency. Lets wait and see. If the airlines need more money, then let them issue new stock.


LGA/JFK have fixed number of slots. These are already flights flown by AA or AA regional. And now they want to put B6 codeshare on those flights. Is there evidence that B6 is going to fly less and hand those flying to AA regional? B6 mainline has much lower CASM than AA mainline and AA regional. As long as market can support small mainline aircraft, it would make more sense to fly the lower cost mainline aircraft. They are increasing fleet size by 15 this year and by 12 next year. That would indicate quite a bit of growth going forward.
 
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Midwestindy
Topic Author
Posts: 6078
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 3:27 pm

RJNUT wrote:
does anyone know any sample codeshare connections/markets being offered in this 1st phase?


https://twitter.com/WandrMe/status/1362 ... 74592?s=20

BOS-ATL/BNA/BUF/BWI/CLE/DEN/DTW/IAH/JAX/JFK/LAX/MCO/MSP/PBI/PIT/RIC/RSW/SAV/SEA/SFO/SLC/TPA

JFK-ATL/AUS/BOS/BTV/BUF/CHS/DEN/DTW/IAH/JAX/LAS/MCO/MSP/MSY/PBI/PDX/RDU/RNO/ROC/RSW/SAN/SEA/SFO/SLC/SYR/TPA, LGA-RSW/TPA
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 6355
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:08 pm

tphuang wrote:
nc3rd wrote:
Looks like code share also gives Jetblue regional feed that they werent allowed to have under their contract. Routes that were too thing for a 190 or A320 now being flown by American Eagle. Biggest winner here seems to be Newark.


That's a really high cost regional feed. B6 with E90 or A220 should have no problem flying to places like CMH/IND from BOS and NYC.

EWR is where the demand is right now. I won't be surprised if B6 came into this thinking additional LGA flying is the biggest win they get from this deal, but are finding out that people would rather fly out of Newark



Again, EWR demand is there because troops in fatigues arent greeting you at the gate to fill out paperwork.

Those troops are now getting aggressive.

They have roped off the concourse exits at T5 and verbally threatening people with fines

Nobody wants to deal with that. It is Banana Republic tactics in America

Hence, the shining star at Newark.

Medium term, that will balance out
 
11C
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:33 pm

chonetsao wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
And if the government is going to shovel free money at the airlines , for the employees support, then there is no urgency. Lets wait and see. If the airlines need more money, then let them issue new stock.


or the airline just declare bankruptcy and everyone looses.


Nice try! The old, worn out axiom about “labor’s foolishness drove the company/industry into bankruptcy,” is hard to sell in light of multi billions in stock buybacks which preceded this industry melt down. And besides that, it’s “loses.”
 
Ishrion
Posts: 3633
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:44 pm

All of the codeshare routes for both airlines: https://viewfromthewing.com/the-interna ... s-release/
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:48 pm

chonetsao wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
And if the government is going to shovel free money at the airlines , for the employees support, then there is no urgency. Lets wait and see. If the airlines need more money, then let them issue new stock.


or the airline just declare bankruptcy and everyone looses.


Or another airline most assuredly buys them and then suddenly all the work groups get rolled into existing much better contracts and pay scales! -fingerscrossed-
 
11C
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:25 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 4:52 pm

NYCSKYGUY wrote:
Theres's a disconnect between management and the pilot group, I think largely caused by the government assistance. Management knows the true severity of the situation while the pilots have been among the largest benefactors (probably in the world) of pandemic assistance. There's no urgency on the pilot's part to grow the business (or modify anything for that matter) as long as government funds them. If there's no urgency, then it's time to leverage the CBA for further gains.


I think everyone knows the urgency of the situation. But this current situation doesn’t erase 20 years of work getting to this first CBA. We had to pay dearly for what we have, and we don’t intend on tossing it at the first opportunity.
 
B6twufa
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:35 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 5:25 pm

JoseSalazar wrote:
catiii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


You know what it is? many of these posters are fanboys that know nothing about the nuts and bolts of scope. They are excited over new routes (to be announced today) and paint jobs. I get it. im a fanboy too.

But when you have a mortgage to pay and family to support, this is about so much more than shiny new jet syndrome.

Scope protects pilot jobs.

B6 pilots have ironclad scope. the company negotiated this scope just a few years ago. The rest of the contract is mediocre. Now, management wants relief from scope for 10 years and in return offered a one time 2 percent raise and 10 months of furlough protection that wont be needed because of ongoing government aid that doesnt allow furloughs.

Now, the company and union will go to expedited arbitration.

The company will be going in with an on the record “we are implementing this anyway”

Not a good spot to be.

Or, the union and company will renegotiate something to get the pilots onboard.


Not a good spot to be in for who, the company? Why? LOA 12 already authorized them to move forward with it. The pilot group should be worried about an arbitrator who is going to point to it already being implemented, pax who have already bought tickets, and saying "what's the real damage here?"

The pilot group's anger is misguided. The company didn't unilaterally push this. They have an MEC who negotiated it and agreed to it.

Who cares what the MEC agreed to? What this weak MEC agrees to matters not if the members vote it down. Also, it is the same MEC that violated ALPA policy by not even giving the members a vote for LOA 12, and they should have been recalled for that. It wasn’t until recently that the full details of the NEA were revealed to the pilots. The MEC initially sold it to the pilots during LOA12 rollout as a simple codeshare that could have happened anyway per B6 scope if B6 were growing. The B6ALPA MEC/reps misrepresented what the details of the NEA were, and there are efforts being initiated as we speak to recall the 12 LEC members who voted yes and who support the MEC (that’s the first step of recalling the MEC...as the members can’t directly recall the MEC). Pilots are angry at the MEC/NC for putting this crap deal together, and angry at the company for blatantly violating the most sacred part of the contract. This is why ALPA got voted in in the first place 6 years ago. The company is used to the direct relationship and violating their word and their agreements with workgroups, and peeing on them while saying it’s raining out. They continue to show their true colors. They preach integrity, but then blatantly violate it. They have now declared war on the pilot group. It won’t go well for the company, both from the pilots’ standpoint, or the arbitrator’s. If this vote were to reopen, it would fail by an even larger margin. I know quite a few yes voters who have already turned against the company.


Spot on!
 
A388
Posts: 8068
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Is there any chance this AA and B6 cooperation will extend outside the US and to the Caribbean? If so, from which cities? MIA, BOS and JFK maybe?

A388
 
ChrisPBacon
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:14 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:46 pm

A388 wrote:
Is there any chance this AA and B6 cooperation will extend outside the US and to the Caribbean? If so, from which cities? MIA, BOS and JFK maybe?


What other cities would it make sense from?

Eventually it may happen, but it would require foreign agencies to sign off on the deal, whereas the current deal does not. So for the near futur? No. Long run, I still think it's more likely that both carriers go through a "car wash" bankruptcy, and emerge as one carrier. But I know that stirs the pot here.
 
DashTrash
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:53 pm

catiii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
SPREE34 wrote:

You're forgetting protecting Scope. B6ALPA is avoiding the slippery slope the other pilots groups did not, and are paying for to this day. Once they allow company a chip in scope, company will be back for a chunk. The no vote here protected Scope.



You know what it is? many of these posters are fanboys that know nothing about the nuts and bolts of scope. They are excited over new routes (to be announced today) and paint jobs. I get it. im a fanboy too.

But when you have a mortgage to pay and family to support, this is about so much more than shiny new jet syndrome.

Scope protects pilot jobs.

B6 pilots have ironclad scope. the company negotiated this scope just a few years ago. The rest of the contract is mediocre. Now, management wants relief from scope for 10 years and in return offered a one time 2 percent raise and 10 months of furlough protection that wont be needed because of ongoing government aid that doesnt allow furloughs.

Now, the company and union will go to expedited arbitration.

The company will be going in with an on the record “we are implementing this anyway”

Not a good spot to be.

Or, the union and company will renegotiate something to get the pilots onboard.


Not a good spot to be in for who, the company? Why? LOA 12 already authorized them to move forward with it. The pilot group should be worried about an arbitrator who is going to point to it already being implemented, pax who have already bought tickets, and saying "what's the real damage here?"

The pilot group's anger is misguided. The company didn't unilaterally push this. They have an MEC who negotiated it and agreed to it.

You clearly do not understand how things work.

No arbitrator is going to consider tickets already sold as it is not germane. He/she will consider the intent of the section grieved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
catiii
Posts: 3873
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:26 am

DashTrash wrote:
catiii wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:


You know what it is? many of these posters are fanboys that know nothing about the nuts and bolts of scope. They are excited over new routes (to be announced today) and paint jobs. I get it. im a fanboy too.

But when you have a mortgage to pay and family to support, this is about so much more than shiny new jet syndrome.

Scope protects pilot jobs.

B6 pilots have ironclad scope. the company negotiated this scope just a few years ago. The rest of the contract is mediocre. Now, management wants relief from scope for 10 years and in return offered a one time 2 percent raise and 10 months of furlough protection that wont be needed because of ongoing government aid that doesnt allow furloughs.

Now, the company and union will go to expedited arbitration.

The company will be going in with an on the record “we are implementing this anyway”

Not a good spot to be.

Or, the union and company will renegotiate something to get the pilots onboard.


Not a good spot to be in for who, the company? Why? LOA 12 already authorized them to move forward with it. The pilot group should be worried about an arbitrator who is going to point to it already being implemented, pax who have already bought tickets, and saying "what's the real damage here?"

The pilot group's anger is misguided. The company didn't unilaterally push this. They have an MEC who negotiated it and agreed to it.

You clearly do not understand how things work.

No arbitrator is going to consider tickets already sold as it is not germane. He/she will consider the intent of the section grieved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:rotfl: I understand far more than you do. Watch and see...
 
catiii
Posts: 3873
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:47 am

JoseSalazar wrote:
Who cares what the MEC agreed to? What this weak MEC agrees to matters not if the members vote it down. Also, it is the same MEC that violated ALPA policy by not even giving the members a vote for LOA 12, and they should have been recalled for that. It wasn’t until recently that the full details of the NEA were revealed to the pilots. The MEC initially sold it to the pilots during LOA12 rollout as a simple codeshare that could have happened anyway per B6 scope if B6 were growing. The B6ALPA MEC/reps misrepresented what the details of the NEA were, and there are efforts being initiated as we speak to recall the 12 LEC members who voted yes and who support the MEC (that’s the first step of recalling the MEC...as the members can’t directly recall the MEC). Pilots are angry at the MEC/NC for putting this crap deal together, and angry at the company for blatantly violating the most sacred part of the contract. This is why ALPA got voted in in the first place 6 years ago. The company is used to the direct relationship and violating their word and their agreements with workgroups, and peeing on them while saying it’s raining out. They continue to show their true colors. They preach integrity, but then blatantly violate it. They have now declared war on the pilot group. It won’t go well for the company, both from the pilots’ standpoint, or the arbitrator’s. If this vote were to reopen, it would fail by an even larger margin. I know quite a few yes voters who have already turned against the company.


So let me get this right: I say the pilot group’s anger is misguided and should be directed at the MEC who negotiated the deal in the first place on behalf of the pilots it represents that it thought could pass a vote with the pilot group, and your response is “this is what got ALPA voted in in the first place?” The same ALPA that put together the deal that the pilot group is so pissed off about? Who is the company supposed to negotiate with then if not the collective bargaining unit and leadership that the pilots elected to represent them who agree to a deal and agree to put it up for a vote? They didn’t have to agree to TA. They could have pushed back and continued to negotiate.

But yeah, it’s the company’s fault that the MEC agreed to the LOA.

What “word” or “agreement” with “workgroups” did they violate? I don’t see any of the non-union workgroups complaining about anything. Did the company say they weren’t going to furlough Airports or Tech Ops or SOC etc and then furlough? Did the company say they were going to go forward with their pay reviews and increases and then not do it? We know the answer.

Maybe the direct relationship actually works better than the indirect one.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5362
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:26 am

Ishrion wrote:
All of the codeshare routes for both airlines: https://viewfromthewing.com/the-interna ... s-release/


Interesting given the discussion about IND and CMH over the last couple pages that B6 doesn't appear to be codesharing into either on AA's flights (at least at this point).
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 2953
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:41 am

Is this deal dead? I hope so. The last thing we need is decreased competition.
 
evank516
Posts: 2264
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 4:40 pm

I saw AA is relaunching LGA-MCI for the third time. Why do they expect it to work this time if they’ve dropped the axe on it two other times in the past?
 
catiii
Posts: 3873
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:08 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Is this deal dead? I hope so. The last thing we need is decreased competition.


Nope. https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlin ... re-program
 
DashTrash
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:37 pm

catiii wrote:
DashTrash wrote:
catiii wrote:

Not a good spot to be in for who, the company? Why? LOA 12 already authorized them to move forward with it. The pilot group should be worried about an arbitrator who is going to point to it already being implemented, pax who have already bought tickets, and saying "what's the real damage here?"

The pilot group's anger is misguided. The company didn't unilaterally push this. They have an MEC who negotiated it and agreed to it.

You clearly do not understand how things work.

No arbitrator is going to consider tickets already sold as it is not germane. He/she will consider the intent of the section grieved.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:rotfl: I understand far more than you do. Watch and see...

It doesn’t appear that way.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
DashTrash
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:41 pm

catiii wrote:
JoseSalazar wrote:
Who cares what the MEC agreed to? What this weak MEC agrees to matters not if the members vote it down. Also, it is the same MEC that violated ALPA policy by not even giving the members a vote for LOA 12, and they should have been recalled for that. It wasn’t until recently that the full details of the NEA were revealed to the pilots. The MEC initially sold it to the pilots during LOA12 rollout as a simple codeshare that could have happened anyway per B6 scope if B6 were growing. The B6ALPA MEC/reps misrepresented what the details of the NEA were, and there are efforts being initiated as we speak to recall the 12 LEC members who voted yes and who support the MEC (that’s the first step of recalling the MEC...as the members can’t directly recall the MEC). Pilots are angry at the MEC/NC for putting this crap deal together, and angry at the company for blatantly violating the most sacred part of the contract. This is why ALPA got voted in in the first place 6 years ago. The company is used to the direct relationship and violating their word and their agreements with workgroups, and peeing on them while saying it’s raining out. They continue to show their true colors. They preach integrity, but then blatantly violate it. They have now declared war on the pilot group. It won’t go well for the company, both from the pilots’ standpoint, or the arbitrator’s. If this vote were to reopen, it would fail by an even larger margin. I know quite a few yes voters who have already turned against the company.


So let me get this right: I say the pilot group’s anger is misguided and should be directed at the MEC who negotiated the deal in the first place on behalf of the pilots it represents that it thought could pass a vote with the pilot group, and your response is “this is what got ALPA voted in in the first place?” The same ALPA that put together the deal that the pilot group is so pissed off about? Who is the company supposed to negotiate with then if not the collective bargaining unit and leadership that the pilots elected to represent them who agree to a deal and agree to put it up for a vote? They didn’t have to agree to TA. They could have pushed back and continued to negotiate.

But yeah, it’s the company’s fault that the MEC agreed to the LOA.

What “word” or “agreement” with “workgroups” did they violate? I don’t see any of the non-union workgroups complaining about anything. Did the company say they weren’t going to furlough Airports or Tech Ops or SOC etc and then furlough? Did the company say they were going to go forward with their pay reviews and increases and then not do it? We know the answer.

Maybe the direct relationship actually works better than the indirect one.

If I’m not mistaken the LOA was voted on and rejected. If that’s true then the pilot group should and would be disgusted with both the MEC and management.

I would bet money this will involve multiple arbitrations should the company be found to have violated the contract.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sat Feb 20, 2021 10:37 pm

catiii wrote:

What “word” or “agreement” with “workgroups” did they violate? I don’t see any of the non-union workgroups complaining about anything. Did the company say they weren’t going to furlough Airports or Tech Ops or SOC etc and then furlough? Did the company say they were going to go forward with their pay reviews and increases and then not do it? We know the answer.

Maybe the direct relationship actually works better than the indirect one.



They suspended 5 percent of the previous retirement benefit. They are suspending the future 13+ year crewmember yearly longevity bonus.

And guess who had no say in it? the contract-less groups
 
Blueballs
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:21 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:06 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:

What “word” or “agreement” with “workgroups” did they violate? I don’t see any of the non-union workgroups complaining about anything. Did the company say they weren’t going to furlough Airports or Tech Ops or SOC etc and then furlough? Did the company say they were going to go forward with their pay reviews and increases and then not do it? We know the answer.

Maybe the direct relationship actually works better than the indirect one.



They suspended 5 percent of the previous retirement benefit. They are suspending the future 13+ year crewmember yearly longevity bonus.

And guess who had no say in it? the contract-less groups

And boom goes the dynamite
 
Jshank83
Posts: 4178
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:29 pm

evank516 wrote:
I saw AA is relaunching LGA-MCI for the third time. Why do they expect it to work this time if they’ve dropped the axe on it two other times in the past?


I don’t understand why routes like this aren’t part of the codeshare. Why are they adding all these new routes when JetBlue does but not all will be codeshared? Maybe they will be later?
 
tphuang
Posts: 6302
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:14 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
I saw AA is relaunching LGA-MCI for the third time. Why do they expect it to work this time if they’ve dropped the axe on it two other times in the past?


I don’t understand why routes like this aren’t part of the codeshare. Why are they adding all these new routes when JetBlue does but not all will be codeshared? Maybe they will be later?

I think what you this week is the first salvo.

Over the next couple of months, I think we will see more routes and more codeshares. Airlines are still finding out where demand will be for summer and then for fall.
 
evank516
Posts: 2264
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:32 pm

I’m more surprised they didn’t hand over these domestic routes to B6 instead.
 
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TheLunchbox
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:37 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
catiii wrote:

What “word” or “agreement” with “workgroups” did they violate? I don’t see any of the non-union workgroups complaining about anything. Did the company say they weren’t going to furlough Airports or Tech Ops or SOC etc and then furlough? Did the company say they were going to go forward with their pay reviews and increases and then not do it? We know the answer.

Maybe the direct relationship actually works better than the indirect one.



They suspended 5 percent of the previous retirement benefit. They are suspending the future 13+ year crewmember yearly longevity bonus.

And guess who had no say in it? the contract-less groups


Temporary suspension of some benefits to ensure the longterm viability of a business severely impacted by a pandemic. Benefits will come back. Nothing to see here.
 
Nicknuzzii
Posts: 1847
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:57 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:03 pm

evank516 wrote:
I’m more surprised they didn’t hand over these domestic routes to B6 instead.


They won’t do that in the first round lol. They want to hide it a little bit!
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 9:04 pm

TheLunchbox wrote:
Temporary suspension of some benefits to ensure the longterm viability of a business severely impacted by a pandemic. Benefits will come back. Nothing to see here.


What about the workers who were severely impacted by this pandemic that need every penny and are getting their compensation reduced unilaterally? What about them?

No contracts, so nothing to see here.
 
User avatar
TheLunchbox
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:31 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:26 pm

CobaltScar wrote:
TheLunchbox wrote:
Temporary suspension of some benefits to ensure the longterm viability of a business severely impacted by a pandemic. Benefits will come back. Nothing to see here.


What about the workers who were severely impacted by this pandemic that need every penny and are getting their compensation reduced unilaterally? What about them?

No contracts, so nothing to see here.


the 5% into your 401k doesn't affect take home pay right now. you want the company to fund your lifestyle beyond the next couple years? help out a little bit. you'll be fine. back across the picket line, pal.
 
CobaltScar
Posts: 814
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 pm

Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 10:38 pm

TheLunchbox wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
TheLunchbox wrote:
Temporary suspension of some benefits to ensure the longterm viability of a business severely impacted by a pandemic. Benefits will come back. Nothing to see here.


What about the workers who were severely impacted by this pandemic that need every penny and are getting their compensation reduced unilaterally? What about them?

No contracts, so nothing to see here.


the 5% into your 401k doesn't affect take home pay right now. you want the company to fund your lifestyle beyond the next couple years? help out a little bit. you'll be fine. back across the picket line, pal.


Yes it does since penalty free 401k withdrawals and loans are a thing in these trying times, and you skipped over the future longevity yearly pay bonuses which were over 1k for those that got them and have now been shelved.

Our taxes are being used to help these companies, that should be enough while the govt. gravy flows.
 
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lightsaber
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:27 pm

Discuss the topic.
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LCDFlight
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Mon Feb 22, 2021 12:49 am

The free market will handle how hotel groups merge or form alliances, and airlines should be no different. Pilots are free to try to advocate for what they can. But please do not try to tax me to fund your $270k or whatever income, your lifestyle, your job security. Airlines are a volatile industry. Every serious-minded, and knowledgeable person involved in airlines knows that.

To keep this somewhat on topic, as the industry gets agitated (as it always has and will), new alliances form. Old companies die sometimes. Hotel industry, same. We all love these industries but they are not in any danger of ever going away. The private market is fully capable to fund them. Today, yesterday and tomorrow.
 
VS11
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:16 am

Not sure if this interview will present any new info but Yahoo Finance chats with Vasu Raja:

American and JetBlue just unveiled a new partnership with 33 new routes
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/america ... 08653.html
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:10 pm

VS11 wrote:
Not sure if this interview will present any new info but Yahoo Finance chats with Vasu Raja:

American and JetBlue just unveiled a new partnership with 33 new routes
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/america ... 08653.html


Definitely seems as though AA isn't going to be ceding much flying to B6. Especially given the MGIA, where each carrier is incentivized to grow on their own.

"By having these partnerships, we can combine the best of things that American Airlines has, which is flying long haul, flying to mid-continental markets like Indianapolis, or some of the great things that JetBlue, for example, does, which is flying to leisure destinations and things like that. And together, we can go and offer a much, much better proposition to a New York-based customer than what we could have done before."
ORD & IND

AA & DL
 
tphuang
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:33 pm

Nothing in NEA or MGIA change the fundamental issues that AA faces when operating their own metal in NYC. Their cost is too high and they get lower yield than even JetBlue to non-hub cities. Having JetBlue put some codeshares on their flight isn't going to significantly increase the number of people that will want to fly on AA. New Yorkers don't fly JetBlue because they have a good network or ff program. They fly JetBlue because it's a beloved hometown airline with a great product. On the other hand, AA pushing its codeshare on JetBlue flights will probably materially help JetBlue's yield on those flights, because that's a segment of ff who likely do not normally look for JetBlue options on their flights due to lack of ff benefits.

AA has tried quite a few routes out of JFK pre-COVID that they had to give up on, because the economics simply didn't work out. I don't see why these new routes will be any different. Vasu is the same guy who talked about how they focus on business markets like JFK to SEA and then canceled that route 2 years later when the performance fell off the cliff.

Airlines are adding routes out of NYC to search out any demand that might exist. They are not doing it because they are in a position of strength.
 
Seat1D
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:23 pm

Who thought this NEA would be a good idea?

2020 on time stats are out. AA and B6 are the worst of the worst. During a time when flights were cut to historic lows, AA and B6 continue the struggle.

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... sportation
 
JoseSalazar
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:45 pm

Seat1D wrote:
Who thought this NEA would be a good idea?

2020 on time stats are out. AA and B6 are the worst of the worst. During a time when flights were cut to historic lows, AA and B6 continue the struggle.

https://www.boston.com/travel/travel/20 ... sportation

Cool. Keep enjoying your on time delta flights then.
 
dca1
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:27 pm

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-j ... 1618423182

Any ideas on what the plan would be for AA/B6 if the current administration walks back the approval of this alliance?
 
asuflyer
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:25 pm

The Justice Department has stepped up an antitrust probe of AA and B6's recent partnership according to the WSJ, due to NK's repeated protests. They are looking mainly at coordination in the Northeast BOS, NYC hubs. NK in recent weeks has been lodging complaints to the DOJ about B6 and AA aligning frequencies to Ecuador as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-j ... re_twitter
 
Runway765
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:42 pm

asuflyer wrote:
The Justice Department has stepped up an antitrust probe of AA and B6's recent partnership according to the WSJ, due to NK's repeated protests. They are looking mainly at coordination in the Northeast BOS, NYC hubs. NK in recent weeks has been lodging complaints to the DOJ about B6 and AA aligning frequencies to Ecuador as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-j ... re_twitter


Not totally surprising. There does seems to be a fair amount of overlap in this partnership. If AA wants a bigger NYC presence, it should build it on its own and not piggyback off B6.
 
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STT757
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:52 pm

Runway765 wrote:
asuflyer wrote:
The Justice Department has stepped up an antitrust probe of AA and B6's recent partnership according to the WSJ, due to NK's repeated protests. They are looking mainly at coordination in the Northeast BOS, NYC hubs. NK in recent weeks has been lodging complaints to the DOJ about B6 and AA aligning frequencies to Ecuador as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-j ... re_twitter


Not totally surprising. There does seems to be a fair amount of overlap in this partnership. If AA wants a bigger NYC presence, it should build it on its own and not piggyback off B6.


They might have to give up gates and slots to get the deal approved.
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AAguy1992
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:34 pm

[twoid][/twoid]
dca1 wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-jetblue-alliance-draws-increased-scrutiny-from-justice-department-11618423182

Any ideas on what the plan would be for AA/B6 if the current administration walks back the approval of this alliance?


Looks as though Delta is getting pissy, they don't know what to do when they have to compete. I stick by that statement. The current White House and Delta are BFF's,
AAGuy 1992 :D
 
Abeam79
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:38 pm

asuflyer wrote:
The Justice Department has stepped up an antitrust probe of AA and B6's recent partnership according to the WSJ, due to NK's repeated protests. They are looking mainly at coordination in the Northeast BOS, NYC hubs. NK in recent weeks has been lodging complaints to the DOJ about B6 and AA aligning frequencies to Ecuador as well.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-j ... re_twitter


Hold the phone! something doesn't smell right. They went under a long 9 month review from the prior administration, so say it went through a hurried process is quite an overstatement. The only airline really making a complaint here is NK. DL/UA who are mostly affected by this haven't, which I am sure they would be loud and clear if they saw something not add up. NK complaints are cheap and low with merit. They are complaining about what exactly? If they wanted to build a better presence in the northeast to be competitive, then why didn't get gates at BOS/EWR when they were more available? Why are they scaling back the added routes there? Seems like they just want more resources on the cheap. If they are truly a lower cost alternative and compete with low fares, then put up your resources in the region and compete like everyone else when you should've have.
Seems like they may limit some routes if anything to codeshare if anything. I doubt much will come of it.
 
Detroit313
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:40 pm

Desperation by Spirit and others. Delta and United are still very large in the NY area even if you combine AA and Jetblue. If you look at just LGA and JFK, Delta is the one who's too big. They have like 44% of LGA slots and are No1 at JFK too.

The partnership increases competition internationally and domestically in routes where Delta has a total monopoly.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:45 pm

I think this was launched in part because NK will keep complaining until the new DOJ makes a ruling. NK here really just wants more slot divestiture at LGA. It's possible that will be asked. B6 will be busy on the phone with Schumer reminding him of how quickly they've restored service to NY area and brought competition to new markets. I anticipate more route announcements coming.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:04 pm

tphuang wrote:
I think this was launched in part because NK will keep complaining until the new DOJ makes a ruling. NK here really just wants more slot divestiture at LGA. It's possible that will be asked. B6 will be busy on the phone with Schumer reminding him of how quickly they've restored service to NY area and brought competition to new markets. I anticipate more route announcements coming.


Exactly, this smells like an attempt at an LGA slot grab by way of a divesture. Isn’t AA+B6 still going to be smaller than DL at LGA? If so it seems fairly unreasonable to force them to divest slots, especially as this is a codeshare and not a revenue sharing joint venture.

As for calling in a political favor with Schumer, hasn’t they added more at EWR recently than JFK? Might not play too well to be growing west of the Hudson, although no doubt B6 have been good for New York overall and Schumer has always been a cheerleader for them ever since their first flight.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
surfdog75
Posts: 275
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:42 pm

AAguy1992 wrote:
[twoid][/twoid]
dca1 wrote:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-jetblue-alliance-draws-increased-scrutiny-from-justice-department-11618423182

Any ideas on what the plan would be for AA/B6 if the current administration walks back the approval of this alliance?


Looks as though Delta is getting pissy, they don't know what to do when they have to compete. I stick by that statement. The current White House and Delta are BFF's,


Not quite. Delta competing effectively is what's forced AA to try a partnership with a competitor.
 
Abeam79
Posts: 386
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Re: AA & B6 announce Northeast Partnership

Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:46 pm

I have a feeling nothing will really come out of this

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