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amcnd
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:13 pm

As from a pilot prospective having Flown both ERJ145/135/140 and the CRJ200/700/900. I miss Hand flying the ERJ. Autopilot off.. landings were easier.. was fun. Hated the small noisy cockpit, Crapy radar,And doesn't feel as sturdy as the CRJ...
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:16 pm

Woodreau wrote:
On an Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, the knobs on the flight control panel correspond to the glass panel - airspeed tape is on the left side of the PFD, heading is in the bottom center of the PFD and altitude is on the right side of the PFD. On the flight control panel, the left knob controls airspeed, the middle knob control heading, and the right knob selects altitude.

On an Embraer, (135/145 175/195) They swapped the airspeed knob and heading knob - so heading is the left knob, airspeed is the middle knob and altitude is the right knob. So when these Embraer pilots move on to the next airplane and fly a Boeing or an Airbus, they have to unlearn the Embraer FCU. 95% of the time these pilots are okay, but when things get busy and things start getting hectic in a critical phase of flight, the ex-Embraer pilots flying an airbus/boeing will grab the wrong knob and grab the airspeed knob when they meant to turn the heading knob. or vice versa. It happens often, and when it happens, you do CRM and point out the deviation, they go oh oops. and it gets fixed.

Now that was my single biggest gripe with the ERJ cockpit. Just an absolutely daft choice with zero logic or reason.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:13 pm

I had no idea they were still in production!

As a passenger, I always loved flying the ERJ series over the CRJ. Loved that single seat on the left side, and I always felt that the seats were a tad bit wider than on the CRJ. The lavatory seems a bit more spacious as well over the CRJ.

However, I hate the overhead bins on the plane, and I find the cabin uncomfortably small. At 6ft3in I have to crouch down when boarding and whilst walking up/down the aisles. The plane seems less "sturdy" than the CRJ during the critical phases of the flight, and I find that the CRJ handles turbulence a hell of a lot better.
RJ85, F70, E135, E140, E145, E70, E75, E90, CR2, CR7, CR9, 717, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 744ER, 752, 753, 762, 772, 77E, 77W, 789, 319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343, 359, 388
 
GSOtoIND
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:02 pm

phllax wrote:
Was there a point they made them with only the “Airbus” type plug door, or did they offer the fold down door with steps as well throughout production?

It was a mix between the two. Based on the pictures I just searched for, ExpressJet, American Eagle, and Mesa went for the side-opening doors, while Chautauqua (excluding the 140s, which had side-opening doors) and Waterski chose the airstair ones. I'd imagine the downwards-opening doors were on the vast majority of the bizjets.
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Aesma
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:20 pm

I didn't think they were still made. Then I see you mention the last "650E". So when was the last E145/140/135, a true RJ, made ?
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:21 pm

Woodreau wrote:
I extremely disliked the Embraer as a pilot.
It's avionics were an afterthought. The FMS boxes didn't even talk to each other. To go direct. it required both crewmembers to press Direct To on their own respective box. I just never bothered entering Direct To if I was Pilot Monitoring. The Pilot Flying's box is going direct to, mine is going somewhere else.
There is a lot of negative learning that takes place when a new regional airline pilot starts out on an Embraer that they have to unlearn when they move to an Airbus or Boeing. You have to bypass a safety guards to do normal functions, like start an engine or start an APU. Now you have a generation of Embraer pilots who have no qualms about lifting a safety guard and activating it. Lifting a safety guard is supposed to be a rare event that forces you to think about - hey do you really want to do that?
On an Airbus, Boeing, Bombardier, the knobs on the flight control panel correspond to the glass panel - airspeed tape is on the left side of the PFD, heading is in the bottom center of the PFD and altitude is on the right side of the PFD. On the flight control panel, the left knob controls airspeed, the middle knob control heading, and the right knob selects altitude.
On an Embraer, (135/145 175/195) They swapped the airspeed knob and heading knob - so heading is the left knob, airspeed is the middle knob and altitude is the right knob. So when these Embraer pilots move on to the next airplane and fly a Boeing or an Airbus, they have to unlearn the Embraer FCU. 95% of the time these pilots are okay, but when things get busy and things start getting hectic in a critical phase of flight, the ex-Embraer pilots flying an airbus/boeing will grab the wrong knob and grab the airspeed knob when they meant to turn the heading knob. or vice versa. It happens often, and when it happens, you do CRM and point out the deviation, they go oh oops. and it gets fixed.
Every system on the airplane is manual - bleed management, fuel management, DC power management, except for anti-ice. the only system where you don't want automatic operation - anti-ice - is automatic. It would be nice if it's the other way around, everything automatic except for anti-ice.
We called ERJ-135/145s mobile flying roadblocks, because they fly so slow, and we get slowed down to not overtake an Embraer flying at M.72 or climbing out at M.56.
For some reason the airplane is incapable of flying faster than 250kts at 10,000ft. It's always saying "Hi Steve" when you're flying 249kts at 10,000ft.
For some reason, air traffic controllers always wait until you're 1000 ft from level off to issue an instruction - invariably that's when the Embraer altitude alerter is going off in your headset or drowns out the cockpit loudspeaker and it's extremely loud - "ack - ack - ack" . and you just miss the controller's instruction - it's always - say again?
About the only thing I liked about the Embraer is the AHRS unit - no flux gate magentometers (boo- CRJ), the push to talk switch on the outboard glareshield, and the absence of any modern navigation system on the airplane.


From the point of view of an Embraer test pilot for 45 years and who flew and helped certify practically all models designed and produced by the company with national and international authorities, we appreciate and respect you for your comments and opinion.

However it would be advisable if you remain to fly the ERJ family to continue your studies and refer to the aircraft AOM and AFM since some of your references are technically incorrect.

And yes, there are imperfections.
But not everything is perfect and, over time and in new projects, what was good was improved and what was not neglected.

One of Embraer's greatest engineering attributes is its constant meetings with operators to hear their respective feedback and proposals for improving their products.
And one of the company's strengths is its after sales.

Once again, thank you for your opinion, which we indeed respect !!!
Keep safe and best regards ...
 
BC77008
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:05 pm

on February 11, 1998 a Continental Express, now United Express, ERJ 145ER (N14931) crashed in Beaumont, Texas on takeoff during a training flight. NTSB reports that after the incorrect application of rudder during a V1 cut maneuver, the left wing stalled. The aircraft was damaged beyond repair."
---‐-------‐‐-----------------------------
Not all was lost with this particular frame, it eventually got towed to Houston sans wings and tail and has lived on for many years as a cabin trainer for flight attendants.
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:39 pm

Aesma wrote:
I didn't think they were still made. Then I see you mention the last "650E". So when was the last E145/140/135, a true RJ, made ?


Besides the ERJ-145 delivered to Intel for shuttle service (not an airline regular service, an ERJ-145XR, msn1186, delivered on November 2013 ), the last one produced was msn 1073,
an ERJ-145LI delivered to Tianjin Airlines as B-3095 in April 2011 and late for Africa World Airways as 9G-AFJ and still in operation.

The ever last ERJ was the msn 1451240, a model 1ERj-145EJ, delivered to Air Hamburg as D-DANCE on June 19, 2020 and the motivation for this topic and its tribute ...
 
Ionosphere
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:31 am

I was a Flight Attendant qualified on the ERJ-135/140/145. I liked the ERJ because the lav was wider than the CR2 and the galley provided more privacy. The longest ERJ flight I was on EWR-MCI.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:34 am

atcsundevil wrote:
As a controller, I'd rather work an E145 over a CRJ2 any day of the week.


Exact opposite for me.

Tell a CRJ to accelerate to 300 kts+ in climb, and it would do so in heartbeat, while still climbing at 2,000 or 3,000ft/min. Have you tried that with an ERJ ? It would need to almost level off to increase speed to anything greater than 250-270 kts. (and I work in Canada, where cold temperature is common, which helps aircraft performance ! Can’t imagine the performance of an ERJ out of PHX in 40C weather!)

At the terminal unit I used to work at, when I had a 767 climbing like a rocket 5 miles behind an ERJ, I was often forced to restrict the heavy to 250 kts in the climb (much to the dismay of the 767 pilots !) because of the lack of acceleration of the ERJ in front. Not so if the leading aircraft was a CRJ.

At my current tower unit, in winter, it happens quite often that an ERJ gets to the holding bay of my departure runway and needs to wait several minutes for the engine temp to climb, after getting de-iced. Never had such issues with a CRJ.

Also, the CRJ has a higher cruise speed and a higher service ceiling. Options that come in handy for a controller !

CRJ over an ERJ, any day of the week ! Unless you like your planes low and slow !
Last edited by Thenoflyzone on Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:02 am, edited 8 times in total.
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Antarius
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:53 am

D-ANCE

Bravo. Well done.
2020: SFO DFW IAH HOU CLT MEX BIS MIA GUA ORD DTW LGA BOS LHR DUB BFS BHD STN OAK PHL ISP JFK SJC DEN SJU LAS TXL GDL
 
Alias1024
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:35 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
As a controller, I'd rather work an E145 over a CRJ2 any day of the week.


Exact opposite for me.

Tell a CRJ to accelerate to 300 kts+ in climb, and it would do so in heartbeat, while still climbing at 2,000 or 3,000ft/min. Have you tried that with an ERJ ? It would need to almost level off to increase speed to anything greater than 250-270 kts. (and I work in Canada, where cold temperature is common, which helps aircraft performance ! Can’t imagine the performance of an ERJ out of PHX in 40C weather!)

At the terminal unit I used to work at, when I had a 767 climbing like a rocket 5 miles behind an ERJ, I was often forced to restrict the heavy to 250 kts in the climb (much to the dismay of the 767 pilots !) because of the lack of acceleration of the ERJ in front. Not so if the leading aircraft was a CRJ.

At my current tower unit, in winter, it happens quite often that an ERJ gets to the holding bay of my departure runway and needs to wait several minutes for the engine temp to climb, after getting de-iced. Never had such issues with a CRJ.

Also, the CRJ has a higher cruise speed and a higher service ceiling. Options that come in handy for a controller !

CRJ over an ERJ, any day of the week ! Unless you like your planes low and slow !


The larger CRJs are decent performers, but not the 50 seat models that competed with the E145. It’s nicknamed the Climb Restricted Jet for a reason. There’s no way a CRJ-100/200 would do 300 knots and sustained 2,000+ fpm climb without a few booster rockets slung under the wings.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
 
iceberg210
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 1:46 pm

Sorry to hear production ended but the ERJ will leave quite a legacy and turned into an amazing success. Did they call off production because the legacy frame was no longer selling or? I'd always hoped they'd restart a prop version of the 145, (ie the early engine on the wing design) and or an updated ERJ engine.
Great plane, enjoyed getting to fly on them.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 2:33 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
As a controller, I'd rather work an E145 over a CRJ2 any day of the week.


Exact opposite for me.

Tell a CRJ to accelerate to 300 kts+ in climb, and it would do so in heartbeat, while still climbing at 2,000 or 3,000ft/min. Have you tried that with an ERJ ? It would need to almost level off to increase speed to anything greater than 250-270 kts. (and I work in Canada, where cold temperature is common, which helps aircraft performance ! Can’t imagine the performance of an ERJ out of PHX in 40C weather!)

At the terminal unit I used to work at, when I had a 767 climbing like a rocket 5 miles behind an ERJ, I was often forced to restrict the heavy to 250 kts in the climb (much to the dismay of the 767 pilots !) because of the lack of acceleration of the ERJ in front. Not so if the leading aircraft was a CRJ.

At my current tower unit, in winter, it happens quite often that an ERJ gets to the holding bay of my departure runway and needs to wait several minutes for the engine temp to climb, after getting de-iced. Never had such issues with a CRJ.

Also, the CRJ has a higher cruise speed and a higher service ceiling. Options that come in handy for a controller !

CRJ over an ERJ, any day of the week ! Unless you like your planes low and slow !

A CRJ2?! A 7 or 9 sure, but never a 2. If you're getting that from 200s, then those must be some very special 200s. I'm in a center, so if you work tower that might explain the discrepancy. In the summer, we're lucky if we can get 500fpm climb from them at 250K. The E145 isn't a superstar or anything, but I've typically found them to have pretty respectable performance. Not the E135, but there aren't many of those around anymore.
 
bigb
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:00 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
As a controller, I'd rather work an E145 over a CRJ2 any day of the week.


Exact opposite for me.

Tell a CRJ to accelerate to 300 kts+ in climb, and it would do so in heartbeat, while still climbing at 2,000 or 3,000ft/min. Have you tried that with an ERJ ? It would need to almost level off to increase speed to anything greater than 250-270 kts. (and I work in Canada, where cold temperature is common, which helps aircraft performance ! Can’t imagine the performance of an ERJ out of PHX in 40C weather!)

At the terminal unit I used to work at, when I had a 767 climbing like a rocket 5 miles behind an ERJ, I was often forced to restrict the heavy to 250 kts in the climb (much to the dismay of the 767 pilots !) because of the lack of acceleration of the ERJ in front. Not so if the leading aircraft was a CRJ.

At my current tower unit, in winter, it happens quite often that an ERJ gets to the holding bay of my departure runway and needs to wait several minutes for the engine temp to climb, after getting de-iced. Never had such issues with a CRJ.

Also, the CRJ has a higher cruise speed and a higher service ceiling. Options that come in handy for a controller !

CRJ over an ERJ, any day of the week ! Unless you like your planes low and slow !


I wish a CR2 could have climb at 300kts. It’s climb or speed with that plane. Pick one because we can give you both lol.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:58 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
A CRJ2?! A 7 or 9 sure, but never a 2.


Yup, a CRJ2. I know AC Express has a lot of CRJ200LRs, so those are the ones I'm talking about specifically, and I'm comparing it to the ERJ's we see regularly up here. (E135/140/145)

Let me put it this way.....

Assign 280kts or faster to a CRJ200 and an ERJ as soon as they are airborne, and the CRJ will climb faster. Sure, once they get up above 10,000 ft, climb rates go down for both frames, but in a terminal environment, there is a noticeable difference on performance. Maybe it's just the way Jazz pilots flew the CRJ vs how UA/DL/AA Express flew the ERJs. but there was a noticeable difference in terms of performance every time.

I’ve worked center, approach control, and now tower. I have seen and worked these planes in different scenarios. The CRJ200 outperformed the ERJs any day of the week. Sure, I guess the E145 has better performance than the E135/140, but it definitely wasn't any better than a CRJ200. Close, sure. Better, no way.

bigb wrote:

I wish a CR2 could have climb at 300kts. It’s climb or speed with that plane. Pick one because we can give you both lol.


Of course it can't keep that speed until cruise. I'm talking more specifically about the initial climb segment, up to about 10,000-15,000ft. At those altitudes, it can do 300 kts and climb very well, better than a E145. Once above 15,000ft, sure, it would need to reduce climb rate to keep 300 kts, but it would still outperform an E145 any day of the week.
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Thenoflyzone
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:35 pm

.....i think it boils down to engine performance more than anything else. The GE's on the CRJs must be more performant than the RRs on the ERJs.

The specs speak for themselves. The higher service ceiling on the CRJ, the higher cruise speed. The de-icing engine temp issues on the RRs that I mentioned before. These all point to a lack of performance on the ERJ's vs the CRJ.

Maybe that's why Embraer went with the GE as well for the E170/175/190/195.
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 4:52 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
A CRJ2?! A 7 or 9 sure, but never a 2.


Yup, a CRJ2. I know AC Express has a lot of CRJ200LRs, so those are the ones I'm talking about specifically, and I'm comparing it to the ERJ's we see regularly up here. (E135/140/145)

Let me put it this way.....

Assign 280kts or faster to a CRJ200 and an ERJ as soon as they are airborne, and the CRJ will climb faster. Sure, once they get up above 10,000 ft, climb rates go down for both frames, but in a terminal environment, there is a noticeable difference on performance. Maybe it's just the way Jazz pilots flew the CRJ vs how UA/DL/AA Express flew the ERJs. but there was a noticeable difference in terms of performance every time.

I’ve worked center, approach control, and now tower. I have seen and worked these planes in different scenarios. The CRJ200 outperformed the ERJs any day of the week. Sure, I guess the E145 has better performance than the E135/140, but it definitely wasn't any better than a CRJ200. Close, sure. Better, no way.

bigb wrote:

I wish a CR2 could have climb at 300kts. It’s climb or speed with that plane. Pick one because we can give you both lol.


Of course it can't keep that speed until cruise. I'm talking more specifically about the initial climb segment, up to about 10,000-15,000ft. At those altitudes, it can do 300 kts and climb very well, better than a E145. Once above 15,000ft, sure, it would need to reduce climb rate to keep 300 kts, but it would still outperform an E145 any day of the week.

Then we clearly have had drastically different experiences. The CRJ1/2 are notorious for being underpowered pieces of crap in the summer, especially when the temps and humidity creep up. This is the first time I can recall anyone ever saying otherwise. Around this time of year, I'll regularly cap them in the mid 20s because their climb rate will be so abysmal above that that they'll never reach their flight planned altitude. Only the A321 sucks that much, and even if performs much better. I've certainly never had that issue with a 145.
 
Thenoflyzone
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:27 pm

Well I’ll tell you what. You can’t assign anything higher than FL370 or anything faster than M.78 to an ERJ (only exception is the E145XR, which can go up to M.80).

You can go as high as FL410 and M.81 for ALL CRJ100/200s.

And were in peak summer now, and on FR24 I’m showing several CRJ2s in the southern US at FL320 at the moment.
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MSNfan
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:55 pm

Always thought they were slick looking planes and LOVED the window size vs. the CRJ-200. I flew a bunch of them around the midwest on Frontier Express during my dental school interview period back when they had a presence in MKE. Congrats on a good run!
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departedflights
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:01 pm

I thought some of you might enjoy this Continental Express brochure from 1997 promoting their newest aircraft....

Image
The opinions are expressed are my own and do not represent those of anyone else, including my coworkers or my employer.
 
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Crosswind
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 pm

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Well I’ll tell you what. You can’t assign anything higher than FL370 or anything faster than M.78 to an ERJ (only exception is the E145XR, which can go up to M.80).

You can go as high as FL410 and M.81 for ALL CRJ100/200s.

And were in peak summer now, and on FR24 I’m showing several CRJ2s in the southern US at FL320 at the moment.


Are you saying CR2s are routinely cruising at FL410? I’d be very surprised.... there was a famous crash of Mesaba Airlines aircraft on an empty ferry that went up to FL410 despite being too heavy to do so. Also the temperature on the ground often doesn’t have a bearing in ISA deviation temperature in the cruise, so warm on the ground doesn’t directly translate into a high ISA deviation at FL320.

The Legacy 600/650 version is also certified to FL410... will just show as standard E135 on the FPL.

Thenoflyzone wrote:
.....i think it boils down to engine performance more than anything else. The GE's on the CRJs must be more performant than the RRs on the ERJs.

The specs speak for themselves. The higher service ceiling on the CRJ, the higher cruise speed. The de-icing engine temp issues on the RRs that I mentioned before. These all point to a lack of performance on the ERJ's vs the CRJ.

Maybe that's why Embraer went with the GE as well for the E170/175/190/195.


There isn’t an engine temp issue with the RR AE3700 engines. Standard warmup time is 2 min, or 4 min for a completely cold engine. This is taken care of in the taxi time at all but the tiniest airport. The slight delay for the E135-145 getting airborne in actual icing conditions is the requirement to perform an “Anti-Ice Assurance Check” before departure. Basically a short run up where all the anti-ice valves are electrically commanded open to make sure the system functions correctly. Nothing to do with the engines except they supply the bleed air to the anti-ice system, but the check is of the latter rather than the former.
 
brilondon
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 10:26 pm

AABusDrvr wrote:
EMBSPBR wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
Am I the only one that remembers when they were called the EMB-145 Amazon?


Or nicknamed "the jungle jet" ...



There were several, much less complementary nicknames used by the crews that flew them at my old airline.

In the back it was a nicer experience than the CRJ-200, but with over 5000 hours flying the ERJ series, I'm hard pressed to find something good to say about them. I don't miss them at all.

Those planes were so cramped. I had to endure a 4.5 hour flight on one of those sardine cans from YYZ-IAH. I will never for get that flight. I won't miss them for a second.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:16 pm

My favorite ERJ...
ERJ-135 Shuttle..... 5 manufactured for Indigo for service out of Teteboro.... 2 delivered to them. 1 sold, 2 converted to 37pax.... one of those converted back to shuttle.

So, all in all, 4 ERJ-135 16pax Shuttles flew for someone.... (Brazilian Airforce/Private Corporations).

Now that the last 650Legacy has been delivered.... There goes my hope of a fleet of ERJ-135 Shuttles w/ Winglets and the 145XR aero improvements. One can dream..
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:45 pm

From my personal archives:

Image
American Airlines New Regional Jet Services.

ImageImage

Image
Continental Airlines welcome to ERJ-135 !

Image
1000th. ERJ family: delivered on September 28, 2007 to Grand China Express from Harbin factory.
 
bigb
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:23 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
A CRJ2?! A 7 or 9 sure, but never a 2.


Yup, a CRJ2. I know AC Express has a lot of CRJ200LRs, so those are the ones I'm talking about specifically, and I'm comparing it to the ERJ's we see regularly up here. (E135/140/145)

Let me put it this way.....

Assign 280kts or faster to a CRJ200 and an ERJ as soon as they are airborne, and the CRJ will climb faster. Sure, once they get up above 10,000 ft, climb rates go down for both frames, but in a terminal environment, there is a noticeable difference on performance. Maybe it's just the way Jazz pilots flew the CRJ vs how UA/DL/AA Express flew the ERJs. but there was a noticeable difference in terms of performance every time.

I’ve worked center, approach control, and now tower. I have seen and worked these planes in different scenarios. The CRJ200 outperformed the ERJs any day of the week. Sure, I guess the E145 has better performance than the E135/140, but it definitely wasn't any better than a CRJ200. Close, sure. Better, no way.

bigb wrote:

I wish a CR2 could have climb at 300kts. It’s climb or speed with that plane. Pick one because we can give you both lol.


Of course it can't keep that speed until cruise. I'm talking more specifically about the initial climb segment, up to about 10,000-15,000ft. At those altitudes, it can do 300 kts and climb very well, better than a E145. Once above 15,000ft, sure, it would need to reduce climb rate to keep 300 kts, but it would still outperform an E145 any day of the week.


Uh negative, I can speak from experience as I fly the CR2/7/9 have over 2k hours in the in 3 variants. The CR2, will not climb well while flying fast. Maybe up to like 5k it will do okay depending on how heavy and outside air conditions.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:26 am

Crosswind wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
Well I’ll tell you what. You can’t assign anything higher than FL370 or anything faster than M.78 to an ERJ (only exception is the E145XR, which can go up to M.80).

You can go as high as FL410 and M.81 for ALL CRJ100/200s.

And were in peak summer now, and on FR24 I’m showing several CRJ2s in the southern US at FL320 at the moment.


Are you saying CR2s are routinely cruising at FL410? I’d be very surprised.... there was a famous crash of Mesaba Airlines aircraft on an empty ferry that went up to FL410 despite being too heavy to do so. Also the temperature on the ground often doesn’t have a bearing in ISA deviation temperature in the cruise, so warm on the ground doesn’t directly translate into a high ISA deviation at FL320.

The Legacy 600/650 version is also certified to FL410... will just show as standard E135 on the FPL.


The CR2 crash from FL410 was not Mesaba, but Pinnacle (same company now, but they were different then). Most, if not all, US CR2 carriers are limited to FL370 in the CR2 these days. It's not super common to get up there, but it can be done. I wouldn't want to try to limp the things up to FL410, as there really aren't any flights long enough in the country to do it on.

And also, for what it's worth, the CR2 is good for Mach .84, but it's rarely going to do better than about .78 at any altitude, unless it's well below ISA.
From my cold, dead hands
 
bigb
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:40 am

Thenoflyzone wrote:
Well I’ll tell you what. You can’t assign anything higher than FL370 or anything faster than M.78 to an ERJ (only exception is the E145XR, which can go up to M.80).

You can go as high as FL410 and M.81 for ALL CRJ100/200s.

And were in peak summer now, and on FR24 I’m showing several CRJ2s in the southern US at FL320 at the moment.


Negative again, you will not see a CR2 that high, since their limitations cap them at FL370. I’ve gotten it up to FL350 once between JAX-DCA. But I had like 20 folks onboard, and it was a cold day.
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 2:58 am

bigb wrote:
Thenoflyzone wrote:
Well I’ll tell you what. You can’t assign anything higher than FL370 or anything faster than M.78 to an ERJ (only exception is the E145XR, which can go up to M.80).

You can go as high as FL410 and M.81 for ALL CRJ100/200s.

And were in peak summer now, and on FR24 I’m showing several CRJ2s in the southern US at FL320 at the moment.


Negative again, you will not see a CR2 that high, since their limitations cap them at FL370. I’ve gotten it up to FL350 once between JAX-DCA. But I had like 20 folks onboard, and it was a cold day.

That jives with my experience. I can usually squeeze a little more Mach out of a CRJ2 versus an E145 (although it's pretty much negligible), but obviously that's at cruise. It's the climb performance that separates the two, particularly through the 20s. The CRJ1/2 will struggle hard while the E145 can usually keep a pretty good rate. No issues with the CRJ7/9 — they can keep up almost as well as anyone. Maybe the 1s and 2s were better when they were newer, but I have come to expect very little from them, especially in my typically warm and steamy airspace.

I also didn't mean to imply that the CRJ2 couldn't climb higher than the 20s, just that I usually give up watching them try to peddle up to the low 30s when I'm just going to have to start them right back down. Like I said before, the E145 isn't necessarily a superstar, but I've always found them to be the more reliable performer among 50 seaters.
 
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ssteve
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:13 am

Earlier list of incidents for ERJ is missing Presque Isle. Maybe I should go add it to Wikipedia.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:08 pm

From my personal archive:

Image
Official debut of first ERJ-145 built.


Image
Prototype of first ERJ-135.


Image
800th. ERJ-145, N568RP, delivered to Delta Connection (Chautauqua Airlines) in May, 2004
and painted in "800th ERJ" special colours from 2004 untill 2011.
 
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EMBSPBR
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:40 pm

FiscAutTecGarte wrote:
My favorite ERJ...
ERJ-135 Shuttle..... 5 manufactured for Indigo for service out of Teteboro.... 2 delivered to them. 1 sold, 2 converted to 37pax.... one of those converted back to shuttle.
So, all in all, 4 ERJ-135 16pax Shuttles flew for someone.... (Brazilian Airforce/Private Corporations).
Now that the last 650Legacy has been delivered.... There goes my hope of a fleet of ERJ-135 Shuttles w/ Winglets and the 145XR aero improvements. One can dream..


From my personal archive:

Image
Image
ERJ Shuttle.
 
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FiscAutTecGarte
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Wed Jul 22, 2020 8:11 pm

EMBSPBR wrote:
From my personal archive:

Image

Image
ERJ Shuttle.


Thanks for sharing those!!
learning never stops...

FischAutoTechGarten is the full handle and it reflects my interest. It's abbreviated to fit A.net short usernames.
 
SpectralK
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:34 pm

CMIIW, but it seems now that the only 50 seaters in production are turboprops. For operators with large ERJ/CRJ fleets like Skywest, what will they do when their planes need to be replaced? It seems like the only options right now are to either revisit ATRs and DHC-8s, or just upscale to 70 seaters and leave smaller markets behind.
 
LightChop2Chop
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Re: Last ERJ - Embraer Regional Jet Delivered: a end of an era and the history behind it !

Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:25 pm

Didn't a notable controller at IAH ATC dub them "pencil jet"?

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