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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:50 am

Lpbri wrote:
Now there are no RR powered airplanes left in its active fleet.


The 747-400ERs had GE engines....the last RR powered aircraft was retired October 13, 2019 (VH-OJU, now owned by RR and registered N747RR).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:53 am

So sad, I’ve have many many fond memories flying these birds between MEL-LAX amongst other routes. Always something so special boarding a longhaul 747 flight, too you back a little to the glamour days of flying.

I also was lucky enough as a kid to fly on the SP - oddly on the 90s may have been CNS-HNL? Or SYD-PPT can’t recall. I do recall the SP has an unusual galley that ran down the length of the aircraft - does anyone have any photos of that?
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:01 am

End of an era, certainly one of the most iconic airline/aircraft pairings to grace the skies. I was fortunate enough to fly on OEJ whilst it was painted up as "Wunala" in 2006 when I was 10. That trip helped energize my passion for aviation and it feels full circle to watch it depart for the desert now that I've grown up and began a career of flight.
 
FGITD
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:01 am

UA748i wrote:
Vio wrote:
It's a sad day for the 747, but inevitable.

I don't want to seem like the guy who's complaining, but as an airline worker, I have given this a thought. I tried to imagine how much it would cost Qantas to do this publicity stunt.

Of course, I came up with these numbers by searching on the internet a few facts. I don’t fly a 747 and I’m not 100% sure on how much Qantas pays for each liter (or gallon) of fuel. There are obviously other factors involved here (speed, altitude, weather conditions, etc)

I just assumed “normal burn” for the entire time. I couldn’t find the price per liter that Qantas pays for Jet A, but in a “quarterly report”, made public by Air Canada, they expect to pay between $0.71 to $0.74 Canadian Dollars per LITER of Jet A. Canadian / Australian Dollar are somewhat on par, so I’ll use the same number.

Keeping all those uncertain factors in mind:
- Based on FR24 (Flight Radar 24) It took the flight roughly 2.5 hours from the moment it departed, until the flight completed the “display” and started to continue its trans-Pacific flight. I would imagine 0.5 hours was enough to get to the Start point, so let’s assume it took 2 hours to draw the whole “kangaroo diversion”. The rest would’ve been part of their flight plan anyway.
- The 747 burns 4 liters of Jet A per second. That’s 240 liters per minute, 14,400L per hour (747 or widebody pilots, please feel free to provide more accurate numbers).
- 2 hours would burn about 28,000 liters of Jet A.
- Assuming Qantas pays around $0.70 AUD per liter of Jet A, that would be a cost of $19, 600
IT COST QANTAS, ROUGHLY $20,000 AUD to do this stunt.

Normally, I wouldn’t say much about this, however given the crisis going on in the world today, workers being laid off, their benefits cut, the airlines asking for bailouts, it’s a little hard to swallow these “pills”. Even if it’s a drop in the bucket, in the grand scheme of things, every dollar count.

Again, my numbers may be way off, but no matter how you look at it, flying a 747 for an extra 2 hours is not cheap. How will you tell a ramp agent that their health benefits are being cut because “every penny counts”, yet you burn $20,000 to do a stunt that VERY FEW people see and understand. An airport / city flyover would've been sufficient. It’s not okay in my opinion, to literally burn money this way; not during the worst crisis the aviation world has ever seen.


Dont take this the wrong way, but this is very much besides the point. Its not like it'll happen again.

A very sad day indeed. Yes, its an expensive move, but its a proper send off, and I think we can all agree that's all that matters at this point in time.


I'm sure the thousands of employees awaiting their notice that they're being laid off or furloughed will take a deep solace in the fact that the 747 getting a proper send off is what's important right now.

I get the significance, but an airplane is an airplane. It's not a sentient being, sad to be retired. In 2 days she'll be sitting in the desert as her parts get sold, and eventually cut up, and no one will care by that point.

It's not the actual cash value of the action that's significant. It's that the company asks the staff to make sacrifices all the way up to losing their careers because of financial problems...but then spends money to fly an empty airplane around for the TV and publicity. No one is rushing to buy a ticket because the airplane drew a big kangaroo in the sky (though be it, a very cool thing to do)

I'm sure KL would've loved to do a big ceremony for their beloved 747, or AF with the 380, or BA with the 747s...but now is simply not the time.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:19 am

FGITD wrote:
....
I'm sure KL would've loved to do a big ceremony for their beloved 747, or AF with the 380, or BA with the 747s...but now is simply not the time.


KLM still (sort-of) has time to do a ceremony, they have 3 744s running cargo runs...hoping that they might do some kind of small celebration when those are with-drawn for good at the end of October.

Air France had a special employee-only flight and met up with an undelivered Air France A359 for a photo op, so I guess that’s a celebration.

It seems that BA is the one to watch at the moment, only G-CIVB is at LHR, which rules out the possibility of a retro fly-over. I don’t think there’s a plan currently for a farewell, but they might throw together a quick farewell.

So I guess what the point is, is that although yes the farewells are costly and what not, most airlines are still (or could still) do them, and the just name/brand recognition also helps marketing as I mentioned earlier.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
FGITD
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:35 am

VCVSpotter wrote:
FGITD wrote:
....
I'm sure KL would've loved to do a big ceremony for their beloved 747, or AF with the 380, or BA with the 747s...but now is simply not the time.


KLM still (sort-of) has time to do a ceremony, they have 3 744s running cargo runs...hoping that they might do some kind of small celebration when those are with-drawn for good at the end of October.

Air France had a special employee-only flight and met up with an undelivered Air France A359 for a photo op, so I guess that’s a celebration.

It seems that BA is the one to watch at the moment, only G-CIVB is at LHR, which rules out the possibility of a retro fly-over. I don’t think there’s a plan currently for a farewell, but they might throw together a quick farewell.

So I guess what the point is, is that although yes the farewells are costly and what not, most airlines are still (or could still) do them, and the just name/brand recognition also helps marketing as I mentioned earlier.


Fair point, I had forgotten about the AF flight. But I still find it wasteful.

As for brand/name recognition, at a time where travel is universally at an all time low, I don't think it's really doing much for them. But I suppose as they say, no such thing as bad publicity.
 
airzona11
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:59 am

FGITD wrote:
UA748i wrote:
Vio wrote:
It's a sad day for the 747, but inevitable.

I don't want to seem like the guy who's complaining, but as an airline worker, I have given this a thought. I tried to imagine how much it would cost Qantas to do this publicity stunt.

Of course, I came up with these numbers by searching on the internet a few facts. I don’t fly a 747 and I’m not 100% sure on how much Qantas pays for each liter (or gallon) of fuel. There are obviously other factors involved here (speed, altitude, weather conditions, etc)

I just assumed “normal burn” for the entire time. I couldn’t find the price per liter that Qantas pays for Jet A, but in a “quarterly report”, made public by Air Canada, they expect to pay between $0.71 to $0.74 Canadian Dollars per LITER of Jet A. Canadian / Australian Dollar are somewhat on par, so I’ll use the same number.

Keeping all those uncertain factors in mind:
- Based on FR24 (Flight Radar 24) It took the flight roughly 2.5 hours from the moment it departed, until the flight completed the “display” and started to continue its trans-Pacific flight. I would imagine 0.5 hours was enough to get to the Start point, so let’s assume it took 2 hours to draw the whole “kangaroo diversion”. The rest would’ve been part of their flight plan anyway.
- The 747 burns 4 liters of Jet A per second. That’s 240 liters per minute, 14,400L per hour (747 or widebody pilots, please feel free to provide more accurate numbers).
- 2 hours would burn about 28,000 liters of Jet A.
- Assuming Qantas pays around $0.70 AUD per liter of Jet A, that would be a cost of $19, 600
IT COST QANTAS, ROUGHLY $20,000 AUD to do this stunt.

Normally, I wouldn’t say much about this, however given the crisis going on in the world today, workers being laid off, their benefits cut, the airlines asking for bailouts, it’s a little hard to swallow these “pills”. Even if it’s a drop in the bucket, in the grand scheme of things, every dollar count.

Again, my numbers may be way off, but no matter how you look at it, flying a 747 for an extra 2 hours is not cheap. How will you tell a ramp agent that their health benefits are being cut because “every penny counts”, yet you burn $20,000 to do a stunt that VERY FEW people see and understand. An airport / city flyover would've been sufficient. It’s not okay in my opinion, to literally burn money this way; not during the worst crisis the aviation world has ever seen.


Dont take this the wrong way, but this is very much besides the point. Its not like it'll happen again.

A very sad day indeed. Yes, its an expensive move, but its a proper send off, and I think we can all agree that's all that matters at this point in time.


I'm sure the thousands of employees awaiting their notice that they're being laid off or furloughed will take a deep solace in the fact that the 747 getting a proper send off is what's important right now.

I get the significance, but an airplane is an airplane. It's not a sentient being, sad to be retired. In 2 days she'll be sitting in the desert as her parts get sold, and eventually cut up, and no one will care by that point.

It's not the actual cash value of the action that's significant. It's that the company asks the staff to make sacrifices all the way up to losing their careers because of financial problems...but then spends money to fly an empty airplane around for the TV and publicity. No one is rushing to buy a ticket because the airplane drew a big kangaroo in the sky (though be it, a very cool thing to do)

I'm sure KL would've loved to do a big ceremony for their beloved 747, or AF with the 380, or BA with the 747s...but now is simply not the time.


The marketing and brand value and this opportunity were not wasted resources for Qantas. The 747 was part of the iconic QF brand.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:04 am

Boeing 747 of Qantas Airlines - an exceptional career of speed, safety, long range and beauty.

It does not get any better for airliner fans.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:13 am

Man, never flew QF but the QF 747s have been a mainstay as I have traveled to LAX and other US gateways.

Sad to see so many iconic workhorse aircraft get put down too early during the pandemic.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:13 am

airzona11 wrote:


The marketing and brand value and this opportunity were not wasted resources for Qantas. The 747 was part of the iconic QF brand.


Interestingly, from a branding perspective, they did not use the current version of the 'roo ( with the front paws amputated) , they used an old version. I by far prefer the old one, but I am surprised their brand people didn't have kittens over it ( or should that be 'joeys' ?)
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:26 am

Kiwiandrew wrote:
airzona11 wrote:


The marketing and brand value and this opportunity were not wasted resources for Qantas. The 747 was part of the iconic QF brand.


Interestingly, from a branding perspective, they did not use the current version of the 'roo ( with the front paws amputated) , they used an old version. I by far prefer the old one, but I am surprised their brand people didn't have kittens over it ( or should that be 'joeys' ?)


The 'roo flown was accurately for what is on OEJ.

I was out there, as were hundreds of other enthusiasts around the airport, vantage points around the city, along the coast and at the H.A.R.S. museum at Albion Park. There were lots of mixed emotions, but I will be forever grateful to QF for making the effort to send off the Queen with a proper farewell. The news coverage was extensive and while some may feel that there is waste involved with this, the extra cost for the deviations was more than covered in the publicity and goodwill the airline gained from the exercise. Well done Qantas.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:29 am

Sad

:worried:
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:32 am

I have fond memories of the QF747. It's the plane that brought me and my family to Australia in the 90s so in a way it was the first piece of Australian "soil" I stepped on.

IIRC, we flew FRA-BKK-SIN-MEL (I can't remember if it was both SE Asian stops, so if anyone can confirm). I also remember they were screening "Philadelphia" movie during the flight.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:40 am

The 747 was used in the inaugural Flights from SYD-DFW, until the A380's took over for the non-stop returns.
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:11 am

Anyone have any confirmation of the 11am Friday LAX-MHV flight?
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:32 am

sadde wrote:
Anyone have any confirmation of the 11am Friday LAX-MHV flight?


I got re-confirmation tonight from someone who works at the hangar.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:01 am

I was reading an article yesterday about the crew for this last flight and they had a captain on board with over 40 years on 747s; presumably this was his retirement flight. The operating captain had around 32 years behind her on the 747, which is a great achievement, but forty years is amazing.

That would mean that he joined QF just after the 707s retired, so would have started as an SO, then got into the right seat - still in his early 20s - and stayed on the quads even when the 767 was introduced. Allowing an annual flight time of about 450h, that could still have meant about 18,000h, though over 20,000h is quite possible. What a career!

I presume a significant number of captains retired with the retirement of the 747. (That probably applies to several airlines.)
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:45 am

Here is how the roo was plotted by flight planning

Image

https://twitter.com/keg767/status/12862 ... 53920?s=21
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:59 am

airzona11 wrote:

The marketing and brand value and this opportunity were not wasted resources for Qantas. The 747 was part of the iconic QF brand.


I suppose that angle does offer a justification: "Free marketing". I'm sure news outlets in Australia ran with this story.
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:09 am

Vio wrote:
I suppose that angle does offer a justification: "Free marketing". I'm sure news outlets in Australia ran with this story.


For the extra spend as someone said up thread, it has paid itself back in marketing easily. It was on the main BBC News web site as well, all over Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and so on. Definitely justified and I really don't think anyone is going to begrudge the airline the extra expense.

It can't be underestimated how much the Boeing 747 means to Australia (there's a reason two are preserved!). When you consider just how long it used to take to get anywhere from Australia before this aircraft came along, you can understand the love.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:23 am

My first flight on a QF 747 was to HKG, my last flight on QF 747 was to HND last year. Glad I had that final opportunity to travel on her.
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:36 am

ClassicLover wrote:
Vio wrote:
I suppose that angle does offer a justification: "Free marketing". I'm sure news outlets in Australia ran with this story.


For the extra spend as someone said up thread, it has paid itself back in marketing easily. It was on the main BBC News web site as well, all over Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and so on. Definitely justified and I really don't think anyone is going to begrudge the airline the extra expense.

It can't be underestimated how much the Boeing 747 means to Australia (there's a reason two are preserved!). When you consider just how long it used to take to get anywhere from Australia before this aircraft came along, you can understand the love.


Exactly! Relatively speaking for the cost of fuel it was a small cost for the marketing they get out of it, and free publicity over all the news sites and tv channels here and elsewhere. The Qantas 747s mean so much to Australians, this farewell gesture will resonate with the public for a long time to come, even if travel options are limited in the short term. I have lots of friends and family who generally aren't into aviation, but they all have an appreciation for what the Qantas 747s have done for Australia and connected us to the world over the years.

I have many friends at Qantas who have their jobs on the line, and not one of them feel cheated by Qantas doing this, not only was it a farewell the 747 deserved (albeit too soon), but it was a celebration many needed at the moment during such hard times, for something that means a lot to them and brought them together.
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:48 am

How close was QF from ordering the 748?
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:35 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
How close was QF from ordering the 748?


Nowhere near - they committed to the A380 four years before the 748i was even launched.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:47 pm

My one and only time on a 747 was on QF BNE-LAX a few years ago. With the way things are going I suspect that will turn out to be my only time on one.

That particular trip was also interesting in that it started off with me sleeping in my rental car in a grocery store parking lot right outside of AKL when I failed to book a hotel in time and found everything in the area to be booked up. Add in the pre-dawn AKL-BNE leg and I just tried to make the best of the situation until it was time to go to the airport.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:01 pm

What / when was the last Qantas regularly scheduled passenger flight originating out of Australia?
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 5:47 pm

VCVSpotter wrote:
sadde wrote:
Anyone have any confirmation of the 11am Friday LAX-MHV flight?


I got re-confirmation tonight from someone who works at the hangar.

Awesome thank you
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 6:03 pm

Amazingly saddened by this. I remember sitting at Lot C at LAX and being treated to the sight of a Qantas A380 flying low overhead, and I mean really low on late final, preceded by a Qantas 747 by just a few minutes. So, both big planes in the time it took to unload the luggage from the car and look for the bus. I was amazed by both, never having flown in anything larger than an A330 or DC-10.

Farewell, my Queen, you will be missed!
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 8:50 pm

Thanks for the post qf789, good read and some great pics, love the shot as she flies over Canberra
My first ride on the 747 was way back in 1974 when i came to Australia. route was LHR, FRA, BAH, KUL, SYD, MEL. My first trip on QF at the same time.
I miss those multi stops, but at the same time the technology change with the 744 was impressive and she will be missed.

AN767
ps thanks for using my pic, only time i have got a pic on anet :)
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:36 pm

I too am saddened by this, but I love the Kangaroo tribute.

May Wunala dream on forever.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:58 am

Vio wrote:
It's a sad day for the 747, but inevitable.

I don't want to seem like the guy who's complaining, but as an airline worker, I have given this a thought. I tried to imagine how much it would cost Qantas to do this publicity stunt.

Of course, I came up with these numbers by searching on the internet a few facts. I don’t fly a 747 and I’m not 100% sure on how much Qantas pays for each liter (or gallon) of fuel. There are obviously other factors involved here (speed, altitude, weather conditions, etc)

I just assumed “normal burn” for the entire time. I couldn’t find the price per liter that Qantas pays for Jet A, but in a “quarterly report”, made public by Air Canada, they expect to pay between $0.71 to $0.74 Canadian Dollars per LITER of Jet A. Canadian / Australian Dollar are somewhat on par, so I’ll use the same number.

Keeping all those uncertain factors in mind:
- Based on FR24 (Flight Radar 24) It took the flight roughly 2.5 hours from the moment it departed, until the flight completed the “display” and started to continue its trans-Pacific flight. I would imagine 0.5 hours was enough to get to the Start point, so let’s assume it took 2 hours to draw the whole “kangaroo diversion”. The rest would’ve been part of their flight plan anyway.
- The 747 burns 4 liters of Jet A per second. That’s 240 liters per minute, 14,400L per hour (747 or widebody pilots, please feel free to provide more accurate numbers).
- 2 hours would burn about 28,000 liters of Jet A.
- Assuming Qantas pays around $0.70 AUD per liter of Jet A, that would be a cost of $19, 600
IT COST QANTAS, ROUGHLY $20,000 AUD to do this stunt.

Normally, I wouldn’t say much about this, however given the crisis going on in the world today, workers being laid off, their benefits cut, the airlines asking for bailouts, it’s a little hard to swallow these “pills”. Even if it’s a drop in the bucket, in the grand scheme of things, every dollar count.

Again, my numbers may be way off, but no matter how you look at it, flying a 747 for an extra 2 hours is not cheap. How will you tell a ramp agent that their health benefits are being cut because “every penny counts”, yet you burn $20,000 to do a stunt that VERY FEW people see and understand. An airport / city flyover would've been sufficient. It’s not okay in my opinion, to literally burn money this way; not during the worst crisis the aviation world has ever seen.


As one of the 20,000 stood down QF employees and a current 787 Capt (so will be stood down for quite some time). If it did cost QF 20K for this then really, so what? Should they have given us all a $1 each? This is truly the end of an era for an aircraft that not only has been a major influence on QF (remember there was a time QF only flew 747's), but from a personal point of view I flew the 200/300/SP/400's over a 14 year period.

Given all the gloom and doom which seems to be persuasive currently it was fantastic what QF did, and would happy hand over my $1 for it.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:17 am

Vio wrote:
IT COST QANTAS, ROUGHLY $20,000 AUD to do this stunt.

Normally, I wouldn’t say much about this, however given the crisis going on in the world today, workers being laid off, their benefits cut, the airlines asking for bailouts, it’s a little hard to swallow these “pills”. Even if it’s a drop in the bucket, in the grand scheme of things, every dollar count.



As an accountant i would agree with the raw numbers being more cost than perhaps should be spent, however, as an economist, the intangible benefits from this are not insignificant. There is a marketing boost from this that is very hard to measure, the QF brand is super strong in Australia and this has done nothing but strengthened it no end, so many of us are talking about it. There is a morale boost to the staff that also cannot be measured and seeing QF treat the 744 this way helps people feel good about a company that is having to make hard decisions. And when it happened, as it was a surprise, the collective morale of the country (at least those that followed it) was big too. And we need that too given what is going on.

So yes, cash was spent, but was it wasted? No, I dont think it was.

And really, 20k is going to save maybe one part time baggage handler. So its not such a big deal really.
 
Gangurru
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:01 am

qf789 wrote:
In 1989 Qantas took delivery of its first 747-400. The 747-400 was a game changer as it would be the first aircraft that allowed both Qantas and British Airways to fly from Australia to the UK with only one stop.


Thanks for the great run down of the 747’s momentous contribution to QF. Great effort.

I hope you don’t mind me challenging your claim which I’ve quoted with some interesting history.

I believe the 747-400 can only claim to making one stop East Coast Australia to London flights economically viable. It allowed unrestricted payloads and access to the premium Singapore hub.

The first one stop Australia-UK flight was a Qantas 707 in 1974. It was Perth-Bombay-London. This itinerary featured in BA and QF timetables throughout the early 1980s, all operated by RB211 powered 747s.

Starting in Northern Summer 1986, Qantas offered a return, one stop Sydney-Bombay-London flights with the 747-300. If my memory is correct, this was the first Bi-directional one stop in the prime SYD-LHR market. It was in response to Singapore Airlines operating a nonstop London-Singapore with the 747-300 in 1984. SQ only flew nonstop inbound to SIN as it took advantage of the prevailing tailwinds.

Both BA and QF swapped the transit point to Bangkok soon after with 747-200s and 300s.
 
kimshep
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:01 am

wedgev wrote:
Vio wrote:
It's a sad day for the 747, but inevitable.

I don't want to seem like the guy who's complaining, but as an airline worker, I have given this a thought. I tried to imagine how much it would cost Qantas to do this publicity stunt.

Of course, I came up with these numbers by searching on the internet a few facts. I don’t fly a 747 and I’m not 100% sure on how much Qantas pays for each liter (or gallon) of fuel. There are obviously other factors involved here (speed, altitude, weather conditions, etc)

I just assumed “normal burn” for the entire time. I couldn’t find the price per liter that Qantas pays for Jet A, but in a “quarterly report”, made public by Air Canada, they expect to pay between $0.71 to $0.74 Canadian Dollars per LITER of Jet A. Canadian / Australian Dollar are somewhat on par, so I’ll use the same number.

Keeping all those uncertain factors in mind:
- Based on FR24 (Flight Radar 24) It took the flight roughly 2.5 hours from the moment it departed, until the flight completed the “display” and started to continue its trans-Pacific flight. I would imagine 0.5 hours was enough to get to the Start point, so let’s assume it took 2 hours to draw the whole “kangaroo diversion”. The rest would’ve been part of their flight plan anyway.
- The 747 burns 4 liters of Jet A per second. That’s 240 liters per minute, 14,400L per hour (747 or widebody pilots, please feel free to provide more accurate numbers).
- 2 hours would burn about 28,000 liters of Jet A.
- Assuming Qantas pays around $0.70 AUD per liter of Jet A, that would be a cost of $19, 600
IT COST QANTAS, ROUGHLY $20,000 AUD to do this stunt.

Normally, I wouldn’t say much about this, however given the crisis going on in the world today, workers being laid off, their benefits cut, the airlines asking for bailouts, it’s a little hard to swallow these “pills”. Even if it’s a drop in the bucket, in the grand scheme of things, every dollar count.

Again, my numbers may be way off, but no matter how you look at it, flying a 747 for an extra 2 hours is not cheap. How will you tell a ramp agent that their health benefits are being cut because “every penny counts”, yet you burn $20,000 to do a stunt that VERY FEW people see and understand. An airport / city flyover would've been sufficient. It’s not okay in my opinion, to literally burn money this way; not during the worst crisis the aviation world has ever seen.


As one of the 20,000 stood down QF employees and a current 787 Capt (so will be stood down for quite some time). If it did cost QF 20K for this then really, so what? Should they have given us all a $1 each? This is truly the end of an era for an aircraft that not only has been a major influence on QF (remember there was a time QF only flew 747's), but from a personal point of view I flew the 200/300/SP/400's over a 14 year period.

Given all the gloom and doom which seems to be persuasive currently it was fantastic what QF did, and would happy hand over my $1 for it.


Thank you for your excellent post WEDGEV. Always good to hear a view from a staff perspective.

Unfortunately, what a lot of the 'naysayers' are missing is that this was not done by QF management simply to celebrate the the departure of the B747 family. Clearly, many here are forgetting that this is the Qantas CENTENARY year - and your 100th birthday (officially in November) only happens once. As I'm sure you are aware, Qantas had planned a year long series of marketing / celebrations to mark it's birthday, but unfortunately COVID-19 has put paid to much of this. So, I am in total agreement that this marketing / celebration flight is all the more significant because of COVID. The only other 'major expenditure to publicize the centenary was the B787-9 '100 Year Livery' - and I'd bet that cost more that the iconic 'kangaroo' sky-writing artwork. However, no-one seems to be complaining about that. And neither should they!

Given the large number of airlines grounded and barely operational, Qantas is to be admired for paying 'due deference' to it's fleet, people, routes and history despite the gloom. COVID certainly has already cut what was budgeted for the 2020 QF Centenary. A damn shame, too.
 
uta999
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:24 pm

She is on the move again for the last time at LAX as QF7474 - VH-OEJ
Your computer just got better
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:57 pm

uta999 wrote:
She is on the move again for the last time at LAX as QF7474 - VH-OEJ


Transponder is on, but no movement. Leaving at 11AM according to FR24 and FlightAware. I’ll be at MHV for the final landing.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA7474
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
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Boeing757rb211
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Qantas Last 747; VH-OEJ Just filed its Flight Plan From KLAX to KKMHV

Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:57 pm

The 747 was never my FAVORITE aircraft. Most impressive maybe, largest possibly (at least until the A380 came out) but there was definitely always something really special about it,,, and its quite sad to see all these airlines getting rid of their entire fleets. I can only imagine some of the places these 747's have been to, and some of the people who have ridden on them, and if you could be the "fly on the cabin walls" the incredible stories that they might have during their flights or even at their gates. So this last Qantas 747-400ER just filing its flight plan to Majave is quite sad. Scheduled to Depart at 2pm EDT / 11AM PDT :( Good Luck :airplane:
 
DeltaPSCFlyer
Posts: 78
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Re: Qantas Last 747; VH-OEJ Just filed its Flight Plan From KLAX to KKMHV

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:01 pm

Wonder who the new owner is. I was hoping that an Australian organization would buy it, and then return it home to Australia where she rightfully belongs.
 
DeltaPSCFlyer
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:05 pm

Taxiing now, Flightradar shows what appears to be two firetrucks, presumably for the last water cannon salute to -OEJ
 
bennett123
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:21 pm

 
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seabosdca
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:21 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
How close was QF from ordering the 748?


It's a good thing they never considered it. The payload-range shortfall would have really hurt them. They probably couldn't have carried any more payload with a 748 than a 744ER.
 
DeltaPSCFlyer
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:21 pm

Just took off from Rwy 25R
 
bennett123
Posts: 9809
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:49 pm

Turning back to Mojave 3,500 feet.
 
bennett123
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:50 pm

On the ground.
 
PhilMcCrackin
Posts: 324
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:51 pm

....and the 747 era is over at QF.
 
FGITD
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:09 pm

qf2220 wrote:
Vio wrote:
IT COST QANTAS, ROUGHLY $20,000 AUD to do this stunt.

Normally, I wouldn’t say much about this, however given the crisis going on in the world today, workers being laid off, their benefits cut, the airlines asking for bailouts, it’s a little hard to swallow these “pills”. Even if it’s a drop in the bucket, in the grand scheme of things, every dollar count.



There is a morale boost to the staff that also cannot be measured and seeing QF treat the 744 this way helps people feel good about a company that is having to make hard decisions.

So yes, cash was spent, but was it wasted? No, I dont think it was.

And really, 20k is going to save maybe one part time baggage handler. So its not such a big deal really.


watching an empty 747 do a flyover will surely have done wonders for those being notified by QF that their jobs are being eliminated.

It's not so much the money value that matters, as you're right, 20k is not much, and it isn't as is they had to fire a baggage handler to make it happen. It's just the optics of it are quite poor.

Imagine at work you're being told times are tough, you may need to take a pay cut and might get laid off. Meanwhile your manager is throwing a party to celebrate that the company car is headed to the junkyard this Friday.
 
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Re: Qantas Last 747; VH-OEJ Just filed its Flight Plan From KLAX to KKMHV

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:36 pm

DeltaPSCFlyer wrote:
Wonder who the new owner is. I was hoping that an Australian organization would buy it, and then return it home to Australia where she rightfully belongs.


Think she's headed to scrap, engines bought by GE for use on 767s.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
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VCVSpotter
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:39 pm

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Just a normal teenager juggling AP classes and airplanes. No biggie • Love the 747 & 777-9 • Farewell KLM 747-400M
 
MrBretz
Posts: 557
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:50 pm

I will miss the Qantas 747s. I'm glad someone posted the late 1980s schedule. I was lucky to do the LAX, HNL, CNS, BNE, PPT, NAN,SYD routes. I also made to Christchurch and Auckland on 747s. I recall one wonderful time when Qantas was loading several 747's simultaneously via a long line at SYD. They kept calling out flight numbers and asking those people to come to the front of the line. I didn't seem to be moving and was sure I was going to miss my flight. They finally called my flight, we went to the front of the line, and we barely got aboard. As we sat down looking completely frazzled, the flight attendant came up and told us we looked like we needed a bottle of wine. We accepted. And we were in coach. Ah....the good ol' days.
 
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Re: End of an era: Last Qantas 747 retired today

Sat Jul 25, 2020 5:26 am

VH-OEJ at MHV after arriving from LAX

Image

https://twitter.com/rmpenfold/status/12 ... 41824?s=20
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