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OB1504
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:13 pm

drdisque wrote:
If the LH Group ULCC has long-haul it might fly to MIA and then codeshare with Avianca and Copa. In MIA they could proceed directly to their departure gate, just like connecting in Europe. It is a bit of a push to rely on feed at a station where UA has a minimal presence, but I think it could work.


BRU could barely support MIA service on TUI pre-COVID. I don’t think adding preclearance will change demand much.

Any passengers connecting onward to Avianca or Copa will still have to clear customs at MIA on the return trip, negating a lot of the convenience.
 
sagechan
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:29 pm

The biggest advantage of pre-clearance from any point of view other than DHS is it allows flights to airports without customs. Not sure BRU has that kind of demand to anywhere. But pre-clearance is offered on a basis of DHS wanting to push clearance as far from the boarder as possible when it can, airline usage isn't really important in that decision.
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deltairlines
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:41 pm

sagechan wrote:
The biggest advantage of pre-clearance from any point of view other than DHS is it allows flights to airports without customs. Not sure BRU has that kind of demand to anywhere. But pre-clearance is offered on a basis of DHS wanting to push clearance as far from the boarder as possible when it can, airline usage isn't really important in that decision.


Not true - an airport in the US must still have customs support available. Don't forget the inaugural YVR-SNA several years back - it was already in the air and had to divert because SNA didn't have any customs facility.

It doesn't need to be a full FIS (see LGA and DCA as key examples) but if for some reason, US CBP needs to meet that cleared flight, the airport has to have them on-site.

As for pre-clearance, it only makes sense from select Canada markets where there's enough volume. As a US citizen, I hate pre-clearance. I have Global Entry and I think the longest I've had to wait in the past two years pre-COVID (which equated to about 80 entries into the United States) was maybe 3-5 minutes a handful of times in ATL. I'd rather not have to get to the airport so early for pre-clearance, especially since all the times I've done it that I can recall (I've pre-cleared in YYZ, AUA, NAS and DUB before) - all but YYZ required going through normal security screening, and then another screening (to full TSA standards)...it's a pain in the behind, especially if you're terminating at your destination...it's much wasted time.

I'd be more than happy if the US government let preclearance be in place at YUL, YYZ, YYC, YVR and maybe YEG/YHZ/YOW (harder to justify those in my mind though) and get rid of the ones everywhere else.
 
sagechan
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Thu Jul 23, 2020 4:47 pm

deltairlines wrote:
sagechan wrote:
The biggest advantage of pre-clearance from any point of view other than DHS is it allows flights to airports without customs. Not sure BRU has that kind of demand to anywhere. But pre-clearance is offered on a basis of DHS wanting to push clearance as far from the boarder as possible when it can, airline usage isn't really important in that decision.


Not true - an airport in the US must still have customs support available. Don't forget the inaugural YVR-SNA several years back - it was already in the air and had to divert because SNA didn't have any customs facility.

It doesn't need to be a full FIS (see LGA and DCA as key examples) but if for some reason, US CBP needs to meet that cleared flight, the airport has to have them on-site.

As for pre-clearance, it only makes sense from select Canada markets where there's enough volume. As a US citizen, I hate pre-clearance. I have Global Entry and I think the longest I've had to wait in the past two years pre-COVID (which equated to about 80 entries into the United States) was maybe 3-5 minutes a handful of times in ATL. I'd rather not have to get to the airport so early for pre-clearance, especially since all the times I've done it that I can recall (I've pre-cleared in YYZ, AUA, NAS and DUB before) - all but YYZ required going through normal security screening, and then another screening (to full TSA standards)...it's a pain in the behind, especially if you're terminating at your destination...it's much wasted time.

I'd be more than happy if the US government let preclearance be in place at YUL, YYZ, YYC, YVR and maybe YEG/YHZ/YOW (harder to justify those in my mind though) and get rid of the ones everywhere else.


I should have said FIS,as you are correct, but most airports have access to US CDP personnel for one-off flights, we even do in small CRW. From an airline perspective I more or less agree with your last paragraph, but for DHS the point is to screen foreigners outside the US when possible, the airline business side isn't really important to them.
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airbazar
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:01 pm

hohd wrote:
Agree with the above poster. Pre clearance yields no benefits to US citizens. I have cleared customs and immigration in US and most of the times it took less than an hour (most of this time is waiting for the bags, which I have to wait even if I have pre clearance). With the kiosks, immigration is a breeze.

Factor in the transfer from the international arriving terminal to whatever terminal your connection is departing from and the risk of a missed connection increases.
There are benefits. They may not be significant but they exist.
Take BOS for example where all flights arrive in a Intl terminal. After waiting ~1 hour to clear immigration and pick up your bags you then have to go and wait in another line to re-check your bag for the onward flight. Then you go outside to the curb and hop on a bus because the terminals are not all connected and make your way to the next terminal. Lets say United's terminal B since SN is a *A carrier. Now you've arrived at terminal B and it's about 5PM which is the busiest time and there's a 20-30 minute wait in a long line to re-clear security so you can access your gate. You might have done all of that while schlepping an overweight carry-on in 90 degree heat and 100% humidity, like yesterday. By the time you arrive at your gate your clothes are soaked in sweat and you stink.
Compare that to spending 30 minutes pre-clearing in BRU and then arriving into United's domestic terminal, and merely having to make your way to your departing gate.
Anyone who says pre-clearance has no benefits to US citizens has never actually done it.
 
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usdcaguy
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:27 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:

I'm fine with Canada as the US carriers get the benefit of their 30 flights day ex-YYZ arriving as domestic flights. I'm.againt something like AUH or SNN which basically get no use from US carriers.

Isn't that the US carrier's decision not to fly to SNN or AUH? Nobody has stopped US carriers from flying to those cities. They choose not to.


They choose not to because there's so little O&D demand to/from AUH. Some airlines like DL will serve SNN seasonally as does EI, which makes preclearance there more interesting. The fact that DL can preclear in SNN (and also DUB) is an advantage, as it enables them to keep those passengers out of the big mess at JFK. This may benefit EI more, but ultimately everyone gets something out of the deal. As a traveler, I always want to preclear. Getting on the plane knowing that you don't have to do anything when you get to the US can be a real relief.
 
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ojjunior
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:18 pm

I'm pretty sure that many Europeans will love the idea.

If airlines operating BRU-(USA) do their Marketing homework, many will choose to fly from BRU instead of AMS or CDG for example, if that will save time on arrival in the USA.

it's a hell of opportunity for BRU airport folks to take advantage of that, I hope they're smart enough.

If i'm not mistaken there are direct train services from Amsterdam Centraal, Rotterdam and AMS airport direct to BRU airport, or at most, with 1 single connection, same for Paris-Brussels, all under 2h ride with Thalys and/or SNCF with pretty affordable prices depending on time/day. For me it would be a no-brainer since I'm a train geek too.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 8:45 pm

US-Belgium signed the preclearance agreement Will allow basing of 30 U.S. CBP officers at BRU.

https://www.aviation24.be/airports/brus ... h-the-usa/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
onwFan
Posts: 451
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:18 pm

LAXintl wrote:
US-Belgium signed the preclearance agreement Will allow basing of 30 U.S. CBP officers at BRU.

https://www.aviation24.be/airports/brus ... h-the-usa/

Great news! Although I don’t think this will incentivize LH to have SN launch more non-stops to the US from BRU. On the other hand, as others have pointed out above, this might be a good advantage for DL’s non-stop services at BRU (and an incentive for AA to consider resuming BRU at some point with the A321XLR) by some flyers choosing to fly from BRU direct to the US instead of connecting through the (non-pre-cleared) mega-hubs.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:33 pm

I can see IAH-BRU on either SN or UA for oil, but I'm afraid it may hurt IAH regaining CDG on UA if that happens.
When wasn't America great?


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N292UX
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:27 pm

Nothing will happen for a while, but once things do pick up, I'm sure a few will be added.

AA to PHL (maybe with the A321XLR) seems inevitable
NW used to serve BRU from DTW so maybe DL would eventually launch DTW-BRU? They could use a 752 for that route if they wanted to
UA to SFO is more likely to come before IAH, IMO.
B6 is a maybe. Pretty sure no one flies BOS-BRU, so I could see them eventually launching that.

Regardless, I don't expect many EU adds from the US3 for a while.
 
splitterz
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:43 pm

I’d expect UA to add over any one else with it being a Star hub. That being said, I don’t think any additions will happen for a while.
 
ItnStln
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:38 am

LAXintl wrote:
US-Belgium signed the preclearance agreement Will allow basing of 30 U.S. CBP officers at BRU.

https://www.aviation24.be/airports/brus ... h-the-usa/

That's awesome!
 
TonyClifton
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:41 am

I’ve usually found GlobalEntry on arrival to beat PreClearance on check in. Adds time for me.
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:40 am

drdisque wrote:
If the LH Group ULCC has long-haul it might fly to MIA and then codeshare with Avianca and Copa. In MIA they could proceed directly to their departure gate, just like connecting in Europe. It is a bit of a push to rely on feed at a station where UA has a minimal presence, but I think it could work.
That's something SN (LH), CM and AV would have to negotiate, UA wouldn't really care if SN/AV/CM have it or not.
Going thru pre-clearance @ BRU instead of MIA for those with international connections in MIA would save travellers those long immigration queues and baggage waiting times in MIA.
IMHO, a quite good way for LH to try to keep some market share in Europe - PTY (CM) hub while LH FRA-PTY is suspended.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
Nicknuzzii
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:00 am

2travel2know2 wrote:
drdisque wrote:
If the LH Group ULCC has long-haul it might fly to MIA and then codeshare with Avianca and Copa. In MIA they could proceed directly to their departure gate, just like connecting in Europe. It is a bit of a push to rely on feed at a station where UA has a minimal presence, but I think it could work.
That's something SN (LH), CM and AV would have to negotiate, UA wouldn't really care if SN/AV/CM have it or not.
Going thru pre-clearance @ BRU instead of MIA for those with international connections in MIA would save travellers those long immigration queues and baggage waiting times in MIA.
IMHO, a quite good way for LH to try to keep some market share in Europe - PTY (CM) hub while LH FRA-PTY is suspended.


LH would definitely push for traffic to fly FRA/BRU/MUC-EWR-PTY before MIA is introduced.
 
Curiousflyer
Posts: 587
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:02 am

Pre-clearance from Canada is useful because you can fly to LGA, which otherwise does not have immigration facilities. It is also helpful because immigration to the US is often a hassle, with long stupid lines and rude staff. It is not better when you pre-clear but at least you are not already exhausted after a long flight.

But still, it is an oddity that this could even be needed.

Why is it such a hassle to enter the US? Why is their immigration staff so rude and incompetent and lazy and slow? Other developed countries like Japan or Germany or France are much more efficient, and they do not have more illegal immigration or terrorism or fraud of any kind. This is completely stupid and unnecessary, particularly in this century where the US government knows everything about you even before you board a plane.
Over 99% of travelers are not going to do anything illegal, but in the US everyone getting on a plane is guilty until proven innocent. And then you need expensive and painful processes like pre-clearance, global entry or similar crap just because this country’s administration is a mess, worthy of the third world.
 
cityshuttle
Posts: 148
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:02 am

But does PTY has preclearance too ?

Otherwise you only eliminate the queuing in MIA on the potential BRU-MIA-PTY leg, but face the same problems on the return leg
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Rumour: BRU Getting US Pre-Clearance - Possible New Routes?

Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:36 am

cityshuttle wrote:
But does PTY has preclearance too ?

Otherwise you only eliminate the queuing in MIA on the potential BRU-MIA-PTY leg, but face the same problems on the return leg
When it comes to CM arrivals in MIA, the immigration queues depend on the arrival time, there're times CM is the only flight arriving J.
PTY hasn't US pre-clearance. US government offered to PTY early 90's but having US pre-clearance actually doesn't benefit CM hub that much.
However, many travellers would choose to do pre-clearance at an international airport like PTY so to avoid long entry procedures in MIA/MCO/JFK/LAX and other airports.
I could believe US PTY port-of-entry pre-clearance is something that could be discussed next time Panama and USA take on bilateral issues.
I'm not on CM's payroll.

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