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Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:12 pm
by Ishrion
Caribbean Airlines has applied to launch 3x weekly flights from Port of Spain to Houston-Intercontinental as soon as August 14 if approved.

Additionally, they have applied to offer twice-monthly charter services between Houston and Georgetown, Guyana using POS-IAH-GEO and GEO-IAH-POS routings.

All flights are with the 737-800.

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 26586-0023

Not bad seeing a new international route during these times. Are they trying to go head on against United's IAH-POS flight? Is there some corporate demand between IAH and Georgetown?

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:20 pm
by Brickell305
Re the corporate demand between IAH and GEO, yes there is as oil was recently discovered in significant quantities in GEO and now there’s a strong nascent oil industry there. How that competes with AA’s daily one stop connecting opportunity remains to be seen.

On the POS route, there’s significant VFR and a business market there as well both due to Trinidad’s well developed oil industry. How that competes with UA who flies the route nonstop daily and AA, CM who can both offer daily one stop connections is anyone’s guess; especially in this era.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:07 pm
by bravotango75
That is odd ball timing. A new route to a city that is seeing a major spike in COVID cases in addition to it’s main source of revenue, oil on the decline. Never mind that most countries are banning travel to and from the US. What makes Caribbean Airlines so certain that all will be right with the world, come Aug 14?

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:18 pm
by maverick4002
Yay! Wanted this for a while.

But I hoped they could try for Hobby (is that possible even) as its closer to downtown (I think) and maybe they could have a hook up with Southwest for connecting passengers!

I know United does well on the route so wishing them luck

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:19 pm
by maverick4002
Wait, also August 14th? I assume thats when the TT borders open up? Let me look at flights

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:31 pm
by maverick4002
bravotango75 wrote:
That is odd ball timing. A new route to a city that is seeing a major spike in COVID cases in addition to it’s main source of revenue, oil on the decline. Never mind that most countries are banning travel to and from the US. What makes Caribbean Airlines so certain that all will be right with the world, come Aug 14?


I just read the docket and they state: "Although all markets will feel the effects of COVID-19 on demand, CAL’s proposed routes will meet the expected increase of demand as nations in the Caribbean are reopening their borders, especially in light of the recently announced liquidation of LIAT, Ltd"

CAL is attempting to take over some of the routes left by LIAT. I wonder if they have data that shows they can gather passengers from LIAT routes to help feed the flight?

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:31 am
by fowlr29
I wish them good luck, just seems like the wrong time to be launching a new route, especially as the official opening of TnT's borders hasn't even been announced. August 14th seems very optimistic. Just like their optimistic Kingston to Miami flights that have been cancelled numerous times over the past week because of less than expected demand.

Getting rights for it and putting it on the drawing board makes sense, the August 14th date doesn't.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:42 am
by caribny
I would have thought that a BWI POS route would come first, based on the reasonable VFR on that route. Maybe UA will reduce service on this rote so BW is jumping in? To drop FLL and add IAH seems unusual, and they must be because they are running KIN MIA which is weaker for them than a KIN FLL would have been.

They were previously granted approval in 2006 but didnt begin service during the period authorized.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:53 am
by Brickell305
fowlr29 wrote:
I wish them good luck, just seems like the wrong time to be launching a new route, especially as the official opening of TnT's borders hasn't even been announced. August 14th seems very optimistic. Just like their optimistic Kingston to Miami flights that have been cancelled numerous times over the past week because of less than expected demand.

Getting rights for it and putting it on the drawing board makes sense, the August 14th date doesn't.

I’m guessing they felt that if they waited, UA would be back to normal and would run them off the route. No route is going to be performing well at the moment so I don’t see IAH hurting more than anywhere else. In a time where they definitely have slack in the fleet, they may have felt like this was the time to establish themselves. I didn’t think they’d fly GEO nonstop though. I figured they would route GEO pax via POS. So this is quite ambitious.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:02 am
by fowlr29
Brickell305 wrote:
fowlr29 wrote:
I wish them good luck, just seems like the wrong time to be launching a new route, especially as the official opening of TnT's borders hasn't even been announced. August 14th seems very optimistic. Just like their optimistic Kingston to Miami flights that have been cancelled numerous times over the past week because of less than expected demand.

Getting rights for it and putting it on the drawing board makes sense, the August 14th date doesn't.

I’m guessing they felt that if they waited, UA would be back to normal and would run them off the route. No route is going to be performing well at the moment so I don’t see IAH hurting more than anywhere else. In a time where they definitely have slack in the fleet, they may have felt like this was the time to establish themselves. I didn’t think they’d fly GEO nonstop though. I figured they would route GEO pax via POS. So this is quite ambitious.


United starts back middle of September if the borders open and the stars align.

Still seems too soon seeing as the borders are closed. IAH POS is a business route, and well, we all know where demand right now for business travel is. Too soon for this in my opinion. August 14th is less than a month away. It means arranging contracts for handling, gate space, contracts for hotel layovers, and more importantly, getting enough bookings before then.

I doubt we will see them start August 14th.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:04 am
by ScottB
maverick4002 wrote:
But I hoped they could try for Hobby (is that possible even) as its closer to downtown (I think) and maybe they could have a hook up with Southwest for connecting passengers!


It's unlikely they'd be able to connect passengers with Southwest aside from passengers on do-it-yourself itineraries with separate tickets; WN doesn't interline or code share

Aircraft performance from HOU's 7,600' runways also might be a problem with HOU-POS being about an hour further than HOU-SJU and HOU-GEO being nearly another hour longer than that. Caribbean routes aren't exactly known for having passengers who travel lightly. HOU does have an FIS again thanks to WN.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:16 am
by caribny
Brickell305 wrote:
fowlr29 wrote:
I wish them good luck, just seems like the wrong time to be launching a new route, especially as the official opening of TnT's borders hasn't even been announced. August 14th seems very optimistic. Just like their optimistic Kingston to Miami flights that have been cancelled numerous times over the past week because of less than expected demand.

Getting rights for it and putting it on the drawing board makes sense, the August 14th date doesn't.

I’m guessing they felt that if they waited, UA would be back to normal and would run them off the route. No route is going to be performing well at the moment so I don’t see IAH hurting more than anywhere else. In a time where they definitely have slack in the fleet, they may have felt like this was the time to establish themselves. I didn’t think they’d fly GEO nonstop though. I figured they would route GEO pax via POS. So this is quite ambitious.



The GEO nonstop service are charters as unrestricted opening of GEO doesnt seem imminent. Maybe once GEO is fully reopened BW will plan service via POS, as there will be less need for the charters. Maybe they think that contracts on the IAH GEO will reduce pressure on the POS sector to fill the plane.

I do agree that its optimistic but then I detect that this CEO is of that breed, bolstered by BWs improved financial performance since he took over.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:32 am
by fowlr29
Agreed that the only way this makes sense is if they have gotten a corporate contract that they believe will take pressure off of filling the rest of the plane.

The only real connection between GEO and IAH would be with American through Miami, but their timing would be really bad for business travelers, albeit with better weekly frequencies. If CAL can have a better timed flight through POS once the borders reopen then I can see the benefit of giving CAL the contract compared to the alternative. Still very optimistic, but it would make this decision seem a lot more rational.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:10 am
by maverick4002
fowlr29 wrote:
Agreed that the only way this makes sense is if they have gotten a corporate contract that they believe will take pressure off of filling the rest of the plane.

The only real connection between GEO and IAH would be with American through Miami, but their timing would be really bad for business travelers, albeit with better weekly frequencies. If CAL can have a better timed flight through POS once the borders reopen then I can see the benefit of giving CAL the contract compared to the alternative. Still very optimistic, but it would make this decision seem a lot more rational.


The docket states that they've gotten a contract with an energy company to transport their employees but this is charter flights specifically. Not sure how that ties into the scheduled service

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 2:10 am
by 2travel2know2
ScottB wrote:
maverick4002 wrote:
But I hoped they could try for Hobby (is that possible even) as its closer to downtown (I think) and maybe they could have a hook up with Southwest for connecting passengers!


It's unlikely they'd be able to connect passengers with Southwest aside from passengers on do-it-yourself itineraries with separate tickets; WN doesn't interline or code share

Aircraft performance from HOU's 7,600' runways also might be a problem with HOU-POS being about an hour further than HOU-SJU and HOU-GEO being nearly another hour longer than that. Caribbean routes aren't exactly known for having passengers who travel lightly. HOU does have an FIS again thanks to WN.
Same here, IMHO, if BW could take off fully loaded from HOU runway, POS-HOU would have been an interesting option for Houston O/D and made BW service slightly different from UA.
Also, my guess is that it's actually cheaper to operate into HOU than into IAH.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 1:15 pm
by caribbean484
Brickell305 wrote:
Re the corporate demand between IAH and GEO, yes there is as oil was recently discovered in significant quantities in GEO and now there’s a strong nascent oil industry there. How that competes with AA’s daily one stop connecting opportunity remains to be seen.

On the POS route, there’s significant VFR and a business market there as well both due to Trinidad’s well developed oil industry. How that competes with UA who flies the route nonstop daily and AA, CM who can both offer daily one stop connections is anyone’s guess; especially in this era.


caribny wrote:
The GEO nonstop service are charters as unrestricted opening of GEO doesnt seem imminent. Maybe once GEO is fully reopened BW will plan service via POS, as there will be less need for the charters. Maybe they think that contracts on the IAH GEO will reduce pressure on the POS sector to fill the plane.I do agree that its optimistic but then I detect that this CEO is of that breed, bolstered by BWs improved financial performance since he took over.


I have heard from my source late last year that they were looking at a couple of US routes, and to start one this year, more so Washington DC area but this one was a surprise. Reading their document, they have won some significant oil contracts in POS and GEO and want to start executing asap.

I am interested to see how AA and UA will react to this as AA started GEO-MIA as they had the oil contracts locked up and the business fares reflected that. POS with UA, BWIA always wanted to start IAH in 2001, however TTCAA was downgraded to Cat2 and UA came in with short partnership with BW back then on the route. They also wanted to start ATL at that time, then DL came in and left after a couple years service.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:51 am
by caribny
Once BGI fully reopens and the USA moves beyond its current pandemic stage some US routes will become feasible as BGIs tourism market can be combined with the VFR/business of POS/GEO. IAH can be an extension of IAH POS and an IAD BGI POS route might work. Not sure what their plans for FLL are. I assume that MCO will be gone for the foreseeable future.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 3:01 pm
by aemoreira1981
On the westbound, HOU might really be stretching it on a B738, especially in the winter. The return trip would have to be GEO-POS-IAH in the winter (GEO-IAH is about 2530 nmi, going northwest). This is a route for which the B38M would be much more optimal.

Now, a more intriguing route in the future might be a route to SAT (again, oil related, if some contracts can be landed), but nothing other than a B38M or an A21N could work there.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:23 pm
by caribbean484
caribny wrote:
Once BGI fully reopens and the USA moves beyond its current pandemic stage some US routes will become feasible as BGIs tourism market can be combined with the VFR/business of POS/GEO. IAH can be an extension of IAH POS and an IAD BGI POS route might work. Not sure what their plans for FLL are. I assume that MCO will be gone for the foreseeable future.


MCO will return when ever the boarders are opened, IAD would likely be routed to POS and then transfer to the other islands. I get from their plan they want to keep the focus on POS and KIN for those "Medium Ranged" routes and either tag on like GEO or transfer to the regional flights. So they plan GEO-POS-IAH-POS-GEO.

aemoreira1981 wrote:
On the westbound, HOU might really be stretching it on a B738, especially in the winter. The return trip would have to be GEO-POS-IAH in the winter (GEO-IAH is about 2530 nmi, going northwest). This is a route for which the B38M would be much more optimal. Now, a more intriguing route in the future might be a route to SAT (again, oil related, if some contracts can be landed), but nothing other than a B38M or an A21N could work there.


Interesting you mentioned SAT, not sure what the local population is there to POS/GEO though. I doubt they would go do HOU, as you mentioned too short of a runway for the distance on takeoff. Much like why the stopped GEO-YYZ when the runway was short, the payload hit was high.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:43 pm
by caribny
caribbean484 wrote:

MCO will return when ever the boarders are opened, IAD would likely be routed to POS and then transfer to the other islands. I get from their plan they want to keep the focus on POS and KIN for those "Medium Ranged" routes and either tag on like GEO or transfer to the regional flights. So they plan GEO-POS-IAH-POS-GEO.
h.



I assume that MCO has strong VFR as I dont imagine the Disney market will be back too soon. What of FLL? I dont think that the BW KIN MIA route is working ut, even though AA is just down to daily from 3X. The US based English speaking Caribbean VFR is not too excited in travel, unlike their Hispanic counterparts.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:00 pm
by OB1504
caribny wrote:
I assume that MCO has strong VFR as I dont imagine the Disney market will be back too soon. What of FLL? I dont think that the BW KIN MIA route is working ut, even though AA is just down to daily from 3X. The US based English speaking Caribbean VFR is not too excited in travel, unlike their Hispanic counterparts.


If BW is in cost cutting mode, wouldn’t it make sense to close FLL or MIA and consolidate at the other station? Pre pandemic MIA was a smaller station for BW with only one turn a day.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:40 pm
by Brickell305
OB1504 wrote:
caribny wrote:
I assume that MCO has strong VFR as I dont imagine the Disney market will be back too soon. What of FLL? I dont think that the BW KIN MIA route is working ut, even though AA is just down to daily from 3X. The US based English speaking Caribbean VFR is not too excited in travel, unlike their Hispanic counterparts.


If BW is in cost cutting mode, wouldn’t it make sense to close FLL or MIA and consolidate at the other station? Pre pandemic MIA was a smaller station for BW with only one turn a day.

I think the consolidation does make sense and that appears to be what they are doing. However, despite FLL being the larger station pre-pandemic, MIA was always going to be the likely choice for consolidated ops as BW is much more POS-oriented than it is KIN-oriented. POS-MIA historically performs better than POS-FLL even with more significant competition. As such, that was always the more likely pick for consolidation in So. Fla.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:47 am
by caribbean484
Brickell305 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
caribny wrote:
I assume that MCO has strong VFR as I dont imagine the Disney market will be back too soon. What of FLL? I don't think that the BW KIN MIA route is working ut, even though AA is just down to daily from 3X. The US based English speaking Caribbean VFR is not too excited in travel, unlike their Hispanic counterparts.


If BW is in cost cutting mode, wouldn’t it make sense to close FLL or MIA and consolidate at the other station? Pre pandemic MIA was a smaller station for BW with only one turn a day.

I think the consolidation does make sense and that appears to be what they are doing. However, despite FLL being the larger station pre-pandemic, MIA was always going to be the likely choice for consolidated ops as BW is much more POS-oriented than it is KIN-oriented. POS-MIA historically performs better than POS-FLL even with more significant competition. As such, that was always the more likely pick for consolidation in So. Fla.


Well, they have consolidated at MIA for now. As Bricklel305 mentioned, MIA might be a single operation pax flight, but that pax flight is one of the highest yielding markets in their system. Business is between 80-100% full year-round, Premium economy has very high loads and the 738 carries lots of cargo with the B763. Plus the airline has its US cargo operations based in MIA. What I am not sure of is if it will be permanent as they have FLL loaded in the system in the fall.

With IAH being added it seems that CAL will tackle all the relevant business markets in North America with YYZ and MIA. I am interested to see how UA will respond as at one time BW and UA were in Strategic Cooperation.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:14 pm
by hohd
A good route for Caribbean. The few times I looked up to go to Port of Spain from IAH, the fares were quite high. Will look forward to travel on Caribbean once all the airports are open and the current Covid situation under control. Businesses nowadays often travel like leisure travelers, they also look for lower prices and from the Trinidad point of origin, many would prefer Caribbean.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:50 pm
by LAXdude1023
bravotango75 wrote:
That is odd ball timing. A new route to a city that is seeing a major spike in COVID cases in addition to it’s main source of revenue, oil on the decline. Never mind that most countries are banning travel to and from the US. What makes Caribbean Airlines so certain that all will be right with the world, come Aug 14?


You have a strange obsession with Houston that I dont think Ill ever understand.

Covid has affected every city. We had out peak about 10 days ago and things are now coming down. Youre beloved Boston went through what were going through and probably will again. We all will. Cases will rise and fall like a demented yo-yo until a vaccine is here and no place is immune. Thats why bringing up Covid is a ridiculous argument when were talking about long term service.

As for oil, its down for a while but certainly not out. Either way, saying Houston is an oil city is a misnomer. Its the ENERGY capital of the world and that includes green energy. Houston will lead the transition to green energy.

Houston gets 92% of its energy from green sources. Thats more than ANY OTHER CITY IN THE US.

https://www.papercitymag.com/culture/ho ... gas-world/

https://www.wclimate.com/post/houston-e ... renewables

Somerville, MA Greentown Labs is opening its operations center in Houston for that reason. HQ will remain in MA, but the R&D and heavy lifting done here. It doesnt matter if its oil and gas or green energy, NOWHERE on earth has the expertise than Houston has in those fields.

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/new ... uston.html

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:29 pm
by AVENSAB727
LAXdude1023 wrote:
bravotango75 wrote:
That is odd ball timing. A new route to a city that is seeing a major spike in COVID cases in addition to it’s main source of revenue, oil on the decline. Never mind that most countries are banning travel to and from the US. What makes Caribbean Airlines so certain that all will be right with the world, come Aug 14?


You have a strange obsession with Houston that I dont think Ill ever understand.

Covid has affected every city. We had out peak about 10 days ago and things are now coming down. Youre beloved Boston went through what were going through and probably will again. We all will. Cases will rise and fall like a demented yo-yo until a vaccine is here and no place is immune. Thats why bringing up Covid is a ridiculous argument when were talking about long term service.

As for oil, its down for a while but certainly not out. Either way, saying Houston is an oil city is a misnomer. Its the ENERGY capital of the world and that includes green energy. Houston will lead the transition to green energy.

Houston gets 92% of its energy from green sources. Thats more than ANY OTHER CITY IN THE US.

https://www.papercitymag.com/culture/ho ... gas-world/

https://www.wclimate.com/post/houston-e ... renewables

Somerville, MA Greentown Labs is opening its operations center in Houston for that reason. HQ will remain in MA, but the R&D and heavy lifting done here. It doesnt matter if its oil and gas or green energy, NOWHERE on earth has the expertise than Houston has in those fields.

https://www.bizjournals.com/houston/new ... uston.html

He is just jealous....

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 6:52 pm
by Ishrion
Obviously much past August 14, but Caribbean Airlines' request finally got approved:

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 26586-0024

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:48 am
by Brickell305
Ishrion wrote:
Obviously much past August 14, but Caribbean Airlines' request finally got approved:

https://www.regulations.gov/document?D= ... 26586-0024

Congrats to them. However, the borders of Trinidad and Tobago remain closed so neither route will be starting any time soon.

Re: Caribbean Airlines Applies For Houston

Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 9:37 am
by aircountry
here is more update about Houston and Caribbean Airlines https://guyanaaviation.com/2020/10/02/u ... d-houston/