Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
tofur
Topic Author
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:04 pm

Air Canada mainline will return to the following markets; Athens, Barcelona, Bogota, Edinburgh, Lima, Lisbon and Manchester. Of course, it's far too early to know how the industry will ultimately look in 2021, but interesting to see the projections. A mix of 787 and 330 will operate most routes.

https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... t-22jul20/
 
by738
Posts: 3101
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:48 pm

The 738 Max listed looks fun! Wonder why some still listed as 763 when they're reported as all grounded. More changes pending I suspect. Presume TS merger will play its part.
 
User avatar
DLHAM
Posts: 512
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Thu Jul 23, 2020 11:53 pm

by738 wrote:
Wonder why some still listed as 763 when they're reported as all grounded. More changes pending I suspect. Presume TS merger will play its part.


If you ask me I do not see a lot of these "767 routes" coming back in 2021.
My Instagram Account: Instagram
 
Whiteguy
Posts: 1533
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:11 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:17 am

DLHAM wrote:
by738 wrote:
Wonder why some still listed as 763 when they're reported as all grounded. More changes pending I suspect. Presume TS merger will play its part.


If you ask me I do not see a lot of these "767 routes" coming back in 2021.


A few of those routes were planned to be launched as MAX routes, 767s were used after the grounding.
 
SueD
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:42 am

DLHAM wrote:
by738 wrote:
Wonder why some still listed as 763 when they're reported as all grounded. More changes pending I suspect. Presume TS merger will play its part.


If you ask me I do not see a lot of these "767 routes" coming back in 2021.


Which one do you think won’t return

Europe
Athens - short season cruise contracts and tourist related
Barcelona - ditto above
Edinburgh - Tourist and some VFR traffic one of Rouges best performers
Manchester - always good albeit short seasonal; good loads with quite high fares I might add .
Lisbon - More cruise and some VFR traffic and a little amont of codeshare potential with TAP.

South America
Bogotá - plenty VFR and freight
Lima - as above plus some tourist traffic.

Were pretty much the core long haul of Rouge, the European routes were also strong and if the merger is completed with Air Transat combined forces may actually reduce capacity whilst increasing the product quality; we shall see.

Which are the weak ones In your opinion ?
 
8herveg
Posts: 1487
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:00 am

Why were the B767’s grounded? Is it because they’re too expensive to run as they’re old, and now there’s not enough demand due to COVID? If that’s the case, won’t that change next year when things are back up and running?

Thanks
 
SueD
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:32 am

8herveg wrote:
Why were the B767’s grounded? Is it because they’re too expensive to run as they’re old, and now there’s not enough demand due to COVID? If that’s the case, won’t that change next year when things are back up and running?

Thanks

Same reason BA have dumped the 744 fleet , they were ageing and their planned withdrawal has come few years early with the help of COVID . They’re already schedule to leave mainline this year and it seems the board simply think Rouge is a potential dead duck brand now.

If the merger with Air Transat is completed the very reason for Rouge falls away completely.
 
aviator2000
Posts: 74
Joined: Sun May 20, 2018 11:19 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:41 am

SueD wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
by738 wrote:
Wonder why some still listed as 763 when they're reported as all grounded. More changes pending I suspect. Presume TS merger will play its part.


If you ask me I do not see a lot of these "767 routes" coming back in 2021.


Which one do you think won’t return

Europe
Athens - short season cruise contracts and tourist related
Barcelona - ditto above
Edinburgh - Tourist and some VFR traffic one of Rouges best performers
Manchester - always good albeit short seasonal; good loads with quite high fares I might add .
Lisbon - More cruise and some VFR traffic and a little amont of codeshare potential with TAP.

South America
Bogotá - plenty VFR and freight
Lima - as above plus some tourist traffic.

Were pretty much the core long haul of Rouge, the European routes were also strong and if the merger is completed with Air Transat combined forces may actually reduce capacity whilst increasing the product quality; we shall see.

Which are the weak ones In your opinion ?

IMO, the ones which won't return are the ones which haven't yet been filed to be replaced by AC mainline. Of course things can change a lot in a year's time, but I'm preety confident that that the ones listed above have all got high numbers of coming back next year.
 
SueD
Posts: 256
Joined: Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:35 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 9:50 am

Oh and if you think travel over the Atlantic will be anywhere near normalised think again. Americans are among the most risk averse on the planet . Both the US and Canada remain pretty much closed to unfettered foreign organic blobs for the foreseeable future.

The impending US Presidential election has effectively closed down government working their as it always does.
I expect little movement until November so we’ll into 2021 before new shoots appear in the US market in particular.
 
User avatar
aemoreira1981
Posts: 3569
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:17 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:01 pm

SueD wrote:
Oh and if you think travel over the Atlantic will be anywhere near normalised think again. Americans are among the most risk averse on the planet . Both the US and Canada remain pretty much closed to unfettered foreign organic blobs for the foreseeable future.

The impending US Presidential election has effectively closed down government working their as it always does.
I expect little movement until November so we’ll into 2021 before new shoots appear in the US market in particular.


Actually Canada handled this much better and countries, including the EU, are welcoming back Canadians, but not Americans.
 
Thomaas
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:26 pm

I wonder where is AC planning to get all that extra A330 capacity from, even with the recent A330 deliveries. They will need 7.5 frames to operate BCN, ATH, LIS, and MAN. My guess is that they'll cancel YUL-TLS and the extra frequencies on YYZ/YUL-CDG and YUL-BRU, as well as YVR-CDG/ZRH/DUB with YUL-DUB going to the MAX.
 
DobboDobbo
Posts: 1127
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2016 1:02 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:39 pm

SueD wrote:
If the merger with Air Transat is completed the very reason for Rouge falls away completely.


Good point this - is AC and TS merge, there will be some duplication.

I can’t imagine them flying in competition with each other (eg AC and TS both flying YYZ-MAN) unless the regulator gets involved.
 
Skyblue39
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:34 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:51 pm

Thomaas wrote:
I wonder where is AC planning to get all that extra A330 capacity from, even with the recent A330 deliveries. They will need 7.5 frames to operate BCN, ATH, LIS, and MAN. My guess is that they'll cancel YUL-TLS and the extra frequencies on YYZ/YUL-CDG and YUL-BRU, as well as YVR-CDG/ZRH/DUB with YUL-DUB going to the MAX.


Both YVR-DUB and YUL-DUB will be on the 787, not the A330 or MAX.
 
Thomaas
Posts: 682
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:32 pm

Skyblue39 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
I wonder where is AC planning to get all that extra A330 capacity from, even with the recent A330 deliveries. They will need 7.5 frames to operate BCN, ATH, LIS, and MAN. My guess is that they'll cancel YUL-TLS and the extra frequencies on YYZ/YUL-CDG and YUL-BRU, as well as YVR-CDG/ZRH/DUB with YUL-DUB going to the MAX.


Both YVR-DUB and YUL-DUB will be on the 787, not the A330 or MAX.

AC can easily put those 787s on A330 routes, which then frees up the A330s to do the new flying. I simply don’t see how AC can maintain all of its current routes and frequencies while also adding 6 daily flights (+ 1 x 5 times a week) in peak summer season.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:39 pm

Air Canada Rouge is a different company from mainline and crew don’t cross fleet. Were all the Rouge B767 pilots let go?

Also I note no sign of Glasgow coming back? Surely a MAX route?
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 4:51 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Air Canada Rouge is a different company from mainline and crew don’t cross fleet. Were all the Rouge B767 pilots let go?

A Rouge assignment is just an equipment bid. All of the Rouge pilots now hold mainline (or surplus for the junior ones) on the latest equipment assignment.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 5:14 pm

Wow! So did mainline and Rouge operate each others B767s and A319s?
 
codyul
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:24 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Wow! So did mainline and Rouge operate each others B767s and A319s?

As stated the pilot group is not seperate. But it was a seperate eqipment bid whether Rouge 767 or mainline 767, and same for 319..etc. So pilots who were at Rouge would have the chance to slot back in at mainline depending on their seniority. Some were very senior and chose the Rouge flying, and therefore could easily slot back in because of good seniority.
For cabin crew there is a different contract but one master seniority list. So Rouge cabin crew can transfer over to mainline with certain restrictions and conditions. But the most senior of all Rouge hired cabin crew would be about 56% on the master list.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:
 
Skyblue39
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:34 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:25 pm

Thomaas wrote:
Skyblue39 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
I wonder where is AC planning to get all that extra A330 capacity from, even with the recent A330 deliveries. They will need 7.5 frames to operate BCN, ATH, LIS, and MAN. My guess is that they'll cancel YUL-TLS and the extra frequencies on YYZ/YUL-CDG and YUL-BRU, as well as YVR-CDG/ZRH/DUB with YUL-DUB going to the MAX.


Both YVR-DUB and YUL-DUB will be on the 787, not the A330 or MAX.

AC can easily put those 787s on A330 routes, which then frees up the A330s to do the new flying. I simply don’t see how AC can maintain all of its current routes and frequencies while also adding 6 daily flights (+ 1 x 5 times a week) in peak summer season.


They could. But you’re just guessing. All routes are
Available for sale on the Air Canada website. So I guess they know something that you don’t.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4813
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:22 pm

codyul wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Wow! So did mainline and Rouge operate each others B767s and A319s?

As stated the pilot group is not seperate. But it was a seperate eqipment bid whether Rouge 767 or mainline 767, and same for 319..etc. So pilots who were at Rouge would have the chance to slot back in at mainline depending on their seniority. Some were very senior and chose the Rouge flying, and therefore could easily slot back in because of good seniority.
For cabin crew there is a different contract but one master seniority list. So Rouge cabin crew can transfer over to mainline with certain restrictions and conditions. But the most senior of all Rouge hired cabin crew would be about 56% on the master list.

Oh I see that’s clear now!
 
EddieDude
Posts: 7048
Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:19 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 7:31 pm

Question: Rouge is disappearing altogether? What about the Rouge narrowbody aircraft and routes? Thanks!
Upcoming flights:
April/May: AM MEX-SCL 788 (J), AM EZE-MEX 789 (J).
 
Bhoy
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 1:50 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Fri Jul 24, 2020 8:36 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Air Canada Rouge is a different company from mainline and crew don’t cross fleet. Were all the Rouge B767 pilots let go?

Also I note no sign of Glasgow coming back? Surely a MAX route?

Glasgow’s already on sale for next summer on aircanada.com (albeit just for a six week season), listed as a Rouge 763...

However, Transat operate YYZ-GLA year round, due to restart initially twice a week after covid on the neo from tomorrow. Depending when (if?) Transat/AC are integrated, expect to see those flights getting married up...
 
tofur
Topic Author
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:51 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Sun Jul 26, 2020 4:27 am

EddieDude wrote:
Question: Rouge is disappearing altogether? What about the Rouge narrowbody aircraft and routes? Thanks!


Air Canada stated a few months ago that going forward, Rouge would be a narrowbody operation only. That was before the industry was in this state of flux, and there are so many variables now.
 
runway23
Posts: 2335
Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 2:12 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Sun Jul 26, 2020 8:47 am

Skyblue39 wrote:

They could. But you’re just guessing. All routes are
Available for sale on the Air Canada website. So I guess they know something that you don’t.


Just because it is published doesn’t mean it will fly.

The August intl schedule was finalized a week or so ago, September still to be done.

May/June 2021 is light years away in the current environment, a lot can happen. AC don’t know yet if they will have the 737Max back in service by next summer either.

In all probability AC has just opened sales in the hope that people might already book so as to prop up their cashflow and see where there might be some demand. It’s also a better sell/feels good for those who take vouchers to see the route they want to fly is already published next year.
 
User001
Posts: 1077
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 2:18 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:57 am

Skyblue39 wrote:
Thomaas wrote:
I wonder where is AC planning to get all that extra A330 capacity from, even with the recent A330 deliveries. They will need 7.5 frames to operate BCN, ATH, LIS, and MAN. My guess is that they'll cancel YUL-TLS and the extra frequencies on YYZ/YUL-CDG and YUL-BRU, as well as YVR-CDG/ZRH/DUB with YUL-DUB going to the MAX.


Both YVR-DUB and YUL-DUB will be on the 787, not the A330 or MAX.


DUB-YUL now changed to the B73M for S21
 
AA100
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:57 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:04 am

SueD wrote:
DLHAM wrote:
by738 wrote:
Wonder why some still listed as 763 when they're reported as all grounded. More changes pending I suspect. Presume TS merger will play its part.


If you ask me I do not see a lot of these "767 routes" coming back in 2021.


Which one do you think won’t return

Europe
Athens - short season cruise contracts and tourist related
Barcelona - ditto above
Edinburgh - Tourist and some VFR traffic one of Rouges best performers
Manchester - always good albeit short seasonal; good loads with quite high fares I might add .
Lisbon - More cruise and some VFR traffic and a little amont of codeshare potential with TAP.

South America
Bogotá - plenty VFR and freight
Lima - as above plus some tourist traffic.

Were pretty much the core long haul of Rouge, the European routes were also strong and if the merger is completed with Air Transat combined forces may actually reduce capacity whilst increasing the product quality; we shall see.

Which are the weak ones In your opinion ?


But that is the whole point. What you list might not be true anymore. We all have to get out of this mindset that things will go back to the way they were pre-COVID. What cruise traffic will BCN/ATH/LIS sustain in S21? Do you really think cruises will be a thing in 2021 - let alone large international cruises with intercontinental flying attached? No way, and that is assuming cruise companies are still alive.

Will we really see VFR traffic come back the way it once was? High ticket prices, complicated health screening and government travel restrictions will prevent the resurgence of that demand for some time.

The point is we don't know. Rouge doesn't know. On the flip side, pandemic could be at bay, Europe could have the virus under control and there could be a huge influx of Canadians wanting to visit Europe. ( I doubt it but it's possible).
 
RvA
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:37 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:06 pm

Agreed. Nobody knows. With things like Spain opening up for British tourists, then a sudden introduction of quarantine rules back in the UK etc. happening and likely becoming more prevalent things will keep getting shaken up and people’s confidence especially for long haul travel will take a good while to come back.
 
A388
Posts: 7987
Joined: Mon May 21, 2001 3:48 am

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:44 pm

What about Rouge flights to the Caribbean? In my case I'm interesting to see what AC will do with their CUR flights?

A388
 
codyul
Posts: 109
Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:43 pm

Re: Air Canada Schedules Rouge Replacement Flights For 2021

Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:03 pm

A388 wrote:
What about Rouge flights to the Caribbean? In my case I'm interesting to see what AC will do with their CUR flights?

A388

The only thing we have to keep in mind is that Rouge likely won't reappear until AC returns to 55% of normal flying. If they did they would have to spend force cabin crew to transfer from mainline to Rouge and have to pay training for them. It would be an expense that would not make much sense, if my thinking is correct.
YUL PNC :weightlifter:

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos