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MIflyer12
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:28 pm

Scarebus34 wrote:
Don't hold your breath waiting for any major to declare bankruptcy. It's not going to happen.


I can't hold my breath for 18 months, but I think there's a pretty good chance that within that time one or more of the U.S. big 10 carriers will file for Ch 11. I can't imagine legislation approving another $50 Billion in grant/loan aid - at least not with a Republican Senate and Republican President.

At some point somebody's going to run out of liquidity. At some point execs are going to recognize that debt has been run up so high that all earnings for the next decade will go to debt service, not shareholders, such that shareholders have effectively been wiped out already.
 
F9Animal
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Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:42 pm

Antarius wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
Subodh has a great track record. ATA, Air Jamaica, Jet Airways and now Express Jet.


He was at Commutair too!

Given his track record, was he involved in SABENA too?


In other words, he is the one that is put in to put the company out if it's misery it sounds like. It's obvious that is what he is known for, and put in to do. If you see him arrive at your company, my suggestion is to get scrambling right away, because it's about to get nasty.

I am willing to bet the shareholders of Expressjet brought him in to squeeze as much blood as he could before pulling the plug.

Very sad. Express Jet was once a gem, and now it appears they are going to fade away. My deepest sympathy for the workers.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:26 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
No guarantees, but it seems like historically the wholly-owned carriers are the ones to take it in the shorts during industry downturns. It's far easier to shrink or eliminate a wholly-owned like Comair or ExpressJet than an independent company that will take you to court if you try to breach their CPA. Trans States and Compass had the unfortunate combination of close in contract expirations and terrible ownership/management heading into this crisis. GoJet has the same ownership problem, plus likely higher overhead with the other two TSH airlines gone, and they fly a premium configured CRJ in a market that suddenly has no premium demand.

I'd rather be at SkyWest or Republic right now than at any of the AA wholly-owned carriers. Endeavor seems relatively safe only because DL has already rationalized their regional feed, though I could see them having some flying trimmed if DL needs to shift block hours to SkyWest or Republic to meet CPA minimums. CommutAir won this round, but it still isn't clear where United is headed long term with both Air Wisconsin and SkyWest offering 50-seat lift.


Good point about the mainline-owned regionals. I remember Delta's evisceration of Comair and AA slashing American Eagle to bits (Envoy being the surviving portion). If I were working for Horizon Air and this "Hunger Games" trend pitting regionals against each other catches fire, I'd be nervous, since airlines tend to copy cost-cutting strategies.

Since the 50-seater jets, E145's and CRJ100/200's are now aging into their 20's (all with very high cycles) and with no modern replacement, the 50-seat jet's days of service are waning fast. I still think the Big 3 will be visiting bankruptcy court in the foreseeable future and will use their "too big to fail" and a pro-corporate judicial system to void their current pilot contracts and their highly-restrictive scope clauses. Look for the E175E2 (the only new-gen regional jet currently available) to finally be declared "scope-compliant" in the new, post-BK contracts and the capacity limit pushed up to 80 seats.


Bankruptcy does not give company free reign to void an entire contract nor does it give them free reign to rewrite entire sections.

Previous SCOPE relaxations happened during bankruptcy but actually happened outside the courts. United’s big SCOPE relaxation was prior to bankruptcy in 2003 and was done to save the pensions......which went in Bankruptcy anyway


No, Ch 11 doesn't give the carrier the unrestricted right to void labor contracts. Judges must approve waivers under Section 1113. There are carrier requests that have been rejected in the past two decades, so a motion doesn't lead automatically to termination.

On the other side, Ch 11 would allow termination of a CPA contract.[/quote]


Not to turn this into a political discusssion, but back in the past airline downturns the Federal Bankruptcy Court System was mostly manned with labor-friendly justices. During the past four years the Trump Administration has been packing these federal courts with corporate-friendly justices, especially in the bankruptcy court system that Trump himself has used numerous times in the past. If the airlines want to dump their CPA's in BK court, these newly-minted justices will not stand in their way.

For those pontificating that no major airline will go to BK court as a result of this crisis, you are just whistling in the dark. The Big 3 are bleeding cash at an unsustainable rate, have way more capacity than foreseeable demand and have to service substantial finance and lease obligations that they are struggling to meet. I just can't see how they can avoid BK court under these pressures. So keep an eye on the BK court dockets come October...
 
stbycleared
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:47 pm

Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:03 pm

F9Animal wrote:
Antarius wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
Subodh has a great track record. ATA, Air Jamaica, Jet Airways and now Express Jet.


He was at Commutair too!

Given his track record, was he involved in SABENA too?


In other words, he is the one that is put in to put the company out if it's misery it sounds like. It's obvious that is what he is known for, and put in to do. If you see him arrive at your company, my suggestion is to get scrambling right away, because it's about to get nasty.

I am willing to bet the shareholders of Expressjet brought him in to squeeze as much blood as he could before pulling the plug.

Very sad. Express Jet was once a gem, and now it appears they are going to fade away. My deepest sympathy for the workers.


He was the KAir portion of ManaAir, or 51% owner, so I doubt he invested to shut down the airline. From my experience, his leadership style might have a lot to do with his record.
 
jfern022
Posts: 183
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:12 am

Scarebus34 wrote:
eugdjinn wrote:

Once again, the larger object lesson is to never, never trust United if you work for a contractor who is beholden to UAL. Never.

Or DL who did ComAir dirty and shut down Compass. Or American who dropped Air Wisconsin like a hot potato. It’s just all a part of the regional game.


Let’s remember OH dug their own hole.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:13 am

Alias1024 wrote:
CommutAir won this round, but it still isn't clear where United is headed long term with both Air Wisconsin and SkyWest offering 50-seat lift.


It sounds like GoJet are in a financial hole and may not make it. They've said that flying 28 boutique aircraft is not a viable business model, but it is far from clear what other flying they could conceivably pick up at any of the US3. Probably none, so it seems like they are destined to fade away.

SkyWest apparently aren't interested in the CRJ550 flying as United allegedly will only pay 50 seater rates for what is really a 70 seater but with one less flight attendant. I could see Whisky, though, being desperate enough to hold onto whatever flying they can get that they will accept those terms.

I therefore wouldn't be shocked to see ZW take over the CRJ550 flying and 50 seaters simplified to just C5 in EWR, IAD (and ORD?) and OO in IAH, DEN, SFO and LAX.
Last edited by RyanairGuru on Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
dstblj52
Topic Author
Posts: 499
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:16 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
CommutAir won this round, but it still isn't clear where United is headed long term with both Air Wisconsin and SkyWest offering 50-seat lift.


It sounds like GoJet are in a financial hole and may not make it. They've said that flying 28 boutique aircraft is not a viable business model, but it is far from clear what other flying they could conceivably pick up at any of the US3. Probably none, so it seems like they are destined to fade away.

SkyWest apparently aren't interested in the CRJ550 flying as United allegedly will only pay 50 seater rates for what is really a 70 seater but with one less flight attendant. I could see Whisky, though, being desperate enough to hold onto flying that they will accept those terms.

I therefore wouldn't be shocked to see ZW take over the CRJ550 flying and 50 seaters simplified to just C5 in EWR, IAD (and ORD?) and OO in IAH, DEN, SFO and LAX.

Mesa might also be also go after the flying JO is always interested in growing
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 256
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:27 am

dstblj52 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
Alias1024 wrote:
CommutAir won this round, but it still isn't clear where United is headed long term with both Air Wisconsin and SkyWest offering 50-seat lift.


It sounds like GoJet are in a financial hole and may not make it. They've said that flying 28 boutique aircraft is not a viable business model, but it is far from clear what other flying they could conceivably pick up at any of the US3. Probably none, so it seems like they are destined to fade away.

SkyWest apparently aren't interested in the CRJ550 flying as United allegedly will only pay 50 seater rates for what is really a 70 seater but with one less flight attendant. I could see Whisky, though, being desperate enough to hold onto flying that they will accept those terms.

I therefore wouldn't be shocked to see ZW take over the CRJ550 flying and 50 seaters simplified to just C5 in EWR, IAD (and ORD?) and OO in IAH, DEN, SFO and LAX.

Mesa might also be also go after the flying JO is always interested in growing

Yes, and Mesa already has CRJ7 infrastructure and trained pilots, and 20 of the jets already on property, just need the cabin gutted. Will come down to the almighty dollar, and JO can compete.
It needs an EWR base and I gather SkyWest doesn’t have much of an interest in it. They did LGA as quickly as possible for DCI before they could move jets back west.
 
KlimaBXsst
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:27 am

An excellent lesson for any airline who is asked to become “a sole provider,” for any of the big 3 mainline carriers in the US.

DO NOT invest any more time than you must at any airline who flies in the colors of someone else.

These airlines doing business as “so so big 3 airlines” have no real identity and thus no real future. RUN AWAY fast, new hires... and even while serving time at the regionals, make sure the regional is in your own backyard part of the world you wish to be in.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
kabq737
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:16 pm

N766UA wrote:
What a shame. Expressjet was obviously going to be more expensive, but they're a much better, more experienced employee group. Commutair is so JV by comparison. All UAL cares about is the bottom line, though, and it shows in their Express roster.


Do they have any other choice right now? As much as I feel for the great folks at Expressjet I don’t blame UA one bit. In the current climate even the big carriers are fighting with everything they have to survive. Their best bet at doing that is to cut costs in every imaginable way so that they can just ride this out. Unfortunately operating in the cheapest possible way (or contracting someone else to operate in the cheapest possible way for you) makes great sense right now.
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14550
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:57 pm

FLALEFTY wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:

Good point about the mainline-owned regionals. I remember Delta's evisceration of Comair and AA slashing American Eagle to bits (Envoy being the surviving portion). If I were working for Horizon Air and this "Hunger Games" trend pitting regionals against each other catches fire, I'd be nervous, since airlines tend to copy cost-cutting strategies.

Since the 50-seater jets, E145's and CRJ100/200's are now aging into their 20's (all with very high cycles) and with no modern replacement, the 50-seat jet's days of service are waning fast. I still think the Big 3 will be visiting bankruptcy court in the foreseeable future and will use their "too big to fail" and a pro-corporate judicial system to void their current pilot contracts and their highly-restrictive scope clauses. Look for the E175E2 (the only new-gen regional jet currently available) to finally be declared "scope-compliant" in the new, post-BK contracts and the capacity limit pushed up to 80 seats.

Bankruptcy does not give company free reign to void an entire contract nor does it give them free reign to rewrite entire sections.

Previous SCOPE relaxations happened during bankruptcy but actually happened outside the courts. United’s big SCOPE relaxation was prior to bankruptcy in 2003 and was done to save the pensions......which went in Bankruptcy anyway


No, Ch 11 doesn't give the carrier the unrestricted right to void labor contracts. Judges must approve waivers under Section 1113. There are carrier requests that have been rejected in the past two decades, so a motion doesn't lead automatically to termination.

On the other side, Ch 11 would allow termination of a CPA contract.


Not to turn this into a political discusssion, but back in the past airline downturns the Federal Bankruptcy Court System was mostly manned with labor-friendly justices. During the past four years the Trump Administration has been packing these federal courts with corporate-friendly justices, especially in the bankruptcy court system that Trump himself has used numerous times in the past. If the airlines want to dump their CPA's in BK court, these newly-minted justices will not stand in their way.

For those pontificating that no major airline will go to BK court as a result of this crisis, you are just whistling in the dark. The Big 3 are bleeding cash at an unsustainable rate, have way more capacity than foreseeable demand and have to service substantial finance and lease obligations that they are struggling to meet. I just can't see how they can avoid BK court under these pressures. So keep an eye on the BK court dockets come October...


Bankruptcy judges are Article I, not Article III. The president has nothing direct to do with their appointment.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
airtran737
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:53 pm

Very sad to see XJT tossed aside for C5. Yes, XJT has a much higher cost due to pilot longevity, but they also land in the runway each time. C5 hasn’t quite mastered that task.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
CATIIIevery5yrs
Posts: 168
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:13 pm

airtran737 wrote:
Very sad to see XJT tossed aside for C5. Yes, XJT has a much higher cost due to pilot longevity, but they also land in the runway each time. C5 hasn’t quite mastered that task.


https://aviation-safety.net/database/re ... 20030106-0

I mean I guess they landed on the runway though...
 
FlyingElvii
Posts: 939
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:05 pm

jfern022 wrote:
Scarebus34 wrote:
eugdjinn wrote:

Once again, the larger object lesson is to never, never trust United if you work for a contractor who is beholden to UAL. Never.

Or DL who did ComAir dirty and shut down Compass. Or American who dropped Air Wisconsin like a hot potato. It’s just all a part of the regional game.


Let’s remember OH dug their own hole.

The OH and ACA debacles are a very large part of the reason the regional systems are set up the way they are today.

Both airlines had distinct Stand-alone branding, and operated Largely as independents. Most routes were flown at-risk.
Both led to management and pilot groups developing egos bigger than their wallets. The aftermath brought us the push for single point “ seamless” branding, with the regionals basically becoming ACMI’s, and with the major controlling everything, up to and including scheduling. No more independent branding that could become a competitive threat down the road.

As we can see with AA, that is again changing, due to current reality.
The AA code-share/ Interline deals with AS, B6, Contour, etc. are a leading indicator, IMHO. Expanded Brand offerings, on someone else’s Dime. No cost for the airplane, personnel, etc, just incremental revenue from the connections, as it used to be. AA gets to expand offerings and revenue, with no real cash investment.

This likely the future, especially for small and medium cities. “XYZ Airways, operating as American connection”. They keep any OD revenue, and formula split the connection revenue, with added costs depending on the level of mother’s involvement. (Res systems, GS staffing, Marketing, etc.)
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:08 pm

TonyClifton wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:

It sounds like GoJet are in a financial hole and may not make it. They've said that flying 28 boutique aircraft is not a viable business model, but it is far from clear what other flying they could conceivably pick up at any of the US3. Probably none, so it seems like they are destined to fade away.

SkyWest apparently aren't interested in the CRJ550 flying as United allegedly will only pay 50 seater rates for what is really a 70 seater but with one less flight attendant. I could see Whisky, though, being desperate enough to hold onto flying that they will accept those terms.

I therefore wouldn't be shocked to see ZW take over the CRJ550 flying and 50 seaters simplified to just C5 in EWR, IAD (and ORD?) and OO in IAH, DEN, SFO and LAX.

Mesa might also be also go after the flying JO is always interested in growing

Yes, and Mesa already has CRJ7 infrastructure and trained pilots, and 20 of the jets already on property, just need the cabin gutted. Will come down to the almighty dollar, and JO can compete.
It needs an EWR base and I gather SkyWest doesn’t have much of an interest in it. They did LGA as quickly as possible for DCI before they could move jets back west.

Mesa has enough problems maintaining reliability in IAD, let alone adding yet another base 1900 miles away from home.
 
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FLALEFTY
Posts: 797
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:25 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

No, Ch 11 doesn't give the carrier the unrestricted right to void labor contracts. Judges must approve waivers under Section 1113. There are carrier requests that have been rejected in the past two decades, so a motion doesn't lead automatically to termination.

On the other side, Ch 11 would allow termination of a CPA contract.


Not to turn this into a political discusssion, but back in the past airline downturns the Federal Bankruptcy Court System was mostly manned with labor-friendly justices. During the past four years the Trump Administration has been packing these federal courts with corporate-friendly justices, especially in the bankruptcy court system that Trump himself has used numerous times in the past. If the airlines want to dump their CPA's in BK court, these newly-minted justices will not stand in their way.

For those pontificating that no major airline will go to BK court as a result of this crisis, you are just whistling in the dark. The Big 3 are bleeding cash at an unsustainable rate, have way more capacity than foreseeable demand and have to service substantial finance and lease obligations that they are struggling to meet. I just can't see how they can avoid BK court under these pressures. So keep an eye on the BK court dockets come October...


Bankruptcy judges are Article I, not Article III. The president has nothing direct to do with their appointment.


https://www.uscourts.gov/faqs-federal-judges

While not direct administration appointees, the direct judicial appointees of the administration (the Court of Appeals) do decide who should sit on the BK court benches. This functions in a similar way that a multi-tiered corporation would operate. If the Court of Appeals has marching orders to determine which appointees meet administration criteria, then the influence from the top is still there.
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:12 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
Mesa might also be also go after the flying JO is always interested in growing

Yes, and Mesa already has CRJ7 infrastructure and trained pilots, and 20 of the jets already on property, just need the cabin gutted. Will come down to the almighty dollar, and JO can compete.
It needs an EWR base and I gather SkyWest doesn’t have much of an interest in it. They did LGA as quickly as possible for DCI before they could move jets back west.

Mesa has enough problems maintaining reliability in IAD, let alone adding yet another base 1900 miles away from home.

Cheap > Reliable right now. AWAC has successfully managed NYC before though so I won’t count them out.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2602
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:18 am

TonyClifton wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
Yes, and Mesa already has CRJ7 infrastructure and trained pilots, and 20 of the jets already on property, just need the cabin gutted. Will come down to the almighty dollar, and JO can compete.
It needs an EWR base and I gather SkyWest doesn’t have much of an interest in it. They did LGA as quickly as possible for DCI before they could move jets back west.

Mesa has enough problems maintaining reliability in IAD, let alone adding yet another base 1900 miles away from home.

Cheap > Reliable right now. AWAC has successfully managed NYC before though so I won’t count them out.


There is a price to put on reliability right now - particularly with what UA views as a premium product. If you burn whatever premium clientele you are currently flying in this environment - that hurts that much more.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:24 am

alasizon wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
FlyingElvii wrote:
Mesa has enough problems maintaining reliability in IAD, let alone adding yet another base 1900 miles away from home.

Cheap > Reliable right now. AWAC has successfully managed NYC before though so I won’t count them out.


There is a price to put on reliability right now - particularly with what UA views as a premium product. If you burn whatever premium clientele you are currently flying in this environment - that hurts that much more.

Of course, but staffing won’t be an issue. Mesa, or whomever gets the planes, will be able to stack reserves like cordwood. Pre-COVID not so much.
 
dstblj52
Topic Author
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:26 am

TonyClifton wrote:
alasizon wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
Cheap > Reliable right now. AWAC has successfully managed NYC before though so I won’t count them out.


There is a price to put on reliability right now - particularly with what UA views as a premium product. If you burn whatever premium clientele you are currently flying in this environment - that hurts that much more.

Of course, but staffing won’t be an issue. Mesa, or whomever gets the planes, will be able to stack reserves like cordwood. Pre-COVID not so much.

Plenty of reserves and plenty of space aircraft in these conditions even Mesa should be reliable enough to manage.
 
alasizon
Posts: 2602
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:29 am

dstblj52 wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
alasizon wrote:

There is a price to put on reliability right now - particularly with what UA views as a premium product. If you burn whatever premium clientele you are currently flying in this environment - that hurts that much more.

Of course, but staffing won’t be an issue. Mesa, or whomever gets the planes, will be able to stack reserves like cordwood. Pre-COVID not so much.

Plenty of reserves and plenty of space aircraft in these conditions even Mesa should be reliable enough to manage.


The problem is it isn't just these conditions that UA has to consider when awarding contracts - it is the likelihood that the carrier can continue to support the flying come a recovery. Supporting flying and Mesa don't go well together in the same sentence.
Airport (noun) - A construction site which airplanes tend to frequent
 
dstblj52
Topic Author
Posts: 499
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:32 am

alasizon wrote:
dstblj52 wrote:
TonyClifton wrote:
Of course, but staffing won’t be an issue. Mesa, or whomever gets the planes, will be able to stack reserves like cordwood. Pre-COVID not so much.

Plenty of reserves and plenty of space aircraft in these conditions even Mesa should be reliable enough to manage.


The problem is it isn't just these conditions that UA has to consider when awarding contracts - it is the likelihood that the carrier can continue to support the flying come a recovery. Supporting flying and Mesa don't go well together in the same sentence.

Neither does gojet but that didn't stop them either but gojet has another huge liability they continuously lose lawsuits for illegal treatment of employees and if the media ever went running for that it would look terrible for whomever partners with them.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14550
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:03 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
[/color]

Not to turn this into a political discusssion, but back in the past airline downturns the Federal Bankruptcy Court System was mostly manned with labor-friendly justices. During the past four years the Trump Administration has been packing these federal courts with corporate-friendly justices, especially in the bankruptcy court system that Trump himself has used numerous times in the past. If the airlines want to dump their CPA's in BK court, these newly-minted justices will not stand in their way.

For those pontificating that no major airline will go to BK court as a result of this crisis, you are just whistling in the dark. The Big 3 are bleeding cash at an unsustainable rate, have way more capacity than foreseeable demand and have to service substantial finance and lease obligations that they are struggling to meet. I just can't see how they can avoid BK court under these pressures. So keep an eye on the BK court dockets come October...


Bankruptcy judges are Article I, not Article III. The president has nothing direct to do with their appointment.


https://www.uscourts.gov/faqs-federal-judges

While not direct administration appointees, the direct judicial appointees of the administration (the Court of Appeals) do decide who should sit on the BK court benches. This functions in a similar way that a multi-tiered corporation would operate. If the Court of Appeals has marching orders to determine which appointees meet administration criteria, then the influence from the top is still there.


I realize conspiracy theories are all the rage these days, but you’d be hard pressed to find a lot of Trump influence in the bankruptcy court ranks. For one thing, few of the courts of appeal are majority Trump-appointed, and with the fourteen-year terms and the fairly technical nature of the job there’s not a lot of turnover or political bend. Much different from recent appointments to Article III courts.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
IAH901RT
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:06 am

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:38 am

This was strictly a business decision. Right now, UAL is doing everything they can to cut their "daily cash burn." The decision had nothing to do with reliability, performance or who was the better choice to run an operation. I'm sure that UAL knows they will have to take some hits on performance and reliability with this decision but it is what will save them the most money for now. My only question is does anyone know if Mana Air or KAir own any part of C5?
 
TonyClifton
Posts: 256
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 3:19 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:51 am

IAH901RT wrote:
This was strictly a business decision. Right now, UAL is doing everything they can to cut their "daily cash burn." The decision had nothing to do with reliability, performance or who was the better choice to run an operation. I'm sure that UAL knows they will have to take some hits on performance and reliability with this decision but it is what will save them the most money for now. My only question is does anyone know if Mana Air or KAir own any part of C5?

United directly owns 40% of CommutAir, the rest Champlain Enterprises as far as I know.
 
dstblj52
Topic Author
Posts: 499
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:38 pm

Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:40 am

flight152 wrote:
eugdjinn wrote:
(I think it's a safe bet that C5 will have a hiring event for mechanics in CLE real soon, and likely open an MX base there, in a hangar rented by UA perhaps?)


Talk about making no sense. Why would C5 want to open a maintenance base in a city which they have no flying?? There is zero E145 flying in the UA CLE schedule.

To hire the former Express jet mechanics again to keep the skilled people around and to avoid having to build that same talent somewhere else.
 
zuckie13
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:11 pm

dstblj52 wrote:
flight152 wrote:
eugdjinn wrote:
(I think it's a safe bet that C5 will have a hiring event for mechanics in CLE real soon, and likely open an MX base there, in a hangar rented by UA perhaps?)


Talk about making no sense. Why would C5 want to open a maintenance base in a city which they have no flying?? There is zero E145 flying in the UA CLE schedule.

To hire the former Express jet mechanics again to keep the skilled people around and to avoid having to build that same talent somewhere else.


If they really need some of those mechanics, they will probably pay to relocate them before opening that as a base.
 
FlyHossD
Posts: 2100
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:12 pm

IAH901RT wrote:
This was strictly a business decision. Right now, UAL is doing everything they can to cut their "daily cash burn." The decision had nothing to do with reliability, performance or who was the better choice to run an operation. I'm sure that UAL knows they will have to take some hits on performance and reliability with this decision but it is what will save them the most money for now...


I hope UAL reviewed C5's record on safety, too. Do you remember what Smisek said to Congress about the Colgan Q400 tragedy?

I've been on EV flights, but never C5. Last year's C5 accident in Maine didn't make any more confident in C5: https://www.avherald.com/h?article=4c4f9a68&opt=0
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
DiamondFlyer
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:44 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
IAH901RT wrote:
This was strictly a business decision. Right now, UAL is doing everything they can to cut their "daily cash burn." The decision had nothing to do with reliability, performance or who was the better choice to run an operation. I'm sure that UAL knows they will have to take some hits on performance and reliability with this decision but it is what will save them the most money for now...


I hope UAL reviewed C5's record on safety, too. Do you remember what Smisek said to Congress about the Colgan Q400 tragedy?

I've been on EV flights, but never C5. Last year's C5 accident in Maine didn't make any more confident in C5: https://www.avherald.com/h?article=4c4f9a68&opt=0



All regionals have been scraping the bottom of the barrel for the last few years, to staff the planes. That’s going to improve, with no hiring and people getting more experience for the short term future. Long term, it probably makes the shortage worse, if student loan credit dries up
From my cold, dead hands
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14550
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 2:52 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
IAH901RT wrote:
This was strictly a business decision. Right now, UAL is doing everything they can to cut their "daily cash burn." The decision had nothing to do with reliability, performance or who was the better choice to run an operation. I'm sure that UAL knows they will have to take some hits on performance and reliability with this decision but it is what will save them the most money for now...


I hope UAL reviewed C5's record on safety, too. Do you remember what Smisek said to Congress about the Colgan Q400 tragedy?

I've been on EV flights, but never C5. Last year's C5 accident in Maine didn't make any more confident in C5: https://www.avherald.com/h?article=4c4f9a68&opt=0


I’m confused by your second paragraph. Doesn’t any accident make you less confident in the involved carrier’s safety? I mean, by the same logic shouldn’t we question UA’s safety because of the 737 they trashed in the snow at DEN a decade ago or so, an accident that IIRC was pretty much exclusively a result of pilot error?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
UA777EWRTLV
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:30 pm

Will CommutAir have enough airplanes to work the operation UA will ask of it? Even in a covid19 era UA, 37 erj-145’s spread across several hubs doesn’t sound like a lot. Will they transfer a handful over from Expressjet? Who owns Expressjet and CommutAir’s airplanes, UA or the respective regional carriers themselves? Or are they leased?
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:44 pm

UA777EWRTLV wrote:
Will CommutAir have enough airplanes to work the operation UA will ask of it? Even in a covid19 era UA, 37 erj-145’s spread across several hubs doesn’t sound like a lot. Will they transfer a handful over from Expressjet? Who owns Expressjet and CommutAir’s airplanes, UA or the respective regional carriers themselves? Or are they leased?


United owns all the 145s. If they need more they will I park them. Right now the 145s will probably be flown at IAD, EWR and CLE. United stayed 50 seat flying is going to shrink considerably even when things are better than they are now.
 
Scarebus34
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:02 pm

Most people here forget that United owns 40% of CommutAir - they know what they are getting. They will also have their finger on the operation.
 
PowerJet
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.
 
toltommy
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:07 pm

PowerJet wrote:
Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.


I'm sorry, that's just an ignorant statement. Name a US carrier that hasn't had an accident. Even Expressjet and United themselves have had accidents. Remember that you have a greater statistical chance of being in an accident on your way to the airport than you do on a flight.
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PowerJet
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:31 pm

toltommy wrote:
PowerJet wrote:
Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.


I'm sorry, that's just an ignorant statement. Name a US carrier that hasn't had an accident. Even Expressjet and United themselves have had accidents. Remember that you have a greater statistical chance of being in an accident on your way to the airport than you do on a flight.


I Certainly do NOT think that is an ignorant statement. ExpressJet at one time flew nearly 5,000 flights daily. It was one of the largest airlines in the world based on departures The ONLY hull loss accident ExpressJet had was in the 90's, while they were TRAINING on it and that aircraft is even still being used as an emergency trainer in Houston.
 
toltommy
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:37 pm

PowerJet wrote:
I Certainly do NOT think that is an ignorant statement. ExpressJet at one time flew nearly 5,000 flights daily. It was one of the largest airlines in the world based on departures The ONLY hull loss accident ExpressJet had was in the 90's, while they were TRAINING on it and that aircraft is even still being used as an emergency trainer in Houston.


I stand by my statement. And you are being selective in what you choose to include. Today's Expressjet is made up of multiple carriers including ASA and Britt. Both of whom had substantial accidents.
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QueenoftheSkies
Posts: 215
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Re: The whipsaw is starting back up

Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:55 pm

11C wrote:
How many times has United made this same announcement? Obviously the livelihoods of the affected carriers employees don’t mean squat. Ask anyone who was at ACA how this goes. I get that the current situation dictates changes, but the ‘Hunger Games’ style of choosing the surviving carrier is no less disgraceful.


They can’t even protect their very own mainline employees. You think they care much about these non-UA people? HA!
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:07 pm

PowerJet wrote:
toltommy wrote:
PowerJet wrote:
Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.


I'm sorry, that's just an ignorant statement. Name a US carrier that hasn't had an accident. Even Expressjet and United themselves have had accidents. Remember that you have a greater statistical chance of being in an accident on your way to the airport than you do on a flight.


I Certainly do NOT think that is an ignorant statement. ExpressJet at one time flew nearly 5,000 flights daily. It was one of the largest airlines in the world based on departures The ONLY hull loss accident ExpressJet had was in the 90's, while they were TRAINING on it and that aircraft is even still being used as an emergency trainer in Houston.


You have a very short memory. Just out of curiosity what airlines do you fly on?
 
PowerJet
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:14 pm

toltommy wrote:
PowerJet wrote:
I Certainly do NOT think that is an ignorant statement. ExpressJet at one time flew nearly 5,000 flights daily. It was one of the largest airlines in the world based on departures The ONLY hull loss accident ExpressJet had was in the 90's, while they were TRAINING on it and that aircraft is even still being used as an emergency trainer in Houston.


I stand by my statement. And you are being selective in what you choose to include. Today's Expressjet is made up of multiple carriers including ASA and Britt. Both of whom had substantial accidents.


Sure, if you wish to go all the way back to every accident at every airline that came together to make these current airlines, then yes. However, I'm talking about this current airline, which only flew Embraer jets and later Canadair jets, under its current name, and another that transitioned from propeller planes to ERJ-145s. I once flew on a CommutAir 145, and for whatever reason, they left the flaps down the entire flight. The flight between Newark and Washington D.C. took nearly 2 hours. I will forever say this wasn't the best decision by United to keep a less experienced carrier to do ALL their ERJ flying
 
JHCRJ700
Posts: 237
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:55 pm

PowerJet wrote:
toltommy wrote:
PowerJet wrote:
I Certainly do NOT think that is an ignorant statement. ExpressJet at one time flew nearly 5,000 flights daily. It was one of the largest airlines in the world based on departures The ONLY hull loss accident ExpressJet had was in the 90's, while they were TRAINING on it and that aircraft is even still being used as an emergency trainer in Houston.


I stand by my statement. And you are being selective in what you choose to include. Today's Expressjet is made up of multiple carriers including ASA and Britt. Both of whom had substantial accidents.


Sure, if you wish to go all the way back to every accident at every airline that came together to make these current airlines, then yes. However, I'm talking about this current airline, which only flew Embraer jets and later Canadair jets, under its current name, and another that transitioned from propeller planes to ERJ-145s. I once flew on a CommutAir 145, and for whatever reason, they left the flaps down the entire flight. The flight between Newark and Washington D.C. took nearly 2 hours. I will forever say this wasn't the best decision by United to keep a less experienced carrier to do ALL their ERJ flying


This was likely done for some maintenance issue. I don't think this speaks to the training or quality of the airline in any way.
It's the power and the glory, It's a war in paradise, A Cinderella story, On a tumble of the dice
 
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lightsaber
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Re: The whipsaw is starting back up

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:58 pm

QueenoftheSkies wrote:
11C wrote:
How many times has United made this same announcement? Obviously the livelihoods of the affected carriers employees don’t mean squat. Ask anyone who was at ACA how this goes. I get that the current situation dictates changes, but the ‘Hunger Games’ style of choosing the surviving carrier is no less disgraceful.


They can’t even protect their very own mainline employees. You think they care much about these non-UA people? HA!

Even worse, because of scope rules, UA must be extra brutal with the regionals to get the flights break even.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
Waterbomber2
Posts: 1339
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Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:18 pm

F9Animal wrote:
Antarius wrote:
alpine1989 wrote:
Subodh has a great track record. ATA, Air Jamaica, Jet Airways and now Express Jet.


He was at Commutair too!

Given his track record, was he involved in SABENA too?


In other words, he is the one that is put in to put the company out if it's misery it sounds like. It's obvious that is what he is known for, and put in to do. If you see him arrive at your company, my suggestion is to get scrambling right away, because it's about to get nasty.

I am willing to bet the shareholders of Expressjet brought him in to squeeze as much blood as he could before pulling the plug.

Very sad. Express Jet was once a gem, and now it appears they are going to fade away. My deepest sympathy for the workers.


An old buddy of mine is left seater for Expressjet.
When I looked at his Facebook page it was as if he had passed away.
Fact is, it's just a job, people.

Things were bad in 2008/2009 too. Pilots furloughed, jets parked in the desert. It's going to get much worse this time but in 5 years most people will be doing ok.
Downturns bring opportunities too.
 
kabq737
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:02 pm

PowerJet wrote:
Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.


Really? What a crazy statement.

Keep in mind that it’s far better for United financially to operate safely than have a crash. A crash of one of their partners that carries their name is probably the last thing they need on their hands. They’re not going to choose an unsafe carrier. Stuff happens but one or two incidents doesn’t characterize a whole organization.
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PowerJet
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:14 pm

kabq737 wrote:
PowerJet wrote:
Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.


Really? What a crazy statement.

Keep in mind that it’s far better for United financially to operate safely than have a crash. A crash of one of their partners that carries their name is probably the last thing they need on their hands. They’re not going to choose an unsafe carrier. Stuff happens but one or two incidents doesn’t characterize a whole organization.


Yes! You're right. One crash doesn't characterize a carriers name in safety. A crash due to carelessness or lack of experience (or both) on the pilots behalf is another story. All i'm saying is that United Could have kept ExpressJet with more than 20 years of experience, or at leased merged the two.
 
kabq737
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Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Mon Aug 03, 2020 4:58 am

PowerJet wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
PowerJet wrote:
Didn't CommutAir Crash? Like where the captain couldn't see the runway, and just put it down anywhere? It amazes me that United would do this, potentially risking lives to save pennies on the dollar.


Really? What a crazy statement.

Keep in mind that it’s far better for United financially to operate safely than have a crash. A crash of one of their partners that carries their name is probably the last thing they need on their hands. They’re not going to choose an unsafe carrier. Stuff happens but one or two incidents doesn’t characterize a whole organization.


Yes! You're right. One crash doesn't characterize a carriers name in safety. A crash due to carelessness or lack of experience (or both) on the pilots behalf is another story. All i'm saying is that United Could have kept ExpressJet with more than 20 years of experience, or at leased merged the two.

Why would they do that? That would be massively expensive, take tons of time and resources, and still result in two disgruntled pilot groups.

When you’re trying to cut costs and you already have an airline sitting in front of you that performs acceptably at very low cost you choose it over the more expensive option every time. Its not a time where UA can be choosy. They’re fighting for their survival as an airline. Commutair is safe, reliable enough, and their costs are low. UA would be crazy to do anything but choose CommutAir.
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toltommy
Posts: 2790
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Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:11 pm

Waterbomber2 wrote:
An old buddy of mine is left seater for Expressjet.
When I looked at his Facebook page it was as if he had passed away.
Fact is, it's just a job, people.



It's also the mortgage payment. And healthcare. Just for starters. 5 years becomes 10 when you lose your house to the bank, etc... Have a modicum of sympathy for your friend.
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EssentialBusDC
Posts: 116
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Re: The whipsaw is starting back up

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:45 pm

lightsaber wrote:
QueenoftheSkies wrote:
11C wrote:
How many times has United made this same announcement? Obviously the livelihoods of the affected carriers employees don’t mean squat. Ask anyone who was at ACA how this goes. I get that the current situation dictates changes, but the ‘Hunger Games’ style of choosing the surviving carrier is no less disgraceful.


They can’t even protect their very own mainline employees. You think they care much about these non-UA people? HA!

Even worse, because of scope rules, UA must be extra brutal with the regionals to get the flights break even.

Lightsaber


This should be good.

Please explain how scope rules relates to break even profitability with the regionals?
 
patdt146
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:49 pm

Re: United potentially moving towards one E145 operator

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:49 pm

toltommy wrote:
Waterbomber2 wrote:
An old buddy of mine is left seater for Expressjet.
When I looked at his Facebook page it was as if he had passed away.
Fact is, it's just a job, people.



It's also the mortgage payment. And healthcare. Just for starters. 5 years becomes 10 when you lose your house to the bank, etc... Have a modicum of sympathy for your friend.


It's such a difficult situation, because people's livelihoods, health, and careers are put on hold. The other situation is that pilots are highly-specialized. If you lose your job at an airline, you can't simply look for the next office job. Bear in mind that pilots incur huge amounts of debt just to get their practically-minimum-wage salaries at the regionals, and so simply finding a new career isn't as easy either. And waiting 5-10 years to be rehired doesn't seem super practical to me either, unfortunately :?
 
southwestguru
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:57 pm

Re: Updated: United selects CommutAir as sole E145 operator

Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:45 pm

Bear in mind that pilots incur huge amounts of debt just to get their practically-minimum-wage salaries at the regionals


I started 4 years ago at my regional at no less than $60k a year. As a captain, I make six figures. Hardly minimum wage.

I know you're trying to be sympathetic, but don't talk about things you know nothing about unless you list a source.

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