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FLALEFTY
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MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:18 pm

Now 60% complete, with construction actually accelerating during the pandemic, MCO's new 15-gate, $2.7B South Terminal is coming along well. The new terminal will be better-suited to handling international flights and will connect to the new Intermodal Terminal (also under construction), which will initially be served by Virgin Trains. The new South Terminal is provisionally projected to open in 2022.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/o ... plocalnews
 
chonetsao
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:23 pm

I can see there is a floor upstairs reserved for international arrivals.

Image
 
FlyingElvii
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:51 pm

Is this where the train will be going, as well?
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:05 pm

FlyingElvii wrote:
Is this where the train will be going, as well?


Here's some summary info on the South Terminal Complex. It looks like the Intermodal Terminal will be just East of the South Terminal.

https://orlandoairports.net/getting-aro ... l-complex/
 
atlflyer
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:34 pm

“At 1.75 million square feet initially, the new terminal is to open in 2022 with 15 gates but has the space and options to expand to 120 gates, or 27 more than at the original terminal.”

1.75 million square feet for 15 gates is extremely spacious. Much better than existing terminals.
 
miaami
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:41 pm

Do we know yet which airlines will be using the new terminal?
 
atlflyer
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:50 pm

miaami wrote:
Do we know yet which airlines will be using the new terminal?


I believe JetBlue will completely relocate to the new terminal.
 
CocoSofia
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:26 pm

Several of the gates are designed for "jumbo and super-jumbo" planes, but it seems by the time the terminal opens, there likely won't be any 747s or A380s flying. It will be spacious for any 777x that drops in, though, I suppose.
 
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STT757
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:45 am

FLALEFTY wrote:
Now 60% complete, with construction actually accelerating during the pandemic, MCO's new 15-gate, $2.7B South Terminal is coming along well. The new terminal will be better-suited to handling international flights and will connect to the new Intermodal Terminal (also under construction), which will initially be served by Virgin Trains. The new South Terminal is provisionally projected to open in 2022.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/o ... plocalnews


No more Virgin, it’s Brightline again.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 am

The real story is how quickly the high speed train corridor is being built along the Beachline to the airport and how spectacular the Train Station attached to the South Terminal is.

Not bad for a state that supposedly doesnt believe in transit vs a state like California that cant complete any of its high speed goals.

The South Terminal complex will be spacious and beautiful compared to the old 1 and 3 Airsides
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:10 am

STT757 wrote:
FLALEFTY wrote:
Now 60% complete, with construction actually accelerating during the pandemic, MCO's new 15-gate, $2.7B South Terminal is coming along well. The new terminal will be better-suited to handling international flights and will connect to the new Intermodal Terminal (also under construction), which will initially be served by Virgin Trains. The new South Terminal is provisionally projected to open in 2022.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/o ... plocalnews


No more Virgin, it’s Brightline again.

https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... ssion=true


I just saw that. Apparently with the Virgin empire in financial trouble, the name on the Brightline trains now has less cachet? As I understood it, Virgin just was a branding deal with some minority-level investment in Brightline.

As for Brightline being a "high-speed", in reality the travel time on Brightline from MCO to downtown MIA is supposed to be 3 1/2 +/- hours, which is roughly the same as driving the same route in a car. And of course, since one is already at MCO, might as well fly down to MIA or FLL, which (adding in the TSA's Kabuki Theater) should take no longer than 2 hours.
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:30 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The real story is how quickly the high speed train corridor is being built along the Beachline to the airport and how spectacular the Train Station attached to the South Terminal is.

Not bad for a state that supposedly doesnt believe in transit vs a state like California that cant complete any of its high speed goals.

The South Terminal complex will be spacious and beautiful compared to the old 1 and 3 Airsides
that is because it is not being built by the state of Florida. Brightline is a private company. They added a second track to the existing Florida East Coast rail line from Miami to Coco Beach and upgraded the signals for 110 mph running. The extension to Orlando is all new, and should be good for 125 mph. They plan to eventually extend this line to Tampa.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
BNAMealer
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:55 am

Someone please educate me.

Why is this terminal necessary?

Was the existing international capacity in the old terminal not sufficient?

Will all international flights move here and the existing terminal be converted to all domestic?

Do they honestly think they’ll need all 120 gates this could theoretically be built out to?
 
CobaltScar
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:22 am

Real question is why is Bright-line necessary? You need a car in Florida no matter what stop you get off at , and especially in Orlando.
 
flyiguy
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 2:22 am

From what I heard, GOAA wants to move all the international airlines and flights to that terminal so customs can consolidate to 1 large terminal instead of 2 smaller ones.

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
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FLALEFTY
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:20 am

flyiguy wrote:
From what I heard, GOAA wants to move all the international airlines and flights to that terminal so customs can consolidate to 1 large terminal instead of 2 smaller ones.

FLY


That's correct. The new terminal will also allow "bags first" processing for international-arriving passengers which should make clearing customs & immigration quicker and more pleasant.

The international flights are currently clustered around Airsides #1 and #4, mixed in with domestic traffic. Trans Atlantic flights tend to all arrive at Airside #1 in the late afternoon and leave in the early evening. Caribbean and Latin American flights also try to arrive and leave fairly close together from Airside #4. As it now stands, both airsides get very crowded and frequently arriving flights have to wait for gates to open up, especially at Airside #4. The new terminal will ease this overcrowding and it will open up more gates for domestic use, especially by fast-growing LCC's. While MCO is not a true hub, it is a major focus city for Southwest, Frontier and Spirit.

As for the Intermodal hub, the Brightline trains already are running up and down Southeast Florida, work is progressing on the "Beachline" tracks, so I expect the trains will show up at MCO in the next couple of years. How successful Brightline will be is up for debate.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 6:19 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Why is this terminal necessary?
Was the existing international capacity in the old terminal not sufficient?

Pre-COVID, MCO was already at 26 foreign airlines + 5 US carriers offering nonstops on international routings.

By 2018 it had overtaken legacy gateways like DTW, SEA, PHL, and CLT in terms of total nonstop international pax, and it would've surpassed IAD within 2yrs, if their respective int'l growth rates (9% and 3%) held steady-- putting it at similar foreign pax numbers to BOS and DFW.

So it was easily ripe for a consolidated international terminal. Wasn't much reason back then to assume the market wouldn't continue to grow.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
TTailedTiger
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:10 am

I can't wait until it opens and we no longer have to wait on international passengers arriving from gates 60-99. MCO's CBP is woefully inefficient and the lazy TSA there are never in any hurry to switch the trains around.
 
Oykie
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:40 am

LAX772LR wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Why is this terminal necessary?
Was the existing international capacity in the old terminal not sufficient?

Pre-COVID, MCO was already at 26 foreign airlines + 5 US carriers offering nonstops on international routings.

By 2018 it had overtaken legacy gateways like DTW, SEA, PHL, and CLT in terms of total nonstop international pax, and it would've surpassed IAD within 2yrs, if their respective int'l growth rates (9% and 3%) held steady-- putting it at similar foreign pax numbers to BOS and DFW.

So it was easily ripe for a consolidated international terminal. Wasn't much reason back then to assume the market wouldn't continue to grow.


Millions of kids, love going to Florida and experience the amusement parks, parks etc. It seems like no matter how insanely expensive the tickets to Disney World is, it does not stop people from going there. I believe the A321XLR could open up Orlando to many destinations in Europe, maybe especially in Northern Europe. It is more a more expensive destination than Mediterranean, but the climate is usually warmer all year around. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Florida are welcoming and you are not questioned as a crimina, so Orlando is a pleasant entry for people that have not travelled to the U.S. before. I look forward to arrive at this new terminal. Looks really cool.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
Oykie
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 7:45 am

CobaltScar wrote:
Real question is why is Bright-line necessary? You need a car in Florida no matter what stop you get off at , and especially in Orlando.


The Florida Turnpike and I-95 are a comfortable ride between Orlando and Miami. And I agree for almost everything you need a car. However as a tourist you can save some money enjoying Miami with a car, leave the car and go to one of the hotels near amusement parks and use the shuttle services from you hotel. Then fly out from Orlando. Or you can have your car in Orlando, and then leave it there and then travel to Miami and have one day at a beach and then fly out from Miami. It all depends on how expensive the train will be ;-)
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
rbavfan
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:13 am

FlyingElvii wrote:
Is this where the train will be going, as well?


The art for the terminal shows the intermodal train in a separate building.
 
rbavfan
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:20 am

jfklganyc wrote:
The real story is how quickly the high speed train corridor is being built along the Beachline to the airport and how spectacular the Train Station attached to the South Terminal is.

Not bad for a state that supposedly doesnt believe in transit vs a state like California that cant complete any of its high speed goals.

The South Terminal complex will be spacious and beautiful compared to the old 1 and 3 Airsides


Which beach line is the train going to go to from MCO? Can't find a proposed map.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3620
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:23 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Someone please educate me.

Why is this terminal necessary?

Was the existing international capacity in the old terminal not sufficient?

Will all international flights move here and the existing terminal be converted to all domestic?

Do they honestly think they’ll need all 120 gates this could theoretically be built out to?


The only palce to expand was Southwest terminal that for some reason had only 2 of the three concourse sections. They needed more space for expansion.
 
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NS1589
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:57 am

rbavfan wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The real story is how quickly the high speed train corridor is being built along the Beachline to the airport and how spectacular the Train Station attached to the South Terminal is.

Not bad for a state that supposedly doesnt believe in transit vs a state like California that cant complete any of its high speed goals.

The South Terminal complex will be spacious and beautiful compared to the old 1 and 3 Airsides


Which beach line is the train going to go to from MCO? Can't find a proposed map.



Orlando resident here...The only beachline I know of in Orlando is 528, running from Cocoa/port canaveral to I4. Hope this helps.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:38 pm

NS1589 wrote:
rbavfan wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
The real story is how quickly the high speed train corridor is being built along the Beachline to the airport and how spectacular the Train Station attached to the South Terminal is.

Not bad for a state that supposedly doesnt believe in transit vs a state like California that cant complete any of its high speed goals.

The South Terminal complex will be spacious and beautiful compared to the old 1 and 3 Airsides


Which beach line is the train going to go to from MCO? Can't find a proposed map.



Orlando resident here...The only beachline I know of in Orlando is 528, running from Cocoa/port canaveral to I4. Hope this helps.



Yes! If you look right while driving east you will see your future high speed train :)
 
CobaltScar
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:53 pm

Oykie wrote:
CobaltScar wrote:
Real question is why is Bright-line necessary? You need a car in Florida no matter what stop you get off at , and especially in Orlando.


The Florida Turnpike and I-95 are a comfortable ride between Orlando and Miami. And I agree for almost everything you need a car. However as a tourist you can save some money enjoying Miami with a car, leave the car and go to one of the hotels near amusement parks and use the shuttle services from you hotel. Then fly out from Orlando. Or you can have your car in Orlando, and then leave it there and then travel to Miami and have one day at a beach and then fly out from Miami. It all depends on how expensive the train will be ;-)


Sounds like a inconvenient nightmare. And any wise tourist should still rent a car and drive so they can actually see and visit things along the way. Take a train all the way to Miami to visit a beach? Plenty of nicer beaches east and west of Orlando.

Now if they connect the airport via sunrail (the orlando commuter train that is almost as useless) to the attractions, that might help some. They'd need to make a I-Drive station stop too.

Florida is still not that densely populated relative to its landmass. Things are spread out, and the cities are spread out.
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:27 pm

Anyone have any outdoor pics? Have jetways been attached to the building (At 60% construction completion, I'm going to say no, but the Orlando locals will know better than I will)?

NS1589 wrote:


Orlando resident here...The only beachline I know of in Orlando is 528, running from Cocoa/port canaveral to I4. Hope this helps.


I still call it the Beeline ;) .
 
MAH4546
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:38 am

Oykie wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
BNAMealer wrote:
Why is this terminal necessary?
Was the existing international capacity in the old terminal not sufficient?

Pre-COVID, MCO was already at 26 foreign airlines + 5 US carriers offering nonstops on international routings.

By 2018 it had overtaken legacy gateways like DTW, SEA, PHL, and CLT in terms of total nonstop international pax, and it would've surpassed IAD within 2yrs, if their respective int'l growth rates (9% and 3%) held steady-- putting it at similar foreign pax numbers to BOS and DFW.

So it was easily ripe for a consolidated international terminal. Wasn't much reason back then to assume the market wouldn't continue to grow.


Millions of kids, love going to Florida and experience the amusement parks, parks etc. It seems like no matter how insanely expensive the tickets to Disney World is, it does not stop people from going there. I believe the A321XLR could open up Orlando to many destinations in Europe, maybe especially in Northern Europe. It is more a more expensive destination than Mediterranean, but the climate is usually warmer all year around. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Florida are welcoming and you are not questioned as a crimina, so Orlando is a pleasant entry for people that have not travelled to the U.S. before. I look forward to arrive at this new terminal. Looks really cool.


Orlando is a bulk vacation market and still relatively unpopular with mainland Europeans. The economics of the A321XLR will never work with Orlando. One or two weekly 787s is far more viable (although Norwegian tried that and it hasn’t worked that well).
a.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:20 am

MAH4546 wrote:
The economics of the A321XLR will never work with Orlando.

Agreed. That's going to work for thinner markets that are comparatively low-density higher-yield.... not those where everyone's stuffing the planes to the gills with Y pax and baggage overages.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:57 am

phatfarmlines wrote:
Anyone have any outdoor pics? Have jetways been attached to the building (At 60% construction completion, I'm going to say no, but the Orlando locals will know better than I will)?

NS1589 wrote:


Orlando resident here...The only beachline I know of in Orlando is 528, running from Cocoa/port canaveral to I4. Hope this helps.


I still call it the Beeline ;) .


Remember the picture on of the BumbleBee on all the road signs? :)
 
crownvic
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Mon Aug 10, 2020 11:35 am

40 year resident of Orlando here..and 40 years of spotting at MCO...as of a few weeks ago no jetways installed yet..My spotting visits have dropped off considerably since I have no interest in spotting Spirit, Frontier and Southwest all day. Yes for me it still the beeline to the East Coast despite the Orlando Tourism guroos changing it to beachline as a marketing gimmick years ago..
 
Oykie
Posts: 1962
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Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Thu Aug 13, 2020 4:27 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Oykie wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
Pre-COVID, MCO was already at 26 foreign airlines + 5 US carriers offering nonstops on international routings.

By 2018 it had overtaken legacy gateways like DTW, SEA, PHL, and CLT in terms of total nonstop international pax, and it would've surpassed IAD within 2yrs, if their respective int'l growth rates (9% and 3%) held steady-- putting it at similar foreign pax numbers to BOS and DFW.

So it was easily ripe for a consolidated international terminal. Wasn't much reason back then to assume the market wouldn't continue to grow.


Millions of kids, love going to Florida and experience the amusement parks, parks etc. It seems like no matter how insanely expensive the tickets to Disney World is, it does not stop people from going there. I believe the A321XLR could open up Orlando to many destinations in Europe, maybe especially in Northern Europe. It is more a more expensive destination than Mediterranean, but the climate is usually warmer all year around. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Florida are welcoming and you are not questioned as a crimina, so Orlando is a pleasant entry for people that have not travelled to the U.S. before. I look forward to arrive at this new terminal. Looks really cool.


Orlando is a bulk vacation market and still relatively unpopular with mainland Europeans. The economics of the A321XLR will never work with Orlando. One or two weekly 787s is far more viable (although Norwegian tried that and it hasn’t worked that well).


At least in Norway Orlando and Florida is a very popular destination. A lot of international sports events also happens in Orlando and the ESPN facilities. I am not sure how the economics of the A321XLR will be compared to a 787-9 or even A330, but I thought the cost pr seat would not be higher on a 4000NM flight?

Anyway, I look forward to try these new facilities from mainland Europe.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26228
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:37 pm

Oykie wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Oykie wrote:

Millions of kids, love going to Florida and experience the amusement parks, parks etc. It seems like no matter how insanely expensive the tickets to Disney World is, it does not stop people from going there. I believe the A321XLR could open up Orlando to many destinations in Europe, maybe especially in Northern Europe. It is more a more expensive destination than Mediterranean, but the climate is usually warmer all year around. The U.S. Customs and Border Protection in Florida are welcoming and you are not questioned as a crimina, so Orlando is a pleasant entry for people that have not travelled to the U.S. before. I look forward to arrive at this new terminal. Looks really cool.


Orlando is a bulk vacation market and still relatively unpopular with mainland Europeans. The economics of the A321XLR will never work with Orlando. One or two weekly 787s is far more viable (although Norwegian tried that and it hasn’t worked that well).


At least in Norway Orlando and Florida is a very popular destination. A lot of international sports events also happens in Orlando and the ESPN facilities. I am not sure how the economics of the A321XLR will be compared to a 787-9 or even A330, but I thought the cost pr seat would not be higher on a 4000NM flight?

Anyway, I look forward to try these new facilities from mainland Europe.


Florida is popular, as in Miami, but Orlando not so much. The economics of an A321XLR will absolutely suck to Orlando - Orlando needs A LOT OF SEATS and cheap orices to work from Europe. Even Virgin Atlantic tends to send coach heavy planes with tiny business cabins.
a.
 
Happytycho
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:10 am

Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:49 am

BNAMealer wrote:
Someone please educate me.

Why is this terminal necessary?

Was the existing international capacity in the old terminal not sufficient?

Will all international flights move here and the existing terminal be converted to all domestic?

Do they honestly think they’ll need all 120 gates this could theoretically be built out to?


The terminal was necessary because MCO was running out of gates for both international and domestic flights.

In the existing terminal, Airside 1 has 8 international gates and Airside 4 has 12 international gates, and during the afternoon/evening peak there would be very few, if any, available. On the domestic side there were still some underutilized exclusive use gates, but MCO no longer had unused gates available for new services and the trend of 5%+ annual growth put them on pace for a bigger gate problem in the near future. The landside terminal has also experienced negative Level of Service impacts from higher than intended passenger counts.

Before Covid-19, the plan was for the airside 1 FIS to close, while the airside 4 FIS would remain open along with the larger Terminal C facility. Airside 1 would then become all domestic gates to provide more space for expansion of ULCCs. Post Covid, they will probably still need two FIS facilities if a substantial (60%+) portion of international traffic returns. However, if domestic traffic doesn't return soon in an even bigger way, the airport has floated the possibility of completely closing airside 1 after the south terminal opens.

The 120 gates is just a conceptual master plan for what the space can accommodate, somewhat similar to how DEN has a master plan concept for 12 runways. I doubt anyone believes they need 120 gates in addition to all of the existing ones, but some parts of the north terminal are almost 40 years old so the south terminal site could provide space for replacements while avoiding the challenges of rebuilding on the site of an existing terminal. But none of that is going to happen anytime soon, because the Aviation Authority (GOAA) is almost broke.
 
ClipperGoodwill
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:22 pm

MCO current design capacity is 45 million pax. MCO had 50.6 million in 2019 and was growing at <8% inbefore Covid-19. The terminal C complex was definitely needed, at the time. Recovery will be interesting. Although tourism is in complete chaos., overall growth of the region outside of the tourism is continuing at a cautious pace.
You can't beat the Experience.
 
ClipperGoodwill
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:23 pm

Re: MCO's new South Terminal is taking shape

Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:22 pm

MCO current design capacity is 45 million pax. MCO had 50.6 million in 2019 and was growing at <8% inbefore Covid-19. The terminal C complex was definitely needed, at the time. Recovery will be interesting. Although tourism is in complete chaos., overall growth of the region outside of the tourism is continuing at a cautious pace.
You can't beat the Experience.

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