Page 1 of 1

SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 10:57 pm
by x1234
SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights? I have always said that BRU and MAD are the most important destinations missing in SQ's EU network. Since they fly to IST where TK flies to every major European airport (including CIS/Central Asia) would they code-share with TK? Or is the EU business mainly with Lufthansa in FRA/MUC?

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:08 pm
by LAXintl
SQ just posted a record loss, with enplanements down 99.5% for the group!
At the moment Singapore is essentially closed to foreigners, and those let in are issued a 14-day self-quarantine notice, so yes loads must be atrocious in the few markets they operate to.

SQ already codeshares with TK to European markets.
https://bit.ly/3jVplJF

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:32 pm
by MrBrightSide
Singapore does not allow international transit, so even if you're on a flight BKK-SIN or KUL-SIN or JKT-SIN (the bread and butter connections), you're not allowed to take a connection, even though you'd stay airside all the time. That cut off significant revenue potential and gave traffic to QR, EK and others.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:38 am
by toga998
Considering that we are suffering from a global health crisis affecting every corner of the world I would not say this is surprising...

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:51 am
by smithbs
MrBrightSide wrote:
Singapore does not allow international transit, so even if you're on a flight BKK-SIN or KUL-SIN or JKT-SIN (the bread and butter connections), you're not allowed to take a connection, even though you'd stay airside all the time. That cut off significant revenue potential and gave traffic to QR, EK and others.


That's interesting. Does that apply to connecting with different carriers, or even same carriers? How long has that rule been in effect? Or is it just for COVID?

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 am
by eamondzhang
smithbs wrote:
MrBrightSide wrote:
Singapore does not allow international transit, so even if you're on a flight BKK-SIN or KUL-SIN or JKT-SIN (the bread and butter connections), you're not allowed to take a connection, even though you'd stay airside all the time. That cut off significant revenue potential and gave traffic to QR, EK and others.


That's interesting. Does that apply to connecting with different carriers, or even same carriers? How long has that rule been in effect? Or is it just for COVID?

IIRC Singapore is actually allowing international transits now but with strict restrictions.

Pax must be travelling from and to specific allowed countries (believe Aus/NZ are two), must have boarding pass and baggage taged to their destination and must be transiting only once and that is via SIN.

Which essentially means you can't go MEL-SIN on SQ and SIN-KUL on AK or LHR-IST-SIN-TYO for example.

I'm personally not surprised on SQ's exit from BRU - in fact I will be very surprised if not more carriers are abandoning their new long-haul routes like SQ does to BRU.

Michael

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:46 am
by 787SIN
As michael said, transiting at Changi is restricted. Believe only those travelling on SQ group airlines can at the moment.

Transit has been allowed on certain flights since beginning of June, and has been expanded slightly. But still limited. As its fairly fluid the best info is both on the Changi Airport website which and idea of what to expect when transiting the airport and SQs which details the routes transit is available on.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:27 am
by AngMoh
787SIN wrote:
As michael said, transiting at Changi is restricted. Believe only those travelling on SQ group airlines can at the moment.

Transit has been allowed on certain flights since beginning of June, and has been expanded slightly. But still limited. As its fairly fluid the best info is both on the Changi Airport website which and idea of what to expect when transiting the airport and SQs which details the routes transit is available on.


My daughter flew back SIN-AMS to return to university last Tuesday. There were totally 2 business class passengers, 5 premium economy (which was 1 family flying together), and around 30-40 economy passengers. Only 4 passengers flew SIN-AMS, all economy. I believe all were students returning to university. The rest were transit passengers originating from Australia and New Zealand. The bulk were dutch students returning from exchange programs in Australia.

Arrangements were very strict. First transit passengers were completely separated with no interaction at any point in time. Holding areas in airport for transit passengers were separate. First boarding was economy transit passengers and they were seated in the back (after toilet). Then Singapore originating passengers were boarded in the forward section of economy (between premium economy and toilets). Then premium economy. Don't know the arrangements for business. I read before that there are separate toilets in the plane for Singapore originating passengers and transit passengers, but not sure if that was the case. On arrival, there was separate disembarkation for the various groups and no mixing anytime till passing immigration. Once passed immigration and Dutch jurisdiction, there was no control whatsoever. Health declarations were not checked. The required self isolation was not emphasised. The only instruction were by SQ crew.

Singapore is paranoid about being excused of exporting corona. We have high numbers, but if this was anywhere in Europe our numbers would be way lower due to our unique circumstances. Last week there was a passenger arriving from New Zealand via Singapore found positive of covid in South Korea. The first excuse was transit in Singapore, but that was impossible because of arrangements and the fact that maximum transfer time is 4 hours. It is impossible to be infected in Singapore and a swab 10 hours later in Korea to be positive. Now New Zealand and South Korea are trying to figure out what happened.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:32 am
by itisi
Are loads bad :rotfl: .... Why would anyone be flying!

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:36 am
by SpoonNZ
AngMoh wrote:
The first excuse was transit in Singapore, but that was impossible because of arrangements and the fact that maximum transfer time is 4 hours. It is impossible to be infected in Singapore and a swab 10 hours later in Korea to be positive. Now New Zealand and South Korea are trying to figure out what happened.

According to https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/c ... queenstown he was in the transit lounge for 14 hours.

Seems most likely to be its a persistent asymptomatic case from a long time ago - as you say, catching it at SIN and testing positive even 20 hours later seems infeasible.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:47 am
by brilondon
itisi wrote:
Are loads bad :rotfl: .... Why would anyone be flying!

That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:27 pm
by airbazar
brilondon wrote:
itisi wrote:
Are loads bad :rotfl: .... Why would anyone be flying!

That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.

Not everyone is that paranoid. This is still a very rare virus to catch, albeit a dangerous one so precautions need to be taken but by no means does it mean one need to curl up into a ball and hide under the stairs for a year or two. Earlier in July my family and I went on vacation, by plane *gasp*, and we are debating a possible second trip later in August.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:03 pm
by CriticalPoint
brilondon wrote:
itisi wrote:
Are loads bad :rotfl: .... Why would anyone be flying!

That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.


You ever stopped to wonder why FAs and Pilots aren’t dropping dead in droves?

Maybe because it’s safer than you think.......GASP.

The industry isn’t lying to you when they tell you how good the HEPA filters are and all the lengths the airlines go through (especially United Airlines) to clean the aircraft and keep people safe.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:06 pm
by LH748
You might have missed it but we're right in the middle of a pandamic
There's little to no passenger demand

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:12 pm
by Prost
CriticalPoint wrote:
brilondon wrote:
itisi wrote:
Are loads bad :rotfl: .... Why would anyone be flying!

That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.


You ever stopped to wonder why FAs and Pilots aren’t dropping dead in droves?

Maybe because it’s safer than you think.......GASP.

The industry isn’t lying to you when they tell you how good the HEPA filters are and all the lengths the airlines go through (especially United Airlines) to clean the aircraft and keep people safe.


There have been a number of my fellow employees who have caught it and even died.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:14 pm
by CriticalPoint
Prost wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
brilondon wrote:
That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.


You ever stopped to wonder why FAs and Pilots aren’t dropping dead in droves?

Maybe because it’s safer than you think.......GASP.

The industry isn’t lying to you when they tell you how good the HEPA filters are and all the lengths the airlines go through (especially United Airlines) to clean the aircraft and keep people safe.


There have been a number of my fellow employees who have caught it and even died.


Of course. My point is if it was this highly infected tube people seem to think it is then all aircrew would be dead and gone by now.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:54 pm
by Revelation
787SIN wrote:
As michael said, transiting at Changi is restricted. Believe only those travelling on SQ group airlines can at the moment.

Transit has been allowed on certain flights since beginning of June, and has been expanded slightly. But still limited. As its fairly fluid the best info is both on the Changi Airport website which and idea of what to expect when transiting the airport and SQs which details the routes transit is available on.

The uncertainty can't be prevented but it is yet another thing suppressing demand. Who wants to find themselves stuck in an unexpected way half way through a journey? Best to stay home till it's all sorted out.

CriticalPoint wrote:
My point is if it was this highly infected tube people seem to think it is then all aircrew would be dead and gone by now.

I don't think such exaggerations are helpful. It's just common sense that the more places you go and the more people you interact with, the greater your odds are of catching and spreading this highly contagious virus, so non-essential travel should be avoided.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:04 pm
by CriticalPoint
Revelation wrote:
787SIN wrote:
As michael said, transiting at Changi is restricted. Believe only those travelling on SQ group airlines can at the moment.

Transit has been allowed on certain flights since beginning of June, and has been expanded slightly. But still limited. As its fairly fluid the best info is both on the Changi Airport website which and idea of what to expect when transiting the airport and SQs which details the routes transit is available on.

The uncertainty can't be prevented but it is yet another thing suppressing demand. Who wants to find themselves stuck in an unexpected way half way through a journey? Best to stay home till it's all sorted out.

CriticalPoint wrote:
My point is if it was this highly infected tube people seem to think it is then all aircrew would be dead and gone by now.

I don't think such exaggerations are helpful. It's just common sense that the more places you go and the more people you interact with, the greater your odds are of catching and spreading this highly contagious virus, so non-essential travel should be avoided.


All I’m saying is that simple statistics prove that being on an airplane is not going to get you sick. Iv been flying constantly since March.......commuting, Deadheading on some flights that are packed. Walking through terminals getting on busses and staying in Hotels. All aircrews have and we aren’t getting sick and those that do aren’t dying

Wouldn’t aircrews be the proverbial canaries in a coal mine?

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:17 pm
by Revelation
Revelation wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
My point is if it was this highly infected tube people seem to think it is then all aircrew would be dead and gone by now.

I don't think such exaggerations are helpful. It's just common sense that the more places you go and the more people you interact with, the greater your odds are of catching and spreading this highly contagious virus, so non-essential travel should be avoided.

I think we're in agreement the airlines and the airports are doing a very good job and the results reflect that. If I had to travel due to some sort of emergency situation I would. Since I do not have to travel, I don't. I have lost one friend to CV19, know of a few fatalities that may have been CV19 related (there's now a stigma around admitting it so it is often going unsaid) and know of several people who survived infection but it really pushed them to the edge. It makes no sense to put one's self at additional risk if it can be avoided.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:18 pm
by brilondon
CriticalPoint wrote:
brilondon wrote:
itisi wrote:
Are loads bad :rotfl: .... Why would anyone be flying!

That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.


You ever stopped to wonder why FAs and Pilots aren’t dropping dead in droves?

Maybe because it’s safer than you think.......GASP.

The industry isn’t lying to you when they tell you how good the HEPA filters are and all the lengths the airlines go through (especially United Airlines) to clean the aircraft and keep people safe.
Prost wrote:
CriticalPoint wrote:
brilondon wrote:
That's my question. Why would anyone want to fly. Even after a vaccine is found, it will not eliminate the virus, only eventually reduce the risk. A risk, I am not going to take.


You ever stopped to wonder why FAs and Pilots aren’t dropping dead in droves?

Maybe because it’s safer than you think.......GASP.

The industry isn’t lying to you when they tell you how good the HEPA filters are and all the lengths the airlines go through (especially United Airlines) to clean the aircraft and keep people safe.

If you think this is a joke, by all means keep up the work you're doing. There is enough evidence to show that this is going to be two to three years before they can control this. It's not just the flu. Drinking bleach or injecting yourself with snake oil will not stop the virus from getting to you.

There have been a number of my fellow employees who have caught it and even died.

Re: SQ cancelled plans for BRU, are loads that bad on EU flights?

Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:49 pm
by airbazar
CriticalPoint wrote:
All I’m saying is that simple statistics prove that being on an airplane is not going to get you sick. Iv been flying constantly since March.......commuting, Deadheading on some flights that are packed. Walking through terminals getting on busses and staying in Hotels. All aircrews have and we aren’t getting sick and those that do aren’t dying

Wouldn’t aircrews be the proverbial canaries in a coal mine?

1000% agree. And we're now having the same exact hysterics around kids returning to school when data from other countries that did open schools back in May and June shows that is can be done safely and more importantly, young kinds are more likely to catch the virus at home from their parents than at school from their peers. But science seems to have taken a backseat to politics these days.
There have been countless studies over decades about airborn contagious diseases on airplanes. Manufacturers have taken those studies seriously when designing airplanes. Those are facts. Tuberculosis kills 3,000 people per day and it's been an epidemic for decades and no one ever stopped flying because of it. Chances are most of us have been inside a plane with someone carrying TB.
Long story short, I feel 10x safer now inside a plane than I do sitting in a restaurant in my city. Some will argue I shouldn't be doing either :)