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xwb777
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Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:16 am

The Indian carrier, Vistara, has announced today that it will be launching flights to 3 destinations in Europe, London, Frankfurt and Paris. The flights will be operated with the 2 B789s in the airline’s fleet, featuring a new business class, Premium Economy and Economy.

The airline has previously stated that it wants to connect LHR with Delhi starting from 12AUG20. Flights to both CDG and FRA are subject to approvals from the aviation authorities.

Source: https://simpleflying.com/vistara-europe ... =instagram
 
by738
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:24 am

good luck with this venture at this particular juncture! I suspect they’re going to need it, or deep pockets
 
jonas12345
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:31 am

where did they get the LHR slot from?
 
brilondon
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:46 am

jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

I'm sure there's plenty available right now.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
jonas12345
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:51 am

brilondon wrote:
jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

I'm sure there's plenty available right now.


not permanently though. If they plan to fly this on an ongoing basis, someone will have had to give them a slot
 
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HECA
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:36 am

jonas12345 wrote:
brilondon wrote:
jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

I'm sure there's plenty available right now.


not permanently though. If they plan to fly this on an ongoing basis, someone will have had to give them a slot


Perhaps Vistara acquired the former Jet Airways slots?
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brilondon
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:38 am

HECA wrote:
jonas12345 wrote:
brilondon wrote:
I'm sure there's plenty available right now.


not permanently though. If they plan to fly this on an ongoing basis, someone will have had to give them a slot


Perhaps Vistara acquired the former Jet Airways slots?


There's always a way. I'm sure they will get something if they offer something.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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c933103
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:57 pm

jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

I thought LHR have extra slot for new airlines
It's pointless to attempt winning internet debate. 求同存異. よく見て・よく聞いて・よく考える
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chunhimlai
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:13 pm

Would SQ a380 goes to Vistara in the future?
 
Weatherwatcher1
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:45 pm

jonas12345 wrote:
brilondon wrote:
jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

I'm sure there's plenty available right now.


not permanently though. If they plan to fly this on an ongoing basis, someone will have had to give them a slot


Slot values have dropped. There will be at least one airline in bankruptcy liquidating slots for less than the previous market prices
 
fcogafa
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:52 pm

Maybe not so easy, China airlines are operating into LHR regularly at the moment but weren't allocated any requested winter schedule slots by ACL
 
TUGMASTER
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:05 pm

Believe the Jet Airways skits belonged to EY.
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:38 am

Looks like Vistara is planning to start off London, Paris and Frankfurt as repatriation flights based on this link
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 359_1.html

With regards to the LHR slots question, is everybody just assuming it will be LHR? Is there a more recent source that actually says Vistara is flying to LHR? There is a possibility of Vistara getting slots at LHR according to the Livemint article from a few months ago but the article also mentions Vistara looking at LGW as a backup.
https://www.livemint.com/news/india/cov ... 86687.html

Lastly if the flights are starting in August, it is surprising that the Vistara website has no mention of the routes opening up. There is no news about this on the airline website.
https://www.airvistara.com/in/en/media- ... ss-release
 
debonair
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:13 am

Will be interesting to watch, BA & LH are codeshare partners. AF just Interline partner... Will the agreements kept and even connecting flights to the hubs offered? LH is *A member and associated wit AI.
 
Blerg
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:17 am

Will they be offering connections or will they focus only on O&D?
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:50 pm

Blerg wrote:
Will they be offering connections or will they focus only on O&D?

Domestic connections only at the India end, no connections via Frankfurt, London or Paris for North America. European airports are not allowing international connections for anybody flying to or from North America.
Not sure about European connections.
 
voxkel
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm

I expect them to launch JFK or SFO nonstop with their 789. I think that's why they are not focusing on Euro connections.

On another note, I hope they launch DEL-JNB as well.
 
seansasLCY
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:13 pm

jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

Perhaps leased from SQ given they operated 4 daily and now currently 1 daily. They are a parent of Vistera so would make sense.
 
VTORD
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:12 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
Looks like Vistara is planning to start off London, Paris and Frankfurt as repatriation flights based on this link
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 359_1.html

Lastly if the flights are starting in August, it is surprising that the Vistara website has no mention of the routes opening up. There is no news about this on the airline website.
https://www.airvistara.com/in/en/media- ... ss-release

AFAIK, India has suspended all scheduled international flights until August 31, so it has to be MVB flights. Also, how they expect to operate LHR, FRA and CDG with a single 789, I have no idea unless they expect to run 1-2 frequencies / week to each airport. When is the second 789 due? No word on it's delivery though it has been through the paces at BFI (about 2 weeks ago). Can the A321Neo do CDG (based on rumors that Moscow was to be the first route)?

voxkel wrote:
I expect them to launch JFK or SFO nonstop with their 789. I think that's why they are not focusing on Euro connections.

On another note, I hope they launch DEL-JNB as well.

The first 4 (I think) 789s do not have crew rest areas. So NA will not be possible using those frames.
That being said, I am actually expecting a drop in India - US business and leisure traffic. Companies will expand "non-essential travel" categories significantly now that Zoom and Teams have started a full on conferencing war. With companies expanding WFH until at least 2021, I would be very surprised if AI don't cut their SFO down to at least weekly and UA also go to 3/4xWeekly.
 
CaliguyNYC
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:29 am

VTORD wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
Looks like Vistara is planning to start off London, Paris and Frankfurt as repatriation flights based on this link
https://www.business-standard.com/artic ... 359_1.html

Lastly if the flights are starting in August, it is surprising that the Vistara website has no mention of the routes opening up. There is no news about this on the airline website.
https://www.airvistara.com/in/en/media- ... ss-release

AFAIK, India has suspended all scheduled international flights until August 31, so it has to be MVB flights. Also, how they expect to operate LHR, FRA and CDG with a single 789, I have no idea unless they expect to run 1-2 frequencies / week to each airport. When is the second 789 due? No word on it's delivery though it has been through the paces at BFI (about 2 weeks ago). Can the A321Neo do CDG (based on rumors that Moscow was to be the first route)?

voxkel wrote:
I expect them to launch JFK or SFO nonstop with their 789. I think that's why they are not focusing on Euro connections.

On another note, I hope they launch DEL-JNB as well.

The first 4 (I think) 789s do not have crew rest areas. So NA will not be possible using those frames.
That being said, I am actually expecting a drop in India - US business and leisure traffic. Companies will expand "non-essential travel" categories significantly now that Zoom and Teams have started a full on conferencing war. With companies expanding WFH until at least 2021, I would be very surprised if AI don't cut their SFO down to at least weekly and UA also go to 3/4xWeekly.


Interesting take on India-US travel. I would actually take a different view. I agree India-US travel will go down, but I think US-India might fair better than many US-international routes (on a percentage decline basis). For business travel - India was already a big trip not done lightly (you don’t really pop over to India). Business trips to India are usually to meet your offshore team or the Indian team members coming to America for training or big meetings. I think that will all remain with a little decline. The US and UK will probably play an even bigger role to indian business in a COVID world, so I still think the Indian side will travel to both a fare amount. Finally al lot of India-US traffic is VFR. That will continue with a small decline. Now non Indian American tourists visiting india will go down. But that group is a small percentage of the overall traffic. Indian tourists will probably see America as a ”safe” place (when things stabilize).
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:43 am

VTORD wrote:
AFAIK, India has suspended all scheduled international flights until August 31, so it has to be MVB flights. Also, how they expect to operate LHR, FRA and CDG with a single 789, I have no idea unless they expect to run 1-2 frequencies / week to each airport. When is the second 789 due? No word on it's delivery though it has been through the paces at BFI (about 2 weeks ago). Can the A321Neo do CDG (based on rumors that Moscow was to be the first route)?


I believe the second B789 is due early August.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:02 am

Could be a mixed bag...especially if UK is positioning itself to be a replacement for AI in terms of longer-haul. If only one of AI or UK survives long term (in the full-service mainline division), I suspect it will be UK.
 
migair54
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 5:13 pm

voxkel wrote:
I expect them to launch JFK or SFO nonstop with their 789. I think that's why they are not focusing on Euro connections.

On another note, I hope they launch DEL-JNB as well.


3 very good routes to burn millions a day. also, with 6 B787 on order and 3 planned routes to Europe announced I can't see any chance at all to any US route anytime soon.

debonair wrote:
Will be interesting to watch, BA & LH are codeshare partners. AF just Interline partner... Will the agreements kept and even connecting flights to the hubs offered? LH is *A member and associated wit AI.


BA and Oneworld should be happy to have more access to India market. LH is a codeshare but they also have Air India to do business with.

chunhimlai wrote:
Would SQ a380 goes to Vistara in the future?


yes, in the form of cutlery. They can also take over the Kingfisher ones.

xwb777 wrote:
The Indian carrier, Vistara, has announced today that it will be launching flights to 3 destinations in Europe, London, Frankfurt and Paris. The flights will be operated with the 2 B789s in the airline’s fleet, featuring a new business class, Premium Economy and Economy.

3 destinations in Europe with 2 planes, does not look good, I can see plenty of problems in the future. I think they will do better if they wait until they have 3 or 4 of the 6 B787 in order.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 7:12 pm

These are only repatriation flights. Just like SpiceJet's 'Wet-leased' HiFly A330neo. I won't be surprised if 9W also deploys a couple of 777s
 
DTWLAX
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:18 pm

For all those asking how UK is planning to serve 3 destinations with 2 planes, are you thinking UK is planning to fly daily or 4-5x weekly? That is not going to happen given the current scenario even if they had more planes.
Like I mentioned in my post earlier, UK flights are starting off as repatriation flights, so frequency will be at most 2x a week and even that may be overkill.
 
brilondon
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sun Aug 02, 2020 8:45 pm

jonas12345 wrote:
where did they get the LHR slot from?

There are probably slots available from any number of carriers.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:24 am

trinidadeG wrote:
These are only repatriation flights. Just like SpiceJet's 'Wet-leased' HiFly A330neo. I won't be surprised if 9W also deploys a couple of 777s

9W is dead in the water for more than a year.

Michael
 
N867DA
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 1:18 am

DTWLAX wrote:
Blerg wrote:
Will they be offering connections or will they focus only on O&D?

Domestic connections only at the India end, no connections via Frankfurt, London or Paris for North America. European airports are not allowing international connections for anybody flying to or from North America.
Not sure about European connections.


I flew North America - CDG- BLR this week on AF. It was very different than normal, but connections within Europe are possible both ways. I believe a COVID-19 negative test is required for travel nowadays.

Vistara might as well focus on just O&D for all the complications and shifting rules regarding onward connections. They are justifiable in these times but certainly curtail the number of connecting passengers.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
VTORD
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:22 am

CaliguyNYC wrote:
I would actually take a different view. I agree India-US travel will go down, but I think US-India might fair better than many US-international routes (on a percentage decline basis). For business travel - India was already a big trip not done lightly (you don’t really pop over to India).

Agreed but....

CaliguyNYC wrote:
Business trips to India are usually to meet your offshore team or the Indian team members coming to America for training or big meetings. I think that will all remain with a little decline.

This I think will see more than a "little" decline. I am not saying it will never come back but there are three factors that will impact this: 1. Newly discovered video conferencing capability, 2. Indian tech MNCs will face headwinds in the way of less demand for bodies and 3. Increasingly hostile immigration landscape (H1B/L1 contracting + related F1 demand) until at least Jan 2021 best case scenario

However....
CaliguyNYC wrote:
The US and UK will probably play an even bigger role to indian business in a COVID world, so I still think the Indian side will travel to both a fare amount. Finally a lot of India-US traffic is VFR. That will continue with a small decline.

A lot of this will be driven by companies' intent and India's ability to present a viable alternative as a supply chain alternative to China. What it may do is drive more traffic to be direct (people may want to avoid an extra stop in the changed circumstances). But in principle a good argument. Also agree on the tourism traffic bit.

Long story short, UK are better off leaving NA to AI for now and focus on Europe. Wait for demand to stabilize and may be move up their Dreamliners with the crew rests to be positioned to capitalize on the normalizing demand.
 
Blerg
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:12 am

But if they are not going after transfers in Europe, what's the logic behind operating into FRA? I thought it would make sense for them to rely on LH feed given their SIA ownership.

Wouldn't Manchester or Birmingham make more sense?
 
TC957
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 7:39 am

Blerg wrote:
But if they are not going after transfers in Europe, what's the logic behind operating into FRA? I thought it would make sense for them to rely on LH feed given their SIA ownership.

Wouldn't Manchester or Birmingham make more sense?

Maybe MAN & BHX, and possibly MUC and AMS, would be long-term targets once the 787 fleet builds up.
 
Toinou
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:02 am

Blerg wrote:
But if they are not going after transfers in Europe, what's the logic behind operating into FRA? I thought it would make sense for them to rely on LH feed given their SIA ownership.

Wouldn't Manchester or Birmingham make more sense?

Well, even without connections, FRA is a good airport to serve at least a good chunk of western Germany, which is the most densely area of Germany (and it even has good road and rail connections with other parts of Germany and some neighboring countries). So the catchment area of FRA is in (tens of) millions, with lots of businesses. To me, it seems not that bad to start a connection to India. In comparison to London and Paris, FRA region may have less Indians and tourism but it still has strong points.
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:08 am

eamondzhang wrote:
trinidadeG wrote:
These are only repatriation flights. Just like SpiceJet's 'Wet-leased' HiFly A330neo. I won't be surprised if 9W also deploys a couple of 777s

9W is dead in the water for more than a year.

Michael


Jet cannot start scheduled, commercial operations. But they can operate these long-haul repatriation/charter flights if they get their paperwork in order. A skeletal engineering team has been keeping a few B777s airworthy and the company made offers to the government to operate them for Covid19 relief cargo flights as mentioned on the Jet Airways thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1420603&start=1800#p22259609
 
hohd
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Mon Aug 03, 2020 3:21 pm

VTORD wrote:
This I think will see more than a "little" decline. I am not saying it will never come back but there are three factors that will impact this: 1. Newly discovered video conferencing capability, 2. Indian tech MNCs will face headwinds in the way of less demand for bodies and 3. Increasingly hostile immigration landscape (H1B/L1 contracting + related F1 demand) until at least Jan 2021 best case scenario
[/quote]

Somewhat disagree on the first point. Video conferencing has always been an alternative during the last 2 to 3 years. Due to time differences, occasional business trips are necessary, hence the business travel will decline (long term) but not by much. I know several persons in India working for Big IT and banks and they do video conference routinely but told me that in person business visits was still required. However for at least a year, business travel will be down significantly.
 
avier
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Vistara announces Mumbai-London (LHR)

Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:35 pm

Vistara has finally announced the much awaited Mumbai- London (LHR) flight.
The lack of a premium Indian FSC on this route needed to be filled since 9W shut shop. Glad they are taking up this route.
However, it's to be seen how they procured the slots and for how long those slots are valid.


https://www.hindustantimes.com/mumbai-n ... IFgbM.html
 
TC957
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Re: Vistara announces Mumbai-London (LHR)

Fri Nov 27, 2020 5:29 pm

Flights already on sale. However, SpiceJet have delayed launching LHR to a yet-to-be-decided date.
 
avier
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Re: Vistara announces Mumbai-London (LHR)

Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:11 pm

TC957 wrote:
Flights already on sale. However, SpiceJet have delayed launching LHR to a yet-to-be-decided date.

Spicejet have stated lockdown in UK as the excuse for the delay. And probably aircraft wet-leasing issues. They wanted more than one frame to serve LHR.
Vistara though seems confident of serving this market in this downturn and lockdown period of UK.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:14 pm

India's aviation industry is littered with failures. What are Vistara's real chances of survival, given the pandemic?
 
avier
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Re: Vistara to launch London, Frankfurt and Paris

Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:40 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
India's aviation industry is littered with failures. What are Vistara's real chances of survival, given the pandemic?

Their survival depends on how much money their promoters are willing to burn. They are backed by a large industrial group along with expertise of SQ- the other owner. Indian carriers success usually depends on them having such a backing, or in some cases having large cash reserves from past profits (6E).
 
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trinidadeG
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Re: Vistara announces Mumbai-London (LHR)

Sat Nov 28, 2020 2:16 pm

avier wrote:
TC957 wrote:
Flights already on sale. However, SpiceJet have delayed launching LHR to a yet-to-be-decided date.

Spicejet have stated lockdown in UK as the excuse for the delay. And probably aircraft wet-leasing issues. They wanted more than one frame to serve LHR.

I wonder if this had anything to do with their decision.

SpiceJet taken to court in UK for over Rs 200 crore of unpaid dues
 
avier
Posts: 1235
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:38 pm

Re: Vistara announces Mumbai-London (LHR)

Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:58 pm

trinidadeG wrote:
I wonder if this had anything to do with their decision.

SpiceJet taken to court in UK for over Rs 200 crore of unpaid dues

They'd be operating a wet-leased plane, so I wonder how that could be stopped by the courts or impounded against settlement of dues (like 9W 77W's at AMS).
They also had the permission to fly there.

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