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AviatorNZ
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:33 am

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ6 wrote:
... complete changes are happening urgently.

Does this mean we can expect more flights to be loaded in the coming days?

Cheers,

C.


The domestic network for Auckland during Level 3 will be as follows from Tuesday (the remainder of the network is unchanged)

Auckland to/from:

Christchurch 13 weekly returns
Gisborne 3 weekly returns
Kerikeri 7 weekly returns
Napier 3 weekly returns
Palmerston North 3 weekly returns
Tauranga 3 weekly returns
Wellington 7 weekly returns
Whangarei 7 weekly returns

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/travel-alerts
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 1:39 am

Has anyone seen any information around how much this new period of level 2/3 is costing NZ and JQ daily?

Assuming that they are still having to pay all the effected staff from cancelation, as would of been way to short to stand them all down.
 
Toenga
Posts: 185
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 2:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:04 am

zkncj wrote:

Without trying to end up sounding political, but if we want an tourism industry left in New Zealand (including airlines).

We can’t keep going jumping alert levels like this, even if this is just an two week shutdown. It will be engough to push some smaller operators out of bussines.

I get that COVID-19 isn’t an great thing, but the more we let it control us the more damage it will cause the industry.


The trouble I see is that no country in the world has managed to maintain a suppression regime that does not involve high loss of life
in parallel with hugely reduced economic activity the result of massive social distancing, either mandated, or voluntarily imposed for self preservation.
The return from measures is not proportional. If you can get to elimination, the costs, both social and economic, of maintaining it, and even reestablishing it, as we are going through at the moment, are very much less then stumbling along with the virus simultaneously killing economic performance and people. You can put a lot of effort towards reducing transmission, but anything short of elimination is missing the big reward. As shown in Victoria, and elsewhere the virus needs so little opportunity to create a health, and therefore economic emergency. Better to aim higher and waste some clearance.
Unfortunately the effects of the virus are not evenly spread in any society. For many it will be a mild inconvenience, for some, a wonderful opportunity, and some, like those involved in tourism and passenger aviation, devastating. I hope our society handles these people with a lot of compassion whilst they make the considerable adjustments to their lives.
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1240
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:30 am

Toenga wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Without trying to end up sounding political, but if we want an tourism industry left in New Zealand (including airlines).

We can’t keep going jumping alert levels like this, even if this is just an two week shutdown. It will be engough to push some smaller operators out of bussines.

I get that COVID-19 isn’t an great thing, but the more we let it control us the more damage it will cause the industry.


The trouble I see is that no country in the world has managed to maintain a suppression regime that does not involve high loss of life
in parallel with hugely reduced economic activity the result of massive social distancing, either mandated, or voluntarily imposed for self preservation.
The return from measures is not proportional. If you can get to elimination, the costs, both social and economic, of maintaining it, and even reestablishing it, as we are going through at the moment, are very much less then stumbling along with the virus simultaneously killing economic performance and people. You can put a lot of effort towards reducing transmission, but anything short of elimination is missing the big reward. As shown in Victoria, and elsewhere the virus needs so little opportunity to create a health, and therefore economic emergency. Better to aim higher and waste some clearance.
Unfortunately the effects of the virus are not evenly spread in any society. For many it will be a mild inconvenience, for some, a wonderful opportunity, and some, like those involved in tourism and passenger aviation, devastating. I hope our society handles these people with a lot of compassion whilst they make the considerable adjustments to their lives.


Incredibly well summed up and said with wisdom and compassion - thank you!
 
PA515
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:48 am

There's this 22 July Jonathan Rankin photo of the 13 July ZK-OKQ horizontal stabiliser damage. I guess it could be fixed by now.



PA515
 
NZ321
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 8:08 am

PA515 wrote:
There's this 22 July Jonathan Rankin photo of the 13 July ZK-OKQ horizontal stabiliser damage. I guess it could be fixed by now.



PA515


Finally a pic. I posted about this ages ago and nobody replied. Thank you :)
Plane mad!
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:18 pm

Does anyone know what that 'By Invitation Only' rooms in the Koru Lounges are?

Cheers,

C.
 
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Zkpilot
Posts: 4573
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:21 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:27 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
Does anyone know what that 'By Invitation Only' rooms in the Koru Lounges are?

Cheers,

C.

Presume it’s for EP1 customers (that’s invite only status above Gold Elite. NZ’s version of QF’s Chairman’s Lounge).
64 types. 45 countries. 24 airlines.
 
NZ516
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:44 am

Seven sharp did a story on the future of Kapiti Coast Airport tonight this will be an interest to some:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/seven-shar ... ti-airport
 
Whoopeecock
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:35 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:18 am

LYuen wrote:
planemanofnz wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Perhaps AIR NZ could operate a Whangarei to Wellington Q300 service to allow Northland people to connect to the rest of the nation.

Didn't this route used to operate in the past, with the B1900D? Is it something Sounds Air could perhaps explore? The PC-12 has the range.

You do raise an interesting point more broadly - the potential for new domestic routes during this current period - e.g. the odd ZQN - HLZ etc.

Cheers,

C.

I would like to see Air NZ utilizing other airports to strengthen the North Island-South Island/WLG link when AKL is basically inaccessible now.
I remember HLZ is capable of operating A320? That could be a solution, flying HLZ-WLG, HLZ-CHC with the jet.


What is the demand from HLZ to other cities though? It’s not just the airport, it’s the people of Auckland that can’t get out. So without them, there goes the demand and need for an A320 to fly to WLG or CHC. Basically just normal demand only warranting the normal flights on an AT7.

What I don’t understand is why there seems to still be multiple flights from AKL to ZQN. While today only had 2 Jetstar flights, yesterday had 2 JQ, and 4 NZ. Surely they’re not still “reparation” flights with people needing to get hoke to ZQN a week after L3 occurred?
I thought it was supposed to be near impossible to get in and out of Auckland with roadblocks, etc.
 
NZ516
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:19 pm

Whoopeecock wrote:
What is the demand from HLZ to other cities though? It’s not just the airport, it’s the people of Auckland that can’t get out. So without them, there goes the demand and need for an A320 to fly to WLG or CHC. Basically just normal demand only warranting the normal flights on an AT7.

What I don’t understand is why there seems to still be multiple flights from AKL to ZQN. While today only had 2 Jetstar flights, yesterday had 2 JQ, and 4 NZ. Surely they’re not still “reparation” flights with people needing to get hoke to ZQN a week after L3 occurred?
I thought it was supposed to be near impossible to get in and out of Auckland with roadblocks, etc.


The Hamilton demand is best served via multiple ATRs instead of one or two 320s per day. With 6-7 HLZ-WLG flights and 3-4 HLZ-CHC flights per day the public can get a wide choice of departure times with the current scheduling. The location of the airport is too far away to be suitable for the AKL market even when the route is open to them.

Also at the moment there is no more AKL to ZQN flying the list of flights from AKL is here:

Auckland – Christchurch 13 weekly
Auckland – Gisborne 3 weekly
Auckland – Kerikeri 7 weekly
Auckland – Napier 3 weekly
Auckland – Palmerston North 3 weekly
Auckland – Tauranga 3 weekly
Auckland – Wellington 7 weekly
Auckland – Whangarei 7 weekly

From: https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... perations/
 
NZ6
Posts: 1803
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:43 pm

NZ516 wrote:
Seven sharp did a story on the future of Kapiti Coast Airport tonight this will be an interest to some:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/seven-shar ... ti-airport


Reading between the lines the future is very much back to the hands of the community / city to make it work or the owners will explore other business opportunities which won't be in the form of aviation services.

I suspect they're looking for local funding or "subsidies" on rates etc etc.

To be honest if the land is in the hands of private developers. We can't really expect anything other than them investing in something which will return a profit to them..
 
PA515
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:35 pm

Air NZ 77E ZK-OKG appears to have just had an engine test at the western end of the main taxiway. It was towed from about position 75 in the International hard standing area, then back to the same spot. There was a report about a week ago that owned 77E ZK-OKC would be CHC-AKL in about a week to be prepared for a trip to VCV. I recall a mention somewhere that the leased 77Es (OKA, OKD, OKE and OKG) would be going to MZJ.

PA515
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:51 pm

NZ has been operating AKL-WLG flights with an ATR 72-600!
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1296187014367162368
Image

That has to be along time since an prop has operated that route on an regular service, Maybe OriginPacific did try at one stage?

Also NZ has started LAX-BNE freight flights operated by an 77W
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1295995140306112515
Image
 
NZ516
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 4:15 am

Speaking of Origin Air they have a third Jetstream now with the latest one being registered to them as ZK-JSK.
Be interesting to see what new route they announce with this perhaps NSN-HLZ or NSN-DUD.
http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2020/08/ ... icial.html
 
777ER
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Topic Author
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:17 am

zkncj wrote:
NZ has been operating AKL-WLG flights with an ATR 72-600!
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1296187014367162368
Image

That has to be along time since an prop has operated that route on an regular service, Maybe OriginPacific did try at one stage?

Also NZ has started LAX-BNE freight flights operated by an 77W
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1295995140306112515
Image

Origin Pacific launched WLG-AKL with two ATR72-200s around 1-2 years before going bust. The codeshare deal with QF really boosted their pax numbers enabling the two ATRs to join the fleet. At least one of those ATRs ended up with NZ in an Origin/NZ hybrid livery
Head Forum Moderator
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Flown: 1900D,S340,Q300,AT72-5/6,DC3,CR2/7,E145,E70/75/90,A319/20/21,A332/3,A359,A380,F100,B717,B733/4/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B763,B772/3, B789
With: NZ,SJ,QF,JQ,EK,VA,AA,UA,DL,FL,AC,FJ,SQ,TG,PR
 
planemanofnz
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:46 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:27 am

NZ516 wrote:
Speaking of Origin Air they have a third Jetstream now with the latest one being registered to them as ZK-JSK.
Be interesting to see what new route they announce with this perhaps NSN-HLZ or NSN-DUD.
http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2020/08/ ... icial.html

I'm not sure NSN to HLZ or DUD would work - what is the market there? Leisure pax?

Cheers,

C.
 
NZ516
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:41 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Speaking of Origin Air they have a third Jetstream now with the latest one being registered to them as ZK-JSK.
Be interesting to see what new route they announce with this perhaps NSN-HLZ or NSN-DUD.
http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2020/08/ ... icial.html

I'm not sure NSN to HLZ or DUD would work - what is the market there? Leisure pax?

Cheers,

C.


Local market was fairly decent for when KRA use to run a Saab on those routes. So a J32 etc should be ok with even less seats to fill.
 
NZ516
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:47 pm

Sounds Air confirms November start date for Christchurch to Wanaka service

Regional airline Sounds Air will launch a daily service between Christchurch and Wanaka in November.

Sounds Air chief executive Andrew Crawford said tickets will go on sale next month, with flights taking of from November 2.

“This is fantastic news, not just for Sounds Air, but for the communities of Wanaka and Christchurch who have been so supportive of this proposed service,” Crawford said.

“The survey we commissioned in June showed 90 per cent support from the 3600 respondents, which shows us that we have a ready market for this service.”


more:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122532 ... ka-service

Good news for the people of Wanaka hopefully it will get the approval it needs to start though. I expect the fares will be around $200 one way. Only really suits the business customers as a family of 4 flying will be very prohibitive..
 
mrkerr7474
Posts: 114
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:55 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:25 pm

777ER wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ has been operating AKL-WLG flights with an ATR 72-600!
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1296187014367162368
Image

That has to be along time since an prop has operated that route on an regular service, Maybe OriginPacific did try at one stage?

Also NZ has started LAX-BNE freight flights operated by an 77W
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1295995140306112515
Image

Origin Pacific launched WLG-AKL with two ATR72-200s around 1-2 years before going bust. The codeshare deal with QF really boosted their pax numbers enabling the two ATRs to join the fleet. At least one of those ATRs ended up with NZ in an Origin/NZ hybrid livery


A friend of mines was at WLG airport at the time of arrival of this ATR from AKL. Looking at the images he briefly snapped and looking at what was happening around the plane, it looks to have been another quarantine flight bringing further passengers to WLG for mandatory quarantine as it parked on the other side of the airport after landing which they did previously. Could have also been taking passengers out of WLG who had been under quarantine here but now going home for instance.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:28 pm

planemanofnz wrote:
NZ516 wrote:
Speaking of Origin Air they have a third Jetstream now with the latest one being registered to them as ZK-JSK.
Be interesting to see what new route they announce with this perhaps NSN-HLZ or NSN-DUD.
http://3rdlevelnz.blogspot.com/2020/08/ ... icial.html

I'm not sure NSN to HLZ or DUD would work - what is the market there? Leisure pax?

Cheers,

C.


This summer peak season there might be more demand, than normal.

After all there is going to likely no where to go outside of New Zealand for an summer break.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:30 pm

mrkerr7474 wrote:
777ER wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ has been operating AKL-WLG flights with an ATR 72-600!
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1296187014367162368
Image

That has to be along time since an prop has operated that route on an regular service, Maybe OriginPacific did try at one stage?

Also NZ has started LAX-BNE freight flights operated by an 77W
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1295995140306112515
Image

Origin Pacific launched WLG-AKL with two ATR72-200s around 1-2 years before going bust. The codeshare deal with QF really boosted their pax numbers enabling the two ATRs to join the fleet. At least one of those ATRs ended up with NZ in an Origin/NZ hybrid livery


A friend of mines was at WLG airport at the time of arrival of this ATR from AKL. Looking at the images he briefly snapped and looking at what was happening around the plane, it looks to have been another quarantine flight bringing further passengers to WLG for mandatory quarantine as it parked on the other side of the airport after landing which they did previously. Could have also been taking passengers out of WLG who had been under quarantine here but now going home for instance.


Some days over the past week, there has been bookable ATR flights between AKL and WLG.

This week there has been less flights on this route, than in the 1960s....
 
tealnz
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:47 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:33 am

This may have been asked previously but does anyone know why domestic A320 services out of Wellington were shifted to the international terminal? It's a pain in the butt for pax.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:13 am

tealnz wrote:
This may have been asked previously but does anyone know why domestic A320 services out of Wellington were shifted to the international terminal? It's a pain in the butt for pax.


It’s an covid saver idea brought to you by AVSEC/WIAL, far cheaper to run the smaller and less socially distanced domestic check-point over at the JQ side. Than running both domestic check points.

Along with allot of AVSEC staff are currently deployed as Isolation Hotel Guards.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:23 am

Singapore is to open up travel from New Zealand from 1 September 2020. You will need to have an covid test upon arrival, and isolate until your test result is returned. Although you will be required to isolation in an managed hotel, and free to explore once your test is returned negative!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/singapore-opens-new-zealand-travel-bubble
 
AviatorNZ
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:07 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:58 am

mrkerr7474 wrote:
777ER wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ has been operating AKL-WLG flights with an ATR 72-600!
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1296187014367162368
Image

That has to be along time since an prop has operated that route on an regular service, Maybe OriginPacific did try at one stage?

Also NZ has started LAX-BNE freight flights operated by an 77W
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1295995140306112515
Image

Origin Pacific launched WLG-AKL with two ATR72-200s around 1-2 years before going bust. The codeshare deal with QF really boosted their pax numbers enabling the two ATRs to join the fleet. At least one of those ATRs ended up with NZ in an Origin/NZ hybrid livery


A friend of mines was at WLG airport at the time of arrival of this ATR from AKL. Looking at the images he briefly snapped and looking at what was happening around the plane, it looks to have been another quarantine flight bringing further passengers to WLG for mandatory quarantine as it parked on the other side of the airport after landing which they did previously. Could have also been taking passengers out of WLG who had been under quarantine here but now going home for instance.

That would've been a different flight. This one was a scheduled passenger service.
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7802
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 4:18 am

zkncj wrote:
Singapore is to open up travel from New Zealand from 1 September 2020. You will need to have an covid test upon arrival, and isolate until your test result is returned. Although you will be required to isolation in an managed hotel, and free to explore once your test is returned negative!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/singapore-opens-new-zealand-travel-bubble


That’s nice if you want to pay for your 14 day isolation when you return.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 6:31 am

ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Singapore is to open up travel from New Zealand from 1 September 2020. You will need to have an covid test upon arrival, and isolate until your test result is returned. Although you will be required to isolation in an managed hotel, and free to explore once your test is returned negative!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/singapore-opens-new-zealand-travel-bubble


That’s nice if you want to pay for your 14 day isolation when you return.


Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.
 
xiaotung
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:13 am

zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Singapore is to open up travel from New Zealand from 1 September 2020. You will need to have an covid test upon arrival, and isolate until your test result is returned. Although you will be required to isolation in an managed hotel, and free to explore once your test is returned negative!
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news/singapore-opens-new-zealand-travel-bubble


That’s nice if you want to pay for your 14 day isolation when you return.


Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.


Singapore is doing ok but not better than Melbounrne. Unless New Zealand changes strategy from elimination to suppression, really can't see that happening.

Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.
 
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MillwallSean
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:33 am

Sadly I don't see Singapore being realistic as things stand right now. presently there is between 50-100 new cases a day in SG. With New Zealand following elimination strategy that is a risk that wont be worth taking. As things stand, I see it as more likely that wed open with say Queensland etc.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:54 pm

MillwallSean wrote:
Sadly I don't see Singapore being realistic as things stand right now. presently there is between 50-100 new cases a day in SG. With New Zealand following elimination strategy that is a risk that wont be worth taking. As things stand, I see it as more likely that wed open with say Queensland etc.


Exactly, everywhere in Australia other than Melbourne would come long before Singapore.

The Singaporean government have been doing a good job of PR, telling the world about how how great they are, but the reality is that while Singapore is doing better than, say, Germany or the state of Victoria, infection numbers are much, much worse than New Zealand or anywhere else in Australia, including New South Wales.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
zkncj
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:48 am

xiaotung wrote:
Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


Which does beg the question, how much longer will NZ hold on to hope of retaining an Long-Haul operation.

With the 777s fate pretty much sealed, if the current elimination stance it’s to keep up for another 18-24months. Surely there will become an point that the 789s are put on the chopping block too?

NZ is still running an pretty decent long-haul network, although surely that can’t go on with current passenger demand for much longer.
 
Toenga
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Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 3:00 am

zkncj wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


Which does beg the question, how much longer will NZ hold on to hope of retaining an Long-Haul operation.

With the 777s fate pretty much sealed, if the current elimination stance it’s to keep up for another 18-24months. Surely there will become an point that the 789s are put on the chopping block too?

NZ is still running an pretty decent long-haul network, although surely that can’t go on with current passenger demand for much longer.

I sense the airline/government strategy mirrors that taken to stabilise strategic tourism businesses and their core assets either by mothballing or operating at low levels of activity rather then to loose them entirely because of lack of critical maintenance. It is much quicker and cheaper to recommission stabilised assets then start up from scratch. Once things start up again those businesses that have survived will face reduced competition as others have disappeared.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 6:47 am

zkncj wrote:
Which does beg the question, how much longer will NZ hold on to hope of retaining an Long-Haul operation.

With the 777s fate pretty much sealed, if the current elimination stance it’s to keep up for another 18-24months. Surely there will become an point that the 789s are put on the chopping block too?

NZ is still running an pretty decent long-haul network, although surely that can’t go on with current passenger demand for much longer.

I think you underestimate the importance of NZ’s long-haul services to the nation. I seriously doubt that the majority shareholder would agree to canning long-haul services since we cannot rely on foreign carriers to meet our (strategic) needs

As for the 789s: I’d suggest there was zero chance of them being put on the block. After all, carriers the world over are facing the same pressures and almost no one is buying used planes right now.
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
ZK-NBT
Posts: 7802
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2000 5:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:11 am

DavidByrne wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Which does beg the question, how much longer will NZ hold on to hope of retaining an Long-Haul operation.

With the 777s fate pretty much sealed, if the current elimination stance it’s to keep up for another 18-24months. Surely there will become an point that the 789s are put on the chopping block too?

NZ is still running an pretty decent long-haul network, although surely that can’t go on with current passenger demand for much longer.

I think you underestimate the importance of NZ’s long-haul services to the nation. I seriously doubt that the majority shareholder would agree to canning long-haul services since we cannot rely on foreign carriers to meet our (strategic) needs

As for the 789s: I’d suggest there was zero chance of them being put on the block. After all, carriers the world over are facing the same pressures and almost no one is buying used planes right now.


Yes I agree, initially I could see NZ serving key hubs a bit 1980-90s like, whenever Covid goes away, NRT/HKG/SIN/PVG/HNL/LAX, maybe a few others. Anyway who knows when that will be, will the rest of the world open up and New Zealand not? The thing is we can’t go like we are now for to long as a country but how long will that be?
 
User avatar
spinotter
Posts: 851
Joined: Wed May 27, 2015 1:37 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:33 pm

xiaotung wrote:
zkncj wrote:
ZK-NBT wrote:

That’s nice if you want to pay for your 14 day isolation when you return.


Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.


Singapore is doing ok but not better than Melbounrne. Unless New Zealand changes strategy from elimination to suppression, really can't see that happening.

Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


I wonder if elimination is even possible, at least in the short term. Look at China and New Zealand - total lockdown and minimim international travel with testing and isolation for every incoming traveler. How can that work once these countries reopen more fully, say to hordes of American and Brazilian tourists. Can there be elimination?
 
ZaphodHarkonnen
Posts: 1093
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:20 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:28 pm

spinotter wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.


Singapore is doing ok but not better than Melbounrne. Unless New Zealand changes strategy from elimination to suppression, really can't see that happening.

Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


I wonder if elimination is even possible, at least in the short term. Look at China and New Zealand - total lockdown and minimim international travel with testing and isolation for every incoming traveler. How can that work once these countries reopen more fully, say to hordes of American and Brazilian tourists. Can there be elimination?


Right now the short and medium term focus of elimination is to buy time while research effort is expended in finding treatments and vaccines. If in a couple of years it looks like we won't have any of those, then things can be tweaked.

While it may impact and effectively destroy long haul travel, the response we've been using is effective at minimizing the impact to the economy as a whole.
 
a7ala
Posts: 377
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:27 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:57 pm

zkncj wrote:
tealnz wrote:
This may have been asked previously but does anyone know why domestic A320 services out of Wellington were shifted to the international terminal? It's a pain in the butt for pax.


It’s an covid saver idea brought to you by AVSEC/WIAL, far cheaper to run the smaller and less socially distanced domestic check-point over at the JQ side. Than running both domestic check points.

Along with allot of AVSEC staff are currently deployed as Isolation Hotel Guards.


Actually no nothing to do with WIAL - requested by the airlines.
 
NZ516
Posts: 597
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:21 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 23, 2020 11:02 pm

More details on Sounds Air new Wanaka service. The flight will take approx 45 mins and tickets will sell between $159 and $279 one way. Due to the runway not having lights at Wanaka flights will have to land and depart during daylight hours. Flights will depart around 0730 or 0800 from Wanaka and the return will vary during winter hours. They will use the former Air New Zealand terminal building.

more:
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/wanaka/so ... d-imminent
 
zkeoj
Posts: 1240
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:00 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:15 am

777ER wrote:
zkncj wrote:
NZ has been operating AKL-WLG flights with an ATR 72-600!
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1296187014367162368
Image

That has to be along time since an prop has operated that route on an regular service, Maybe OriginPacific did try at one stage?

Also NZ has started LAX-BNE freight flights operated by an 77W
https://twitter.com/CamWallace_NZ/status/1295995140306112515
Image

Origin Pacific launched WLG-AKL with two ATR72-200s around 1-2 years before going bust. The codeshare deal with QF really boosted their pax numbers enabling the two ATRs to join the fleet. At least one of those ATRs ended up with NZ in an Origin/NZ hybrid livery


Indeed: https://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/p ... 02447.html
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:46 am

With domestic travel allowed to/from AKL from Monday, under the new level 2 rules masks are required.

Does the mask requirements, therefore remove the requirement to leave the middle seat empty?

Flight ex-AKL early next week, seem to be getting snapped up very fast.
 
PA515
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 6:17 am

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:42 am

ex Air NZ A320-232 ZK-OJH (msn 2257) leased from AerCap was removed from the New Zealand register today. I don't think it has left CHC yet, so maybe tomorrow.

PA515
 
NZ321
Posts: 1380
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 8:00 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:44 am

spinotter wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.


Singapore is doing ok but not better than Melbounrne. Unless New Zealand changes strategy from elimination to suppression, really can't see that happening.

Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


I wonder if elimination is even possible, at least in the short term. Look at China and New Zealand - total lockdown and minimim international travel with testing and isolation for every incoming traveler. How can that work once these countries reopen more fully, say to hordes of American and Brazilian tourists. Can there be elimination?


Elimination in this situation doesn't mean eradication. It means keeping it at the border and putting arrivals in quarantine for 2 weeks.
Plane mad!
 
xiaotung
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 7:58 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 12:18 pm

spinotter wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.


Singapore is doing ok but not better than Melbounrne. Unless New Zealand changes strategy from elimination to suppression, really can't see that happening.

Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


I wonder if elimination is even possible, at least in the short term. Look at China and New Zealand - total lockdown and minimim international travel with testing and isolation for every incoming traveler. How can that work once these countries reopen more fully, say to hordes of American and Brazilian tourists. Can there be elimination?


I imagine if no vaccine is found by mid-2021, governments around the world will be forced to look at alternatives whether it be travel bubble with countries with similar case number or developing rapid testing. China largely does not rely on inbound international travellers. They have a huge domestic market and their domestic air capacity is already some 80% pre-COVID-19 level and in some cases domestic tourism is even booming from those who would otherwise spend the money overseas. But keeping the borders closed is totally unsustainable to most other countries with very limited domestic market.
 
zkncj
Posts: 4166
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 5:33 pm

We’ve made this decision in response to the recent Alert level changes across New Zealand. Under Alert Level 2 airlines are required to seat passengers in a socially distanced manner. As a low cost carrier, Jetstar is unable to continue its operations in New Zealand whilst these requirements remain in place.

As a result, we’re offering you the option to postpone your travel to depart between the 7th of September and the 24th of September for free. Alternatively, you can request a Jetstar credit voucher to the full value of your untraveled flight.


Turns out that Jetstar, will not operate under level 2! Just got this email for flights that I booked last night.

Surely with face mask the blocking the middle seat could be remove, as an travel at your own risk....
 
torin
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 7:53 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:45 pm

PA515 wrote:
ex Air NZ A320-232 ZK-OJH (msn 2257) leased from AerCap was removed from the New Zealand register today. I don't think it has left CHC yet, so maybe tomorrow.

PA515


Still in Christchurch, now registered OE-ILI.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:46 pm

spinotter wrote:
xiaotung wrote:
zkncj wrote:

Hopefully Singapore is an country that New Zealand, could work with for an safe travel bubble in early 2021!

AKL-SIN in SQ J would be an great way to celebrate international travel again.


Singapore is doing ok but not better than Melbounrne. Unless New Zealand changes strategy from elimination to suppression, really can't see that happening.

Seems like Rob Fyfe doesn't have the patience for elimination for the long term and he has been hired by the government as business advisor but not that the government will listen to him more than the medical experts.


I wonder if elimination is even possible, at least in the short term. Look at China and New Zealand - total lockdown and minimim international travel with testing and isolation for every incoming traveler. How can that work once these countries reopen more fully, say to hordes of American and Brazilian tourists. Can there be elimination?


Well it must be possible as it's been done before.

Not sure if you're local or not but have a read of what's defined as elimination, elimination is not eradication and isn't a permanent state but a place in time which is constantly reassessed.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/dis ... ew-zealand

You're point is still valid, but you're really asking is elimination is sustainable without border measures. simple answer is no way! it's almost impossible to remain at eliminated state with them.

So as these countries reopen NZ will need to remain shut... for how long is the ultimate question and is this the correct approach.

It's a matter of opinion. But for me, yes it's the correct approach. But how long do we stay shut for is the million dollar question. It seems we've placed all our eggs in one basket and are banking on a vaccine being available at some point.

The sticky point will be, what if that's not within the next 12 months. What if it's 2-3 years away. How long do we do this for?
 
NZ6
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:49 pm

zkncj wrote:
We’ve made this decision in response to the recent Alert level changes across New Zealand. Under Alert Level 2 airlines are required to seat passengers in a socially distanced manner. As a low cost carrier, Jetstar is unable to continue its operations in New Zealand whilst these requirements remain in place.

As a result, we’re offering you the option to postpone your travel to depart between the 7th of September and the 24th of September for free. Alternatively, you can request a Jetstar credit voucher to the full value of your untraveled flight.


Turns out that Jetstar, will not operate under level 2! Just got this email for flights that I booked last night.

Surely with face mask the blocking the middle seat could be remove, as an travel at your own risk....


I don't think there's any room for COVID and "at your own risk" being put together. Even with the middle seat removed you're still well within the 2m radius of another person.

Masks also prevent any potential virus landing on surfaces.
 
NZ6
Posts: 1803
Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 6:50 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:54 pm

Are JQ pulling the middle finger to NZ again?

All the talk of being there for Kiwis and offering affordable pricing yet the moment level 2 restrictions kick in, they pull the plug and stop ALL flights.

We want and need domestic tourism and regional travel to occur as much as we can.
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1821
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: New Zealand Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:25 pm

NZ6 wrote:
Are JQ pulling the middle finger to NZ again?

All the talk of being there for Kiwis and offering affordable pricing yet the moment level 2 restrictions kick in, they pull the plug and stop ALL flights.

We want and need domestic tourism and regional travel to occur as much as we can.

Not quite sure what you're saying. I think you're suggesting that JQ should operate at two-thirds capacity, which for an LCC is a guarantee they'd make a loss. Unless, of course, they raised their fares by 50% and still "filled" their planes.Do they have an obligation to serve NZers? No - they have a right to do so, but not an obligation. And frankly, I don't hear ANY airline talking about "affordable pricing" right at the moment.

I'm no great fan of JQ (though I frequently have used them for their "affordable pricing") but I think that private companies need to be allowed to make their own decisions about how they adjust their operations to cope with the pandemic. Unless, of course, the government plays a financial role, as they do with NZ's international operations.

[Never thought I'd find myself supporting JQ . . . !]
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife

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