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ClassicLover
Posts: 4893
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:10 pm

eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
DavidByrne
Posts: 1672
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 4:42 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:38 pm

[deleted]
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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qf2220
Posts: 1974
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 12:45 am

ClassicLover wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.


Just checking, how do you get back out? Because once your back I understand we cannot leave the country?
 
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RyanairGuru
Posts: 8418
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:19 am

qf2220 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.


Just checking, how do you get back out? Because once your back I understand we cannot leave the country?


If you are an Australian citizen ordinarily resident overseas you are allowed to return to your home country.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
timtam
Posts: 310
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:02 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 2:01 am

ClassicLover wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.


Missuse of the limited quarantine resources available. Poor form.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:00 am

timtam wrote:
Missuse of the limited quarantine resources available. Poor form.


You think? What's your rationale behind that then? I'm curious to hear your view.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
JQ321
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:40 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:55 am

ClassicLover wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.

Why would you not be paying for Quarantine. All states now charge for that. I don't see how booking before something comes into effect changes anything. The NT announced new restrictions while a plane was in the air and the passengers had to pay.
 
BAeRJ100
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:28 am

ClassicLover wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.


Yeah, good luck with that. You aren't grandfathered into the old way of things. Everyone pays for their own quarantine regardless of when the travel was booked.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
cpd
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:37 am

JQ321 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
I'd put that number at almost zero unless a very close family member was at death's door. I can't see any overseas based Australian wanting to come back home and spend 2 weeks of their hard earned vacation time in hotel quarantine at their own expense.


One of my colleagues had the bright idea (and obvious when you think about it!) that I should go to Australia to see my family. Just spend the two weeks in hotel quarantine "working from home" and doing my usual job while stuck in the hotel for the two weeks. Then, once out of quarantine, that is when my annual leave begins. An elegant solution and one I completely expect to take up. I've had flights booked since February, so I'll not get charged for the quarantine, so as far as I know, I'll be going.

Others could probably do the same thing, now the entire world has pivoted to working from home for those in office based occupations at any rate.

Why would you not be paying for Quarantine. All states now charge for that. I don't see how booking before something comes into effect changes anything. The NT announced new restrictions while a plane was in the air and the passengers had to pay.


If you are a special person (or have friends in high places), you don’t need to be locked up in a hotel, you get to stay in your luxury house at no cost.

The quarantine costs means I will not do the postponed (to next year) bike racing I booked last year. They don’t want to refund my entry fees and accommodation and I don’t feel like forking over thousands more to stay in Fawlty Towers because some idiots can’t obey quarantine rules. I’ll just consider the money lost. It’s also whatever the cost of first class tickets is that I won’t be spending next year. Thank heavens I didn’t book any flights at the start of this year. Frustrating, the money is gone and all the hard work and preparation is wasted.

It especially grates when I’ve effectively kept myself distanced and isolated for months. No restaurants, no bars, no gatherings, nothing. My normal outdoor exercise I’ve stopped too. I’m doing my bit, but seems others won’t.

The airline industry will be totally wrecked if this pandemic doesn’t come under control / or isn’t eliminated soon
 
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ClassicLover
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:27 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 11:52 am

JQ321 wrote:
Why would you not be paying for Quarantine. All states now charge for that. I don't see how booking before something comes into effect changes anything. The NT announced new restrictions while a plane was in the air and the passengers had to pay.


BAeRJ100 wrote:
Yeah, good luck with that. You aren't grandfathered into the old way of things. Everyone pays for their own quarantine regardless of when the travel was booked.


https://www.nsw.gov.au/covid-19/what-you-can-and-cant-do-under-rules/quarantine#fees-for-quarantine

"You will need to provide evidence to Revenue NSW and meet conditions for a fee exemption if you are

an international traveller who purchased an international airfare prior to 11:59pm on 12 July 2020 (Australian Eastern Standard Time), or arrived prior to 12:01am on 18 July 2020(Australian Eastern Standard Time)"

As I purchased my ticket in February, I will be exempt from the quarantine fees.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
PERA346
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Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:19 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 3:40 pm

ClassicLover wrote:
timtam wrote:
Missuse of the limited quarantine resources available. Poor form.


You think? What's your rationale behind that then? I'm curious to hear your view.

Considering that there is an arrival cap into the limited capital cities that are open at the moment, the fact that you intend to come for what seems to be a visit rather than repatriation seems like poor form. There are hundreds if not thousands of Australians who are stuck overseas with no means to get home because they can’t afford the exorbitant airfares or simply because there aren’t enough seats. That’s what is poor form.
 
Toenga
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:03 pm

Both New Zealand and Australia are grappling with constrained managed quarantine capacity.
Facilities need meet a number of very specific requirements be able to meet the housing, catering, and social welfare needs, such as exercise, and quality internet access for the internees, all while maintaining seperation between internees, seperation with facilities staff, and a secure perimeter, to ensure separation from the community at large. Remember these internees are people who have done no wrong, and many have been traumatised by covid disruption. Perhaps the only buildings most closely designed to meet these constraints are our prisons, but apart from unsuitablity, the capacity is already required.
Repurposing hotels is a bodge, and only a few are suitable.
Only incremental opportunities are available to increase capacity.
Both countries are now getting a lot more experience with the characteristics of progression of the disease, and how this relates to testing requirements. The number of people testing clear on the 4th day test but then positive on the 12th day test shows that shortening the quarantine period will result in more border incursions.
The border incursion in New Zealand shows the cost of just one incursion could be close to a billion dollars.
These costs are so high, it would be impossible for private quarantine providers to provide adequate indemnification for the consequences of any failures. But without adequate indemnification it would be incredibly unwise of any government to sub contract out quarantine, given the magnitude of the cost of any failures.
So what is left, is how to allocate this limited capacity, balancing the very real humanitarian consequences with economic opportunities.
Being government in a pandemic like this, is very very hard. We owe huge amount to some very dedicated politicians, public servants, and health workers.
 
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bjwonline
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:58 am

PERA346 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:
timtam wrote:
Missuse of the limited quarantine resources available. Poor form.


You think? What's your rationale behind that then? I'm curious to hear your view.

Considering that there is an arrival cap into the limited capital cities that are open at the moment, the fact that you intend to come for what seems to be a visit rather than repatriation seems like poor form. There are hundreds if not thousands of Australians who are stuck overseas with no means to get home because they can’t afford the exorbitant airfares or simply because there aren’t enough seats. That’s what is poor form.


Who are we to say that their reason for entering Australia is any less deserving than anyone else's. There are endless examples of people here in Australia very much struggling with the movement restrictions which prevent them from spending time with loved ones. But we here in Australia know that will ease again and soon enough. Imagine how it must feel for those Aussies living overseas who have no idea on when they will get to see their loved ones here at home. It comes as no surprise to me at all to hear some people in this situation are looking for work arounds to get some time with their families. At no point have they suggested any breach of the quarantine requirements, they are happy to comply with all the rules that apply to them and anyone else who would be in that same situation. Australia has not placed eligibility criteria on citizens wanting to fly into this country, only capacity restrictions. So if they can book a flight at a time that will allow them to fit within the capacity limits, then I say go for it and good luck to them.
 
Qantas16
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 6:25 am

qf2220 wrote:
Qantas16 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:

Is CX doing Wellcamp direct? I noticed a 773 flight departing SYD-WTB the other day.


CX has been doing a HKG-MEL-WTB-HKG service weekly with a 747 Freighter for a while now but have increased over the last couple of months to introduce a weekly HKG-SYD-WTB-HKG service with a 77W pax aircraft (though only carrying cargo). Not surprising that it's not doing direct into WTB from HKG as there is significantly less demand for inbound freight and would also introduce complexities with crewing.

SQ recently introduced a once weekly SIN-SYD-WTB-SIN service with the A359 pax aircraft, again only carrying cargo. This service was initially meant to run for 6 weeks but has been extended further.


This is probably what you mean but SIN/HKG-SYD/MEL would be carrying more inbound freight closer to where it needs to go (ie the major cities) and the WTB leg would probably be picking up more agricultural/horticultural goods to go back to HKG/SIN.


Oh yes for sure, meant that the inbound demand for freight to WTB is very small - understand that SYD/MEL is much higher inbound demand. Just had a look at BITRE for June, inbound freight to WTB for CX and SQ was actually zero for the month (though June 2019 CX brought it 22.5 tonnes). Outbound was obviously much higher (226.9 tonnes for CX and 21.4 tonnes for SQ - believe SQ only had one flight in June). WTB had a 237% increase for the month vs June 2019. Makes sense given the increase in CX and SQ flights.
 
timtam
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 4:13 pm

bjwonline wrote:
PERA346 wrote:
ClassicLover wrote:

You think? What's your rationale behind that then? I'm curious to hear your view.

Considering that there is an arrival cap into the limited capital cities that are open at the moment, the fact that you intend to come for what seems to be a visit rather than repatriation seems like poor form. There are hundreds if not thousands of Australians who are stuck overseas with no means to get home because they can’t afford the exorbitant airfares or simply because there aren’t enough seats. That’s what is poor form.


Who are we to say that their reason for entering Australia is any less deserving than anyone else's. There are endless examples of people here in Australia very much struggling with the movement restrictions which prevent them from spending time with loved ones. But we here in Australia know that will ease again and soon enough. Imagine how it must feel for those Aussies living overseas who have no idea on when they will get to see their loved ones here at home. It comes as no surprise to me at all to hear some people in this situation are looking for work arounds to get some time with their families. At no point have they suggested any breach of the quarantine requirements, they are happy to comply with all the rules that apply to them and anyone else who would be in that same situation. Australia has not placed eligibility criteria on citizens wanting to fly into this country, only capacity restrictions. So if they can book a flight at a time that will allow them to fit within the capacity limits, then I say go for it and good luck to them.


Value and risk judgements have already been made in tbe current rules. Limited resources are being allocated on this basis.
This is a loophole that someone is seeking to exploit for their own personal advantage and at taxpayers expense and increase the risks for everyone else.
 
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ClassicLover
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Sun Aug 16, 2020 5:05 pm

timtam wrote:
Value and risk judgements have already been made in tbe current rules. Limited resources are being allocated on this basis.
This is a loophole that someone is seeking to exploit for their own personal advantage and at taxpayers expense and increase the risks for everyone else.


Oh come now, it's not a loophole being exploited at all, it's a stated policy. It's not like someone can pretend they booked before 12 July. You're entitled to your opinion though, so thanks for sharing.

Meanwhile, has anyone taken any of the Antarctica flights before? I've seen a few bits and pieces online about them and am curious about how much you see of the continent. Is it worth it for "four hours over the ice" when the rest of the flight is just a flight? Is it as big a party as some say? It's something I'd like to take my parents on sometime perhaps.
I do enjoy a spot of flying, especially when it's not in economy!
 
grh
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Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:19 am

Going into quarantine ....

Isn't there is risk of catching the virus on the flight to Aus or within quarantine and dying.

That could be a down side.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:04 am

SimpleFlying suggests that Amazon is behind the rumoured 'new airline' operating B757s or B767s out of BNE, with it being part of the Amazon Prime network and could also include flights to NZ.

https://simpleflying.com/amazon-interna ... line-rumor
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:06 am

Qantas to report on FY2020 this coming Thursday morning, analysts expect a very small profit of around $25m owing to decent performance in pre-COVID months.

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... t-forecast
 
aschachter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:44 am

Student Flights to resume to Adelaide in September

https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... ide-85614/

My question is, how many will use this to fly into Adelaide and then fly straight away into Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane to get around the quotas?

Also, how many will try to avoid 14 day quarantine and say they have come from Adelaide instead of overseas?
 
ArtV
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:56 am

aschachter wrote:
Student Flights to resume to Adelaide in September

https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... ide-85614/

My question is, how many will use this to fly into Adelaide and then fly straight away into Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane to get around the quotas?

Also, how many will try to avoid 14 day quarantine and say they have come from Adelaide instead of overseas?


These flights are being funded/sponsored by the Universities for certain students that have enrolled in and paid good money to attend. They are not individual travellers, and are coming for a specific purpose - with arrangements with Universities around ongoing courses/studies.
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:17 am

aschachter wrote:
Student Flights to resume to Adelaide in September

https://australianaviation.com.au/2020/ ... ide-85614/

My question is, how many will use this to fly into Adelaide and then fly straight away into Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane to get around the quotas?

Also, how many will try to avoid 14 day quarantine and say they have come from Adelaide instead of overseas?


All arriving passengers will enter 14 day mandatory quarantine on arrival in Adelaide, regardless of their final destination. Unless you are suggesting that SA Police are somehow going to let them abscond your second and third paragraphs are irrellevant as the questions are completely without basis.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
aschachter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:24 am

Maybe, I could have worded my questions better.

I didn’t realise the flights were to be funded by SA Universities as I thought students from NSW or Victorian Universities may have tried to use these flights to fly into Australia and enter through SA.

Also, if the students are taken from the airport to the hotel, then quarantine will work correctly.

Maybe this is just the Melbournian Cynic in me, like other Victorians is trying to get through our Stage 4 restrictions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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RyanairGuru
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:15 am

aschachter wrote:
Maybe, I could have worded my questions better.

I didn’t realise the flights were to be funded by SA Universities as I thought students from NSW or Victorian Universities may have tried to use these flights to fly into Australia and enter through SA.

Also, if the students are taken from the airport to the hotel, then quarantine will work correctly.

Maybe this is just the Melbournian Cynic in me, like other Victorians is trying to get through our Stage 4 restrictions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even if students in other states are able to access these flights they will still have to quarantine in ADL, just like any other international flight. International passengers are taken directly to their quarantine hotel under police/ADF escort. They quarantine in their city of arrival, regardless of where they are heading.

The same applies to all other arrivals. Statically if you are flying to Australia you will arrive in SYD as they are accepting 350 arrivals per day, as opposed to 300-500 per week for BNE, ADL or PER, and 0 for MEL. Regardless of what state you live in, you would quarantine in Sydney under the auspices of NSW Health and NSW Police.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
aschachter
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:53 am

qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj



Given Virgin are going to downsize its' fleet by reducing to a 737 fleet and removing the A320s (Virgin and Ex-Tiger), A330s and 777-300ers (Stored), I don't remember reading that Virgin were going to return excess 737s as well...
 
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qf2220
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:09 am

History question. Ive had a look around but cant see anything definitive. Why did Qantas drop the Cityflyer moniker they used to use on the intercapital routes?
 
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Chipmunk1973
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:35 am

qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj


So with a fleet of 10 jets, what kind of schedule could they fly on the BNE-MEL-SYD triangle?
Cheers,
C1973


B707, B717, B727, B734, B737, B738, B743, B77W, A300, A320, A332, A333, A339, A388, BAe146, Cessna 206.
 
Deano969
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:38 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj


So with a fleet of 10 jets, what kind of schedule could they fly on the BNE-MEL-SYD triangle?



They could do hourly in theory
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:10 am

Chipmunk1973 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj


So with a fleet of 10 jets, what kind of schedule could they fly on the BNE-MEL-SYD triangle?


I think REX's capital city schedule will be build to tie in with its regional schedule, so that somebody flying from regional QLD into BNE will have the option to hop onto a REX flight to SYD or MEL. Obviously it won't be that easy but I think REX would want to begin by ensuring its own regional customers can continue their journey on REX metal.
 
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CraigAnderson
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:12 am

Looks like the court decision for Virgin Australia's bond-holder group vs Deloitte is out, Bain not the outright winner but certainly didn't lose!

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ondholders
https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/busine ... 55mj1.html
 
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SCFlyer
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:20 am

With Temasek (Broad Peak)'s attempt to gain control of VA through the "back door" scrubbed by the courts, the old "Singapore to take over VA" 'fake news' that dogged the headlines over the past 8 years can be finally put to rest.

SQ wanted nothing to do with VA from a financial perspective after VA filed voluntary administration, their parent (Temasek) probably should've followed their subsidiary's advice, imo.

At least for the foreseeable future.
 
tullamarine
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 9:24 am

Deano969 wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:
qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj


So with a fleet of 10 jets, what kind of schedule could they fly on the BNE-MEL-SYD triangle?



They could do hourly in theory

Not quite. An hourly service for MEL-SYD-MEL requires 4 aircraft and even then the tight turns mean the risk of knock-on delays will result in a terrible OTP performance problem. The same applies for SYD-BNE-SYD. A MEL-BNE-MEL service every 3 hours would require 2 aircraft. That is all 10 aircraft used and no spares for maintenance /breakdowns. Realistically the best they can probably do on MEL-SYD-BNE is every 90 minutes.

The other issue is an hourly or 90 minute service may be too much during the middle of the day meaning the aircraft are idle and utilisation is ordinary. They could expand into other sectors such as OOL etc to smooth over these times but you'd expect VA and JQ to be brutally competitive against such a move.

I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 10:25 am

tullamarine wrote:
Deano969 wrote:
Chipmunk1973 wrote:

So with a fleet of 10 jets, what kind of schedule could they fly on the BNE-MEL-SYD triangle?



They could do hourly in theory

Not quite. An hourly service for MEL-SYD-MEL requires 4 aircraft and even then the tight turns mean the risk of knock-on delays will result in a terrible OTP performance problem. The same applies for SYD-BNE-SYD. A MEL-BNE-MEL service every 3 hours would require 2 aircraft. That is all 10 aircraft used and no spares for maintenance /breakdowns. Realistically the best they can probably do on MEL-SYD-BNE is every 90 minutes.

The other issue is an hourly or 90 minute service may be too much during the middle of the day meaning the aircraft are idle and utilisation is ordinary. They could expand into other sectors such as OOL etc to smooth over these times but you'd expect VA and JQ to be brutally competitive against such a move.

I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.


I doubt Rex are after corporate traffic or want to invest in lounges etc. What you will probably see is Mon-Fri 6am-9am and 4pm-7pm peaks on the triangle with the odd extra flight mid-day or BNE-MEL nonstops. Maintenance on Saturdays/Sunday mornings. 10 aircraft should cover it fine.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:37 am

eta unknown wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Deano969 wrote:


They could do hourly in theory

Not quite. An hourly service for MEL-SYD-MEL requires 4 aircraft and even then the tight turns mean the risk of knock-on delays will result in a terrible OTP performance problem. The same applies for SYD-BNE-SYD. A MEL-BNE-MEL service every 3 hours would require 2 aircraft. That is all 10 aircraft used and no spares for maintenance /breakdowns. Realistically the best they can probably do on MEL-SYD-BNE is every 90 minutes.

The other issue is an hourly or 90 minute service may be too much during the middle of the day meaning the aircraft are idle and utilisation is ordinary. They could expand into other sectors such as OOL etc to smooth over these times but you'd expect VA and JQ to be brutally competitive against such a move.

I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.


I doubt Rex are after corporate traffic or want to invest in lounges etc. What you will probably see is Mon-Fri 6am-9am and 4pm-7pm peaks on the triangle with the odd extra flight mid-day or BNE-MEL nonstops. Maintenance on Saturdays/Sunday mornings. 10 aircraft should cover it fine.


REX do have some basic lounges already in place in SYD MEL and ADL. Even though ADL has not been mentioned I would expect some flights from there to MEL/SYD and perhaps BNE.

Gov/corporate travel will book and connect all the way through from the regional network especially if their policy is BFOD.
REX will appear on these online booking tools ahead of Jetstar (due to ease of booking and agency control) so as long as they don't try to price gouge like they do on monpoly routes. They will fill the seats. Every 90m-2hrs would be enough.

I would think that once international travel returns there would be an SQ interline/codeshare which would help fill some seats.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 11:57 am

qantas747 wrote:
eta unknown wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Not quite. An hourly service for MEL-SYD-MEL requires 4 aircraft and even then the tight turns mean the risk of knock-on delays will result in a terrible OTP performance problem. The same applies for SYD-BNE-SYD. A MEL-BNE-MEL service every 3 hours would require 2 aircraft. That is all 10 aircraft used and no spares for maintenance /breakdowns. Realistically the best they can probably do on MEL-SYD-BNE is every 90 minutes.

The other issue is an hourly or 90 minute service may be too much during the middle of the day meaning the aircraft are idle and utilisation is ordinary. They could expand into other sectors such as OOL etc to smooth over these times but you'd expect VA and JQ to be brutally competitive against such a move.

I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.


I doubt Rex are after corporate traffic or want to invest in lounges etc. What you will probably see is Mon-Fri 6am-9am and 4pm-7pm peaks on the triangle with the odd extra flight mid-day or BNE-MEL nonstops. Maintenance on Saturdays/Sunday mornings. 10 aircraft should cover it fine.


REX do have some basic lounges already in place in SYD MEL and ADL. Even though ADL has not been mentioned I would expect some flights from there to MEL/SYD and perhaps BNE.

Gov/corporate travel will book and connect all the way through from the regional network especially if their policy is BFOD.
REX will appear on these online booking tools ahead of Jetstar (due to ease of booking and agency control) so as long as they don't try to price gouge like they do on monpoly routes. They will fill the seats. Every 90m-2hrs would be enough.

I would think that once international travel returns there would be an SQ interline/codeshare which would help fill some seats.


I don’t think ADL will be on their radar for jet service anytime soon. It may seem like a good way to connect their regional ops, but they will need all their planned fleet to be competitive on the SYD/MEL/BNE golden triangle routes.

Trying to spread out to ADL too early would just be a distraction, but I’m sure of things are successful, they can find ways to expand at some point in the future.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:17 pm

No ADL. It's golden triangle- that's it. Once you start adding bits and pieces (ADL, OOL) you screw up the triangle business plan/purpose.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:25 am

aschachter wrote:
qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj



Given Virgin are going to downsize its' fleet by reducing to a 737 fleet and removing the A320s (Virgin and Ex-Tiger), A330s and 777-300ers (Stored), I don't remember reading that Virgin were going to return excess 737s as well...

Slight correction, the VARA A320's are remaining in the fleet. And a number of 737's are going back to lessors. I recall reading early on in the piece that they were going to return about 70+, but that could be more now.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:33 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
aschachter wrote:
qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj



Given Virgin are going to downsize its' fleet by reducing to a 737 fleet and removing the A320s (Virgin and Ex-Tiger), A330s and 777-300ers (Stored), I don't remember reading that Virgin were going to return excess 737s as well...

Slight correction, the VARA A320's are remaining in the fleet. And a number of 737's are going back to lessors. I recall reading early on in the piece that they were going to return about 70+, but that could be more now.


Do you by chance mean keep 70? They only had 79 737s to start with!
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 12:41 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
aschachter wrote:
qf789 wrote:
REX is said to be working on a deal with lessors for 10 737's. The 737's are to come from Virgin which are now surplus to the Virgin.

Sources to the story say that REX cut a deal with lessors after Virgin told the lessors that the aircraft were no longer needed.

It is not yet known how much the deal is worth

https://www.afr.com/street-talk/take-of ... 812-p55kuj



Given Virgin are going to downsize its' fleet by reducing to a 737 fleet and removing the A320s (Virgin and Ex-Tiger), A330s and 777-300ers (Stored), I don't remember reading that Virgin were going to return excess 737s as well...

Slight correction, the VARA A320's are remaining in the fleet. And a number of 737's are going back to lessors. I recall reading early on in the piece that they were going to return about 70+, but that could be more now.

Considering they only have 79 737s I seriously doubt they're returning 70+ planes to lessor unless things go south for VA again.... :stirthepot:

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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:32 am

tullamarine wrote:
I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.


If REX primarily do what is true to their name and look to serve regional passengers then their schedule could be quite doable with 10. Any capital city traffic they pick up would be a bonus.

The other thing Im interested to understand is if they might expand regional routes to make bigger banks into the city. Eg perhaps a Bendigo-Sydney or Mildura-Sydney flight on Rex (QF already has one) which might connect to the same SYD-BNE flight that arrivals from ABX, GFF, NRA, WGA, OAG, PKE, DBO might also be using? Perhaps a Moree flight can be added to existing Armidale, Grafton, Lismore and Ballina/Byron flights. Though in some ways they probably would have already had these in place if they made sense to do so - own metal on carry service to the other capital wouldnt have been a big factor in profitablility of these flights.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:41 am

Has anyone got old REX timetables? By that i mean pre Covid? Of course theres nothing i can find on the website as there are no flights.... IM looking to see what sort of bank they have into SYD from the regional destinations
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:02 am

qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.


If REX primarily do what is true to their name and look to serve regional passengers then their schedule could be quite doable with 10. Any capital city traffic they pick up would be a bonus.

The other thing Im interested to understand is if they might expand regional routes to make bigger banks into the city. Eg perhaps a Bendigo-Sydney or Mildura-Sydney flight on Rex (QF already has one) which might connect to the same SYD-BNE flight that arrivals from ABX, GFF, NRA, WGA, OAG, PKE, DBO might also be using? Perhaps a Moree flight can be added to existing Armidale, Grafton, Lismore and Ballina/Byron flights. Though in some ways they probably would have already had these in place if they made sense to do so - own metal on carry service to the other capital wouldnt have been a big factor in profitablility of these flights.

Regional on-traffic just doesn't appear enough. Let's assume that 50% of pax are transitting onto mainline services elsewhere in Australia( seems a little high anyway); that means about 17 pax from each arriving plane will be going onto a jet service. From there, these people need to be heading to one of the other 2 REX jet destinations (ie an arrival into SYD is heading to MEL or BNE) so the 17 may already be down to 12 or so and splitting between the two destinations that is only 6 pax on an arriving service into SYD that will be transitting onto MEL. From there, there will be natural deductions, someone flying into SYD from WGA won't be connecting to MEL because they can already do that with a direct service, same for ABX.

In reality, REX just doesn't seem to have enough regional services to support an albeit limited mainline jet operation flying 180 seat 737s and will have to rely on point-to-point travelers. As has been pointed out, most corporates aren't going to be too interested because frequency is poor compared with QF and VA. This means they are trying to attract discount pax who would otherwise fly JQ or use restricted but very cheap QF/VA tickets. I guess they could try to attract some leisure travellers but the 3 cities they are targetting are business focussed with limited leisure.

I'm not saying they definitely don't have a market to target but I'm struggling to see how the numbers come together. Their cost base isn't going to be particularly low, certainly no lower than JQ and probably no lower than VA2, their route structure is small and they don't seem to possess a unique selling proposition. Absent a VA2 and they were the obvious candidates to steal the market just as DJ did when AN folded but it appears very likely that VA2 will be a thing so that opportunity probably doesn't exist.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:21 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
I seriously can't see REX being a serious alternative for business travellers with an OTP statistic that will make Tiger look good.


If REX primarily do what is true to their name and look to serve regional passengers then their schedule could be quite doable with 10. Any capital city traffic they pick up would be a bonus.

The other thing Im interested to understand is if they might expand regional routes to make bigger banks into the city. Eg perhaps a Bendigo-Sydney or Mildura-Sydney flight on Rex (QF already has one) which might connect to the same SYD-BNE flight that arrivals from ABX, GFF, NRA, WGA, OAG, PKE, DBO might also be using? Perhaps a Moree flight can be added to existing Armidale, Grafton, Lismore and Ballina/Byron flights. Though in some ways they probably would have already had these in place if they made sense to do so - own metal on carry service to the other capital wouldnt have been a big factor in profitablility of these flights.

Regional on-traffic just doesn't appear enough. Let's assume that 50% of pax are transitting onto mainline services elsewhere in Australia( seems a little high anyway); that means about 17 pax from each arriving plane will be going onto a jet service. From there, these people need to be heading to one of the other 2 REX jet destinations (ie an arrival into SYD is heading to MEL or BNE) so the 17 may already be down to 12 or so and splitting between the two destinations that is only 6 pax on an arriving service into SYD that will be transitting onto MEL. From there, there will be natural deductions, someone flying into SYD from WGA won't be connecting to MEL because they can already do that with a direct service, same for ABX.

In reality, REX just doesn't seem to have enough regional services to support an albeit limited mainline jet operation flying 180 seat 737s and will have to rely on point-to-point travelers. As has been pointed out, most corporates aren't going to be too interested because frequency is poor compared with QF and VA. This means they are trying to attract discount pax who would otherwise fly JQ or use restricted but very cheap QF/VA tickets. I guess they could try to attract some leisure travellers but the 3 cities they are targetting are business focussed with limited leisure.

I'm not saying they definitely don't have a market to target but I'm struggling to see how the numbers come together. Their cost base isn't going to be particularly low, certainly no lower than JQ and probably no lower than VA2, their route structure is small and they don't seem to possess a unique selling proposition. Absent a VA2 and they were the obvious candidates to steal the market just as DJ did when AN folded but it appears very likely that VA2 will be a thing so that opportunity probably doesn't exist.


I think you're wrong in saying there's no leisure market in Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane. Business traffic is plenty, but there's also thousands of people traveling the golden triangle for weekend trips, visiting family/friends etc.

With TT out of the picture, I think REX will have its place on SYD-MEL/BNE. Keep costs low by offering buy-on-board for anything but water/juice and a snack.
Once the border reopens to WA, a late night westbound with a redeye return from PER could also keep the jets flying through the night, and as mentioned a twice daily OOL/CNS to fill in the blanks.
Last edited by ben175 on Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:27 am

On Adelaide
They would be better off with Adelaide over Melbourne as the have many more feeder flights at Adelaide
Linking their hubs would be a smart way of guaranteeing a base load of passengers
ADL MEL SYD BNE all stops could be a way also to cover all if pax don't mind a stop or 2 to get from A to C or D
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:41 am

ben175 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

If REX primarily do what is true to their name and look to serve regional passengers then their schedule could be quite doable with 10. Any capital city traffic they pick up would be a bonus.

The other thing Im interested to understand is if they might expand regional routes to make bigger banks into the city. Eg perhaps a Bendigo-Sydney or Mildura-Sydney flight on Rex (QF already has one) which might connect to the same SYD-BNE flight that arrivals from ABX, GFF, NRA, WGA, OAG, PKE, DBO might also be using? Perhaps a Moree flight can be added to existing Armidale, Grafton, Lismore and Ballina/Byron flights. Though in some ways they probably would have already had these in place if they made sense to do so - own metal on carry service to the other capital wouldnt have been a big factor in profitablility of these flights.

Regional on-traffic just doesn't appear enough. Let's assume that 50% of pax are transitting onto mainline services elsewhere in Australia( seems a little high anyway); that means about 17 pax from each arriving plane will be going onto a jet service. From there, these people need to be heading to one of the other 2 REX jet destinations (ie an arrival into SYD is heading to MEL or BNE) so the 17 may already be down to 12 or so and splitting between the two destinations that is only 6 pax on an arriving service into SYD that will be transitting onto MEL. From there, there will be natural deductions, someone flying into SYD from WGA won't be connecting to MEL because they can already do that with a direct service, same for ABX.

In reality, REX just doesn't seem to have enough regional services to support an albeit limited mainline jet operation flying 180 seat 737s and will have to rely on point-to-point travelers. As has been pointed out, most corporates aren't going to be too interested because frequency is poor compared with QF and VA. This means they are trying to attract discount pax who would otherwise fly JQ or use restricted but very cheap QF/VA tickets. I guess they could try to attract some leisure travellers but the 3 cities they are targetting are business focussed with limited leisure.

I'm not saying they definitely don't have a market to target but I'm struggling to see how the numbers come together. Their cost base isn't going to be particularly low, certainly no lower than JQ and probably no lower than VA2, their route structure is small and they don't seem to possess a unique selling proposition. Absent a VA2 and they were the obvious candidates to steal the market just as DJ did when AN folded but it appears very likely that VA2 will be a thing so that opportunity probably doesn't exist.


I think you're wrong in saying there's no leisure market in Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane. Business traffic is plenty, but there's also thousands of people traveling the golden triangle for weekend trips, visiting family/friends etc.


Agreed. Visiting friends and family alone is a massive source of passengers on the Golden Triangle city pairs. These days families who 20 years ago might drive to see grandma in Queensland or the cousins in Melbourne once a year or so, fly back-and-forth semi-regularly (pre-Covid at least!)

This brings to mind the commercial Virgin Blue put out in 2009, where a bloke in Brisbane goes to visit his partner in Sydney, with a split screen showing him driving through the night in 1999 and hopping on Virgin Blue in 2009. It's easy to forget now, but it wasn't too long ago when the "average" Australian did not fly domestically anywhere near as much as now (or, again, at least pre-Covid)
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:59 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
ben175 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Regional on-traffic just doesn't appear enough. Let's assume that 50% of pax are transitting onto mainline services elsewhere in Australia( seems a little high anyway); that means about 17 pax from each arriving plane will be going onto a jet service. From there, these people need to be heading to one of the other 2 REX jet destinations (ie an arrival into SYD is heading to MEL or BNE) so the 17 may already be down to 12 or so and splitting between the two destinations that is only 6 pax on an arriving service into SYD that will be transitting onto MEL. From there, there will be natural deductions, someone flying into SYD from WGA won't be connecting to MEL because they can already do that with a direct service, same for ABX.

In reality, REX just doesn't seem to have enough regional services to support an albeit limited mainline jet operation flying 180 seat 737s and will have to rely on point-to-point travelers. As has been pointed out, most corporates aren't going to be too interested because frequency is poor compared with QF and VA. This means they are trying to attract discount pax who would otherwise fly JQ or use restricted but very cheap QF/VA tickets. I guess they could try to attract some leisure travellers but the 3 cities they are targetting are business focussed with limited leisure.

I'm not saying they definitely don't have a market to target but I'm struggling to see how the numbers come together. Their cost base isn't going to be particularly low, certainly no lower than JQ and probably no lower than VA2, their route structure is small and they don't seem to possess a unique selling proposition. Absent a VA2 and they were the obvious candidates to steal the market just as DJ did when AN folded but it appears very likely that VA2 will be a thing so that opportunity probably doesn't exist.


I think you're wrong in saying there's no leisure market in Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane. Business traffic is plenty, but there's also thousands of people traveling the golden triangle for weekend trips, visiting family/friends etc.


Agreed. Visiting friends and family alone is a massive source of passengers on the Golden Triangle city pairs. These days families who 20 years ago might drive to see grandma in Queensland or the cousins in Melbourne once a year or so, fly back-and-forth semi-regularly (pre-Covid at least!)

This brings to mind the commercial Virgin Blue put out in 2009, where a bloke in Brisbane goes to visit his partner in Sydney, with a split screen showing him driving through the night in 1999 and hopping on Virgin Blue in 2009. It's easy to forget now, but it wasn't too long ago when the "average" Australian did not fly domestically anywhere near as much as now (or, again, at least pre-Covid)

VFR does exist but it is low yield and it is not as if it is an unfilled area of demand currently. JQ do it night and day. QF and VA both sell to this market sector for off-peak services. There appears to be nothing particularly compelling about REX that means they would be able to take pax off the other airlines and still make money. REX's background for the past 20 years has been on routes where it is in a monopoly or subsidised situation. The cut and thrust of a strong QF/JQ and a revitalised VA could be brutal for them.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:11 am

tullamarine wrote:
Regional on-traffic just doesn't appear enough. Let's assume that 50% of pax are transitting onto mainline services elsewhere in Australia( seems a little high anyway); that means about 17 pax from each arriving plane will be going onto a jet service. From there, these people need to be heading to one of the other 2 REX jet destinations (ie an arrival into SYD is heading to MEL or BNE) so the 17 may already be down to 12 or so and splitting between the two destinations that is only 6 pax on an arriving service into SYD that will be transitting onto MEL. From there, there will be natural deductions, someone flying into SYD from WGA won't be connecting to MEL because they can already do that with a direct service, same for ABX.

They may also pick up more regional pax helping fill flights. But I don't think that is their primary business case for launching capital city services. They want the Point ot Point traffic and there should be enough demand for them to fill 10 aircraft.

tullamarine wrote:

I'm not saying they definitely don't have a market to target but I'm struggling to see how the numbers come together. Their cost base isn't going to be particularly low, certainly no lower than JQ and probably no lower than VA2, their route structure is small and they don't seem to possess a unique selling proposition. Absent a VA2 and they were the obvious candidates to steal the market just as DJ did when AN folded but it appears very likely that VA2 will be a thing so that opportunity probably doesn't exist.


I doubt JQ have a lower cost base. I mean JQ's CEO is on something like $4m a year... REX has a CEO on something like $220k and none of the board are earning much more than that if any. $220k at Jetstar wouldn't even pay for a department head.
 
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:27 am

qf2220 wrote:
Has anyone got old REX timetables? By that i mean pre Covid? Of course theres nothing i can find on the website as there are no flights.... IM looking to see what sort of bank they have into SYD from the regional destinations


Off the top of my head ZL out of my local port (OAG) pre COVID was 5/ weekday. 6:30, 9:10, 10:05, 14:10 & 17:25. They got a lot of PAX transferring onto VA flights. People at my work used them because our company has a deal with VA and ZL connects luggage through to VA. All our other company sites are mainly interstate so they are never just going to SYD.

I wonder if ZL will continue to interline with the new VA if they are now vying for their PAX?
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:10 am

qf2220 wrote:
Has anyone got old REX timetables? By that i mean pre Covid? Of course theres nothing i can find on the website as there are no flights.... IM looking to see what sort of bank they have into SYD from the regional destinations


They didn't have "banks" per se. Destinations with an overnight layover generally had a departure from SYD around 17:30-19:00 and arrival into SYD between 07:00-08:00, but other than that the schedules were fairly random. I presume it was a case of using whatever slots they could get, without creating complexity by heavily structuring their operation.
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Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:14 am

tullamarine wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
ben175 wrote:

I think you're wrong in saying there's no leisure market in Sydney, Melbourne & Brisbane. Business traffic is plenty, but there's also thousands of people traveling the golden triangle for weekend trips, visiting family/friends etc.


Agreed. Visiting friends and family alone is a massive source of passengers on the Golden Triangle city pairs. These days families who 20 years ago might drive to see grandma in Queensland or the cousins in Melbourne once a year or so, fly back-and-forth semi-regularly (pre-Covid at least!)

This brings to mind the commercial Virgin Blue put out in 2009, where a bloke in Brisbane goes to visit his partner in Sydney, with a split screen showing him driving through the night in 1999 and hopping on Virgin Blue in 2009. It's easy to forget now, but it wasn't too long ago when the "average" Australian did not fly domestically anywhere near as much as now (or, again, at least pre-Covid)

VFR does exist but it is low yield and it is not as if it is an unfilled area of demand currently. JQ do it night and day. QF and VA both sell to this market sector for off-peak services. There appears to be nothing particularly compelling about REX that means they would be able to take pax off the other airlines and still make money. REX's background for the past 20 years has been on routes where it is in a monopoly or subsidised situation. The cut and thrust of a strong QF/JQ and a revitalised VA could be brutal for them.


I agree with everything you said, so far as it pertains to Rex's chance of breaking through on capital city services. I really can't see any market for them.

What I was responding to was you said there was "limited leisure" on the routes. I disagree, in the pre-Covid world leisure demand between SYD-MEL-BNE was almost limitless ... if the price is low enough. If Tiger couldn't make it work then I agree that Rex really have a fight on their hands competing in that market.
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