Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 8
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:37 am

qf2220 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
Apart from fuel burn of the larger ATR72, it would also require an additional flight attendant for every flight whereas ATR42 supports a single F/A. REX's route structure is too marginal to support this sudden growth so an ATR72 is not really an option.


Fair point, but pre-COVID there were almost 4 times as many 72s as 42s in use. Although a couple of airlines had chosen the 42 to replace SAABs, Rex has been a lease em cheap and run em hard airline. New order 42s just don't seem to fit with its business model unless the price is really good.


No, the REX fleet strategy (which is what youre talking about, not business model*) has been SAAB340, SAAB340 or SAAB340. Their last few aquisitions have been of SAAB340Bs, or parts for them.

*Their business model is about regional connectivity, which drives fleet strategy but isnt the sole determinant.


Indeed, im surprised REX hasnt toyed with Saab 2000s over the years for the longer / denser routes
 
qf2048
Posts: 109
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2016 3:16 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:56 am

tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:
The issue is that there aren’t a lot of 42s around, so 72s are likely to have a similar lease cost. This may address the apparent “wasted capacity” of an upguqge.


Its not so much the capacity that isnt being used, but the underlying cost to run a 72 vs a 42 which will be the problem.

Apart from fuel burn of the larger ATR72, it would also require an additional flight attendant for every flight whereas ATR42 supports a single F/A. REX's route structure is too marginal to support this sudden growth so an ATR72 is not really an option.


Would the larger ATR 72 also trigger the need for airport security screening of passengers? I know Qlink Dash 300's don't need it but the Q400's do.
A lot of their ports don't have screening in place.
ZL,QF,KE,BA,AS,CX,FR,U2,W6,EI,IB,JL,AY,LH,AA,AC,FQ,DJ,JQ,LA,FJ,QS,NZ,NF,SB,PG,EK,AB,VA,MH,KA,VN
 
grjplanes
Posts: 207
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:35 am

For how long will the Fokkers still be around then for Alliance?

Was hoping to do a trip to Australia next year to get to hop on a few rare types that we don't see here in Southern Africa, which seemed possible there...but now this will probably not happen before 2022 anymore.

Was looking at Fokker100, Fokker70, Boeing 717, Saab340, Jetstream 31/32, Dash8-100, Dash8-200...which all seams possible on routes on the East Coast? Maybe even Fokker 50 of Alliance?
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8358
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:03 am

grjplanes wrote:
For how long will the Fokkers still be around then for Alliance?

Was hoping to do a trip to Australia next year to get to hop on a few rare types that we don't see here in Southern Africa, which seemed possible there...but now this will probably not happen before 2022 anymore.

Was looking at Fokker100, Fokker70, Boeing 717, Saab340, Jetstream 31/32, Dash8-100, Dash8-200...which all seams possible on routes on the East Coast? Maybe even Fokker 50 of Alliance?


I'm pretty sure the only F50 flight that is bookable by the public with Alliance is ADL-OLP.

The downside with the Qantas Dash 8 is that the 200/300 are used pretty interchangeablely (and also with the Q400) so there's no real guarantee of what will turn up on the day. LDH is guaranteed to be a 200, but the airfare will probably be more than JNB-SYD! SYD-ARM and SYD-MRZ are safe bets for 200/300 as those ports don't have security screening, which means the larger Q400 can't fly there, but what type turns up is a bit of pot-luck. MRZ is mostly 200, though.

The same interchangeability applies with the Alliance F70/100. Otherwise you can fly QantasLink F100s in WA, but these are still subject to swap occasionally with 717s.

To get a Dh-8-100 you would need to go to North Queensland and fly Skytrans out to one of the Cape York communities.

Overall though you should definitely be able to hit a good mix of the aircraft on your list relatively easily, although maybe not all of them if things don't go your way. Obviously the borders would need to reopen first though!
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
LTEN11
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2020 10:09 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:52 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
grjplanes wrote:
For how long will the Fokkers still be around then for Alliance?

Was hoping to do a trip to Australia next year to get to hop on a few rare types that we don't see here in Southern Africa, which seemed possible there...but now this will probably not happen before 2022 anymore.

Was looking at Fokker100, Fokker70, Boeing 717, Saab340, Jetstream 31/32, Dash8-100, Dash8-200...which all seams possible on routes on the East Coast? Maybe even Fokker 50 of Alliance?


I'm pretty sure the only F50 flight that is bookable by the public with Alliance is ADL-OLP.

The downside with the Qantas Dash 8 is that the 200/300 are used pretty interchangeablely (and also with the Q400) so there's no real guarantee of what will turn up on the day. LDH is guaranteed to be a 200, but the airfare will probably be more than JNB-SYD! SYD-ARM and SYD-MRZ are safe bets for 200/300 as those ports don't have security screening, which means the larger Q400 can't fly there, but what type turns up is a bit of pot-luck. MRZ is mostly 200, though.

The same interchangeability applies with the Alliance F70/100. Otherwise you can fly QantasLink F100s in WA, but these are still subject to swap occasionally with 717s.

To get a Dh-8-100 you would need to go to North Queensland and fly Skytrans out to one of the Cape York communities.

Overall though you should definitely be able to hit a good mix of the aircraft on your list relatively easily, although maybe not all of them if things don't go your way. Obviously the borders would need to reopen first though!


Also, be prepared for the credit card to take a substantial hit. A lot of those routes are monopolies and/or subsidised, so the fares will be expensive, never mind the fact that some of the places that you would need to fly to are remote, very remote, but you would see and experience some amazing places and local culture.
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:29 am

jrfspa320 wrote:
qf2220 wrote:
Kent350787 wrote:

Fair point, but pre-COVID there were almost 4 times as many 72s as 42s in use. Although a couple of airlines had chosen the 42 to replace SAABs, Rex has been a lease em cheap and run em hard airline. New order 42s just don't seem to fit with its business model unless the price is really good.


No, the REX fleet strategy (which is what youre talking about, not business model*) has been SAAB340, SAAB340 or SAAB340. Their last few aquisitions have been of SAAB340Bs, or parts for them.

*Their business model is about regional connectivity, which drives fleet strategy but isnt the sole determinant.


Indeed, im surprised REX hasnt toyed with Saab 2000s over the years for the longer / denser routes


Ive also thought this. I did some rough looking and thought that the 2000s could let them open up things like BNE-WGA/ABX etc. But the cost mustn't work for them. Are the 2000s available?
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:30 am

qf2048 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Its not so much the capacity that isnt being used, but the underlying cost to run a 72 vs a 42 which will be the problem.

Apart from fuel burn of the larger ATR72, it would also require an additional flight attendant for every flight whereas ATR42 supports a single F/A. REX's route structure is too marginal to support this sudden growth so an ATR72 is not really an option.


Would the larger ATR 72 also trigger the need for airport security screening of passengers? I know Qlink Dash 300's don't need it but the Q400's do.
A lot of their ports don't have screening in place.


For sure. And they dont like airport charges.

This has been on their retrosite for a few years now

https://www.rex.com.au/AboutRex/InTheCo ... round.aspx
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:36 am

VA will announce their new structure tomorrow. As reported in The Australian (paywall) it is likely a leaner domestic operation will be announced though still closer to a full-service operation rather than a Jetstar clone. Lounges will be retained as will the limited international operation though the latter won't happen until Covid is behind us which could be quite a while though the 777s aren't going anywhere except the desert anyway. The demise of Tiger will be confirmed. It is also expected on the structure of VARA be it within the organisation or without will be discussed.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
FL420FT
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 11:30 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:34 pm

Found this ad on SEEK ...

Looking for a chief pilot for 767 / 757 equipment for international routes based out of Brisbane

https://www.seek.com.au/job/50222882?ty ... 5b9fb17830

Rumour I heard was for the new Amazon fulfilment centre that's being built in the suburb of Murarrie in Brisbane.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:15 pm

VA to cut 3000 of the 9000 employees as they'll shrink to be a domestic-only carrier for the short term.

Carrier will be a hybrid with domestic business class (I'm guessing Economy will be unbundled similar to Air NZ 'seats to suit' / Godfrey-Era Virgin Blue).

https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... 0-revealed
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2838
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:18 pm

Virgin Australia gets rid of ATR, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and Tigerair Airbus A320 aircraft types, keeping 737s and regional/charter fleet

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... elf-iconic
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:21 pm

Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia gets rid of ATR, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and Tigerair Airbus A320 aircraft types, keeping 737s and regional/charter fleet

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... elf-iconic


Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.


The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).

Just a question for those in the know, how long can a AOC be kept while dormant?
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2838
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:23 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia gets rid of ATR, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and Tigerair Airbus A320 aircraft types, keeping 737s and regional/charter fleet

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... elf-iconic


Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.

The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).


Kind of confused on what you mean, are they temporarily storing the 777s until international demand recovers or are they completely getting rid of them?
 
eamondzhang
Posts: 1797
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:23 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:30 pm

Ishrion wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia gets rid of ATR, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and Tigerair Airbus A320 aircraft types, keeping 737s and regional/charter fleet

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... elf-iconic


Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.

The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).


Kind of confused on what you mean, are they temporarily storing the 777s until international demand recovers or are they completely getting rid of them?

That's their original word that they're ridding of 777 so I would assume when long haul recovers they might introduce a new (assuming more efficient) fleet type to cover the flying

Michael
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:30 pm

Ishrion wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia gets rid of ATR, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and Tigerair Airbus A320 aircraft types, keeping 737s and regional/charter fleet

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... elf-iconic


Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.

The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).


Kind of confused on what you mean, are they temporarily storing the 777s until international demand recovers or are they completely getting rid of them?


Per their financial report VA owns 4 of the 5 777s. The sole leased 777 (VH-VOZ) alongside the A330 fleet are likely assumed to be returning to lessors.

The second hand market for wide bodies is very much non-existent (just like the demand for long-haul flying) so options for getting rid of them is pretty much limited until demand for wide-bodies returns.

Very much the only option for Bain is to store the 4x VA 777s for the meantime until demand returns for buyers of 777s (widebodies in general) and/or demand for long-haul travel ex-Australia returns.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2838
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:42 pm

SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.

The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).


Kind of confused on what you mean, are they temporarily storing the 777s until international demand recovers or are they completely getting rid of them?


Per their financial report VA owns 4 of the 5 777s. The sole leased 777 (VH-VOZ) alongside the A330 fleet are likely assumed to be returning to lessors.

The second hand market for wide bodies is very much non-existent (just like the demand for long-haul flying) so options for getting rid of them is pretty much limited until demand for wide-bodies returns.

Very much the only option for Bain is to store the 4x VA 777s for the meantime until demand returns for buyers of 777s (widebodies in general) and/or demand for long-haul travel ex-Australia returns.


Except they don’t have to retain aircraft they fully own? It’s costly, but they can still get rid of them.

Pretty much all news sites (Bloomberg, ExecutiveTraveller, etc.) are reporting the 777s will be removed, not stored for an extended period of time.
 
cpd
Posts: 6414
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:46 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:53 pm

Can the 777s be scrapped and sold for spare parts? That appears the only option for them.
 
VHZNE
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:56 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:21 am

Just saw an email from Antartica Flights, and they will be using the 787.
 
User avatar
SCFlyer
Posts: 594
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:26 am

cpd wrote:
Can the 777s be scrapped and sold for spare parts? That appears the only option for them.


If I recall 2 of VA's 777s (can't remember their exact regos) also has the modified smaller cargo doors which would make them less attractive to leasing companies or other airlines.
Those would be ideal candidates for scrapping (for parts) as they are approaching 10 years of age.
 
VHOGU
Posts: 60
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:50 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:02 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.

The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).


Kind of confused on what you mean, are they temporarily storing the 777s until international demand recovers or are they completely getting rid of them?


Per their financial report VA owns 4 of the 5 777s. The sole leased 777 (VH-VOZ) alongside the A330 fleet are likely assumed to be returning to lessors.

The second hand market for wide bodies is very much non-existent (just like the demand for long-haul flying) so options for getting rid of them is pretty much limited until demand for wide-bodies returns.

Very much the only option for Bain is to store the 4x VA 777s for the meantime until demand returns for buyers of 777s (widebodies in general) and/or demand for long-haul travel ex-Australia returns.


The 777’s whilst they may not be leased doesn’t mean there’s not money owing on them. They are being returned to whoever holds security over them with no plans for them to return to the fleet.

Once an opportunity is identified for international long haul operations again, VA will be in discussions with Airbus and Boeing to work out which aircraft will likely meet their needs. More than likely 787 or A350.
 
Gemuser
Posts: 5083
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 12:07 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:30 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Just a question for those in the know, how long can a AOC be kept while dormant?

Effectively it cant! When they want to reactivate it they will have to go through, at least, part of the approval. An AOC is dependant' in part' in having "approved" personal in certain key roles, Chief Pilot, Chief Engineer, etc. I would assume that the longer it is suspended the more of the approval process will have to be gone through.
An AOC approval is not a "one time" thing. CASA is supposedly continually monitoring an airline for compliance with the AOC terms & conditions.

Gemuser
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:12 am

Gemuser wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Just a question for those in the know, how long can a AOC be kept while dormant?

Effectively it cant! When they want to reactivate it they will have to go through, at least, part of the approval. An AOC is dependant' in part' in having "approved" personal in certain key roles, Chief Pilot, Chief Engineer, etc. I would assume that the longer it is suspended the more of the approval process will have to be gone through.
An AOC approval is not a "one time" thing. CASA is supposedly continually monitoring an airline for compliance with the AOC terms & conditions.

Gemuser


Exactly this. Im involved with a company in a different transport sector that has an accreditation. It was dormant for 2 years and when business restarted, the regulator performed a number of compliance audits on our processes to ensure that we had considered that they were filled by the right people and that safety processes were being followed. There were a number of inspections both prior to and post return to operation.
 
a19901213
Posts: 179
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:38 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:03 am

I’m wondering what’s gonna happen with their slots in HND.

Surely once international flights are back and airlines start to resume back to flying to HND they’ll ask VA to return the slots?

QF will probably ask for those to be reallocated to them?
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8358
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:59 am

a19901213 wrote:
I’m wondering what’s gonna happen with their slots in HND.

Surely once international flights are back and airlines start to resume back to flying to HND they’ll ask VA to return the slots?

QF will probably ask for those to be reallocated to them?


I can easily see Qantas playing games with this slot. I cannot see them flying double daily to Tokyo for at least 2 years, probably Northern Winter 2022/23 at the earliest. If the market is still pretty moribund I could see them allowing the frequency to lie dormant until they have a need for it, but if ~2023 Virgin are starting to grow and look at expanding internationally I could easily see Qantas claiming it just to block VA, even if it has to be flown as a loss leader.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
vhebb
Posts: 343
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:37 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:12 am

QF will grab the HND slot and just operate BNE, SYD and MEL to HND.
 
Foopz
Posts: 12
Joined: Fri May 29, 2020 10:22 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:52 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).

The Ex-Tiger A320's have had consistent FIFO use in recent months alongside VH-FNP & YUD which date back to the Skywest acquisition.
Looks like they're going to have to use more mainline 738's or get Alliance to fulfill some of VARAs charter obligations.
Also wonder what it means for the XCH/CCK flights that the Australian Government pay them $2.5m a year to do.
 
ben175
Posts: 803
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:44 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:12 pm

Foopz wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).

The Ex-Tiger A320's have had consistent FIFO use in recent months alongside VH-FNP & YUD which date back to the Skywest acquisition.
Looks like they're going to have to use more mainline 738's or get Alliance to fulfill some of VARAs charter obligations.
Also wonder what it means for the XCH/CCK flights that the Australian Government pay them $2.5m a year to do.


Could a QFLink 712 do PER-XCH direct?
 
BAeRJ100
Posts: 441
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:49 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 1:23 pm

Foopz wrote:
Also wonder what it means for the XCH/CCK flights that the Australian Government pay them $2.5m a year to do.


Pretty simple, either VARA keeps flying it, or Virgin reneges on the contract and the government puts it back out to tender.
B737/738/739/744ER/752/753/763/77L/77W/788/789
A223/320/321/332/333/346/359/388
MD82/MD88/717/F100/RJ85/RJ100/146-100/200/300
E175/190/CRJ700/900
 
md83ftw
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 8:11 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:18 pm

Its good to hear some more upbeat news from Alliance Aviation today with the release of their financial results, from the announcement:

Key FY 2020 Highlights
• Profit before tax - $40.7 million, up $7.9 million or 24.1%;
• Profit after tax - $27.0 million, up $4.3 million or 18.9%;
• Total revenue from operations - $298.6 million, up 7.8%;
• Total flying hours for the year steady – 37,620 hours;
• A successful placement and share purchase plan raising $96 million for fleet
expansion;
• Operating cash flow - $44.0 million, up $7.0 million or 19.0%;
• Net cash position - $44.4 million with debt a low $54.4 million;
• Extension of banking facilities to January 2022; and
• Alliance retains a positive outlook for continued growth in the 2021 financial year.


https://www.allianceairlines.com.au/docs/default-source/default-document-library/alliance-aviation-(aqz)---results-release---fy20.pdf?sfvrsn=dfa91b9e_0

Interesting to note that three of the five F100 aircraft acquired from Helvetica have now been scrapped for parts, while two frames remain. Alliance also noted that they will be acquiring an additional F70 in 2021.
 
Obzerva
Posts: 486
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:48 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:33 pm

With VA looking to remove it's ATRs, and Alliance and Virgin already have worked together for a few years now, any thoughts on how close Virgin and Alliance could get in the next few years?
(QF's shareholding in Alliance not withstanding)
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:06 pm

Obzerva wrote:
With VA looking to remove it's ATRs, and Alliance and Virgin already have worked together for a few years now, any thoughts on how close Virgin and Alliance could get in the next few years?
(QF's shareholding in Alliance not withstanding)

It probably depends on what happens with VARA. One "out there" possibility is VA transferring VARA assets to Alliance in exchange for an equity position as well as an ongoing partnership. Of course, how this works is complicated by the QF shareholding in Alliance which will probably have to be unwound at some point given there appears little likelihood of QF being able to increase its shareholding in or influence over Alliance due to competition concerns.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
Boof
Posts: 175
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:45 pm

Ishrion wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:

Kind of confused on what you mean, are they temporarily storing the 777s until international demand recovers or are they completely getting rid of them?


Per their financial report VA owns 4 of the 5 777s. The sole leased 777 (VH-VOZ) alongside the A330 fleet are likely assumed to be returning to lessors.

The second hand market for wide bodies is very much non-existent (just like the demand for long-haul flying) so options for getting rid of them is pretty much limited until demand for wide-bodies returns.

Very much the only option for Bain is to store the 4x VA 777s for the meantime until demand returns for buyers of 777s (widebodies in general) and/or demand for long-haul travel ex-Australia returns.


Except they don’t have to retain aircraft they fully own? It’s costly, but they can still get rid of them.

Pretty much all news sites (Bloomberg, ExecutiveTraveller, etc.) are reporting the 777s will be removed, not stored for an extended period of time.



A quick look at the CASA register tells some of this story. All 4 “owned” 77W’s have registered finance parties attached to the certificate of registration. At some stage VA must have borrowed against them to raise cash. I assume that they are being disposed of back to the financiers as there is no chance of the debts being repaid. What the financing companies do with them is up to them.
Bring back Virgin Blue!
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:56 pm

a19901213 wrote:
I’m wondering what’s gonna happen with their slots in HND.

Surely once international flights are back and airlines start to resume back to flying to HND they’ll ask VA to return the slots?

QF will probably ask for those to be reallocated to them?

Once international flights are back then VA can fly to HND. Why would QF ask for the slot when it's VA's and they're going to fly there?
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:57 pm

Foopz wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).

The Ex-Tiger A320's have had consistent FIFO use in recent months alongside VH-FNP & YUD which date back to the Skywest acquisition.
Looks like they're going to have to use more mainline 738's or get Alliance to fulfill some of VARAs charter obligations.
Also wonder what it means for the XCH/CCK flights that the Australian Government pay them $2.5m a year to do.

The VARA A320's are staying in the fleet.
 
User avatar
RyanairGuru
Posts: 8358
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:59 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:20 am

BNEFlyer wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
I’m wondering what’s gonna happen with their slots in HND.

Surely once international flights are back and airlines start to resume back to flying to HND they’ll ask VA to return the slots?

QF will probably ask for those to be reallocated to them?

Once international flights are back then VA can fly to HND. Why would QF ask for the slot when it's VA's and they're going to fly there?


VA don't have an aircraft to fly there, and likely won't for several years. Also while Scurrah said LAX and HND yesterday, I feel that was just naming their existing routes rather than reflecting any real strategic objective. The Bain led Virgin will be very cautious to conserve capital, and only expand internationally in a way that maximises returns. When the time comes I'm pretty confident that LAX will come first, given that it was apparently profitable in the past and they could presumably re-enliven the DL JBA to add depth and breadth in the US market. Tokyo is an unknown quantity, and they will likely be more cautious in their approach there. Virgin cannot hold the slots forever without using, if Qantas (or any other Australian airline) is ready and willing to use them then IASC will reallocate them as using the slots is in the consumer interest.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 3:34 am

md83ftw wrote:

Interesting to note that three of the five F100 aircraft acquired from Helvetica have now been scrapped for parts, while two frames remain.



"and the two remaining aircraft are recorded as inventory" which suggests to my accountant brain that they might be also destined for parting out? Otherwise they'd be recorded as fixed assets?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:37 am

qf2220 wrote:
md83ftw wrote:

Interesting to note that three of the five F100 aircraft acquired from Helvetica have now been scrapped for parts, while two frames remain.



"and the two remaining aircraft are recorded as inventory" which suggests to my accountant brain that they might be also destined for parting out? Otherwise they'd be recorded as fixed assets?

Given the last aircraft was manufactured in 1997, it is expected that the supply of rotable parts would now be hard to get new and the best way is to part out retiring aircraft. As can be seen by Alliance's purchase of both older F100s and E190s, it can also be very smart financially provided the service records for the acquired planes mean the provenance of the parts can be established.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
a36001
Posts: 359
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 4:42 am

Qantas are sending 6 of their 787 fleet to VCV for storage, 3 will be stored at LAX the rest here in Oz.No word on the JQ birds?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 2531
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:02 am

a36001 wrote:
Qantas are sending 6 of their 787 fleet to VCV for storage, 3 will be stored at LAX the rest here in Oz.No word on the JQ birds?

I assume the JQ birds will be heading off shortly too. Hopefully the QF 789s return by about June next year, the JQ 788s may never come back.
717, 721/2, 732/3/4/5/7/8/9, 742/3/4, 752/3, 762/3, 772/E/W, 788/9, 300,310, 319,320/1, 332/3, 359, 388, DC9, DC10, F28, F100, 142,143, E75/90, CR2, D82/3/4, SF3, ATR
 
User avatar
CraigAnderson
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:28 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:06 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
I’m wondering what’s gonna happen with their slots in HND.
Surely once international flights are back and airlines start to resume back to flying to HND they’ll ask VA to return the slots?
QF will probably ask for those to be reallocated to them?

I can easily see Qantas playing games with this slot. I cannot see them flying double daily to Tokyo for at least 2 years, probably Northern Winter 2022/23 at the earliest. If the market is still pretty moribund I could see them allowing the frequency to lie dormant until they have a need for it, but if ~2023 Virgin are starting to grow and look at expanding internationally I could easily see Qantas claiming it just to block VA, even if it has to be flown as a loss leader.


Qantas is in a much better position than Virgin Australia to restart flights to Tokyo, but even without sufficient demand for double-daily from Sydney they could also try to reclaim Virgin's HND slot to convert BNE-NRT into BNE-HND. The first QF HND slot was assigned to MEL, and one of the two daily SYD flights is HND and there won't be demand for a second one for some time, so this would let Qantas pretty much abandon NRT and consolidate its Tokyo services at HND, which would have financial upside.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:18 am

qf2048 wrote:
tullamarine wrote:
qf2220 wrote:

Its not so much the capacity that isnt being used, but the underlying cost to run a 72 vs a 42 which will be the problem.

Apart from fuel burn of the larger ATR72, it would also require an additional flight attendant for every flight whereas ATR42 supports a single F/A. REX's route structure is too marginal to support this sudden growth so an ATR72 is not really an option.


Would the larger ATR 72 also trigger the need for airport security screening of passengers? I know Qlink Dash 300's don't need it but the Q400's do.
A lot of their ports don't have screening in place.


And Rex tend to chuck a tantrum whenever they have to use an airport with airport security - going as far as using the tin shed old ADL international terminal for arrivals for over a decade.
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
zkncj
Posts: 3869
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 4:57 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:21 am

ben175 wrote:
Foopz wrote:
SCFlyer wrote:

The Ex-Tiger A320's have had consistent FIFO use in recent months alongside VH-FNP & YUD which date back to the Skywest acquisition.
Looks like they're going to have to use more mainline 738's or get Alliance to fulfill some of VARAs charter obligations.
Also wonder what it means for the XCH/CCK flights that the Australian Government pay them $2.5m a year to do.


Could a QFLink 712 do PER-XCH direct?


Even if the QFlink 712 could make it distance wise, they wouldn’t have the required over water equipment. Let alone have an right certificates to operate these sectors.

QLink does have an growing fleet on a320’s that could operate this route if they won the tender.
 
brucetiki
Posts: 226
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:36 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:27 am

SCFlyer wrote:
Ishrion wrote:
Virgin Australia gets rid of ATR, Boeing 777, Airbus A330 and Tigerair Airbus A320 aircraft types, keeping 737s and regional/charter fleet

https://newsroom.virginaustralia.com/re ... elf-iconic


Also to add in the release in the above link.

- Long-haul international flying important part of plan but suspended until global travel market recovers
- Tigerair Australia brand discontinued with Air Operator Certificate (AOC) retained to provide option for ultra-low-cost operations when market recovers.
- Continued commitment to regional and charter flying.


The 'owned' 777s will be stored, whilst VARA will be kept for the meantime (F100 fleet).

Just a question for those in the know, how long can a AOC be kept while dormant?


It’ll be interesting to see if they can pull off the ULCC model down the track.

This was the path the original Tiger was going down, resulting in many bogans having a tantrum at the airport because they thought their $20 flight to to Gold Coast was all inclusive. Post-grounding they scaled back some of the ULCC elements (like allowing free check in at the airport).
The early bird catches the worm, the late bird will be featured on a You Tube video
 
NZ801
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Apr 20, 2020 9:06 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 5:54 am

I’ve been checking the Alliance BNE - PPP since it started and I see it fluctuates between F70 and F100. Is this simply a numbers issue? I’m assuming now JQ and VA are back on the route the numbers aren’t quite there as they were in late June when it started.
 
BNEFlyer
Posts: 254
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 6:41 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:05 am

RyanairGuru wrote:
BNEFlyer wrote:
a19901213 wrote:
I’m wondering what’s gonna happen with their slots in HND.

Surely once international flights are back and airlines start to resume back to flying to HND they’ll ask VA to return the slots?

QF will probably ask for those to be reallocated to them?

Once international flights are back then VA can fly to HND. Why would QF ask for the slot when it's VA's and they're going to fly there?


VA don't have an aircraft to fly there, and likely won't for several years. Also while Scurrah said LAX and HND yesterday, I feel that was just naming their existing routes rather than reflecting any real strategic objective. The Bain led Virgin will be very cautious to conserve capital, and only expand internationally in a way that maximises returns. When the time comes I'm pretty confident that LAX will come first, given that it was apparently profitable in the past and they could presumably re-enliven the DL JBA to add depth and breadth in the US market. Tokyo is an unknown quantity, and they will likely be more cautious in their approach there. Virgin cannot hold the slots forever without using, if Qantas (or any other Australian airline) is ready and willing to use them then IASC will reallocate them as using the slots is in the consumer interest.

VA won't have the aircraft once the widebodies go, but they've said they're looking at the 787, which won't take several years to acquire, especially from a leasing company or other airline. LAX may come first, but as you've said, VA can't hold the slots forever, so it would be in their best interest to retain it and fly then when international travel resumes.
 
User avatar
EK413
Posts: 5540
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:09 am

Last I checked JQ have 11 x B788’s, 3 of which they were keen to offload pre-COVID19.

I’m sure in the current environment QF wouldn’t mind offloading these birds to VA when the time comes.

Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
jrfspa320
Posts: 582
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:18 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 7:47 am

EK413 wrote:
Last I checked JQ have 11 x B788’s, 3 of which they were keen to offload pre-COVID19.

I’m sure in the current environment QF wouldn’t mind offloading these birds to VA when the time comes.

Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


788s are not very attractive, poorer economics compared to the 789, and less range - which i think the 788 would struggle on LAX-MEL
 
User avatar
qf2220
Posts: 1972
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:15 am

What is the military jet (some sort of 4 engined plane) doing over Sydney Harbour at the moment? Loops of some sort....
 
kriskim
Posts: 413
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:44 am

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:46 am

EK413 wrote:
Last I checked JQ have 11 x B788’s, 3 of which they were keen to offload pre-COVID19.

I’m sure in the current environment QF wouldn’t mind offloading these birds to VA when the time comes.

Just a thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would have thought that QF could of used the 788 to replace A330 flying into Asia.
A world built upon connectivity.
 
User avatar
vhqpa
Posts: 1703
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:21 pm

Re: Australian Aviation Thread - August 2020

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:50 am

NZ801 wrote:
I’ve been checking the Alliance BNE - PPP since it started and I see it fluctuates between F70 and F100. Is this simply a numbers issue? I’m assuming now JQ and VA are back on the route the numbers aren’t quite there as they were in late June when it started.


I assume so. I flew them up to PPP today, equipment was listed as Fokker 100 on the website, but ended up being a F70. I overheard a flight attendant telling another pax that loads have been dropping off in the last few weeks. I suppose that makes sense with end of school holidays in Queensland. I counted about 26/27 pax on the flight up. I fully expect the return flight next week to be downgauged to a Fokker 70 also.
"There you go ladies and gentleman we're through Mach 1 the speed of sound no bumps no bangs... CONCORDE"
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 8

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos