Hello there Turkish Aviation fans,
Welcome to our August 2020 edition,



One step forward, two steps back
Things are moving very slowly in the aviation world. Still, tons of uncertainty with the spread of the virus and economic turmoil throughout the world.

-Negotiations going on with TK and the unions and understandably; talks of sacrifice.
-We should see an increase in number of flights from TK starting August 1st, fingers crossed.
-I predicted on January 2020 that TK will not be ordering any Long Haul planes till 2022-2023, I guess I might have to expand that time frame a bit more.
-With 747/380 production coming to an end, 777X EIS moving to 2021, 787 Production consolidation, I have a sad feeling that things are going to get better very slowly. I hope A350s join the TK fleet soon.

Lastly, I wish everyone a Happy Bayram, “Eid al-Adha”, enjoy your time off and be safe.

*You can find last month's thread here: Turkish Aviation July 2020

Well, something rather queer and needs a logical explanation: A close (and a seasoned aviation enthusiast) young friend of mine had been travelling IAD-DOH-IST (due to a cheapo fare) yesterday and today (31st friday). He reported while on the way: things seemed to have run pretty smooth while checking & embarking at IAD and when disembarked at DOH. Before catching the DOH-IST flight he wanted to make some shopping of liqueur & fragrances at DOH at Qatar DF. He was denied on the grounds that he is ending his travel at IST. He could only purchase a few items (non DF ones) at the WHSmith store, and that was all!... At his arrival at IST, the Duty Free Store at International Arrivals was in full service and he concluded some of his shopping albeit a higher rate than DOH! ????? Seems to be an uncommon practice for all IST destined and ending pax. Does this ring any bells?

IIRC, you are only supposed to buy Duty Free items when leaving a country, not transferring. In the USA, they even ask, is Turkey your final destination?
That could be the reason. If he started his travel in Doha, there would be no issues.
Arriving at IST and buying Duty Free items is a different issue.

TK787 wrote:

IIRC, you are only supposed to buy Duty Free items when leaving a country, not transferring. In the USA, they even ask, is Turkey your final destination?
That could be the reason. If he started his travel in Doha, there would be no issues.
Arriving at IST and buying Duty Free items is a different issue.

Nope, I cannot fully agree with that. I have travelled many many times (at least around20 separate occasions in the last 18-20 years) from SIN or HKG to IST via DOH or BAH and/or DXB (with respective airlines QR & EK). In all cases I did some minor DF shopping at the origin and more DF shopping at the transfer country (plus even more at IST Arrivals). I actually did the very same on the reverse route (i.e. from IST to SIN or HKG via DOH/BAH/DXB). In all of these cases I had obtained all my boarding passes at the respective origins. This includes several cases (for DOH & BAH) where I actually left the airport for a nights stay and came back the next day for my DOH/BAH-IST flight.

Even there may be such a rule that you have described above, that rule is not valid in that part of the world.

In no case at HKG/SIN I was asked to confirm my final destination (as it was pretty much obvious, anyway, bcz. I had all my bags checked as far as IST...)!

On the reverse route, when originating at IST, I was often asked to check-in my extra hand luggage when flying in economy (a normally allowed cabin sized and weighted one plus a second "suits hanger") but I always managed to override that on the claim that "do you guarantee to deliver all my checked in luggage at the destination? I have a days clothing and personal needs, etc. inside this hanger, in case you don't!" I didn't mostly need that argument when coming back to IST, as I would mostly be traveling on business class.

Only in one case I was denied at DXB, when I attempted to purchase booze over the allowed limits at Turkey. (So was forced to purchase within limits... but no one actually noticed that extra bottle in my hand baggage purchased" at the origin!!!)

When I was in IAH I saw quite a bit of TK activity. On Tuesday I saw the 77W take off over my mom's house around 1130 and about an hour later the 77F took off. The next day I saw a 789 coming in around 1840 (the normal time). Any reason for the sporadic schedule?

Do we know why TK gave this IST-ORD flight; TK115 flight number, instead of TK5? Thanks.
https://www.flightradar24.com/THY115/251811d1

Any internal words on when we can expect catering improvements on long haul flights? I am visiting some family in Turkey and even them as non-aviation enthusiasts / non-travels are asking me things like "How was your trip? Apparently TK's service became ...".
I have to say, I looked into transiting in the gulf on my way back to the US but it just didn't make sense (and can't use an EU airline as transiting in Europe is forbidden in the travel ban).

On the other hand, I have been somewhat tracking J seat maps on flights to LAX and SFO and loads are looking quite good! On the day of my flight (in ~2weeks), the LAX flight is almost full (middle J seat blocked though) and SFO flight is at ~70% (no seats blocked on 787 in J AFAIK).

mict wrote:

On the day of my flight (in ~2weeks), the LAX flight is almost full (middle J seat blocked though) and SFO flight is at ~70% (no seats blocked on 787 in J AFAIK).

Please let us know how it all turns out. Bon Voyage.

TK787 wrote:

IIRC, you are only supposed to buy Duty Free items when leaving a country, not transferring. In the USA, they even ask, is Turkey your final destination?
That could be the reason. If he started his travel in Doha, there would be no issues.
Arriving at IST and buying Duty Free items is a different issue.

Hello...I dont agree as whenever I fly via DXB, I always buy stuff from the DXB Duty Free and there is no issue at all. The only problem at DXB is that if you are flying for example JFK-DXB-BKK, you cannot buy alcohol or any liquid item at JFK which needs to pass through transit security at DXB. You need to purchase the liquid product at either DXB or BKK being the final destination. The same rule applies for most airports I have transited at in EU and GCC too.

In addition, if you bought a bottle of alcohol on board a EK flight which first stops in DXB en-route to your final destination, it will be confiscated at DXB airport when you are passing through the transit security area.

I have also many times flown from JFK/YYZ via LHR/CDG to DSS/LOS/KHI/KWI and never had an issue buying stuff from the airport duty free outlets in EU/UK.

"behramjee", thank you for all that good info.

TK7 is flying IST-IAD with 77W today, also there is a TK 330-300 flying IST-IAD TK 4900, Cargo.

With Egypt and Turkey being the only tourist destinations where Serbs can enter freely (no PCR or quarantine), Air Serbia is ramping up its charter flights. There will be five flights out of BEG to AYT tomorrow.

Departures from BEG at: 07.00 and then four flights ALL departing at 12.00. Would be fantastic if there are spotters at AYT who could take a pic of four JU planes there at the same time, two B733 and two A319.

In other news, JU and TK have finalized a codeshare agreement. Besides flights between BEG and IST, TK will put its code on JU's flights to BNX and TIV while JU will put their codes on TK flights to Ankara, Kayseri, Izmir, Konya, Adana, Trabzon, Antalya, Gazipasa, Dalaman, Bodrum and Gaziantep.

https://www.exyuaviation.com/2020/08/ai ... s-ink.html

How are the financial numbers for TK, PC XQ, are they making any profit at all?

Mystic wrote:

How are the financial numbers for TK, PC XQ, are they making any profit at all?

You must be kiddin'!!! Nobody can ver make the slightest profit in these pandemic days (for months), despite some severe economy measures are being taken esp. for in-flight amenities and catering!... It's basically a "showing the flag" operation for those who are flying!

TK787 wrote:

Hello there Turkish Aviation fans,
Welcome to our August 2020 edition,

I hope A350s join the TK fleet soon.

Thanks for a new thread . Im looking forward to seeing the A350’s too. Maybe even flying on one

Mystic wrote:

How are the financial numbers for TK, PC XQ, are they making any profit at all?

It is still incredible that TK has 122 jets in the air at the moment.
And since it is a flag carrier, no one cares what the yields are. I am not so sure about the private carriers.
For some comparison, at the moment LH has 39 and UA has 176 jets in the air, just now.

TK787 wrote:

Mystic wrote:

How are the financial numbers for TK, PC XQ, are they making any profit at all?

It is still incredible that TK has 122 jets in the air at the moment.
And since it is a flag carrier, no one cares what the yields are. I am not so sure about the private carriers.
For some comparison, at the moment LH has 39 and UA has 176 jets in the air, just now.

Interesting, do you know how many of those 122 were domestic flights? I am sure that's where TK has an advantage over LH since Germany has a highly developed domestic rail system.

Blerg wrote:

Interesting, do you know how many of those 122 were domestic flights? I am sure that's where TK has an advantage over LH since Germany has a highly developed domestic rail system.

Not at that time yesterday, but just now, Saturday 11:05 UTC , TK has 104 jets in the air and 22 are Domestic flights.

TK787 wrote:

Blerg wrote:

Interesting, do you know how many of those 122 were domestic flights? I am sure that's where TK has an advantage over LH since Germany has a highly developed domestic rail system.

Not at that time yesterday, but just now, Saturday 11:05 UTC , TK has 104 jets in the air and 22 are Domestic flights.

22 out of 104 is quite a good number. I assume domestic flights are performing well since there are still travel restrictions so many Turks are spending their holidays in Turkey.

According to this source, Turkey seems to have banned flights from Kazakhstan, Iran and Afghanistan. Air Astana's flight with 101 passengers was denied landing permission in Istanbul as it was taxying to the runway. Seems like this decision came out of the blue as diplomats on both sides knew nothing about it.

https://www.zakon.kz/5035062-turtsiya-p ... henie.html

Both Turkish Airlines and Pegasus have cancelled flights to Kazakhstan.

Blerg wrote:

I assume domestic flights are performing well since there are still travel restrictions so many Turks are spending their holidays in Turkey.

From what I know from my immediate family and friends, no one is taking Domestic flights. Everyone is driving. And most people that work from home relocated to their summer houses in the South already, like Bodrum, Marmaris, Antalya, Alacati.
So, I have no idea who is flying, what the loads are but no one that I know, flew Domestically for the recent religious holiday.

I'm going on 2 domestic flights soon and ask my cabin crew cousin what the loads are like. According to airport news sabiha gökçen is very busy.

Here are the numbers from the Ministry of Transportation for total airline pax during the last holiday, I imagine the period is somewhere between July30-Aug4 or so since that is the official holiday period:
814,477 Domestic pax on 8,121 flights (100 pax average per flight) (1,160 flights a day for 7 days ???)
387,697 International pax on 4,027 flights. (97 pax average per flight)
If those are correct, like I mentioned earlier, yields can't be that good.

TK787 wrote:

Here are the numbers from the Ministry of Transportation for total airline pax during the last holiday, I imagine the period is somewhere between July30-Aug4 or so since that is the official holiday period:
814,477 Domestic pax on 8,121 flights (100 pax average per flight) (1,160 flights a day for 7 days ???)
387,697 International pax on 4,027 flights. (97 pax average per flight)
If those are correct, like I mentioned earlier, yields can't be that good.

Is there still a limitation on the Economy fare sold on domestic routes? Yields must be suffering indeed...

A330Inter wrote:

Is there still a limitation on the Economy fare sold on domestic routes? Yields must be suffering indeed...

Maybe a member in Turkey can answer better.
From what I know, the limits are holding for the most part, but the recent devaluation of the Turkish Lira did not help.
Last month 6.85TL = 1 USD, today 7.30TL = 1 USD.

News about tourists to Antalya today:
Today, Antalya will receive around 35,000 tourists from 12 countries, including... Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, France, Austria, Denmark, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Serbia. (23,000 of them are from Russia)

TK787 wrote:

News about tourists to Antalya today:
Today, Antalya will receive around 35,000 tourists from 12 countries, including... Germany, Sweden, Switzerland, France, Austria, Denmark, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Serbia. (23,000 of them are from Russia)

Majority low yield tourism but I guess better then nothing.

Does anyone know which row has the best location aboard A321SL (20/158) and A321neo? I’m faced with a choice of rows 23, 24 and 26 on a flight currently scheduled to be operated by an 321SL but according to the last data it is being changed to neo every day. As I remember, the row 24 aboard A321SL has very good window location but according to Expertflyer it is almost missing a window on A321neo. So, which row is better to be chosen in that area to have good window location on both types - by that I mean having a window right next to you and not sitting between two windows and leaning either forward or backwards.

Interesting news about Air Macau landing into AYT (with Mafaky’s comment under it).

https://tolgaozbek.com/haberler/air-mac ... cu-tasidi/

I think TK should fly both to LAS and MFM as gamblers are everywhere and these are their paradise. MFM is also a back door to China.

Eurocontrol published visualization of how airlines are reactivating their fleets.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfI05cGXYAE ... name=large

And traffic volume



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfH8iqeXYAA ... name=large

Hi all, flying into DLM this weekend,
If Anybody Can give me an inkling as what to expect, I’d be very greatful.

TK105 wrote:

Interesting news about Air Macau landing into AYT (with Mafaky’s comment under it).

https://tolgaozbek.com/haberler/air-mac ... cu-tasidi/

I think TK should fly both to LAS and MFM as gamblers are everywhere and these are their paradise. MFM is also a back door to China.

A very interesting "charter" flight. En route, the 319 had to make technical landings at BKK & DXB (for re-fuelling plus maybe re-supply of catering). Reminds me of the days when PanAm conducted their prestigious "round the world flights"!

TUGMASTER wrote:

Hi all, flying into DLM this weekend,
If Anybody Can give me an inkling as what to expect, I’d be very greatful.

Bon Voyage
DLM is my 3rd home airport, next to JFK and IST.
Not sure what kind of info you are looking for, but here it goes:
-Approach is awesome, either from the land side or the water side. If coming from the land, you get really close to some mountain tops and it might get choppy, from the water side nicer views if you are on the Right side of the plane.
-Very big, modern airport, high ceilings, it might feel quiet and empty depending on the time of the arrival, use the Bathrooms before leaving the terminal.
-Long walks toward the Exit, there is Duty Free shops right after you pick up your luggage if flying from an International Destination. Turkish rules allow you to bring in 1 bottle of high alcohol like whisky/vodka and two bottles of low, like wine. Buy it at those Duty Free shops, really good deals, since booze is generally very expensive once you leave the airport. Also exchange some money or better yet get some Turkish Lira from an ATM.
-There are many car rental offices just before you leave the terminal building. Reserve a car before you arrive, it can be very busy.
-Once out of the terminal you walk outdoors, could be very warm this time of the year. There will be many people trying to offer you transfers, car services.
-Eventually about 50-75 meters outside the terminal there is a cafe, other Bus/Car service offices, tour agents, cabs, big signs about cab fares to different destinations.
-There are also public busses to Marmaris and Fethiye, "MUTTAS" or "HAVAS", they are almost identical price and service and departure times. IIRC, 80 minutes to Marmaris Bus Depot from DLM. Cash only and one way fare to Marmaris should be around $4.00. Lot cheaper than a taxi.

TK787.... thank you

As expected the latest numbers from TK are not good;
-Jan-July pax number YOY down from 42.2M to 16.6M
-July pax number compared to last year down from 7.1M to 2M
-Though, Jan-July Cargo only down 2.3% compared to same period last year.
Hopefully, it all gets better from now on.

With the normalization of relations between the UAE and Israel, I wonder what impact it will have on TK operations there. They do carry a lot of traffic to Asia via IST. Maybe now it's time to start handing out Miles and Smiles cards to all Israeli passengers in order to keep the clientele

TC-LSD, a TK A321neo, is finally back in service after being off service for many months due to engine issues. TC-LSC and TC-LSE are still not in service (they have the same issue that TC-LSD had). TC-LSP has been off service for months too but I'm not sure if that's due to engine issues or something else.

TK787 wrote:

As expected the latest numbers from TK are not good;
-Jan-July pax number YOY down from 42.2M to 16.6M
-July pax number compared to last year down from 7.1M to 2M
-Though, Jan-July Cargo only down 2.3% compared to same period last year.
Hopefully, it all gets better from now on.

To be honest, I expected much worse for TK, or is it just me?

Finally ....
I ordered mine on January 2nd, 2020. Due to the virus situation I finally got it today.
So happy with my Herpa 1:500 scale TK 787-9 "Maçka"
https://www.airplaneshop.com/catalog/pr ... gLQzfD_BwE (pictures here)

A short story about the amazing 90% increase in cargo revenue at TK during the pandemic and how cargo has become a large part of its business.

Cargo Buoys Turkish Airlines
https://airlineweekly.com/cargo-buoys-turkish-airlines/

Cargo maybe the way forward for the time being for TK. With 1256 new COVID cases in Turkey today things are not great. Then as mentioned above geo political changes in Israel which is a key market for TK it could be tougher times ahead.

I will not be worried about TK at all. We have been having these threads close to 15 years and I've seen so many doom and gloom predictions about TK over the years. I am making a note about this situation and will revisit this; next year today
I am terrible with predictions? Anyone else with predictions about TK in August 2021??

According to Routes Online TK moves Newark / Vancouver addition to Oct 2020

Istanbul – Newark eff 02OCT20 1 daily A330-300
Istanbul – Vancouver eff 04OCT20 3 weekly 787-9

Here is the link https://www.routesonline.com/news/38/ai ... 20airlines

Selamlar

TK787 wrote:

I will not be worried about TK at all. We have been having these threads close to 15 years and I've seen so many doom and gloom predictions about TK over the years. I am making a note about this situation and will revisit this; next year today
I am terrible with predictions? Anyone else with predictions about TK in August 2021??

That wouldn't really be a comparison for apples vs. apples!

So let's due it this way. Let's wait for the overall results for the end of 3rd quarter of 2020, and for next year's results of end 3Q/2021. And then lets compare all the results (including cargo...) for end 3Q/2019 vs. end 3Q/2020 vs. end 3Q/2021.

That will give us a much clearer picture and for a better (though not complete) visibility for future years of healing and recovery.

Personally I do not expect most figures to go back to the 2019 ones before 2022 or for the worse before 2023. This includes all aspects and factors on the balance sheet: number of pax (and territorial distribution), load factors, cargo (freight), all revenues and expenses, etc.

A good example is the recent announcement of cargo operations at TK. The tonnage of freight actually decreased a bit, compared to the previous year (and despite the fact around 30 wide bodies started carrying boxed/packed cargo in their passenger cabins adding to the belly cargo capacity and in the absence of pax baggage) but revenues skyrocketed. For how long will this trend continue, at todays' rather high freight rates? That will be one critical breaking point... A further critical factor will surely be fuel prices: will they stay low (reasonably low) as of today's prices or in what direction will there be changes?

TK773ER wrote:

According to Routes Online TK moves Newark / Vancouver addition to Oct 2020

TK just announced its September schedule and looking at TK website this morning:
-Newark to start 3 x W in August and go to 4 x W in September
-YVR to start Sept2nd with 3 x W.
But knowing TK and its website issues, OCTOBER start seems more likely.

-The rest of the N. America schedule stays at today's levels.
-In September 1st, TK is planning to restart, Iran flights to Tehran, Shiraz, Tabriz and Mashhad. Also starting, Madagaskar, Riga, Tallinn, Batum, Tbilisi, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Dammam, Riyadh, Constantine, Oran, Mazari Sharif, Krasnodar, Sochi, Kazan, Sulaymaniyah, Mumbai, Delhi, Bahrain, Amman, Ashgabat , Vilnius, Ulaanbaator, Thessaloniki, Marrakech, Muscat, Abuja, Lagos, Cape Town, Johannesburg, Durban and Abu Dhabi.

2 weeks is a long time these days, there might be last minute changes.

Is TK still planning to return to BOS in september?

georgiabill wrote:

Is TK still planning to return to BOS in september?

AFAIK, TK has been flying nonstop to BOS for sometime now, 3 x W with A330-300.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY81

Ty for the info TK787. Any chance the 787 will eventually do the BOS route?