Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Then why I am subsidizing people's desire to go fly to states to go play free and loose and potentially spread the virus? So they can have middle seats open?
Can't have it both ways.
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:Then why I am subsidizing people's desire to go fly to states to go play free and loose and potentially spread the virus? So they can have middle seats open?
Can't have it both ways.
While I know that is not why everyone is traveling, why would the government pay for social distancing on an airplane yet we have people going out and being free and loose in their day to day activities, going to bars, having large house parties / BBQs with completely random unrelated people in attendance, and doing all sorts of other things.
DL747400 wrote:Just saw this:
American Airlines Pilots Want Load-Factor Caps Subsidized
https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/ ... subsidized
This statement sums up the APA proposal:
"In practice, this would require the government to purchase all middle seats for mainline single-aisle jets configured in the common 3-3 layout, and all aisle seats on regional jets configured in a 2-2 layout. Load factors would be capped at around 65% for the former and 50-65% for the latter."
While I do very much like the DL and WN seating caps and am actively avoiding the other carriers who are selling their flights to 100% full, where exactly does APA think all this $$$ will come from? It sounds to me as if APA wants the $$$ to come directly from the US taxpayer instead of from each carrier's existing government-subsidized liquidity. But isn't this just a shell game? If you follow the $$$, it all comes from the US taxpayer in way or another.
The caps make a great deal of sense at a time when so few are traveling and I believe that given a choice people would want the adjacent seat to remain unoccupied throughout the pandemic, but the $$$ has to come from somewhere.
joeblow10 wrote:I think it’s good posturing by the union. As others have said... leaving middle seats open doesn’t mean you’re 6 feet apart from others. If the govt really feels strongly that airlines should be regulated to avoid selling the middle seat, then pony up. Otherwise, they’ve got a business to run. If they see it beneficial to keep them open like DL/WN, so be it, that’s their business decision
enilria wrote:Does this affect connecting passengers I wonder?
Vicenza wrote:joeblow10 wrote:I think it’s good posturing by the union. As others have said... leaving middle seats open doesn’t mean you’re 6 feet apart from others. If the govt really feels strongly that airlines should be regulated to avoid selling the middle seat, then pony up. Otherwise, they’ve got a business to run. If they see it beneficial to keep them open like DL/WN, so be it, that’s their business decision
Likewise, if they see it as beneficial to load at 100%, then that is their business decision.....they got one hell of a grant/subsidy so let them use it. Yes, an airline has a business to run, but so has every other company and without the massive handout. May I also put forward, an airline pilot is an employee the same as any other type of employee of any company. They do not, nor should they be, demanding anything regarding revenue/finances.
joeblow10 wrote:Vicenza wrote:joeblow10 wrote:I think it’s good posturing by the union. As others have said... leaving middle seats open doesn’t mean you’re 6 feet apart from others. If the govt really feels strongly that airlines should be regulated to avoid selling the middle seat, then pony up. Otherwise, they’ve got a business to run. If they see it beneficial to keep them open like DL/WN, so be it, that’s their business decision
Likewise, if they see it as beneficial to load at 100%, then that is their business decision.....they got one hell of a grant/subsidy so let them use it. Yes, an airline has a business to run, but so has every other company and without the massive handout. May I also put forward, an airline pilot is an employee the same as any other type of employee of any company. They do not, nor should they be, demanding anything regarding revenue/finances.
It sounds like Merkley (D-OR) is going to try and pass some Bill forbidding sale of middle seats - after he posted a tirade against AA for selling middle seats on his flight last week. We’ll see how many senators go for that... between A4A lobbying and the fact that it’s currently controlled by the R’s, I can’t imagine it will get very far.
My response to Merkley and your comments is very simple: it’s a free market. You want to pay 2-3x as much to fly DL and guarantee a middle seat? Great... Pay it. Likewise, if you don’t care, then fly AA or UA for much cheaper. But the idea that the govt should step in and prohibit middle seat sale without some sort of financial trade off is ludicrous. Now - I do agree that carriers like AA and UA need to be a lot less sneaky on proclaiming their “advance blocking of seat selection” equates to guaranteed open middle seats... that could certainly use some regulation.
tphuang wrote:When news like this come out, it seems like just a matter of time before the rest of south Florida shuts down.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/res ... e/2258327/
Given Tampa and Orlando area are also seeing a lot of infections, it seems like there will be more shutdowns locally even if Ron DeSantis sticks to the no shutodwn line.
airlineaddict wrote:While we were expecting a smaller United, 36,000 potential furloughs come October 1 is huge.
Flight Attendants - 15,100
Airport Ops - 11,082
Maintenance - 5,457
Pilots - 2,250
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/08/coronav ... emand.html
An225 wrote:Hello all,
One of the requirements for fighting COVID-19 spread is the mandatory wearing of face masks and practicing social distancing. We know that all (or at least most) airlines require passenger to wear face masks for the duration of the flight while they are inside the aircraft. However, the case of social distancing in the cabin is not clear. At the beginning of the pandemic several airlines promised that they will leave the middle seat vacant (e.g., AC), but we see more and more evidence that these promises are not kept and certain flights are leaving full to capacity or at least with load factors that require at least some of the middle seats to be occupied.
I understand that economics wise having the middle seat vacant results in loss and airlines can not operate this way, but I wonder are there any airlines that do have such social distancing policy?
Thanks,
An225
santi319 wrote:Just a reminder that the middle seat is 22 inches and you still have people front and back.
Social distance in a commercial airplane is an oxymoron in my opinion..
Waterbomber2 wrote:Your chances of getting infected on a packed flight are close to 100% when departing out of a place with confirmed infections of 1% of population like most of the USA.
1% of population confirmed = 10% of population infected = someone in your half row or the half rows in front or behind you is infected.
If you are lucky, you won't be infected but exposure is a certainty.
Airlines are in this crisis what banks were during the 2008 financial crisis.
Everyone has to fend for themselves.
I personally wore a hazmat facial protection on my flight the other day.
I discussed how the industry is being negligent in the below thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1447661
According to the clowns who regulate our aviation industries, ie FAA and EASA, there is no problem filling aircraft to capacity as long as everyone wears their seat belt when the sign is on.
The health and safety of the crew and passenger is secundary to corporate profits (or limiting their losses) . Billions spent on textbooks, SOP's, regulations, training, in thr name of safety, but when you step on a plane in times of Covid, you are on your own.