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mercure1
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:30 pm

British Airways scrapping its all-business class flight between LCY and JFK and retire the A318

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 79.article
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ork-flight
mercure f-wtcc
 
bennett123
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:04 pm

Wonder what they do with the A318.
 
Ronaldo747
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:10 pm

The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:43 pm

Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.
 
Ronaldo747
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:02 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.


It should be understand in context to the former Concorde flight number, nothing else. It's clear that the A318 is toast.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:03 pm

Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...

That really died in 2003 mate....
 
TheWorm123
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:49 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.

The CS100 and 300 are A220’s now
B757-200 B757-300 A330-200 A321-200 B737-800
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:55 pm

Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


too bad, not unexpected though.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:17 pm

TheWorm123 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.

The CS100 and 300 are A220’s now


The codes remain BCS1 and BCS3 though (the ICAO codes are 221 and 223).
 
TheWorm123
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:39 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
TheWorm123 wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:

I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.

The CS100 and 300 are A220’s now


The codes remain BCS1 and BCS3 though (the ICAO codes are 221 and 223).

Interesting thanks for the correction, I thought you were using old IATA codes.
B757-200 B757-300 A330-200 A321-200 B737-800
 
MavyWavyATR
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:46 pm

mercure1 wrote:
British Airways scrapping its all-business class flight between LCY and JFK and retire the A318

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 79.article
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ork-flight


Surprised they didn’t pick up the A220-100 to replace it (would’ve eliminated the Shannon stop westbound).
 
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Devilfish
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Farewell G-EUNA

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:27 am

Alas, all things must come to an end...in this case helped in no small measure by the pandemic..... :scared: .....


https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 79.article


I wonder whether my favorite underdog would finally meet its breaker or if Titan would pick it up too? :scratchchin:


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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:58 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
British Airways scrapping its all-business class flight between LCY and JFK and retire the A318

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 79.article
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ork-flight


Surprised they didn’t pick up the A220-100 to replace it (would’ve eliminated the Shannon stop westbound).

The City and Canary Wharf are ghost towns at present. BA don't expect demand to get back to 2019 levels until 2023/24 at the earliest. The Premium heavy 747-436 fleet has been permanently withdrawn. To retain the JFK slots BA is likely to be using refurbished four-class 777-236s (with the Club World Suites) or 787-10s (also with the Club World Suites) on the LHR-JFK "shuttle". Why on earth would they be picking up A220s at this point? For the next few years LCY will be shorthaul only on the Embraer ERJ-190s - some of the 170s have left already and I suspect the remainder will be gone quite quick as well.

Only once IAG knows how sustained any recover is, AND what traffic levels at LCY are like, will any thought be given to whether to order any A220s. Even then I'd be surprised whether the LCY-JFK route would return because even if they had a bespoke seat rather then the CW Suites, I doubt that a 2+2 layout would cut it for many.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:08 am

Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming
 
by738
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:14 am

The novelty of LCY-JFK is gone. I doubt we’ll ever see it again. BA were going to scrap it covid or not.
 
Toinou
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:49 am

MavyWavyATR wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
British Airways scrapping its all-business class flight between LCY and JFK and retire the A318

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 79.article
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ork-flight


Surprised they didn’t pick up the A220-100 to replace it (would’ve eliminated the Shannon stop westbound).

Shannon was not totally useless: it allowed for pre-clearance. Even though I think it was a way to turn a negative necessity (not being able to take off from LCY with enough fuel to cross the Atlantic) into a benefit. So I guess that if possible, they would probably have avoided it.
 
Galwayman
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:52 am

Not a great loss , any purpose that it served can easily be achieved LCY-DUB-JFK/EWR/BOS/SFO/LAX - LHR at multiple times of the day and i'm sure seasoned business travellers worked that out years ago
 
Bricktop
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:05 pm

If any of the "modern" jets can be called adorable, the BA A318 was it. I will miss seeing it (formerly them).
 
SurlyBonds
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:05 pm

Galwayman wrote:
Not a great loss , any purpose that it served can easily be achieved LCY-DUB-JFK/EWR/BOS/SFO/LAX - LHR at multiple times of the day and i'm sure seasoned business travellers worked that out years ago


What "seasoned travelers" worked out years ago was that you can actually go nonstop LHR-to any number of destinations in the US and actually have enough time at cruise altitude to get some work done or sleep. Lots of people who work in the City or Canary Wharf live in West London and certainly not in Canary Wharf itself. Global Entry means that preclearance in DUB is not so important.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:20 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming


A220s with lie-flats? Because, sure, a carrier the size of B6 needs another small sub-fleet. That'll improve utilization, alright.

LCY-JFK has long been a bit 'fragile' has it not? Among the first LON-NYC services to be suspended in a downturn?
 
Arion640
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:23 pm

SurlyBonds wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Not a great loss , any purpose that it served can easily be achieved LCY-DUB-JFK/EWR/BOS/SFO/LAX - LHR at multiple times of the day and i'm sure seasoned business travellers worked that out years ago


What "seasoned travelers" worked out years ago was that you can actually go nonstop LHR-to any number of destinations in the US and actually have enough time at cruise altitude to get some work done or sleep. Lots of people who work in the City or Canary Wharf live in West London and certainly not in Canary Wharf itself. Global Entry means that preclearance in DUB is not so important.


Probably aimed more at inbound business people coming from New york. Who would stay overnight in a hotels with easy access to Canary Wharf.
 
SueD
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:24 pm

BA1\2 has been on borrowed time anyway and it was always going away when the Elizabeth line (crossrail) entered full service ; like many things COVID19 has brought the day of reckoning to the fore a little earlier.

The JFK slot may need to be preserved somehow through.

Many talk of slot sitting at Heathrow however JFK is just as bad and BA have eight historical slots and they will need to preserve them somehow.

Two of those slots were originally regional at the UK end so what to do with them when City goes away.

Would be nice to see them redeployed back where they came from again wouldn’t it !

Oh and lets be frank about this; G-EUNA has a wrapping 32 seats and rarely ever boarded more than twenty or so and loads as low as 12 or 13 weren’t unknown in the best of times !

Yes a certain blue bank paid a nice corporate charge however was it ever in the interests of shareholders personally I’d have my doubts.

They can can get on the train like the rest of us.

Or as many live in Surrey anyway drive to the very convenient T5 with its own ramp off the M25 and up the secretive ramp to the VVIP area on the fifth floor.

Needn’t ever mingle with the smelly masses !
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:02 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Wonder what they do with the A318.


Returned to where it was leased from. There was only 1 in the BA fleet. The other A318 was returned a while back and the frequency cut to 1 flight almost daily. It was suspended though late in 2019 or early 2020.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:06 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming


I'd agree, but not to LCY. The real reason BA has axed the BA1/BA2 route is that it became obsolete. BA introduced a much improved premium cabin with WIFI and other creature comforts that made the A318 cabin (it was a big improvement over the BA Club World product it was flying alongside on the LHR bound 747 and 777) a lot less necessary. The SNN stopover, which allows US pre-clearance so you step off at JFK as a domestic passenger, still adds 90 minutes to the trip and that's an issue that B6 will not be able to overcome if it tries to use LCY. The runway is too short for a TATL westbound. Global Entry and such has also made the stopover in SNN less competitive for US pre-clearance. In short, the BA1 route worked well FROM JFK but not TO JFK. BA was down to 1 A318 in the fleet, and as such, an oddball, and in the current environment, a very easy thing to cut.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:08 pm

by738 wrote:
The novelty of LCY-JFK is gone. I doubt we’ll ever see it again. BA were going to scrap it covid or not.


Agreed. It was on the chopping block long before COVID19 became a factor. The appeal and convenience of it was no longer quite there, particularly on the LCY to JFK sector.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 1:10 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming


B6 will offer a competitive product in MINT if and when it launches TATL routes but I suspect that COVID19 will result in B6 pushing off the launch by 18 months to 2 years or more unless traffic recovers quickly. There will be costs to absorb in launching a new route, staffing new airports overseas, even with outsourcing, and B6 is likely focused on business travel and less on leisure travel for LON and AMS.
 
Q
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:13 pm

Why can't British order Airbus 220 if Shannon can reach to JFK? I don't know if A220 could fly JFK-LCY?

Q
 
Danhill1905
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:20 pm

The A318 would’ve gone with or without Covid sooner than later. Been talk for a while now doubting the future of the service
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:27 pm

Q wrote:
Why can't British order Airbus 220 if Shannon can reach to JFK? I don't know if A220 could fly JFK-LCY?

Q


A220-100 can always make it eastbound, most of the time westbound non-stop with a typical all-Y seating.
 
MEA-707
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 2:45 pm

BA1/2 is still bookable from 25 october onwards. Is it confirmed it will not come back then, or maybe they'll fly it for a few months before cancelling it?
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
toltommy
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:38 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Wonder what they do with the A318.


Reading is fundamental....

"BA parent company IAG confirmed this evening it was "exiting (the) A318 fleet"
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Lootess
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:19 pm

Bye bye A318, the shrink that was living on a prayer.
 
Antarius
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:25 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't British order Airbus 220 if Shannon can reach to JFK? I don't know if A220 could fly JFK-LCY?

Q


A220-100 can always make it eastbound, most of the time westbound non-stop with a typical all-Y seating.


Westbound from LCY? Won't it have the same runway length issues?
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tphuang
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 4:49 pm

SueD wrote:
The JFK slot may need to be preserved somehow through.

Many talk of slot sitting at Heathrow however JFK is just as bad and BA have eight historical slots and they will need to preserve them somehow.

No need to over value JFK slots. Not as valuable as LHR sots, especially in current environment.

Cointrin330 wrote:
B6 will offer a competitive product in MINT if and when it launches TATL routes but I suspect that COVID19 will result in B6 pushing off the launch by 18 months to 2 years or more unless traffic recovers quickly. There will be costs to absorb in launching a new route, staffing new airports overseas, even with outsourcing, and B6 is likely focused on business travel and less on leisure travel for LON and AMS.

They are scheduled to launch next summer. LR deliveries only got reduced by 1 next year. Apparently, they've been doing a lot of ETOPS work this year. Doesn't look like they are waiting on anyone.

MIflyer12 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming


A220s with lie-flats? Because, sure, a carrier the size of B6 needs another small sub-fleet. That'll improve utilization, alright.

LCY-JFK has long been a bit 'fragile' has it not? Among the first LON-NYC services to be suspended in a downturn?


Good point, except that JetBlue hasn't seemed to be really worried about sub fleets recently. They seem to be more interested in getting higher yield.

I think they won't do this anytime soon. But in a few years, A220-100 with PIP might be able to carry something like 30J + 30Y on JFK-LCY. Business demand in NYC-UK market will be closer to pre-COVID. That could be an attractive option for JetBlue if they are looking to improve schedule on JFK-LON and can't get more LHR slots.


With where business and TATL demand likely to be this next year, pretty easy to see something like ALL-J don't have much future at BA's cost level. I read earlier in this thread that premium heavy 747s are also done. Which makes sense. You want to run the smaller aircraft on these routes.

Based on these dynamics, I think AA's A321T are going to have a hard time for the same reasons. They might need to go for a less premium config.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:07 pm

Antarius wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Q wrote:
Why can't British order Airbus 220 if Shannon can reach to JFK? I don't know if A220 could fly JFK-LCY?

Q


A220-100 can always make it eastbound, most of the time westbound non-stop with a typical all-Y seating.


Westbound from LCY? Won't it have the same runway length issues?


Yes, but it has better performance on that runway than the A318. Already demonstrated by BBD.
 
EdmFlyBoi
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:27 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Wonder what they do with the A318.


Of the 80 A318's produced, more than half have been stored or scrapped. AF will be taking theirs out of service as the A220's come on line. BA's will be stored or scrapped.
 
b747400erf
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:07 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.


EUNB is flying around in a different airline why does EUNA get scrapped?
 
SueD
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Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:40 pm

b747400erf wrote:
aemoreira1981 wrote:
Ronaldo747 wrote:
The death of "Speedbird 1/2" again ...


I see G-EUNA meeting the scrapper, with the engines being saved. The BCS1/3 has basically killed any demand for the A318, and the BCS1 is already certified into LCY, with LX using the BCS1 on ZRH-LCY. It also bears worth noting that the BCS1 has more range than the A318 and is 7 metric tons lighter.


EUNB is flying around in a different airline why does EUNA get scrapped?


Agreed EUNA has a resale value in the corporate market , indeed Titan could certainly find uses along with the sister frame !
 
SueD
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:44 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Antarius wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

A220-100 can always make it eastbound, most of the time westbound non-stop with a typical all-Y seating.


Westbound from LCY? Won't it have the same runway length issues?


Yes, but it has better performance on that runway than the A318. Already demonstrated by BBD.


Agree to differ on the JFK slots empirical value !

Those eight slot pairs are very important to BA
 
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GCT64
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:58 pm

Another factor missed above is the Elizabeth Line. When this opens it will lead to a considerable reduction in the Canary Wharf to LHR public transport travel time, reducing some of the attraction of LCY.
Of course, if WFH persists at high levels across the banking industry, then people will be travelling from their home to the airport, not to/from the office, always assuming that they are actually travelling at all.
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USAirALB
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:17 pm

Flight was on borrowed time anyways.

While I have never taken the flight personally, I have several friends that have and they always mentioned that the loads were extremely light, especially within the past couple years. I remember BA announced the service with great optimism, and I recall there was talk of also adding service from LCY to BOS and WAS.

I think the service was more useful inbound to LCY. Outbound to JFK, I would assume most travelers have Global Entry and were not connecting at T7 in JFK anyways, so they really didn't care about pre-clearance at SNN and I have heard from numerous people that the SNN stopover took too much time and it was usually the same duration if not faster to fly out the standard Heathrow-JFK services.
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deltairlines
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:50 pm

USAirALB wrote:
I think the service was more useful inbound to LCY. Outbound to JFK, I would assume most travelers have Global Entry and were not connecting at T7 in JFK anyways, so they really didn't care about pre-clearance at SNN and I have heard from numerous people that the SNN stopover took too much time and it was usually the same duration if not faster to fly out the standard Heathrow-JFK services.


Exactly this. On the inbound, you're presumably sleeping overnight and the difference between a flight leaving anywhere from JFK to London between 6 pm and 9 pm is negligible. Where it saves you time is getting to Canary Wharf. Given that the Elizabeth line will call at Canary Wharf, that eliminates any need for taking a taxi through London, or going to Paddington and then again taking a taxi through Central London or taking two Tube trains to get there.

On the westbound, it's a rather poor offering. Operationally, the stop in SNN takes as long (if not longer) than it takes to get from Canary Wharf to Heathrow; I'd guess the vast majority of people on that flight have Global Entry so clearing at JFK is not a big deal. Facilities-wise, you get no lounge at City while you can get access to Terraces (or First if you're oneWorld Emerald) lounges. The other thing that isn't mentioned on this thread: schedule.

Going LCY-(SNN)-JFK, it leaves at 1215 and arrives at JFK at 1710. That's a rather poor schedule for a business traveler; you might be able to work a couple of hours in the morning at Canary Wharf, but anything past 1030 is done. On the JFK end, the business day is done by the time you land.

At least going LHR-JFK, you have a lot more choices. There's three options that leave LHR in time to make it into Manhattan by 1500, where you could easily have 4-5 hours of meetings that same day. Likewise, there's departures at 1800, 1925 and 1945 from LHR to JFK, making it possible to have a pretty full workday in London and then fly to JFK in the evening. If I were a business traveler looking at maximizing my working time, these would be by far the best options.
 
PANAMsterdam
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Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:02 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Flight was on borrowed time anyways.

While I have never taken the flight personally, I have several friends that have and they always mentioned that the loads were extremely light, especially within the past couple years. I remember BA announced the service with great optimism, and I recall there was talk of also adding service from LCY to BOS and WAS.

I think the service was more useful inbound to LCY. Outbound to JFK, I would assume most travelers have Global Entry and were not connecting at T7 in JFK anyways, so they really didn't care about pre-clearance at SNN and I have heard from numerous people that the SNN stopover took too much time and it was usually the same duration if not faster to fly out the standard Heathrow-JFK services.



I still don't understand why LCY didn't expand its runway. The only thing holding that back is the Connaught bridge, removing that bridge could make the runway easily 400 meters/1300 feet longer. Therefore a larger plane could service the route LCY - JFK, quite possibly without the SNN stopover. The stopover is, i think, the biggest reason why people preferred a direct LHR - JFK/EWR flight over the LCY option. Saves time!
Last edited by PANAMsterdam on Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Every country has an airline. The world has Pan Am.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 5675
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:08 pm

With corporate travel not coming back at least until Summer 2021 (and likely in a reduced form) it would have been surprising that they had kept it.
 
TC957
Posts: 3780
Joined: Wed May 23, 2012 1:12 pm

Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:32 pm

Not forgetting the US ban on UK visitors in place currently.
I hope EUNA lives on as a sports team charter aircraft with Titan.
 
by738
Posts: 3090
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 8:39 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
The only thing holding that back is Connoght Bridge

I think you’ll find it’s a lot more than just adding a bit to the runway
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3579
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Updated: BA fleet parking, will retire 747 fleet

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:02 pm

MavyWavyATR wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
British Airways scrapping its all-business class flight between LCY and JFK and retire the A318

https://www.flightglobal.com/airlines/b ... 79.article
https://www.executivetraveller.com/news ... ork-flight


Surprised they didn’t pick up the A220-100 to replace it (would’ve eliminated the Shannon stop westbound).


Except the range for that might still be tight due to the short runway for T-O at LCY and flying into winter headwinds. Also no Pre Clearance means they have those nice long lines on arrival. Which was the entire reason for the flight.
 
seansasLCY
Posts: 1092
Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:25 am

Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:07 pm

PANAMsterdam wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Flight was on borrowed time anyways.

While I have never taken the flight personally, I have several friends that have and they always mentioned that the loads were extremely light, especially within the past couple years. I remember BA announced the service with great optimism, and I recall there was talk of also adding service from LCY to BOS and WAS.

I think the service was more useful inbound to LCY. Outbound to JFK, I would assume most travelers have Global Entry and were not connecting at T7 in JFK anyways, so they really didn't care about pre-clearance at SNN and I have heard from numerous people that the SNN stopover took too much time and it was usually the same duration if not faster to fly out the standard Heathrow-JFK services.



I still don't understand why LCY didn't expand its runway. The only thing holding that back is the Connaught bridge, removing that bridge could make the runway easily 400 meters/1300 feet longer. Therefore a larger plane could service the route LCY - JFK, quite possibly without the SNN stopover. The stopover is, i think, the biggest reason why people preferred a direct LHR - JFK/EWR flight over the LCY option. Saves time!


You realise people live around there right? The airport doesn’t own the bridge and I doubt my neighbours are willing to lose their transport links to allow the airport to expand. Theres also the issue of the steep approach (but I guess we can just remove Canary Wharf right?) and the limited ramp space.

Also the Elizabeth Line/Crossrail won’t affect a lot of these passengers. They don’t take the train to the airport. They use their Wheely/company driver. The Elizabeth line will still take 45 mins from Canary Wharf without factoring in wait for train or any issues (which if it’s like any other line is likely to be often).
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3579
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:20 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming


A220s with lie-flats? Because, sure, a carrier the size of B6 needs another small sub-fleet. That'll improve utilization, alright.

LCY-JFK has long been a bit 'fragile' has it not? Among the first LON-NYC services to be suspended in a downturn?



Another small sub fleet. Last I looked the A321-200 fleet at B6 was 33 core & 34 Mint layouts. I would not call half the fleet of a type being a small sub-fleet.
 
Cointrin330
Posts: 1895
Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2016 12:23 pm

Re: BA axes LCY-JFK A318 premium service

Sat Aug 01, 2020 9:21 pm

tphuang wrote:
SueD wrote:
The JFK slot may need to be preserved somehow through.

Many talk of slot sitting at Heathrow however JFK is just as bad and BA have eight historical slots and they will need to preserve them somehow.

No need to over value JFK slots. Not as valuable as LHR sots, especially in current environment.


Cointrin330 wrote:
B6 will offer a competitive product in MINT if and when it launches TATL routes but I suspect that COVID19 will result in B6 pushing off the launch by 18 months to 2 years or more unless traffic recovers quickly. There will be costs to absorb in launching a new route, staffing new airports overseas, even with outsourcing, and B6 is likely focused on business travel and less on leisure travel for LON and AMS.

They are scheduled to launch next summer. LR deliveries only got reduced by 1 next year. Apparently, they've been doing a lot of ETOPS work this year. Doesn't look like they are waiting on anyone.

MIflyer12 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
Wonder if B6 is looking at this...

Sure leaves an opening for them with the 220s coming


A220s with lie-flats? Because, sure, a carrier the size of B6 needs another small sub-fleet. That'll improve utilization, alright.

LCY-JFK has long been a bit 'fragile' has it not? Among the first LON-NYC services to be suspended in a downturn?


Good point, except that JetBlue hasn't seemed to be really worried about sub fleets recently. They seem to be more interested in getting higher yield.

I think they won't do this anytime soon. But in a few years, A220-100 with PIP might be able to carry something like 30J + 30Y on JFK-LCY. Business demand in NYC-UK market will be closer to pre-COVID. That could be an attractive option for JetBlue if they are looking to improve schedule on JFK-LON and can't get more LHR slots.


With where business and TATL demand likely to be this next year, pretty easy to see something like ALL-J don't have much future at BA's cost level. I read earlier in this thread that premium heavy 747s are also done. Which makes sense. You want to run the smaller aircraft on these routes.

Based on these dynamics, I think AA's A321T are going to have a hard time for the same reasons. They might need to go for a less premium config.


The AA A321T is what keeps AA in the JFK-LAX/SFO transcon market. The entertainment industry, media, and even global banking still want (and pay) for First Class cabins for a number of reasons and AA drives yield on these routes. It's actually a very comfortable ride and a pleasant experience though some of the A321T's have been getting a bit beaten up inside. B6 has a fraction of the corporate contracts that DL, AA, and UA have in the greater NYC area but at the moment, all that is a moot point. AA isn't reconfiguring those A321Ts any time soon.

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