Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Thu Aug 06, 2020 6:36 am

*day dreaming about Western DC-10s at SJU*
Oh well at least I got to see Capitol Air's Dc-10s with the similarly big C up front!
 
User avatar
aeromoe
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:34 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Thu Aug 06, 2020 8:16 pm

superjeff wrote:
aeromoe wrote:
zmatt1 wrote:
Worked for Western in SFO and PDX from 1968-1977. Great employer. Best years of my working career. My first flight was on a 720B SFO-LAX in 1968. Yes those were the days.


The WA 720B...sadly the one that got away from me. Saw them, photographed a couple of them, even had a flight booked on one in Dec 1978, but had to cancel it and two other associated WA flights. I did get to fly WA 727-200 SFO-DEN; 737-200 & DC-10-10 DEN-SLC-JFK-SLC-DEN; and The Londoner DC-10-30 LAS-DEN. Revenue passenger flights only. Nice flights as I recall (was a teenager at the time) but one of the JFK flights I was smack in the middle seat of five and that pretty much sucks no matter how you slice it. Thankfully I got to photograph *all* the Western fleet from late 1978 until the DL merger. Wasn't super fond of the "Bud Light" bare metal scheme but I'm glad to have known it.


My first flight on Western...HNL-LAX on a 707-347B... "

But they were a great airline.


Lucky you...but their five 707-300s were 707-347C, not B.
Since 60s: AA AC AS BA BD BF BN BR(85) BY B6 CO CZ(16) DG DL EA EI EN FI FL FT F9 HA HP ICX JI JQ J7 KE KL KS LH MC NW OC OO OZ(87) OZ(88) PA PI PN(97) PT QF QQ RM RO RV(99) RV(16) RW SK SM SQ S4 TI TS TW UA UK US UZ VS VX WA WN WS W7 XV YV YX(13) ZZ 9K
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:24 am

thanks for the correction. i don't remember the cargo door - I thought that was the only difference from the B.
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:26 am

superjeff wrote:
thanks for the correction. i don't remember the cargo door - I thought that was the only difference from the B.


That and the auxiliary exit just aft of the wings. As far as I know, the 707-320B did not have that exit.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:17 am

CrewBunk wrote:
superjeff wrote:
thanks for the correction. i don't remember the cargo door - I thought that was the only difference from the B.


That and the auxiliary exit just aft of the wings. As far as I know, the 707-320B did not have that exit.



I worked for Braniff. Our 327B's had the auxilliary exit, so at least some of them did.
 
SierraAir
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:00 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:44 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
Actually, there was one brief summer in the around 1979-1980 when WA did operate a SMF-SJC-HNL service with a 707 or 720. It didn't last long, but I did at least get to see the machine on SMF Gate 23 a couple of times. Obviously not successful.


Six times a week in the summer of 1978 with a 707. Three days were via SJC, three days via OAK.
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:21 am

superjeff wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
superjeff wrote:
thanks for the correction. i don't remember the cargo door - I thought that was the only difference from the B.


That and the auxiliary exit just aft of the wings. As far as I know, the 707-320B did not have that exit.



I worked for Braniff. Our 327B's had the auxilliary exit, so at least some of them did.


Interesting to know. Have you any pictures?

I can’t find any record of Braniff having operated the 707-320B. I see the -227s, the -327Cs, the 138Bs and of course, the 720, but no -327Bs.

The only reason I can imagine an airline opting for the extra exit, without the cargo door, would be for a very high density passenger configuration. Most airlines just opted for the 320C, like Braniff for their extensive MAC operations.
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:45 pm

CrewBunk wrote:
superjeff wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:

That and the auxiliary exit just aft of the wings. As far as I know, the 707-320B did not have that exit.



I worked for Braniff. Our 327B's had the auxilliary exit, so at least some of them did.


Interesting to know. Have you any pictures?

I can’t find any record of Braniff having operated the 707-320B. I see the -227s, the -327Cs, the 138Bs and of course, the 720, but no -327Bs.

The only reason I can imagine an airline opting for the extra exit, without the cargo door, would be for a very high density passenger configuration. Most airlines just opted for the 320C, like Braniff for their extensive MAC operations.


You're correct...all of BN's 320's were -327C's, they had no B's, same as WA and to the best of my knowledge CO as well, and for the same reason as you stated...MAC charters. Any 707-320 with that aux. exit aft of the wings was (originally at least) a C...there was no high-density-non-C version with the aux. exit.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:51 pm

cathay747 wrote:
CrewBunk wrote:
superjeff wrote:


I worked for Braniff. Our 327B's had the auxilliary exit, so at least some of them did.


Interesting to know. Have you any pictures?

I can’t find any record of Braniff having operated the 707-320B. I see the -227s, the -327Cs, the 138Bs and of course, the 720, but no -327Bs.

The only reason I can imagine an airline opting for the extra exit, without the cargo door, would be for a very high density passenger configuration. Most airlines just opted for the 320C, like Braniff for their extensive MAC operations.


You're correct...all of BN's 320's were -327C's, they had no B's, same as WA and to the best of my knowledge CO as well, and for the same reason as you stated...MAC charters. Any 707-320 with that aux. exit aft of the wings was (originally at least) a C...there was no high-density-non-C version with the aux. exit.



Makes sense to me and I stand correcrted :-)
 
zmatt1
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:35 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:45 pm

dangle wrote:
zmatt1 wrote:
Worked for Western in SFO and PDX from 1968-1977. Great employer. Best years of my working career. My first flight was on a 720B SFO-LAX in 1968. Yes those were the days.


I'd love to hear a little more about what you did for them and any specific memories you care to share.


Worked customer service at gates and ticket counter at SFO. Transferred to PDX in 1970. In addition to customer service I also worked air operations and air freight. We were unionized BRAC. Brotherhood of Railway and Airlines Clerks. During a strike I believe in 1969 I worked as a temp for United Airlines for the duration of the work stoppage. Also recall the movie “Bullit” featuring Steve McQueen was out in front of our ticket counter. We were right next to Pan Am.
 
KlimaBXsst
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:14 pm

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:21 pm

KlimaBXsst wrote:
I used to really enjoy flying across the Mexican mountain ranges such as the Sierra < Madre> Occidental and Sierra <Madre> Oriental Mountains, when flying airlines like Northwest, Pan Am Braniff, Western, and others

before their rebranding upon such southern routes.

It is interesting how rebranding can be so imperious and important to the surviving airline management or ruling structure entities.

Guess Trans Worldly Airlines sounds better to some parties too sometimes. Sounds odd to me though, but I guess I am just not very revisionistic like some present North American generations and it may just be a fitting rebooted name for some future start up uh airline carrier.


I could have used a much bigger cup of strong black caffeinated coffee as, I left off the “Madre” portion of Mexico’s important Sierra mountain ranges. My apologies to geographers and Mexico for this slight oversight.

Back to W E S T E R N now though, was the Boeing 720 the main reason Western skipped the 727-100? Truthfully it was probably a great skip, and am just wondering the decision making or timing regarding this fortunate 727-100 skip.
Aesthetically the A 340 got it right!
 
Chemist
Posts: 750
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:46 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 6:38 pm

My first flight was a Western 720B LAX-SAN-PHX-DEN rt in 1965. A long way to go to get to DEN!
My uncle worked for Western at LAX. In the late 60's or early 70's (not sure which), we got to go to LAX and get on a 720B in the maintenance area off Sepulveda near the tunnel, and sit in the cockpit and walk around the plane. Not any security in those days.
 
zmatt1
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Jul 17, 2002 3:35 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:45 pm

zmatt1 wrote:
Worked for Western in SFO and PDX from 1968-1977. Great employer. Best years of my working career. My first flight was on a 720B SFO-LAX in 1964. Yes those were the days.
 
bohica
Posts: 2440
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sat Aug 08, 2020 4:07 am

KlimaBXsst wrote:
Back to W E S T E R N now though, was the Boeing 720 the main reason Western skipped the 727-100? Truthfully it was probably a great skip, and am just wondering the decision making or timing regarding this fortunate 727-100 skip.


Western ordered the 720B in the spring of 1960 with the first deliveries in 1961. The 727 program wasn't launched until December 1960 and didn't enter service until 1964. That plus Western's Lockheed Electra's were only a couple years old and they were operating the DC-6B. When it came time to replace the propeller planes, the 737 became available and Western was one of the launch customers for the 737. The 727-100 just did not fit into Western's fleet plan.
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1291
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:34 am

zmatt1 wrote:
We were unionized BRAC. Brotherhood of Railway and Airlines Clerks.

Thank you for that. I worked for WA in SMF for 4 months in 1982-83 when on furlough from AirCal. Joined BRAC after the third, qualifying month, but never knew what it stood for. Recalled back to AirCal, so that was it.

---
So to confirm something I heard before: Were the Combis 707-3xx's rather than 720s? I flew one on a redeye SFO-SEA and back a couple of nights later with my college band in 1977 or 78. I didn't realize it was a combi or that they existed, and instead thought they really separated First and Coach by making us schlep down the jetway stairs and across the ramp to back stairs. The cargo hatch was already closed, so that wasn't a clue. Not even the solid wall in front of the cabin or showing only the rear cabin on the emergency procedures card. (I had a lot to learn about the business.)

Anyway... the tab on the window shade said " Boeing 720", so I always assumed that's what is was, and had it in my list of aircraft flown. I guess it was just a replacement part? I was bummed when a past thread in here corrected me on the combi only being a 707. Still true?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1492
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sat Aug 08, 2020 1:56 pm

Wingtips56 wrote:
zmatt1 wrote:
We were unionized BRAC. Brotherhood of Railway and Airlines Clerks.

Thank you for that. I worked for WA in SMF for 4 months in 1982-83 when on furlough from AirCal. Joined BRAC after the third, qualifying month, but never knew what it stood for. Recalled back to AirCal, so that was it.

---
So to confirm something I heard before: Were the Combis 707-3xx's rather than 720s? I flew one on a redeye SFO-SEA and back a couple of nights later with my college band in 1977 or 78. I didn't realize it was a combi or that they existed, and instead thought they really separated First and Coach by making us schlep down the jetway stairs and across the ramp to back stairs. The cargo hatch was already closed, so that wasn't a clue. Not even the solid wall in front of the cabin or showing only the rear cabin on the emergency procedures card. (I had a lot to learn about the business.)

Anyway... the tab on the window shade said " Boeing 720", so I always assumed that's what is was, and had it in my list of aircraft flown. I guess it was just a replacement part? I was bummed when a past thread in here corrected me on the combi only being a 707. Still true?


I would have to say it was, as you said you guessed, a replacement shade and somebody goofed and put one marked "720" vs. "707" which would have been incredibly easy to do given that they would otherwise be identical. Or maybe it wasn't even a goof...maybe wherever it was done had run out of 707 shades and they had to use one marked 720. In any event, there was no such animal as a 720 combi or 720C like how Boeing made the 707-320C, so it was def. a 707 you were on.

The interesting thing to me about your story is that I never knew any airline actually operated them as true "combi's", from everything I've ever known, airlines only ever operated 707-320C's as either all-pax or all-cargo...because AFAIK, Boeing defined the "C" designator as "convertible" not "combi" (unlike the later 737 & 747 combi's). That being said...there would be no point in having that aux. exit aft of the wings unless you were going to operate it as a "combi" since that's why it was there...to provide "replacement" exits since the forward 1L & 1R doors were not accessible to pax (and also the overwing exits? guess that depended on how much cargo was being carried and thus how much of the cabin floor space was used for it). So yet again, I've learned something new here on a.net!
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
Wingtips56
Posts: 1291
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:26 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:31 pm

That aux door (which I read somewhere in here a few years ago was referred to as a "hat rack" door) was at the front of our coach-only cabin, so the hard partition was just forward of that.
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines (Retired). Flight Memory: 181 airports, 92 airlines, 78 a/c types, 403 routes, 58 countries (by air), 6 continents. 1,119,414 passenger miles.

Home airport : CEC
 
User avatar
CrewBunk
Posts: 92
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:12 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:03 am

Wingtips56 wrote:
That aux door (which I read somewhere in here a few years ago was referred to as a "hat rack" door) was at the front of our coach-only cabin, so the hard partition was just forward of that.

Technically, it’s called the Jetescape Evacuation System. (Google it). It was devised by Douglas with the introduction of the DC-8-50 Jet Trader. It’s purpose was exactly as you state, to add exits so more freight/passenger combinations are available. Usually the Combi partition will be placed immediately ahead of the exit needed.

It was hinged at the bottom and when unlatched, gravity allowed it to fall open. Hand held chutes were used in the DC-8-50, then inflatable chutes from the DC-8-61 and later. I think people called them “hat rack” doors as the overhead hat racks remained with the latch just below.

I am only aware of one 72O that was equipped with a main deck cargo door. It flew for Equitoriana Airlines, so odds are it wasn’t a 720 on which you were flying. I have seen several occasions where the window blind doesn’t match the aircraft type.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:59 am

superjeff wrote:


Agree about the Bud Light livery - but I didn't like Eastern's either, and never liked the American Airlines Silverbird - they were all great when clean and polished, but . . .


Also Flying Tigers, Hawaiian, Pacific Western, Cathay Pacific Cargo, Skywest and People Express wore similar, silver liveries. I liked them myself, but I guess I just like liveries lol...
 
FX1816
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 8:02 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:35 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
superjeff wrote:


Agree about the Bud Light livery - but I didn't like Eastern's either, and never liked the American Airlines Silverbird - they were all great when clean and polished, but . . .


Also Flying Tigers, Hawaiian, Pacific Western, Cathay Pacific Cargo, Skywest and People Express wore similar, silver liveries. I liked them myself, but I guess I just like liveries lol...


When did People Express have a silver livery? Northwest did and it always looked dull, the bowling shoe was an improvement.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sun Aug 09, 2020 5:57 pm

FX1816 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
superjeff wrote:


Agree about the Bud Light livery - but I didn't like Eastern's either, and never liked the American Airlines Silverbird - they were all great when clean and polished, but . . .


Also Flying Tigers, Hawaiian, Pacific Western, Cathay Pacific Cargo, Skywest and People Express wore similar, silver liveries. I liked them myself, but I guess I just like liveries lol...


When did People Express have a silver livery? Northwest .

Well PE were silvery, I guess..and you are right about NW!
 
superjeff
Posts: 1372
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Sun Aug 09, 2020 8:03 pm

AntonioMartin wrote:
FX1816 wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
Also Flying Tigers, Hawaiian, Pacific Western, Cathay Pacific Cargo, Skywest and People Express wore similar, silver liveries. I liked them myself, but I guess I just like liveries lol...


When did People Express have a silver livery? Northwest .

Well PE were silvery, I guess..and you are right about NW!



PE was a beige background with the colored cheatline.
 
AntonioMartin
Topic Author
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:58 am

Re: Western Airlines questions

Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:57 pm

superjeff wrote:
AntonioMartin wrote:
FX1816 wrote:

When did People Express have a silver livery? Northwest .

Well PE were silvery, I guess..and you are right about NW!



PE was a beige background with the colored cheatline.

Yeah you are right!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos