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TropicalSky
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:21 pm

this is not surprising as it never went daily.
 
x1234
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:46 pm

They should have switched to MIA as QR is successful there. I know FLL was chosen due to JetBlue connections to Latin America.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:59 pm

Not surprising. I do think this goes to show how the strength of MIA and how it is the preferred airport for intercontinental traffic. Outside of DY (and it's possible that they might not even resume service), all foreign long-haul carriers (SA/BA/EK) have all discontinued their FLL service.

It's interesting as I overwhelmingly prefer FLL to MIA, and FLL appears to be relatively popular amongst US leisure travelers thanks to the plethora of WN/B6/NK/G4 flights, but I wonder if FLL is simply more popular because of the US LCCs and because it is right next to Port Everglades, and I doubt international travelers were coming by the busload to take a cruise out of FLL.
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myki
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:02 pm

Legitimate question as I don't know ... what makes this airline dropping this one route important enough for its own thread, when hundreds are being dropped at the moment? I presume there is some back story that I am not aware of yet - but please get me up to speed :)
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:06 pm

Not at all surprising. Think they cut back the frequency a while back, long before COVID19 and that's telling that it wasn't performing.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:12 pm

x1234 wrote:
They should have switched to MIA as QR is successful there. I know FLL was chosen due to JetBlue connections to Latin America.


QR is successful in MIA because it's a major OW/AA hub.

I still think EK is a better fit for AA than QR, but that's a different topic.
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airportugal310
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:37 pm

The only surprising thing here is that it took this long...
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klm617
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:42 pm

EK only flew to FLL because of their agreement with Jetblue.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Brickell305
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:58 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Not surprising. I do think this goes to show how the strength of MIA and how it is the preferred airport for intercontinental traffic. Outside of DY (and it's possible that they might not even resume service), all foreign long-haul carriers (SA/BA/EK) have all discontinued their FLL service.

It's interesting as I overwhelmingly prefer FLL to MIA, and FLL appears to be relatively popular amongst US leisure travelers thanks to the plethora of WN/B6/NK/G4 flights, but I wonder if FLL is simply more popular because of the US LCCs and because it is right next to Port Everglades, and I doubt international travelers were coming by the busload to take a cruise out of FLL.

I think the LCC/ULCC operations are a major part of why FLL is so successful domestically. I think it speaks to the fact that FLL is overwhelmingly a leisure airport while MIA, while still heavily leisure, is the preferred business airport in the So. Fla region. For domestic carriers, you have the LCCs whose primary target is leisure and can therefore concentrate solely on FLL. You have the legacies who will serve both with FLL being more heavily leisure and MIA being more business oriented though still primarily leisure. For the international carriers who have less flights into So. Fla than domestic carriers, flying into MIA more makes sense as whatever business demand exists between international city X and South Florida can have its needs met while being able to serve leisure demand. Essentially, it makes more sense for the international carriers to prioritize the demands of their business segment than that of their leisure segment. Domestic carriers with much more traffic (and ergo, flights) can segregate the demand accordingly.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:22 pm

USAirALB wrote:
Not surprising. I do think this goes to show how the strength of MIA and how it is the preferred airport for intercontinental traffic. Outside of DY (and it's possible that they might not even resume service), all foreign long-haul carriers (SA/BA/EK) have all discontinued their FLL service.

Off the top of my head, the other only international longhaul I can think of is Azul, probably because of B6 as well. Air Canada and Bahamasair also go there, but for this discussion I wouldn't count them.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:39 pm

Bricktop wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Not surprising. I do think this goes to show how the strength of MIA and how it is the preferred airport for intercontinental traffic. Outside of DY (and it's possible that they might not even resume service), all foreign long-haul carriers (SA/BA/EK) have all discontinued their FLL service.

Off the top of my head, the other only international longhaul I can think of is Azul, probably because of B6 as well. Air Canada and Bahamasair also go there, but for this discussion I wouldn't count them.


Avianca also. Azul is a unique case because they've become super-popular with the Brazilian VFR crowd based in Deerfield, Boca and Delray, so since that seems to have become Azul's base flier. FLL geographically makes more sense than MIA. Maybe the only case for an airline foreign or domestic that it makes more sense to fly to FLL than MIA geographically (The Canadian airlines are 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Maybe FLL slightly better for them but MIA not too cumbersome either).

Caribbean Airlines flies to both - the Trini & Jamaican community is more Central Broward than Dade, but not in Palm Beach. Central Broward to Miami drives are fine. It's the specific Brazilian pocket well north of FLL that Azul caters to.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:40 pm

EK also announced that Adelaide is discontinued, and that Dubai-Milan Malpensa-New York JFK will revert permanently to the B77W. As for South America, that could probably be done via JetBlue from JFK or Azul or American (next year) from there too.
 
MAH4546
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:50 pm

Never made sense to fly to FLL. When they return to South Florida it will certainly be to MIA.
a.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:55 pm

What makes FLL inferior to MIA for O&D? It's not like ONT vs. LAX.
 
Ishrion
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:57 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
American (next year) from there too.


Huh? I don’t think the AA/B6 partnership extends to Emirates?
 
MAH4546
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 4:59 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
What makes FLL inferior to MIA for O&D? It's not like ONT vs. LAX.


No, more like IAD vs BWI or SFO vs OAK.

MIA is far more centrally located and there's also simple name recognition.When Norwegian relocated from OAK/FLL to SFO/MIA they admitted passengers are simply willing to pay more to fly from the main airport and they lose out on passengers due to lack of name recognition/awareness of the secondary airport from foreign passengers.

Not to mention FLL complete lack of premium facilities.
a.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:00 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Not surprising. I do think this goes to show how the strength of MIA and how it is the preferred airport for intercontinental traffic. Outside of DY (and it's possible that they might not even resume service), all foreign long-haul carriers (SA/BA/EK) have all discontinued their FLL service.

Off the top of my head, the other only international longhaul I can think of is Azul, probably because of B6 as well. Air Canada and Bahamasair also go there, but for this discussion I wouldn't count them.


Avianca also. Azul is a unique case because they've become super-popular with the Brazilian VFR crowd based in Deerfield, Boca and Delray, so since that seems to have become Azul's base flier. FLL geographically makes more sense than MIA. Maybe the only case for an airline foreign or domestic that it makes more sense to fly to FLL than MIA geographically (The Canadian airlines are 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Maybe FLL slightly better for them but MIA not too cumbersome either).

Caribbean Airlines flies to both - the Trini & Jamaican community is more Central Broward than Dade, but not in Palm Beach. Central Broward to Miami drives are fine. It's the specific Brazilian pocket well north of FLL that Azul caters to.


CM also flew to both pre-COVID, though MIA got significantly more flights than FLL. BW has (I'm assuming temporarily as no announcement has been made) consolidated ops at MIA for the time being.

MAH4546 wrote:
Never made sense to fly to FLL. When they return to South Florida it will certainly be to MIA.


Agreed. I know some will say that's where the B6 connections are but those had to be marginal at best, especially when you look at the arrival time of the flight from DXB.
 
airbazar
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:01 pm

klm617 wrote:
EK only flew to FLL because of their agreement with Jetblue.

EK was getting nothing out of JetBlue at FLL. They went to FLL because hardly anyone else was there. DY only had a couple of routes IIRC, and BA joined later. I know this is "permanent" but there's no such thing in this industry. I can see them return in a few years. Only question is whether it will be FLL or MIA.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:17 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Off the top of my head, the other only international longhaul I can think of is Azul, probably because of B6 as well. Air Canada and Bahamasair also go there, but for this discussion I wouldn't count them.


Avianca also. Azul is a unique case because they've become super-popular with the Brazilian VFR crowd based in Deerfield, Boca and Delray, so since that seems to have become Azul's base flier. FLL geographically makes more sense than MIA. Maybe the only case for an airline foreign or domestic that it makes more sense to fly to FLL than MIA geographically (The Canadian airlines are 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Maybe FLL slightly better for them but MIA not too cumbersome either).

Caribbean Airlines flies to both - the Trini & Jamaican community is more Central Broward than Dade, but not in Palm Beach. Central Broward to Miami drives are fine. It's the specific Brazilian pocket well north of FLL that Azul caters to.


CM also flew to both pre-COVID, though MIA got significantly more flights than FLL. BW has (I'm assuming temporarily as no announcement has been made) consolidated ops at MIA for the time being.

MAH4546 wrote:
Never made sense to fly to FLL. When they return to South Florida it will certainly be to MIA.


Agreed. I know some will say that's where the B6 connections are but those had to be marginal at best, especially when you look at the arrival time of the flight from DXB.



The only scenario I see CM returning to FLL is if the connection to UA flights are that much better at FLL than MIA. I don't believe they are. Caribbean might be done with FLL for good also. Makes no sense to fly to FLL - the community they target is an easy drive from MIA (though granted they are closer to FLL). I also do not expect WN to resume FLL int'l OPS, leaving Broward County with a bunch of empty gates in Concourse A. FLL may be in even bigger trouble if B6 or NK goes belly up.

For the time being all non-Canadian int'l and most longer-haul domestic ops will consolidate at MIA. FLL's value won't rebound until Florida's leisure-driven economy does which is probably YEARS not months away. Not sure FLL will maintain regular west coast service either beyond B6 to LAX long-term. As the industry shrinks, the MIA v FLL dynamic likely returns to where it was in the 1990's, not 2010's (though at the time FLL did for many years have seasonal European flights, something that is unlikely to return anytime soon).
 
dcajet
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:25 pm

Buenos Aires EZE and Rio de Janeiro GIG have been dropped too. Santiago SCL was already announced a few weeks ago.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
SurfandSnow
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:42 pm

I was honestly shocked to see EK try service to FLL. "Fort Lauderdale" might be well known to Americans and Canadians, but probably far less so to Indians and Saudi Arabians. Sure, the airport is centrally located in the South Florida metropolitan area, but wouldn't many O&D pax - especially those at the front of the plane - want to be arriving as close to ritzy South Beach as possible (that is, at MIA)?

Sure, the B6 partnership was a consideration, but what does FLL offer that JFK does not? LIM and UIO? I highly doubt many EK pax were connecting onwards to Lima and Quito, let alone other B6 destinations like Aguadilla, Cartagena, Kingston and Port of Spain. I know that if I were connecting, I would much rather do so via JFK than FLL!

This cut isn't surprising at all. If B6 still doesn't want to serve MIA (with all their foreign partners you would think at the very least BOS/JFK-MIA would be a no-brainer, although I guess doing so now could jeopardize their partnership with AA) perhaps EK could fly there itself in the future. An airline as premium as EK does not belong at an airport as awful as FLL!
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a350lover
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:42 pm

So just GRU in South America?
Wonder if ever we see back the MEX tag on the BCN route.
 
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klm617
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:47 pm

airbazar wrote:
klm617 wrote:
EK only flew to FLL because of their agreement with Jetblue.

EK was getting nothing out of JetBlue at FLL. They went to FLL because hardly anyone else was there. DY only had a couple of routes IIRC, and BA joined later. I know this is "permanent" but there's no such thing in this industry. I can see them return in a few years. Only question is whether it will be FLL or MIA.


That's not true when B6 was flying DTW-FLL EK was getting a decent amount of connections for that flight and that's just on market I know of no to mention all the Caribbean to Southeast Asia connections.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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lightsaber
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:49 pm

dcajet wrote:
Buenos Aires EZE and Rio de Janeiro GIG have been dropped too. Santiago SCL was already announced a few weeks ago.

ULH economics must be horrible during these times.

I expect only JFK and maybe LAX to hold out. Everything else has little value in keeping as the markets aren't premium heavy enough. Although when oil prices recover, IAH.

Lightsaber
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MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:57 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I was honestly shocked to see EK try service to FLL. "Fort Lauderdale" might be well known to Americans and Canadians, but probably far less so to Indians and Saudi Arabians. Sure, the airport is centrally located in the South Florida metropolitan area, but wouldn't many O&D pax - especially those at the front of the plane - want to be arriving as close to ritzy South Beach as possible (that is, at MIA)?

Sure, the B6 partnership was a consideration, but what does FLL offer that JFK does not? LIM and UIO? I highly doubt many EK pax were connecting onwards to Lima and Quito, let alone other B6 destinations like Aguadilla, Cartagena, Kingston and Port of Spain. I know that if I were connecting, I would much rather do so via JFK than FLL!

This cut isn't surprising at all. If B6 still doesn't want to serve MIA (with all their foreign partners you would think at the very least BOS/JFK-MIA would be a no-brainer, although I guess doing so now could jeopardize their partnership with AA) perhaps EK could fly there itself in the future. An airline as premium as EK does not belong at an airport as awful as FLL!


Actually since you mention Indians, that was maybe a target of the flight - the areas closer to FLL and to the north have more South Asians than areas closer to MIA. One of the few ethnic ex-pat communities where that is the case. I know FLL-DXB-BLR or FLL-DXB-COK or FLL-DXB-MAA was flown by folks I know. They'll miss the flight, maybe the only community who notices it's gone. Many don't like going to MIA for various reasons and may opt now just to fly via EWR on UA from either FLL or PBI and then connect in India to an onward destination. The dislike of MIA is that great among some of them.
 
luckyone
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:02 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
Not surprising. I do think this goes to show how the strength of MIA and how it is the preferred airport for intercontinental traffic. Outside of DY (and it's possible that they might not even resume service), all foreign long-haul carriers (SA/BA/EK) have all discontinued their FLL service.

Off the top of my head, the other only international longhaul I can think of is Azul, probably because of B6 as well. Air Canada and Bahamasair also go there, but for this discussion I wouldn't count them.


Avianca also. Azul is a unique case because they've become super-popular with the Brazilian VFR crowd based in Deerfield, Boca and Delray, so since that seems to have become Azul's base flier. FLL geographically makes more sense than MIA. Maybe the only case for an airline foreign or domestic that it makes more sense to fly to FLL than MIA geographically (The Canadian airlines are 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Maybe FLL slightly better for them but MIA not too cumbersome either).

It's also worth mentioning that Azul and B6 share some corporate LCC heritage and cooperate with connections.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:06 pm

Also by my count this make five transatlantic network carriers who have at various times have tried FLL service and eventually dropped it. EK, BA, SA, AY, FI. Any I am missing? Obviously discount carriers like Laker, Condor, Monarch etc on the list.
 
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LH748
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:08 pm

Internationally people know Miami but not Fort Lauderdale
No matter how geographically close they are, it just can't be advertised with the same effect although I would pick FLL over MIA any day
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CanadianRedneck
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:17 pm

With the dropping of multiple western hem routes, can we expect to see aircraft reallocation to other parts of NA? Or is this just a complete removal?
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:44 pm

klm617 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
klm617 wrote:
EK only flew to FLL because of their agreement with Jetblue.

EK was getting nothing out of JetBlue at FLL. They went to FLL because hardly anyone else was there. DY only had a couple of routes IIRC, and BA joined later. I know this is "permanent" but there's no such thing in this industry. I can see them return in a few years. Only question is whether it will be FLL or MIA.


That's not true when B6 was flying DTW-FLL EK was getting a decent amount of connections for that flight and that's just on market I know of no to mention all the Caribbean to Southeast Asia connections.


Somehow I doubt that is true, the flights never connected with one another well. When B6 ran DTW-FLL at night, an overnight was required as the flight arrived after the EK flight had already departed. When B6 ran DTW-FLL in the morning, it required an 11 hour layover. Color me skeptical on this claim,
 
2travel2know2
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:46 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Avianca also. Azul is a unique case because they've become super-popular with the Brazilian VFR crowd based in Deerfield, Boca and Delray, so since that seems to have become Azul's base flier. FLL geographically makes more sense than MIA. Maybe the only case for an airline foreign or domestic that it makes more sense to fly to FLL than MIA geographically (The Canadian airlines are 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Maybe FLL slightly better for them but MIA not too cumbersome either).

Caribbean Airlines flies to both - the Trini & Jamaican community is more Central Broward than Dade, but not in Palm Beach. Central Broward to Miami drives are fine. It's the specific Brazilian pocket well north of FLL that Azul caters to.


CM also flew to both pre-COVID, though MIA got significantly more flights than FLL. BW has (I'm assuming temporarily as no announcement has been made) consolidated ops at MIA for the time being.

MAH4546 wrote:
Never made sense to fly to FLL. When they return to South Florida it will certainly be to MIA.


Agreed. I know some will say that's where the B6 connections are but those had to be marginal at best, especially when you look at the arrival time of the flight from DXB.



The only scenario I see CM returning to FLL is if the connection to UA flights are that much better at FLL than MIA. I don't believe they are.
Yes they're both CM and UA are in the same terminal.
Out of convenience of getting to/from north Dade County, FLL is very popular among PTY-MIA/FLL O/D passengers, however, when CM returns, better time its flights to an schedule who suits those passengers.
Caribbean might be done with FLL for good also. Makes no sense to fly to FLL - the community they target is an easy drive from MIA (though granted they are closer to FLL). I also do not expect WN to resume FLL int'l OPS, leaving Broward County with a bunch of empty gates in Concourse A. FLL may be in even bigger trouble if B6 or NK goes belly up.
The only WN flight I could think will remain in FLL is HAV

For the time being all non-Canadian int'l and most longer-haul domestic ops will consolidate at MIA. FLL's value won't rebound until Florida's leisure-driven economy does which is probably YEARS not months away. Not sure FLL will maintain regular west coast service either beyond B6 to LAX long-term. As the industry shrinks, the MIA v FLL dynamic likely returns to where it was in the 1990's, not 2010's (though at the time FLL did for many years have seasonal European flights, something that is unlikely to return anytime soon).
Some time will pass for FLL to get a LON flight again, about West Coast non-stop flights.. It's question of demand. UA fly to its hub, SFO, so that's probably one route which may remain.
But EK? No chance.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:54 pm

LH748 wrote:
Internationally people know Miami but not Fort Lauderdale
No matter how geographically close they are, it just can't be advertised with the same effect although I would pick FLL over MIA any day

Exactly.

I wonder what EK's target market was for this flight. As mentioned perviously, the timings weren't perfect for B6 domestic connections. B6 has some international routes ex FLL, but nowhere near MIA. Is there a large VFR South Asian/African community in South Florida that EK was hoping to capture? I know South Florida has a large concentration of South Africans (the largest or second largest in the US?) but I can't think of anything else.

The only reason I would prefer MIA over FLL is that MIA has a Centurion Lounge.
2travel2know2 wrote:
about West Coast non-stop flights.. It's question of demand. UA fly to its hub, SFO, so that's probably one route which may remain.
But EK? No chance.

AA used to have a LAX-FLL flight that existed for almost 20 years IIRC before switching to PBI before being discontinued. I doubt they would be interested to return to the market.
Last edited by USAirALB on Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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klm617
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:54 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
klm617 wrote:
airbazar wrote:
EK was getting nothing out of JetBlue at FLL. They went to FLL because hardly anyone else was there. DY only had a couple of routes IIRC, and BA joined later. I know this is "permanent" but there's no such thing in this industry. I can see them return in a few years. Only question is whether it will be FLL or MIA.


That's not true when B6 was flying DTW-FLL EK was getting a decent amount of connections for that flight and that's just on market I know of no to mention all the Caribbean to Southeast Asia connections.


Somehow I doubt that is true, the flights never connected with one another well. When B6 ran DTW-FLL at night, an overnight was required as the flight arrived after the EK flight had already departed. When B6 ran DTW-FLL in the morning, it required an 11 hour layover. Color me skeptical on this claim,


Well I got my information directly from those who loaded the bags and the told me even due to the long layover a good 50% were EK connections. I trust those who worked the flight.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:05 pm

USAirALB wrote:

I wonder what EK's target market was for this flight. As mentioned perviously, the timings weren't perfect for B6 domestic connections. B6 has some international routes ex FLL, but nowhere near MIA. Is there a large VFR South Asian/African community in South Florida that EK was hoping to capture? I know South Florida has a large concentration of South Africans (the largest or second largest in the US?) but I can't think of anything else.


So this is the one thing that drove the flight as I noted above. South Asians who DO NOT like flying in/out of MIA and who are geographically closer to FLL. The South Asian community down here is mostly in Broward and Palm Beach. As I said above, some will just opt to fly UA via EWR now, many from PBI and not FLL. This is a small group, but I am part of that group and understand their preferences.

2travel2know2 wrote:
about West Coast non-stop flights.. It's question of demand. UA fly to its hub, SFO, so that's probably one route which may remain.
But EK? No chance.

AA used to have a LAX-FLL flight that existed for almost 20 years IIRC before switching to PBI before being discontinued. I doubt they would be interested to return to the market.[/quote]

AA at one time flew LAX-FLL four times daily! As you said they moved it to PBI in 2013 and then canned it completely. AS is on the route and going double-daily this winter (assuming COVD recedes here in southern Florida) so no need to use AA metal. AA FF's can take the AS LAX-FLL flight for now, though not sure how long any of AS's new adventurous Florida flying will last. That's not really on FLL but more on the viability of AS flying so many long thin routes, and FLL-LAX has B6 Mint service so really tough to compete.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26220
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:12 pm

lightsaber wrote:
dcajet wrote:
Buenos Aires EZE and Rio de Janeiro GIG have been dropped too. Santiago SCL was already announced a few weeks ago.

ULH economics must be horrible during these times.

I expect only JFK and maybe LAX to hold out. Everything else has little value in keeping as the markets aren't premium heavy enough. Although when oil prices recover, IAH.

Lightsaber


Most of the rest of the network should be fine. Maybe Seattle and Houston take longer to relaunch. I suspect Orlando is dead too. Longer term when they return to Florida, can consolidate at MIA where it should’ve been from day one.
a.
 
USAirALB
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:16 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
AA at one time flew LAX-FLL four times daily! As you said they moved it to PBI in 2013 and then canned it completely. AS is on the route and going double-daily this winter (assuming COVD recedes here in southern Florida) so no need to use AA metal. AA FF's can take the AS LAX-FLL flight for now, though not sure how long any of AS's new adventurous Florida flying will last. That's not really on FLL but more on the viability of AS flying so many long thin routes, and FLL-LAX has B6 Mint service so really tough to compete.

I wonder how much of LAX-FLL was connecting traffic on the FLL side. AA was doing SJU/NAS/PAP/SDQ/SJC/KIN out of FLL for a while.
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MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 493
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 pm

USAirALB wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
AA at one time flew LAX-FLL four times daily! As you said they moved it to PBI in 2013 and then canned it completely. AS is on the route and going double-daily this winter (assuming COVD recedes here in southern Florida) so no need to use AA metal. AA FF's can take the AS LAX-FLL flight for now, though not sure how long any of AS's new adventurous Florida flying will last. That's not really on FLL but more on the viability of AS flying so many long thin routes, and FLL-LAX has B6 Mint service so really tough to compete.

I wonder how much of LAX-FLL was connecting traffic on the FLL side. AA was doing SJU/NAS/PAP/SDQ/SJC/KIN out of FLL for a while.



FLL-CCS also at one point. Good question, much of it was no doubt.
 
Brickell305
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:29 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:

Avianca also. Azul is a unique case because they've become super-popular with the Brazilian VFR crowd based in Deerfield, Boca and Delray, so since that seems to have become Azul's base flier. FLL geographically makes more sense than MIA. Maybe the only case for an airline foreign or domestic that it makes more sense to fly to FLL than MIA geographically (The Canadian airlines are 6 of one, half dozen of the other. Maybe FLL slightly better for them but MIA not too cumbersome either).

Caribbean Airlines flies to both - the Trini & Jamaican community is more Central Broward than Dade, but not in Palm Beach. Central Broward to Miami drives are fine. It's the specific Brazilian pocket well north of FLL that Azul caters to.


CM also flew to both pre-COVID, though MIA got significantly more flights than FLL. BW has (I'm assuming temporarily as no announcement has been made) consolidated ops at MIA for the time being.

MAH4546 wrote:
Never made sense to fly to FLL. When they return to South Florida it will certainly be to MIA.


Agreed. I know some will say that's where the B6 connections are but those had to be marginal at best, especially when you look at the arrival time of the flight from DXB.



The only scenario I see CM returning to FLL is if the connection to UA flights are that much better at FLL than MIA. I don't believe they are. Caribbean might be done with FLL for good also. Makes no sense to fly to FLL - the community they target is an easy drive from MIA (though granted they are closer to FLL). I also do not expect WN to resume FLL int'l OPS, leaving Broward County with a bunch of empty gates in Concourse A. FLL may be in even bigger trouble if B6 or NK goes belly up.

For the time being all non-Canadian int'l and most longer-haul domestic ops will consolidate at MIA. FLL's value won't rebound until Florida's leisure-driven economy does which is probably YEARS not months away. Not sure FLL will maintain regular west coast service either beyond B6 to LAX long-term. As the industry shrinks, the MIA v FLL dynamic likely returns to where it was in the 1990's, not 2010's (though at the time FLL did for many years have seasonal European flights, something that is unlikely to return anytime soon).

I don't see CM returning any time soon. I don't count out WN int'l ops. I think they did well enough to places like NAS, MBJ, PLS, and GCM that they'll be willing to re-start once demand picks back up (whenever that may be). I think all int'l ops out of FLL will be down though. I don't see B6 returning to HAV or POS out of FLL for example. A lot of the more purely tourist driven Caribbean markets will either see major reductions or be dropped too: AUA, GCM, SXM for example. I can see NK leaving FLL-KIN and their South/Central American routes receiving major cuts.
 
Brickell305
Posts: 1020
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:07 pm

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:35 pm

USAirALB wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
AA at one time flew LAX-FLL four times daily! As you said they moved it to PBI in 2013 and then canned it completely. AS is on the route and going double-daily this winter (assuming COVD recedes here in southern Florida) so no need to use AA metal. AA FF's can take the AS LAX-FLL flight for now, though not sure how long any of AS's new adventurous Florida flying will last. That's not really on FLL but more on the viability of AS flying so many long thin routes, and FLL-LAX has B6 Mint service so really tough to compete.

I wonder how much of LAX-FLL was connecting traffic on the FLL side. AA was doing SJU/NAS/PAP/SDQ/SJC/KIN out of FLL for a while.

I doubt very much of it was. PAP/SDQ/KIN/ were all about the local So. Fla VFR market. NAS was the same with more leisure thrown in. SJC obviously makes no sense to connect through FLL from LAX. And SJU occurred at a time when SJU was a hub for AA and LAX had its own nonstop to SJU. The SJU-FLL flight was to capture island traffic demand to/from FLL itself.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10164
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:31 pm

klm617 wrote:
Well I got my information directly from those who loaded the bags and the told me even due to the long layover a good 50% were EK connections. I trust those who worked the flight.

50% uh? Wow! One wonders why EK didn't fly directly to DTW then... :boggled:

LH748 wrote:
Internationally people know Miami but not Fort Lauderdale

It's kind of a non-issue really. Somehow I don't think EK was operating this flight to bring in tourists to S. Florida. I suspect the main business was cruise ship workers. Between the cruise contracts, the VFR traffic who do know where FLL is, the local O&D, and whatever other business traffic there is, that should have been more than enough to run 266 seats 4x weekly. Without the cruise industry, it's game over.
 
dcajet
Posts: 4686
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:33 pm

a350lover wrote:
So just GRU in South America?
Wonder if ever we see back the MEX tag on the BCN route.


Correct; GRU also sees a big cut in frequencies too. MEX service via BCN, IIRC, has already been confirmed by Emirates.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 13278
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:42 pm

airbazar wrote:
I suspect the main business was cruise ship workers. Between the cruise contracts, the VFR traffic who do know where FLL is, the local O&D, and whatever other business traffic there is, that should have been more than enough to run 266 seats 4x weekly. Without the cruise industry, it's game over.

:checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark: :checkmark:

Long suspected that this was their M.O. and surprised it took them this long to cancel.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
jfk777
Posts: 7355
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 8:48 pm

No surprise here, FLL never made sense for a 14 hour 777 flight to Florida. Miami and Orlando are the two airports Emirates should fly to, Orlando is already served.
 
USAirALB
Posts: 2303
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:46 am

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:04 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
USAirALB wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
AA at one time flew LAX-FLL four times daily! As you said they moved it to PBI in 2013 and then canned it completely. AS is on the route and going double-daily this winter (assuming COVD recedes here in southern Florida) so no need to use AA metal. AA FF's can take the AS LAX-FLL flight for now, though not sure how long any of AS's new adventurous Florida flying will last. That's not really on FLL but more on the viability of AS flying so many long thin routes, and FLL-LAX has B6 Mint service so really tough to compete.

I wonder how much of LAX-FLL was connecting traffic on the FLL side. AA was doing SJU/NAS/PAP/SDQ/SJC/KIN out of FLL for a while.

I doubt very much of it was. PAP/SDQ/KIN/ were all about the local So. Fla VFR market. NAS was the same with more leisure thrown in. SJC obviously makes no sense to connect through FLL from LAX. And SJU occurred at a time when SJU was a hub for AA and LAX had its own nonstop to SJU. The SJU-FLL flight was to capture island traffic demand to/from FLL itself.

Ooops! I meant SJO, not SJC but I doubt that there was any connecting traffic via FLL anyways.
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usflyer msp
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Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:16 pm

klm617 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
klm617 wrote:

That's not true when B6 was flying DTW-FLL EK was getting a decent amount of connections for that flight and that's just on market I know of no to mention all the Caribbean to Southeast Asia connections.


Somehow I doubt that is true, the flights never connected with one another well. When B6 ran DTW-FLL at night, an overnight was required as the flight arrived after the EK flight had already departed. When B6 ran DTW-FLL in the morning, it required an 11 hour layover. Color me skeptical on this claim,


Well I got my information directly from those who loaded the bags and the told me even due to the long layover a good 50% were EK connections. I trust those who worked the flight.


I don think you realize how unrealistic that sounds. Never trust airline staff rumours or hearsay.

A B6 A320 has 162 seats.
Lets say the flight had 130 passengers (80% load factor)
Lets say half of the passengers checked bags (65 pax).
If half the passengers (32) were connecting to EK despite the 11 hour layover that would mean more than 10% of EK's FLL-DXB pax were coming from Detroit. I don't think that is realistic at all; especially when there are much shorter layover and less circuitous options via BOS.

I call BS.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26220
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:21 pm

Brickell305 wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
Brickell305 wrote:

CM also flew to both pre-COVID, though MIA got significantly more flights than FLL. BW has (I'm assuming temporarily as no announcement has been made) consolidated ops at MIA for the time being.



Agreed. I know some will say that's where the B6 connections are but those had to be marginal at best, especially when you look at the arrival time of the flight from DXB.



The only scenario I see CM returning to FLL is if the connection to UA flights are that much better at FLL than MIA. I don't believe they are. Caribbean might be done with FLL for good also. Makes no sense to fly to FLL - the community they target is an easy drive from MIA (though granted they are closer to FLL). I also do not expect WN to resume FLL int'l OPS, leaving Broward County with a bunch of empty gates in Concourse A. FLL may be in even bigger trouble if B6 or NK goes belly up.

For the time being all non-Canadian int'l and most longer-haul domestic ops will consolidate at MIA. FLL's value won't rebound until Florida's leisure-driven economy does which is probably YEARS not months away. Not sure FLL will maintain regular west coast service either beyond B6 to LAX long-term. As the industry shrinks, the MIA v FLL dynamic likely returns to where it was in the 1990's, not 2010's (though at the time FLL did for many years have seasonal European flights, something that is unlikely to return anytime soon).

I don't see CM returning any time soon. I don't count out WN int'l ops. I think they did well enough to places like NAS, MBJ, PLS, and GCM that they'll be willing to re-start once demand picks back up (whenever that may be). I think all int'l ops out of FLL will be down though. I don't see B6 returning to HAV or POS out of FLL for example. A lot of the more purely tourist driven Caribbean markets will either see major reductions or be dropped too: AUA, GCM, SXM for example. I can see NK leaving FLL-KIN and their South/Central American routes receiving major cuts.



Woah woah, you are being way to pessimistic. The first stuff to recover during a downturn are always the close-in markets in the Caribbean and South America. It's long-haul that will be slower to come back.
a.
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8622
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:10 am

come to TPA ! :duck:
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 451
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:13 am

727LOVER wrote:
come to TPA ! :duck:

Don’t we wish :lol:

I just want what we already had back :tombstone:
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
crownvic
Posts: 2689
Joined: Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:16 pm

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:35 pm

looks like Orlando is gone too..I guess the two 777-300 PPE Emirates flights this week are a consolation prize for MCO spotters.
 
Ishrion
Posts: 2840
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2019 6:17 am

Re: Emirates drops FLL

Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:57 pm

crownvic wrote:
looks like Orlando is gone too..I guess the two 777-300 PPE Emirates flights this week are a consolation prize for MCO spotters.


It’s available from October 2 and onwards.

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