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Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:40 pm

An Atlas Air Boeing 747-400 on behalf of DHL, registration N408MC performing flight 5Y-8939 from Seoul (South Korea) to Shanghai Pudong (China) with 2 crew, landed on Pudong Airport's runway 17R at 02:05L (18:05Z Aug 4th) when the aircraft suffered engine pod strikes on the #1, #2 and #4 engines (outboard left, inboard left, outboard right, CF6). The aircraft rolled out without further incident.

Ref: http://avherald.com/h?article=4daee036

Not sure I've heard of striking 3 of 4 engines in one incident before.

Anyone got video/photos?
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 9:47 pm

That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber
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Antarius
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:16 pm

the left wing must have deflected significantly. Then the aircraft either rolled or bounced back impacting the #4.

Wow.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:22 pm

Considering that there was nothing remarkable about the Wx, the PF was going to have to be way behind the aircraft.

You are going to have to have a massive amount of wing deflection to get #2 with pavement rash.
I sure would like to see some pictures of what #1, the pylon and wing structure looks like.

Considering the demand on air freight right now, losing this asset will be a problem for sure.

Okie
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:49 pm

Easy to do on the 747 in gusty conditions if you aren't ready for it. From memory you only need about 7 degrees roll depending on MLG strut compression to strike an outboard pod. That said, I have never heard of an inboard strike...

Would be interesting to see a video.
 
889091
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:54 pm

Perhaps #4 hit first and the pilot over-corrected, then #1 and #2 hit the runway on the other side.

Polar Air 748F #4 strike at LAX from a few years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRScivHIH10
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 10:55 pm

lightsaber wrote:
That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber


Captain had 24 hours rest in ICN before the flight. No reason to be fatigued.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Thu Aug 06, 2020 11:00 pm

jreeves96 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber


Captain had 24 hours rest in ICN before the flight. No reason to be fatigued.


I’d look back more than 24 hours. Last 7 days, last 30 days. How many legs have the flown and timezones and oceans have they crossed recently? It might be legal rest, but you can still be fatigued for a number of reasons.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:14 am

Atlas is a really mixed bag. You’ve got really solid guys, some who have been there a long time, and you’ve also got guys with an excessive number of checkride failures who really have no business being near an airplane. It’s the unfortunate reality of their situation, most notably because of their low pay, particularly pre-covid.

They also do a lot of very fatiguing flying across many time zones. We should withhold judgement until we know some more facts, but it’s fair to say it’s not common to bang *three* engines on a 747.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:28 am

N766UA wrote:
Atlas is a really mixed bag. You’ve got really solid guys, some who have been there a long time, and you’ve also got guys with an excessive number of checkride failures who really have no business being near an airplane. It’s the unfortunate reality of their situation, most notably because of their low pay, particularly pre-covid.

They also do a lot of very fatiguing flying across many time zones. We should withhold judgement until we know some more facts, but it’s fair to say it’s not common to bang *three* engines on a 747.


Just reading the NTSB final report from the Atlas 763 fatal crash to correlate to your point. A series of events with the FO leading up to that fateful day, are something else.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:08 am

I'm amazed they were able to strike an inboard engine and still stick the rollout. Video (if there is any) and the final report will be very interesting on this one.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:56 am

lightsaber wrote:
That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber


Should have been a fresh crew. The airlines are stopping in ICN Westbound and changing crews, then flying to China and nonstop back to ANC. SkyLease is flying heavy crews so they don't have to make the stop after ANC, sometimes even bypassing ANC Westbound and going straight to China. Others are staging crews at ICN. If it's a 2-person crew, it probably boarded in ICN.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:51 am

Okie wrote:
Considering that there was nothing remarkable about the Wx, the PF was going to have to be way behind the aircraft.


Well they landed on Runway 17R and the wind was 190 at 13, gusting to 20. Meters per second. Or 190 at 29, gusting to 45, in MPH.

It was close to straight down the runway, but it wasn't completely-insignificant.

It's not fair to say that this is an indication that Atlas is continuing to have pilot competency issues, but it shouldn't be ignored, either, just like the PSM incident shouldn't have been ignored.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:52 am

This makes me think of Kai Tak, and the many 'extreme' landing videos of 747s occasionally striking pods, then over-correcting and almost striking the other side too. But hitting both pods on a wing - impressive.

Glad everyone is safe.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 10:36 am

lightsaber wrote:
That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber


It’s occurred before.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _06-09.pdf
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:23 pm

Could the inboard have contacted a runway edge light or sign sticking up? Could have drifted off centerline. Still would cause damage just not a scrape. Total speculation of course.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 12:31 pm

Bear in mind that the outboard engines do have quite a bit more ground clearance than the inboard engines. If you look at picture from a 744 from the front, it does look possible.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:08 pm

Dauntless wrote:



According to the pitch roll chart contained in the above report, there's a small corner of the pitch/roll envelope that allows the inner nacelle to strike before the outer. Around Pitch= -1.5 deg, Roll = 7-8deg.
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Ziyulu
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:06 pm

Wasn't there an NCA plane that struck at least two engines at the old HKG airport?
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:15 pm

Ziyulu wrote:
Wasn't there an NCA plane that struck at least two engines at the old HKG airport?


Only one engine.... I watched it land.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:22 pm

DH106 wrote:
Dauntless wrote:



According to the pitch roll chart contained in the above report, there's a small corner of the pitch/roll envelope that allows the inner nacelle to strike before the outer. Around Pitch= -1.5 deg, Roll = 7-8deg.

One learns something new every day.

It is still a difficult mistake to achieve.

Any links on damage estimates?

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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:29 pm

Okie wrote:
Considering that there was nothing remarkable about the Wx, the PF was going to have to be way behind the aircraft.


:o :banghead: :white: I give up
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:52 pm

jreeves96 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber


Captain had 24 hours rest in ICN before the flight. No reason to be fatigued.


Not being acutely tired and not being fatigued are two absolutely different things.

After a couple of days into the tour 24h are nowhere near enough to be fully recovered, especially if you cross timezones.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 3:55 pm

889091 wrote:
Perhaps #4 hit first and the pilot over-corrected, then #1 and #2 hit the runway on the other side.

Polar Air 748F #4 strike at LAX from a few years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRScivHIH10


Wow.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 4:00 pm

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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:14 pm

DH106 wrote:
Dauntless wrote:



According to the pitch roll chart contained in the above report, there's a small corner of the pitch/roll envelope that allows the inner nacelle to strike before the outer. Around Pitch= -1.5 deg, Roll = 7-8deg.


That is such a small corner of the chart; basically from -2.2 to -1.7 degrees pitch down and 7.3 to 7.8 degrees roll - takes a lot of skill to get there and not also have substantially damaged the nose gear.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:29 pm

alasizon wrote:
DH106 wrote:
Dauntless wrote:



According to the pitch roll chart contained in the above report, there's a small corner of the pitch/roll envelope that allows the inner nacelle to strike before the outer. Around Pitch= -1.5 deg, Roll = 7-8deg.


That is such a small corner of the chart; basically from -2.2 to -1.7 degrees pitch down and 7.3 to 7.8 degrees roll - takes a lot of skill to get there and not also have substantially damaged the nose gear.

I am pretty sure such precision wouldn't be achievable on purpose!
On a separate note - a "tabletop runway" is discussed in another thread, could something like that contribute here? Something like inboard hitting the runway surface while outboard still floating over the grass?
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:40 pm

kalvado wrote:
alasizon wrote:
DH106 wrote:


According to the pitch roll chart contained in the above report, there's a small corner of the pitch/roll envelope that allows the inner nacelle to strike before the outer. Around Pitch= -1.5 deg, Roll = 7-8deg.


That is such a small corner of the chart; basically from -2.2 to -1.7 degrees pitch down and 7.3 to 7.8 degrees roll - takes a lot of skill to get there and not also have substantially damaged the nose gear.

I am pretty sure such precision wouldn't be achievable on purpose!
On a separate note - a "tabletop runway" is discussed in another thread, could something like that contribute here? Something like inboard hitting the runway surface while outboard still floating over the grass?


PVG does not have tabletop runways.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:50 pm

alasizon wrote:
DH106 wrote:
Dauntless wrote:



According to the pitch roll chart contained in the above report, there's a small corner of the pitch/roll envelope that allows the inner nacelle to strike before the outer. Around Pitch= -1.5 deg, Roll = 7-8deg.


That is such a small corner of the chart; basically from -2.2 to -1.7 degrees pitch down and 7.3 to 7.8 degrees roll - takes a lot of skill to get there and not also have substantially damaged the nose gear.


Skill or luck? Quick browse of the YouTube isn’t short of close calls by those practicing their wheelbarrow skills.

https://youtu.be/JwgDl02z5Mc
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:51 pm

Those crosswind landings are cool, but here the wind was close to straight down the runway, albeit gusty.

Atlas just came out today with record earnings and gave lots of applause to its CEO for his (hardball) strategy in dealing with the pilots, which they emphasized was entirely his. Disgraceful. Guess they're going to have to have more bad days until anything changes there.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:19 pm

Hello all,
I remember a Polar 747-8 landing at LAX landing in gusty conditions on YT and he struck the number four engine and went around later landing safely. There are also numerous videos of 747s landing and almost striking the engines. To have three engines strike the runway was a helluva a spectacle...
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 8:57 pm

kraz911 wrote:
Hello all,
I remember a Polar 747-8 landing at LAX landing in gusty conditions on YT and he struck the number four engine and went around later landing safely. There are also numerous videos of 747s landing and almost striking the engines. To have three engines strike the runway was a helluva a spectacle...


Post #6 has the video : viewtopic.php?p=22360267#p22358909

Still not clear on how all 3 hit.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:09 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Those crosswind landings are cool, but here the wind was close to straight down the runway, albeit gusty.

Atlas just came out today with record earnings and gave lots of applause to its CEO for his (hardball) strategy in dealing with the pilots, which they emphasized was entirely his. Disgraceful. Guess they're going to have to have more bad days until anything changes there.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/08/07/atl ... w_id=44196 says

To meet the increased demand, the carrier reactivated three 747-400 converted freighters and operationalized a 777 freighter from their dry leasing business.

Seems they will be highly motivated to get this a/c back into their fleet.

I wonder what the cost of three boneyard CF6s with nacelles delivered to PVG is these days?
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 3:59 am

Revelation wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Those crosswind landings are cool, but here the wind was close to straight down the runway, albeit gusty.

Atlas just came out today with record earnings and gave lots of applause to its CEO for his (hardball) strategy in dealing with the pilots, which they emphasized was entirely his. Disgraceful. Guess they're going to have to have more bad days until anything changes there.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/08/07/atl ... w_id=44196 says

To meet the increased demand, the carrier reactivated three 747-400 converted freighters and operationalized a 777 freighter from their dry leasing business.

Seems they will be highly motivated to get this a/c back into their fleet.

I wonder what the cost of three boneyard CF6s with nacelles delivered to PVG is these days?

Sounds like a good grab from those QF 744ERs that were recently retired into the desert

I bet their certs are still current

Michael
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:10 am

eamondzhang wrote:
Revelation wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Those crosswind landings are cool, but here the wind was close to straight down the runway, albeit gusty.

Atlas just came out today with record earnings and gave lots of applause to its CEO for his (hardball) strategy in dealing with the pilots, which they emphasized was entirely his. Disgraceful. Guess they're going to have to have more bad days until anything changes there.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/08/07/atl ... w_id=44196 says

To meet the increased demand, the carrier reactivated three 747-400 converted freighters and operationalized a 777 freighter from their dry leasing business.

Seems they will be highly motivated to get this a/c back into their fleet.

I wonder what the cost of three boneyard CF6s with nacelles delivered to PVG is these days?

Sounds like a good grab from those QF 744ERs that were recently retired into the desert

I bet their certs are still current

Michael


They will have to go through GE. GE has already bought all of ex QF 744ERs with the intention of using those engines to support the fleet of CF6 powered aircraft that are still in service. With the recent boom of 767 freight conversions, green time CF6 have become scarce. Covid-19 has probably helped the situation.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:50 pm

Does a pod strike automatically necessitate an engine change? Cowlings and potentially nacelle, sure but the whole engine?
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:27 pm

889091 wrote:
Does a pod strike automatically necessitate an engine change? Cowlings and potentially nacelle, sure but the whole engine?

Depends if the damage is limited only to the pod but there could be damage to the engine or the accessories/gearbox outside the engine but in the pod. That recent IranAir A320 which crashed had "scraped " the engines on the runway but it was enough to make them both seize up and fail in flight.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:44 pm

Revelation wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Those crosswind landings are cool, but here the wind was close to straight down the runway, albeit gusty.

Atlas just came out today with record earnings and gave lots of applause to its CEO for his (hardball) strategy in dealing with the pilots, which they emphasized was entirely his. Disgraceful. Guess they're going to have to have more bad days until anything changes there.

https://airlinegeeks.com/2020/08/07/atl ... w_id=44196 says

To meet the increased demand, the carrier reactivated three 747-400 converted freighters and operationalized a 777 freighter from their dry leasing business.

Seems they will be highly motivated to get this a/c back into their fleet.

I wonder what the cost of three boneyard CF6s with nacelles delivered to PVG is these days?


I don't know what it will cost. It all depends on how much UPS charges to deliver the engines on one of their 747's. :lol:
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:58 pm

889091 wrote:
Does a pod strike automatically necessitate an engine change? Cowlings and potentially nacelle, sure but the whole engine?

It'll be interesting to see, if we ever do find out.

By design the turbine blades have tiny amounts of clearance between their tips and the engine casing.

Even in landing the engines will be spinning with a good amount of momentum, then the pod strike could be strong enough to cause enough jarring and/or deflection of the case or shaft to get contact to happen.

I'm not in the aviation industry so I don't know if on-wing inspection ports provide enough coverage to determine if any of the blades are damaged or not.

I'm not sure if the engines have diagnostics to tell the operators that such damage may have occurred.

If I'm the insurance company or if I'm a Chinese aviation or airport authority I'm going to want plenty of assurances that there is no hidden engine damage.

Same if I'm the pilot doing the first flight or the ferry flight to MRO or to home base.

To me it seems the safest thing to do would be to not fly the engines till they've been torn down.
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:27 pm

Revelation wrote:

If I'm the insurance company or if I'm a Chinese aviation or airport authority I'm going to want plenty of assurances that there is no hidden engine damage.

Same if I'm the pilot doing the first flight or the ferry flight to MRO or to home base.

To me it seems the safest thing to do would be to not fly the engines till they've been torn down.


Wuss. Fire 'em up. If they turn, get back to work. If they don't, apply speed tape then get back to work. Sheesh.
 
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:23 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Revelation wrote:

If I'm the insurance company or if I'm a Chinese aviation or airport authority I'm going to want plenty of assurances that there is no hidden engine damage.

Same if I'm the pilot doing the first flight or the ferry flight to MRO or to home base.

To me it seems the safest thing to do would be to not fly the engines till they've been torn down.


Wuss. Fire 'em up. If they turn, get back to work. If they don't, apply speed tape then get back to work. Sheesh.

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Antarius
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Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:29 pm

trex8 wrote:
889091 wrote:
Does a pod strike automatically necessitate an engine change? Cowlings and potentially nacelle, sure but the whole engine?

Depends if the damage is limited only to the pod but there could be damage to the engine or the accessories/gearbox outside the engine but in the pod. That recent IranAir A320 which crashed had "scraped " the engines on the runway but it was enough to make them both seize up and fail in flight.


Do you mean PIA?
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trex8
Posts: 5575
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 6:53 pm

Antarius wrote:
trex8 wrote:
889091 wrote:
Does a pod strike automatically necessitate an engine change? Cowlings and potentially nacelle, sure but the whole engine?

Depends if the damage is limited only to the pod but there could be damage to the engine or the accessories/gearbox outside the engine but in the pod. That recent IranAir A320 which crashed had "scraped " the engines on the runway but it was enough to make them both seize up and fail in flight.


Do you mean PIA?


My bad, you are correct PIA
 
wjcandee
Posts: 8976
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 7:07 pm

Revelation wrote:
wjcandee wrote:
Revelation wrote:

If I'm the insurance company or if I'm a Chinese aviation or airport authority I'm going to want plenty of assurances that there is no hidden engine damage.

Same if I'm the pilot doing the first flight or the ferry flight to MRO or to home base.

To me it seems the safest thing to do would be to not fly the engines till they've been torn down.


Wuss. Fire 'em up. If they turn, get back to work. If they don't, apply speed tape then get back to work. Sheesh.

Kick the tires, light the fires, let's go!


:D :D :D
 
bennett123
Posts: 9733
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:29 pm

Given that they hit the inboard engine, I am surprised that they did not hit the wing tip.
 
Armadillo1
Posts: 560
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:14 pm

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:21 pm

so no video. sad
 
MrBretz
Posts: 548
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:20 pm

Seeing the LAX video was scary enough. The plane was climbing so quickly after impact I wonder if the pilot had already decided to abort the the landing and the engines were already spooling up before the impact.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 15104
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:38 pm

Armadillo1 wrote:
so no video. sad


There will be video, but it’s China, social media as you know it is blocked, no google, no WhatsApp, no YouTube.

Only apps that the CCP can “monitor” are permitted, eg zoom, WeChat, ticktok.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
spudsmac
Posts: 297
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:36 pm

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:43 pm

jreeves96 wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
That shouldn't be possible unless the left strike deflected the wing enough to allow the #2 to strike.

I need to see a video. That is a landing rougher than I have any experience with.

I'm betting crew fatigue. Give the pilots a wizz quiz and a Covid19 test! I've read a bunch on how Covid19's reduced blood oxygen can effect decision making.

OMG...

Lightsaber


Captain had 24 hours rest in ICN before the flight. No reason to be fatigued.


Here's a typical 24 off sleep schedule using the same time zone:
0000 start duty
1400 duty off
1500 get to hotel
1600 sleep 8 hours
0000 wake up

What do you do during this time? You already slept 8 hours. You're ready to be up for 14 hours or so. Can you nap before your 1400 show? You got a decent nights rest.

1400 duty on for 14 hour day

So by the time you show up for work your body is ready to go to sleep.

Now suppose you take a 2-4 hour nap upon arrival. Sure that might work but often you end up not being able to sleep when you need to because of time zone changes.

It's not as simple 24 hours off. It's actually easier to have 12 hours most of the time because you just pass out then go to work when you wake up.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8427
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

Re: Atlas B744, PVG, Aug-5-2020: triple engine pod strike

Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:20 pm

MrBretz wrote:
Seeing the LAX video was scary enough. The plane was climbing so quickly after impact I wonder if the pilot had already decided to abort the the landing and the engines were already spooling up before the impact.



That was truly a strange video, what is most bizarre is the significant and abrupt change in flight path on short final that appears to be precipitated by an unusually large rudder input


Makes you wonder what was going on in that cockpit
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg

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