Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:20 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
global1 wrote:
There’s no such thing as a plane that is “too clean”.


That philosophy has killed this industry. If it applies to airliners it would follow that it applies to every other facet of our lives... and that’s an impossible standard. Most of us lived prior to this pandemic, and will live to the next one.

People would rather push the responsibility onto others than to do things for themselves like become healthier and clean their own surroundings.

Personally I have lost 30 pounds since mid-March (by eating better) to be healthier and more fit in case our family is exposed. We all also got MMR boosters to increase our general immunity to viral infection and sepsis (look it up), make sure to take zinc and vitamins c and d, and stay hydrated. And we make sure to have wipes available. Masks are more to make others feel better so we use them only when necessary rather than rebreathing our own exhalation waste.

Whether or not WN wipes down a table, I would still wipe it down myself. Would you trust that someone didn’t forget your row?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
CHOWahoo
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:16 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:55 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
i have dropped gym membership, and until a reliable vaccine is available I am doing alternate things. Same with flying and motels. If I should fly it would be with Alaska, Delta, or Southwest.


To each their own. I've dropped my gym membership because I want to focus on my workout, not whether I'm complying with whatever rules they've instituted. I'm not flying, not because I'm concerned a particular airline isn't using sufficient cleaning procedures, but because I have nowhere to go.
I suspect most people who are truly concerned about every last detail of cleaning procedures are highly unlikely to visit a gym or get on a plane unless they have absolutely no other choice.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4850
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:59 pm

If southwest pases out alot more wipes I think that does more than a cleaning crew tbh. People use the wipes if you give them out. The cleaning crew thing is purely for show and press releases and so united and AA can fill planes to 100%.

I know so much is unknown but it seems like the prolonged exposure thru being near an infected person is really the risk. Touching objects is much less than originally thought. Southwest is also only selling reduced capacity so I'd still rather be with them than a totally full AA or UA flight. You are just around less people by math on WN. This whole thing is a numbers game, be around less people, less risk.

The real issue if you are next to someone infected you are SOL at least less people are in your ten foot area on WN. They can clean all they want if you are next to some who is infected for four hours and you don't have antibodies (ie had it) you are catching it regardless of any cleaning they can do.
 
TYWoolman
Posts: 635
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:24 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Mon Aug 10, 2020 10:55 am

MKIAZ wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
You might want to present some evidence that "most airlines are cleaning more" since I haven't seen any reports of that.


Then you haven't been paying attention at all. The articles and the videos have been everywhere. For example, look at what DL is doing. Massive cleaning program and communication campaign to let the flying public know about what is being done to make flying safer during the pandemic.

https://news.delta.com/it-safe-travel-s ... n-yourself

Regarding WN's decision to cut back on cleaning, this will likely backfire on them. With U.S. cases still rising in many places, now is not the time to reduce cleaning, IMO.


Cleaning is all theatre though. There is a good percentage of people (I know some) that are obsessed with sanitizing surfaces, thinking that will keep them safe.

The reality is you are many many times more likely to catch it from a person (in the airports or on the plane) rather than a surface. But it's not in airlines interests to publicize that so instead we have the obsessive cleaning of surfaces to make people feel good.


But airlines are in fact acknowledging person to person spread by their mask enforcement in tandem to their cleaning of surfaces. Publicly blacklisting passengers to a no-fly list is publicly acknowledging, albeit in a more subtle way, that person to person transmission is a risk. The airlines are getting it right. The livelihood of hundred of thousands of lives are at risk (employees) if the public doesn't start flying. Wear the damn mask. Spray the hell out of the plane.
Sit down. Distance yourself. Enjoy!
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:04 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
DL747400 wrote:

Then you haven't been paying attention at all. The articles and the videos have been everywhere. For example, look at what DL is doing. Massive cleaning program and communication campaign to let the flying public know about what is being done to make flying safer during the pandemic.

https://news.delta.com/it-safe-travel-s ... n-yourself

Regarding WN's decision to cut back on cleaning, this will likely backfire on them. With U.S. cases still rising in many places, now is not the time to reduce cleaning, IMO.


Cleaning is all theatre though. There is a good percentage of people (I know some) that are obsessed with sanitizing surfaces, thinking that will keep them safe.

The reality is you are many many times more likely to catch it from a person (in the airports or on the plane) rather than a surface. But it's not in airlines interests to publicize that so instead we have the obsessive cleaning of surfaces to make people feel good.


But airlines are in fact acknowledging person to person spread by their mask enforcement in tandem to their cleaning of surfaces. Publicly blacklisting passengers to a no-fly list is publicly acknowledging, albeit in a more subtle way, that person to person transmission is a risk. The airlines are getting it right. The livelihood of hundred of thousands of lives are at risk (employees) if the public doesn't start flying. Wear the damn mask. Spray the hell out of the plane.
Sit down. Distance yourself. Enjoy!


I do not know what is the correct course of action in the long run but these seem to be prudent measures right now. Many airlines are communicating their increased cleaning and disinfecting. I just do not understand why some airlines like Southwest are actually cutting back on cleanliness. Even if they believe the cleaning is a waste of money and time, the public may feel different. The PR may be more valuable as Delta seems to believe.
 
EssentialPowr
Posts: 1732
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Tue Aug 11, 2020 3:30 pm

kiowa wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
MKIAZ wrote:
I do not know what is the correct course of action in the long run but these seem to be prudent measures right now. Many airlines are communicating their increased cleaning and disinfecting. I just do not understand why some airlines like Southwest are actually cutting back on cleanliness. Even if they believe the cleaning is a waste of money and time, the public may feel different. The PR may be more valuable as Delta seems to believe.


SWA has simply taken a more practical yet responsible route, typical of their independent thinking. The absolute hard core position that other airlines have taken puts them in the enforcement business, and recent history shows that’s a huge problem too. How about the people that are ok with it fly, and those who aren’t do something else? None of the airlines nor any other entity can guarantee a 100% sterile environment, and that includes gyms, grocery stores, convenience stores and life in general.
 
IFlyVeryLittle
Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:31 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Tue Aug 11, 2020 4:31 pm

Lets also understand there is no industry or scientific standard for "deep clearning." It is what whoever does it says it is.
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:09 pm

EssentialPowr wrote:
kiowa wrote:
TYWoolman wrote:
I do not know what is the correct course of action in the long run but these seem to be prudent measures right now. Many airlines are communicating their increased cleaning and disinfecting. I just do not understand why some airlines like Southwest are actually cutting back on cleanliness. Even if they believe the cleaning is a waste of money and time, the public may feel different. The PR may be more valuable as Delta seems to believe.


SWA has simply taken a more practical yet responsible route, typical of their independent thinking. The absolute hard core position that other airlines have taken puts them in the enforcement business, and recent history shows that’s a huge problem too. How about the people that are ok with it fly, and those who aren’t do something else? None of the airlines nor any other entity can guarantee a 100% sterile environment, and that includes gyms, grocery stores, convenience stores and life in general.


And now Southwest revises their mask policy again. So they cut back on cleaning planes and require more sanitation from their passengers. Either the corona virus is serious or it is not. How is the Southwest policy "practical yet responsible"?

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... olicy.html
 
EssentialPowr
Posts: 1732
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:54 pm

kiowa wrote:

And now Southwest revises their mask policy again. So they cut back on cleaning planes and require more sanitation from their passengers. Either the corona virus is serious or it is not. How is the Southwest policy "practical yet responsible"?

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... olicy.html


Kiowa, do you demand or are you as fascinated with the policies of other for-profit companies you engage with? You started this thread asking if cleaning was even necessary; SWA does what they do, customers are free to choose. I am amazed at the fact that internet types actually seem to think their opinions of COVID19 are supposed to be somehow recognized by an airline because they’re a wanna be? What would YOUR exact cleaning protocol be for an airliner? UV light treatment after every leg? 100% ozone saturation overnight? What wipes are being used? How often and where? Should everyone wear gloves? If Covid19 is serious to you, stay home...meanwhile, others can make their own choices as customers, and SWA can generate their own cleaning protocol. Airlines and certainly the employees don’t want to be in the rule enforcement position any more than absolutely necessary.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14628
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:29 pm

kiowa wrote:
EssentialPowr wrote:
kiowa wrote:


SWA has simply taken a more practical yet responsible route, typical of their independent thinking. The absolute hard core position that other airlines have taken puts them in the enforcement business, and recent history shows that’s a huge problem too. How about the people that are ok with it fly, and those who aren’t do something else? None of the airlines nor any other entity can guarantee a 100% sterile environment, and that includes gyms, grocery stores, convenience stores and life in general.


And now Southwest revises their mask policy again. So they cut back on cleaning planes and require more sanitation from their passengers. Either the corona virus is serious or it is not. How is the Southwest policy "practical yet responsible"?

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... olicy.html


Isn't the mask policy, as revised, an example of a practical yet responsible policy? For what it's worth, I think it is now also identical or virtually identical to Delta's mask policy.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
IAHWorldflyer
Posts: 881
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:34 am

wjcandee wrote:
IAHWorldflyer wrote:
their answer was, yes, but would you like to see my Covid test results?


That sure sounds like a pick-up line to me. I would have said that I had been tested recently, too, and that I had an amazing view of the river from my room -- how is hers?


You made me laugh, and yeah, the FA who said that was flirting a bit I think!
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9211
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:16 am

The problem with the mask thing is that while a typical surgical mask will protect you a little bit (and keep you from putting your fingers near your nose), the bigger protection it offers is a protection to others from your droplets, and that effect is significant. If everyone were wearing masks in the states that saw big spikes after NYC, the prevalence would be much, much lower. And surgical masks are not inconvenient. This "it's my right" stuff might make sense if the mask primarily protected the wearer, but it's primary benefit is to others. So it makes perfect sense that I'm not letting you on my plane unless you take it seriously. (Being on the panel that I am, I have heard many a sad tale about now-deceased folks who end up saying things like, "I wish we had been more careful." This thing sucks in a way that most people really don't imagine until they get it -- even for people with what are pretty-inaccurately-called "mild" symptoms.)
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 4418
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:20 pm

Any epidemiology studies out there on aviation. I understand planes can have pretty effective face level to floor ventilation, good turn over, and filtering. Add to that effectively used masks, and middle seats empty. Are airlines doing contact tracing. So how are FAs and frequent flyers doing?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:39 pm

TYWoolman wrote:
kiowa wrote:
EssentialPowr wrote:

SWA has simply taken a more practical yet responsible route, typical of their independent thinking. The absolute hard core position that other airlines have taken puts them in the enforcement business, and recent history shows that’s a huge problem too. How about the people that are ok with it fly, and those who aren’t do something else? None of the airlines nor any other entity can guarantee a 100% sterile environment, and that includes gyms, grocery stores, convenience stores and life in general.


And now Southwest revises their mask policy again. So they cut back on cleaning planes and require more sanitation from their passengers. Either the corona virus is serious or it is not. How is the Southwest policy "practical yet responsible"?

https://www.travelpulse.com/news/airlin ... olicy.html


kiowa, TYWoolman did not issue the quote indicated in your response (5 posts up). I know it was unintentional and easy to make mistakes when deleting when replying to others. For the record TYWoolman wrote:

But airlines are in fact acknowledging person to person spread by their mask enforcement in tandem to their cleaning of surfaces. Publicly blacklisting passengers to a no-fly list is publicly acknowledging, albeit in a more subtle way, that person to person transmission is a risk. The airlines are getting it right. The livelihood of hundred of thousands of lives are at risk (employees) if the public doesn't start flying. Wear the damn mask. Spray the hell out of the plane.
Sit down. Distance yourself. Enjoy!



I appreciate your response but I do not see any quotes that I attributed to you. You seem to have a very balanced view on the whole pandemic issue but even the quote you included in your post does not have a reference to a previous post by TYWoolman.
 
EssentialPowr
Posts: 1732
Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2000 10:30 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:29 pm

Kiowa, I’m not too concerned about who gets credit for what comment. I think creating a post for opinions about what an airline should do by someone clearly not connected to the industry in any other way than simple 3rd party fascination, with the real intent to simply fire their own opinion, is without merit.
 
User avatar
atcsundevil
Moderator
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 12:22 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:20 pm

Please just stay on topic.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 983
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:44 pm

They also cut back on food and drinks. AA on the other hand, has been providing more food during COVID.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:38 pm

ATLgaUSA wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Southwest is applying an anti microbal spray with a 30 day lffe span on every surface - thus is probably is not necessary to clean things between every flight.

Then there is the 6-7 hours / night / plane it spends on deep cleaning every aircraft.


There is a difference between antimicrobial and antiviral.



I just talked with someone at Southwest responsible for the program. I learned three things

1) The spray does kill the virus
2) The spray is actually effective for 90 days
3) The spray is being applied every 20 days.
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:29 am

If a chemical is put on an armrest and will kill a virus effectively for 90 days, what does that chemical do to your skin?
 
nws2002
Posts: 921
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:04 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Fri Aug 14, 2020 4:50 pm

kiowa wrote:
If a chemical is put on an armrest and will kill a virus effectively for 90 days, what does that chemical do to your skin?


I don't know what Southwest is using, but I know Boeing has said mPale is safe for use in the cabin. It is good for 30 days and works a bit differently from traditional chemical disinfectants.

"When mPact’s antimicrobial treatment, known as mPale, is applied to a disinfected surface and is allowed to dry, the company says, it leaves a thin film of molecules that have a unique spiked structure and a positive electrical charge. Those microscopic spikes do two things, mPact says.

First, they bond with virtually any surface, though they are much too small to be seen or felt by human touch. Second, they attract bacteria, viruses, mold and fungi, which carry an opposite negative charge, into physical contact. On contact, the spikes punch through the cell walls of the microbes.

“It punctures the membrane," Evans said. "It does not allow it to attach to a host. It does not allow it to propagate. It’s thinking about disinfection in a different way.”
 
bob75013
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:31 pm

kiowa wrote:
If a chemical is put on an armrest and will kill a virus effectively for 90 days, what does that chemical do to your skin?


Perhaps you could get the answer to that question and share it with us.
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Fri Aug 14, 2020 7:10 pm

bob75013 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
If a chemical is put on an armrest and will kill a virus effectively for 90 days, what does that chemical do to your skin?


Perhaps you could get the answer to that question and share it with us.


Sure. What is the name of the product?
 
User avatar
TWA302
Posts: 775
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 12:17 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:13 pm

kiowa wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
If a chemical is put on an armrest and will kill a virus effectively for 90 days, what does that chemical do to your skin?


Perhaps you could get the answer to that question and share it with us.


Sure. What is the name of the product?


Apparently they use mPale and mPerial according to this. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=242966620185003. Products made by SterileTEC https://steriletec.com/pages/mpale-antimicrobial. States that the product is "odorless and colorless, and dries within minutes of application. It is also non-irritating, non-sensitizing, and non-leaching."
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 4:47 pm

TWA302 wrote:
kiowa wrote:
bob75013 wrote:

Perhaps you could get the answer to that question and share it with us.


Sure. What is the name of the product?


Apparently they use mPale and mPerial according to this. https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=242966620185003. Products made by SterileTEC https://steriletec.com/pages/mpale-antimicrobial. States that the product is "odorless and colorless, and dries within minutes of application. It is also non-irritating, non-sensitizing, and non-leaching."


OK, I spent a fair amount of time trying to do research on both the products. It is a two-step process basically. mperial then epare. It sounds quite effective but I could not find anything about skin irritation. To be fair, everything I could find to read about was produced by people who sell the products. I could not find any medical research supporting either product. It also looks like it is not FDA approved against SARS-CoV-2.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:42 pm

as739x wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
You might want to present some evidence that "most airlines are cleaning more" since I haven't seen any reports of that.


Then you haven't been paying attention at all. The articles and the videos have been everywhere. For example, look at what DL is doing. Massive cleaning program and communication campaign to let the flying public know about what is being done to make flying safer during the pandemic.

https://news.delta.com/it-safe-travel-s ... n-yourself

Regarding WN's decision to cut back on cleaning, this will likely backfire on them. With U.S. cases still rising in many places, now is not the time to reduce cleaning, IMO.


Delta's marketing is just that, marketing. Why are they electrostatic cleaning between every flight? That last up to 30 days depending on how often the plane is used. It does't need to be done that often. Southwest probably knows this and isn't going to waste time, resources and money.



The main features and benefits of electrostatic spray disinfection include1:

1: Reduces the time it takes to cover and disinfect all surfaces and hard-to-reach places by 50% compared to conventional methods
2: Improves infection control and the spread of viruses such as influenza, MRSA, HIV and many others
3: Applies chemicals in a more efficient, controlled manner, eliminating the dangers of overuse
4:Prevents costly financial burdens associated with contagious healthcare infections

For desktops, floors and walls that need to be absolutely spotless, electrostatic spray cleaning is the best option. The same goes for equipment and hard to reach places; if a piece of equipment is heavily trafficked, electrostatic spray cleaning in the most comprehensive way to remove germs and dirt.

Although electrostatic spray may sound like an aggressive method for regular commercial cleaning applications, the opposite is true.

So using electrosttic cleaning between each flight is not effective in the long run. Once a day at most should suffice.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:51 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
I could see handing out a couple wipes for passengers to use on seat belts and trays. But travelers should be carrying wipes themselves. I carry a small sanitizer but seldom use it. I don't touch things on most around town trips.


Try finding wipes. Clorox noted the doubled capacity and are still unable to fill stores.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 5:55 pm

mcdu wrote:
Miamiairport wrote:
Airplanes by nature are not clean places. No airline is going to do a Deep Clean after every flight. I would tell anyone that has severe health issues to stay off an airplane and out of an airport. Even before COVID 19.



Airlines are doing electrostatic cabin surface cleaning and have increased turn times due to the reduced schedule to allow for deeper cleaning than in the past. Most airlines are doing these cleaning practices between every segment. WN is not participating in this type of activity.

The first case that is traced to a contact from a WN flight will result in litigation. WN must feel it is cheaper to do without and let it play out in court.


An internal memo that was posted online. That is not advertising and would not hold up in court well as a reason.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:01 pm

bob75013 wrote:
Southwest is applying an anti microbal spray with a 30 day lffe span on every surface - thus is probably is not necessary to clean things between every flight.

Then there is the 6-7 hours / night / plane it spends on deep cleaning every aircraft.


Note it can last up to 30 days in a labs & some areas of hospitals. In a heavily used place like an airplane seat it would last a shorter time, So between every flight is not required. Every few days should suffice. but it's easier just to make it a nightly spray than to say spray the plane every few days. A set nightly activity reduces failure in the operations channels.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:08 pm

jayunited wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Then there is the 6-7 hours / night / plane it spends on deep cleaning every aircraft.


I know WN stated they are spending 6-7 hours per night per aircraft on deep cleaning, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Only 20% of WN's fleet is still in storage which means WN has around 590 planes in service. For the sake of argument lets say 100 of those 590 frames remain on the ground as spares or for maintenance related reasons and are not used on daily basis. This means on a daily basis WN has around 490 aircraft in service, looking at WN's schedule I'd say 490 is pretty close to accurate.

So WN is spending 6-7 hours every night on every aircraft deep cleaning? I would really love to know how many cleaners are one each aircraft during the overnight hours? If it is more than one cleaner per aircraft that would require an army of workers throughout WN's network who would spend almost their entire overnight shift clean one single frame.


They re spending 6-7 hours per night cleaning Airplanes, not each Airplane for 6-7 hours.
 
wjcandee
Posts: 9211
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 12:50 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:21 pm

rbavfan wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Southwest is applying an anti microbal spray with a 30 day lffe span on every surface - thus is probably is not necessary to clean things between every flight.

Then there is the 6-7 hours / night / plane it spends on deep cleaning every aircraft.


Note it can last up to 30 days in a labs & some areas of hospitals. In a heavily used place like an airplane seat it would last a shorter time, So between every flight is not required. Every few days should suffice. but it's easier just to make it a nightly spray than to say spray the plane every few days. A set nightly activity reduces failure in the operations channels.


These 30-day antimicrobials do a great job on bacteria and mold. Not so much on viruses. I would be surprised if this stuff had even a day's residual action against Covid. If it did, hospital Covid protocols would be much different than they are.

So I got curious and looked it up: What appear to be the current EPA numbers of both products do not appear to be on EPA List N -- the Covid list. The previous formulation of one of the products (which is a product whose formula was registered by Stephan Co. and then copied by this manufacturer, which is legal but you have to get your own reg number, which they did) was a quat sanitizer, which is the least-effective type of sanitizer against Covid-19 -- it has to sit wet on the surface for 10 minutes to kill the virus, according to EPA List N. In contrast, hydrogen peroxide based sanitizers like OxiVir can kill this type of virus in 30 seconds of contact. The previous formulation's EPA number was on List N, but not what appears to be the current formulation.
Last edited by wjcandee on Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:37 pm, edited 4 times in total.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:22 pm

wjcandee wrote:
BTV290 wrote:
mcdu wrote:


Airlines are doing electrostatic cabin surface cleaning and have increased turn times due to the reduced schedule to allow for deeper cleaning than in the past. Most airlines are doing these cleaning practices between every segment. WN is not participating in this type of activity.

The first case that is traced to a contact from a WN flight will result in litigation. WN must feel it is cheaper to do without and let it play out in court.


I don't see any liability there at all. Got it from a WN flight? Did it come from the arm rest, or the person behind you? Prove it. You can't... And all it'll take is one case to make all of the other claims moot as well.


There's also no proof that Talc causes anything (because it doesn't), but that didn't stop the injury lawyers from milking that to the point that nobody's gonna produce talc anymore,and they're getting insane damage awards.

Proof in a civil suit is by preponderance of the evidence. I.e. more likely than not. Class action suit. Main plaintiffs are horribly-injured (lost a foot, damaged kidney, heart attack, etc.), do it in some rural county in Texas, and the jury award will be CHA-CHING!

The Plaintiffs' lawyers are already putting their heads together on how to handle this type of case, lining up experts, etc. That's why Trump and Congress realize there's going to have to be some protection against these suits or the economy is a goner while the plaintiffs' lawyers line their pockets and buy new Porsches.


Sorry but they proved the talk was contaminated & J & J have made changes to remove the contaminate.
 
rbavfan
Posts: 3632
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:53 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:56 pm

bob75013 wrote:
ATLgaUSA wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Southwest is applying an anti microbal spray with a 30 day lffe span on every surface - thus is probably is not necessary to clean things between every flight.

Then there is the 6-7 hours / night / plane it spends on deep cleaning every aircraft.


There is a difference between antimicrobial and antiviral.



I just talked with someone at Southwest responsible for the program. I learned three things

1) The spray does kill the virus
2) The spray is actually effective for 90 days
3) The spray is being applied every 20 days.


Thank You finally some info on how it's applied at WN.
 
bob75013
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:05 pm

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Sat Aug 15, 2020 7:31 pm

rbavfan wrote:
jayunited wrote:
bob75013 wrote:
Then there is the 6-7 hours / night / plane it spends on deep cleaning every aircraft.


I know WN stated they are spending 6-7 hours per night per aircraft on deep cleaning, but I'm not sure I'm buying it. Only 20% of WN's fleet is still in storage which means WN has around 590 planes in service. For the sake of argument lets say 100 of those 590 frames remain on the ground as spares or for maintenance related reasons and are not used on daily basis. This means on a daily basis WN has around 490 aircraft in service, looking at WN's schedule I'd say 490 is pretty close to accurate.

So WN is spending 6-7 hours every night on every aircraft deep cleaning? I would really love to know how many cleaners are one each aircraft during the overnight hours? If it is more than one cleaner per aircraft that would require an army of workers throughout WN's network who would spend almost their entire overnight shift clean one single frame.


They re spending 6-7 hours per night cleaning Airplanes, not each Airplane for 6-7 hours.



Instead of speaking in utter ignorance, perhaps you should research the subject before spouting off:

"Southwest Airlines aircraft are maintained in accordance with an established program aimed at providing a clean and inviting cabin environment. In addition to tidying each aircraft between flights, we spend more than six hours cleaning each aircraft every night. As of March 4, 2020, we have enhanced our overnight cleaning procedures."

https://www.southwest.com/Coronavirus/? ... neral-info
 
kiowa
Topic Author
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:37 am

Re: Southwest cutting back on aircraft cleaning for Covid

Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:41 pm

bob75013
Your quote is from back in March. Lots has changed. The topic of Southwest cutting back on cleaning is much more recent therefore more relevant. Southwest is doing less cleaning now than they did in March. That is what this post is about. BTW Your attack on rbavfan is a bit over the top.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747classic, amc737, andz, Aquila3, ba319-131, Baidu [Spider], berty320, Bing [Bot], deltacto, Flanker7, GloomyDe, HTCone, ikolkyo, Ishrion, JoshP1, LAX772LR, MetalNeutral, n2dru, Noshow, OzarkD9S, qfvhoqa, royroy, timboflier215, Toenga, tofen and 251 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos